A new discussion on the Afro-Asian affinities of the Greeks(E3b)(J)..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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The question should be considering the evidence that the ancestors of Europeans are Tropical Africans, one would have to quess where and what happened to these Tropical people, did all of them become depigmented and adapt to the cold, did they mix with Neandertals and kill off the other Proto-Europeans who did not, further is there a "Transition" population?? In Asia you have Blacks, Browns, and White Asians, yet Europe seems to have only white folks, so the question is did the Neadertal/Homo Sapien Hybrids kill off the non Neadertals?? Were the last of Europe's tropical ancestors the "Colchians" referred to by Herodotus??
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Thank you! I was looking for stuff like this!
quote:
Well the argument has been made that the meds were originally tropically adapted. If you notice as you get near Italy and Greece there is a crapload of J and E. And these are the two primary places often cited as being "white" civilizations. I don't know the results for Sumeria but I'm going to guess there's a lot of J. Anyways, since I'm pretty new to all this, would I need the MtDNA to have a full composite of ancestry?
Well, by my countries traditional stance, most Meds would actually be considered black. But more to the point, even if whites don't want to consider them black (I can guess for very obvious reasons), they do not adequately portray a more "pure" European society like the ones further west/northwest. There's just too much else that's also in them to not accurately report them as being an example of a "mixed" society and not a "pure" white society if we want to go by the "true" _____ game.
As for Spain and Portgual it'd probably be best to figure out if there's some kind of way map out the DNA of the Moors who helped build civilization there, to which they inspired the rest of western Europe.
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Haplogroup J and E(Eb3) are not usually associated with "White" civilization, J being a near Eastern/Arab marker and E being an African marker although this is just going by regional variance.
The fact that the Greeks have so much E and J as compared to other Europeans proves their culture came Afro-Asians. If You notice Spain/Portugal also has significant numbers of E and J.
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Haplogroup J is Caucasoid originating in south-west asia. Its fully absent in Negroids.
Genetic distribution of J -
J is a Caucasoid marker, and was taken into southern europe by neolithic agriculturalists from south-western asia.
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According to a summary study by Pereira et al. 2005, sub-Saharan mtDNA L haplogroups were found at rates of 3.83% in Iberians (Portuguese and Spanish), 2.86% in Sardinians, 2.38% in Albanians and 0.94% in Sicilians.
The very small presence of the Haplogroups E(xE3b) (i.e. clades of E other than E3b) and Haplogroup A in Europe is almost exclusively attributable to the slave trade or the occupation of the Moors.
In other words, Negroid admixture in Caucasoid Europeans is miniscule (and mostly non-existant in most parts) and only where it appears, as recent, only affecting southern europeans.
Europe is the most genetically homogenous continent.
The analysis of mtDNA sequences has proven the most high degree of homogeneity among European populations, and the genetic distances have been found to be much smaller than between populations on other continents, especially Africa (Comas et al. 1997).
White Europeans are genetically pure, to quote Zaharan a ''lily white pure race''. This is not a fantasy, its genetically proven. Its why black people envy whites and they get very upset that africa is a melting pot, while europe is the most homogenous.
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J is Asian not white sorry. Italian and Greeks are of mixed stock stop crying. Even if I ignored J the Greeks and Italians still have a sizeable amount of E and are a poor example of racial purity compared to many other areas of Europe on that map like France.
quote: Europe is the most genetically homogenous continent. This is not a fantasy, its genetically proven. Its why black people envy whites and they get very upset that africa is a melting pot, while europe is the most homogenous.
Um...saying it like that makes you sound like you're you're proud for being inbred/inbreeding though. Why would people feel inferior for having more heterogeniety? You are trying to play up inbreeding and that is very dangerous. I'm trying not to sound mean but I don't think that's anything to be bigoted about. Europe may allegedly be more homogenous, but being more homogenous doesn't mean that all of Europe is of one pure race. Especially not the Greeks and Romans.
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No one cares about the rest of Europe, Southern Europe(Greece and Rome) are the real intellectual centers of Europe and are heavily influenced by Afro-Asians. The Rest of Europe is historically and culturally insignificant.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Recurrent mutation in SNPs within Y chromosome E3b (E-M215) haplogroup: A rebuttal
Fulvio Cruciani1, Beniamino Trombetta1, Andrea Novelletto2, Rosaria Scozzari1,*
DOI: 10.1002/ajhb.20790
American Journal of Human Biology Volume 20, Issue 5, pages 614–616, September/October 2008
Abstract
In a previous issue of AJHB, Fernandes et al. (2008. Am J Hum Biol 20:185–190.) describe instances of identity by state at multiple short tandem repeat loci between human Y chromosomes belonging to different E-M35 sub-haplogroups.
They interpret these findings as evidence for multiple mutational events in at least two loci (M78 and M81). Here, we introduce a novel polymorphic marker (V68), potentially useful to investigate the issue. This marker and sequence data, reported here for the first time, reinforce our previous interpretations on the phylogenetic structure of the E3b haplogroup.
"As shall be shown, there are obvious reasons for considering whether Y Haplogroup E-M35 male lineages may have been present amongst peoples who spread the earliest Afroasiatic languages as well as the earliest technologies associated with farming and pastoralism in the Middle East, Africa and Europe."
"Ehret et al.(2004) in a short letter to , perhaps represents the first published remark associating E-M35 with the of Afroasiatic languages and Neolithic technologies, a subject this article intends to address in more detail."
"Importantly, we also wish to try to go beyond asserting that E-M35 and Afroasiatic have similar modern regional distributions. Therefore, this article shall also examine what is known of the larger phylogenetic (family tree) structure within which E-M35 is only one branching, as we must if we are to consider carefully how much genetics can add to debates in linguistics and archaeology."
"There are several relatively uncontroversial proposals concerning the ancient movements of Afroasiatic languages, each of which we can immediately compare to Haplogroup E-M35 and its sub-clades in population genetics:
Both E-M35 male lineages on the one hand, and Afroasiatic languages on the other, are seen by specialists in the two respective fields as having moved pre-historically within what Cruciani et al. (2007) refer to as a “bi-directional corridor” along the Nile and/or the western coast of the Red Sea, from the Sinai and Mediterranean, to the Horn of Africa."
"With this in mind, it is proposed that we may at least assume a strong likelihood that E-M35 male lineages were involved in at least many of the migrations and cultural transmissions which caused the present and historical distributions of the Afroasiatic languages."
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: The only blacks in greece were slaves.
Göbekli Tepe - 11,500 B.C. Which is a hilltop sanctuary built on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge about 15km northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (Urfa) in southeast Turkey.
German Archaeologist Klaus Schmidt discovered: Gobeki Tepe.
This is actually what the author mentioned:
..."and would have attracted hunter-gatherers from Africa and the Levant."...
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: No one cares about the rest of Europe, Southern Europe(Greece and Rome) are the real intellectual centers of Europe and are heavily influenced by Afro-Asians. The Rest of Europe is historically and culturally insignificant.
England not too long ago, prior and during the Roman invasion and enslavement. Traditional Celtic huts.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: No one cares about the rest of Europe, Southern Europe(Greece and Rome) are the real intellectual centers of Europe and are heavily influenced by Afro-Asians. The Rest of Europe is historically and culturally insignificant.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Otzi the caveman 3300 B.C Italian alps Vs the Kings of Ta Seti 3300 B.C now what!!
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Haplogroup J is Caucasoid originating in south-west asia. Its fully absent in Negroids.
Genetic distribution of J -
J is a Caucasoid marker, and was taken into southern europe by neolithic agriculturalists from south-western asia.
E* carriers mixed with J* carriers. At the Cresent!lol
Subtyping of Y-chromosomal haplogroup E-M78 (E1b1b1a) by SNP
Here, we describe a system for the molecular dissection of haplogroup E-M78 (E1b1b1a), consisting of multiplex polymerase chain reaction and minisequencing of M78 and nine population-informative Y-SNPs (M148, M224, V12, V13, V19, V22, V27, V32, V65) in a single reaction.
E1b1b1a, subhaplogrouping for population-of-origin prediction, the distribution of E-M78 and its derived variants was determined in an Italian population sample (n = 326).
—PN2 clade (E3) bearers in the vicinity of the Sudanese-Central African Republic -Ugandan-Kenyan region give rise to E3a ~ between 21 and 18 ky ago [pending additional or new info]; E3b-M35* would have likely arose relatively earlier than E3a*[as evidenced by its near absence in some the populations that carry this], sometime prior to the Ogolian and the LGM period. At this time, it was likely the M78 derivative that came about ~ between 19 and 15 ky ago. It was also likely during this period, that some E3b-M35 variants spilled over to the "southwest Asia", which would be identified as E-M34. The E-M78* likely arose somewhere in the bidirectional-migration route between Northeast and sub-Saharan East Africa; this location was likely in the region straddling upper Egypt and Sudan of the eastern Sahara, amongst earlier E-M35 migrants from sub-Saharan East Africa. These M78 bearers were increasingly pressured to move further south due to progressive aridity, possibly as far as Uganda-Kenya and/or Tanzanian general region.
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"The TMRCA of the European E-V13 chromosomes turns out to be 4.0–4.7 ky (under 2 different demographic expansion scenarios, see Subjects and Methods; 95% CI 3.5–4.6 ky and 4.1–5.3 ky, respectively)."
"Trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from northern Africa to Europe (mainly in the last 13.0 ky)"
"A single clade within E-M78 (E-V13) highlights a range expansion in the Bronze Age of southeastern Europe, which is also detected by haplogroup J-M12. "
~Cruciani F, et al. Mol Biol Evol. 2007 Jun;24(6):1300-11. Epub 2007 Mar 10.
Tracing past human male movements in northern/eastern Africa and western Eurasia: new clues from Y-chromosomal haplogroups E-M78 and J-M12.
quote: Indeed, the rare and incomplete Paleolithic to early Neolithic skeletal specimens found in Egypt - such as the 33,000-year-old Nazlet Khater specimen (Pinhasi and Semai 2000), the Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton from the late Paleolithic site in the upper Nile valley (Wendorf et al. 1986), the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens.
This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendents of sub-Saharan ancestral populations...... This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005).
In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
~F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. Human Biology, Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564
Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements
quote:The Upper Palaeolithic Lithic Industry of Nazlet Khater 4 (Egypt): Implications for the Stone Age/Palaeolithic of Northeastern Africa
Abstract:
Between Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 4 and 2, Northeast Africa witnessed migrations of Homo sapiens into Eurasia. Within the context of the aridification of the Sahara, the Nile Valley probably offered a very attractive corridor into Eurasia. This region and this period are therefore central for the (pre)history of the out-of-Africa peopling of modern humans. However, there are very few sites from the beginning of the Upper Palaeolithic that document these migration events. In Egypt, the site of Nazlet Khater 4 (NK4), which is related to ancient H. sapiens quarrying activities, is one of them. Its lithic assemblage shows an important laminar component, and this, associated with its chronological position (ca. 33 ka), means that the site is the most ancient Upper Palaeolithic sites of this region. The detailed study of the Nazlet Khater 4 lithic material shows that blade production (volumetric reduction) is also associated with flake production (surface reduction). This technological duality addresses the issue of direct attribution of NK4 to the Upper Palaeolithic.
~Leplongeon, Alice1; Pleurdeau, David2 Source: African Archaeological Review, Volume 28, Number 3, September 2011, pp. 213-236(24)
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quote: For the J, the West (37.5%) and Southeast (25.7%) regions have higher frequencies than the Central (17.6%) and North (16.3%) regions. Heterogeneity in the whole Peninsula is also significant .... being Saudi Arabia (21%) and Qatar (17.8%) the two countries with the highest J frequencies.
However,
This is mainly due to the comparatively high frequency of sub-Saharan lineages in Yemen (38%) compared to Oman-Qatar (16%) and to Saudi Arabia-UAE (10%). Most probably, the higher frequencies shown in southern countries reflect their greater proximity to Africa, separated only by the Bab al Mandab strait. However, when attending to the relative contribution of the different L haplogroups, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Yemen are highly similar for their L3 (34%), L2 (36%) and L0 (21%) frequencies whereas in Oman and UAE the bulk of L lineages belongs to L3 (72%).
Two potential migratory routes followed by modern humans to colonize Eurasia from Africa have been proposed. These are the two natural passageways that connect both continents: the northern route through the Sinai Peninsula and the southern route across the Bab al Mandab strait.
Recent archaeological and genetic evidence have favored a unique southern coastal route. Under this scenario, the study of the population genetic structure of the Arabian Peninsula, the first step out of Africa, to search for primary genetic links between Africa and Eurasia, is crucial.
The haploid and maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) molecule has been the most used genetic marker to identify and to relate lineages with clear geographic origins, as the African Ls and the Eurasian M and N that have a common root with the Africans L3.
"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
Under these suppositions, the Arabian Peninsula, as an obliged step between East Africa and South Asia, has gained crucial importance, and indeed several mtDNA studies have recently been published for this region [30-32]. However, it seems that the bulk of the Arab mtDNA lineages have northern Neolithic or more recent Asian or African origins....
~Khaled K Abu-Amero et al.
Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
quote:We use high-resolution genetic data to investigate the genetic and linguistic support for hypotheses concerning the population history in the Chad Basin. The mitochondrial L3f3 haplogroup is found almost exclusively in Chadic speaking populations and its TMRCA corresponds well with archaeological and linguistic dates of the proposed migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists from East or North East Africa to the Chad Basin.
Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
..."The youngest clade, L3f1b2, seems to be more frequent in the Middle East. L3f1a seems to be older (37,700 ± 10,000 YBP) than its sister sub-haplogroup L3f1b and is also less diversified. A few samples from Chad belong to these sub-haplogroups: two to L3f1a and one to L3f1b3."
"We then estimated pairwise FST genetic distances between populations (Additional file 4) and displayed these on a MDS plot (Figure 3). Interesting results are immediately evident – while Chadic populations form a relatively homogeneous group, the Cushitic populations split into two completely different clusters. The first group is composed of Horn of African populations, such as Ethiopian and Somali Cushitic populations, which are close to neighbouring Ethiopian Semitic speaking groups and relatively close also to Chadic people from the Chad Basin. The second Cushitic group is composed by more southern groups from Tanzania, i.e. Burunge and Iraqw, who occupy outlier positions even within the Afro-Asiatic MDS plot. In the MDS plot, geography is more strongly associated with genetic distance than is linguistic affiliation.
Overall, we observe that Chadic speaking populations are intermixed with other populations from Chad Basin, including Niger-Congo, Semitic, and Berber speaking people. In this context, it seems that the linguistic categories play a secondary role in structuring the genetic diversity."
~Viktor Černý1 et al.
Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
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Thank you! I was looking for stuff like this!
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This is not a fantasy, its genetically proven. Its why black people envy whites and they get very upset that africa is a melting pot, while europe is the most homogenous.
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