posted
So I know..this has been covered ad-infinatium and probably frowned on by some of the vets as sensational Bull pucky..but I just can't let it go.And no I am not some new ager..or of the aliens seeded earth type...don't get it twisted.But I really like these folks since...being introduced to them by Carl-Sagan..In the early eighties...I remember being a little upest with the Astronomer..skipped Timbuck-tu as a possible scource for their knowladage..and went on about some wondering Euro..who might have taught them in the first place. The Article below said the same sh!t but add aliens...as a possibility but no mention of the Univerisity of Timbuck-tu as a possible scource.
So here is a littele something I picked up while having a little down-time.
The Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B
Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. (Copyright Lee Krystek 1998)
In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. According to their traditions, the star Sirius has a companion star which is invisible to the human eye. This companion star has a 50 year elliptical orbit around the visible Sirius and is extremely heavy. It also rotates on its axis.
This legend might be of little interest to anybody but the two French anthropologists, Marcel Griaule and Germain Dieterlen, who recorded it from four Dogon priests in the 1930's. Of little interest except that it is exactly true. How did a people who lacked any kind of astronomical devices know so much about an invisible star? The star, which scientists call Sirius B, wasn't even photographed until it was done by a large telescope in 1970.
The Dogon stories explain that also. According to their oral traditions, a race people from the Sirius system called the Nommos visited Earth thousands of years ago. The Nommos were ugly, amphibious beings that resembled mermen and mermaids. They also appear in Babylonian, Accadian, and Sumerian myths. The Egyptian Goddess Isis, who is sometimes depicted as a mermaid, is also linked with the star Sirius.
The Nommos, according to the Dogon legend, lived on a planet that orbits another star in the Sirius system. They landed on Earth in an "ark" that made a spinning decent to the ground with great noise and wind. It was the Nommos that gave the Dogon the knowledge about Sirius B.
The legend goes on to say the Nommos also furnished the Dogon's with some interesting information about our own solar system: That the planet Jupiter has four major moons, that Saturn has rings and that the planets orbit the sun. These were all facts discovered by Westerners only after Galileo invented the telescope.
The story of the Dogon and their legend was first brought to popular attention by Robert K.G. Temple in a book published in 1977 called The Sirius Mystery. Science writer Ian Ridpath and astronomer Carl Sagan made a reply to Temple's book, suggesting that this modern knowledge about Sirius must have come from Westerners who discussed astronomy with the Dogon priests. The priests then included this new information into the older traditions. This, in turn, mislead the anthropologists.
This is a possibility considering Sirius B's existence was suspected as early as 1844 and seen was through a telescope in 1862. It doesn't seem to explain a 400-year old Dogon artifact that apparently depicts the Sirius configuration nor the ceremonies held by the Dogon since the 13th century to celebrate the cycle of Sirius A and B. It also doesn't explain how the Dogons knew about the super-density of Sirius B, a fact only discovered a few years before the anthropologists recorded the Dogon stories.
It is also important to remember that although many parts of the Dogon legends seem to ring true, other portions are clearly mistaken. One of the Dogon's beliefs is that Sirius B occupied the place where our Sun is now. Physics clearly prohibits this. Also, if the Dogon believe that Sirius B orbits Sirius A every 50 years, why do they hold their celebrations every 60 years?
Sirius A is the brightest star in our sky and can easily be seen in the winter months in the northern hemisphere. Look for the constellation Orion. Orion's belt are the three bright stars in a row. Follow an imaginary line through the three stars to Sirius which is just above the horizon. It is bluish in color.
Sirius is only 8.6 light years from Earth. Astronomer W.Bessel was the first to suspect that Sirius had an invisible companion when he observed that the path of the star wobbled. In the 1920's it was determined that Sirius B, the companion of Sirius, was a "white dwarf" star. The pull of its gravity caused Sirius's wavy movement.
White dwarfs are small, dense stars that burn dimly. Sirius B is, in fact, smaller than the planet Earth. One teaspoon of Sirius B is so dense that it weighs 5 tons.
So did alien fish-men pay a visit to ancient Earth and give the Dogon their knowledge? Or was the Dogon's culture contaminated by western visitors? Or could the Dogon's have had ancient technical or non-technical means to find this information out? Or is the whole thing just a matter of coincidence?
The question maybe settled as larger and more powerful telescopes take a look at the Sirius system. According to the legend there is a third star: Sirius C, and it is around Sirius C that the home planet of the Nommos orbits. Most scientists do not consider any part of the Sirius system a prime candidate for life, though.
When Temple first issued his book in the 1970's there was no solid evidence of a Sirius C. In 1995, however, two French researchers, Daniel Benest and J.L. Duvent, authored an article in the prestigious journal Astronomy and Astrophysics with the title Is Sirius a Triple Star? and suggested (based on observations of motions in the Sirius system) there is a small third star there. They thought the star was probably of a type known as a "red dwarf" and only had about .05 the mass of Sirius B.
So has the home star of the Nommos been discovered? Or is this just another strange coincidence?
Book: The Sirius Mystery: New Scientific Evidence Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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The Sirius Mystery: how do the Dogon people of Mali know about Sirius B?
In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago. Some have gone so far as to suggest that this book was the primary inspiration for the so-called ‘New Egyptology’ of Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval and their imitators. Even if this is a rather hyperbolic assessment of the book’s impact, it has to be said that Temple is in a class above most Bad Archaeologists: he presents an apparently secure thesis, backed up with rigorous scientific data of a type that most others in the genre eschew.
Temple begins with the work of Marcel Griaule (1898-1956) and Germaine Dieterlen (1903-1999), a pair of French anthropologists who worked in what is now Mali from 1931 to 1956. They reported an apparently anomalous knowledge of astronomy that formed part of the traditional lore of the Dogon, a people of the central plateau of Mali. This knowledge is alleged to include accounts of the rings of Saturn, the presence of four moons orbiting Jupiter and, most surprisingly of all, an account of two companions of the star Sirius. Griaule first published this data in Dieu d’eau (‘God of Water’, 1948), in which he records his conversations with a blind hunter, Ogotemmêli, who claimed to have extensive knowledge of Dogon lore, much of which was restricted to certain tribal elders. Griaule and Dieterlen were able to synthesise the cosmogony from Ogotemmêli’s statements. The Dogon representation of 'Sirius' as reported by Griaule and Dietelen
The Dogon representation of ‘Sirius’ as reported by Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, drawn by Ogotemmêli. The oval represents Amma, the primordial egg and contains: A: Sirius B: Pô tolo C: Emma ya D: The Nommo E: The Yourougou (a mythical male, destined to pursue his female twin) F: The star of women, a satellite of Emma Ya G: The sign of women H: Woman’s reproductive organs, represented by a uterus
Temple was most impressed by the Dogon belief in a complex system of stars making up what we see as the single star, Sirius. This is the brightest star in our skies and, according to the Dogon, as reported by Griaule and Dieterlen, is actually a bright star with several smaller (even ‘invisible’) companions. Focusing especially on a representation of the system drawn by Ogotemmêli (who, it must be remembered, was blind), Temple recognised the highly elliptical orbit of Sirius B, a white dwarf first photographed in 1970, around the principal star of the system, Sirius A. Moreover, Temple found reference to a third component of the system, dubbed Sirius C by the astronomers who accepted its existence (its existence had been suggested but never observed). According to the Dogon, this knowledge had been imparted by the Nommo, fish-like water spirits, in the distant past. Making the evidence fit the theory
Temple needed to explain how an obscure Malian tribe might have gained such an unexpected insight into the make-up of the Sirius star system. He did this by proposing a link between the Dogon and Egyptian Bronze Age civilisation, in which Sirius played an important symbolic role, its rising at dawn announcing the onset of the all-important annual Nile flood. According to Temple, the Dogon were guardians of the oracle of Amun-Rē‘ at the desert oasis of Siwa and were the descendants of the Argonauts. He identifies Sirius with the god Anubis (Anpu), as the Greeks referred to Sirius at the Dog Star and Anubis is depicted as a jackal. Searching for an ancient origin for the Nommo, he turns to the Bablonian writer Berossos (Greek Βήρωσσος, Akkadian Belreušu, fl. early third century BC), whose mostly lost Babyloniaca Book I describes a part-man, part-fish being that emerged from the Persian Gulf to teach humanity various arts of civilisation. This creature is thought to be the Uan (or Uanna) of Babylonian myth, sometimes identified with Adapa, the equally mythical first king of Eridu, also identified by some with Atrahasis, the hero of the Babylonian version of the flood legend.
Temple suggests that Uan was an extraterrestrial visitor who imparted civilisation to the ancient Sumerians, much as von Däniken had suggested rather earlier. However, the detailed anthropological data supplied by Temple was much stronger evidence than anything provided by von Däniken and was therefore superficially more convincing. The theory begins to fall apart
However, by the time Temple had published the second edition of The Sirius Mystery in 1998, the whole question of the Dogon’s apparently inexplicable knowledge of Sirius had been blown apart. No-one had questioned Griaule and Dieterlen’s findings until the early 1990s. And this is where the problems for the hypothesis began. In 1991, the anthropologist Walter van Beek undertook fieldwork among the Dogon, hoping to find evidence for their knowledge of Sirius. As the earlier authors had indicated that aorund 15% of the adult males were initiated into the Sirius lore, this ought to have been a relatively easy task. However, van Beek was unable to find anyone who knew about Sirius B. As ought to have been obvious from the outset, Griaule and Dieterlen’s reliance on a single informant – Ogotemmêli – severely compromises the validity of their data.
But it gets worse. The Dogon themselves do not agree that Sigu tolo is Sirius: it is the bright star that appears to announce the beginning of a festival (sigu), which some identify with Venus, while others claim it is invisible. To polo is not Sirius B, as it sometimes approaches Sigu tolo, making it brighter, while it is sometimes more distant, when it appears as a group of twinkling stars (which sounds like a description of the Pleiades). All in all, the ‘inexplicable’ astronomical knowledge turns out to be too confused to bear the interpretation put on it by Griaule and Dieterlen. It is probably no coincidence that Griaule was a keen amateur astronomer and used his knowledge to rationalise an extremely confusing traditional lore that the Dogon themselves could not agree on.
Robert Temple ought to have known about van Beek’s fieldwork long before the second edition of The Sirius Mystery was published. He also made basic mistakes in his interpretation of Egyptian, Greek and Mesopotamian mythology that undermines his account of the origins of the Dogon’s supposed knowledge. The Egyptians did not identify Sirius as the Dog Star – that was a Greek idea – so it cannot be linked with Anubis. Indeed, Sirius (Spdt in Egyptian) was specifically identified with Isis, as the constellation known to the Greeks as Orion (the hunter whose dog was represented by Sirius) was identified by the Egyptians with Osiris, the husband of Isis.
Ultimately, The Sirius Mystery presents no real mystery. It uses discredited anthropological data, muddled mythological interpretation and lots of unconfirmable speculation. It has become a classic text of Bad Archaeology.
This page was last updated on 17 August 2007 Written by Keith Fitzpatrick-Matthews Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
The work of Walter van Beek does not disprove the Mali knowledge. If you remember the French researchers spent years building up a relationship with the Dogon before they found out secret knowledge.
It is not surprising that Walter van Beek did not learn anything after only a few visits to the Dogon. You must earn the respect of these traditional scholars before you learn their secrets.
.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: An opposing view:
The Sirius Mystery: how do the Dogon people of Mali know about Sirius B?
In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago. Some have gone so far as to suggest that this book was the primary inspiration for the so-called ‘New Egyptology’ of Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval and their imitators. Even if this is a rather hyperbolic assessment of the book’s impact, it has to be said that Temple is in a class above most Bad Archaeologists: he presents an apparently secure thesis, backed up with rigorous scientific data of a type that most others in the genre eschew.
Temple begins with the work of Marcel Griaule (1898-1956) and Germaine Dieterlen (1903-1999), a pair of French anthropologists who worked in what is now Mali from 1931 to 1956. They reported an apparently anomalous knowledge of astronomy that formed part of the traditional lore of the Dogon, a people of the central plateau of Mali. This knowledge is alleged to include accounts of the rings of Saturn, the presence of four moons orbiting Jupiter and, most surprisingly of all, an account of two companions of the star Sirius. Griaule first published this data in Dieu d’eau (‘God of Water’, 1948), in which he records his conversations with a blind hunter, Ogotemmêli, who claimed to have extensive knowledge of Dogon lore, much of which was restricted to certain tribal elders. Griaule and Dieterlen were able to synthesise the cosmogony from Ogotemmêli’s statements. The Dogon representation of 'Sirius' as reported by Griaule and Dietelen
The Dogon representation of ‘Sirius’ as reported by Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, drawn by Ogotemmêli. The oval represents Amma, the primordial egg and contains: A: Sirius B: Pô tolo C: Emma ya D: The Nommo E: The Yourougou (a mythical male, destined to pursue his female twin) F: The star of women, a satellite of Emma Ya G: The sign of women H: Woman’s reproductive organs, represented by a uterus
Temple was most impressed by the Dogon belief in a complex system of stars making up what we see as the single star, Sirius. This is the brightest star in our skies and, according to the Dogon, as reported by Griaule and Dieterlen, is actually a bright star with several smaller (even ‘invisible’) companions. Focusing especially on a representation of the system drawn by Ogotemmêli (who, it must be remembered, was blind), Temple recognised the highly elliptical orbit of Sirius B, a white dwarf first photographed in 1970, around the principal star of the system, Sirius A. Moreover, Temple found reference to a third component of the system, dubbed Sirius C by the astronomers who accepted its existence (its existence had been suggested but never observed). According to the Dogon, this knowledge had been imparted by the Nommo, fish-like water spirits, in the distant past. Making the evidence fit the theory
Temple needed to explain how an obscure Malian tribe might have gained such an unexpected insight into the make-up of the Sirius star system. He did this by proposing a link between the Dogon and Egyptian Bronze Age civilisation, in which Sirius played an important symbolic role, its rising at dawn announcing the onset of the all-important annual Nile flood. According to Temple, the Dogon were guardians of the oracle of Amun-Rē‘ at the desert oasis of Siwa and were the descendants of the Argonauts. He identifies Sirius with the god Anubis (Anpu), as the Greeks referred to Sirius at the Dog Star and Anubis is depicted as a jackal. Searching for an ancient origin for the Nommo, he turns to the Bablonian writer Berossos (Greek Βήρωσσος, Akkadian Belreušu, fl. early third century BC), whose mostly lost Babyloniaca Book I describes a part-man, part-fish being that emerged from the Persian Gulf to teach humanity various arts of civilisation. This creature is thought to be the Uan (or Uanna) of Babylonian myth, sometimes identified with Adapa, the equally mythical first king of Eridu, also identified by some with Atrahasis, the hero of the Babylonian version of the flood legend.
Temple suggests that Uan was an extraterrestrial visitor who imparted civilisation to the ancient Sumerians, much as von Däniken had suggested rather earlier. However, the detailed anthropological data supplied by Temple was much stronger evidence than anything provided by von Däniken and was therefore superficially more convincing. The theory begins to fall apart
However, by the time Temple had published the second edition of The Sirius Mystery in 1998, the whole question of the Dogon’s apparently inexplicable knowledge of Sirius had been blown apart. No-one had questioned Griaule and Dieterlen’s findings until the early 1990s. And this is where the problems for the hypothesis began. In 1991, the anthropologist Walter van Beek undertook fieldwork among the Dogon, hoping to find evidence for their knowledge of Sirius. As the earlier authors had indicated that aorund 15% of the adult males were initiated into the Sirius lore, this ought to have been a relatively easy task. However, van Beek was unable to find anyone who knew about Sirius B. As ought to have been obvious from the outset, Griaule and Dieterlen’s reliance on a single informant – Ogotemmêli – severely compromises the validity of their data.
But it gets worse. The Dogon themselves do not agree that Sigu tolo is Sirius: it is the bright star that appears to announce the beginning of a festival (sigu), which some identify with Venus, while others claim it is invisible. To polo is not Sirius B, as it sometimes approaches Sigu tolo, making it brighter, while it is sometimes more distant, when it appears as a group of twinkling stars (which sounds like a description of the Pleiades). All in all, the ‘inexplicable’ astronomical knowledge turns out to be too confused to bear the interpretation put on it by Griaule and Dieterlen. It is probably no coincidence that Griaule was a keen amateur astronomer and used his knowledge to rationalise an extremely confusing traditional lore that the Dogon themselves could not agree on.
Robert Temple ought to have known about van Beek’s fieldwork long before the second edition of The Sirius Mystery was published. He also made basic mistakes in his interpretation of Egyptian, Greek and Mesopotamian mythology that undermines his account of the origins of the Dogon’s supposed knowledge. The Egyptians did not identify Sirius as the Dog Star – that was a Greek idea – so it cannot be linked with Anubis. Indeed, Sirius (Spdt in Egyptian) was specifically identified with Isis, as the constellation known to the Greeks as Orion (the hunter whose dog was represented by Sirius) was identified by the Egyptians with Osiris, the husband of Isis.
Ultimately, The Sirius Mystery presents no real mystery. It uses discredited anthropological data, muddled mythological interpretation and lots of unconfirmable speculation. It has become a classic text of Bad Archaeology.
This page was last updated on 17 August 2007 Written by Keith Fitzpatrick-Matthews
posted
Dr Winters, I agree the African priest-hood do not part with sacred knowladge easly..and one must be an apprentice for years perhaps even decades before giving the true meanings of things..and they didn't allow just anyway Joe-Shmlo in for the heck of it...look how much trouble Pythagoras had to go through even after Pharaoh Amasis 2nd,gave the green light and said it was cool.It took a strongly worded letter from said pharaoh from him to be admitted...and I suspect one of the reasons indiginous African script,was not wide spread because of the attitude of the priests..as guardians of sacred knowladge.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Dr Winters, I agree the African priest-hood do not part with sacred knowladge easly..and one must be an apprentice for years perhaps even decades before giving the true meanings of things..and they didn't allow just anyway Joe-Shmlo in for the heck of it...look how much trouble Pythagoras had to go through even after Pharaoh Amasis 2nd,gave the green light and said it was cool.It took a strongly worded letter from said pharaoh from him to be admitted...and I suspect one of the reasons indiginous African script,was not wide spread because of the attitude of the priests..as guardians of sacred knowladge.
The above statement is what I have been trying to get people to understand for years about information concerning African history and concepts of myth or spirituality. You cannot penatrate its core without being initiated into the teachings. They don't do this to be crass, but learning is a process and initiation is the only way to part this knowledge in a way that the person experiences the teachings: not just recites what someone has told him/her.
"If you wish to know who I am, If you wish me to teach you what I know, Cease for the while to be what you are And forget what you know."
Posts: 853 | From: Houston | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent
Such a nonsense summary on Dogon origins, which derives from Robert Temple's baseless conjecture. I don't think any of the "vets" would frown upon an indigenous African belief system as sensational, unless you're referring to the alien connection which is just as fanciful as the wandering European explanation.
quote:One of the Dogon's beliefs is that Sirius B occupied the place where our Sun is now.
Not the ones who spoke with Griaule. Think about it also. Why would the name (Sirius B) be applied to a star that doesn't share a binary rotaton with another Sirius? Europeans gave it the name Sirius B since they described this star as revolving around what they already knew to be Sirius (now Sirius A). Where is the author's source that "one Dogon belief places Sirius B in the position of our own star? That's a rather lazy and pathetic way to discredit them.
quote:One of the Dogon's beliefs is that Sirius B occupied the place where our Sun is now. Physics clearly prohibits this. Also, if the Dogon believe that Sirius B orbits Sirius A every 50 years, why do they hold their celebrations every 60 years?
Why should we even assume that the two events are connected? As another writer notes:
There is a supreme irony in the fact that Griaule and Dieterlen want to know how their informants knew about these stars without a telescope, and also want to know why the Sigu was 60 years, when Sirius B orbit was 50. The first question is the very Sirius Enigma pursued by many today. But the second question is still valid: How should the two events, sigu and the orbit of "po tolo", be connected, when their occurence is every 60 years and 50 years respectively? The orbit is reported as being counted double (100 years) in base 80 (80 + 20). Sigu is 60 years (80 - 20). The two events would coincide only once every 300 years. Alternatively, (hold your breath) they could not be connected at all.
Besides, why would it be so hard to imagine that they simply miscalculated by ten years if they do coincide?
Also, one would be hard pressed to find me a first or second-hand description of the Nommo as being "alien Fish men". Robert Temple's theories have nothing to do with the Dogon. I know the writer is trying to be balanced and nuanced, but he/she's forcing it. As they say, he/she's "putting paint where it ain't".
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote: In 1991, the anthropologist Walter van Beek undertook fieldwork among the Dogon, hoping to find evidence for their knowledge of Sirius. As the earlier authors had indicated that aorund 15% of the adult males were initiated into the Sirius lore, this ought to have been a relatively easy task. However, van Beek was unable to find anyone who knew about Sirius B. As ought to have been obvious from the outset, Griaule and Dieterlen’s reliance on a single informant – Ogotemmêli – severely compromises the validity of their data.
This kind of reasoning and hyperbole irks me. Van Beek was addressed directly by two of the anthropologists who were a part of that team (one being Griaule's daughter), and basically established that van Beek simply appealed to ignorance. He found no evidence, so therefore none exists, even at the expense of his predecessors. Why is this an acceptable argument? Griaule and Dietelen were initiated. See the documentary below:
After Germaine Dietelen's passing, she was even given a ceremonial Dogon funeral, where she was treated indistinctly as one of their own. van Beek has/had no such status. As was pointed out by Griaule's daughter, van Beek (despite his contributions) simply has a naive understanding of west African esoteric tradition. A foreigner can't simply show up to a Dogon settlement with an agenda and expect them to appease it. For anyone to say that this should have been an "easy task" obviously shows that they know VERY little about African knowledge systems.
quote:But it gets worse. The Dogon themselves do not agree that Sigu tolo is Sirius: it is the bright star that appears to announce the beginning of a festival (sigu), which some identify with Venus, while others claim it is invisible. To polo is not Sirius B, as it sometimes approaches Sigu tolo, making it brighter, while it is sometimes more distant, when it appears as a group of twinkling stars (which sounds like a description of the Pleiades). All in all, the ‘inexplicable’ astronomical knowledge turns out to be too confused to bear the interpretation put on it by Griaule and Dieterlen. It is probably no coincidence that Griaule was a keen amateur astronomer and used his knowledge to rationalise an extremely confusing traditional lore that the Dogon themselves could not agree on.
This is what you call the art of deception. See how he uses the adjective "keen" to describe Griaule's so-called expertise in astronomy. It turns out that this overstatement in and of its self cannot be overstated. Genevieve Calame-Griaule, the daughter of Marcel Griaule and team member, stated explicitly in her rebuttal that her father knew absolutely nothing about astronomy and astronomy was not one of his primary interests, let alone him being an amateur astronomer and a "keen" amateur astronomer at that. And the Dogon knew exactly what they were referring to when they describe po tolo as revolving around Sirius A. So much so that Germaine Dieterlen replicated a kind of map that is shown in the afro-mentioned documentary! It clearly shows Siruis B revolving around Sirius A, and even what was later identified as Sirius C. The writer is tryin but he's lyin.
Griaule on Van Beek:
"Griaule's daughter and living colleague Genevieve Calame-Griaule, came to defend the project in "On the Dogon Restudied." (Current Anthropology 32:5, Dec 1991) p.575-577. Calame-Griaule counterattacks the ecologists own Materialist agenda as blinded to the relevance of esoteric traditions, and discounting van Beek's criticism as unchecked speculation."
Temple is a nut job, but extrapolating his views to the Dogon themselves is beyond ridiculous. van Beek's field work on this issue has no bearing on Griaule's, nor does it undermine it.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Sundjata thanks for posting the films. They are quite interestings to say the least.I was surprised to see that an Afro-American boxer played an important role in the funding of the project.
.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Hay Sundjata!! good to have you back man.I posted this thread with hopes of someone untangling the sensationlism of Temple..and the crass rejectionism of Van Beek. But any reading on these folks one run into both..Like I said the very first time I have even heard of these folks was on Carl Sagan's Cosmos..but I did know of the university town of Timbuck-tu,...so I was wondering why no one even bother to look at them as a possible source..even if one thought the locals themselves couldn't come up with such an advance theory of how the universe works.and of course you got the Temple folks who connect them to Kemet and from Kemet to Sirius system where the gods/goddess and fish people came from...as a matter o fact type Dogan cosomology in your search engine and you will be bombarded with the above. Thanks for the links both you and Asr-Imhotep...the Fractials are very intersting need to view more read more...again thanks.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
No problem Dr. Winters. Have been holding on to them for a while and thought I'd share but needed the right format.
@ Brada Anansi. Thanks for the welcome. To your point, I agree 100%. The debate seems to degenerate often into a battle between two extremes. Either aliens imparted this knowledge or the claims of acquisition are fabricated. This is definitely a false dilemma. That the source of such knowledge would derive from Timbuktu, I'm not sure since chronology may seem to rule against that. The star map replicated by Germaine Dieterlen had its origins in the 13th or 14th century if I recall correctly. Thus, Dogon cosmology had already been evolved during the glory days of Timbuktu. But I'm sure that similar knowledge systems would more than likely suggest a shared root.
I'm glad that you created this thread as the Dogon/Sirius "mystery" is among the most fascinating topics in Africana.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
@Sundjiata and @ "Sirius B once occupied the space our sun does"
Of course this wouldn't discredit them, this is just a very abstract belief (pending verification).
And actually, there is no true set or fixed positional velocity anyway (velocity is always relative) and someone could unrefutably say all the materials in the universe - apart from moving further apart from eachother - could be moving in a single overall direction relative to fixed arbitrary positions [or the "space" around them] -- or that the *space* around them is moving.
But them allegedly saying our sun is where another star that holds some sort of significance once was sounds like it could come out of any mythological tale and in my opinion is no reason to discount that these people looked in the sky anyway.
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