posted
I'm amazed to read the reasons! I didn't realise that Egypt had so many foreigners undercutting Egyptian pay rates - maybe Sudanese?
I do agree though that if an Egyptian can do the job then they should get the job - I guess us Westerners tend to forget that there are other foreigners here.
(And PS for the record, I am NOT working here!)
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Will valid working permits be affected too????
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Do you mean already existing ones? No idea! I do know that a lot of teaching job adverts (the ones which required properly qualified British teachers as opposed to random back packers who happen to speak English but don't even have high school diplomas) have been withdrawn from the quality press!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Shanta Gdeeda: I'm amazed to read the reasons! I didn't realise that Egypt had so many foreigners undercutting Egyptian pay rates - maybe Sudanese?
I do agree though that if an Egyptian can do the job then they should get the job - I guess us Westerners tend to forget that there are other foreigners here.
(And PS for the record, I am NOT working here!)
I think you're right about Sudanese here, considering it said paid less than an Egyptian, but I'm not sure a Sudanese actually needs a work permit here. I know when I applied for mine for the restaurant (or when they applied for me as that's how it works) there had to be I think 7 or 8 Egyptians for each 'foreigner' and they had to be paying insurance, not just names and it had to be "a job an Egyptian can't do the same" which I had to show I was qualified to do and had worked in similar positions before.
Most 'westerners' though are paid more than Egyptians UNLESS the westerner has 'nationality' here then they are paid the same or slightly higher, but don't need a work permit anyway.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Aha - I just remembered something someone told me about the Chinese. Apparently there are quite a few Chinese now in Cairo undercutting Egyptians for things like cleaning and laundry (and doing an excellent job apparently). Trying to remember who told me that?
But then again, that's not likely to be 'work permit' work is it? Probably freelance!
Posts: 5593 | From: Egypt | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Egypt's labour minister to stop issuing work permits to foreigners
Saturday 12 Mar 2011
New Labour Minister El-Borai announced he will stop issuing work permits to foreigners amidst resentment of employers who take advantage of cheap foreign labourBassem Abou Alabass, The new Minister of Labour and Immigration Ahmed Hassan El-Borai declared that Egypt will stop issuing work permits for foreigners in the coming period, offering Egyptian workers a hope for jobs in this new era.
El-Borai announced yesterday that "It’s better for Egypt if locals have work in their country,” although he did add that the government may still grant work permits to highly-skilled foreigners with rare specializations.
“I will meet with businessmen to discuss reducing the proportion of foreign workers in Egypt,” he confirmed.
“This is a great decision from the new minister,” said Abd El-Rahmaan Kheir, a member of the National Labour Union to Ahram Online.
Although Abd El-Rahmaan opposed the appointment of El-Borai for the ministerial post because he is not seen as a union figure, he does appreciate El-Borai’s decision. He argues that it will save job opportunities for Egyptians, boost wages and prevent employers from taking advantage of the presence of these foreigners once they enter the market.
“Employers rely on foreigners because they escape their responsibilities to pay social insurance, they are not bound by labour laws and can sack foreigners without redress, besides the fact that foreigners get paid less than Egyptians,” he adds
The decision also comes welcome in light of certain practices by the ousted Mubarak government. The previous minister, Aisha Abd El-Hady, for example, raised the proportion of foreigners permitted to work in Egypt from 10 per cent to 13 per cent in the spinning and weaving sector.
In total, the number of foreign workers in Egypt exceeded 20 thousand in the private sector.
Whats odd is the positions the article refers to aren't positions westerners with college educations will want.
It sounds as if the positions the article refers to is in reference to refugees, at an unskilled labor level.
The unemployment level that is staggering is the university educated class. Not the menial labor class, those jobs are relatively easy to come by and it isn't foreign labor that is depressing those wages. Its the fact that the minimum wage is not being protected, nor is the government prosecuting employers for trampling basic labor laws like the minimum wage.
Right now the biggest and most active debate within bureaucracy is the condition of education and the thanawaya aama. The government must raise the requirements but doesn't want to add money into the education budget nor retrain teachers to be able to teach these new thanawaya aama requirements.
The thanawaya aama and its inability to compete at international levels is stiffling foreign business investment. And its that foreign business investment that will spur job growth in the white collar professions.
Plus the Gulf Arab nations are crying fowl right now. They claim the immense Egyptian expatriate population has triggered the protests. Kinda like how the Egyptian police, SS and NDP claimed foreigners had cited the protestors in Tahrir square.
As for white collar expatriates working in foreign companies in Egypt. The official quota for foreign workers based in Egypt is still 49%. Foreign corporations must employ 51% of its workforce with Egyptians. That quota mix is the contention point for many Egyptian youths who organized the demonstrations. Those are the jobs they are after.
Whats nice is if you are legally married, or divorced from an Egyptian and your marriage was registered in your home nation you are still entitled to a 5 year residency. And you aren't subject to a quota rate, because essentially they consider you part of the Egyptian populace and you pay taxes to Egypt and you pay income taxes to your home nation. It might work more in your favor if your Egyptian spouse is dual national.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tour guides protest demanding the abolition of the work of foreigners in Counseling الخميس, 17-03-2011 - 5:51 الخميس, 2011-03-17 13:18 | سوزان عبد الغني Thursday, 03/17/2011 - 5:51 Thursday, 2011-03-17 13:18 | Susan Abdel-Ghani منوعات Miscellaneous
. عبد النور يواجه أولى الاحتجاجات في وزارته Abdel Nour is facing the first protests in his ministry نظم المئات من المرشدين السياحيين أمام وزارة السياحة وقفة احتجاجية صامتة مطالبين بإلغاء عمل الأجانب في الإرشاد السياحي والتأمين على حياة المرشدين ورفع الحد الأدنى للأجور والمجمد من عام 2002 ووضع آلية لتنفيذه وصرف بدل بطالة للمتضررين من صندوق السياحة ورفع المعاش واقتراح إنشاء صندوق للزمالة بأخذ جنيه من كل تذكرة لدخول الأماكن السياحية. Hundreds of guides to the Ministry of Tourism and protest silent demanding the abolition of the work of foreigners in the tourist guides and insurance on the lives of workers and raising the minimum wage and frozen in 2002 and establish a mechanism for its implementation and disbursement of unemployment allowance to those affected by the fund tourism and raise the pension and the proposal to establish a fund for a fellowship to take the pounds of each ticket to enter the tourist attractions.
ورفع المرشدون لافتات كتبوا عليها: يا وزارة إنتي فين؟ And raise the workers banners bearing the phrase: "O Inti Ministry Fein? حقوق المرشد راحت فين؟ Rights leader began to Fein? أنا سفير شعوب العالم .. I am an ambassador peoples of the world .. فين حقوقي يا عالم؟ Fein, O my rights the world?
في سياق متصل، وفي غضون الأسبوع الماضي، تمت مقابلة بين وكيل الوزارة طارق عامر وبين مجموعة من المرشدين، وقد حدثت بينهم مشادة كلامية، حيث قال لهم طارق "أنتم عالة على المجتمع ولا تمثلون شيئا لوزارة السياحة لأ، الإرشاد وظيفة حرة". In a related development, within the last week, were interviewed between Deputy Minister Tarek Amer, among a group of workers, have taken place, including an altercation, where he told them Tariq "You are a burden on society and can not represent something of the Ministry of Tourism, no, counseling and job free."
وتجرى الآن مفاوضات بين نقيب المرشدين محمد غريب وبين وزير السياحة منير فخري عبد النور، حول تنفيذ مطالب المرشدين. And negotiations are underway between the captain guides Mohammed Ghareeb and Tourism Minister Munir Fakhri Abdel Nour, on the implementation of the demands of workers.
I thought tour guides, at least a handful of them were caught adding a fee on top of the entrance price to tourist attractions.
I can't understand why the Ministry of Tourism would not want to at least hear the tour guides out, and an adequate approach would be to allow/encourage a union for tourism professionals.
As much as I don't like running into tourist guides (I do go to tourist attractions but never have used a tour guide, or a travel agency) I can't stand the thought that while they are the persons who ensure tourists come back to Egypt that they aren't being supported as a valued asset to the national economy.
Besides if these tourism professionals were given (which they have worked for several times over) some security in their lives. They'd also have to be an organized force in which are subject to conditions and expectations that would result in better customer service.
There's alot of rip off artists out there, and having this profession organized would allow for accountability and a certain standard level of service.
Posts: 2280 | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Have you ever asked yourself why a company, business or privet residence employees foreign workers. Is it really the amount of money they save or is it the quality of work/production they get in return for there investment.
As an employer should I not have the right to hire someone that can get the job done to my standards at a cost that I can afford to keep my business profitable or my home and family cared for in a manner I want?
Ever been in an Egyptian government controlled agency, business or store and see hundreds of people standing around doing nothing? Is this what you want for Egyptian youths?
I employee both foreigners and local nationals to get the job done and I tell them all the same thing, if your offered a better paying job or you want to try something new I’ll support you a 100% in your endeavors. I hire people who want to work, regardless of there race, gender, religion or age and pay them a what I can afford, which is more than most other employers.
I rather hire a Filipino to take care of my house and family than an Egyptian who wants to drink tea, watch TV, talk on my phone all day and push dust under the carpets. Just like at work I rather hire a high school educated employee who is self educated in the skills I need and wants to work than a 4 year degree holder that knows nothing, because he/she parents paid for there grades. They think because they have a piece of paper that states there an Accountant I should open my safe and trust them with the financial responsibility of my company and employees future and pay them 10,000 a month to run my business in the ground. How many doctors do you know who drive taxies or accountants who work as security guards?
At least the Egyptian youth will no longer have foreign teachers corrupting their minds and since there will be no foreign workers in the country the ministry of education can take over all the foreign schools and staff them with Egyptian teachers and books. What a great idea! Save money on building schools and ensure every child is educated equally.
Affirmative action! Just what the country needs. So much for freedom of choice.
Posts: 133 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Manpower Ministry revises work permits for foreigners
Mohamed Azouz Sun, 10/04/2011 - 19:47
Minister of Manpower Ahmed Hassan al-Borai, in press statements on Sunday, said the ministry is revising the conditions for granting work permits to foreigners.
“Permits would only be given for qualifications lacked by Egyptian laborers,” he said. “And qualified foreigners will have to train their Egyptian counterparts.”
Al-Borai also said permits would be granted for a maximum of three years.
posted
A friend told me last year that there were many Bangladeshi nationals working here in the garment industry. And getting less pay than local Egyptian unskilled labour.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Possibly they earn more here than in Bangladesh.
Also, it isn't all too impossible to imagine that an Egyptian company would be making the most of saving cash either. Abusing the system can come from both sides.
And as much as it pains me I agree with Metinoot, foreign expertise to improve or retain the quality of some businesses is essential. There are many British companies here who hire British Directors and top tier Managers. Without them working in line with Western counterparts the businesses could easily fail and think how many more Egyptians could be unemployed. To be a top tier Manager in some Western industries here it is essential to have 'climbed the ladder' and to have been with the company for years... naturally, Egyptian employers can also climb the ladder but sometimes, as difficult as this may seem, it is essential to have a working knowledge of western business ethics and however qualified or capable someone is speaking English they still need to have this experience and working knowledge.
Luckily, there are so many expats living here who want their kids in International schools there will always be a need for foreign teachers too. And if family X wish to have their child to be educated by westerners at least they have the option to choose. Removing options is hardly a step forwards and heading straight back to dictatorship.
In school in the UK my French teacher was French... who better to teach French eh
Amazingly my German teacher was German and my Sign Language teacher was deaf. Can folk see how this works
When I worked in the automotive industry it wasn't uncommon for me to be taking instructions from German or Spanish Managers either.
This isn't just an Egyptian issue, it is global, and tbh, if done correctly, fairly and within a defined legislative law it is not a bad thing either.
If a welsh man is here teaching Arabic I could see the problem Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
There are a few Turkish clothing companies here as well, I think it's them that are hiring Bangladeshis, [or relocated them from Turkey, dunno] I understand where they're coming from with this but a ban on work permits seems a bit ott. Reactionary; and will not encourage outside investment will it? I don't own a business here, but if I did I might feel like someone was trying to make me feel uncomfortable. In the wake of a revolution I would expect the 'government' to be begging foreigners to come here, to work, hire, spend money, improve the economy etc. 20,000 foreign workers doesn't seem that many. Hope it isn't heading toward a bigger rejection of foreigners, after all we can easily relocate, there's lots of sunny places around.
Posts: 1399 | From: alexandria | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Exactly, and in a lot of cases we can just shut down the Egyptian branch and go relocate. Voila... hundreds of thousands of unemployed Egyptians and a drop in the economy. Hardly rocket science is it
I know a few guys in the free zone who make clothing for the UK and they could relocate no problem. 100 or so women straight out of work.
I am not saying it is all fair on Egyptians, I am just trying to hghlight it is not all unfair and the belief of not letting foreigners invest or work here is beneficial is simply moronic.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic