posted
In following up on the stupidness posted by lamin on Black American genetics, I decided to see just exactly where the Albinos are getting these numbers.
As a reminder:
About 550,000 of the 10-12 million African Slaves transported to the Americas went to the United States, which is less than 5%. The majority of them went to Brazil, about 40%. Which translates to about 4-5 million.
The total population of the United States is about 300 million. The current Black population of the United States is greater than 40 million.
The current population of Brazil is about 200 million.
Ethnic groups
The minority ethnic groups in Brazil are various non-assimilated indigenous tribes, comprising less than 1% of the population, who live in officially delimited reservations and either avoid contact with other peoples, or constitute separate social and political communities.
The rest of the population can be considered a single "Brazilian" ethnic group, with highly varied racial types and backgrounds, but without clear ethnic sub-divisions. By "skin colour", or "race", the 2008 PNAD gives 48.43% White, 43.80% Multirracial, 6.84% Black, 0.58% Asian, 0.28% Amerindian, 0.07% undeclared.
The 6.84% Black figure would equate to 13.68 million Blacks in the country of Brazil.
To start off, I got this from L. David Ropers compilation taken from "The Journey of Man, A Genetic Odyssey by Spencer Wells, p. 182."
Haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration
Haplogroup E3a is an Africa lineage. It is currently hypothesized that this haplogroup dispersed south from northern Africa within the last 3,000 years, by the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is also the most common lineage among African Americans.
Haplogroup E3b is believed to have evolved in the Middle East. It expanded into the Mediterranean during the Pleistocene Neolithic expansion. It is currently distributed around the Mediterranean, southern Europe, and in north and east Africa.
Going over to Wiki E3a is redirected to Haplogroup E-V38.
In human genetics, Haplogroup E-V38 is a human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. It is the phylogenetic term for the series of unique sequence variants on the human Y-chromosome. It is often found in African males and their descendants and is heritably passed in lineage from father to son. Geneticists study these variants in populations to find the evolutionary lineage to a common male human ancestor. It can also be referred to in phylogenetic nomenclature by names such as E1b1a (although the exact definition of phylogenetic names can vary over time).
E-V38 has two basal branches, E-M329 and E-M2, the former is almost exclusively found in Ethiopia, while the latter is the predominant lineage in Western Africa, Central Africa, Southern Africa, North Africa and the southern parts of Eastern Africa. E-M2 has several subclades, however many members are included in either E-L485 or E-U175.
The Trans-Atlantic slave trade brought a significant number of men from West and Central Africa to the Americas. Consequently, the haplogroup is often observed in the United States in men who self-identify as African Americans. It has also been observed in a number of populations in Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, and South America among people of African descent.
(Pay careful attention to what this 58%-60% is based on. See the Reference below)!
(References from above)
Note 4: E-V38 is approximately 7.7-7.9% of total US male (that means Black AND Albino) population.
ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION PEOPLE!!!!
Reference 13:
Sub-populations within the major European and African derived haplogroups R1b3 and E3a are differentiated by previously phylogenetically undefined Y-SNPs†‡
Lynn M. Sims1, Dennis Garvey4, Jack Ballantyne1,2,3,*
Article first published online: 8 DEC 2006
Abstract
Single nucleotide polymorphisms on the Y chromosome (Y-SNPs) have been widely used in the study of human migration patterns and evolution. Potential forensic applications of Y-SNPs include their use in predicting the ethnogeographic origin of the donor of a crime scene sample, or exclusion of suspects of sexual assaults (the evidence of which often comprises male/female mixtures and may involve multiple perpetrators), paternity testing, and identification of non- and half-siblings. In this study, we used a population of 118 African- and 125 European-Americans to evaluate 12 previously phylogenetically undefined Y-SNPs for their ability to further differentiate individuals who belong to the major African (E3a)- and European (R1b3, I)-derived haplogroups. Ten of these markers define seven new sub-clades (equivalent to E3a7a, E3a8, E3a8a, E3a8a1, R1b3h, R1b3i, and R1b3i1 using the Y Chromosome Consortium nomenclature) within haplogroups E and R. Interestingly, during the course of this study we evaluated M222, a sub-R1b3 marker rarely used, and found that this sub-haplogroup in effect defines the Y-STR Irish Modal Haplotype (IMH). The new bi-allelic markers described here are expected to find application in human evolutionary studies and forensic genetics.
Note 92: Stephen D. Behrendt, David Richardson, and David Eltis, W. E. B. Du Bois Institute for African and African-American Research, Harvard University. Based on "records for 27,233 voyages that set out to obtain slaves for the Americas". Stephen Behrendt (1999). "Transatlantic Slave Trade". Africana: The Encyclopedia of the African and African American Experience. New York: Basic Civitas Books.
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posted
As desperate as ever. LOL. You cite the numbers of white historians and demographers and you twist their problematic findings to suit your own laughably spurious theories.
The British dominated the Atlantic slave trade from the early 17th century until its abolition in 1806. Most of their shipping went to the territories they controlled or had previous dealings with. So that 5% for the U.S. markets is questionable.
The population of Brazil is some 200 million and of that population a full 55% would be considered "black" by American criteria.
In the U.S. anyone with discernible African ancestry is considered "black", not so in other parts of the Americas. An example of such is easily googled for images: Adam Clayton Powell, considered "negro" in the U.S. would be considered "moreno" in Brazil and mestizo in other parts of South America. Reasonably speaking some 10-15% of African Americans would fit the "mestizo" bill.
LOL. With your "note 4" you are just showing yourself to be not very smart. Nice try(irony) but pathetic.
Blacks are officially supposed to be somewhere in the vicinity of 13% of the U.S. population so if E-V38 is carried by 8% of the U.S population that evens out to approximately 65% of the black male population as expected. I would say even more given that such tests are hardly carried out on inner city or very rural blacks where the percentage of E-V38 would be higher.
E-V38 is African, not European. LOL.
I am waiting with LOL for your powder-puff punches. Give it up Mike--or I will have to put you out of your misery--with words of course.
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posted
Mike is a fraud. Notice he claims the white man is a liar and distorter, but every image that he uses to bamboozle his ignorant audience is taken by or produced by a white person. Mike is the unltimate Hypocrite.
Hell, the Lioness of all people exposed his sloppy google scholarship on the Harith Hadith Thread.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Blacks are officially supposed to be somewhere in the vicinity of 13% of the U.S. population so if E-V38 is carried by 8% of the U.S population that evens out to approximately 65% of the black male population as expected. I would say even more given that such tests are hardly carried out on inner city or very rural blacks where the percentage of E-V38 would be higher.
From Above:
Note 4: E-V38 is approximately 7.7-7.9% of total US male (that means Black AND Albino) population.
Lamin - you have to be the stupidest ass on the forum: Which part of "E-V38 is approximately 7.7-7.9% of total US male population" don't you understand??? I even paraphrased it for you so you would know that Albinos were included: AND STILL YOU COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT!
Oh ya, I forgot, you are an African Albino fronting as an African. Okay, I'll break it down for you.
United States Demographics Profile 2013 (Clyde - It's Albino bullsh1t, but for the sake of argument).
Ethnic groups
white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate) note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean persons of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino origin including those of Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican Republic, Spanish, and Central or South American origin living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic.
posted
BTW lamin - In your haste to post nonsense, you forgot the point. Regardless of how many Black Americans are E-V38, they are still very DIFFERENT from Brazilian Blacks, who are KNOWN to be Africans: but they have very little E-V38 - less than 20%.
Do you get it asshole - THE POPULATIONS ARE DIFFERENT!
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The rest of the population can be considered a single "Brazilian" ethnic group, with highly varied racial types and backgrounds, but without clear ethnic sub-divisions. By "skin colour", or "race", the 2008 PNAD gives 48.43% White, 43.80% Multirracial, 6.84% Black, 0.58% Asian, 0.28% Amerindian, 0.07% undeclared.
The 6.84% Black figure would equate to 13.68 million Blacks in the country of Brazil. [/QB]
to compare Brazil to the U.S. you have to take the Brazil system where 43.8 % are listed as multiracial and ask how they would be listed in the American system. In America the vast majority would probably identify as 'black" -Now redo your numbers, for sure. Example Barack is a so called "mulatto" yet in America he is considered 'black'
Brazil has always had a broader system of raciial categorization with more categories, "pardo" and many more earlier terms
"Mulatto" was a concept that thrived for a short period primarily in specific states in the U.S. but was only an official census category until 1930.
Even when it was used the U.S. in general is more inclined to encourage people to choose between 'black' and 'white' Brazil historically had more racial categories nad broader use of them
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lamin - having to explain, and re-explain, sh1t to you and Jari is getting on my nerves. Can't the two of you take a reading comprehension class or something?
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Lioness - didn't you get the memo, OUTWARD racial appearance DOES NOT MATTER with genetics. Being E-V38 has nothing to do with how you look, but rather, where your ancestors came from.
Therefore the changing definition of Mulatto has no bearing on the matter.
lamin is an idiot, do not follow his strawmen.
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posted
Frequency of E-V38 in Bahia Brazil is 19%, all 'races' averaged
E-V38 reaches frequencies of over 80% in many parts of West Africa, Central Africa, East Africa as well as Southern Africa. It's high in 'black' Americans 58-60% case closed you're African
You raise more questions about Brazillians than you do AA's - but you need to look at Afro-Brazillians specifically in order to compare them to Afro-Americans
Posts: 42932 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Frequency of E-V38 in Bahia Brazil is 19%, all 'races' averaged
E-V38 reaches frequencies of over 80% in many parts of West Africa, Central Africa, East Africa as well as Southern Africa. It's high in 'black' Americans 58-60% case closed you're African
You raise more questions about Brazillians than you do AA's - but you need to look at Afro-Brazillians specifically in order to compare them to Afro-Americans
Which part of this table don't you understand?
It is about E-V38, it doesn't say anything about skin color!
posted
Blacks are not the arch enemy of whites. George Bush had a black Secretary of State and National Security advisor. He could have chosen not to with no problems. Barack Obama, with an African father, considered black by many is president. Black people are in the police, military, judges and have been highest ranked generals. The arch enemies of the United States governemnt currently are Al Queda, North Korea and Iran
Posts: 42932 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Frequency of E-V38 in Bahia Brazil is 19%, all 'races' averaged
E-V38 reaches frequencies of over 80% in many parts of West Africa, Central Africa, East Africa as well as Southern Africa. It's high in 'black' Americans 58-60% case closed you're African
You raise more questions about Brazillians than you do AA's - but you need to look at Afro-Brazillians specifically in order to compare them to Afro-Americans
Which part of this table don't you understand?
It is about E-V38, it doesn't say anything about skin color!
Mike you still don't get it
You question seems to be why aren't Brazillians more E V38
-not about black Americans who like Africans show significant E V38
You are looking at a list that is only looking at "African Americans" of Americans
yet it is looking at all Bahia Brazillians.
A consistent E-V38 comaprision would be either All Americans vs All Brazillians
or African Americans vs. Afro-Brazillians
That wikipedia chart is misleading in that sense. The reference is
Nascimento, Eugênio; Eneida Cerqueira, Eliana Azevedo, Vilma Freitas, Dalmo Azevedo (December 2009). "The Africa male lineages of Bahia's people—Northeast Brazil: A preliminary SNPs study". Forensic Science International
^^^ They start at a look at the whole popualtion all 'races' of Bahia
and it is still a quite significant 19%
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Mike why even look at Brazillians? Look at AAs and Africans, we both have high E V38, case closed you made it
Still want to look at Brazillians go to source material on Afro-Brazillians rather than wikipedia talking about Afro-Brazillians but listing an E V38 figure for the whole of bahia
I'm trying to help you before lamin comes around
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Mike has been rejected by the father so he calls the father names hoping that the father would see his plight and invite him back to the fold. But the father has been unmoved.
Mikes feels he has no other father so his goal now is to try to usurp the father by claiming that the father's house is his house.
But Mike is all talk. All Mike has to do is to get a visa and fly to Europe and set up a little Mikestan and beseech all the "black Europeans" to join him in his settlement venture. When the time is ripe President Mike would then petition the EU for full membership. Mike will then be at peace having reconciled with the father.
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Bahia is one of the 26 states of Brazil, and is located in the northeastern part of the country on the Atlantic coast. It is the fourth most populous Brazilian state after São Paulo, Minas Gerais and Rio de Janeiro, and the fifth-largest in size.
Demographics
According to the IBGE of 2008, there are 14,561,000 people residing in the state. The last PNAD (National Research for Sample of Domiciles) census revealed the following numbers:
9,149,000 Brown (Multiracial) people (62.83%), 3,000,000 White people (20.60%), 2,328,000 Black people (15.99%), 42,000 Amerindian people (0.29%), 37,000 Asian people (0.26%).
Alagoas is one of the 27 states of Brazil and is situated in the eastern part of the Northeast Region.
Demographics
According to the IBGE of 2008, there were 3,173,000 people residing in the state. The last PNAD (National Research for Sample of Domiciles) census revealed the following numbers:
2,100,000 Brown (Multiracial) people (66.18%), 964,000 White people (30.39%), 96,000 Black people (3.02%), 11,000 Asian people (0.35%).
Now then, I do not know why researchers chose Bahia and Alagoas as indicative of Brazil's racial composition, perhaps mali might know. But in any event that is the results of their research. So Lamin and lioness, PLEASE stop posting. The raw stupidity of your posts is annoying.
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Bahia is one of the 26 states of Brazil, and is located in the northeastern part of the country on the Atlantic coast. It is the fourth most populous Brazilian state after São Paulo, Minas Gerais and Rio de Janeiro, and the fifth-largest in size.
Demographics
According to the IBGE of 2008, there are 14,561,000 people residing in the state. The last PNAD (National Research for Sample of Domiciles) census revealed the following numbers:
9,149,000 Brown (Multiracial) people (62.83%), 3,000,000 White people (20.60%), 2,328,000 Black people (15.99%), 42,000 Amerindian people (0.29%), 37,000 Asian people (0.26%).
You are comparing African Americans to all groups in Bahia.
The proper comaprision would be either
African Americans vs. AfroBahians
or
All Americans to All Bahians
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Notice the chart didn't say Americans it said "African Americans" Yet did not say Afro Cubans, Afro Dominicans etc, - not a consistent comparison, example there are white Cubans but not white African Americans except Bryant Gumble
stop being stupid find some primary research articles on Afro Brazillians
-and after you do that realize that African Americans have high levels E V38 like many Africans do.
Then as lamin suggested emmigrate to Germany and set up a "Real Europeans Community" perhaps Egmond could assist you. How are you going to claim land you are not even standing on?
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Very minor findings of E in Europe Mike, dominated as it is by R and I. Some J there too but again in a minority.
So what is the source of your fantasies Mike?
Lamin and lioness - I AM ABSOLUTELY FLABBERGASTED!
I have no other words to describe the two of you. You post something stupid... I respond by posting the true facts, AND I insult you, so that you might stop posting stupidness.
BUT YOU NEVER STOP!!!
Lamin, don't you EVER check anything before you post your nonsense???
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LOL black European states of Mikestan and Egmondstan. Sad behavior Brazilian brown skin black and light skin black dont want to be classify as black, they classify themselves as pardo, moreno and white. Dont be full people the world is negrophobic.
quote:Originally posted by mena7: LOL black European states of Mikestan and Egmondstan. Sad behavior Brazilian brown skin black and light skin black dont want to be classify as black, they classify themselves as pardo, moreno and white. Dont be full people the world is negrophobic.
The suffix (stan) is Persian for "place of" or "country,", ultimately from Indo-Iranian -sthāna. In Indo-Aryan languages, sthāna means "place", and is cognate to the Latin terms state and status (meaning "to stand").
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Bahia is one of the 26 states of Brazil, and is located in the northeastern part of the country on the Atlantic coast. It is the fourth most populous Brazilian state after São Paulo, Minas Gerais and Rio de Janeiro, and the fifth-largest in size.
Demographics
According to the IBGE of 2008, there are 14,561,000 people residing in the state. The last PNAD (National Research for Sample of Domiciles) census revealed the following numbers:
9,149,000 Brown (Multiracial) people (62.83%), 3,000,000 White people (20.60%), 2,328,000 Black people (15.99%), 42,000 Amerindian people (0.29%), 37,000 Asian people (0.26%).
Alagoas is one of the 27 states of Brazil and is situated in the eastern part of the Northeast Region.
Demographics
According to the IBGE of 2008, there were 3,173,000 people residing in the state. The last PNAD (National Research for Sample of Domiciles) census revealed the following numbers:
2,100,000 Brown (Multiracial) people (66.18%), 964,000 White people (30.39%), 96,000 Black people (3.02%), 11,000 Asian people (0.35%).
Now then, I do not know why researchers chose Bahia and Alagoas as indicative of Brazil's racial composition, perhaps mali might know. But in any event that is the results of their research. So Lamin and lioness, PLEASE stop posting. The raw stupidity of your posts is annoying.
Origins
The Africans brought to Brazil belonged to two major groups: the West African and the Bantu people.
West African people (previously known as Sudanese, and without connection with Sudan) were sent in large scale to Bahia. They mostly belong to the Akan (Ashanti-Fanti); Yoruba people; Ewe; Ga-Adangbe; Igbo People; Fon people; and Mandinka people. Other West African groups native to Ghana, Benin, Guinea-Bissau and Nigeria were also subjected to slavery in Brazil.
Bantu were brought from Angola, Congo region and Mozambique and sent in large scale to Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais, and Northeastern Brazil.
The Bantus were brought from Angola, Congo region and the Shona kingdoms from Zimbabwe and Mozambique and sent in large scale to Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais, and the Northeastern Brazil.
Gilberto Freyre noted the major differences between these groups. Some Sudanese peoples, such as Hausa, Fula and others were Islamic, spoke Arabic and many of them could read and write in this language. Take note that among Muslim slaves were brought from northern Mozambique. Freyre noted that many slaves were better educated than their masters, because many Muslim slaves were literate in Arabic, while many Portuguese Brazilian masters could not even read or write in Portuguese.
These slaves of greater Arab and Berber influence were largely sent to Bahia. These Muslim slaves, known as Malê in Brazil, produced one of the greatest slave revolts in the Americas, when in 1835 they tried to take the control of Salvador, until then the largest city of the American continent, and the all of the New World . The event was known as the Malê Revolt.
Despite the large influx of Islamic slaves, most of the slaves in Brazil were brought from the Bantu regions of the Atlantic coast of Africa where today Congo and Angola are located, and also from Mozambique. In general, these people lived in either tribes, kingdoms or city-states. The people from Congo had developed agriculture, raised livestock, domesticated animals such as goat, pig, chicken and dog and produced sculpture in wood. Some groups from Angola were nomadic and did not know agriculture.
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quote:Originally posted by mena7: LOL black European states of Mikestan and Egmondstan. Sad behavior Brazilian brown skin black and light skin black dont want to be classify as black, they classify themselves as pardo, moreno and white. Dont be full people the world is negrophobic.
Assuming people should racailly classify themeslves should a person who is half Swedish and half Nigerian classify themsleves as black, white or mixed, biracial, mulatto etc?
Now look at this Turkish family:
^^^ Turkish family are they black, white or pardo ?
where do they fit on the U.S. census?
^^^ see the problem here? Some people are listed as a color, others as a country
.
^^^ But do we need this question asked at all?
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Mike is a fraud. Notice he claims the white man is a liar and distorter, but every image that he uses to bamboozle his ignorant audience is taken by or produced by a white person. Mike is the unltimate Hypocrite.
Hell, the Lioness of all people exposed his sloppy google scholarship on the Harith Hadith Thread.
The argument you've presented is noise and fails to consider availability of funding and resources, pretending massive disparity does not exist. Using Albino generated sources and correlating it with others to form a valid conclusion is alright. What is the problem with using albino sources?
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^It will be years before we have the resources to do our own original research. I expect that when we do, there will be a wealth of new information. In researching for this thread, I was surprised by how different information on haplogroup "E" could be, depending on source - the Albinos are obviously doing as much damage as they can with it.
Musing on Jari and lamins response to the data above proving that Black Americans didn't come from sub-Saharan Africa. If I didn't know better, it would seem like someone called their grandmother a hoe. Wonder what that means.
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^ Years? I often wonder if there will ever exist a black controlled think tank or independent research center. I mean, that sort of organization requires leadership and a dedicated commitment to the agenda. The most capable organizations available to blacks are churches, black trade Associations, fraternities/Sororities, etc., with none showing any interest in developing an Information research capability. Even the Nation Of Islam is currently at it's lowest in this area since it's inception.
What Blacks need is a new Afrocentric religion based on personal enlightenment.
-------------------- Selenium gives real life and true reality Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth: ^ Years? I often wonder if there will ever exist a black controlled think tank or independent research center. I mean, that sort of organization requires leadership and a dedicated commitment to the agenda. The most capable organizations available to blacks are churches, black trade Associations, fraternities/Sororities, etc., with none showing any interest in developing an Information research capability. Even the Nation Of Islam is currently at it's lowest in this area since it's inception.
What Blacks need is a new Afrocentric religion based on personal enlightenment.
I disagree - the problem is that Blacks have been taught that there is nothing worthwhile in their past to be discovered - aside from the usual suspects. They therefore have no interest in it.
And this is no accident!
As I said, note the reactions of lamin, lioness, and Jari. But of course it's not just them, the entire Albino social structure is engaged in trying to disenfranchise Blacks from their TRUE history.
Please watch this commercial for Ancestry.com, please think about what it is REALLY telling you.
Once Blacks realize the cruel game that has been played on them, there are plenty enough institutions to do the research. They have to just WANT to do it.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Black Americans didn't come from sub-Saharan Africa.
Mike if we look at your alternative scenario, that America blacks came from Europe that theory doesn't indicate whether or not we were slaves. People could have been deported from Europe and still entered the U.S. as black European slaves Do you believe slavery of Black people occured in the Carribbean but not in the United States, that it happened in both places or that it happened in neither place?
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^ LOL, I knew you'd disagree, just from the religious angle. But, as you've stated many Blacks have been lead to believe and develop habits which are contrary to their own best interests. realizing this, how then do you begin to form a real black research group with well defined goals, agenda and resources?
Meaning, if you don't agree, then what is your plan?
I have selected the area of religion simply because of the dysfunctions mentioned. Isn't that how the nation Of Islam began, as a alternative reality for incarcerated brothers?
Dysfunction or not, Blacks still retain many of their African superstitious side, which is why the Baptist religion has been so profitable for it's many hundreds of thousands of minsters, pastors, and bishops.
-------------------- Selenium gives real life and true reality Posts: 4693 | From: Saturn | Registered: Apr 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Narmerthoth: ^ LOL, I knew you'd disagree, just from the religious angle. But, as you've stated many Blacks have been lead to believe and develop habits which are contrary to their own best interests. realizing this, how then do you begin to form a real black research group with well defined goals, agenda and resources?
Meaning, if you don't agree, then what is your plan?
I have selected the area of religion simply because of the dysfunctions mentioned. Isn't that how the nation Of Islam began, as a alternative reality for incarcerated brothers?
Dysfunction or not, Blacks still retain many of their African superstitious side, which is why the Baptist religion has been so profitable for it's many hundreds of thousands of minsters, pastors, and bishops.
I really hate it when people disagree and are right. Okay, black Americans do show an inordinate need for religion, and yes that will undoubtedly get in the way of self actualization at first.
But don't forget that at each step of the way in history, advanced Blacks USED religion as a focal point for their advancement.
i.e. Egyptian technology was developed to build religious structures. So if we have to use religion again, so be it, we will use religion again.
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I have selected the area of religion simply because of the dysfunctions mentioned. Isn't that how the nation Of Islam began, as a alternative reality for incarcerated brothers?
I'm not sure about that it's foundations go back to the 1930s
" It was a conscious strategy of the Nation of Islam to target prisons as a recruitment ground. This can be traced back to 1942 when Elijah Muhammad and 62 of his followers were convicted of draft evasion (their religion does no tallow them to serve in the armed forces) and jailed for three years. While in prison Muhammad recognized the fertile ground that existed for any radical ideas amongst what was known as the black underclass. After the war much time and energy was devoted specifically to winning over prisoners."
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quote:It will be years before we have the resources to do our own original research. I expect that when we do, there will be a wealth of new information. In researching for this thread, I was surprised by how different information on haplogroup "E" could be, depending on source - the Albinos are obviously doing as much damage as they can with it.
Musing on Jari and lamins response to the data above proving that Black Americans didn't come from sub-Saharan Africa. If I didn't know better, it would seem like someone called their grandmother a hoe. Wonder what that means.
LOL. Another instance the "Mike syndrome". Not only is it established that 70% of African males carry the haplogroup E.
The Dogon(Mali) are 46% E1b1a while Ibos are 89%. Gabon is 79% while Hausas in the Sudan are 13%. African Americans are approx 70% E1b1a. Clearly they are of West African origin.
Another factor that points to the West African origin of AAs is the Duffy[negative] antigen index. People of European extraction are some 2-3% Duffy negative. The West African range is from 70% to 90%. The Southern African average is some 70%. The Duffy index tracks malarial areas. The AA average is 70%.
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Mike, Some mental cleansing for you. The term "sub-Saharan" Africa is a racist Eurocentric term that should be avoided. Africa is Africa Mike. Don't be brainwashed into that kind of language. North Africa is some 45-50% Duffy negative Mike.
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Another factor that points to the West African origin of AAs is the Duffy[negative] antigen index. People of European extraction are some 2-3% Duffy negative. The West African range is from 70% to 90%. The Southern African average is some 70%. The Duffy index tracks malarial areas. The AA average is 70%.
Lamin you are becoming like you Albino brethren Cass, in that you spend hours finding the most ridiculous diseases or conditions and claiming that they have something to do with race.
So now you have come up with the "Duffy antigen system" and claim that it proves who is African. Well consider this:
The silent allele has evolved at least twice in the black population of Africa and evidence for selection for this allele has been found. The selection pressure involved here appears to be more complex than many text books might suggest. An independent evolution of this phenotype occurred in Papua New Guinea has also been documented.
As a reminder:
The Papuains and Australians were the first Humans to leave Africa (60-70,000 years ago), Black Europeans were among the last (40-45,000 years ago).
Therefore the Duffy Gene cannot distinguish Black Europeans from any other Blacks.
So why do only a few Blacks and almost ALL Albinos carry it?
Differences in the racial distribution of the Duffy antigens were discovered in 1954, when it was found that the overwhelming majority of blacks had the erythrocyte phenotype:
Erythrocytes
Red blood cells, or erythrocytes, are the most common type of blood cell and the vertebrate organism's principal means of delivering oxygen (O2) to the body tissues via the blood flow through the circulatory system. They take up oxygen in the lungs or gills and release it while squeezing through the body's capillaries.
These cells' cytoplasm is rich in haemoglobin, an iron-containing biomolecule that can bind oxygen and is responsible for the blood's red color.
In humans, mature red blood cells are oval and flexible biconcave disks. They lack a cell nucleus and most organelles to accommodate maximum space for haemoglobin. 2.4 million new erythrocytes are produced per second. The cells develop in the bone marrow and circulate for about 100–120 days in the body before their components are recycled by macrophages. Each circulation takes about 20 seconds. Approximately a quarter of the cells in the human body are red blood cells.
Lamin - you dumb bastard, are you getting it??? Duffy is about "Healthy" verses "Unhealthy" populations.
Albinos are positive, except by admixture, BECAUSE THEY ARE "UNHEALTHY" DEFECTIVE ALBINOS!!!
posted
Mike, you sinking in an intellectual quicksand with your dumb and illogical claims.
If your "black Europeans" exited Africa some 40-50KYA the what time did the "white Europeans" enter Europe?
If the white Europeans are Duffy positive why not the same for the "black Europeans" seeing that, according to you, they shared the same ecological and climatic conditions for for millennia?
The Duffy index predicts forms of immunity to malaria of the Plasmodium Vivax variety. Plasmodium Vivax is rare in Africa because most Africans are Duffy negative.
But after leaving Africa for 40-50,000 years now your "black Europeans" should just be as Duffy positive as the white Europeans whose ancestors left Africa at the same time or even later.
But your "black Europeans" who you claim migrated to the U.S. in the last 250 years are just as Duffy negative as their African counterparts.
Do you see your illogic here Mike?
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Mike, you sinking in an intellectual quicksand with your dumb and illogical claims.
If your "black Europeans" exited Africa some 40-50KYA the what time did the "white Europeans" enter Europe?
You ignorant bastard.
Been here for years, there has been thousand of posts, yet you ask "When did your Albino people reach Europe.
He,he,he:
I know that you are playing Lionesses game, It's just that I like to insult you degenerate Albinos.
Answer: look up "The Kurgan hypothesis" And the Völkerwanderung (German for "wandering of the peoples").
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: But after leaving Africa for 40-50,000 years now your "black Europeans" should just be as Duffy positive as the white Europeans whose ancestors left Africa at the same time or even later.
But your "black Europeans" who you claim migrated to the U.S. in the last 250 years are just as Duffy negative as their African counterparts.
Do you see your illogic here Mike?
WHY???
Brain defect Albino boy, it does not matter when Blacks left Africa. I repeat - Duffy is about ALBINISM!!!
As long as they were Black, they would retain their "Duffy Negative" status!
posted
LOL. Desperate and clinging on a straw for dear life. It's like that. But educating the mentally obtuse must go on.
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: LOL. Desperate and clinging on a straw for dear life. It's like that. But educating the mentally obtuse must go on.
He,he,he:
Please don't tell me that you have run out of Albinos diseases and other nonsenses to post about! My,my, you Albinos are just too easy.
It only serves to prove that your conquest of European Blacks was the result of subterfuge. Probably with complaints about religious corruption as bait.
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Mike, you sinking in an intellectual quicksand with your dumb and illogical claims.
If your "black Europeans" exited Africa some 40-50KYA the what time did the "white Europeans" enter Europe?
You ignorant bastard.
Been here for years, there has been thousand of posts, yet you ask "When did your Albino people reach Europe.
He,he,he:
I know that you are playing Lionesses game, It's just that I like to insult you degenerate Albinos.
Answer: look up "The Kurgan hypothesis" And the Völkerwanderung (German for "wandering of the peoples").
Kurgan Timeline
4500–4000 BC: Early PIE. Sredny Stog, Dnieper-Donets and Samara cultures, domestication of the horse (Wave 1). 4000–3500 BC: The Pit Grave culture (a.k.a. yamna culture), the prototypical kurgan builders, emerges in the steppe, and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus. Indo-Hittite models postulate the separation of Proto-Anatolian before this time. 3500–3000: Middle PIE. The Pit Grave culture is at its peak, representing the classical reconstructed Proto-Indo-European society with stone idols, early two-wheeled proto-chariots, predominantly practicing animal husbandry in permanent settlements protected by hillforts, subsisting on agriculture, and fishing along rivers. Contact of the Pit Grave culture with late Neolithic Europe cultures results in the "kurganized" Globular Amphora and Baden cultures (Wave 2). The Maykop culture shows the earliest evidence of the beginning Bronze Age, and Bronze weapons and artifacts are introduced to Pit Grave territory. Probable early Satemization. 3000–2500 BC: Late PIE. The Pit Grave culture extends over the entire Pontic steppe (Wave 3). The Corded Ware culture extends from the Rhine to the Volga, corresponding to the latest phase of Indo-European unity, the vast "kurganized" area disintegrating into various independent languages and cultures, still in loose contact enabling the spread of technology and early loans between the groups, except for the Anatolian and Tocharian branches, which are already isolated from these processes. The Centum-Satem break is probably complete, but the phonetic trends of Satemization remain active.
Mike your answer to lamin "what time did the "white Europeans" enter Europe? " was the Kurgan hypothesis. That hypothesis centers around 3000 BC and earlier. That's 5000 years ago. It states the last phase Rhine to the Volga 3000–2500 BC. This is European pre-history well before the history period. Jamestown is 1607 AD
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posted
Martin Luther was a German monk, former Catholic priest, professor of theology and seminal figure of a reform movement in sixteenth century Christianity, subsequently known as the Protestant Reformation. He strongly disputed the claim that freedom from God's punishment for sin could be purchased with money. He confronted indulgence salesman Johann Tetzel with his Ninety-Five Theses in 1517. His refusal to retract all of his writings at the demand of Pope Leo X in 1520 and the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms in 1521 resulted in his excommunication by the pope and condemnation as an outlaw by the Emperor.
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^Read now how the Albinos Martin Luther (1483–1546) and John Calvin (1509–1564) duped "Fair-Minded" Black Lords into betraying their own kind, and ruined the Black Holy Roman Empire, under the guise of "Fairness and Religious Reform:"
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THE LUTHERAN REVOLT
During the early years of the 16th century, an anti-Roman and anti-Papal movement that eventually led to a revolt erupted in the German lands of the Holy Roman Empire. Modern Germany only came into existence in 1871. During the 16th century "Germany" was divided up into over 200 small duchies, principalities, and kingdoms (different designations for administrative units all technically loyal to the Holy Roman Emperor and whose heads were the Emperor's vassals). This revolt (called by historians the "Lutheran Revolt"), which involved both the upper and lower classes, and whose followers came to be known as Protestants because of their protest against the Church, became the impetus for the great religious movement known as the "Reformation." It took root in the German states of Württemberg, Hesse, Saxony, smaller northern German territories of the Holy Roman Empire, and Scandinavia.
Pope Leo X's excommunication of Luther had political repercussions. In the 16th century there was no clear division between religion and politics. Religion was a public matter and the Europe against which the Reformation played out was one of strong anti-Roman sentiment and growing patriotic feeling. There was national resentment, especially in England and the kingdoms of Germany, over the flow of papal taxes from these countries to Rome. Even long before Luther's actions, devout lay people and churchmen had called upon their secular leaders to reform the Church. Since the Church hierarchy had rejected his ideas, Luther recognized the need for secular leaders to be the agents of religious reform. Therefore, he called upon the German princes and requested that the state assume control over religious matters. Understandably many political rulers welcomed such a request since it bolstered their power. Nationalism, while still a very immature concept, was beginning to develop in the German lands of the Holy Roman Empire, challenging some people's loyalty to the Church in Rome. Any move a local ruler could make at the expense of the Church meant more power for him. (Explain the relationship between the Reformation and the institutional strength of the Holy Roman Empire.)
Rightfully fearing for his life, Luther sought refuge with the northern German princes. Under the protection of Frederick the Wise, Elector of Saxony (which is a title indicating he was one of the electors of the Holy Roman Emperor):
he continued with his revolutionary work, which included translating the Bible into German. This was the first time that the Holy Book had ever been rendered into the language of the people or the vernacular, which they could read for themselves as opposed to relying on the Church's interpretation. Hence Luther's notion of "the priesthood of all believers": each individual could serve as his or her own priest.
The Lutheran Revolt sparked a general rebellion against the economic, social, and political status quo. The Peasants' War of 1524-1525 was a culmination of the injustices faced by peasants in all three areas. Of all sectors of society, the peasants shouldered the burden of ecclesiastical (i.e., church) taxes most heavily. Also their resentment was particularly acute as both the clergy and feudal nobility were exempt from taxes. Moreover, rising costs of basic necessities made life increasingly more difficult. While most peasants probably did not understand the root of their misery, they were easily influenced by demagogues who promised an improvement in their condition. Such was the situation in 1524 when peasants in a large part of Germany, stirred by the new religious ideas and suffering from economic privation, rose up against their treatment at the hands of nobles and the nascent merchant class. Subsistence agriculture also underwent a subtle change in this period. The capitalist drive to squeeze more profits from the countryside undermined the basic security (however minimal) of the peasants' social contract with their lords. The peasants demanded in a manifesto titled "The 12 Articles," the abolition of serfdom, the regulation of rents and the protection of certain common rights such as hunting, grazing, and fishing. In short, the articles represented a protest against the oppressive rule of their overlords. The peasants believed that their demands conformed to Scripture and expected Luther to support their revolt. Organizing into armies, they besieged the estates of feudal lords and Church properties, plundering and looting as they went.
Initially Luther sided with the peasants, whom he admired for their ceaseless labor. In his Admonition to Peace Luther harshly criticized the lords for their mistreatment of the peasants. But once widespread violence broke out, Luther withdrew his support entirely. He was horrified especially when the peasants moved beyond attacks on Catholics and targeted his own followers in the nobility. The peasants, Luther said, had misinterpreted his rejection of authority. Luther's idea of "freedom" of man in his Liberty of the Christian Man meant the freedom of the Christian man or woman to obey the Word of the Lord without regard for the authority of the Roman Church. He rejected the peasants' claim that their demands for radical reform had biblical support. Nowhere, Luther said, did Scripture advocate revolt for earthly justice or material gain.
Luther rejected the peasants' manifesto, and in a treatise titled Against the Murderous and Thieving Hordes of Peasants (1525) he appealed to the German princes to crush the peasants and preserve divinely appointed authority. The peasants were mercilessly put down by the governing authorities, at a cost of 100,000 lives. Disillusioned by Luther's support for the status quo, the peasants accused him of betrayal. As a result many abandoned Lutheranism and went back to the Church.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: In following up on the stupidness posted by lamin on Black American genetics, I decided to see just exactly where the Albinos are getting these numbers.
As a reminder:
About 550,000 of the 10-12 million African Slaves transported to the Americas
lamin, Mike's theory, I kid you not, the Catholics of Europe were black and were overthrown by evil white protestants
Here's Frederick III of Saxony (1463 – 1525), also known as Frederick the Wise whom we can easily see was black
Frederick was Pope Leo X's candidate for Holy Roman Emperor in 1519—the pope had awarded him the Golden Rose of virtue on 3 September 1518—but he helped secure the election of Charles V. Charles V was another black Catholic. Charles V, Emperor of Austria and King of Spain granted licenses to his trusted and favorite courtiers to transport African slaves to the new world.
So as we can see the tranatlantic slave trade was started by black European Catholics and then usurped by evil white protestants
gatekeeper, Mike's World
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The Holy Roman Empire was potentially Europe’s greatest state. However, by 1600 the Holy Roman Empire was a mere shadow of its former glory. The heart of the Holy Roman Empire had been Germany. But by 1600, a better term for the area would have been "Germanies" as the heart of the Holy Roman Empire had become split into a mass of princes and states who since the time of Luther had done what they could to extend their independence and power at the expense of the emperor. The real power within Germany lay with 30 secular and 50 ecclesiastical princes.
The most important states belonged to the seven Electors - men who selected the future Holy Roman Emperor. These were the Duke of Saxony, the Margrave of Brandenburg, the King of Bavaria, the Count Palatine of the Rhine and the three archbishops of Mainz, Trier and Cologne. The seven Electors were referred to as the First Estate. The Second Estate was the non-Electoral princes and the Third Estate contained the leaders of the 80 Imperial Free cities. All three Estates jealously guarded their privileges - all at the expense of the emperor. In theory, all the princes in the Holy Roman Empire were subservient to the emperor. But this was simply in theory. In practice the German princes could do what they liked free from Imperial interference and had done so for nearly 75 years since the time of Luther.
The emperor was a territorial magnate in his own right. The emperor owned land in Inner, Upper, Lower and Further Austria. The emperor also controlled Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia and Lusatia. The most valued area was considered to be Bohemia. When Rudolf II became Holy Roman Emperor in 1576, he made Prague - the capital of Bohemia - his base.
Rudolf II was a curious man. He had frequent bouts of insanity which allowed the structure of his government to be undermined. More and more of the Holy Roman Empire’s work was taken on by Matthias, the third brother of Rudolf, though he had not been given permission to do this by Rudolf. By 1600, the Habsburg Court seemed to be on the verge of breaking up under the strain of having an emperor who could not govern combined with a man who did not have a remit to rule.
The German princes tried to take advantage of this problem but in 1600 rather than combine their efforts, they were split amongst themselves. The most important German princes were :
The Elector of the Palatinate : he was considered the most important Elector of the seven. He owned the Lower Palatine - a rich wine growing area - and the Upper Palatine - a relatively poor area between the Danube and Bohemia. In 1600 the Elector was Frederick. He was a Calvinist. His state was well run and he was a firm upholder of Protestantism and did he utmost to stop the spread of the Counter-Reformation. He could have been an important leader of the German princes except that he was distrusted by them. However, Frederick was keen to build up foreign support especially from the United Provinces, England, Bohemia and Austria. He also courted support from anti-Habsburg powers such as France, Savoy and Venice. Any regional crisis involving Frederick was bound to attract international concerns.
Elector John of Saxony : John was a Lutheran. He was frequently drunk and far from cultured. His main priority was the maintenance of peace in Germany though few were clear about the methods he wanted to use. He was a strong believer in German liberty and saw the Habsburgs belief in absolute authority as a clear threat to this. He classed Calvinists and Catholics as his enemies and it was difficult to assess whose side he was actually on. John had the potential to be a destabilising factor in Germany.
Maximilian of Bavaria : he was one of the most able of German princes. His long years in power had enabled him to become an able administrator and Bavaria had a stable, solvent and modern government. He designed the Catholic League to serve his purposes but he also suggested that it could join with the Protestant Evangelical Union to preserve German princely independence against the Habsburgs. To the Holy Roman Emperor, Maximilian, though a Catholic, appeared to be a rival.
The Elector of Brandenburg, John Sigismund : he owned the largest possessions in Germany but they were also the poorest. In 1618, John acquired Prussia which gave him an outlet to the sea via Konigsberg. Most of his subjects were Lutheran but John was a Calvinist. He feared a Habsburg invasion of his territories and did his best not to upset them. However, he also tended to follow the lead of the maverick John of Saxony. His territories were fragmented and future Electors were wise enough to modernise the state’s internal communications.
The divisions among the princes and the Holy Roman Emperor created an unstable situation in central Europe. Spain, in particular, wanted a strong Habsburg presence in central Europe. A number of apparently minor crises occurred which needed prompt action by the Habsburgs to ensure that their authority was maintained. Spain was drawn into a central European issue because of her family ties with Austria. However, any Spanish involvement in central Europe was bound to be provocative; in particular, countries like France would have viewed any such moves with great concern once again resurrecting her fears of Habsburgs encirclement.
One of Germany’s main problems was that the northern states were still divided over religion, though, ironically, it was division among the Protestant states. After the Religious Peace of Augsburg (1555), Protestant states had split along two different lines. There were those states that wanted a flexible approach to Protestantism - known as the Phillipists. These states saw value in some of the ideas of Calvin and Zwingli and saw no harm in adopting a combination of Protestant beliefs. Opposed to these states were the hard line Lutheran states. In 1577 these states produced the "Formula of Accord" which clearly stated their position and the Phillipist states responded to this by switching openly to Calvin. Therefore, there was an obvious spilt amongst the Protestant world in Germany and there was a failure to create a common front against the Catholic Church.
This allowed the Catholic Church some gains in Germany. In the 1580’s, the Archbishop of Cologne wanted to secularise his land in Cologne. This would have been very lucrative for him but it also broke the terms of the Imperial Reservation in the 1555 Augsburg Settlement which forbade such a move. He was removed from his position by the Holy Roman Emperor who sent Spanish troops to enforce his authority. This was a perfectly legal move by the emperor. A ‘true’ Catholic replacement was found. But Spanish troops so near to the western French border was not well received in Paris.
The Protestant Evangelical Union was founded in response to this. It was a defensive alliance of 9 princes and 17 Imperial cities. It was lead by the Elector Palatine and its general was Christian of Anhalt. This union was predominantly Calvinist and many Lutheran leaders stayed away from it as they felt that its existence could lead to anarchy.
In response to this Union, Maximilian of Bavaria founded the Catholic League in 1609. Ironically, he did not ask the Catholic Austrian Habsburgs to join it - a symbol of just how far the status of the Habsburg’s had fallen. Phillip III of Spain sent financial aid to maintain some Habsburg involvement but his involvement in a central European issue was bound to provoke the French.
A major crisis did occur over some very minor German states - a sign of just how fragile the peace of central Europe was. The crisis involved the five states of Julich, Cleves, Mark, Berg and Ravensberg. All five were owned by just one family. The five states were a rich mixture of religions with Julich and Berg being Catholic; Mark and Ravensberg were Lutheran and Cleves was Calvinist.
In 1609, the Duke of Julich-Cleves died without an heir. By law, the Holy Roman Emperor could appoint a temporary head of state until an enquiry worked out who would be the next legitimate head of state. Rudolf II appointed his nephew Leopold as Imperial Commissary to take full possession of the five states until a proper heir could be decided on. What Rudolf II did was appropriate and correct according to Imperial law.
Two relatives of the dead duke’s sister took matters into their own hands when they announced that they would occupy the states. This contravened accepted Imperial law and Leopold seized Julich in Rudolf’s name.
Not wishing to see an extension of Imperial authority so far north-west in the Germany (the general rule of thumb was that the further away a state was from Vienna, the less it was loyal to the Holy Roman Emperor) France and Holland gave their support to the two relatives. Maurice of Orange lead a Dutch force to capture Julich and he installed a Dutch garrison there.
Europe looked on the verge of war but the assassination of Henry IV of France took the sting out of the situation and calmed down the situation. The tension was further reduced in 1612 when Rudolf II died. The Julich-Cleves Affair was solved in 1614 by the handing out of the states to the two relatives who had challenged Rudolf’s authority in 1609.
Some state leaders were concerned that seemingly trivial issues were pushing Europe to the verge of war. Some, such as the chief advisor to the Holy Roman Emperor, Cardinal Khlesl and the Archbishop of Mainz tried to defuse the situation. Their chances were slim. It only needed one incident to spark off a major war. That was to occur in Bohemia.
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Mike you need to be concise and clear about what the point you are trying to make, now you are simply copy and pasting overly long standard accounts of the Protestant reformation which was a reaction against clerical heirarchy and intsitutional corruption. You should be extracting the parts where the Protestants are saying we need to get these black Catholics out of here
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