posted
Through my survey of African culture I have noticed a trend of past scholars to attribute high culture to foreign groups like Phonecians, Arabs and also to so-called ''Hamitic'' African groups such as Berbers, Abyssianians and Egyptians. Because most of the countries in modern Africa are often less advanced its convenient to visualize that Africa was always a culture backwater devoid of any complex structure. The residue still lingers today in various disciplines of archaeology,anthropology and genetics. Western scholars often find it hard to divorce themselves from modern racial politics in order to study Africa without personal bias.
I invite the posters to conduct research and post cases of this. Please include citations and references.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Ife/ Benin bronzes: Often attributed to wandering Etruscans and Greek settlers
Civilizations of Ghana/ Wangara: Often falsely attributed to Garmantes/ Arabs
Timbuktu: Despite the fact that most of the intellectual progress was during black rulership the ''hamitic'' African groups like the Tuareg are invoked
Yoruba/Benin: At one time 19th century scholars considered the groups to be desendants of Arabs or ancient Egyptians. European scholars in the 19th century thirsty for ''black'' African inferiority latched on to myths and legends of the Yoruba to attribute their urban civilization to Arabs or ancient Egyptians.
Baganda: In Uganda early European explorers found a politically sophisticated society with competent rulers. Again much like the Yoruba, Hamitic Africans were invoked to attribute their society to foreigners and also to reinforce the notion that ''black'' Africans lacked the ability to build complex political institutions.
Zulu: Yes, even the Zulu were believed to not be fully black African. Old accounts often call the Zulu ''black Africans'' with Hamitic admixture.
Engaruka: complex structure showing indigenous African skill in irrigation was often attributed also to Hamitic Africans. However, recent archaeology has shown this is not the case.
The unfortunate fact is that the general public is extremely ignorant of past scholarship which has been unamended. It is not just ancient Egypt which has been a victim of past scholarship but also other regions of Africa. Unfortunately due to lack of representation and the extreme claims of many Afrocentrics other parts of Africa continue to be neglected.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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1. Define inner Africa. You used the term, you tell us what you mean by "inner Africa".
2. What do you mean by "attribute high culture to foreign groups"? Your statement is both vague and ambiguos. Are you saying they attribute "high culture" to those groups themselves or are you saying they attribute anything that is considered high culture in Africa to those groups.
3. Were not the so called "Berbers" and Abssynians also victims of outside diffusionist myths and fantasies by western fruitcakes? So why were they not included with the other Africans ausar? Is it because of your own personal racial hierarchy beliefs?
4. Why do you say that the so called "Berbers" and Absynnians are foreign when they are not?
posted
Inner Africa means regions commonly below the Sahara.
I mean that western scholars in the past has found vestiges of complex culture in regions south of the Sahara and attributed it to foreign groups like Arabs, Phonecians and various others.
Yes, Abyssianians, Egyptians and Berbers are victims of cultural diffusion as well but they are talked about in this forum ad. infinitum. I wanted to highlight the distortions in the interior of Africa. The regions which few posters here want to discuss.
I don't have a racial hierarchy.
Argyle, I would appreciate that you not spend the entire thread attacking me. I have legitimate interest in exposing the cultural distortion of inner Africa.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote: Yes, Abyssianians, Egyptians and Berbers are victims of cultural diffusion as well but they are talked about in this forum ad. infinitum. I wanted to highlight the distortions in the interior of Africa. The regions which few posters here want to discuss.
I don't have a racial hierarchy.
Well apparently those whom as you say do not wish to discuss anyone outside of "Berbers", Absynnians, and Egyptians obviously do.
Ish Gebor, alTakuri, djehuti, and "The Explorer" are prime examples of this.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Through my survey of African culture I have noticed a trend of past scholars to attribute high culture to foreign groups like Phonecians, Arabs and also to so-called ''Hamitic'' African groups such as Berbers, Abyssianians and Egyptians. Because most of the countries in modern Africa are often less advanced its convenient to visualize that Africa was always a culture backwater devoid of any complex structure. The residue still lingers today in various disciplines of archaeology,anthropology and genetics. Western scholars often find it hard to divorce themselves from modern racial politics in order to study Africa without personal bias.
I invite the posters to conduct research and post cases of this. Please include citations and references.
^I recently wrote a 14 page essay on this exact topic for school so I have a ton of examples.
* Benin Bronzes - Leo Frobenius also considered them to be the unique creation of a wandering population of Caucasians escaping the final days of Atlantis.
* Great Zimbabwe - Colonial archaeologists imagined that its splendor more likely owed everything to the queen of Sheba or the mysterious Prester John. More recently, people like Gayre have tried to associate Great Zimbabwe with a forgotten Jewish exodus via the Lemba who have Jewish ancestry, thus legitimizing claims of some wandering Caucasian origin for Great Zimbabwe (even though invoking the queen of Sheba and a Black south African tribe with fragmentary ties to the Levant at best, would be questionable to prove that point).
* Axum, or more correctly the pre-axumite polities which lead to Axum, are still to this day said to have been founded by Arabs who crossed the red sea and constructed the first temples. Albeit by a minority of scholars but this view is still out there. Recent work at Ona sites clearly discredit this.
* Ghana (Wagadu) was said to have been initiated by Berbers, a view even echoed in the Tarikhs, but scholars have shown that to be baseless since the earliest Arab travelers describe pagan Blacks.
* Djenne was thought to have been founded by Muslim merchants before Jenne-Jeno was discovered (see McIntosh, 1981).
^^Will leave room for others to contribute, but basically every civilization in Africa that you can think of has at some point or other been attributed to foreign influence by Westerners. "Inner", or tropical Africa is no exception since Egyptians and Nubians being referred to as Hamites suggests foreign infiltration, hence, native Egyptians and Nubians could not create their respective civilizations either without genetic or cultural input from wandering Caucasians.
Argyle is a joke. Just ignore him.
Edit: Sorry, just noticed that you were expecting more formal contributions with citations and more detail. I can definitely help out in that regard, I'll be back with more.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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If you don't understand the psychology and pathology by now then there's something wrong with you.
Race is used to make people feel good about themselves. Its like a narcotic. In order to get this high then someone has to be low.
There is no way that the west euro race loons can have anything they believe as positive being associated with Africa. Which is why you hear all of these diffusionist fantasies from them.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote: Give it a rest son, noone here really cares anything about Africa or Africans per se.
Speak for yourdamSelf, okay....
Some of us here are actually proud of and have love for our African roots/people/Ancestors, etc....
lol, and this here:
quote:The whole game boils down to People who are LOW SELF ESTEEM FOLKS IN SEARCH OF DIGNITY FOR THEMSELVES
That is just toooooooo easy, so I'mma 'low that one deh and just keep it moving....lol.... @ Brada and a few others...
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Shut up fool. ES, TNV, and ESR are full of my contributions on inner Africa. Brada recently referenced one of them on post 1500 CE Euros initial remarks on encountering inner Africa for the first time.
Go back to making funnies, about the only thing you can do right. So, keep us all laughing Angus.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: ausar wrote:
quote: Yes, Abyssianians, Egyptians and Berbers are victims of cultural diffusion as well but they are talked about in this forum ad. infinitum. I wanted to highlight the distortions in the interior of Africa. The regions which few posters here want to discuss.
I don't have a racial hierarchy.
Well apparently those whom as you say do not wish to discuss anyone outside of "Berbers", Absynnians, and Egyptians obviously do.
Ish Gebor, alTakuri, djehuti, and "The Explorer" are prime examples of this.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by teacher of osool: Give it a rest son, noone here really cares anything about Africa or Africans per se.
Apparently YOU do since you spend so much time trolling here in a forum about and AFRICAN nation of Egypt.
quote:The whole game boils down to People who are LOW SELF ESTEEM FOLKS IN SEARCH OF DIGNITY FOR THEMSELVES......THEY SAW HOPE IN CLINGING TO ANCIENT EGYPT, BUT IT TURNED OUT THAT THEY WERE CHASING CLOUDS OF BLACK SMOKE!
Speak for yourself who tried to pose as an Egyptian until a REAL Egyptian (Ausar) blew your cover away like the smoke you speak of! LOL
quote:We all feel sorry for them, but they have very little else to hope for and this is their only chance to feel a little better about themselves.
Quit projecting YOUR problems onto others. Posts: 26258 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Yes, Abyssianians, Egyptians and Berbers are victims of cultural diffusion as well but they are talked about in this forum ad. infinitum. I wanted to highlight the distortions in the interior of Africa. The regions which few posters here want to discuss...
Egyptians and Berbers as North Afrians no matter how BLACK their appearance were claimed as Hamitic caucasoids. Yet when you have Sub-Saharans like Abyssinians and even Rwandans and Ugandans classified as cacasoid or cacasoid mix! It's clear that the ones with a problem are the white Westerners dishing out these designations. Posts: 26258 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Actually the Hamitic Hypothesis got its start from Speke when among some Rwanda/Uganda populations. Only later was it applied to Egyptians/Berbers.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
That is just toooooooo easy, so I'mma 'low that one deh and just keep it moving....lol.... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
@ Brada and a few others...
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
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