posted
I first saw these haplogroup figures a few years back on a popular Kenyan forum. ‘Japanese’ ‘AF346989′ ‘D’ ‘Japanese2′ ‘AF346990′ ‘D’ ‘Kikuyu’ ‘AF346992′ ‘L1′ I tried to get a link from the poster to no avail. In my free time I've googled unsuccessfully for confirmation. I'll be the first to confess talk of haplogroups,clades,autoclades and alleles is all Sanskrit to me but it suggests a genetic relationship. On another thread we saw certain Bantu/Japanese parallels so this relationship may not be farfetched. Can anyone shed any light?
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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The trick is learning to speak the jibberish language that they speak as genetics.
They have a sex-gene called Y-DNA. That means a male sex gene.
They have a peculiar type of that gene called Haplogroup Y-DNA "YAP+". It is also called Y-DNA DE.
YAP+ or DE was born in Africa. His descendants settled Nigeria, Cameroon, Ethiopia, Kenya, Egypt, etc.
Some other YAP+ left for Asia. They are found mostly in south India and the Andamanese Islands. They are also found in Japan.
So yes, there is probably a blood genetic relationship between mordern day Africans and the Japanese.
Thanks for contextualising that info! Unlike others here,I'll admit IDK. The internet can give information but not knowledge. Are those figures true? If so how close is the genetic relationship,if any between kikuyus and Japanese?
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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To state the obvious, Kikuyus are regular Bantus. 73% of them carry the typical Bantu haplogroup E1b1a, like their fellow Bantus the Kamba. Damn near 0% belong to the Semitic haplogroup J.
According to Tishkoff et al. 2009, Kikuyus are autosomally almost entirely Sub-Saharan. Very little exotic influence can be found there, much less East Asian/Japanese.
What's wrong with being Bantu anyway? West African ancestry is nothing to be ashamed of.
The most famous Kikuyu today, President of Kenya Mwai Kibaki..
Yoshihiko Noda, the new Prime Minister of Japan...
quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: Blah...blah...blah...
.....
According to Tishkoff et al. 2009, Kikuyus are autosomally almost entirely Sub-Saharan. Very little exotic influence can be found there, much less East Asian/Japanese.
What's wrong with being Bantu anyway? West African ancestry is nothing to be ashamed of.
Retard, Kenya is in East Africa not West Africa.
There is no Bantu tribe in West Africa.
Identify the pink guy in the pix below:
Here is a Japanese:
Admiral Isoroku Yamamato. He did the pearl habour attack:
Kenyan Minister Henry Kosgi:
Here you are, a pink-whyte cagot:
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: To state the obvious, Kikuyus are regular Bantus.
That's not entirely true. Kikuyus are Bantu-Hamitic, with strong Cushitic ancestry (significant E1b1b1, and ~35% of their genome in the Hamitic clusters according to Tishkoff.)
However, I do agree that they have no affinity with East Asians, that's just nuts.
Kikuyu with Cush facial tendencies: Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Billypaul: To state the obvious, Kikuyus are regular Bantus. 73% of them carry the typical Bantu haplogroup E1b1a, like their fellow Bantus the Kamba. Damn near 0% belong to the Semitic haplogroup J.
According to Tishkoff et al. 2009, Kikuyus are autosomally almost entirely Sub-Saharan. Very little exotic influence can be found there, much less East Asian/Japanese.
What's wrong with being Bantu anyway? West African ancestry is nothing to be ashamed of.
The most famous Kikuyu today, President of Kenya Mwai Kibaki..
Yoshihiko Noda, the new Prime Minister of Japan...
Nobody was trying to claim anything. I was simply inquiring if those haplogroup figures were correct. This is because if you knew just some of the E.African bantu/Japanese language parallels that genetic relationship would make sensePosts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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There is 0% East Asian blood in Afica, except for Madagascar. So looking for a Japanese-Kikuyu connection is far-fetched.
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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The linguistic and cultural similarities suggest that some of the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE that is found in Japan may have arrived there in historical times from Africa.
Haplogroup D which is also wide-spread in Japan is intimately related to Haplogroup E, as both of their ancestors is the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE.
The Andamanese Islanders show direct relationship with the Japanese. They are actually more related to the Japanese than the many Chinese and Koreans.
Here is a picture of Andamanese Islanders most closely related to the Japanese genetically:
So to recap:
Japanese have African Y-DNA "DE" as well as "YAP+" among others.
Some Japanese do retain close phyenotypic similarity with some Africans.
Japanese culture, and language is very closely related to many living African languages.
We know all humans started out in Africa and migrated all over the world.
We know the migration did not occur once but thousands of times over again and still continues even today.
We know that 2 + 2 = 4.
QED
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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The linguistic and cultural similarities suggest that some of the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE that is found in Japan may have arrived there in historical times from Africa.
Haplogroup D which is also wide-spread in Japan is intimately related to Haplogroup E, as both of their ancestors is the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE.
The Andamanese Islanders show direct relationship with the Japanese. They are actually more related to the Japanese than the many Chinese and Koreans.
Here is a picture of Andamanese Islanders most closely related to the Japanese genetically:
So to recap:
Japanese have African Y-DNA "DE" as well as "YAP+" among others.
Some Japanese do retain close phyenotypic similarity with some Africans.
Japanese culture, and language is very closely related to many living African languages.
We know all humans started out in Africa and migrated all over the world.
We know the migration did not occur once but thousands of times over again and still continues even today.
We know that 2 + 2 = 4.
QED
Thanks for clearing that up! Now I know even though the previous haplogroup J figures were total bs,there is still a clear genetic link via the Andamanese.
Posts: 433 | From: nairobi | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: The linguistic and cultural similarities suggest that some of the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE that is found in Japan may have arrived there in historical times from Africa.
Haplogroup D which is also wide-spread in Japan is intimately related to Haplogroup E, as both of their ancestors is the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE.
The Andamanese Islanders show direct relationship with the Japanese. They are actually more related to the Japanese than the many Chinese and Koreans.
Here is a picture of Andamanese Islanders most closely related to the Japanese genetically:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Y-Chromosomal lineages say very little about total genetic make up. Especially when we are talking about very anciently diverged lineages like D and E (~60,000 years ago, that's well into the paleolithic!).
A Cameroonian man with R1b is genome-wide wise NOT closer to Irish people with R1b, but closer to a fellow Cameroonians with E1b1a or B2b!
Posts: 424 | Registered: May 2011
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: The linguistic and cultural similarities suggest that some of the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE that is found in Japan may have arrived there in historical times from Africa.
Haplogroup D which is also wide-spread in Japan is intimately related to Haplogroup E, as both of their ancestors is the Y-DNA Haplogroup DE.
The Andamanese Islanders show direct relationship with the Japanese. They are actually more related to the Japanese than the many Chinese and Koreans.
Here is a picture of Andamanese Islanders most closely related to the Japanese genetically:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Y-Chromosomal lineages say very little about total genetic make up. Especially when we are talking about very anciently diverged lineages like D and E (~60,000 years ago, that's well into the paleolithic!).
A Cameroonian man with R1b is genome-wide wise NOT closer to Irish people with R1b, but closer to a fellow Cameroonians with E1b1a or B2b!
Y-DNA says it all about genetic relationship Dummy! Y-DNA is passed on unchanged from father to son with very little if any mutations, so it is used as a marker of blood relationship.
Moreover, we are not talking about R1b or "B2b" whatever that means...lol!
We are discussing African/Japanese/Andamanese YAP+ and DE* Y-DNA Haplogroup.
So exactly how does your rambling tie in with the genetic relationship between the African/Japanese/Andamanese Y-DNA YAP+ and DE Haplogroup?
Do you know the significance? If so, explain... Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: Yes, I know Kenya is in East Africa. I also know that Bantus in general arrived pretty recently in East Africa from West Africa.
And their genes show this too.
Hilly Billy, you're map is wordless. Bantus aren't West Africans. This is a fact. A group of Bantus may have migrated from Central-West Africa but it doesn't make them West Africans.
Why don't to stick to European, czech, history. Always try to tell people who they are and what not...as if you know it better. With that bs hate obsession for blacks/ Africans.
Bantu is a language base. And probably proto-Afriasian.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Manu: Japanese people are genetically among the most distant from Africans, despite their high levels of hap D.
Africans are far closer to Scandinavians than to the Japanese!
You are talking bullshyte!
Japanese men test positive for Y-DNA Haplogroup D, and DE otherwise known as YAP+. There might also be some E in there.
Africans and Andamanese test postitive for DE and YAP+.
Those Africans and Andamanese with DE/YAP+ are closest to the Japanese who test positive for DE/YAP+.
There are Africans who are close to Scandinavians but those test positive for Y-DNA Haplogroup E.
Does that help you, Dummy?
Muurish Lessons for Manu:
DE-YAP Insertion
Haplogroup DE-YAP (the YAP+ allele) was present at high frequency only in the Japanese and was rare in other parts of east Asia (Table 2, Fig. 2). This result is consistent with previous findings of YAP+ chromosomes only in populations from Japan and Tibet in east Asia (Hammer and Horai 1995; Hammer et al. 1997; Kim et al. 2000; Tajima at al. 2002).
It was reported that DNA sequencing reavealed that the Alu element in both Asian and African YAP chromosomes are inserted at identical position within the Y-chromosome (Hammer 1994). This provides evidence that YAP insertions are a unique mutational event and that both African and Asian lineages have common ancestry.
See: Peter Underhill, Charles C. Roseman, The case for an African rather than an Asian origin of Human Y-Chromosome YAP insertion - Stanford University Press
Ainu chiefs played an important role in their society. Each Ainu village was administered by three hereditary chiefs. Interestingly, they were not allowed to judge criminals. This function was performed by other members of the community.
The Ainu are a distinctive ethnic group which used to have a culture completely different from that of the Japanese. This culture was virtually destroyed during the Meiji Period when policies aimed at assimilating the Ainu into Japanese culture outlawed their language and restricted their activities.
The word Ainu is derived from the word Aynu, which means human. These days some Ainu prefer the term Utari. During the Edo Period they were often referred to as Ezo, Yezo or Emishi. Although the Ainu probably inhabited large areas of Japan, they are now mainly found in Hokkaido.
During the 20th century heated debate raged over the origins of the Ainu. This was finally settled by the mid 1990’s when genetic studies showed that they are “the descendants of Japan’s ancient Jomon inhabitants, mixed with Korean genes of Yayoi colonists and of the modern Japanese.”1
1 Diamond, Jared (June, 1998). Japanese Roots. Discover Magazine Vol. 19: 86-94.
quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: To state the obvious, Kikuyus are regular Bantus.
That's not entirely true. Kikuyus are Bantu-Hamitic, with strong Cushitic ancestry (significant E1b1b1, and ~35% of their genome in the Hamitic clusters according to Tishkoff.)
However, I do agree that they have no affinity with East Asians, that's just nuts.
Kikuyu with Cush facial tendencies:
It appears that only about 19% of Kikuyu Bantus are E1b1b carriers through intermarriage and admixture. The remaining 70+% are typical Bantu E1b1a carriers. And they tend to look more like the Kenyan president than anything, which is alright.
The Japanese connection really is far-fetched.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: Yes, I know Kenya is in East Africa. I also know that Bantus in general arrived pretty recently in East Africa from West Africa.
And their genes show this too.
Hilly Billy, you're map is wordless. Bantus aren't West Africans. This is a fact. A group of Bantus may have migrated from Central-West Africa but it doesn't make them West Africans.
Why don't to stick to European, czech, history. Always try to tell people who they are and what not...as if you know it better. With that bs hate obsession for blacks/ Africans.
Bantu is a language base. And probably proto-Afriasian.
If Bantus are not related to West Africans, whom they separated from only a few centuries ago, then how in the hell are they going to be related to the Japanese in East Asia, whom ancestral West Africans last formed a common population with tens of thousands of years ago, well before Out of Africa? That defies logic.
Genetics has shown that Bantus are not just related to each other and to West Africans by language, but also biologically.
Also, the languages Bantus actually speak constitute a sub-group of the Niger-Congo language family, not the Afrasian or Afroasiatic and Japonic language families.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Oct 2011
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Address the YAP+ connection. Noone is chatting about Haplogroup E now. It appears your knowledge is limited to Haplogroup E which has no relevance in this conversation.
I repeat, we are talking about DE*/YAP+.
If you have nothing further to add then please fvck off and go fool around with your uneducated types. Ok? Ok, Dumb one? Thanks
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Ha! Ha! Ha! yeah! These white boys are really. .masochistic
mas·och·ism (m s -k z m). n. 1. The deriving of sexual gratification, or the tendency to derive sexual gratification, from being physically or emotionally abused. 2.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: ^^Dumbo
Address the YAP+ connection. Noone is chatting about Haplogroup E now. It appears your knowledge is limited to Haplogroup E which has no relevance in this conversation.
I repeat, we are talking about DE*/YAP+.
If you have nothing further to add then please fvck off and go fool around with your uneducated types. Ok? Ok, Dumb one? Thanks
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: Yes, I know Kenya is in East Africa. I also know that Bantus in general arrived pretty recently in East Africa from West Africa.
And their genes show this too.
Hilly Billy, you're map is wordless. Bantus aren't West Africans. This is a fact. A group of Bantus may have migrated from Central-West Africa but it doesn't make them West Africans.
Why don't to stick to European, czech, history. Always try to tell people who they are and what not...as if you know it better. With that bs hate obsession for blacks/ Africans.
Bantu is a language base. And probably proto-Afriasian.
If Bantus are not related to West Africans, whom they separated from only a few centuries ago, then how in the hell are they going to be related to the Japanese in East Asia, whom ancestral West Africans last formed a common population with tens of thousands of years ago, well before Out of Africa? That defies logic.
Genetics has shown that Bantus are not just related to each other and to West Africans by language, but also biologically.
Also, the languages Bantus actually speak constitute a sub-group of the Niger-Congo language family, not the Afrasian or Afroasiatic and Japonic language families.
White boy, West Africans arent Bantus. West Africans also split from East Africa. Northeast to be correct. I don't see you making a big deal out of that.
In the previous post. I wrote, a group split from Central-West Africa. this does not make all West Africans Bantus. Bantu is spoken in South Africa (the tail). Bantu is likely the bottle neck of proto-Afriasian, how about that. Bantus true origin lies at East Africa. Not West Africa. At one time they moved to Central-West Africa, then to the South.
This is from the same page, you took your image from. lol
Now, please go and concern youself with your own history.
You don't see Africans and Asians tell Europeans who is related to who and not. If we do so, you are quick to cry a river. Jaunt to let you know, many European groups don't have the same basal nor language phylum. Even when they live next door from, and to each other.
quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: Yes, I know Kenya is in East Africa. I also know that Bantus in general arrived pretty recently in East Africa from West Africa.
And their genes show this too.
Hilly Billy, you're map is wordless. Bantus aren't West Africans. This is a fact. A group of Bantus may have migrated from Central-West Africa but it doesn't make them West Africans.
Why don't to stick to European, czech, history. Always try to tell people who they are and what not...as if you know it better. With that bs hate obsession for blacks/ Africans.
Bantu is a language base. And probably proto-Afriasian.
If Bantus are not related to West Africans, whom they separated from only a few centuries ago, then how in the hell are they going to be related to the Japanese in East Asia, whom ancestral West Africans last formed a common population with tens of thousands of years ago, well before Out of Africa? That defies logic.
Genetics has shown that Bantus are not just related to each other and to West Africans by language, but also biologically.
Also, the languages Bantus actually speak constitute a sub-group of the Niger-Congo language family, not the Afrasian or Afroasiatic and Japonic language families.
White boy, West Africans arent Bantus. West Africans also split from East Africa. Northeast to be correct. I don't see you making a big deal out of that.
In the previous post. I wrote, a group split from Central-West Africa. this does not make all West Africans Bantus. Bantu is spoken in South Africa (the tail). Bantu is likely the bottle neck of proto-Afriasian, how about that. Bantus true origin lies at East Africa. Not West Africa. At one time they moved to Central-West Africa, then to the South.
This is from the same page, you took your image from. lol
Now, please go and concern youself with your own history.
You don't see Africans and Asians tell Europeans who is related to who and not. If we do so, you are quick to cry a river. Jaunt to let you know, many European groups don't have the same basal nor language phylum. Even when they live next door from, and to each other.
That analogy between Europe and Africa is a not a good one. This is because Africa has the greatest genetic diversity in the world since many different peoples inhabit the continent, some biologically (and culturally and linguistically) quite distant from each other. All Europeans, on the other hand, cluster together when compared with other populations. This discrepancy is instantly apparent in the first few columns of the autosomal DNA chart above.
Notice the shared color proportions between the Bantus and West Africans throughout the various structural levels, from beginning to end. That means virtually identical global ancestry. This is to be expected since West Africa is obviously where Bantus migrated from in the first place, and quite recently at that. Archaeology has shown this too.
Contrast the general Sub-Saharan pattern with the Egyptian, Mozabite Berber and Ethiopian samples, which much more closely resemble the Middle Eastern patterns. That doesn't exactly help the case for a single Pan-African race.
About haplogroup DE*, the reason why researchers were able to locate a few samples in Nigeria that they initially believed were DE* was because they tested well over 1000 Nigerian men. No sample anywhere near that large has ever been devoted to investigating the presence of the clade in other areas of the world. So the discovery of DE* in West Africa is not really a function of DE* possibly originating there so much as it is a function of really asymmetrical sampling.
Just so you know, researchers have also pointed out that the five DE* samples that were found in Nigeria probably aren't really DE* to begin with.
"Here we report a new very rare deep-rooting haplogroup within the YAP clade, together with data on other deep-rooting YAP clades (Fig 1). The new haplogroup, so far found only in five Nigerians, is the least derived of all YAP chromosomes according to currently known binary markers, such that application of the same phylogeographic inference method used by Hammer and colleagues (the nested cladistic method of TEMPLETON et al. 1995 ) leads to the opposite conclusion—i.e., significant evidence for range expansion from West Africa to Asia. However, we show that the apparently paraphyletic status of this haplogroup, and hence the conclusions of nested cladistic analysis, are also likely to be illusory. The interior branching order, and hence the origin, of YAP-derived haplogroups remains uncertain. We discuss the problems presented by rare deep-rooting lineages for Y chromosome phylogeography."
quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: Yes, I know Kenya is in East Africa. I also know that Bantus in general arrived pretty recently in East Africa from West Africa.
And their genes show this too.
Hilly Billy, you're map is wordless. Bantus aren't West Africans. This is a fact. A group of Bantus may have migrated from Central-West Africa but it doesn't make them West Africans.
Why don't to stick to European, czech, history. Always try to tell people who they are and what not...as if you know it better. With that bs hate obsession for blacks/ Africans.
Bantu is a language base. And probably proto-Afriasian.
If Bantus are not related to West Africans, whom they separated from only a few centuries ago, then how in the hell are they going to be related to the Japanese in East Asia, whom ancestral West Africans last formed a common population with tens of thousands of years ago, well before Out of Africa? That defies logic.
Genetics has shown that Bantus are not just related to each other and to West Africans by language, but also biologically.
Also, the languages Bantus actually speak constitute a sub-group of the Niger-Congo language family, not the Afrasian or Afroasiatic and Japonic language families.
White boy, West Africans arent Bantus. West Africans also split from East Africa. Northeast to be correct. I don't see you making a big deal out of that.
In the previous post. I wrote, a group split from Central-West Africa. this does not make all West Africans Bantus. Bantu is spoken in South Africa (the tail). Bantu is likely the bottle neck of proto-Afriasian, how about that. Bantus true origin lies at East Africa. Not West Africa. At one time they moved to Central-West Africa, then to the South.
This is from the same page, you took your image from. lol
Now, please go and concern youself with your own history.
You don't see Africans and Asians tell Europeans who is related to who and not. If we do so, you are quick to cry a river. Jaunt to let you know, many European groups don't have the same basal nor language phylum. Even when they live next door from, and to each other.
That analogy between Europe and Africa is a not a good one. This is because Africa has the greatest genetic diversity in the world since many different peoples inhabit the continent, some biologically (and culturally and linguistically) quite distant from each other. All Europeans, on the other hand, cluster together when compared with other populations. This discrepancy is instantly apparent in the first few columns of the autosomal DNA chart above.
Notice the shared color proportions between the Bantus and West Africans throughout the various structural levels, from beginning to end. That means virtually identical global ancestry. This is to be expected since West Africa is obviously where Bantus migrated from in the first place, and quite recently at that. Archaeology has shown this too.
Contrast the general Sub-Saharan pattern with the Egyptian, Mozabite Berber and Ethiopian samples, which much more closely resemble the Middle Eastern patterns. That doesn't exactly help the case for a single Pan-African race.
About haplogroup DE*, the reason why researchers were able to locate a few samples in Nigeria that they initially believed were DE* was because they tested well over 1000 Nigerian men. No sample anywhere near that large has ever been devoted to investigating the presence of the clade in other areas of the world. So the discovery of DE* in West Africa is not really a function of DE* possibly originating there so much as it is a function of really asymmetrical sampling.
Just so you know, researchers have also pointed out that the five DE* samples that were found in Nigeria probably aren't really DE* to begin with.
"Here we report a new very rare deep-rooting haplogroup within the YAP clade, together with data on other deep-rooting YAP clades (Fig 1). The new haplogroup, so far found only in five Nigerians, is the least derived of all YAP chromosomes according to currently known binary markers, such that application of the same phylogeographic inference method used by Hammer and colleagues (the nested cladistic method of TEMPLETON et al. 1995 ) leads to the opposite conclusion—i.e., significant evidence for range expansion from West Africa to Asia. However, we show that the apparently paraphyletic status of this haplogroup, and hence the conclusions of nested cladistic analysis, are also likely to be illusory. The interior branching order, and hence the origin, of YAP-derived haplogroups remains uncertain. We discuss the problems presented by rare deep-rooting lineages for Y chromosome phylogeography."
Yes, the anology is a very good one, because all Africans are of the same basal, PN2 clade Hg E*. And the reason why Africans are genetically diverse is because mankind spend most of its days in Africa. Therefore had more time to develop certain traits coherent with genes. Why we see a separatism at times is because of tribelazation.
The reason why Europeans look homogenious is because they are of a small subset. Who live in very much like the same climate zone. Yet, are not of the same basal. Your autosomal issue deals with the fact that Europe is small. Therefore lived closer to encounter into each other. Also slavery amongst Europeans plays part in this. Yet, we see Europeans do not all cluster with in the same basal. Nor do cluster linguistically. This is in thiny Europe, the subset. lol
All that other stuff you quoted was unnecessary. Remember this, you are at Egyptsearch. lol
And fact is that Bantus are of East African descent. Not West African. lol
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: Yes, the anology is a very good one, because all Africans are of the same basal, PN2 clade Hg E*. And the reason why Africans are genetically diverse is because mankind spend most of its days in Africa. Therefore had more time to develop certain traits coherent with genes. Why we see a separatism at times is because of tribelazation.
The reason why Europeans look homogenious is because they are of a small subset. Who live in very much like the same climate zone. Yet, are not of the same basal. Your autosomal issue deals with the fact that Europe is small. Therefore lived closer to encounter into each other. Also slavery amongst Europeans plays part in this. Yet, we see Europeans do not all cluster with in the same basal. Nor do cluster linguistically. This is in thiny Europe, the subset. lol
All that other stuff you quoted was unnecessary. Remember this, you are at Egyptsearch. lol
And fact is that Bantus are of East African descent. Not West African. lol
Nonsense. You clearly do not understand how to read STRUCTURE charts, and I don't have the time or the desire to write up a tutorial.
The fact of the matter is, the oldest osteological remains ancestral to Bantus have been found in West Africa. Bantus speak languages that belong to the Niger-Congo family that evolved in West Africa (you do know most Europeans speak Indo-European languages, right?). Their virtually identical autosomal makeup to West Africans has also already been well-established. Google "Bantu expansion" when you find the time; see what the gives you.
The argument that all Africans carry haplogroup E so they must be related is both false and misleading. It's autosomal DNA that measures global biological affinities, not uniparental markers.
"The main advantage of measuring autosomal over uniparental ancestry lies in the ability to measure admixture within individuals contributed by all of their ancestors rather than just some of them."
Furthermore, not all Africans carry haplogroup E. Most Pygmies, Khoisan and Nilotes in Sudan don't. Nevertheless, these relict populations still biologically cluster with haplogroup E-carrying Bantus and West Africans, as can be seen in that autosomal chart above.
Although many Bantus now carry haplogroup E lineages, they don't autosomally cluster with haplogroup E-carrying Eurasians, North Africans and many populations in the Horn region. Why is that? Because most Sub-Saharan groups acquired haplogroup E lineages only recently. Bantus and West Africans originally belonged to the archaic haplogroups A and B, just like the Pygmies, Khoisan and Nilotes that they still autosomally cluster with.
"Together with the introduction of iron-smelting techniques ~2.7 kya, agriculture led ultimately to the large-scale Bantu migrations from the Gulf of Guinea to the south of the continent [18]. From the perspective of Y chromosome genetic variation, such movements are believed to have erased much of the pre-existing diversity, replacing it with the now dominant haplogroup E3a-M2 lineages [4,19,20]."
"the data presented demonstrate a recent origin for most paternal lineages in west-central Africa as a result of the "Bantu expansion" that erased the Y-chromosome diversity previously found. However, some traces of ancient paternal lineages are found, mainly in hunter-gathererers. These results contrast with the data provided by mtDNA, where ancient lineages are found and substantial maternal gene flow from hunter-gatherers to Bantu-farmers has been suggested."
quote:Originally posted by Billypaul: Although many Bantus now carry haplogroup E lineages, they don't autosomally cluster with haplogroup E-carrying Eurasians, North Africans and many populations in the Horn region. Why is that? Because most Sub-Saharan groups acquired haplogroup E lineages only recently. Bantus and West Africans originally belonged to the archaic haplogroups A and B, just like the Pygmies, Khoisan and Nilotes that they still autosomally cluster with.
"Together with the introduction of iron-smelting techniques ~2.7 kya, agriculture led ultimately to the large-scale Bantu migrations from the Gulf of Guinea to the south of the continent [18]. From the perspective of Y chromosome genetic variation, such movements are believed to have erased much of the pre-existing diversity, replacing it with the now dominant haplogroup E3a-M2 lineages [4,19,20]."
"the data presented demonstrate a recent origin for most paternal lineages in west-central Africa as a result of the "Bantu expansion" that erased the Y-chromosome diversity previously found. However, some traces of ancient paternal lineages are found, mainly in hunter-gathererers. These results contrast with the data provided by mtDNA, where ancient lineages are found and substantial maternal gene flow from hunter-gatherers to Bantu-farmers has been suggested."
Sorry, but I'm going to have to take issue with your interpretation of those passages. They don't say anywhere that West African or Bantu peoples originally had "archaic" haplogroups and only acquired E recently. They do say the Bantu expansion had a significant effect on the Y-chromosome gene pool of some other African populations (a statement I do not disagree with BTW), but they don't tell you what kind of haplogroups the Bantu or West Africans in general originally had.
I also notice that you claim that Horn Africans are genetically closer to Middle Easterners than to other Africans. If that were true, how do you explain this?
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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