posted
Gotta give you your props on this one mike, this Image is always touted as proof of "black" slaves..
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Mike even duped anguishedbeing, good one Mike
In the scene in the initial post the child is indeed bing sold. However Mike lied and added "seated" into the text he copied attributing either one of the Egyptian ladies or possibly Ethiopian slaves as being Al Harith clever but a lie Abu Zayd and Al_Harith
Arab 3929 f.122 Farewells of Abu-Zayd and Al-Harith before the return to Mecca, from 'Al Maqamat' (The Meetings) by Al-Hariri, c.1240 (vellum) Arab 3929 f.122 Farewells of Abu-Zayd and Al-Harith before the return to Mecca, from 'Al Maqamat' (The Meetings) by Al-Hariri, c.1240 (vellum), Persian School, (13th century) / Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris, France / The Bridgeman Art Library
Al Harith, son of Hammam, and the browser vagabond Abu Zayd (Abu Zayd) on another boat on the Euphrates T'Maqamat' Abu Mohammed by al-Wasiti ^^^remember him he's the artist who did the same piece Mike put up
^^^^ Folks, look at this website in particular. This has extensive manuscript illustrations from Maqāmāt of al-Hariri 1222-23AD
Illustrations from
Maqāmāt of al-Hariri
(Abou Mohammad al-Qāsim ibn ‛Ali ibn Mohammad ibn ‛Ali al-Hariri al-Basri) Bibliothèque nationale de France, manuscript Arabe 6094, dated 619H, 1222-23ADSyria or the Jazira
Abu Zayd and listeners
al-Harith invited to lunch
Abu Zayd practicing medicine
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Gotta give you your props on this one mike, this Image is always touted as proof of "black" slaves..
So I guess all the sh1t that I have been doing here since 2005 kinda just went over your head.
Well at least now I know that you are Black, for only a Negro could be that stupid. Eight years to figure it out, that must be some sort of a record.
Anyway, lets see what you have learned:
Above Lioness has been Spamming her normal lies and bullsh1t. How about reading the text link and pointing out her lies - prove you're ready to be a person of knowledge and truth.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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additional nails in coffin: 13th c, by Artist al-Wasiti Al Harith at slave market (standing at right) trying to buy a remarkably beautiful young boy. "I want a lad who gives statisfaction when he is probed"
(Al Harith left, Abu Zayd sitting, being served food at right)
" lioness you were on the ropes but then delivered a knockout blow to Mike"
It doesn't matter he has built a new lie for his world history webiste: mis-identifying Al Harith It's permanent miseducation now. Changing history for the sake of feel-goodism This thread will eventually get lost, even deleted but where would you be without me? In fantasyland ?
lioness productions every day like a vitamin
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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^Lioness, I see that you have run out of lies and general nonsense to post, so a serious question:
Above mention is made of the Boys beauty rather than his handsomeness or sturdiness. Is it just me, or does that sound a little strange?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Lioness, I see that you have run out of lies and general nonsense to post, so a serious question:
Above mention is made of the Boys beauty rather than his handsomeness or sturdiness. Is it just me, or does that sound a little strange?
Well now you have a dilemma your black Al Harith on your website likes little Justin Bieber type boys your source says:
excerpts:
For the boy, now openly claiming his freedom, appeals to the Kadi of the place, who con-
THIRTY-FOURTH ASSEMBLY. 63
firms his statement, by mentioning, that only the day before his father had given in court a declaration to that effect. On further inquiry, HaTith learns with dismay that the father's name is Abu Zayd, and he forswears all future intercourse with the wily Shaykh....
Now when I looked at his straight build and his exquisite beauty, I fancied him one of the youths of the garden of delight (Paradise), and quoth : " This is not a man, but for sooth an honoured angel." Then I wished him to enounce his name, not from a desire to
THIRTY-FQ URTH ASSEMBLY. 65
know it, but to see whether his elocution matched his comeliness and how his utterance responded to the fairness of his countenance. But he spoke not either sweet or bitter, and uttered not a sound of the son of slave-woman or a woman of free birth....
" I want a lad who gives satisfaction when he is probed [tried] and who is approved when he is tested, and let him be one of those whom the intelligent have brought out, and poverty alone has thrown into the market." Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Lioness, must you always be an ass? I have never suggested that there were no homosexuals in the population of Negroes. My question has to do with the seeming normalness of it in that time and place. The material of your post goes even further, suggesting that it is part of the heavenly experience.
Does anyone know if Lesbians get the same benefit?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Lioness, must you always be an ass? I have never suggested that there were no homosexuals in the population of Negroes. My question has to do with the seeming normalness of it in that time and place. The material of your post goes even further, suggesting that it is part of the heavenly experience.
Does anyone know if Lesbians get the same benefit?
I told you clown, the material in my last post was from YOUR link
The artist was from Southern Iraq.
If you have questions about homosexuality of the period look it up:
homosexual maqama
Maqāma (literally "assemblies") are an (originally) Arabic literary genre of rhymed prose with intervals of poetry in which rhetorical extravagance is conspicuous. Typically, there are 50 unrelated episodes in which the rogue character, often in disguise, tricks the narrator out of his money and leads him into various straitened, embarrassing, and even violent circumstances. Despite this serial abuse, the narrator-dupe character continues to seek out the trickster, fascinated by his rhetorical flow.
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^I do declare Lioness, you seem so defensive when dealing with issues pertaining to Turk culture, any particular reason?
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well If you had said it rather than typed it they might have been moving back and forth, but I should have realized typing it was entailed, Mike 1, lioness 9
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: well If you had said it rather than typed it they might have been moving back and forth, but I should have realized typing it was entailed, Mike 1, lioness 9
Lioness, I sense a definite pique from you. I was trying to decide if it was from being bested or perhaps, you were uncomfortable with discussing Islamic issues.
But then I realized that I have been whipping your pink ass mercilessly for years now, it makes no sense for you to piqued by that all of a sudden now.
Logically then, the problem must be in discussing Islamic things. As you know my interest is in uncovering truth, and speaking truth, not in offending anyone. So please respond to related issues with that in mind.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: well If you had said it rather than typed it they might have been moving back and forth, but I should have realized typing it was entailed, Mike 1, lioness 9
Lioness, I sense a definite pique from you. I was trying to decide if it was from being bested or perhaps, you were uncomfortable with discussing Islamic issues.
But then I realized that I have been whipping your pink ass mercilessly for years now, it makes no sense for you to piqued by that all of a sudden now.
Logically then, the problem must be in discussing Islamic things. As you know my interest is in uncovering truth, and speaking truth, not in offending anyone. So please respond to related issues with that in mind.
I brought up the homosexual implications of the character in the story you believe to be black, I brought it up not you remember ?
To me it was a side issue to the topic but you seem to take additional interetst in it
but you are afraid to even put word togethers on the topic of homosexuality in Islamic culture and are trying to make me do the work for you, what a coward
no more spoon feeding it's time for you to leave the nest
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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And back to the discussion on the first pic. The fact is the black men are buying the slave. The black men are NOT slaves which was the perception. 2ndly the Abu guy is from Syria, he traveled to Yemen. Therefore, according to the pic, Yemenis are black. Syrians are lighter. The slave traveled with the Abu guy so he is Syrian. Again this is in line with DNATribes 2013.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: And back to the discussion on the first pic. The fact is the black men are buying the slave. The black men are NOT slaves which was the perception. 2ndly the Abu guy is from Syria, he traveled to Yemen. Therefore, according to the pic, Yemenis are black. Syrians are lighter. The slave traveled with the Abu guy so he is Syrian. Again this is in line with DNATribes 2013.
I posted the Arabic translation. Mike properly identified the story the text was descibing, the buyer of the boy is Al Harith an associate of Abu Zayd.
xyyman, this is an intelliegence test. Who is Al Harith in this picture. I want to hear you say it, unless you're scared: Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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xyyman - Al Harith's full name is, Al Harith son of Hammam of Basra. The author and the two main characters were all Iraqi's.
A few days ago, I posted that the greatest of all Muslim heroes - Saladin - was a Black Iraqi. Do keep these things in mind.
As to Lioness question, I know of no translation which says which of the seated Black men is Al Harith. But since he is the main character and purchaser, he must be the one farthest in the front.
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Ahmm, I'm not the one who gleefully cut and paste shyt they didn't even understand from the crackpot Nizkor website, retard. LOL! Not to mention your crackpot theories on hyper-sexual activities among the different races in ancient world... Oh, and I'm not the one who got their ass handed to them by the ES "scholar" Mike Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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Whether the blacks in the picture are slaves or not, Dana has made it clear long time ago that the folks portrayed in the pictures are not even true Arabs but light-skinned northern folks who were 'Arabized' or Islamicized. Even the artwork itself is not Arab since pictures of living things are forbidden in Islam but Turkic in style.
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: xyyman - Al Harith's full name is, Al Harith son of Hammam of Basra. The author and the two main characters were all Iraqi's.
A few days ago, I posted that the greatest of all Muslim heroes - Saladin - was a Black Iraqi. Do keep these things in mind.
As to Lioness question, I know of no translation which says which of the seated Black men is Al Harith. But since he is the main character and purchaser, he must be the one farthest in the front.
The bottom row of figures are at the same distance to the viewer except the second and third black figures and a lighter skinned figure furthest back. Your source also mentions Egyptian ladies
Regardless, the arist al-Wasiti, who made the illustration you posted at the top of the thread has other illustrations of the same book such as one titled "Abu Zayd speaking with Al Harith" which I posted It is clear Al Harith looks similar to his associate Abu Zayd, a bearded man with a turban and there are quite a few other similarly old illustrations depicting him
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Whether the blacks in the picture are slaves or not, Dana has made it clear long time ago that the folks portrayed in the pictures are not even true Arabs but light-skinned northern folks who were 'Arabized' or Islamicized. Even the artwork itself is not Arab since pictures of living things are forbidden in Islam but Turkic in style.
Centuries ago Yemeni arabs brought in slaves from Ethiopia as slave soldiers. The Egyptians brought Ethiopian slaves into Egypt in the 19th century. If there were photos of modern day people who were descendants of them you and dana not knowing their ancestry would be claiming they are "true Arabs" or "real Egyptians". Example you keep posting that Tuareg boy ignoring Ottoni on the maternal ancestry of them.
"Arab" is a culture with suggestions of original ethnicity. They are charcterized by the J haplogroup They tend toward straight hair and tend to look like a people of various proportions of in between black and white looking. You can look at the San and Mandelas and realize long term residents of the Maghreb would not generally be as dark as equatorial Africans, even before considering all the occupations that have occured in the past 3000+ years. Did the first people of Arabia enter the penninsula from the North or out of what is now Djibouti across the Red Sea? That is uncertain. Are the earliest Muslims of the peninsula related primarily to them? Also uncertain
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posted
What's this? High School double dare? Ha! Ha!
Quote: "xyyman, this is an intelliegence test. Who is Al Harith in this picture. I want to hear you say it, unless you're scared"
============ Glad to see that you can admit when you are wrong. “You win some you lose some” That is what happens with an inexact science. The blacks are NOT slaves. They are the ones doing the purchasing. I read the narrative. Yes the small person is being sold. The black man makes an offer – two fingers. The merchant seems to make a conter-offer also “two fingers’. The Black men are looking over the “product”. The “cashier clerk” in the back-ground is “weighing” the payment. From the narrative it looks like the seller is lowering the value of the slave. The time-line equates to the migration of people from the Turkey through the Levant into South Arabia.
Quote: lioness productions team recent rough translation:
"And I thought that he'll look askance at me and raise the price on me but he didn't He said ' when the his price for a slave is low and his provision is light, then his lord will be blessed by him' And I keep trying to make you love this kid by lowering his price, so weigh 200 Dirhams if you wish and thank me as long as you live, so I gave him the money right away as a cheap thing given away for the precious thing
You are done with the Science and Math classes now onto Reading Comprehension. I will oblige
“And I thought that he'll look askance at me and raise the price on me”. The narrative is by the black man. The merchant wants to raise the price on him for the small person. “I keep trying to make you love this kid by lowering his price”. The merchant lower the price because his provisions is low. In other words. It look like he did not have enough provision to sell so as a last resort he sold this person ..apparently someone of the same ethnic group as him.
“so I gave him the money right away as a cheap thing given away”. The buyer was happy with the deal, he got a bargain.
“I got your albinos. Right there in 13 c Yemen, with the turbans” . Obviously the bearded men are not land owners or upper class since they are selling produce and their own kind. Most likely new migrants to the area.
See what one can do with an IQ of 144.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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As I mentioned before I DO NOT rely on a book written by Europeans to interpret I what I see. I asked for the translation at the top of the painting. And I was dead on.
What is documented in "history" books can be falsified. A good example is that Tunisian paper on hg-H I recently posted on ESR. History books say that 80,000 Moors were expelled from Iberia and resettled in Tunisia. The genetic data do not add up. Math don't lie, people writing books do. It looks more like 800 Moors were expelled.
This is maybe a good example of Europeans embellishing their historical achievement.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Now we know the name of the merchant is "Al Harith" who brought the slave with him and is trying to push the slave off to the black men one of whom is an incarnation(embodiment) of Abu.
Bottomline is my interpretation of the painting was right without the added fact I never heard of these Turkish stories before.
The Arabic written on the painting plus the facial gestures and body language tells the story. And I was right as usual.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Your point?? as I said, the Al H guy has a staff. The black man has his boy also. So what? The Turk is selling his kind to the black men ...for what...200$$?
Travelling sales men have been around for awhile. reminds me of the well dressed vacuum sales men or the Jews in Brooklyn back in the day.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Whether the blacks in the picture are slaves or not, Dana has made it clear long time ago that the folks portrayed in the pictures are not even true Arabs but light-skinned northern folks who were 'Arabized' or Islamicized. Even the artwork itself is not Arab since pictures of living things are forbidden in Islam but Turkic in style.
Centuries ago Yemeni arabs brought in slaves from Ethiopia as slave soldiers. The Egyptians brought Ethiopian slaves into Egypt in the 19th century. If there were photos of modern day people who were descendants of them you and dana not knowing their ancestry would be claiming they are "true Arabs" or "real Egyptians". Example you keep posting that Tuareg boy ignoring Ottoni on the maternal ancestry of them.
"Arab" is a culture with suggestions of original ethnicity. They are charcterized by the J haplogroup They tend toward straight hair and tend to look like a people of various proportions of in between black and white looking. You can look at the San and Mandelas and realize long term residents of the Maghreb would not generally be as dark as equatorial Africans, even before considering all the occupations that have occured in the past 3000+ years. Did the first people of Arabia enter the penninsula from the North or out of what is now Djibouti across the Red Sea? That is uncertain. Are the earliest Muslims of the peninsula related primarily to them? Also uncertain
"But what is not uncertain is that AE and Carthage would be considered mixed civlisations as a result of all the hyper-sexual activities of blacks, while Greece and Rome were primarily white because whites didn't have as much sex with others." - Lioness
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Good post,Mike and Xyyman job well done.
you too? unbelievable. You think Al-Harith mentioned in Mike's caption is the black person sitting?
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:you too? unbelievable. You think Al-Harith mentioned in Mike's caption is the black person sitting?
No but that the Blacks sitting were not necessarily slaves,look it's a simple reflex an ancient slave mart in Arabia,Blacks are at the slave mart, without knowing the context it is easily assumed the Blacks are being sold,I upon glancing the pic many times also made that assumption.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:you too? unbelievable. You think Al-Harith mentioned in Mike's caption is the black person sitting?
No but that the Blacks sitting were not necessarily slaves,look it's a simple reflex an ancient slave mart in Arabia,Blacks are at the slave mart, without knowing the context it is easily assumed the Blacks are being sold,I upon glancing the pic many times also made that assumption.
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
I can't believe how incredibly stupid you ass-holes are.
Can you read???
Can you comprehend what you read???
Lets go over the text:
We will identify everyone by the process of elimination.
Abu Zayd appears in the character of a slave merchant: Leave him for the time being.
Al-Harith is the purchaser of a slave: leave him for the time being too.
A man muffled-up in a face veil offers him a youth for sale.
There is only one man in a veil and one youth, they are both at the front left.
So WHO is the man in the veil offering the youth to?
The possibilities are the sitting Black men and the standing White man on the right.
Since Abu Zayd is mentioned separately; we can deduce that he is not the same as the slave merchant in the veil. Therefore he must be the standing White man on the right, or one of the three men at the top.
Since the men at the top appear to have no function in the scene, other than to represent the slave market, Abu Zayd must be the standing White man on the right. OR one of the Black men.
BUT in other text Al-Harith is indicated as traveling with companions whereas Abu Zayd is singular.
Now, WHO is left to be Al-Harith???
Damnnnn you fuchers are stupid.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
But if this pic^ is correct then Al-Harith is travelling with companions the Blackmen were engaged in an auction. Mike
quote:Since the men at the top appear to have no function in the scene, other than to represent the slave market, Abu Zayd must be the standing White man on the right. OR one of the Black men. BUT in other text Al-Harith is indicated as traveling with companions whereas Abu Zayd is singular. Now, WHO is left to be Al-Harith???
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,: Centuries ago Yemeni arabs brought in slaves from Ethiopia as slave soldiers. The Egyptians brought Ethiopian slaves into Egypt in the 19th century. If there were photos of modern day people who were descendants of them you and dana not knowing their ancestry would be claiming they are "true Arabs" or "real Egyptians". Example you keep posting that Tuareg boy ignoring Ottoni on the maternal ancestry of them.
Stupid strawman arguments. Ethiopian slaves have nothing to do with the black appearance of indigenous non-Arab Egyptians such as the Baladi and Sa'idi. Neither do Ethiopian slaves have anything to do with the black appearance of indigenous Yemenis. Have you even seen the pictures of the Yemeni slave traders who captured and sold the Ethiopian slaves?! LOL I have, because Doug M actually posted 19th century photos of them, and trust me there is no difference in color between the traders and the slaves, especially in the old black-and-white photos.
As far as the Ottoni findings on maternal ancestry of the Tuareg. As I've explained so-called 'Eurasian' ancestry comes from Southwest Asia, specifically Arabia from a time when the peoples were not different from the Africans across the Red Sea so really the so-called 'Eurasian' ancestry makes no difference because the Eurasians were just as BLACK as their African kin right next door.
quote:"Arab" is a culture with suggestions of original ethnicity. They are charcterized by the J haplogroup They tend toward straight hair and tend to look like a people of various proportions of in between black and white looking. You can look at the San and Mandelas and realize long term residents of the Maghreb would not generally be as dark as equatorial Africans, even before considering all the occupations that have occured in the past 3000+ years. Did the first people of Arabia enter the penninsula from the North or out of what is now Djibouti across the Red Sea? That is uncertain. Are the earliest Muslims of the peninsula related primarily to them? Also uncertain
Correction. 'Arab' is a linguistic and cultural term the same way 'Hispanic' is and says NOTHING about ancestry or looks. Of course modern 'Arabs' vary for the very reasons I just stated. Even in Arabia Arabs vary with fair types in the north and black types in the south. Yes hg J is predominant for Arabians in general but so what? J1 is found in Sudan and the Horn which predates any Arab ethnicity let alone Islamic invasion and underived J* is found in southern Arabia and Soqotra whose indigenes are also still black!
By the way, the ancestor of hg J is hg IJK and its ancestor is hg F. Underived F* is barely found in Arabia yet is found in significant frequencies in Sudan. So this whole stereotype of straight haired 'brown' or 'off-white' indigenous Arabians and blacks limited to Ethiopian slaves is a lie that was busted years ago yet your lyinass loves rehashing it. Don't you?
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^^^^ your arguments are reasonable, yet how could one look at given person and really know how deep there ancestry is in the region? You do this all the time with photos. Example, take someone form Cameroon, dress them in Moroccan clothes and if you did not know this you would be saying the person was original Haratin of Morocco. Besides that kids hair is combed out and frizzy and stiff , not limp and wavy straight like the Juba statue. Dana would argue the statue is not accurate to the real Juba, something along those lines, you read the quote. You can't both be right.
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Since Abu Zayd is mentioned separately; we can deduce that he is not the same as the slave merchant in the veil. Therefore he must be the standing White man on the right, or one of the three men at the top.
Mike give up already:
.
now I need an apology for that foul mouthed outburst
Posts: 42922 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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As usual with you ass-holes, you take leave of your senses and reality. My analysis was ONLY for that one picture, why? Because we are dealing with copies of copies, done at a much later time, with an obvious racial agenda - LIKE MOST ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS WORKS DONE BY TURKS!
Please consider this ass-holes, the book was written (circa 1100) at the time of these "Supposed" copies of the book (circa 1200), the ruler of all of the Arab world is the descendants of great and very Black Kurd, Saladin (1174–1193). At this time, there would have been relatively few Albinos in the area, yet Blacks are rarely seen in the illustrations - can you ass-holes figure the rest out?????
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Illustration of the Procession at the end of Ramadan showing the Abbasids' black banners from a copy of al-Hariri's Maqamat; Baghdad, 643/1237. Bibliotheque nationale, Paris, MS arabe 5847, fol.19a
.
Come-on ass-holes, the Abbasids were the last Black Arab dynasty. Do you really think they were Albinos, or even Mulattoes?
Obviously these illustrations are "Normal" Albino fakes and falsifications.
Need I also point out that there is no way in hell or the bullshit world of Sand Niggers and lying Albinos that an 800 year-old picture will look like that or be in anywhere near that good a condition!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^^ your arguments are reasonable, yet how could one look at given person and really know how deep there ancestry is in the region? You do this all the time with photos.
Yet you do this all the time. Your "research methodology" is nothing but fuking picture spam. LOL!
quote:something along those lines
You dirty tongue twisting troll.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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^Here is what an "Authentic" piece of art "would" have looked like, as regards racial content.
BUT - Let us not forget that we have not settled the issue of Muslims NOT painting PEOPLE!
Album page showing a Sufi wearing a blue robe; 15th century. Topkapi Palace Library, Istanbul, H 2153, fol. 92.b
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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This is a link to more Maqamat Al-Hariri illustrations. Note that these look "Authentic" why the paper even looks old and worn, but the characters look different. That's the thing with bullsh1t fakes, quality control becomes an issue.
posted
Now back to the issue of Muslims NOT painting people or even living things.
If we can figure out when authentic Muslim depictions of living things started, it might help us to figure out what, if any, of the old Muslim art is the real thing.
While we're at it, lets not forget that illiteracy was even more common in the old Muslim world that it is today, Muhammad was reported to be illiterate, so to whom was all of this writing directed?
So then, they weren't suppose to draw people, and most everyone was illiterate. Yet there is all of this art and literature: someone please make sense of this nonsense.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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