A anonymous noble man at the Habsburg court at Malines by Bloemaert
St Maurice (1120, German.
EUROPE, A BLACK CIVILISATION (1500-1789)
Any thinking person confronted with these artefacts would immediately believe to be looking at a black civilisation. If not one could assume that blacks formed an important part in that civilisation. More interestingly, these pieces were used by the European elite, the highest nobility, referred to as Blue blood.
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Black researchers do not have to proof, time and time again, that there were blacks in Europe. Frank M. Snowden (1971) proofed that there were blacks in Antiquity, in Europe till at least the early Christian Era (800BC-300AD) based on art and written sources.
Mike Nassau writes about Black Dutch: black Europeans arriving in the USA from Germany looking like Africans. His approach is Eurocentric. He distinguishes between ‘blacks’ and ‘true blacks.’Descriptions and images from the people of Pays de Vaud, Swiss, shows African features, not only black hair and eyes. Van Beethoven had black skin. Interestingly the cult of the black Saint Maurice started in the South of Germany
quote:3. Schwarze Deutsche or Black Germans, found along the Danube River in Austria and Germany, in the Black Forest and, to a lesser extent, along the Rhine River, have dark hair and eyes, unlike the fairer people both north and south of them. Their descendants in America may be called either Black Dutch or Black German. The origin of their dark coloration is ancient, from the Roman army in the third and fourth centuries, C.E. The Roman army of this time period was mostly made up of German mercenary soldiers, but along the German border, the Romans preferred to station non-Germans. The army on the Danube was largely drawn from Numidian and Nubian soldiers, especially Garamante Numidians. The Garamante (called Tubu now) were Black Africans from the central Sahara. Now the Tubu live in northern Chad, eastern Niger and southern Libya. They are not usually found north of Marzuk in Fezzan or Kufra in Cyrenaica now, but in Roman times they ranged north to the central coast of Libya and to Ghadames in southern Tunisia. As well as Garamante, there were some Iranic people stationed on this frontier, especially Sarmatians (called Ossets now) and Scythians (Ashkenazi in the Hebrew Bible) from southern Russia and the Ukraine (Ashkenaz, the old Hebrew for Scythia, has been used for Germany in modern Hebrew by Ashkenazic Jews trying to ingratiate themselves with Germans and Austrians or trying to hide their Khazar ancestry). These African and Iranic soldiers left many descendants who tend to have black, heavy hair and dark eyes even yet.
Beethoven and Hitler are two famous examples of this group (Peanuts). It is interesting to imagine Hitler's reaction to someone telling him he probably got his heavy, black hair from Black African ancestry. Since this was so long ago, with population movement and inter-marriage, all Europeans must have some ancestry from these Black African soldiers. In sixty generations, a person could leave 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 descendants with just two children per person each generation so long as no descendants married each other. Obviously, after a time, many descendants will marry each other, but still it works out statistically that most people from that long ago who left descendants at all are ancestors of everyone in Europe today. The tendency for people to stay in their own community explains why we can see the effects along the Danube and in the Black Forest in the people with black hair and dark eyes but do not see it far away like Iceland. The concentration is far greater at the point of origin, but the dispersion radiates out to everywhere given enough time.
The Celts: History and Treasures of an Ancient Civilization
This new book is full with images, many human figures, which show a lot of attention to thick lips. I do not know if she talks about the Celts as blacks. It’s always assumed that all Europeans were white. So what happened with the Grimaldi Human?
The Celts: History and Treasures of an Ancient Civilization by Vitali, Daniele Format: Hardcover (Cloth) Price: $35.00 Published: White Star Publishers, 2008 Inventory Status: Special Order - Subject to Availability
quote:This volume invites readers to delve into the origins and development of ancient Celtic culture and immerse themselves in their historical development, cultural horizons, societal structure, and much more. The text traces the birth of the Celts back to the Era of the Celtic Princes, which is believed to have begun around the mid-eighth century, B.C. Readers are taken on a journey of discovery that chronicles the era of migrations in the third and forth centuries B.C. followed by several millennia which saw the interaction between Celtic and non-Celtic-speaking people that would bring about the diversification of the Celtic peoples. Chapters devoted to warriors and farmers, the Celts of Iberia, and the Celts of Britain and Ireland explore the social structures of these evolving civiliations and details of their daily lives. Hundreds of photographs, aerial views, three-dimensional reconstructions, and details of ancient artifacts supplement the authoritative text.
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you post portraits of blackamoors (with the exception of the black madonna, which is clearly a swarthy european) and expect that to be proof we ruled europe? Sir, it only evidences to an afrikan presence in europe.
-------------------- A recovering Afronut Posts: 604 | Registered: May 2009
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There were trade routes between Northern Europe and Africa, India and China, so it is very likely that people from all over the world would have visited Scotland. It is also likely that some Northern Europeans would have settled in other parts of the world and some people from Africa, India and other areas would have settled in Northern Europe. Direct evidence of this is rather hard to find, however.
There's a complication in translations of medieval records because a description of someone as "a black man" was used to mean someone with black hair, not black skin. Norse sagas describe Africans as "Blaumenn" (blue men). There are stories of Blaumenn in Dublin and of someone called Kenneth of Niger in Scotland in the 10th Century.
In the middle ages Muslims were considered as bad or even worse than heathens, because they worshipped Muhammad, who was an Antichrist to Christians. There are not many episodes in Heimskringla that concern Muslims, or ‘blámenn’ as they are called in the sagas. King Sigurd Jorsalafar is said to have fought heathens in Spain on his way to Jerusalem. He plundered with his crew on the island of Formentera, where there was a ‘herr mikill heiðinna blámanna’. Sigurd’s men win the battle of course (Msona chs. V-VI). Heimskringla does not mention anything about Muslim beliefs, but obviously there was no need to clarify the evilness of the blámenn to the audience since the word ‘blár’ reveals that these men were very different from the heroic King Sigurd and his men. Even though blár means ‘blue,’ in this case it signifies ‘black.’ These ‘blue men’ lived in Spain or the south Mediterranean. ‘Blámenn’ refers not only to literally black men, but also to Arabs and Moors. The use of the term ‘blámenn’ indicates that the writer wanted to stress that they were of different ethnic origin than the Norse people. We should also remember, too, that in the fornaldarsögur the term ‘blámenn’ refers to earthly creatures of evil (e.g. ‘blámenn ok berserkir’ Lindow, 1995, 13-14). This ethnic implication was probably more important to the intended audience of the saga than any, rightly omitted, information about the religious beliefs of the blámenn.
I'm sure I read that black men were called 'blue men' by the Vikings. Also that some African tribes have no separate words for blue and green, as the differentiation is of no importance in their necessary world-view. However, they can readily recognise the difference when it's pointed out to them. The same as we don't have four hundred words for different aspects of camels, as I'm told Arabs do, only in reverse. If you see what I mean.
In Magnúss sona saga (ch. 6) King Sigurd makes a journey to the Holy Land. On his way he fights with the “heathen blámenn” on the Spanish Isles of Menorca and Ibiza. These socalled “blue men” in the saga are Moors. The word blár means here ‘black’ and blámenn referred to the inhabitants of Blálönd – Black Lands, which was an undefined, faraway geographical area in the minds of the learned medieval Scandinavians. As the word itself reveals, it was the black skin that mattered. In the fornaldarsögur blámenn were associated with forces of evil. Nevertheless, blámenn referred later not only to black men but also to Moors and Saracens. So, here we have the thin line between the supernatural and ethnically different enemies, which is by no means a deviating feature in the Heimskringla (or in other Old Norse sources).22 As the giants of the Old Norse mythology became the Finnar in historical writings, so did the blámenn of the fornaldarsögur become the enemies of Christianity: black men, Saracens, Moors. As John Lindow has pointed out, it must have been difficult to draw a line between the supernatural and the natural in these contexts. Lindow has also observed that what is striking about the description of strangers and other groups in Nordic tradition are “how closely they resemble attributes of supernatural Ennen ja nyt 4/2004 >>> http://www.ennenjanyt.net/404/ referee/aalto.pdf 7 beings”.23 In fact, in the Middle Ages there hardly existed a division between the supernatural and the natural. In people’s minds angels were as real as demons. It is obvious that in the Middle Ages Icelanders and Norwegians must have had a faint understanding of faroff places that they knew only by name: Spain, Sicily, Jerusalem, Byzantium. But it seems that the geographical distance had less importance than religion when regarding the “otherness” of people. Namely, the Christian concept of the world was that it consisted of Christian peoples. Heathens and heretics did not belong to their world: they were outside of Christendom. It seems that this Christian worldview is perceptible also in the Heimskringla, as strangers are those who stand outside the Christian community. These outsiders are described as extremely different. “Otherness” based on ethnic difference does not seem to play a major part in the Heimskringla. In the case of blámenn it is obvious that skin colour that differed from the standard is one factor that makes them different, but I would see the skin colour only as a feature that emphasises that blámenn were evil and enemies of Christianity as were also the Wends. All in all, heathens in the Heimskringla seem to be strangers without any category, which would mean that their degree of difference is digital. The True root of Hoy by Blue Man on 27.2.2004 Those mired in the constraints of the modern world, would be hard pressed to allow themselves to believe the truth of the origins of this sacred word- Hoi Hoy, which is most generally spelled Hoi, has a root far earlier than most understand. It has become a greeting associated with those who know the TRUTH of the origins of Man. Ahhh, he must be crazy you say?!. The Hoi greeting is most often traced to seafaring civilizations, who had significant contact with the mammals of the sea. The Hoi Hoi sound is that made by porpoises to communiate (greet) each other. Over time this sound was adopted by Vikings, Scotsman, Polynesians, Islanders, etc. as a Universal Greeting. When the legendary Blue Men (Hoi Gollokai) (Mermaid like creatures- with wizardlike powers of song, luck, art, and creativity)) due to their higher consciousness (like dolphins) left the oceans to return to land, thus beginning their interaction and intermingling with early humans (Cro Magnon). This eventual interbreeding led to lineages far more intelligent with a higher consciousness than existed before. These lineages can be traced to several ancient civilizations, most notably in Scotland and Ireland, where the Galukai came out of the brakish waters of the Lochs. Ancient Scottish castles on the Lochs (, bear some as yet unknown signifiance in this history. Mummified remains of these ancient sea creatures can be found in some museums. I have seen them. "The Luck O the Irish", has a basis in fact, for the redheaded descendants of the Golokai, who came from the sea, eventually mating with humans. If you analyze photography of bluemen, colors, similar to dolphins, and convert them to negatives you get bluegreen. Irish/Scottish redheads, seen in the negative (as in the sea), appear this exact color- bluemen. There also exists other strains of these breedings who came from the polynesian and island peoples. These peoples, some alive today, possibly with the surname Hoy or Hoi, possess qualities of lucidity, creativity, higher consciousness, sensitivity to sound, generally very musical, or artisitic, have a special affinity for the water, and seem to age slowly. Even the Hopi Indians of the SouthWest, who arose from remnants of the Mayans, who knew these secrets, have as one of their deities- The Red Beard LongHair. Shown as a Kachina- he is the spirit who brings the water and rain to the land. Sound farfetched ? I have done my research. New clues from the underwater lost city off the coast of Cuba that has been found, as well as pyramid anomolies in the OceanPacific due West of Oregon/California coast should prove interesting.... Stay tuned. Hoi Hoi has become the international greeting for those with the higher consciousness, yet who stay in the shadows. There may also be a link with sacred Orders such as the FreeMasons... who came from this Old World- New Order.... There are other very interesting parallels, that I don't have time to discuss, relating to a self-perpetuating semantic phenomenon. The The. strange and interesting comparisons to the mathematics of Fractal Chaos theory, and the iterations of equations that create a "Mandelbrot Set" formation... Truth is Stranger than Fiction !! Hoi Hoi !! Long live the Porpoise People ! P.S. The word porpoise comes from Porcus (Pig) + Piscis (Fish)= PigFish... mammal interbred with fish.... sounded with the oi sound that the dolphin makes. Ignorant humanoids descended from simians... enlightened Man descended from sea creatures that returned to the sea after having lived on land, and then rebred with existing mammalian humanoids... BELIEVE... Hoi Hoi !! Some believe in aliens from outer space.... but here on earth is the evidence of the truth from our own oceans !!!
Their little lecture concerning the relationship between grapheme and phoneme in the Greek and Russian alphabets is hardly more trustworthy. Per says: “We must remember that in both the Greek and Russian alphabets the letters “b” and “v” are identical, and so are “o” and “u”…” (p. 137 our translation). Obviously, they have not understood that one letter can symbolize different sounds in the same or related alphabets. The Russians and the modern Greeks distinguish between b and v and between o and u in both speech and spelling; a fact which the first lesson in any textbook on these languages would have revealed. Even when it comes to Snorri’s own language, the two authors are surprisingly ignorant. When discussing the meaning and location of Bláland (The Blue Land, i.e. the Land of the Blue Men) (pp. 29), they fail to acknowledge that the adjective blár in Old Norse may also mean dark. Their discussions around the meaning of the place-name Svitjod (Old Norse Svífljó›) also end in a total shambles when they introduce a pseudo-Norse explanation which is grammatically impossible (p. 30).
Three key questions arise at this point: What did the very first Norse travelers to North America in fact call the people they met there, well over a century before Ari the Learned penned his history? Did the reference to "Skrælings" occur in the first version of Ari's work, the original of which no longer exists? And what was the word Skræling(j)ar intended to signify?18 18 As handed down through the pertinent medieval literature, the word Skræling(j)ar deliberately conveys small size as the chief characteristic of the native people the Norse met on their voyages farthest west. (From innumerable examples, we know that the names the medieval Norse gave to new people and places were based on what they considered a main characteristic.19) There is also fairly good scholarly agreement that in a literary context, Skræling(j)ar was used pejoratively to indicate puny physical stature—a quality disdained by the medieval Norse. While the word therefore suggests a possible etymological link to the modern Norwegian word skral, used about people or objects in poor condition,20 that linkage is not readily acceptable to linguistic scholars. However, the philologist Kari Ellen Gade proposes that if the word skræling(j)ar was coined orally shortly before its first-time written use in Ari's book, the commonly accepted rules for vowel changes and consonant doubling in Old Norse might not apply.21
19 Examples are the names Leif Eiriksson gave to the three main North American regions he found, and the term blámenn ("blue men") applied to the black people the Norse encountered in North Africa.
JSTOR: Royal Purple of Tyre- [ Vertaal deze pagina ]Negroids and some "Moors" were called "blue-men" in early Irish-Norse Chronicles.36 ..... Purple in the Middle Ages was used for sacred and royal purposes ... links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-2968(196304)22%3A2%3C104%3ARPOT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-U - Gelijkwaardige pagina's
Etymology and definitions
BlueberriesThe modern English word blue comes from the Middle English, bleu or blwe, which came from an Old French word bleu of Germanic origin (Frankish or possibly Old High German blao, "shining"). Bleu replaced Old English blaw. The root of these variations was the Proto-Germanic blæwaz, which was also the root of the Old Norse word bla and the modern Icelandic blár, and the Scandinavian word blå, but it can refer to other colours. A Scots and Scottish English word for "blue-grey" is blae, from the Middle English bla ("dark blue," from the Old English blæd). Ancient Greek lacked a word for colour blue and Homer called the colour of the sea "wine dark", except that the word kyanos (cyan) was used for dark blue enamel.
As a curiosity, blue is thought to be cognate with blond, blank and black through the Germanic word. Through a Proto-Indo-European root, it is also linked with Latin flavus ("yellow"; see flavescent and flavine), with Greek phalos (white), French blanc (white, blank) (loaned from Old Frankish), and with Russian белый, belyi ("white," see beluga), and Welsh blawr (grey) all of which derive (according to the American Heritage Dictionary) from the Proto-Indo-European root *bhel- meaning "to shine, flash or burn", (more specifically the word bhle-was, which meant light coloured, blue, blond, or yellow), whence came the names of various bright colours, and that of colour black from a derivation meaning "burnt" (other words derived from the root *bhel- include bleach, bleak, blind, blink, blank, blush, blaze, flame, fulminate, flagrant and phlegm).
In the English language, blue may refer to the feeling of sadness. "He was feeling blue". This is because blue was related to rain, or storms, and in Greek mythology, the god Zeus would make rain when he was sad (crying), and a storm when he was angry. Kyanos was a name used in Ancient Greek to refer to dark blue tile (in English it means blue-green or cyan).[3] The phrase "feeling blue" is linked also to a custom among many old deepwater sailing ships. If the ship lost the captain or any of the officers during its voyage, she would fly blue flags and have a blue band painted along her entire hull when returning to home port. [4]
Many languages do not have separate terms for blue and or green, instead using a cover term for both (when the issue is discussed in linguistics, this cover term is sometimes called grue in English). Blue is commonly used on internet browsers to colour a link that has not been clicked; when a link has been clicked it changes yellow or orange or purple.
quote:Originally posted by kahanyah: you post portraits of blackamoors (with the exception of the black madonna, which is clearly a swarthy european) and expect that to be proof we ruled europe? Sir, it only evidences to an afrikan presence in europe.
Dear, what are 'swarthy Europeans'? First we establish that there were blacks in Europe, next we find out what they were up to. Be sure to read every bit of my 'Blue Men' posting.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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Madame de Kerouaille, French mistress of Charles II Stuart with a little Moor
quote:Louise de Kérouaille, Duchess of Portsmouth From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Portrait of Louise de Kérouaille by Pierre MignardLouise Renée de Penancoët de Kérouaille, Duchess of Portsmouth (September 1649 – 14 November 1734), was a mistress of Charles II of England. The exact date of her birth is apparently unknown.
[edit] Early life She was the daughter of Guillaume de Penancoët, Seigneur de Kérouaille (d. 1690) and wife (married on February 27, 1645) Marie de Ploeuc de Timeur (d. January 1709), paternal granddaughter of René de Penancoët, Seigneur de Kérouaille et Villeneuve, and wife (married on October 12, 1602) Julienne Emery du Pont-l'Abbé, Dame du Chef du Bois, and maternal granddaughter of Sébastien de Ploeuc, Marquis de Timeur, and wife (married on January 8, 1617) Marie de Rieux (d. 1628). The name Kérouaille was derived from an heiress whom an ancestor François de Penhoët had married in 1330.
The family were nobles in Brittany, and their name was so spelt by themselves. The form "Quérouaille" was commonly used in England, where it was corrupted into Carwell or Carewell, perhaps with an ironic reference to the care that the duchess took to fill her pocket. In France, it was variously spelt Quérouaille, Kérouaille and Kéroualle.
She had a sister, Henriette Mauricette de Penancoët de Kérouaille, who married Jean-Timoléon Gouffier, marquis de Thais, ancestors among others of the Comtes de Bourbon-Busset. Her aunt Renée Mauricette de Ploeuc de Timeur married Donatien de Maillé, Marquis de Carman (d. 1652), and among others they were the great-grandparents in male line of the mother of the Marquis de Sade.[…]
The Third Duke of Richmond out Shooting with his Servant. Johann Zoffany (c. 1765). The Duke of Richmond, a great grandson of Charles II Stuart(1630-1685)and Louise de Kerouaille.
There might have been a Johann Zoffany, but I doubt if we see him in this painting. This looks more like a Moor, a symbol of blue blood.
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quote: Zwarte Madonna "mysterieuze donkere jonkvrouw" De Zwarte Madonna spreekt al sinds eeuwen tot veler verbeelding. Grote bedevaartplaatsen als Chartres, Le Puy en Rocamadour koesteren een heiligdom van de zwarte maagd. Zij komt tevens voor in dorpjes waar de tijd heeft stil gestaan. De maagd werd en wordt om bijstand gebeden voor zaken die leven en dood betreffen. De oorsprong van de romaanse "'tronende" madonna voert terug tot ver voor de geboorte van Christus. Wijsheid en inzicht uit oude beschavingen en mythologieën hebben de Zwarte Madonna gevormd tot het universele beeld zoals het ons nu tegemoet treedt. Er blijken veel overeenkomsten te bestaan tussen de diverse uitbeeldingen. Het sprookje dat de beelden door kaarsenwalm zwart zouden zijn geblakerd wordt weerlegd. De meeste Zwarte Madonna's stammen, ondanks het feit dat de legendes verder terug gaan in de tijd, uit de 12e eeuw. De geschiedenis leert dat Maria, na de uitspraak van het concilie te Efeze waarbij zij officieel tot Moeder van God werd uitgeroepen, extra aandacht kreeg van de gelovigen. Vooral middeleeuws Frankrijk benadrukte haar positie. De devotie kwam tot een hoogtepunt op het moment dat de kathedralen in haar naam werden opgericht. Maria stak in verering Christus naar de kroon. Naast de gangbare lichte madonna-uitbeelding geeft de donkere uitvoering van de Zwarte Madonna een heel speciale elitaire meerwaarde aan de moeder van Christus. Haar wijsheid reikt over het christendom heen. [Terug naar boven]
quote:Belgium Onze-Lieve-Vrouw van Regula (Moeder van Regula van Spaignen), Brugge Chapelle de la Vierge Noire, Maillen (Assesse) Our Lady of Flanders, Tournai Gothic Church of Our Lady, Halle
quote: Theories about the Black Madonnas
The Black Virgin of Montserrat: a copy at Barcelona CathedralAfter a late 19th and early 20th century theory that applied dark skin color was due to the candles burnt in prayer to the Virgin Mary putting soot all over the statue, there was little study of the Black Madonnas for several decades. Some theologians and historians still believe that all examples of dark coloring can be accounted for by the natural color of the wood used or by changes in color over time. They may add that a pale alabaster face was a post-medieval development. A counter-argument points to the apparently un-sooted bright colors of the clothing on some images with painted black face and hands.
Interest in studying Black Madonnas revived in the late 20th century. Scholars of comparative religion have suggested that Black Madonnas are descendants of pre-Christian mother or earth goddesses (Moss, Benko). Some have highlighted Isis as the key ancestor-goddess (Redd, McKinney-Johnson). Psychologists have discussed the maternal and female archetypes from a Jungian perspective (Gustafson, Begg). Although these approaches have stimulated academic interest, there is no well-established consensus about medieval motives for carving or painting Black Madonnas.
quote: ONZE-LIEVE-VROUW VAN REGULA, DE ZWARTE MADONNA
Tot 28 maart 2004 in Memlingmuseum
Naar aanleiding van de tentoonstelling 'Onze-Lieve-Vrouw van Regula, de Zwarte Madonna' op de zolder van het Memlingmuseum, rijst opnieuw de vraag hoe het komt dat de moeder van Jezus Christus als een zwarte vrouw werd afgebeeld, terwijl Jezus zélf blank is. Noch de tentoonstelling, noch de erbij horende brochure geven een antwoord op die vraag, terwijl het voor de MAG zo klaar is als een klontje.
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
[QUOTE]
I've never seen this particular image before. It says alot. Good find.
Btw, I once recall a well known egyptsearch member stating many medieval figurines and paintings like the one above were much darker than they originally were due to "chemical damage."
What is the explanation for this particular icongraphy? Why is the Madonna obvioulsy black (no mistake) and the child white? Why did "chemicals" turn the Madonna black but not the child? Posts: 191 | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote: La Vierge Noire de l'église Sainte-Catherine.(Bruxelles)
La statuette de la Vierge Noire portant l'Enfant Jésus est une œuvre en pierre datant du XV ème siècle. Elle avait été jetée dans la Senne en 1744 par des marins en virée. Elle fut repêchée flottant sur un morceau de tourbe et depuis lors, cette statuette est vénérée dans l'église Sainte-Catherine.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Nice,btw why is the child winking?
Because poor Maria delivered him all by herself and did not know how to clean his eye in the proper way; with his mothers urine! You would have known this if you had read Beloved.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by JMT2: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
[QUOTE]
I've never seen this particular image before. It says alot. Good find.
Btw, I once recall a well known egyptsearch member stating many medieval figurines and paintings like the one above were much darker than they originally were due to "chemical damage."
What is the explanation for this particular icongraphy? Why is the Madonna obvioulsy black (no mistake) and the child white? Why did "chemicals" turn the Madonna black but not the child?
During a heavy downpour, a leakage sprang and the white paint on the ceiling dissolved and dripped on poor Jesus: turning him white. That's also why he winks, lead white paint in his eyes!
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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[Alexander Pushkin, looking mighty prognastic because all his ancestors were black and coloured nobles. Check out his nails!]
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Egmond - Have you taken leave of your senses?
Prognathism is an extension of the lower jaw (mandible) that occurs when the shape of the face bones cause the teeth to be improperly lined up.
How is that indicative of the Black race? You must have been reading Stormfront again. BTW - more White people have that condition than Black.
Let's keep it nice, shall we?
Not to mention the Chinese and Indonesians. I agree with you but there is subnasal prognatism among Blacks and established descriptions of Classical Blacks will name this as an important feature. To convince people there were blacks among the European elite, writers have always pointed to prognastic portraits. As with the wide and flattened nose, but you saw my postings of Kobe Bryant who has neither a wide nose nor thick lips, but is black. Incidentally, since I found about this heresy about Somali's being 'Caucasians' I love to observe them. Did the definers ever notice their big and wide backsides? The narrower the nose the bigger the ass! But yes, some look like whites spray painted jet black. Even blacker underneath their cloths, as Coons (1961) wrote, and I saw in the gym. They are somewhat striped like zebra’s too.
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Zwarte god den Vader! Zoiets behoeft toch uitleg? A Black God the Father! Such a thing must be explained!
By the way, god was very modern, never married his underage mistress, Maria, after fathering Jesus and having an adopted kid, The Holy Spirit, around: a proper bohemien set-up, no?
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Egmond. Over the next two years or so, I'd be interested to see what black pigmented pictures and / or woolly-haired, prognathous, full nose and lipped images you can find for England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland (perhaps Blue Bloods) from the 4th century BC to the 17th century AD.
If you could keep them as a group, that would be interesting. And the same thing for France. And including statues or reliefs if you happen to come across any.
I've come across many more images of Africans in France before whites arrived than England (almost nothing); but not as much material for either of them as from Italy, Hungary, Prague, and maybe Germany.
I believe there must be a wealth of images of African populations in England somewhere; given the huge African population once there. Maybe you will run across it.
If so, I'd love to see it as it emerges over the years.
. .
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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This research letter demonstrates how so-called curates oversee portrait collections in a so-called 'scientific' way by making some very ‘interesting’ portraits 'double anonymous.' They cannot be traced to existing families who were black. We have to believe that Maria Jacoba's afrocentric portrait is the only one for the whole, immensely rich black Van Goor family. The Van Goor patriarch used to order Rembrandts for sale in the Mediterranean, and his son was married to a niece of Rembrandt. This is how they keep us on a daily basis, in the dark of the black elite. No answer came!
Aan de Conservatrice van Slot Zuylen mw. Hester Kuiper (?) te Utrecht cc Mw. Karin Schaffers, Conservatrice Iconografisch Bureau Ref.: EC/1/008/2006 Inzake: De dubbel geanonimiseerde portretten van de familie van Goor Den Haag, 27 maart 2006.
Weledele Vrouwe Hester Kuiper,
Gaarne bedank ik u alsnog voor het korte gesprek dat wij vele maanden geleden op Slot Zuylen mochten hebben. Ik voelde mij zeer vereerd dat u toch tijd vrijmaakte terwijl mijn komst niet was aangekondigd. Intussen kan ik u informeren dat er een ‘eerste verbeterde druk maart 2005’ van mijn werk over Belle van Zuylen beschikbaar is, welke vele malen superieur is aan de ‘nulde druk.’
Daarom kan ik u laten weten dat de adellijke familie van Tuyll van Serooskerken en haar aanverwante takken en aangetrouwde families, allemaal in oorsprong behoorden tot de Europese ‘zwarte en gekleurde’ natie, door mij ontdekt en aldus genaamd. Ze vormden een uniek en exclusief Europees ‘gefixeerd, mulattenras’ met wit, Afrikaans en Aziatisch bloed. Dit geldt dus ook voor de zogenaamde ‘moderne tak’ die inmiddels helemaal wit schijnt. Sommigen vertoonden meer afrocentrische gezichtstrekken zoals Maria Jacoba van Goor en deze portretten geven conservatoren tot vandaag de meeste problemen. De conservator Ben Bregman van het Huygensmuseum Hofwijck bijvoorbeeld, weigert het Rembrandt portret van Maurits Huygens te tonen want hij oogt als een ‘mulat’ en de hele familie was gekleurd.
Voor het juiste begrip van de heel licht gekleurde Belle van Zuylen die een zwarte identiteit had en tevens hield van zeer donkere adellijke mannen, zal men haar etniciteit en de herkomst van het familiefortuin uit slavenhandel in ogenschouw moeten nemen. Ik heb zelf zeer ongeïnformeerde wetenschappers horen beweren dat Belle van Zuylen niet van zwarte mensen zou houden of zichzelf lelijk vond! Zij wilde van alle naties zijn en was ook van alle naties.
Eerder heb ik mijn verwondering geuit dat de schatrijke regentenfamilie Van Goor die zelf connecties had met Rembrandt van Rijn, het slechts met één schilderij van Maria Jacoba moest stellen. Door echter mijn theoretisch concept toe te passen op uw beschrijvende catalogus van de schilderijencollectie op Slot Zuylen ‘Op stand aan de wand’(1996) waaraan mevrouw Karin Schaffers van het Iconografisch Bureau een bijdrage aan leverde, kom ik tot de deductie dat de portretten van de familie Van Goor werden ingebracht door Helena Jacoba de Vicq, de moeder van Belle van Zuylen, en gezocht moeten worden onder de geanonimiseerde portretten van eveneens geanonimiseerde meesters. Deze portretten treft men tegen het einde van de catalogus aan en ik ga ervan uit dat het dubbel anonimiseren in de 19e eeuw plaatsvond, door uw minder ‘verlichte’ voorgangers. Opvallend is dat de meeste van deze onderhavige portretten op dezelfde wijze zijn gerestaureerd in 1910-1912, alsof men eerder de panelen op maat had gezaagd om te passen in een bewaarplaats.
De 19e eeuwse portretten in uw hele collectie beoordeel ik allemaal als bij de conceptie reeds ‘gemooid’ waarbij mogelijke afrocentrische trekken werden ‘vergriekst’ en een eventuele donkere huidkleur geëlimineerd, want gekleurde etniciteit was toen helemaal ‘not done’ en deze afbeelden geven dus geen enkele indicatie van etniciteit.
De argumenten op een rijtje:
- Ontbreken van portretten Van Goor waar het in de lijn der verwachtingen is dat ze moeten hebben bestaan. - Ontbreken in een specifieke collectie waar men deze normaliter zou moeten aantreffen omdat zij door een bruid moeten zijn ingebracht. - Anonimiseren om geen connecties met families te kunnen leggen en kleur in deze families te verbergen. - Anonimiseren van de schilder zodat de informatie van de schilder niet herleidbaar is naar deze families. - Niet tentoonstellen van deze portretten aan het publiek. - Afrocentrische gelaatstrekken m.n. subnasale prognastie
Specifiek in betrekking tot de familie Van Goor doel ik op portretten met catalogusnummers 165, 166, 171, 172, 175, 177 en 181. Als laatste ressort kijk ik naar het afgebeelde en herken leden van de ‘zwarte en gekleurde’ natie in de portretten. Vooral nummer 177 ‘Onbekende man’ toont een jonge man met heldere, lichte ogen, een wat bolle neus en blond kroes haar, in Renaissance aandoende kleding uit de tijd van Shakespeare. Hij heeft mijn speciale belangstelling. Ik wenste dat hij Cornelis Gijsbertsz van Goor (1600-1675) was, de opa van Maria Jacoba van Goor en een opdrachtgever van Rembrandt. Zoniet haar jong overleden broer Cornelis van Goor de jonge, professor aan de Universiteit van Keulen, maar dan past de datering op kleding niet meer. Of was het gelegenheidskleding en wilden zij hun status als ‘Renaissance man’ benadrukken? Deze knappe persoon springt uit het doek op een haast ‘Rembrandt-achtige’ wijze en is het toonbeeld van goed Hollands ondernemersschap. De andere zeer ingetogen maar geamuseerde Hollandse dames met kroes haar zijn mogelijk de moeder Elizabeth Schrijver, haar dochters Agnes van Goor en Johanna van Goor, de zusters van Maria Jacoba van Goor. Mogelijk dus oudtante Johanna van Goor (1690-1762) met wie Belle van Zuylen, volgens Dubois, correspondeerde.
Verheugend is dat men de portretten van de familie Van Goor niet verder heeft verhandeld of heeft vernietigd, maar dat men zelf tot restauratie overging. Misschien dat de verantwoordelijken dachten aan betere tijden wanneer de wereld rijp zou zijn voor de acceptatie van zwarte en gekleurde Nederlanders als gelijkwaardig aan witten. Of dat het, aannemelijk, werken van grote meesters zijn en waardevolle cultuurschatten betreft. Door vandaag in 2006 over te gaan tot deze schilderijen van de naam van de afgebeelde persoon en de naam van de schilder te voorzien handelen wij in de geest van deze voorgangers.
Ik zou gaarne in de toekomst deze stukken willen (helpen) determineren en vraag mij af of Slot Zuylen daartoe haar medewerking zal willen verlenen. Te beginnen met een schouwing van de werken en bestudering van de onderhavige stukken van de restauratie en dergelijke binnen afzienbaar termijn. Verder neem ik aan dat er nog veel ongecatalogiseerde familiecorrespondentie is op Slot Zuylen. Een document in het Archief van Utrecht betreft een machtiging van de familie van Tuyll van Serooskerken aan Cornelis van Goor de jonge, wat wijst op intieme betrekkingen tussen deze families, welke helaas niet terug komt in de presentatie op Slot Zuylen.
Belle van Zuylen had dus niet één, maar zelfs twee gekleurde oma’s want ook Isabella Agnetha Hoeuft, naar wie zij vernoemd is, was van een ‘hartstikke’ gekleurde familie, ondanks sommige portretten. Ook de verheffing van de familie in de adelstand door keizer Leopold I Habsburg, een zwarte man, is een aanwijzing.
Als anekdote wil ik u informeren dat ik onlangs, in navolging van het charmante idee van ‘six degrees of seperation’ een connectie (geen bloedband of pretenties of wat dan ook) vond tussen mezelf en onze Belle van Zuylen. De familienaam Codfried werd namelijk bij de Emancipatie op 1 juli 1863 aan vijf vrijgemaakte jonge slaven gegeven. Mijn zwarte overgrootmoeder Mariette Adriana Codfried (1860) was één van deze vijf. De zwaar getroffen slavenmeesters die een schadeloosstelling ontvingen vanwege deze vrijmaking waren twee broers Neumann uit Mecklenburg, mogelijk beschreven in het ridderschap, en twee Surinaamse zusters Cordua. De moeder van deze gezusters Cordua was Catharina Hoëft, door haar ‘informele’ Duitse echtgenoot van twintig jaren trouw met wie zij een traditioneel ‘gemakshuwelijk’ had gesloten, vermeldt als ‘Höft.’ Zij was als kleuter gemannumitteerd door haar meester, en behoorde tot de boedel van Henriette Wilhelmina Bedloo die getrouwd was geweest met Jan Diederik Hoeuft uit Haarlem. De naam Diederik wordt ook gedragen door Belle’s vader. Jan was deel van het bestuur van Suriname en is aldaar overleden. Aannemelijk is dat deze gekleurde vrouw Catharina het enige, doch illegitieme kind van deze Hoeuft was en men de familienaam heeft verbasterd.
Haar kleinzoon Johan Martin Andreas Neumann werd burgemeester van Lübeck. Mijn verzoek aan het Museum van Lübeck om een portret van ‘der burgemeister’ resulteerde in een familiefoto van het hele burgemeesterlijk gezin in de tuin, met de burgemeester ver in de achtergrond, half verscholen achter een bosje. Aannemelijk is dat hij als gekleurde man zwarte trekken had en dat dit vreselijke geheim ook in 2006 verborgen moet blijven. (Publicatierechten euro 55!)
Mijn volgende publicatie onder de pen is een engels, afrocentrisch kunstgeschiedenisboek ‘Black Dutch by Rembrandt, Frans Hals, Rubens, Liotard, Girodet and many others’ welke met Godswil in 2007 in eigen beheer gaat verschijnen. Hierin verzamel ik zo veel als mogelijk afbeeldingen en portretten van deze zwarte natie, plaats ze in context en geef commentaar. Ik breng ook alle zwarte en gekleurde portretten van de relaties van Belle van Zuylen bij elkaar om de ‘zwarte en gekleurde’ vaandeldraagster van deze natie zichtbaar te maken.
Ik zie gaarne uw welwillende reactie tegemoet. Met alle verschuldigd respect en dankzegging. Uw gehoorzame en onderdanige dienaar.
************************************************************ 12 Oktober 2006
Geen reactie van Slot Zuylen volgde, maar dat was te verwachten!
******************************************************** Cornelis Gijsbertsz van Goor, was de opa van Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737), de oma van Belle van Zuylen (1740-1805). De moder van Maria Jacoba, Elizabeth Schrijvers was een nichtje van Rembrandt van Rijn.
quote:The name "Black Prince" Although Edward has in later years often been referred to as the "Black Prince", there is no record of this name being used during his lifetime. He was instead known as Edward of Woodstock, after his place of birth. The "Black Prince" sobriquet is first found in writing in Richard Grafton's "Chronicle of England" (1568).[4] Its origin is uncertain, although the following suggestions have been made:
That it is considered to be derived from an ornate black cuirass presented to the young prince by Edward III at the Battle of Crécy, or to his characteristic black armour.[citation needed] That this nickname comes from his "shield of peace", his coat of arms used during tournaments, which is represented around his effigy at Canterbury. This coat of arms is black with three white ostrich feathers.[citation needed] It is possible that the name was first coined by French chroniclers in reference to the ruinous military defeats he had inflicted on France or his cruelty in these.[citation needed] From the idea that Edward garnered the nickname from his explosive temper and/or brooding temperament; the legendary Angevin temper being associated with his family's line since Geoffrey d'Anjou.[citation needed]
quote:Looks like she could have been, or was, a lady of Asian birth. Read on!
Philippa was born in Valenciennes (then in Flanders, now France) and was the daughter of William I, Count of Hainaut and Jeanne of Valois, the granddaughter of Philip III of France.
She married Edward at York Minster, on 24 January 1328, eleven months after his accession to the English throne and, unlike many of her predecessors, she did not alienate the English people by retaining her foreign retinue upon her marriage or bringing large numbers of foreigners to the English court.
Philippa accompanied Edward on his expeditions to the Kingdom of Scotland (1333) and Flanders (1338-40), where she won acclaim for her gentleness and compassion. She is best remembered as the tender-hearted woman who interceded with her husband and persuaded him to spare the lives of the Burghers of Calais (1347) whom he had planned to execute as an example to the townspeople following his successful siege. She acted as a regent on several occasions when he was on the continent.
Philippa had grown portly in her later years, and this added to the view most of her English subjects had of her as a friendly, homely, motherly woman whom the nation greatly loved. Philippa outlived 9 of her 14 children; two of whom were lost during the Black Death outbreak (1348).
On 15 August 1369 Philippa died of an illness akin to dropsy in Windsor Castle, and was buried at Westminster Abbey. By all accounts, her 40 year marriage to Edward had been happy, despite his taking a mistress, Alice Perrers, during the later part of it.
Through her children, Philippa reintroduced the bloodline of an earlier English King, Stephen, into the royal family. She was descended from Stephen through Matilda of Brabant, the wife of Floris IV, Count of Holland. Their daughter Adelaide of Holland married John I of Avesnes, Count of Hainaut, Philippa's paternal great-grandfather. Matilda of Brabant in turn was the great-granddaughter of Stephen through her mother Matilda of Boulogne, the wife of Henry I, Duke of Brabant.
Philippa was also a descendant of Harold II of England through his daughter Gytha of Wessex, married to Vladimir II Monomakh of Kiev. His bloodline, however, had been reintroduced to the English royal family by Philippa's mother-in-law, Isabella of France, a granddaughter of Isabella of Aragon, the wife of Philip III of France. Isabella of Aragon's mother, Violant of Hungary, was a daughter of Andrew II of Hungary, a grandson of Géza II by Euphrosyne of Kiev, herself a granddaughter of Gytha. Through her maternal great-grandmother, Maria of Hungary, she was descended from Elisabeth of Bosnia (born before 1241), a daughter of Kuthen, Khan of the Cumens and his Slavic wife, Galicie of Halicz, thus bringing Western Asian blood into the English royal line Source(s): Wikipedea. Searches for Phillippa of Hainault
Interesting observations you make on Maria Jacoba van Goor and her extended family.
Much is said about Hungarians in the latter part of the page directly above. Presented before as one of my favorite images of Medieval Hungary is this (by physical appearance) African king - a medieval Hungarian:
Hungary is another place well-represented in preserved images of (by appearance) Africans during Medieval and earlier periods.
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quote:The name "Black Prince" Although Edward has in later years often been referred to as the "Black Prince", there is no record of this name being used during his lifetime. He was instead known as Edward of Woodstock, after his place of birth. The "Black Prince" sobriquet is first found in writing in Richard Grafton's "Chronicle of England" (1568).[4] Its origin is uncertain, although the following suggestions have been made:
That it is considered to be derived from an ornate black cuirass presented to the young prince by Edward III at the Battle of Crécy, or to his characteristic black armour.[citation needed] That this nickname comes from his "shield of peace", his coat of arms used during tournaments, which is represented around his effigy at Canterbury. This coat of arms is black with three white ostrich feathers.[citation needed] It is possible that the name was first coined by French chroniclers in reference to the ruinous military defeats he had inflicted on France or his cruelty in these.[citation needed] From the idea that Edward garnered the nickname from his explosive temper and/or brooding temperament; the legendary Angevin temper being associated with his family's line since Geoffrey d'Anjou.[citation needed]
quote:Looks like she could have been, or was, a lady of Asian birth. Read on!
Philippa was born in Valenciennes (then in Flanders, now France) and was the daughter of William I, Count of Hainaut and Jeanne of Valois, the granddaughter of Philip III of France.
She married Edward at York Minster, on 24 January 1328, eleven months after his accession to the English throne and, unlike many of her predecessors, she did not alienate the English people by retaining her foreign retinue upon her marriage or bringing large numbers of foreigners to the English court.
Philippa accompanied Edward on his expeditions to the Kingdom of Scotland (1333) and Flanders (1338-40), where she won acclaim for her gentleness and compassion. She is best remembered as the tender-hearted woman who interceded with her husband and persuaded him to spare the lives of the Burghers of Calais (1347) whom he had planned to execute as an example to the townspeople following his successful siege. She acted as a regent on several occasions when he was on the continent.
Philippa had grown portly in her later years, and this added to the view most of her English subjects had of her as a friendly, homely, motherly woman whom the nation greatly loved. Philippa outlived 9 of her 14 children; two of whom were lost during the Black Death outbreak (1348).
On 15 August 1369 Philippa died of an illness akin to dropsy in Windsor Castle, and was buried at Westminster Abbey. By all accounts, her 40 year marriage to Edward had been happy, despite his taking a mistress, Alice Perrers, during the later part of it.
Through her children, Philippa reintroduced the bloodline of an earlier English King, Stephen, into the royal family. She was descended from Stephen through Matilda of Brabant, the wife of Floris IV, Count of Holland. Their daughter Adelaide of Holland married John I of Avesnes, Count of Hainaut, Philippa's paternal great-grandfather. Matilda of Brabant in turn was the great-granddaughter of Stephen through her mother Matilda of Boulogne, the wife of Henry I, Duke of Brabant.
Philippa was also a descendant of Harold II of England through his daughter Gytha of Wessex, married to Vladimir II Monomakh of Kiev. His bloodline, however, had been reintroduced to the English royal family by Philippa's mother-in-law, Isabella of France, a granddaughter of Isabella of Aragon, the wife of Philip III of France. Isabella of Aragon's mother, Violant of Hungary, was a daughter of Andrew II of Hungary, a grandson of Géza II by Euphrosyne of Kiev, herself a granddaughter of Gytha. Through her maternal great-grandmother, Maria of Hungary, she was descended from Elisabeth of Bosnia (born before 1241), a daughter of Kuthen, Khan of the Cumens and his Slavic wife, Galicie of Halicz, thus bringing Western Asian blood into the English royal line Source(s): Wikipedea. Searches for Phillippa of Hainault
PHILLIPA OF HAINAULT/ PHILLIPA VAN HENEGOUWEN (1314-1369)
Philippa was also a descendant of Harold II of England through his daughter Gytha of Wessex, married to Vladimir II Monomakh of Kiev. His bloodline, however, had been reintroduced to the English royal family by Philippa's mother-in-law, Isabella of France, a granddaughter of Isabella of Aragon, the wife of Philip III of France. Isabella of Aragon's mother, Violant of Hungary, was a daughter of Andrew II of Hungary, a grandson of Géza II by Euphrosyne of Kiev, herself a granddaughter of Gytha. Through her maternal great-grandmother, Maria of Hungary, she was descended from Elisabeth of Bosnia (born before 1241), a daughter of Kuthen, Khan of the Cumens and his Slavic wife, Galicie of Halicz, thus bringing Western Asian blood into the English royal line
============================== Carefully photographed so the persons appear to be white!
Les miniatures de Fouquet Les Grandes Chroniques de France [url]http://andrich.fr/hist_grandes_chroniques_france.htm
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[modifier] Le mystère de sa naissance enfin élucidé [modifier] Cheikh Anta Diop, fils caché du Roi des Belges. [modifier] Les faits historiques.[5] Léopold, duc de Brabant, futur roi Léopold III des Belges, est en Égypte en février 1923 avec sa mère, la Reyne Élisabeth, pour l'ouverture de la tombe de Toutânkhamon[6]. Puis ils se rendent au Soudan [7]. C'est lors de ce voyage qu'il fait la connaissance du Docteur Mouchet, médecin au Congo belge [8]. Le Docteur Mouchet est accompagné d'une nombreuse délégation de notables représentant les contrées d'Afrique de l'ouest francophone, parmi lesquels des aristocrates Wolof sénégalais originaires de Thieytou[9]. Parmi eux la jeune Magatte Diop. Cheikh Anta Diop [10] naît 9 mois plus tard.
Une étude morphologique attentive prouve l'incontestable ressemblence entre Léopold et ses deux premiers fils, Anta et Baudouin. On observera le même front dégagé, le même nez, les mêmes oreilles, le même menton ; et les mêmes lunettes chez les deux demi-frères.
Léopold III Roi des Belges Cheikh Anta Diop de Saxe-Cobourg Gotha Baudouin Ier Roi des Belges Baudouin Ier et Albert II Rois des Belges
En 1953, Cheikh Anta Diop épouse, à Paris, la française Louise Marie Maes, dont postérité [11] En 1959, suite à la participation de Cheikh Anta Diop au second Congrès des Écrivains et Artistes noirs à Rome, où il fait une communication portant sur L'Unité culturelle africaine qui paraît dans un numéro spécial de la revue "Présence Africaine", Léopold, qui a abdiqué en 1951, est invité à quitter le Palais de Laeken. Dès lors, les relations seront tendues entre l'ex-roi et le nouveau, Baudouin.
[modifier] L'origine du nom de Cheikh Anta Diop - Le message secret Cheikh Anta Dioop est une anagramme de "Cheik a adoption", message secret que sa mère et son père royal ont caché dans son nom, afin que la Vraie Vérité soit révélée en temps utile Cheikh = titre témoignant de la noblitude de la naissance
Anta = ante = avant
Adioption = adoption, reconnaissance de naissance, de paternité
Fils noble d'avant l'adoption
Fils noble adopté
quote: ↑ Sur d'autres "cas" célèbres dans d'autres Maisons Royales Européennes on pourra notament consulter l'ouvrage d'Egmond Codfried Blue Blood is Black Blood (en anglais), les révélations sur le fils caché de SAS Albert II de Monaco ou l'article sur la mystérieuse "Mauresse de Moret". Sans parler du véritable visage de Louis XIV !
quote: el Conde Adolf-Fredrik Munck de Fulkila (1749-1831)
Hizo falta la intervención del conde Adolf Fredrik Munck de Fulkila, amigo (y favorito, acaso amante) del rey, para que se operase en la real pareja un acercamiento en 1775, y mucho poder de convicción para que Gustavo III se pusiera en faena para engendrar a un heredero del trono, que nacerÃa finalmente en 1778.
Por lo visto, el rumor de la paternidad del prÃncipe heredero partió de la mismÃsima reina-madre Luisa-Ulrika de Prusia, que rehusó reconocer a su nieto como hijo de Gustavo III. Para acabar con las maledicencias, el rey llegó a obligar a su madre y a todos los miembros de la familia real a firmar un documento público en el que reconocÃan la legitimidad del pequeño Gustavo Adolfo y desmentÃan el rumor de bastardÃa.
Maria oogt blauw, met allemaal bruine en zwarte personen om haar heen. Omdat zijzelf zo licht blauw is denk ik niet aan 'vergeelde vernis' of de andere gebruikelijke bullshit verklaringen!
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That's what I'm talking about. Now you're cooking.
Great find!
Also in Florence, Masaccio (c.1401-1428.AD) painted a similar three-panel fresco called The San Giovenale Triptych with African / Negro / black holy figures. But the one you posted is much, much finer.
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Maria oogt blauw, met allemaal bruine en zwarte personen om haar heen. Omdat zijzelf zo licht blauw is denk ik niet aan 'vergeelde vernis' of de andere gebruikelijke bullshit verklaringen!
posted
Why do you care? Let us mad people do our own thing, please? Keep with the sane people, space enough, no?
So a European religious work of art depicting black persons and a blue madonna is no big deal to you? Wasn't Europe supposed to be this white continent? Why all these blacks together? And why is she blue? White's might feel left out.
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Isiac ceremony in Herculaneum Rome. notice the Black priests and the mostly white congregation...it is from these beginings that we have the Black Modonna and child..also notice the African feel to the whole scene, Temple of Isis Pompeii
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posted
That's Antiquity. Here we are dealing with Renaissance Europe. I'm aware of Maria's beginnings, but how will you fit Isis in 1500-1789? And what do you hope to proof? I rather say that the blackness of god must have been a reflection of the hopes and dreams and identity of the black European elites. They would never go for a white Maria/Jesus combo. Would like be defeating the whole purpose of black superiority.
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posted
Well someting to think about if Isis is the original followed by a Black Modnonna and child followed by a White Modonna..don't you see things start getting more Euro-like with time?also a lot of secert organization start popping up around the time frame you are talking about... linked to Egyptomania..but had connection or claim to have connections going back to the middle-ages.namely the Templars..who dispite being Christian fanatics on the out-side has all kinds of "pagan" imagery in their Temple of worship the Masons Imargy are almost wholly Kemetian...they are the one who funds expeditions to Egypt to bring back Obelix in all European capitols and some American ones...that these people the ones who are of noble birth are over-whelmeningly represented in such secrets sociaties...and they seems to be searching for their African roots while at the sametime engaging in Slavery and colonialism abroad and oppression at home...maybe the iconoclasism was sort of spritual payback before the French and Russian revolution..anyway it's important to know how they moved...and at the heart of it is secret sociaties and veneration in secret of Eastern and Southern deities.
Paris^ sorry my computer is acting up slow response.
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posted
^ Brada, why you even entertain these fools is beyond me. Egmond's thread is at best a good display of the presence of blacks either physically or symbolically in Medieval European society, but to claim Medieval Europe as whole as being a black civilization is as bad claiming Egypt to be a white civilization! Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Djehuti is not invited to attend to my threads: I hate that piece of thrash and wish him run over by a train..
As for this other great scientist; there seems to be an overload of information troubling your mind. In order to arrive at some conclusion and not forever milling over the same goddam information, one has to establish a line, choose what one accepts as scientific truth and what not: for better or for worse. What I will not do is to wait for some eurocentric trash to come and tell me what to believe. It seems to me that you are not able to shake your addiction to being a slave, taking orders, being told what to think and what to believe, so you come and undermine blacks who are actually looking for answers and solutions.
To me it makes all the sense in the world that religious figures, divinity resemble the people who worship them. Indian gods look Indian, Japanese divinity looks Japanese. And if in the cases of the medieval four European deities, the Black Madonna’s, black Jesus, black holy spirit and black god the father it seems different: well then there is something wrong with how the European elite is presented to us.
Then again I have busted my ass posting sources, showing there were blacks in Europe, Blue Men, during 500-1500. Then we got the blue blood elite starting 1100-1200. So I really cannot understand why this should give any problems. How complicated and mysterious can this be? The black European elite gave us so many Moors; they even used the root Moor in their name, were nicknamed Moor. What more could they do to show they were black and coloured? I’m all for making progress so if you don’t mind, do not engage me in any of my threads, either here or in Belgium; you are a hindrance.
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I like paintings with blacks and whites, then you don't get the inane discussions about...
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This is the first useful source about how the black and coloured European royalty painted themselves white, a process here called ‘enameling’ and presented as a way only to look youthful. Nothing said about the person’s dark skin colour or why there was a need to look white or pink. By my estimation both Edward VIII and his wife Alexandra were dark in looks, proof of their high birth.
quote:Enamelling The process, which could perhaps be more correctly described as a form of face painting, is only described in general terms by writings of the time. Its main aim was to achieve the look of younger, whiter skin. This was accomplished by applying a white base, followed by rouge for ‘rosy’ cheeks. Thin blue lines were sometimes added to mimick superficial blood vessels thereby giving the skin the appearance of translucency. It is probable that there were variations in how the process was done. Alexandra was reputed to have preferred an overall pink look.
In enameling the face, the skin is first prepared by an alkaline wash, after which all wrinkles and depressions are filled with a yielding paste. Then the face is simply painted, and artists in this line generally prefer to use the poisonous salts of lead for the purpose, as they produce more striking effects than any other pigment. After the white layer is applied, the red tinting is done.
(Butterick, 1892, p. 234)
It is hard to know how widespread the practice of ‘enamelling’ was during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Leaving aside courtesans and other women of ‘ill repute’, it is probable that the practice was restricted to some older women of the upper classes, being disapproved of by the middle classes and avoided by all respectable young unmarried women. Many social commentators disapproved of it.
The process of enameling is not to be recommended, as the ‘enamel’ must clog the pores of the skin for the time it remains upon the face; and besides it renders necessary perfect repose of the features, so that emotions, whether happy or sorrowful, must be repressed, thus giving a monotonous semi-melancholy expression to the face which cannot prove attractive and, owing to the cause, often occasions sarcastic criticism.
(Butterick, 1892, p. 234)
The composition of the white ‘enamel’ is by no means certain. Those who are critical of the practice describe it as being “white lead in a cream base”. If this were the case then it would have come with health risks, as critics of the practice were quick to point out. As the harmful effects of lead were known zinc was increasingly substituted for the lead as in the recipes below.
“The Venetian diarist Marino Sanuto, who saw Anne during the meeting between Henry VIII and Francis I of France at Calais in October 1532, described her as "not one of the handsomest women in the world; she is of middling stature, swarthy complexion, long neck, wide mouth, bosom not much raised ... eyes, which are black and beautiful".[26] Simon Grynée wrote to Martin Bucer in September 1531 that Anne was "young, good-looking, of a rather dark complexion". Lancelot de Carles called her "beautiful with an elegant figure", and a Venetian in Paris in 1528 also reported that she was said to be beautiful.[27] Other descriptions of her were less neutral. An observer at her coronation wrote that "the crown became her very ill, and a wart disfigured her very much. She wore a violet velvet mantle, with a high ruff of gold thread and pearls, which concealed a swelling she has, resembling a goitre".[26] The most influential description of Anne, but also the least reliable, was written by the historian and polemicist Nicholas Sanders as late as 1586: "Anne Boleyn was rather tall of stature, with black hair, and an oval face of a sallow complexion, as if troubled with jaundice. She had a projecting tooth under the upper lip, and on her right hand six fingers. There was a large wen under her chin, and therefore to hide its ugliness she wore a high dress covering her throat ... She was handsome to look at, with a pretty mouth".[28] Sanders' description contributed to what biographer Eric Ives calls the "monster legend" of Anne Boleyn.[29]” Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Boleyn
“In 1532, a new Venetian ambassador described Anne thusly: 'not one of the handsomest women in the world. She is of middling stature, with a swarthy complexion, long neck, wide mouth, bosom not much raised, and in fact has nothing but the King's great appetite, and her eyes, which are black and beautiful - and take great effect on those who served the Queen when she was on the throne. She lives like a queen, and the King accompanies her to Mass - and everywhere.” Source: http://englishhistory.net/tudor/annedesc.html
Anne Boleyn was very dark. All writers agree on this point. Wyatt says she was "not so whitely as . . . above all we may esteem." Sander said she had a "sallow complexion, as if troubled with jaundice", and the Venetian ambassador said she had a "swarthy complexion". Dark brown or black hair, along with eyes so dark they were almost black and a very dark skin, combined to make Anne Boleyn conspicuously dark - and the opposite of the contemporary ideal, with golden hair, blue eyes and a pink-and-white complexion. Anne had small breasts, when a voluptuous figure was the ideal. The Venetian ambassador said she was of "middling stature" and Sander said she was "rather tall in stature". One of her favourite chaplains felt that Bessie Blount was more beautiful, although Anne was quite pretty. Much of this lukewarm praise would have been due to the fact that she was the opposite of the aforesaid contemporary ideal. In all honesty, the following description of Anne Boleyn is ridiculous; the culmination of a legend built up by Roman Catholics who blamed her for the break with Rome. Therefore, it owes much to the deeply ingrained idea that evil people had hideous exteriors, very much like Richard III's alleged hunchback. However, it goes a long way to illuminate the degree to which Anne was slandered long after her death. Anne Boleyn was rather tall of stature, with black hair and an oval face of sallow complexion, as if troubled with jaundice. She had a projecting tooth under the upper lip, and on her right hand, six fingers. There was a large wen under her chin, and therefore to hide its ugliness, she wore a high dress covering her throat. In this she was followed by the ladies of the court, who also wore high dresses, having before been in the habit of leaving their necks and the upper portion of their persons uncovered. She was handsome to look at, with a pretty mouth.1 http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=nl
Robert Deveraux, is related to Anna Boleyn’s sister. Elizabeth I (whitened), Anna Boleyn’s daughter described as ‘dark.’ Thomas Boleyn (whitened), Anna’s father.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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This is the first useful source about how the black and coloured European royalty painted themselves white, a process here called ‘enameling’ and presented as a way only to look youthful. Nothing said about the person’s dark skin colour or why there was a need to look white or pink. By my estimation both Edward VII and his wife Alexandra were dark in looks, proof of their high birth.
quote:Enamelling The process, which could perhaps be more correctly described as a form of face painting, is only described in general terms by writings of the time. Its main aim was to achieve the look of younger, whiter skin. This was accomplished by applying a white base, followed by rouge for ‘rosy’ cheeks. Thin blue lines were sometimes added to mimick superficial blood vessels thereby giving the skin the appearance of translucency. It is probable that there were variations in how the process was done. Alexandra was reputed to have preferred an overall pink look.
This information echoes what I stated before and says that into the 20th century older women from the highest classes were still whitening their face. The elite were dark in colour, according to some un-retouched photographs, and some even had ethnic features. The middle classes rejected this practice.
I'm confirmed in my findings that racism came from the oppression by a black and coloured noble and royal European elite. This theory explains why there are so many images of The Moor in western art, why there came to be an American Colourline in 1691 and there was a French Revolution in 1789.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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Why would the European nobles and kings(1500-1789)paint themselves white with lead white face paint, if they were white already, even with blue veins showing? The lead white acted as a skin bleach as well.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by kahanyah: you post portraits of blackamoors (with the exception of the black madonna, which is clearly a swarthy european) and expect that to be proof we ruled europe? Sir, it only evidences to an afrikan presence in europe.
Yes, the African presence. But what were they doing, how were they spending their time, where did they live, what role they played, what role colour played.
Because I find them in positions of power and authority I concluded they were a ruling elite, a class of nobles and kings.
The whites were their serfs and even used as material for leather shoes, bookbindings and clothing.
My blue blood is black blood theory forever eliminates the idea of blacks as eternal victims. And I'm not out to proof that blacks are better then whites; just reconstructing history on the base of these wonderful images with blacks even as deity, even in a supposedly white civilisation.
Why are there so few thinking people on this forum? So muck lack of sophistication. How can you discuss civilisation with people who even seem not to be up for a polite exchange of ideas.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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