posted
This reminds me of that World History Connected interview with Christopher Ehret when he talked about how early Afrisan communities were henotheistic and only later turned polytheistic (and then of course monotheistic), in that early communities took on their own gods but incorporated lesser/equal Gods into their pantheon to accommodate multi-ethnic bonds, as would have been the case for the first proto-Semites arriving in the middle East from Africa who'd have encountered indigenous cultures already present with their own developing religious traditions. Later these Gods would splinter leading to local lineages adhering to their preference (Ba'al, Yahweh, Ra). It appears Ashera, a fertility goddesss was among this pantheon of Gods and now we have trace evidence leading back to a time when she was worshiped right alongside Yahweh.
quote:GOD'S WIFE EDITED OUT OF THE BIBLE -- ALMOST
God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshiped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar.
In 1967, Raphael Patai was the first historian to mention that the ancient Israelites worshiped both Yahweh and Asherah. The theory has gained new prominence due to the research of Francesca Stavrakopoulou, who began her work at Oxford and is now a senior lecturer in the department of Theology and Religion at the University of Exeter.
Information presented in Stavrakopoulou's books, lectures and journal papers has become the basis of a three-part documentary series, now airing in Europe, where she discusses the Yahweh-Asherah connection.
"You might know him as Yahweh, Allah or God. But on this fact, Jews, Muslims and Christians, the people of the great Abrahamic religions, are agreed: There is only one of Him," writes Stavrakopoulou in a statement released to the British media. "He is a solitary figure, a single, universal creator, not one God among many ... or so we like to believe."
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"After years of research specializing in the history and religion of Israel, however, I have come to a colorful and what could seem, to some, uncomfortable conclusion that God had a wife," she added.
Stavrakopoulou bases her theory on ancient texts, amulets and figurines unearthed primarily in the ancient Canaanite coastal city called Ugarit, now modern-day Syria. All of these artifacts reveal that Asherah was a powerful fertility goddess.
Asherah's connection to Yahweh, according to Stavrakopoulou, is spelled out in both the Bible and an 8th century B.C. inscription on pottery found in the Sinai desert at a site called Kuntillet Ajrud.
"The inscription is a petition for a blessing," she shares. "Crucially, the inscription asks for a blessing from 'Yahweh and his Asherah.' Here was evidence that presented Yahweh and Asherah as a divine pair. And now a handful of similar inscriptions have since been found, all of which help to strengthen the case that the God of the Bible once had a wife."
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Also significant, Stavrakopoulou believes, "is the Bible's admission that the goddess Asherah was worshiped in Yahweh's Temple in Jerusalem. In the Book of Kings, we're told that a statue of Asherah was housed in the temple and that female temple personnel wove ritual textiles for her."
J. Edward Wright, president of both The Arizona Center for Judaic Studies and The Albright Institute for Archaeological Research, told Discovery News that he agrees several Hebrew inscriptions mention "Yahweh and his Asherah."
"Asherah was not entirely edited out of the Bible by its male editors," he added. "Traces of her remain, and based on those traces, archaeological evidence and references to her in texts from nations bordering Israel and Judah, we can reconstruct her role in the religions of the Southern Levant."
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Asherah -- known across the ancient Near East by various other names, such as Astarte and Istar -- was "an important deity, one who was both mighty and nurturing," Wright continued.
"Many English translations prefer to translate 'Asherah' as 'Sacred Tree,'" Wright said. "This seems to be in part driven by a modern desire, clearly inspired by the Biblical narratives, to hide Asherah behind a veil once again."
"Mentions of the goddess Asherah in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) are rare and have been heavily edited by the ancient authors who gathered the texts together," Aaron Brody, director of the Bade Museum and an associate professor of Bible and archaeology at the Pacific School of Religion, said.
Asherah as a tree symbol was even said to have been "chopped down and burned outside the Temple in acts of certain rulers who were trying to 'purify' the cult, and focus on the worship of a single male god, Yahweh," he added.
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The ancient Israelites were polytheists, Brody told Discovery News, "with only a small minority worshiping Yahweh alone before the historic events of 586 B.C." In that year, an elite community within Judea was exiled to Babylon and the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. This, Brody said, led to "a more universal vision of strict monotheism: one god not only for Judah, but for all of the nations."
http://news.discovery.com/history/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.html#mkcpgn=rssnws1
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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First off their proof is that Ashterah was worshipped by Israel?? first off anyone familiar with the O.T knows Israel was known for worshipping(to the anger of Ahyah) different Gods.
Also in Jeremiah
Thus saith the LORD, Go and get a potter's earthen bottle, and take of the ancients of the people, and of the ancients of the priests;
2And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the east gate, and proclaim there the words that I shall tell thee,
3And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.
4Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
5They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
6Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
7And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
Jeremiah 7
1The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
2Stand in the gate of the LORD's house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the LORD.
3Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place.
4Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.
5For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
6If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
7Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
8Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
9Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
10And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
11Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.
12But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel.
13And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the LORD, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not;
14Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh.
15And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim.
16Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
17Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
18The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
19Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
20Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
21Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
22For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
24But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
25Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:
26Yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers.
27Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee.
28But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the LORD their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
29Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the LORD hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.
30For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
31And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
32Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
33And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.
34Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
...if God had a wife what does that make Mary? A one night stand? Do I have to forgive Him for that or is sex outside marriage now ok?
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
You might know him as Yahweh, Allah or God.
The God of the Hebrews and thus the Xtian God is NOT Allah.
A God of Love Versus a God of Hate
God, as revealed in the Bible, is a God of love who cares for and desires the best for His creations. He is merciful, full of grace and compassion, and seeks to restore a humanity alienated from him by sin. "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) We are told in the Bible that God does not desire the damnation of any soul, but wants all to come to Him through Christ for forgiveness of their sins and reception of eternal life. It is God "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (I Timothy 2:4). God, in his great mercy towards mankind, has provided to mankind an Advocate before His heavenly throne, Jesus Christ, who intercedes on behalf of the Christian before the Father, and who shed His blood to free lost and sinful men and women from the wrath of God against sin. "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." (I John 2:1-2) These verses illustrate the position and activity of Christ as both Savior and Advocate. He is the propitiation for our sins, meaning that the shedding of His sinless blood in sacrifice for us satisfied the demands of God's wrath against sin, and that this act of grace was performed for the whole world, for every man, woman, and child who has lived and ever will live. Likewise, He is the Advocate, the one who stands before the throne of the Father and pleads His own righteousness on behalf of those who have trusted in Him as Savior, if we sin.
This contrasts with the quranic Allah, who hates sinners and has made no provision for their reconciliation to him.[b] "..and Allah loveth not those that do wrong." (Surah 3:140) - "Contend not on behalf of such as betray their own souls; for Allah loveth not one given to perfidy and sin." (Surah 4:107) - [b]"Those who reject Faith and do wrong,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any way- Except the way of Hell, to dwell therein for ever. And this to Allah is easy."[b] (Surah 4:168-169) - "....And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious." (Surah 5:49) - "The Unbelievers will be addressed: "Greater was the aversion of Allah to you than (is) your aversion to yourselves, seeing that ye were called to the Faith and ye used to refuse." (Surah 40:10) As presented in the Qur'an,[b]Allah is a vindictive deity who desires to afflict sinners, not save them. This understanding of Allah seems to be the orthodox Islamic position. Note the passage below:
"This is the covenant which you make with Allah as soon as you recite La ilaha illallah, and in doing so you make the whole world your witness. If you violate this covenant, your hand and feet, the minutest hair on your body and every particle of the earth and of the heaven before which you made that false declaration, will render evidence against you in the court of Allah where you will be in the dock in such a helpless condition that not a single defence witness will be available to you. No Advocate or Barrister will be there to plead your case...." 9
As demonstrated here, breaking the covenant made with Allah, which is the covenant to live and abide by Islamic law and practice, will result in being hauled before the court of Allah completely defenseless, with no hope of ever being either redeemed from your sin or of being saved from the wrath of Allah. Of course, the way in which this covenant is broken is by apostatizing from Islam, not by committing some other gross or negligent personal sin. Indeed, the main thrust of the quranic verses mentioned above seems to be the condemnation of those who "betray their own soul" and who were "called to the faith" and refused, essentially choosing to reject Islam.
Further, the Qur'an contains a great deal about the types of people who Allah hates, usually understood to be those who have rejected Islam, or who will not convert to it:
* Transgressors (2:190) * Ungrateful and wicked creatures (2:276) * Those who reject faith (3:32; 30:45) * Those who do wrong (3:57, 140; 42:40) * The arrogant, the vainglorious (4:36; 16:23; 31:18; 57:23) * One given to perfidy and crime (4:107) * Those who do mischief (5:64; 28:77) * Those given to excess (5:87) * Wasters (6:141; 7:31) * Those who trespass beyond bounds (7:55) * Treacherous (8:58) * Ungrateful (22:38) * Those who exult in riches (28:76)
This does not reconcile with the God of the Bible who, while hating sin and the performance of sin, also loves sinners and seeks to turn them from their wicked ways. "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) This passage illustrates to us God's amazing love, His willingness to send His Son Jesus Christ to die in our place, to take the wrath against sin upon ourselves, even though we are all sinners. Further, God's attitude toward the damnation and punishment of sinners is shown in Ezekiel 18:23, "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways and live?" While Allah may hate all who are not righteous and even seek their damnation, God loves them and has made abundant provision for them to receive forgiveness and eternal life. Truly, human beings go to hell in spite of the undeserved grace that God seeks to give to them.
The reason for this difference in the perception of God between Christians and Muslims has to do with the perception of love. The former believe in a God who loved them enough to send His Son to die for them even while they were still sinners, the latter believe Allah hates any who do not conform to his demands. As noted earlier, love is a necessary part of a reconciled relationship. Yet, Islam rejects love from being an attribute of Allah's character. Self-sacrificial love is considered to be weakness in the Islamic mindset, and to say that God loves is tantamount to saying that God is weak and vulnerable. Youssef, himself a former Muslim, describes the mindset this way,
"The concept of love as one of God's attributes is conspicuously missing from Islam because in Islamic thought love is a sign of weakness. Far be it from Allah, the all-powerful, to be weak. To love is to be vulnerable, and far be it from Allah to be vulnerable. But love also produces genuine confidence and hope and teaches the beloved to love freely and generously in return. Islam has no concept of the strength of love or of the characteristic qualities of love as desirable. The Koran gives no knowledge of the perfect love of God in Jesus Christ, which casts out fear and which is strong enough to overcome death and inaugurate eternal life. Muslims cannot rest in the promise of a faithful God who assures that nothing will separate them from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
"In Islam, God and man are wary of each other, in contrast to Christianity, in which God and man are in love with each other. This difference is of great importance because it lies at the heart of the tensions Muslims feel toward Christians. The same relationship that exists between God and humans in each of the two religions exists by extension between the humans. Christians are taught to love their neighbors as they have first experienced Christ's love. Muslims are taught - many exhortations to charity notwithstanding - to judge, condemn, and even eliminate their neighbors if they fail to measure up to a certain standard of faith and practice, because that is how they expect Allah to deal with them."10
Contrast this view of the lack of love in God's character with that expressed by God in the Bible,
"And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations." (Ezekiel 6:9)
The sin of God's people may lead to chastisement, but He does not seek their destruction. Instead, their sin breaks His heart (talk about vulnerability!), and He desires for them to return to Him. He does not want to destroy them, He wants to restore them as they repent of their sins against Him.
The lack of assuring knowledge of God's love for them is much of the reason why the spirit of Islam is so harsh and hateful towards those who are not submitted to its system. Because Allah does not love self-sacrificially - and he certainly does not love those who are not Muslims - neither does the orthodox, fundamentalist Muslim trying to live by the letter of the Qur'an. The Muslim cannot claim that Allah loves him or her. He or she has no true hope or assurance of salvation from all the efforts made in this life. The Muslim is instead left hanging in limbo, never quite knowing if he or she has "done enough" to please Allah at the Last Day. As Youssef further tells us about this,
"The harshness of Islam is the direct result of its uncertainty about salvation and eternity. Not only are people what they worship, but they become what they fear. The Muslim's fear of Allah's judgment and condemnation turns outward into the same kind of action toward others. Grace and forgiveness are rare attributes of God or man in Islam, which proves a common saying that 'Islam is as arid as the deserts of its birth.'"11
As Youssef rightly perceives, we become what we worship.Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Ashterot was consort to Baal Sr. (EL). The God of the hebrews, Yahweh, had no consort. Nothing was omitted from the bible. It just so happened, the Hebrews developed their own 'pantheon' and, the last I checked, they have a right to develop their own brand of mythos. If anything, the nation of the Jews was the wife of G-d.
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^^^^ Exactly but the Hebrews did worship and build alters to other Gods. Asterah was not an acception, but because Atheists read "Queen of Heaven" in the O.T they get a boner and start claiming things with no evidence. If Ashterah was the queen of the Hebrew God why would God Send Jeremiah to condemn Israel for making offerings to her.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed: Ashterot was consort to Baal Sr. (EL). The God of the hebrews, Yahweh, had no consort. Nothing was omitted from the bible.
Limited thinking. The fact that she was consort to both at different times agrees again with Ehret's suggestion of a henotheistic beginning. The inscriptions and even the Bible passages posted by Jari and acknowledged by the article shows that Hebrews worshiped her as such. Funny they found this in the 8th Century B.C.E., when Taharqa smacked the Assyrians out of Israel (and saved it from destruction), which Henry T. Aubun argues was pivotal as the concept of Israel as a monotheistic, God-elect state had yet been developed.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ...if God had a wife what does that make Mary? A one night stand? Do I have to forgive Him for that or is sex outside marriage now ok?
Yahweh and Ashera by this point in time had long been divorced, so I don't think you should hold it against him. Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Exactly but the Hebrews did worship and build alters to other Gods. Asterah was not an acception, but because Atheists read "Queen of Heaven" in the O.T they get a boner and start claiming things with no evidence. If Ashterah was the queen of the Hebrew God why would God Send Jeremiah to condemn Israel for making offerings to her.
By the way, I didn't post this to step on anyone's religious beliefs, this post was kind of for the secular crowd. Debate around this issue (the existence of 'God') is rather entertaining/stimulating but sometimes I refuse to engage it due to its sensitive nature.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Showing that the Hebrews worshipped Ashterot (or any other god) is meaningless and, frankly, has no bearing on whether she was wife to G-d. This brand of worship was never sanctioned by Cohenim H'Ysrael. There is no limited thinking on my part but perhaps there is on yours.
The scripture is quite plain, to be honest. There is NO partnership to the Hebrew G-d, none. If so, please produce the hebrew text to demonstrate this.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Limited thinking. The fact that she was consort to both at different times agrees again with Ehret's suggestion of a henotheistic beginning. The inscriptions and even the Bible passages posted by Jari and acknowledged by the article shows that Hebrews worshiped her as such. Funny they found this in the 8th Century B.C.E., when Taharqa smacked the Assyrians out of Israel (and saved it from destruction), which Henry T. Aubun argues was pivotal as the concept of Israel as a monotheistic, God-elect state had yet been developed. [/QB]
posted
When were the scriptures you are referring to written as the archaeological finds date to the 8th century B.C. and again, what about Aubun's research that Israel was not at this time seen as God's elect state? What about Ehret's research (that I posted) showing that even within the Old Testament, Yahweh didn't necessarily deny the existence of these other gods?
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: Showing that the Hebrews worshipped Ashterot (or any other god) is meaningless and, frankly, has no bearing on whether she was wife to G-d. This brand of worship was never sanctioned by the Cohenim H'Ysrael. There is no limited thinking on my part but perhaps there is on yours.
The scripture is quite plain, to be honest. There is NO partnership to the Hebrew G-d, none. If so, please produce the hebrew text to demonstrate this.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Limited thinking. The fact that she was consort to both at different times agrees again with Ehret's suggestion of a henotheistic beginning. The inscriptions and even the Bible passages posted by Jari and acknowledged by the article shows that Hebrews worshiped her as such. Funny they found this in the 8th Century B.C.E., when Taharqa smacked the Assyrians out of Israel (and saved it from destruction), which Henry T. Aubun argues was pivotal as the concept of Israel as a monotheistic, God-elect state had yet been developed.
[/QB]
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
You post up some rogue research and that is supposed to mean something? In the OT, the only thing Yahweh acknowledges to exist as a 'god' aside from his persons is the elil (idol god). Again, show in their own text where there exists another G-d, like his persons.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: When were the scriptures you are referring to written as the archaeological finds date to the 8th century B.C. and again, what about Aubun's research that Israel was not at this time seen as God's elect state? What about Ehret's research (that I posted) showing that even within the old testemate, Yahweh didn't necessarily deny the existence of these other gods?
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: Showing that the Hebrews worshipped Ashterot (or any other god) is meaningless and, frankly, has no bearing on whether she was wife to G-d. This brand of worship was never sanctioned by the Cohenim H'Ysrael. There is no limited thinking on my part but perhaps there is on yours.
The scripture is quite plain, to be honest. There is NO partnership to the Hebrew G-d, none. If so, please produce the hebrew text to demonstrate this.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Limited thinking. The fact that she was consort to both at different times agrees again with Ehret's suggestion of a henotheistic beginning. The inscriptions and even the Bible passages posted by Jari and acknowledged by the article shows that Hebrews worshiped her as such. Funny they found this in the 8th Century B.C.E., when Taharqa smacked the Assyrians out of Israel (and saved it from destruction), which Henry T. Aubun argues was pivotal as the concept of Israel as a monotheistic, God-elect state had yet been developed.
posted
^I'm not sure the research is necessarily rouge as opposed to well-reasoned. It was generally assumed/implied that other gods existed actually all the way up until the Book of Isaiah, where we see the first definitive statement of monotheism. This book was written, I don't think coincidentally, in the 8th century B.C. according to scholars. Anyways, at your request:
Exodus 18:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly."
Exodus 34:14 For you shall worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Chronicles 2:5 "The temple I am going to build will be great, because our God is greater than all other gods.
Psalm 95:3
"For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.
Judges 11:24 Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? Likewise, whatever the LORD our God has given us, we will possess.
Samuel 26:19 Now therefore, I pray thee, let my lord the king hear the words of his servant. If the LORD have stirred thee up against me, let him accept an offering: but if [they be] the children of men, cursed [be] they before the LORD; for they have driven me out this day from abiding in the inheritance of the LORD, saying, Go, serve other gods.
^Most of those strike me as very henotheistic.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
You are confused. In Torah the Hebrews and servants of God always acknowledged other "Gods" who were associated with Idols. This fact does not prove that God had a wife. The so called wife was actually the Wife of Baal, Ashterah. Worship of Ashterah was forbidden in the book of Jeremiah.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^I'm not sure the research is necessarily rouge as opposed to well-reasoned. It was generally assumed/implied that other Gods existed actually all the way up until the Book of Isaiah, where we see the first definitive statement of monotheism. This book was written, I don't think coincidentally, in the 8th century B.C. according to scholars. Anyways, at your request:
Exodus 18:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly."
Exodus 34:14 For you shall worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Judges 11:24 Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? Likewise, whatever the LORD our God has given us, we will possess.
Samuel 26:19 Now therefore, I pray thee, let my lord the king hear the words of his servant. If the LORD have stirred thee up against me, let him accept an offering: but if [they be] the children of men, cursed [be] they before the LORD; for they have driven me out this day from abiding in the inheritance of the LORD, saying, Go, serve other gods.
^A few of those strike me as very henotheistic.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^The book of Jeremiah was written after the Book of Isaiah, which as stated seemed to coincide with the foundation of Israel's transition into a monothestic state, which is why chronology is important. So, something written in the Book of Jeremiah is not relevant to the argument. As far as idolatry, we'd have to analyze the text likely to substantiate whether or not these quotes referred to idols in the context of "Yahweh" being declared 'greater' than these said representative idols. What part of these texts do you suppose suggests idol worship, Jari, as opposed to Ehret's henotheism?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: ...if God had a wife what does that make Mary? A one night stand? Do I have to forgive Him for that or is sex outside marriage now ok?
Sorry, but Mary was Jesus's girl, not God's. Oops, you mean Mary Of Israel. My bad.
Incidentally, the Bible also edited Lilith out of the garden. Probably because it's clear connection to Blood Libel.
But as we all should realize by now, the Bible is a fiction compiled and edited by those who had bias and political motives, not to mention edited thousands of times with introduction of tens of thousands of errors per dit that can be only sorted out with the help of one entity on earth, The Vatican. And they ain't speaking.
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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quote:Modern Rabbinical Judaism is monotheistic, but the historical religion of ancient Israel and Judah (10th to 7th centuries BC) were henotheistic. For example, the Moabites worshipped the god Chemosh, the Edomites, Qaus, both of whom were part of the greater Canaanite pantheon, headed by the chief god, El. The Canaanite pantheon consisted of El and Asherat as the chief deities, with 70 sons who were said to rule over each of the nations of the earth. These sons were each worshiped within a specific region. K. L. Noll states that "the Bible preserves a tradition that Yahweh used to 'live' in the south, in the land of Edom" and that the original god of Israel was El Shaddai (K. L. Noll, Canaan and Israel in Antiquity: An Introduction, Continuum, 2002, p.123).
^Curiously, El Shaddai is thought by some to have originally been associated with fertility.
-------------------- mr.writer.asa@gmail.com Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Gentile oppression over Jerusalem culminates with the Antichrist exalting himself as he takes his seat in the Temple of God, proclaiming himself as being God (2Thes 2:4). When Christ returns, the gentile nations are judged on the basis of their treatment of God's covenant people Israel, during the time of the Tribulation period (Matthew 25:31-46). Then Christ rules the nations "with a rod of iron" for 1000 years and Satan and his evil angels are bound and removed to the abyss (Revelation 20). The earth is restored from the destruction of the tribulation, repopulated and God's saints serve him. Great prosperity and blessing is in store for Israel as the head of the nations with its world capital Jerusalem , and with Christ reigning on the throne of His father David.
Tell us, has Jesus come?
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
Come on dude, are you freggin serious?!?! Is this like, lets sound bite scripture night? Moses was referring to the gods of Egypt...
Exd 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I [am] the LORD.
At times the writers referred to the false gods as gods of nations, at times as idols, at times strange gods and also as false gods. Dude, come on.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: ^I'm not sure the research is necessarily rouge as opposed to well-reasoned. It was generally assumed/implied that other gods existed actually all the way up until the Book of Isaiah, where we see the first definitive statement of monotheism. This book was written, I don't think coincidentally, in the 8th century B.C. according to scholars. Anyways, at your request:
Exodus 18:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly."
Exodus 34:14 For you shall worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Chronicles 2:5 "The temple I am going to build will be great, because our God is greater than all other gods.
Psalm 95:3
"For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.
Judges 11:24 Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? Likewise, whatever the LORD our God has given us, we will possess.
Samuel 26:19 Now therefore, I pray thee, let my lord the king hear the words of his servant. If the LORD have stirred thee up against me, let him accept an offering: but if [they be] the children of men, cursed [be] they before the LORD; for they have driven me out this day from abiding in the inheritance of the LORD, saying, Go, serve other gods.
posted
^You haven't commented on anything I wrote. Ok, what is your explanation as to how monotheism developed in the southern Levant then?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
^I havent commented on anything? Dude, I just explained to you the meaning of "god" in the verses you quoted. What did you not get?
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jan 2011
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I edited my post and I'll also add that not all of those quotes were from the Torah. You haven't addressed any of the research, and what about my question?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Wasn't this topic discussed before?? I recall years ago a thread created by Ausar about an archaeological find in Egypt which revealed an early Israelite community which worshiped Yahweh and his wife Asherah. If Ausar or anyone else can pull this past thread up from the archives it would be very helpful.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^^Ehret: Yeah, actually it is. Look at the first commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." It's not like the Muslim creed, which is "There is no God but God." It's doesn't say "there is no god but Yahweh, and Moses is his prophet." It is an admittance that there are other gods. It is an example of henotheism. And the Hebrew tribes are like the Omati clan groups.
Do you really want me to comment on this? LOL! This is not serious scholarship. This person takes one passage and runs with it? Other gods infers the gods of the nations, that is to say, IDOLS!
Posts: 270 | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
^ Actually the statement of not having other gods before me, implies that the worship of other gods was allowed but that the chief deity always came first.
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: This reminds me of that World History Connected interview with Christopher Ehret when he talked about how early Afrisan communities were henotheistic and only later turned polytheistic (and then of course monotheistic),...
Actually it went in the order of polytheism to henotheism and then to monotheism. Henotheism is when the worship of a single deity above others within a group of people. It is only from henotheism that monotheism or the worship of that god alone is possible.
Posts: 26286 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Actually the statement of not having other gods before me, implies that the worship of other gods was allowed but that the chief deity always came first.
Thats not true, the commandment is clear. No where in Torah does God allow for other gods to be worshipped along with him.
You need to seriously read the O.T before making comments because you can't misinterpret one passage claim one passage as proof of your argument and ignore other passages.
Show us one time on Torah where God allowd Israel to worship other Gods along with him and it went unpunished.
Giganti wrote..
^^Ehret: Yeah, actually it is. Look at the first commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." It's not like the Muslim creed, which is "There is no God but God." It's doesn't say "there is no god but Yahweh, and Moses is his prophet." It is an admittance that there are other gods. It is an example of henotheism. And the Hebrew tribes are like the Omati clan groups.
Do you really want me to comment on this? LOL! This is not serious scholarship. This person takes one passage and runs with it? Other gods infers the gods of the nations, that is to say, IDOLS!
LOL, seriously this guy is a clown. First off the "Muslim" creedo(Like everything with Islam) was plagerized from the Hebrew Credo...
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.-Deut. 6:4
This guy is a wrong on that point. Hebrews saw God as one God. All other evidence is flimsy at best.
Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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