The vast majority of English-speaking Moslems use the Arabic word in English sentences. I do not question their good intentions. They rightfully love this word, and they may feel it distinguishes their religion from other religions.
The persistent use by Moslems of the Arabic word to refer to God in English sentences has had a profound alienating effect on non-Moslems. To the uninitiated, it sounds like Moslems worship a deity other than God. For many, that's the end of their consideration of that religion.
The word existed in Arabic before the Prophet (PBUH) was born. His father's name was Abd Allah (worshiper of God).
The word is used until this very day by other religions in the Arab world. One of the mottoes of the Coptic (Christian) church is Allah mahabba (God is love).
Saying that the Moslems worship Allah is like saying that the French worship Dieu.
If someone was trying to find a simple way to alienate the masses away from Islam, or to demonize the Moslems, they could not have come up with a more ingenious idea.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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Maybe if moslems in the western world could start saying 'God' when they talk about him/her in conversations. I know hubby did but then of course he is a christian, what's the difference. He made a typical arabic mistake at first by saying 'the God'!:-) I bet to a lot of moslems Allah is it and God is something else haram to mention.
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OK, I've been thinking a bit about this, and my husband and his friends (both in Egypt and here) say *God* when speaking to me. Except when stuff happens like when they saw my baby for the first time (Allahu akbar!)
Perhaps it's a generational thing? As my husband and his friends are in their 40s and 50s.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: The Arabic word for God is Allah.
The vast majority of English-speaking Moslems use the Arabic word in English sentences. I do not question their good intentions. They rightfully love this word, and they may feel it distinguishes their religion from other religions.
The persistent use by Moslems of the Arabic word to refer to God in English sentences has had a profound alienating effect on non-Moslems. To the uninitiated, it sounds like Moslems worship a deity other than God. For many, that's the end of their consideration of that religion.
The word existed in Arabic before the Prophet (PBUH) was born. His father's name was Abd Allah (worshiper of God).
The word is used until this very day by other religions in the Arab world. One of the mottoes of the Coptic (Christian) church is Allah mahabba (God is love).
Saying that the Moslems worship Allah is like saying that the French worship Dieu.
If someone was trying to find a simple way to alienate the masses away from Islam, or to demonize the Moslems, they could not have come up with a more ingenious idea.
Of course everything you say Political..is so correct I mean Politically InCorrect (LOL) and 'God'..I mean 'Allah' forbid should someone disagree with you.
Alhamdulillah you started a new thread and was able to get your point across..Congrats!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: The Arabic word for God is Allah.
The vast majority of English-speaking Moslems use the Arabic word in English sentences. I do not question their good intentions. They rightfully love this word, and they may feel it distinguishes their religion from other religions.
The persistent use by Moslems of the Arabic word to refer to God in English sentences has had a profound alienating effect on non-Moslems. To the uninitiated, it sounds like Moslems worship a deity other than God. For many, that's the end of their consideration of that religion.
The word existed in Arabic before the Prophet (PBUH) was born. His father's name was Abd Allah (worshiper of God).
The word is used until this very day by other religions in the Arab world. One of the mottoes of the Coptic (Christian) church is Allah mahabba (God is love).
Saying that the Moslems worship Allah is like saying that the French worship Dieu.
If someone was trying to find a simple way to alienate the masses away from Islam, or to demonize the Moslems, they could not have come up with a more ingenious idea.
Yes...Political and here is the part posted on the other thread: Originally posted by Almaz.: "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God too. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language equivalent to the English word "God" with a capital "G".
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The idea is to replace the word 'ALLAH' everywhere you see it, by the word 'GOD' and read again the translated Qur'anic verses. You will be amazed at the new meaning you are going to get! because now you will know for sure it is all related to ONE and ONLY GOD, the one you always called 'GOD' in English, and that ALLAH is Him, but in the Arabic language.
You can replace the name 'Allah' by the name 'GOD' in any language, DIEU in French for example as political mentioned, and GOTT in German, DIOS in Spanish, DIO in Italian and so on...
As per the Egyptians or Middle Eastern people, (Arabic speaking people in general) that will say ALLAH AKBAR when they see a beautiful baby for example, the expression means : 'GOD YOU"RE THE GREATEST FOR HAVING CREATED THIS BABY'...And also it is expressed to keep the 'evil eye' away, by mentioning the name of GOD (in Arabic, because they are Arabic speaking people) as you would say in English GOD BLESS!
LA ILLAH ILA ALLAH = There is only ONE GOD B 'ESM ALLAH AL RAHMAN AL RAHIM - In the name of GOD the merciful, the compassionate Al HAMDU ILA ALLAH = Thanks GOD MA SHA' ALLAH = What GOD wants IN SHA' ALLAH = GOD willing ALLAH AKBAR = GOD is the Greatest or GOD Bless TAWAKALNA "ALA ALLAH = Let's rely on GOD or We relied on GOD
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We've had this debate before on this message board.
While the word Allah means God, it still pertains to a SPECIFIC god, with a specific means of worship.
Therefore one could conclude that Allah is not the same god as the Christian god, or even the Jewish god.
Like I said, they all have different means of worship.
Personally, I myself don't like using the word God, because it has been corrupted by religion.
God simply means the Supreme Being responsible for Creation, and as such, doesn't refer to any specific god.
It's a title more than a name in other words.
But due to the corrupting influence of religion, the word God has lost it's meaning, and when you use this word in the West, people typically assume you're referring to the Christian god.
~Alistair
-------------------- Lies fade like smoke when uncovered..but Truth, burns like fire. Posts: 1221 | Registered: Sep 2006
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But if we agree that there is only ONE GOD then Allah is GOD, the one and Only in every language!!!
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You're looking at it from a simple linguistical perspective, when you really have to look at it in a more comprehensive manner.
If Allah is God, and Allah is indistinguishable from the Christian god, or the Jewish god, then WHY does Allah demand His worshippers worship Him differently, than the Jews or the Christians?
Ofcourse, I know the answer to this question, but do you?
~Alistair
-------------------- Lies fade like smoke when uncovered..but Truth, burns like fire. Posts: 1221 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: Al HAMDU ILA ALLAH = Thanks GOD
Sorry correction: Al Hamdu does not mean thanks..it means The Praise
(wa Allahu ta'ala Alim)
Thanks in the lugatul Arabiya (the Arabic Language) is shukr
Thanks and praising has two distint meanings [/QB]
Your Translation is more specific than mine. Thanks. The exact expression that I have briefed earlier is: AL HAMD WEL SHUKR ILA ALLAH which means THanking and Praising GOD
In our Egyptian daily life, we tend to say Al Hamd Ila ALLAh and we mean PRAISE AND THANKS...as we understand what our hearts mean, knowing that GOD knows! Posts: 919 | Registered: Aug 2007
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Also, some people will say B MASHEYET ALLAH which means MASHA ALLAH, and some will say B MASHEYET EL RAHMAN... it means the same thing AL RAHMAN BEEING THE MERCIFUL....
In all cases, often Arabic words have many different meanings, and to get a sensible meaning, one needs to look at the context in which the word appears.
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Therefore one could conclude that Allah is not the same god as the Christian god, or even the Jewish god.
The same word is used in Arabic by Christians and Jews to refer to God.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Therefore one could conclude that Allah is not the same god as the Christian god, or even the Jewish god.
The same word is used in Arabic by Christians and Jews to refer to God.
You don't get it.
The word itself and it's meaning is not whats important here.
The premise of your arguement, is that Christians and Jews believe that Muslims worship a different god, which in your opinion is incorrect am I right?
However, how are Christians and Jews to believe that Muslims worship the same god that they do, when Muslims have different requirements for worship?
Yes, there are many similarities, but there are also stark differences aswell.
These differences are made even more apparent by the CONTEMPT that many Muslims have for people of other faiths, including Christians and Jews.
In Saudi Arabia afterall, one cannot build a Mosque or a Synagogue.
If Allah is the same god worshipped by Christians, Jews and Muslims alike, then why does Saudi Arabia (the birth place of Islam) prohibit Christians and Jews from worshipping there?
The only people I've ever heard claiming that Allah is the same god in the Torah and the Bible are Muslim.
Christians and Jews on the other hand, vehemently deny that Allah is in any way shape or form, connected to their religion.
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: In our Egyptian daily life, we tend to say Al Hamd Ila ALLAh and we mean PRAISE AND THANKS.
This is the correct meaning of the word hamd. Praise by itself is mad'h, and thanks by itself is shokr. There is no single word equivalent in English to the word hamd. It is a combination of the two.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Therefore one could conclude that Allah is not the same god as the Christian god, or even the Jewish god.
If you allow means of worship to define God, then you are saying people are more powerful/supreme than God. Is that what you mean? That God is a solely a human construct?
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: The word existed in Arabic before the Prophet (PBUH) was born. His father's name was Abd Allah (worshiper of God).
Yes, this is correct.
Allah says (translated): And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah." [Yunus (10):18]
And if you ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth?" They will certainly say "Allah" [Luqmaan (31):25]
Say: "Who is the Lord of the seven heaven and the Lord of the Great Thorne?" They will Say "Allah" [Al Mu'minoon (23):86-87]
This is a issue which deals with Aqeedah and Tawheed. Please reference the Scholar like Shaykhul Islaam Ibn Tayyimah (RA) or Shaykh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhaab (RA)
Shaykh Saalh Al Fawzaan (May Allah Preserve him) has a wonderful book on the "Explainations of the Four Principles" by Shaykhul Islaam Muhammad Bin Abdul Wahhaab (RA) I believe the book is also has been traslated into English.
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Christians and Jews on the other hand, vehemently deny that Allah is in any way shape or form, connected to their religion.
Not the ones who speak Arabic. Those expressly call Him Allah when the conversation is in Arabic.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: Christians and Jews on the other hand, vehemently deny that Allah is in any way shape or form, connected to their religion.
Not the ones who speak Arabic. Those expressly call Him Allah when the conversation is in Arabic.
And yet all alone they are referring to someone other than what Muslims believe who Allah is.
For some Christians their Allah is also Jesus and for some Jews who think that the Gentile (Non-Jews) are nothing more than dogs or other than that they think that Muslims are worship something or someone other than their Allah.
Even Jesus preached (according to the Bible) and told his the twelve disciples... Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying,
Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, 1 and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go ye rather unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel.(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 10:5-6
Read on on what is recorded in the New Testament:
And behold a woman of Canaan came ... and cried unto him saying, have mercy on me ... my daughter is seriously possessed with a devil.
But he answered her not a word.
And his disciples came and begged him, saying. Send her away: for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am Not Sent But Unto The Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel.
But she came and knelt before him, saying. Lord, help me.
But he answered her and said, It is Not Fair To Take The Children's Bread And Cast It To The Dogs (Gentiles i.e. Non-Jews). (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 15:22-26
But Allah says (translated)
And if you ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth?" They will certainly say "Allah" [Luqmaan (31):25]
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: And if you ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth?" They will certainly say "Allah" [Luqmaan (31):25]
Isn't the same God who Preferred Children of Israel above the nations!!
Sura[45-16] We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book, the Power of Command, and Prophet hood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the nations.
Sura[2-47] O Children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others.
Sura [44-30] We did deliver aforetime the Children of Israel from humiliating Punishment,
[31] Inflicted by Fir'aun, for he was arrogant (even) among inordinate transgressors.
[32] And We chose them aforetime above the nations, knowingly,Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: And if you ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth?" They will certainly say "Allah" [Luqmaan (31):25]
Isn't the same God who Preferred Children of Israel above the nations!!
Sura[45-16] We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book, the Power of Command, and Prophet hood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the nations.
Sura[2-47] O Children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others.
Sura [44-30] We did deliver aforetime the Children of Israel from humiliating Punishment,
[31] Inflicted by Fir'aun, for he was arrogant (even) among inordinate transgressors.
[32] And We chose them aforetime above the nations, knowingly,
Yep..Past tense!
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Yep..Past tense!
So that Time why God favoured them above the nations?! wasn't he fair and Just between all his creatures?!
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
But he answered her and said, It is Not Fair To Take The Children's Bread And Cast It To The Dogs (Gentiles i.e. Non-Jews). (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 15:22-26
He was testing her faith! 15:22-28 Then Jesus answered her, “Woman, your faith is great! Let what you want be done for you.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.
Posts: 653 | From: Great Manchester | Registered: Apr 2007
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Let me try to explain in a simple way inshaa Allah ta'ala.
Example:
A woman has 3 children. Each of them have different personalities all of the beautiful and most likely each on of the have characteristics that are different from each other. They are all her children and she loves each one of them. But there is no way humanily possible for her to love each one of them EXACTLY 33.3%, 33.3% AND 33.3% equally..I am sure there will be one child that she FAVORS more than the other(s).
It does not take away anything of the love that she has for her children she loves them ALL but just not equally, it just not possible. It is just that she loves one or FAVORS one in a different way from the others.
And of course the love can change and be affect by many different circumstances..especially due to character issue. Today you love or FAVOR a person with all of your heart and tomorrow you are divorced (just and example) how emotions change.
Inshaa Allah you get my point.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
But he answered her and said, It is Not Fair To Take The Children's Bread And Cast It To The Dogs (Gentiles i.e. Non-Jews). (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 15:22-26
He was testing her faith! 15:22-28 Then Jesus answered her, “Woman, your faith is great! Let what you want be done for you.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.
Not questionig that point.
The issue was how Jesus thought of those who were Non-Jewish. For he was known as the "King of Jews".
He considered those who were Gentiles (according to the scripture) as Dogs!...Don't just skip right over that fact.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by freshsoda: So that Time why God favoured them above the nations?! wasn't he fair and Just between all his creatures?!
Pretty much like the expression to favour someone has a connotation of giving them a favour, its Arabic counterpart faddala has the connotation of giving them faddl (literally means abundance). Thus it is not a statement about preferring someone per se, but rather a statement about giving someone more, which can be a test for how they will react. Sometimes, testing someone with abundance is harder than testing them with scarcity since with abundance, people tend to indulge and may stray away from God.
One may draw the conclusion that this is what happened with the Jews, although it is God and God only who will decide that for every individual Jew or non-Jew.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Om Bubblemouth: If you allow means of worship to define God, then you are saying people are more powerful/supreme than God. Is that what you mean? That God is a solely a human construct?
A strange question..
Now, my personal thoughts about God differ completely compared to yours Om. I don't believe that God wants or demands anyone to worship It/Him/She.
However, YOU on the other hand as a Muslim, believe that Allah requires a specific means of worship....not I.
Afterall, doesn't the Qu'ran dictate what Allah requires of them, ie praying 5 times daily while facing Mecca, fasting during Ramadan etc..?
Therefore it's you that is bringing God down to a human level., by choosing as a Muslim to worship Allah via his directives..
The kind of God that I believe in is not vain, and has no need for worship.
quote:Originally posted by Om Bubblemouth: If you allow means of worship to define God, then you are saying people are more powerful/supreme than God. Is that what you mean? That God is a solely a human construct?
A strange question..
Now, my personal thoughts about God differ completely compared to yours Om. I don't believe that God wants or demands anyone to worship It/Him/She.
However, YOU on the other hand as a Muslim, believe that Allah requires a specific means of worship....not I.
Afterall, doesn't the Qu'ran dictate what Allah requires of them, ie praying 5 times daily while facing Mecca, fasting during Ramadan etc..?
Therefore it's you that is bringing God down to a human level., by choosing as a Muslim to worship Allah via his directives..
The kind of God that I believe in is not vain, and has no need for worship.
~Alistair
Actually, you don't know what I believe.
Jews worship God in one way, Christians in another. Why didn't you make a distinction between their gods, if they are two different ones? edit: Ok, actually you did. So I'm further confused by your statement that different types of worship mean there are different gods.
Among Jews, Orthodox worship differently than Reform. Are there two different Jewish gods now? Catholics worship differently than evangelical Christians, because if you tell a Baptist he's actually eating the true blood and body of Christ, he'll about have a heart attack. Is there more than one Christian god now?
Do you see what I mean? If you allow the form of worship to dictate how many different gods there are, then you are saying God is a human construct.
In my opinion, there is only one God, and we all worship Him differently. Any fault there may be in different modes of worship lies in humans, not God himself.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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My apologies then, because I was under the impression that you were a Muslim
quote:Jews worship God in one way, Christians in another. Why didn't you make a distinction between their gods, if they are two different ones?
Because the nature of this debate centers around Islam/Allah, and not Christianity/Judaism.
Although I would say the same thing if thats what we were talking about.
Afterall, despite the notion that Jews and Christians worship the same god, I never understood why Jews and Christians don't pray together, and observe different holy days.
Actually, there has been severe friction between the followers of Christ and the Jews throughout History.
To non believers like myself, this is certainly confusing!
quote:Is there more than one Christian god now?
They may aswell be!
But to answer your question, you have to acknowledge that there are varying degrees of differences between the faiths, aswell as WITHIN the faiths.
For example, Catholics and Evanjelicals share far more similarities than differences.
Catholics and Evanjelicals both read from the same Holy Book for instance. It's just interpreted differently.
While Muslims and Christians, seemingly share more differences than similarities, and read from different Holy books.
Even so, evangelicals are an offshoot of Protestants, and we all know what the Catholics did to the Protestants in Europe right?
quote:Originally posted by Om Bubblemouth: You're not kidding. Ugh, I just spent the day trying to convince a serious bigot that Islam's God is the same as Christianity's God.
I didn't convince her, though. Something about Allah being the name of an ancient Arabian moon god. I've never heard that before.
Generically, the word "Allah" likely was a contraction of the Arabic Al-ilah, which means "the god". Both Arab Christians and pagans used the word Ilah for God. Even Arabic and Indonesian Bibles today use the word "Allah" for God. In past times, the similar Mideastern word el, meant "god" either true or false, in Ugaritic, Canaanite, and Hebrew. Prior to Mohammed, the Ka’bah, which housed 360 idols, was called Beit-Allah, or "House of Allah". Mohammed’s father, who died before he was born, was named ‘Abdullah meaning slave of Allah. Also, a tribe of Jews was called ‘Abdullah bin Salam in Bukhari vol.5 book 59 ch.13 no.362 p.241.
Specifically, among the idols worshipped at Mecca, one was just called "Allah". This particular idol was the tribal god of the Quraysh, and he had three specific daughters. Compared to four of the five pillars of Islam, the Meccans before Mohammed fasted on the same day, gave alms to their own, prayed toward Mecca, and made pilgrimages (‘Umrah) to Mecca. There were many differences too, but some marvel in the continuity of these unchanged practices in common with the pagan Quraysh worship.
As the following section will show, just as the specific Greek idol Zeus likely came from the generic word for God (theos), a similar thing happened with pre-Islamic Arabs.
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quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing: My apologies then, because I was under the impression that you were a Muslim
And I suppose all Muslims believe exactly the same thing, without variation? I don't talk about my personal beliefs on here anymore. I get vilified by all sides.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Om Bubblemouth: You're not kidding. Ugh, I just spent the day trying to convince a serious bigot that Islam's God is the same as Christianity's God.
I didn't convince her, though. Something about Allah being the name of an ancient Arabian moon god. I've never heard that before.
Generically, the word "Allah" likely was a contraction of the Arabic Al-ilah, which means "the god". Both Arab Christians and pagans used the word Ilah for God. Even Arabic and Indonesian Bibles today use the word "Allah" for God. In past times, the similar Mideastern word el, meant "god" either true or false, in Ugaritic, Canaanite, and Hebrew. Prior to Mohammed, the Ka’bah, which housed 360 idols, was called Beit-Allah, or "House of Allah". Mohammed’s father, who died before he was born, was named ‘Abdullah meaning slave of Allah. Also, a tribe of Jews was called ‘Abdullah bin Salam in Bukhari vol.5 book 59 ch.13 no.362 p.241.
Specifically, among the idols worshipped at Mecca, one was just called "Allah". This particular idol was the tribal god of the Quraysh, and he had three specific daughters. Compared to four of the five pillars of Islam, the Meccans before Mohammed fasted on the same day, gave alms to their own, prayed toward Mecca, and made pilgrimages (‘Umrah) to Mecca. There were many differences too, but some marvel in the continuity of these unchanged practices in common with the pagan Quraysh worship.
As the following section will show, just as the specific Greek idol Zeus likely came from the generic word for God (theos), a similar thing happened with pre-Islamic Arabs.
Thanks, VB. That's very interesting.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by VanillaBullshit: just as the specific Greek idol Zeus likely came from the generic word for God (theos), a similar thing happened with pre-Islamic Arabs.
This sentence highlights the source of contention in the discussion here.
According to Webster, the word "God" stands for "creator and ruler of the universe, regarded as eternal, infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing." That's what the generic English word "God" stands for. That's what the generic Arabic word "Allah" stands for. It's a linguistic issue.
Now, different religions postulate different theories about God, e.g., did He come to Earth in the form of a man, does He take the form of a particular idol, did He send a particular prophet, etc. This is a theological issue.
The point in the OP is that the use of the Arabic word in English sentences has the unintended (or intended ) consequence of confusing the linguistic and theological issues. It's not just a technicality. It has real practical impact.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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"I have not commented on the proposal by Archbishop Tiny Muskens of the Netherlands on having Christians call God "Allah", to remove tensions between Christians and Muslims. But I've been giving it some thought. The reasons that I don't think it is a good idea are as follows:
1. The Muslims' "Allah" and the Christians' "God" are, at some level, supposed to be the same being -- the God of Abraham. But we differ greatly in our understanding of that being. Muslims believe in a strictly monotheistic God -- Allah and Allah alone. There is nothing like the Christian sense of that monotheistic God having three "persons" -- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This distinction is critically important theologically, because Christians pray to God the Father through the person of God the Son -- it is only because of the mediation of the Son, the Savior, the bridge between God and Man, that the prayers are heard. To simply call God "Allah" and say he is the same as the Muslims' God is not really an option because our understandings of that God, and how he operates in our lives, are so different. A Muslim believes he may address God the Father directly because he is a creature made by that God. A Christian only believes his prayers are effective because of Christ's death on the cross.
2. Secondly, I fear I would be endorsing the Koran's view of God -- that supernatural beings spoke to Mohammed on behalf of Allah, and did so while promulgating the idea that Christ was merely a man. If the Koran was supernaturally dictated to Mohammed, and that Koran denies the divinity of Christ, I could not possibly believe that those messengers were authentic, and were speaking on behalf of the God of Abraham.
3. With all of that in mind, I have no problem with the notion that 20 million Arabic-speaking Christians already refer to God as Allah, as a matter of language. In Arabic, the word for God is Allah. But the Dutch word for God is not Allah, and to call him Allah seems to be a way of glossing over differences that are not theologically insignificant, because they go to the heart of each religion."
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: blah blah blah
Well at least we know now which side of the fence you're on. Thanks for the clarification.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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There is an interesting discussion in another thread about the deliberate use of translation to advance one's agenda. An example that relates to the current thread is the English translation of the Arabic name (or attribute) Abd Allah. The word Abd in Arabic has two different meanings. One is "worshiper" and the other is "slave." You can see the vastly different impression an English reader would get from a translation of Abd Allah into "slave of Allah" instead of "worshiper of God."
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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"Meditate to the sound of Creation" is about using sound as a tool for opening to the potential and power of our creative force. Sounds are a powerful energy. They mold the abstract world of thought and spirit into shapes. (...) sound is part of the dimension that exists between the world of spirit and the world of material. Sound has healing properties and is also used in the creation process. Words and sounds can attract positive or negative influences into our lives. Harmonious sounds are the ones that most contribute to a balanced and creative life. All recorded history of humankind describes a creator of the God word and of humankind. The sound that is in all of these names for the Creator is the sound "aaah". This sound is the sound of creation, and it is the sound of joy. "Aaah" expresses a feeling of bliss and joy. The sound of creation and joy are synonymous. Dr. Dyer suggests that when we meditate with the "aaah" sound, we should use our creative energy of thoughts to create mental pictures while using this sound emanating through chakra openings in our bodies, connecting with what we want to attract or create in our world of form. The "Om" sound relates to that of gratitude. All names of God in all cultures commonly contain the "Aaah" sound, while peace such as "Shalom," contain both sounds, the meaning of true enlightenment is peace.
Wayne Dyer: Yes. Usually it has the sound "AH" in it somewhere -- whether it's Yahweh, or God, or Krishna, or Allah or Ra or Kali or Durga. I list 30 of them in Manifest Your Destiny. In the New Testament it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So the repetition of God is a powerful mantra. You do it outwardly at first and then inwardly.
Not sure whether it's true that ALL names of God in all languages contain the same sound, it might be worth checking out. But it's surely an interesting theory. Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: Wayne Dyer: Yes. Usually it has the sound "AH" in it somewhere -- whether it's Yahweh, or God, or Krishna, or Allah or Ra or Kali or Durga. I list 30 of them in Manifest Your Destiny.
That maybe so in an American accent, but in my British accent "God" doesn't have an "ah" sound, it's a definite "o" !
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: The Arabic word for God is Allah.
The vast majority of English-speaking Moslems use the Arabic word in English sentences. I do not question their good intentions. They rightfully love this word, and they may feel it distinguishes their religion from other religions.
The persistent use by Moslems of the Arabic word to refer to God in English sentences has had a profound alienating effect on non-Moslems. To the uninitiated, it sounds like Moslems worship a deity other than God. For many, that's the end of their consideration of that religion.
The word existed in Arabic before the Prophet (PBUH) was born. His father's name was Abd Allah (worshiper of God).
The word is used until this very day by other religions in the Arab world. One of the mottoes of the Coptic (Christian) church is Allah mahabba (God is love).
Saying that the Moslems worship Allah is like saying that the French worship Dieu.
If someone was trying to find a simple way to alienate the masses away from Islam, or to demonize the Moslems, they could not have come up with a more ingenious idea.
I must agree with PI. The conistant use of the Arabic word for God in English speech has created that kind of confusion to a point where I have heard many Muslims tell me experiences where Christians ask them the question, "Why do you worship Allah and not God?!"
By the way, the Hebrew word for God as spoken in the untranslated Bible and Jewish scripture is Elah.
Posts: 26267 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: By the way, the Hebrew word for God as spoken in the untranslated Bible and Jewish scripture is Elah.
Speaking of Hebrew words for God, Adonai (which is derived from the word for Lord and mentioned extensively in the Old Testament) is routinely used in Jewish sermons given in English, but hardly ever heard in public outside of Jewish circles. I have a feeling that these guys figured out that it is not good PR to use a foreign term for God when it comes to the general public. Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by newcomer: That maybe so in an American accent, but in my British accent "God" doesn't have an "ah" sound, it's a definite "o" !
LOL, interesting point, I didn't think about this since I tend to speak with an American accent, and in German it's also spoken with an "o" that's somehow close to an "a", like the Scandinavian "å".
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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A related issue came up during the Friday prayer in a mosque in the US. They asked if the mosque should insist on calling itself masjid in English, or should it respond to the request of the town mayor and use the word "mosque" in the English sign at the entrance.
The main difference between this debate and the debate in the current thread is that the word "mosque" did not exist in the English language before the word masjid came to the West. Here is the history (abridged):
Of late, there have been numerous e-Mails in circulation, linking the English word Mosque for Masjid with the insect Mosquitoes! The striking phonetic resemblance between the two words is very likely the source of hasty conclusions. English etymology makes it very clear that the word mosque came into English before 1400 from the Italian moschea and the French mosquée. The Spanish Portuguese civilization that confronted the Arab conquest twisted the Arab words around quite a lot. Spain saw some of the most beautiful mosques being built on its soil. The place was called Masjid by the conquerors and was taken as mesquita by the locals, which is mezquita in modern Spanish. The resemblance with mosquito is accidental. Mosquito is a totally different word, a Spanish diminutive of mosca (Latin musca meaning fly, the Latin for the housefly is musca domestica).
It is interesting to note that Arabs themselves have two distinct pronunciations for the sound of Ì (j which occurs in the word Masjid). For instance, Jamal Abdul Nasser becomes Gamal Abdul Nasser in Egypt! How would the Egyptians say masjid? While the spelling remains the same, the word will be pronounced as masgid.
Posts: 374 | From: men gheir laff w dawaran | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: A related issue came up during the Friday prayer in a mosque in the US. They asked if the mosque should insist on calling itself masjid in English, or should it respond to the request of the town mayor and use the word "mosque" in the English sign at the entrance.
The main difference between this debate and the debate in the current thread is that the word "mosque" did not exist in the English language before the word masjid came to the West. Here is the history (abridged):
Of late, there have been numerous e-Mails in circulation, linking the English word Mosque for Masjid with the insect Mosquitoes! The striking phonetic resemblance between the two words is very likely the source of hasty conclusions. English etymology makes it very clear that the word mosque came into English before 1400 from the Italian moschea and the French mosquée. The Spanish Portuguese civilization that confronted the Arab conquest twisted the Arab words around quite a lot. Spain saw some of the most beautiful mosques being built on its soil. The place was called Masjid by the conquerors and was taken as mesquita by the locals, which is mezquita in modern Spanish. The resemblance with mosquito is accidental. Mosquito is a totally different word, a Spanish diminutive of mosca (Latin musca meaning fly, the Latin for the housefly is musca domestica).
It is interesting to note that Arabs themselves have two distinct pronunciations for the sound of Ì (j which occurs in the word Masjid). For instance, Jamal Abdul Nasser becomes Gamal Abdul Nasser in Egypt! How would the Egyptians say masjid? While the spelling remains the same, the word will be pronounced as masgid.
I tell my native Arabs the story or origin of the word mosque and are surprised. Many of them stop using it after knowing what it means. I'm glad you posted that information so that others will benefit from it.
Allah (God) refer to the places of worship as masaajid or masjid and I think it will be better to stick with that verse adopting terminology that is degrading and disrespecful.
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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I posted this about a month ago. A lot of the discussion about the use of the word "mosque" was started by an incorrect assertion in a book called The Idiots Guide to Islam:
Question: There is a book entitled The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Understanding Islam. It discusses within it many things, including the etymology of the word “mosque”. It says that this word is derived from the Spanish word for “mosquito”. It claims that the word was first used during the Christian invasion of Muslim Spain in the 15th century when the forces of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella boasted they would swat out Muslim prayer houses like so many mosquitoes. Is this true?
Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net
This etymology is incorrect.
The Spanish word for "mosquito" is mosquito and literally means “little fly”. This is a case where the English language borrowed the word directly from the Spanish.
The word for “fly” in Spanish is mosca, which is derived from the Latin musca. The diminutive suffix “-ito” is attached to it to form the word mosquito or “little fly”.
The Spanish term for “mosque” is mezquita, derived from the old Spanish mesquita. This word was most certainly derived from the Arabic word masjid, which many Arabs then and now pronounce as masgid.
In Spain during the era of Muslim rule – and this was before the time of King Ferdinand – Spanish speakers were using the word mosquito for the insect and the word mesquita for the Muslim place of worship. The two words are not related to one another in any way.
The word “mosque” was introduced into the English language in the late 14th or early 15th century from the French. It comes from the French word mosquée from the old French word mousquaie. The French, in turn, derived the word from the Italian word moschea from moscheta. The Italians got it either directly from the Arabic word masjid or from the old Spanish mesquita.
(http://www.islamtoday.com/fat_archives/show_detail.cfm?q_id=676&main_cat_id=20)[This is an old link and not working now]
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That's strange since I always knew the word mosquito in Spanish was Zancudo. Of course they might be the slang. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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You don't have to say Allah, you can say God, or whatever that word is in your own language.
Allah is in arabic. God is in english. Other languages have different ways of saying it, there are different words you can use - all valid 100%
I can pray in more than 1 language. All prayers are accepted. You don't have to pray in arabic. You can pray in English for example ( if you know translation ).
I also use one or several of 99 favorite names for Allah/God, one of them is "Creator". Depending on what I speak about, what I need to convey, who is involved, can they understand me etc...
Of course God is one. Some refer to God as Nature. God is All ( thus nature as well) You can't go wrong.
Don't worry!!!!! It's important what's in your soul and what's your intent, not what and how you say it to please the world.
Posts: 1039 | Registered: Jun 2007
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