posted
I believe Egyptian has been deciphered. I think the guy in the video did not understand what he read. The Egyptian text illustrates that Egyptians of all social economic classes wrote Egyptian-not just the priests.
I will admit, I don't understand why people would accept someone using bad words while they lecture as a source of historical knowledge.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wasn't making fun. He has a method where he tries to show that the glyphs have not been deciphered. His cursing and so on are irrelevant to that
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Who can refute him should lay down his points for us to consider.
How could Shampollion have deciphered a secret language that had not been spoken for 2000 years, in the absence of any authoritative reference material?
The more contemporary world's of Greece and Rome could not decipher the language and this joke comes 1500 years after the fact and boom, he reinvents the Metu Neter.
Shampollion was a zionist freemasonica... fraud artist like Michelangelo...
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Seti has got his points.
Who can refute him should lay down his points for us to consider.
How could Shampollion have deciphered a secret language that had not been spoken for 2000 years, in the absence of any authoritative reference material?
The more contemporary world's of Greece and Rome could not decipher the language and this joke comes 1500 years after the fact and boom, he reinvents the Metu Neter.
Shampollion was a zionist freemasonica... fraud artist like Michelangelo...
The fact that the language was not spoken in 2000 years did not prevent it from being deciphered. The whole idea that Hieroglyphics were only known by the priests lacks any validity. We know it was not only used by the priest because inscriptions are found on different types of media, and not just in the Temples.
The key to deciphering ancient Egyptian was Coptic and a bilingual text. Using Coptic allowed Hieroglyphics to be deciphered.
We know Coptic is an African language and not Greek. The reason we know that it is an African language is because comparative linguistics shows its genetic relationship with many Niger-Congo languages. This verified the authenticity of Champollion's decipherment. Seti's failure to know African languages and comparative linguistics left him ignorant to the avenues one uses to check a decipherment.
See: Les Dialectes Coptes et Mandes by L. Homburger, Bull de Societe Linguistique Paris,1930. .
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Are referring to relatively ancient Copts as I thought contemporary Copts are of foreign ancestry?
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The problems with Setis hypothesis are the following:
1. The Rosetta Stone was a bilingual text
2. People could/can read Greek
3.Coptic is an African language, not Greek.
4. You can read the hieroglyphics using Coptic.
5.Egyptian hieroglyphics were not just written by priests so it was not a secret language
.
Rosetta stone might have contained a side by side panel of languages but nothing tells us that those texts were supposed to be translation of the Medu Neter text therein also found.
If Coptics could read Greek and Coptic was a written African language then why was no other work translated from Coptic to Greek in its time? Why were there no major translation of ancient Medu Neter into Coptic then into Greek? Like they did with the Hebrew/Babylonian bible? Why did they not produce a dictionary like existed between Latin and Greece? Remember the Septuagint Bible was a translation of so-called Hebrew/Babylonian Aramean into Greek. Why no such work respecting Medu Neter and Greek in Ptolemy's time?
Clyde, knowing how you argue that Berber is not an African language because of its germanic elements, how come you fail to use the same standard here. Coptic is a language clearly derived from Greek and yet you insist it is African because it has some minor African words. Why?
Clyde, in the time of the Coptics 2000 years ago, noone could read hieroglyphics. It was already a secret language. Even the Greek writers of the time so confirmed this. Why then do you claim that a Coptics person could read hieroglyphics as a result of his knowledge of Coptic?
Demotic was the commercial writing used by Egyptians. Hieroglyphics like Sanscrit (of India) was used only for mystic purposes and thus not known to the profane. Egyptians had three other more profane and common scripts over the thousands of years of civilization... Hieroglyphics was the most secretive.
Clyde, the copts had no knowledge of Medu Neter in their time and could neither read it nor write it. Why?
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Etymological Roots of Coptic Alphabets is not Hieroglypics but Greeks! So why are you saying that you can decipher Hieroglypics a sacred African-Ethiopian script with a Greek based writing system?
Remember there were no dictionary of hieroglypics to coptics; remember there were no major translated works from hieroglyphics to coptics in the ancient times. And remember the Coptics speakers could neither read nor understand Hieroglyphics in them times there. So what is your point Clyde?
The Coptic alphabet is the script used for writing the Coptic language. The repertoire of glyphs is based on the Greek alphabet augmented by letters borrowed from the Egyptian Demotic and is the first alphabetic script used for the Egyptian language. There are several Coptic alphabets, as the Coptic writing system may vary greatly among the various dialects and subdialects of the Coptic language.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] The problems with Setis hypothesis are the following:
4. You can read the hieroglyphics using Coptic.
The Rosetta Stone has three scripts hieroglyphs, Demotic script, and Ancient Greek.
This means you cannot read hieroglyphics using Coptic.
If that was the case there would be no need for the Rosetta stone to decipher the hieroglyphs
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The problems with Setis hypothesis are the following:
1. The Rosetta Stone was a bilingual text
2. People could/can read Greek
3.Coptic is an African language, not Greek.
4. You can read the hieroglyphics using Coptic.
5.Egyptian hieroglyphics were not just written by priests so it was not a secret language
.
Rosetta stone might have contained a side by side panel of languages but nothing tells us that those texts were supposed to be translation of the Medu Neter text therein also found.
If Coptics could read Greek and Coptic was a written African language then why was no other work translated from Coptic to Greek in its time? Why were there no major translation of ancient Medu Neter into Coptic then into Greek? Like they did with the Hebrew/Babylonian bible? Why did they not produce a dictionary like existed between Latin and Greece? Remember the Septuagint Bible was a translation of so-called Hebrew/Babylonian Aramean into Greek. Why no such work respecting Medu Neter and Greek in Ptolemy's time?
Clyde, knowing how you argue that Berber is not an African language because of its germanic elements, how come you fail to use the same standard here. Coptic is a language clearly derived from Greek and yet you insist it is African because it has some minor African words. Why?
Clyde, in the time of the Coptics 2000 years ago, noone could read hieroglyphics. It was already a secret language. Even the Greek writers of the time so confirmed this. Why then do you claim that a Coptics person could read hieroglyphics as a result of his knowledge of Coptic?
Demotic was the commercial writing used by Egyptians. Hieroglyphics like Sanscrit (of India) was used only for mystic purposes and thus not known to the profane. Egyptians had three other more profane and common scripts over the thousands of years of civilization... Hieroglyphics was the most secretive.
Clyde, the copts had no knowledge of Medu Neter in their time and could neither read it nor write it. Why?
I will try and answer your questions.
Rosetta stone might have contained a side by side panel of languages but nothing tells us that those texts were supposed to be translation of the Medu Neter text therein also found.
We can hypothesize that the languages could be translated into Medu Neter because all three of the languages were on the same document. If it was not meant to be read in all three languages they never would have made the text.
If Coptics could read Greek and Coptic was a written African language then why was no other work translated from Coptic to Greek in its time?
They would have not had to translate Coptic into Greek, because Coptic is the Egyptian language. It appears that you didn’t know that Greek and Coptic are two different languages. That’s why we have key Christian documents, like the Bible translated from Greek into Coptic
Why were there no major translation of ancient Medu Neter into Coptic then into Greek? Like they did with the Hebrew/Babylonian bible? Why did they not produce a dictionary like existed between Latin and Greece? Remember the Septuagint Bible was a translation of so-called Hebrew/Babylonian Aramean into Greek. Why no such work respecting Medu Neter and Greek in Ptolemy's time?
As noted above Coptic is Egyptian, so there was no need for a dictionary. Secondly, they translated the Septuagint Bible , because it was the major document for Christianity. In Ptolemy’s time the people wrote in Egyptian. The Egyptian religions were considered pagan. Beginning around 400 AD, the Non-Egyptian rulers began to shut down the pagan temples in Egypt, closure of the last pagan temples had taken place by the sixth century.
quote:
History relates how the early Christians destroyed all pagan objects of worship and disrupted images in accordance with the first Ten Commandments, when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, at the end of the 4th century. Saint ‘Shenuda’ in Upper Egypt assisted by the Copts monks (which agreed with him), decided to destroy the ancient temples and idols. Nevertheless, a return to images was necessary when people were not able to assimilate Christianity and its doctrine without the aid of visual means. Representations assisted the faithful in understanding the new religion and at the same time illustrated it. Al-Makrizi, the famous Arabic historian of the 14th century, mentioned that Butler states that it was the patriarch ‘Cyril’ the 24th pope who in 420 A.D. hung icons in the churches of Alexandria, first in the seat of patriarch and then in ail the other churches of Egypt [7].
Clyde, knowing how you argue that Berber is not an African language because of its germanic elements, how come you fail to use the same standard here. Coptic is a language clearly derived from Greek and yet you insist it is African because it has some minor African words. Why?
Where did you get the idea that Coptic is derived from Greek. The Coptic people just used the Greek characters to write their literature, just like today we can write Swahili or Hausa using our alphabet.
Clyde, in the time of the Coptics 2000 years ago, noone could read hieroglyphics. It was already a secret language. Even the Greek writers of the time so confirmed this. Why then do you claim that a Coptics person could read hieroglyphics as a result of his knowledge of Coptic?
2000 years ago the Coptics could read and write Hieroglyphics. Copt is equivalent to the word Egyptian and is derived from the Greek word ‘Aigyptos’. The Copt only stopped reading and writing Hieroglyphics when the pagan temples were closed and they adopted Christianity.
Demotic was the commercial writing used by Egyptians. Hieroglyphics like Sanscrit (of India) was used only for mystic purposes and thus not known to the profane. Egyptians had three other more profane and common scripts over the thousands of years of civilization... Hieroglyphics was the most secretive.
Sanscrit is not a secret language and it was not used for mystical purposes, as illustrated by the Rig Veda, which discusses the wars of the Arya. In fact, the Hindus did not have their own writing system. The Hindus used Nagari to write Sanscrit. Nagari, is based on Ge’ez writing.
Clyde, the copts had no knowledge of Medu Neter in their time and could neither read it nor write it. Why?
In summary, the Copts had knowledge of Medu Neter because the Copts were ‘Aigyptos’ or Egyptians so they knew how to write the hieroglyphics. They abandoned their own writing system to become great Christians, just like many Africans gave up their writing systems to use Arabic, after they became Muslims.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Clyde the letters in the Coptic script are based on Greek letters
the decipherment of hieroglyphs was done by using the Rosetta stone. The Rosetta stone has no Coptic on it.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Here is the other half of the story that barely gets told:
The Greek conquered Kmt when Alexander the Great chased out the old Persian colonial regime. They knew the Kememu people (black people of Kemit) as the Melanos or Melanopodes (Black feet people).
Alexandria quickly became the centre of the Greek colonial government and soon a unique creole (mixed Greek and local) culture emerged in that coastal city.
The Greeks sought to create a colonial outpost and settlement zone, so they changed the name of the new colonial territory to Egyptus, a fake demeaning name used to indicate their conquest.
The Greek settlers who had moved to Kemit in their thousands naturalized therein and started calling themselves, as well as their mixed offspring Egyptians.
This is similar to what you see today in the United States of today replacing the Aboriginal names, peoples and cultures of ancient America.
Because they could not read or write in the ancient language of the Gds medu neter, they created a fake writing script called Coptic which was based on Greek in terms of letters, and lexicon, and grammatical structure.
They spoke a mixed dialect of Greek, latin, Armenia, and the local Kemitian dialect of the Delta regions, and this eventually resulted in the patois called Coptic language which is still used today in liturgies of the Coptic Church.
Their Church was Greek based, steeped in Greek philosophy and liturgy. That Coptic Church violently suppressed the indigenous African spiritual expression that had then flowered in Egypt and was known as Gnosticism.
Gnosticism was a spiritual and political philosophy which preached equality, equal access to the divine, freedom from oppression, and ascendancy of ancient African norms and values. This was feared by the oppressive politically structured Greek and Roman Christian Churches which promoted inequality, political oppression, and Greek based values and norms.
You made my point with the quote below:
"History relates how the early Christians destroyed all pagan objects of worship and disrupted images in accordance with the first Ten Commandments, when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, at the end of the 4th century. Saint ‘Shenuda’ in Upper Egypt assisted by the Copts monks (which agreed with him), decided to destroy the ancient temples and idols. Nevertheless, a return to images was necessary when people were not able to assimilate Christianity and its doctrine without the aid of visual means. Representations assisted the faithful in understanding the new religion and at the same time illustrated it. Al-Makrizi, the famous Arabic historian of the 14th century, mentioned that Butler states that it was the patriarch ‘Cyril’ the 24th pope who in 420 A.D. hung icons in the churches of Alexandria, first in the seat of patriarch and then in ail the other churches of Egypt."
In the time of those colonial Metis people of Egyptus called Copts, the true meaning of the Hieroglyphics had been lost for generations. Ofcourse there were charlatans practising fakery and chalantry claiming that they could read medu neter. But these were mostly ineffective frauds. The true meaning of the language of the Gods was lost with the first Kingdom.
In the time of the Copts, thousands of ancient Kemitian artifacts were still ripped off and sold in the common market just like today. Charms and amulets were peddled by so called Priests. And there were those claiming special knowledge of the old scripts just like today.
Hieroglyhics are ideograms. The people that invented it were lost after the fall of the first kingdom. That is why, no subsequent replacement could match the power and grandeur of that first kingdom. This was well explained in the Kemitian mystery book known as Hermes Trismegistus or the Book of Imhotep.
The Copts are a mixed people, from Greece, Rome. Armenia, Georgia, and some local Egyptians. It is said today that neither the blood of the ancient Egyptians nor their language can be found anywhere today in Muslim, Coptic dominated land of Ta Meri, beside the Nile River.
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
Because they could not read or write in the ancient language of the Gds medu neter, they created a fake writing script called Coptic which was based on Greek in terms of letters, and lexicon, and grammatical structure.
But the words were ancient Egyptian words maintained from the oral tradition. They were Egyptian and spoke the Egyptian language.
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nope. Kemit had several languages over the 3000 years of recorded history.
It had been colonized by Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks and Romans. By the time of Roman and Christian colonization, it had been under continuous foreign rule for more than 1,000 years.
Foreign rule creates a discontinuity in culture, language and people.
Look at America, look at Arabia, look at Byzantine Rome or Turkey of today.
Land grabbers had been after Kemite for ever because it was stupendously rich, and wise and magical.
The Greeks most of all wanted to be pseudo-Kemitians. Egyptian wannabes, all of them. So they changed into Coptics, with their writing, their Church, their culture, and their adopted language, in their adopted city of Alexandria, where the majority population was always the Greek colonials.
Alexander the Greek swore that he was the long lost son of Osiris immediately he arrived at the ancient temple of Heliopolis.
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
You know how you will sometimes see a sign written in both English and Spanish? That's like the Rosetta stone. The Greeks were always a minority. Even in America there are Indians who speak the languages. The Egyptians spoke their own language, Later they wrote it using Greek letters plus Demotic elements and they converted to Christianity and made a bible written in Coptic. The Greeks were smart to use Egyptian customs in order not to have unrest for the rule ____________________________________
Translators of books of the Old Testament into Egyptian dialects were naturally made from the Alexandrian Greek version (Septuagint), and there is no reason to doubt that they were translated at as early a date as the Gospels and Epistles, if not indeed before them. Portions of the Old Testament exist in each Egyptian dialect
Stela dedicated by Ptolemy V to the bull Buchis
At the top of the stela the whole scene is dominated by a winged sun disk. Below this is a scarab, and the emblem of Osiris, flanked by two uraeus serpents. Two lateral images show Anubis.
In the middle we can see Buchis, and in front of him the King Ptolemy V offers the bull the sekhet, the symbol of the fields
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Here is the other half of the story that barely gets told:
The Greek conquered Kmt when Alexander the Great chased out the old Persian colonial regime. They knew the Kememu people (black people of Kemit) as the Melanos or Melanopodes (Black feet people).
Alexandria quickly became the centre of the Greek colonial government and soon a unique creole (mixed Greek and local) culture emerged in that coastal city.
The Greeks sought to create a colonial outpost and settlement zone, so they changed the name of the new colonial territory to Egyptus, a fake demeaning name used to indicate their conquest.
The Greek settlers who had moved to Kemit in their thousands naturalized therein and started calling themselves, as well as their mixed offspring Egyptians.
This is similar to what you see today in the United States of today replacing the Aboriginal names, peoples and cultures of ancient America.
Because they could not read or write in the ancient language of the Gds medu neter, they created a fake writing script called Coptic which was based on Greek in terms of letters, and lexicon, and grammatical structure.
They spoke a mixed dialect of Greek, latin, Armenia, and the local Kemitian dialect of the Delta regions, and this eventually resulted in the patois called Coptic language which is still used today in liturgies of the Coptic Church.
Their Church was Greek based, steeped in Greek philosophy and liturgy. That Coptic Church violently suppressed the indigenous African spiritual expression that had then flowered in Egypt and was known as Gnosticism.
Gnosticism was a spiritual and political philosophy which preached equality, equal access to the divine, freedom from oppression, and ascendancy of ancient African norms and values. This was feared by the oppressive politically structured Greek and Roman Christian Churches which promoted inequality, political oppression, and Greek based values and norms.
You made my point with the quote below:
"History relates how the early Christians destroyed all pagan objects of worship and disrupted images in accordance with the first Ten Commandments, when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, at the end of the 4th century. Saint ‘Shenuda’ in Upper Egypt assisted by the Copts monks (which agreed with him), decided to destroy the ancient temples and idols. Nevertheless, a return to images was necessary when people were not able to assimilate Christianity and its doctrine without the aid of visual means. Representations assisted the faithful in understanding the new religion and at the same time illustrated it. Al-Makrizi, the famous Arabic historian of the 14th century, mentioned that Butler states that it was the patriarch ‘Cyril’ the 24th pope who in 420 A.D. hung icons in the churches of Alexandria, first in the seat of patriarch and then in ail the other churches of Egypt."
In the time of those colonial Metis people of Egyptus called Copts, the true meaning of the Hieroglyphics had been lost for generations. Ofcourse there were charlatans practising fakery and chalantry claiming that they could read medu neter. But these were mostly ineffective frauds. The true meaning of the language of the Gods was lost with the first Kingdom.
In the time of the Copts, thousands of ancient Kemitian artifacts were still ripped off and sold in the common market just like today. Charms and amulets were peddled by so called Priests. And there were those claiming special knowledge of the old scripts just like today.
Hieroglyhics are ideograms. The people that invented it were lost after the fall of the first kingdom. That is why, no subsequent replacement could match the power and grandeur of that first kingdom. This was well explained in the Kemitian mystery book known as Hermes Trismegistus or the Book of Imhotep.
The Copts are a mixed people, from Greece, Rome. Armenia, Georgia, and some local Egyptians. It is said today that neither the blood of the ancient Egyptians nor their language can be found anywhere today in Muslim, Coptic dominated land of Ta Meri, beside the Nile River.
I agree the Copts are a mixed people. That has nothing to do with the language they speak. Many Turks in Egypt speak Arabic today. The Moors and North Africans were originally Black, but due to mixing with white women the rulers of North Africa are predominately "white" today. But the "white" North Africans continue to speak Arabic and Berber languages.
.
.
As a result, although the Copts are mixed today, has nothing to do with the Egyptian language they speak.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Nope. Kemit had several languages over the 3000 years of recorded history.
It had been colonized by Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks and Romans. By the time of Roman and Christian colonization, it had been under continuous foreign rule for more than 1,000 years.
Foreign rule creates a discontinuity in culture, language and people.
Look at America, look at Arabia, look at Byzantine Rome or Turkey of today.
Land grabbers had been after Kemite for ever because it was stupendously rich, and wise and magical.
The Greeks most of all wanted to be pseudo-Kemitians. Egyptian wannabes, all of them. So they changed into Coptics, with their writing, their Church, their culture, and their adopted language, in their adopted city of Alexandria, where the majority population was always the Greek colonials.
Alexander the Greek swore that he was the long lost son of Osiris immediately he arrived at the ancient temple of Heliopolis.
Granted, " Foreign rule creates a discontinuity in culture, language and people", but Egypt was always a polyglot nation, which was made up of Blacks speaking various languages and practicing varied cultures and religions. The varied people living in Egypt, made ancient Egyptian a lingua franca to unite the country.
The Copts maintained Egyptian because it was their native language, that is why Coptic is related to African language--not a dialect of Greek.
You make valid points that explain why the Greeks learned Egyptian. They learned Egyptian so they could be like the Ancient Egyptians. You wrote yourself that: "Alexander the Greek swore that he was the long lost son of Osiris immediately he arrived at the ancient temple of Heliopolis. "
Greek was also spoken in ancient Egypt, but we know that until the rise of Christianity, the principal language spoken in Egypt was ancient Egyptian.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
Hieroglyhics are ideograms. The people that invented it were lost after the fall of the first kingdom. That is why, no subsequent replacement could match the power and grandeur of that first kingdom. This was well explained in the Kemitian mystery book known as Hermes Trismegistus or the Book of Imhotep.
Egyptian hieroglyphs are not ideograms.Egyptian hieroglyphs are stylized picture of an object representing a word, syllable, or sound.
Secondly, Hermes Trismegistus was the religion of the Greco-Egyptians--not a native Egyptian religion. Most researchers claim that Hermes Trismegistus represents the syncretic combination of the Greek god Hermes and the Egyptian god Thoth.
Why do you believe that Egyptian civilization was lost after the fall of the first kingdom?
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Hyksos, which means "ruler(s) of the foreign countries" were a group of Western Asians who seized control of Lower Egypt during a moment of weakness... This was the first time in recorded history that ancient Egypt was conquered by a foreign invader. Until this time, ancient Kemet had experienced an unprecedented nearly 2,000 years of independent, African rule.
After that period, Egypt began a slow spiral into the zone of deterioration and eventual cultural dead and genocide of its people.
The greatest and most spectacular pyramids were built in the first Kingdom. The foundations of ethics and morality, religion, the physical sciences, astronomy, celestial sciences, music, medicine, law, governance, formal education etc were created by indigenous Africa inside Africa, there in Kemet.
These inventions and discoveries were stultified with the fall of the old kingdom. The splendour and greatness of the old kingdom never returned on the same scale in the succeeding regimes.
Some scholars believe that the knowledge of the gods - the Neteru, of the language of the gods Medu Neter, of rituals, rites and righteousness were lost for good. the secrets of science and metaphysics got lost after the old kingdom.
Many of the original people left from the Nile Region to inner Africa for better security. These people took with them their knowledge and their culture. Kemet grew lesser as a result of this exodus.
In conclusion, it appears the high culture was lost after the fall of the old kingdom. And it never came back until the foreigners completely destroyed Kemet, its Gods and its temples. What came after the old kingdom were puny attempts to recapture the golden age.
But youth once lost may not be regained.
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
The reason why lecturers such as Sara Sueten Seti have a larger base of followers than most of the "thinkers" on forums like these is because his thesis is not centered around the question mark of the descent that Africans and dispora have from the Nile Valley. They jump right into the spiritual legacy that we carry with the full acknowledgment that these are our ancestors. The were the black or white game is not in any way shape or form entertained as on platforms like this.
Posts: 348 | From: Atlanta | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
The black/white question was answered long ago, but whites keep refuting and Negroes keep reacting.
Examining the past is only useful for honouring ancestry, learning from mistakes, and moving into the future with a better life plan. Otherwise, it becomes just another an exercise of living in the syndrome.
-------------------- Selenium gives real life and true reality Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Freemason book, Look To The East, proves that the Greeks not only did not speak Egyptian, but also sent many spies to the Egyptian priests attempting to learn the secrets of the Egyptian mysteries.
In the story, A mixed race man, Hiram Abiff, is said to witness three of these spies as they tortured a priest to get him to reveal his secrets before killing him. Abif was discovered and also killed by them.
Two of the spies died and one was caught, tortured, castrated and buried alive by the Egyptian priests.
Four-five years ago, I made a thread here on ES about an article and corpse discovered in Egypt. The corpse was of a foreigner who had been castrated, buried alive and matched the description of the story told in Look To The East.
quote:Originally posted by Akachi: The reason why lecturers such as Sara Sueten Seti have a larger base of followers than most of the "thinkers" on forums like these is because his thesis is not centered around the question mark of the descent that Africans and dispora have from the Nile Valley. They jump right into the spiritual legacy that we carry with the full acknowledgment that these are our ancestors. The were the black or white game is not in any way shape or form entertained as on platforms like this.
Have the hieroglyphics been deciphered or not?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Solon, Pythagoras, and Socrates all went to school for several decades in Kemet. They must have learned to speak one or two Egyptian languages in that period. They also wrote many books. They copied many Egyptian texts. But they could only read Demotic, the book of the masses.
In none of the books written by either Solo, Pythagoras or Socrates did any ever claim to have deciphered or translated the Medu neter (the book of the Gods). Why?
Because they did not have the knowledge even then.
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Solon, Pythagoras, and Socrates all went to school for several decades in Kemet. They must have learned to speak one or two Egyptian languages in that period. They also wrote many books. They copied many Egyptian texts. But they could only read Demotic, the book of the masses.
In none of the books written by either Solo, Pythagoras or Socrates did any ever claim to have deciphered or translated the Medu neter (the book of the Gods). Why?
Because they did not have the knowledge even then.
1) If they translated Egyptian books they had to know Medu neter.
2) Why would they claim to have deciphered Medu neter when they had learned Egyptian during their studies?
3)Demotic was just a cursive form of Egyptian, like Hieratic. The Greeks also knew Hieratic, "priestly" Egyptian.
As a result, knowledge of Demotic allowed Champollion to decipher ancient Egyptian.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
No Clyde, none of the Greek boys could read Medu Neter. That is a well known fact. If they had read and translated hieroglypics then it certainly would not have been lost, since those translations would have served as timeless references. No such translation has been found since the 5th century AD which is why something as tenuous as the Rosetta stone became all important to the fakers.
Did you know that for hundreds of years different nations claimed they could read the medu neter based on different methodologies resulting in completely different translations?
Some Greek, Arab and European charlatans have claimed at one time or the other that they could read Medu Neter based on one method or the other. Some interpreted the ideograms from studying the depicted actions.
"Many people have attempted to decipher the Kemetic scripts since the 5th century AD, when Horapollo provided explanations of nearly two hundred glyphs... Other decipherment attempts were made in the 9th and 10th by Arab historians Dhul-Nun al-Misri and Ibn Wahshiyya, and in the 17th century by Athanasius Kircher. These attempts were all based on the assumption that the hieroglyphs represented ideas and not sounds of a particular language."
Shampollion's method is just another desperate attempt to decipher the words of the Gods by the non initiates.
It will go the way of the rest when the west realises it has been conned by the masonicas....
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Solon, Pythagoras, and Socrates all went to school for several decades in Kemet. They must have learned to speak one or two Egyptian languages in that period. They also wrote many books. They copied many Egyptian texts. But they could only read Demotic, the book of the masses.
In none of the books written by either Solo, Pythagoras or Socrates did any ever claim to have deciphered or translated the Medu neter (the book of the Gods). Why?
Because they did not have the knowledge even then.
1) If they translated Egyptian books they had to know Medu neter.
2) Why would they claim to have deciphered Medu neter when they had learned Egyptian during their studies?
3)Demotic was just a cursive form of Egyptian, like Hieratic. The Greeks also knew Hieratic, "priestly" Egyptian.
As a result, knowledge of Demotic allowed Champollion to decipher ancient Egyptian.
"It is an error to view hieratic as a derivative of hieroglyphic writing. Indeed, the earliest texts from Egypt are produced with ink and brush, with no indication their signs are descendants of hieroglyphs. True monumental hieroglyphs carved in stone did not appear until the 1st Dynasty, well after hieratic had been established as a scribal practice." -- Goedicke 1988:vii–viii.
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
You are correct hieratic is not derived from hieroglyphic Egyptian, and sometimes appear on Dynastic pottery marks together. .
.
The first syllabic writing system of Africans was the Thinite script. This writing was used first by Blacks in Nubia, like the Niger-Congo people who migrated out of this region into the rest of Africa.
The Thinite script provides many of the signs that are included in later scripts used by Africans.
In Nubia, Black Africans were using Thinite symbols before the rise of Egypt to record their ideas and report on important events.
This writing was later used by Africans to write inscriptions throughout Middle Africa.
The Egyptians invented three scripts: hieroglyphic, hieratic and demotic. These scripts were used by the Egyptians for thousands of years.
The Egyptian hieroglyphic script was confined mainly to monuments. The hieratic writing was a simplified form of the hieroglyphics, used for day-to-day business for almost three millennia. The Egyptian scripts were borrowed by other people in the Middle East, especially in the Sinai. The Protosinaitic script, was derived from Egyptian prototypes. It was this writing which was used by the Phoenicians and Greeks to form the alphabet we presently used.
Many Egyptian pottery signs agree with the Demotic script. The demotic script is the only Egyptian script that was used by just about every Egyptian. This writing was confined to ostraca and papyri.
The demotic script was used from the Seventh century B.C. to the Fifth century A.D. The demotic records were used by commercial, legal and administrative sectors of the Egyptian society.
Demotic signs were borrowed by other scripts. Six of the Coptic signs were derived from demotic, and many of the Meroitic signs are of demotic origin.
The second oldest inscription in the Proto-Saharan script comes from Gebel Sheikh Suleiman in Nubia. The Gebel Sheikh Suleiman relief has been discussed by many scholars such as Williams (1987) and Trigger (1980).
The Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription is found near Buhen, Nubia. It is carved on a sandstone rock. This inscription was probably written by the A-Group people who helped found ancient Egypt. The ancestors of the Egyptians or Kemites originally lived in Nubia. The Nubian origin of Egyptian civilization is supported by the discovery of artifacts by archaeologists from the University of Chicago's Oriental Institute, at Qustul (William 1987; Winters 1994).
It is interesting to note that the Egyptians took the Thinite signs and invented the Hieroglyphic and Hieratic signs.
In the Egyptian pottery signs we often find hieroglyphic Egyptians and hieratic signs which are clearly Thinite in origin. The fact that we can read these signs indicate that Egyptian writing has been deciphered.
This is made clear when you examine the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription. Williams (1987) and Trigger (1980) have failed to discuss the entire inscription on the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman relief. These scholars ignore the Proto-Saharan inscription, and describe only, the relief from left to right as follows: a serekh topped by a falcon looking over a victorious battlefield, sacred bark and a bound prisoner .
But in reality we find more than these figures on the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription which appears to date back to the A-Group period of Nubia over 5000 years ago. This is obvious when we examine the photograph of the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman relief.
From left to right on this relief we see a falcon on a serekh sign surmounting a house/ palace. In front of this village/ palace scene we see a prisoner bound by Stj bow ( the sign for the Steu). Facing the prisoner bound by Stj bow ( the sign for the Steu). Facing the prisoner bound by the stj sign we see a bird over a circle with the letter X inside. Besides this scene we have another bird setting a top the letter X within the circle sign facing a victorious battle scene which includes a man bound to a sacred bark.
Over the sacred bark we find 21 Proto-Saharan signs. These signs agree with the Egyptian pottery symbols. The Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription is an obituary written about a king called Fe .
As noted above Homburger found that the Manding languages are closely related to the Coptic language. Using the Manding language we can read the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription.
Reading from right to left we read: 1. i gba lu 2. fe kye nde 2 1/2. ka i lu 3. fe fe tu 4. be yu su (su su) tu 5. su se lu gbe 6. po gbe tu
Below is the translation of the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription:
"1. Thou family habitation, hold (it) upright. 2. Fe's estate (is on) the shore (of the watercourse). 2 1/2. Cut thou (sepulchre) habitation for the family (here). 3. Fe preferred to be obedient to the order. 4. Lay low the (celebrity) in the large hemisphere tomb (and) offer up libations that merit upright virtue.6. Pure righteousness (is) King (Fe)."
This King Fe, of Gebel Sheikh Suleiman, may relate to Pharoah Pe-Hor (Throne of Horus) since in African languages /f/ and /p/ are often interchangeable. It is interesting to note that there is an inscription on a storage jar from Cemetery L of Qustul, Nubia that reads Pe-Hor (Williams 1987, p. 164). This Pe-Hor may be the Fe, of the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription.
The Thinite symbols and symbols on Gebel inscription are all dated to the A-Group .Bruce Williams in The A-Group Royal Cemetery at Qustul: Cemetery L (1987), has noted that the prisoner on the Qustul incense burner is analogous to the bound prisoner on the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman.
The Steu had the same funeral customs, pottery, musical instruments and related artifacts of the Egyptians. Williams (1987, p.173,182) believes that the Qustul Pharaohs are the Egyptian Rulers referred to as the Red Crown rulers in ancient Egyptian documents.
Dr. Williams (1987) gave six reasons why he believes that the Steu of Qustul founded Egyptian or Kemite civilization:
1. Direct progression of royal complex designs from
Qustul to Hierakonpolis to Abydos.
2. Egyptian objects in Naqada III a-b tombs
3. No royal tombs in Lower and Upper Egypt.
4. Pharoanic monuments that refer to conflict in Upper Egypt.
5. Inscriptions of the ruler Pe-Hor, are older than Iry-Hor of Abydos.
6. The ten rulers of Qustul, one at Hierakonpolis and three at Abydos corresponds to the "historical" kings of late Naqada period.
The Thinite writing, Gebel Sheikh Suleiman, and Qustul insense burner highlight the antiquity of writing in Egypt. The fact that the prisoner is bound by a Stj (Steu), the authors of this relief were the A-Group people.
In summary, Pharoah Fe, of Gebel Sheikh Suleiman, may relate to Pharoah Pe-Hor (Throne of Horus) since in African languages /f/ and /p/ are often interchangeable.The inscription on a storage jar from Cemetery L of Qustul, Nubia that reads Pe-Hor (Williams 1987, p. 164). This Pe-Hor may be the Fe, of the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription.
Below is the Pe-Hor inscription.
. The ability to read the Gebel Sheikh Suleiman inscription and find mention of the same Egyptian pharaoh makes it clear that Egyptian hieroglyphics have been deciphered.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chiekh Anta Diop is one of the greatest Black Scholars of the late 20th Century. Using the Egyptian language diop was able to prove that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans related to Africans living in West Africa.
Although some people believe Egyptian has never been deciphered, Chiekh Anta Diop has made important contributions to linguistic theory in relation to African historiography. Diop's work illustrates that it is important for scholars to maintain a focus on the historical and linguistic factors which define the "personnalitè culturelle africaine" .
To define Egyptian and and Paleo-African culture , Diop used the Egyptian language. Being able to read ancient Egyptian allowed Diop to gain keen insight into Egyptian civilization.
Language is the sanctum sanctorum of Diop's Afrocentric historical method. The Diopian view of historiography combines the research of linguistics, history and psychology to interpret the cultural unity of African people. Always at the base of these studies was the Egyptian language.
Diop has used comparative and historical linguistics to illuminate the Unity of African civilization. Diop (1977, xxv) has noted that
"The process for the evolution of African languages is clearly apparent; from a far we (have) the idea that Wolof is descendant by direct filiation to ancient Egyptian, but the Wolof, Egyptian and other African languages (are) derived from a common mother language that one can call Paleo-African, the common mother language that one can call Paleo-African, the common African or the Negro- African of L. Homburger or of Th. Obenga."
To deny the decipherment of the Egyptian language is to deny that Egyptians were Black Africans who practiced an African civilization. Since it is knowledge of the Egyptian language which allows us to prove this truth.
posted
Great thread Lioness sometime post video of Afrocentric teachers like Shakka Ahmose and Sara Sutten Seti. Afrocentric Youtube videos most of the times are to long. Working people dont have time to seat for two hours to watch a Youtube video. I think a Youtube video should be one hour long and break down in three 20 minutes parts.
Let me give in that thread the alternative historians point of view on the Egyptian language and hieroglyph to show the different point of view. According to symbologist Michael Tsarion the language of the Ancient Egyptian Priest was Hebrew. There were two languages in Ancient Egypt the language of the masses and the language of the priests.
A NEW LOOK AT OLD WORDS HEBREW The word 'Ibri, "Hebrew," occurs some thirty times in the Bible, a small number compared with the 2,500 appearances of "Israel." The two terms are not synonymous - Joseph M. Modrzejewski (The Jews of Egypt: From Rameses II to Emperor Hadrian) The word Hebrew did not relate to a particular race but to the wise ones or elders known as the Ibaru or Ibri of Ireland and later of Egypt. The ancient name for the land of Ireland was Hibernia, and the ancient Irish were known as Hibernians. This is a Irish word and it also denoted those Gaelic tribes, descended from the ancient Irish, which temporarily inhabited Scythia and Spain. Spain's old name was Iberia. In short, the original Hebrews were elders from the land of Ireland. They were an ancient caste of adepts who venerated the stars and zodiac and who had stellar churches and centers of learning throughout the world. In Eastern lands they and their disciples were court instructors. They served as educators and advisers to a many foreign kings and princes. They were also counselors to the pharaohs. In the Old Testament tale of the patriarch Joseph who allegedly rose from the status of jail-bird to adviser of pharaoh, we see a corrupted vestige of the reality of which we speak. From modern researches we can even go so far as to speculate that the Ibaru were themselves pharaohs in Egypt. New revelations confirm and reinforce the theories of largely misinterpreted and forgotten geniuses such as Sigmund Freud, L. A. Waddell, Comyns Beaumont, and Conor MacDari.
The word Ibaru is the origin of "Hebrew." The letter "H" often meant the same as the English "the" or French "le." In this case, the term Hebrew is correctly rendered "the Ebaru" or "the Ibaru."
In our view this term has been deliberately misinterpreted. This is because of the similarity between the words Ibaru and Apiru, (or in Egyptian Apir). The word Apiru can be found in Sumerian, Assyrio-Babylonian, and Egyptian texts. It referred to a wanderer, an immigrant, or an undesirable person or group of people. It was used to denote people living within the borders of a sovereign country but who had become a disturbance or nuisance, and who were not wanted. Apiru may have come from the root abr (or obr) which refers to passers by, travelers, or those without a homeland. Apiru is also thought to have referred to farmers or shepherds. This connotation allowed some scholars to connect the Hebrews with the "Hyksos" people of Egypt. There is great debate over the origins of the Hyksos and little consensus among scholars as to their true identity. For more than a hundred years, orientalists have likened the word 'Ibri' to the terms 'Apiru,' found in Egyptian texts, and Habiru, its cuneiform equivalent. These terms, signifying "dusty" or "dust-covered," apply to western Semitic populations spread over a vast territory, extending from Egypt to Mesopotamia; they were semi-nomads roaming around the fringes of the desert, on the marches of sedentary society. Their identity is obscure; it may be approximated by an anthroponymic reference to a national divinity, 'Apir-Baal,' "the dusty one of Baal," or 'Apir-El,' "the dusty one of El." By vigorously sifting the "dust", these marginal people could occasionally be put to use and absorbed into the local population as workers or soldiers. But "civilized" society still looked upon them with fear and distrust - Joseph Meleze Modrzejewski (The Jews of Egypt: From Rameses II to Emperor Hadrian)
Hebrew means "one who is from across the river." Rivers were often the boundaries of ancient nations, and one from across the river meant, simply, an alien. In every country of the ancient world, the Hebrews were known as aliens. The word also, in popular usage, meant "one who should not be trusted until he has identified himself." Hebrew in all ancient literature was written as "Habiru". This word appears frequently in the Bible and in Egyptian literature. In the Bible, Habiru is used interchangeably with "sagaz", meaning "cutthroat". In all of Egyptian literature, wherever the word Habiru appears, it is written with the word "sagaz" written beside it. Thus the Egyptians always wrote of the Jews as "the cutthroat bandits from across the river" - Eustace Mullins (New History of the Jews)
The great Egyptian scholar, C. J. Gadd, noted in his book, The Fall of Nineveh, 1923, "Habiru is written with an ideogram...sa-gaz...signifying 'cut-throats'" - ibid
They looked on the Jews as being worth only the most menial of tasks. Leprosy was rampant among the Jewish people and the disease was considered to be displeasing to the Egyptian gods. So, the Oracle of Ammon ordered the Pharaoh to purify the land by driving the Jews out into the wilderness - Stephen Knapp (Proofs of Vedic Culture’s Global Existence) In Egyptian, the word Eebre, (Hebrew Eber) referred to rivers and to water. The reference here was most probably to the Nile, and to the schools of the Hebrew which existed along that great river. With the "H" added to the beginning of the word, we have "the Eber," that is, "the men of the river." Rivers were always considered sacred to the ancients, and were connected to esoteric knowledge. The Rhine river, for instance, takes its name from the Germanic word Rune, meaning "sacred knowledge," or "source of wisdom." Men of the River, therefore, referred to those of the "Underground Stream" of hermetic knowledge. In the Papyrus of Hunefer in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, we see Osiris enthroned upon the sacred river, or pool of water, from which arises the papyrus plant with the four sons of Horus. …the Arabic language, in which all the roots of Hebrew and Chaldee words are found, was a language before the before the existing systems of the Hebrew, Greek, Sanskrit, and Deva Nageri letters were invented - Godfrey Higgins The so-called "Hebrew" alphabet is, therefore, the Ibaru alphabet of the Elders. It is not Jewish. As we have shown throughout our revisionist work, the ancient tropes and customs of the ancient Egyptian Amenists and Irish Druids were flagrantly appropriated by their destroyers. This was also the case with the twenty two letters of the ancient esoteric alphabet. This fact has been proven by author Tony Bushby. In his masterly book The Bible Fraud, Bushby reveals the origin of the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. According to Bushby, the shape of each letter derives from the serpentine shapes cast by the sun when passing through a crystalline capstone that once sat on top of the great pyramid at Giza. Indeed, the Sumerians referred to the great pyramid as the "House of the Serpent."
he serpentine shapes formed by sunlight passing through a crystal pyramidion. The official line on the origins of Hebrew is finally busted. ...learned critics have shown that the Bible names of angels, such as Gabriel, Uriel, Raphael, Michael, Satan, etc., are purely Chaldean or Persian! And this is confirmed by the Talmud of Jerusalem, which says expressly that the Jews borrowed the names of the angels from the Babylonians. Even the name Israel is not a Hebrew but a Chaldee word, as was fully explained by Philo Judaeus, when on his embassy to the Emperor Caligula - Logan Mitchell (Religion in the Stars, or Mythology Unveiled, 1881)
Peree-t 'descendantlroyal house (Igbo opara - 'son');
Satu 'shine down' (Igbo satuo 'shine down' -Orlu dialect);
Shishah 'six' (Igob 'ishi ishie' 'bundles of six);
Tau 'glorify' (Igbo too 'glorify' Orlu dialect);
Hru 'the day dawns' (Igbo horo 'the dawns');
Xerkert (pronounced kirkir) 'pieces' (Igbo kirikiri 'pieces' - Orlu dialect. [Egyptian transitive --k 'you' (Igbo transitive --k 'you' as in si ku -'say to you' - Nsukka dialect]);
Mer 'water', Igbo mmiri - 'water';
Ma'at 'Wisdom and Divine Law' (Igbo ma etu -'Knowledge ofDivine law';
Makkes -'a scepter for cutting away evil forces' (Igbo mma aka eshi ('sacred knife of the Eshi');
Efodj (dj is pronounced chi) 'sacred garrnent worn by priests while perforrning rites on the dead'(Igbo Efe chi 'deity's sacred garrnent');
Ssedjem 'wooden poles supporting the Egyptian Ark' (Igbo osisi chi m-'deity's sacred wood').
As the Egyptians recognized nine original great gods, so too they identified nine parts of a person (Igbo person Igbo highest sacred number is also nine - the number of Great God Ele, the master of all Shaman/Afa):
1. The physical Body - Kha (Igbo - Akwa 'cloth of the Spirit' - origin ofAkwa Nshi) 2. The heart - ab (Igbo - obi 'heart') 3. The shadow - khaibat (Igbo akwa obi - 'Cloth ofthe heart') 4. The name -ren 5. The soul -ab (Igbo obi - 'inner person') 6. The mind -akh/chi -(Igbo chi - 'divine mind') 7. The spirit-body -sahu (Igbo isi ahu - 'head of the body'/Eshi ahu - 'God in Man') 8. The spirit -ka (Igbo Kwa/Nkwo - imrnortals) 9. The Power -Sekhem/hike (Igbo -isi ikem -'source of my power' / ike-power).
The hieroglyph for ren (name) is an open mouth speaking over the waters implying that the primeval creative force of God at Eden is tied with one' s name. In Igbo ren's equivalent is reh which means to invoke/to pass a divine verdict'.
Kemson_Reloaded writes: This is only a fraction of all the Igbo words and phrases which have been found genetically matching Black Africans languages/dialects spoken in Ancient Kemet. Clearly, the Igbo language is an extremely old, parental-ancestral language. The excellent Anthropological Linguistic research performed by team from the Catherine Acholonu Research Center for African Studies (CARC) has revealed far more than expected and produced irrefutable and demonstrative linguistic proof that the Igbo language was fully spoken in Ancient Kemet. These anthropological results are likely to be at the dismay of Euro-Western specialists and detractors of Black African history and such dismay warrants only disregard. But what cannot be ignored that the fact that Euro-Western attempts in translating Ancient Black African tonal languages is littered with errors. These errors can be attributed to the likes of Champollion Figeac and Joseph Greenberg(the Khazar, so-called Jewish specialist). Since these ancient Black African languages are still being spoken by Black Africans today these error are corrected as part of the Anthropological research process.
According to David Imhotep book The First Americans Were Africans and Frank Joseph The Lost Colonies of the Ancient America the Native American Mic Mac hieroglyph has similarity with the Egyptian hieroglyph.
he case of the Micmac hieroglyphs: a powerful blow to isolationist theories
Written languages among Native American peoples were very rare. A notable exception, however, was the written language of the Micmac people (commonly spelled Mi'kmaq today, with the sound "mi" representing the definite article in their language, and the word Mi'kmaq indicating "The Family" or "The People," according to some sources).
The Micmac written language, which contains remarkable similarities to ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics, was preserved in extensive records by a French missionary named Pierre Maillard (1710 - 1762). The fact that many symbols in this writing system resemble so strongly the sacred hieroglyphs of ancient Egypt causes proponents of the isolationist hegemony varying levels of discomfort, frustration, and defensiveness, which usually manifests itself in the form of scornful criticism of anyone who suggests there may have been some ancient connection between citizens of ancient Old World civilizations and the Indians of the Americas.
If the Micmac script were the only isolated data point suggesting ancient contact across the great oceans, then such skepticism would perhaps be warranted. However, as we have seen with just a few of the many possible examples we have outlined on this blog, there is extensive other evidence which should make those who deny the possibility of ancient cultural contact realize that they are actually the ones who are on shaky ground (see for example here and here).
We have demonstrated that mankind appears to have possessed advanced scientific knowledge at an incredibly early date -- for instance, the design of Stonehenge and the pyramids of Giza indicate knowledge of the size and shape of the earth, as well as of mathematical concepts such as pi and phi and the subtle astronomical phenomenon of precession. It is not surprising to find that civilizations which understood such concepts could sail across the oceans (or, perhaps the converse, that civilizations which could sail across the oceans knew the size and shape of the earth, etc).
Numerous researchers have proposed that the ancient Phoenicians, Chinese and Celts may all have had the capability and inclination to cross the Atlantic and the Pacific, and may have done so somewhat regularly. In Before Columbus, Dr. Samuel D. Marble has suggested that the Egyptians (with their superior knowledge of the stars and of the size and shape of the earth) may have joined with the Phoenicians (with their superior capabilities as shipbuilders and sailors) in a sort of happy marriage, "a partnership that benefited both people, and in this case that benefit was substantial" (119). If there were Egyptians present on Phoenician voyages of discovery and trade with the Americas, it is entirely possible that the hieroglyphs of the Micmac, who lived among the excellent sea-landings of Nova Scotia (see map below) were influenced by these ancient voyagers.
Professor Barry Fell (1917 - 1994) published some persuasive side-by-side analyses of the Micmac writing system with that of the ancient Egyptians in his controversial 1976 work, America BC: Ancient Settlers in the New World. There, he illustrates the hieroglyphs recorded by the eighteenth-century missionary Father Maillard next to the hieroglyphs that he maintains would be the Egyptian counterparts to the same words. Some of these comparisons are reproduced on the web here (with the text translated into Italian, but the Micmac and Egyptian comparisons still apparent to readers of any tongue).
On page 3 of that web document, the text for Psalm 116 (Non nobis domine) is reproduced from the Micmac writing recorded by Father Maillard, along with Barry Fell's suggested Egyptian hieroglyphs for the same words. This line-by-line comparison can be found in America BC on page 254.
Later, on page 5 of the web document, another image from Fell is reproduced, showing the similarities of Micmac and ancient hieroglyphs for various words or concepts. This page can be found in America BC on page 255.
Those who oppose the idea of the ability of ancient civilizations to sail the deep oceans argue that Father Maillard must have invented this language for the Micmac, in order to enable them to record the doctrines of Christianity. Why he would use ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs rather than the Latin alphabet is a bit of a problem for this theory; it is usually asserted that this writing system was introduced by the missionaries, or that they modified an existing system of writing and deliberately made it look Egyptian because Egyptian hieroglyphs were all the rage during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries (although they would not be translated until the famous deciphering of the Rosetta Stone by Champollion in 1822.
Typical of the arguments of the detractors is this essay published on the web, which declares as its goal "to examine Fell's claims of discernable ancient Egyptian and other North African languages and scripts in foreign petroglyphs, markings, writings, and the like, and to show a pattern of poor scholarly standards." On that page, the skeptical author advances the thesis that "It's not unreasonable to conclude that the Mi'kmaq - Recollet writing system is often called 'hieroglyphic' because Le Clerq [another French missionary who preceded Maillard] was familiar with the idea of Egyptian hieroglyphs as 'sacred carvings' and applied the term to reflect a holiness associated with the writing of Catholic material in his new Native American orthography."
This hypothesis is completely speculative, suggesting that a Catholic missionary would believe that the use of Egyptian hieroglyphics (which he could not decipher but found to be fascinating) somehow attributed "holiness" to his attempts to record Psalms and other writings for the Micmac people.
Similar criticisms are found on the Wikipedia page for "Mi'kmaq hieroglyphic writing," where it is argued that "Comparison with the actual Egyptian hieroglyphics shows that Fell's claims have significant shortcomings." The Wikipedia page criticizes Fell's analysis of the following hieroglyphs:
In the Wikipedia entry, Fell's analysis of the first symbol is criticized because, "The Micmac glyph cited by Fell appears not to be an Egyptian Hieroglyph, but rather the Christian symbol Globus cruciger with the Earth (a crossed circle) surmounted by a cross."
His analysis of the second symbol is criticized because, "The Micmac glyph cited by Fell appears to be an ordinary pentagram star used for 'heaven'; no connection to Egypt is necessary for the Micmac sign to make sense in this context."
His analysis of the third symbol is criticized because, "The Míkmaq msit 'all' (not 'full'?) is not drawn accurately; it is a large equilateral triangle made up of horizontal lines, not a low horizontal sign like V30."
Finally, his analysis of the fourth symbol is criticized because, "The Micmac glyph cited by Fell appears to be a triangle, representing the Trinity, and not a set of stairs."
By this sort of criticism, it is implied that there must be no connection between the Micmac writing and the ancient Egyptian, and that the symbols selected by the priests were merely Christian symbols (such as a triangle for the Trinity or a Globus Cruciger for the concept of "holy") and that these selections only coincidentally resembled Egyptian hieroglyphs for the same concepts.
However, this argument becomes more difficult to maintain when other Micmac symbols are examined. For example, prominent in the Micmac version of the Lord's Prayer reproduced above (from an 1822 book published in German) is the symbol for "name" (as in, "hallowed be thy name"). The Micmac symbol recorded by Father Maillard in 1762 is extremely suggestive of the ancient Egyptian symbol for a name, which is the symbol known as a "cartouche" (see below, in which the Micmac symbol is juxtaposed with a cartouche from the Rosetta Stone):
This similarity is extremely problematic, because it is well known that the feat of deciphering the Rosetta Stone rested upon the insight by Champollion (in the 1820s) that these cartouches contained royal names, as well as his breakthrough discovery that the hieroglyphs could play a dual role in representing both individual phonetic sounds in some usages and entire words in others. To suggest that Maillard (who died in 1762) had known that cartouches represented the concept of a "name" is speculative beyond belief, and implies that this missionary priest, who spent the bulk of his life in remote woodlands ministering to Native Americans and who had never been to Egypt nor shown any evidence of interest in deciphering the mystery that had puzzled linguists for centuries, had somehow found time to crack the Egyptian code before Champollion, but had kept his understanding of it a secret.
Other Micmac hieroglyphs that are difficult to explain away are shown in the image on page 5 of the Italian reproduction referenced above, such as the hieroglyphs that Egyptologists equate with an image of "mountains" or the common image of a "mouth," as well as the startlingly similar hieroglyphs denoting "metal" in general (three vertically-arranged circles in both systems) and "gold" and "silver" in particular. While the hieroglyphs selected by Wikipedia can be attacked as being coincidental Christian symbols mistakenly confused with Egyptian hieroglyphs, these others cannot be so readily criticized.
In the end, it does not really matter whether one is convinced by the evidence of ancient contact present in Micmac script. One piece of evidence, on its own, can be explained away as an incredible coincidence. The important perspective to adopt when examining such evidence is the understanding that each such clue is "one data point." When viewed in conjunction with all the other data points found in the Americas which point to deliberate ancient contact, the Micmac writing system is far more powerful evidence.
The possibility that ancient civilizations who inherited knowledge from predecessors unknown to conventional academia (who possessed knowledge and capabilities far beyond what conventional academia would grant at such an early date) regularly traveled across the oceans is explored in more depth in The Mathisen Corollary book.
One point that is made is that, while conventional scholars may scoff at the evidence of European writing systems found in the New World, and argue that such evidence is either faked or (as in the case of the Micmac writing) the invention of modern priests with an affinity for the "holiness" of an Egyptian writing system which they could not even understand, it is far more difficult to argue that enormous pyramids, temples and murals were also fakes or modern anachronisms. Even more difficult is it to argue that the human remains, in the form of mummies and mummy-bundles, are forgeries or cases of mistaken identity.
Taken in context with all the other evidence, then, the case of the Micmac hieroglyphics is another blow to the isolationist position, and a powerful blow at that
Mi'kmaq hieroglyphic writing was a writing system and memory aid used by the Mi'kmaq, a First Nations people of the east coast of Canada.
The missionary-era glyphs were logograms, with phonetic elements used alongside (Schmidt & Marshall 1995), which included logographic, alphabetic, and ideographic information.[citation needed] They were derived from a pictograph and petroglyph tradition.[1] In Mi'kmaq the glyphs are called komqwejwi'kasikl, or "sucker-fish writings", which refers to the tracks the sucker fish leaves on the muddy river bottom.
Classification Scholars have debated whether the earliest known Mi'kmaq "hieroglyphs" from the 17th century qualified fully as a writing system, rather than as a pictographic mnemonic device. In the 17th century, French missionary Chrétien Le Clercq adapted the Míkmaq characters as a logographic system for pedagogical purposes.
In 1978, Ives Goddard and William Fitzhugh of the Department of Anthropology at the Smithsonian Institution, contended that the pre-missionary system was purely mnemonic, as it could not be used to write new compositions. Schmidt and Marshall argued in 1995 that the missionary system of the 17th century was able to serve as a fully functional writing system. This would mean that Mi'kmaq is the oldest writing system for a native language north of Mexico.
History Father Le Clercq, a Roman Catholic missionary on the Gaspé Peninsula in New France from 1675, claimed that he had seen some Míkmaq children 'writing' symbols on birchbark as a memory aid. This was sometimes done by pressing porcupine quills directly into the bark in the shape of symbols. Le Clercq adapted those symbols to writing prayers, developing new symbols as necessary.
This adapted writing system proved popular among Mi'kmaq, and was still in use in the 19th century. Since there is no historical or archaeological evidence of these symbols from before the arrival of this missionary, it is unclear how ancient the use of the mnemonic glyphs was. The relationship of these symbols with Mi'kmaq petroglyphs is also unclear.
Pierre Maillard, Roman Catholic priest, during the winter of 1737–38[2] perfected a system of hieroglyphics to transcribe Mi'kmaq words. He used these symbols to write formulas for the principal prayers and the responses of the faithful, in the catechism, so his followers might learn them more readily. In this development he was greatly aided by Jean-Louis Le Loutre, another French missionary. There is no direct evidence that Maillard was aware of Le Clercq's work; in any event Maillard's work is outstanding in that he left numerous works in the language, which continued in use among the Mi'kmaq into the 20th century.[3][4]
An unknown number of birch scrolls containing mi'kmaq writings were destroyed by missionaries in New England, before the writing system was adapted to aid conversion of community members to Christianity.
According to controversial revisionist Russian mathematician Anatoly Fomenko the egytian Hieroglyph was written in the Aramaic language
According to Egyptologist Mustapha Gadalla in the book the Egyptian Romany the Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic languages are connected languages that come from a language call Mudar an abreviation from the Egyptian language Medu Neter,
Ancient Hieroglyphic script and its corresponding English equivalents. Now you can write your name out in ancient Egyptian and begin to read simple words.
Madda (مدة) is a long extension and in this case an extended "a" sound over the letter alif (آ) in Arabic and Muddah (مدة) "is a time, a while" in Ashuric/Syriac Arabic which comes from the ancient Egyptian word Medu. Also in Ashuric Arabic, madaat (مدات) means "words" same as Metaat/Medaat/Medu in ancient Egyptian. They share the same root "Md" (Medu and Madda/muddah/Madaat).
Also please note that speech takes the longest as in time to reach in development in human beings as Muddah time (Ashuric/Syriac Arabic) and Medu of the Neter was developed over thousands of years in time since they said Tehuti had given it to humans in ancient Egyptian records."
The Egyptian Mustafa Gadalla states: "Tracing the history of the Arabic language will lead us to Ancient Egypt. Ibn Hazm, the medieval Arabic scholar of Córdoba (died 1064), recognized that Aramaic/Syriac, Hebrew, and Arabic were kindred dialects, derived from the Mudar, the dialect in which the Koran had been disclosed.
The original home of Arabic—the Arabic of the Koran came from the northwestern region of the Arabian Peninsula. These three kindred dialects (Aramaic/Syriac, Hebrew, and Arabic) originated from the Moab region. Diodorus, Book I, [28, 1-4], tells of an Egyptian colony at present-day Moab. . . . that the nation of the Colchi in Pontus (Russia/Turkey, Europe) and that of the Jews, which lies between Arabia and Syria, were founded as colonies by certain emigrants from their country [Egypt]; and this is the reason why it is a long-established institution among these two peoples to circumcise their male children, the custom having been brought over from Egypt.
Also as brother Sheik Way-El has stated: The Mudar is also spoken of in Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah.
It is therefore a logical step to consider the role of the Ancient Egypt language, as it relates to the later formulated Arabic language.
To decipher the Ancient Egyptian language and its grammar and syntax, modern-day Egyptologists studied the Arabic language. They assumed that Arabic, being an offshoot of the Ancient Egyptian language, would share much of the same grammar/syntax and vocabulary. It was generally the right assumption and thus Egyptologists were able to address the subject of the Ancient Egyptian grammar and syntax.
The Ancient Egyptian-controlled Moabi region is regarded as the home of the Mudar language, the forerunner of Arabic. The name Mudar is an abbreviated form of the Ancient Egyptian term, Medu-Neter, meaning the words/language of angels/gods. It is no accident that Moslems say that Arabic is the “language of angels”, in imitation of the Ancient Egyptian Medu Neter. The people of this Ancient Egyptian colony (Moabi) spoke and wrote the Egyptian language. Scripts found in the Moabi region look exactly like the Ancient Egyptian demotic style of writing.
The Egyptians were the only people in the Moabi region who had an available writing surface (papyri), and its associated writing tools of pens and inks. When Ancient Egypt lost power in Asia, there was no one to maintain a literate Mudar language, and as a result no more than a handful of written texts were found, because writing was/is not part of the nomadic life—a fact that was also affirmed by Ibn Khaldun in his Muqaddimah [chapter 5, sections 20-22]."
Both the Egyptian and the Semitic languages (that include Arabic and Hebrew) are branches of the Afroasiatic language family.
Some of the shared features are:
* The use of consonantal lexical roots (mostly trilateral) and nonconcatenative morphology. That is, morphology in which words inflect by changes within the root: the root consonants (that have a basic lexical meaning) are "placed" in different patterns (that have a grammatical meaning). * The use of emphatic consonants * Egyptian, like Arabic and Old Canaanite (which is the ancestor of Hebrew), has a three vowel system of /a, i, u/. * A two-gender system in which the feminine is marked with the suffix –at. Nominal prefix m-, adjectival suffix –ī * Old Egyptian, Biblical Hebrew and Quranic Arabic have a VSO word order (verb-subject-object). Later (modern) dialects of all three languages tend to use SVO (subject-verb-object). * Shared vocabulary: some possessive suffixes and pronouns, and lexical roots like [MWT, "death"], [SMW, "name"], [DM, "blood"].
As stated by Doba Afolabi, "most of these words go with Yoruba than any other modern language. Ones that are directly related are C pronounced SHE for "ASE" , D is actual T Which is "TE" Spreading hand, F is "FA" used for any crawling things pronounced like Far , axe blade in G is "GE" in Yoruba while I is "YE" , a ladder shifting. J is actually spelt EDJO as in "EJO" Yoruba for snake. M goes with "MO" meaning , to know or wisdom in Yoruba. N can be found in "ENINI " water particles.O like the rest is not an alphabet. It stands for "OUN" or "U'N'- to tie P is GB representing the pictorial of loads "GBE," Q is K , a hill , "OKE" in Yoruba , R in the shape of an Eye is "RI" S is "SO" tie together, while D is mistaken for T .:"DE" -covered. KH is "OKUKU" in form of stripes of dark cloud blocking the sun.Two feathers in Y is "IYE" , ISA or OSA pool or lagoon as represented in SH then EJI ideogram of Ibedji - identical , MS is MONSE Not SH but "AIKU/IKO OKUN OLA"- The knot of life. The world should study Yoruba to connect these concepts which are not alphabets but ideographs of Yoruba ancient communication called AROKO."
Also as added by brother Mubabinge Bilolo MDW is Esperanto of ciLuba (Bantu language of Central Africa specifically Democratic Republic of Kongo/Congo) : MADU, MALU, MALWA. For ex.: Madu kayi? or Malu kai? = How are you? Litt.: "What Kind of News / of Problems?"
Posts: 5374 | From: sepedat/sirius | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic