posted
According to the Fulani Sokoto Sultan Mohammed Bello and the Libyan president Muhamar Kaddafi the Yoruba people of Nigeria migrated to Nigeria from the Arabian peninsula.
posted
^ Yeah all Islamicized folks not only in Africa but in Asia claim origins in Arabia or even say they are related to Prophet Muhammad. What's your point?
As for the topic question, that is a difficult one to answer since Arabia has experienced various waves of immigration since ancient times. The earliest I could think of was the Assyrian expansion, however there is evidence of northerner migration into Arabia even before that. This no doubt coincides with Sumerian depictions of fair-skinned individuals or representatives of tribes.
Posts: 26260 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
There is some evidence for the argument that modern humans left Africa at least 125,000 years before present (BP) using two different routes: the Nile Valley heading to the Middle East, at least into modern Israel (Qafzeh: 120,000–100,000 years BP); and a second one through the present-day Bab-el-Mandeb Strait on the Red Sea (at that time, with a much lower sea level and narrower extension), crossing it into the Arabian Peninsula, settling in places like the present-day United Arab Emirates (125,000 years BP) and Oman (106,000 years BP) and then possibly going into the Indian Subcontinent (Jwalapuram: 75,000 years BP). Despite the fact that no human remains have yet been found in these three places, the apparent similarities between the stone tools found at Jebel Faya, the ones from Jwalapuram and some African ones suggest that their creators were all modern humans. These findings might give some support to the claim that modern humans from Africa arrived at southern China about 100,000 years BP (Zhiren Cave, Zhirendong, Chongzuo City: 100,000 years BP; and the Liujiang hominid: controversially dated at 139,000–111,000 years BP
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^ Hidaya was not asking when Arabia were first occupied by modern humans, he was asking when it was first occupied by NON-native groups or peoples who are not indigenous i.e. the non-black lighter-skinned folks.
To Hidaya: there are a few books on Arabian history that may address this which I don't have access to at the moment. What I can do is provide links to a couple of threads below related to this one:
posted
^My point was that ALL people who inhabit lands east of Arabia (except the Grimaldi types in Ma'lta Siberia and thereabouts), at one time lived in Arabia, likely for hundreds or thousands of years. As to Whites - Albinos were certainly a part of the OOA migration groups.
Post OOA, circa 1,500 B.C. the Aryans invaded India. Certainly some of them crossed the straits to trade.
Later, the Albino Parthians temporarily took over the Persian empire. They too would have gone into Arabia.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Let me clarify, I wanted to know if it was possible to reach a date (6th century, 640 AD etc) of when Greeks, Romans Turkish and others got in contact with indigenous folks. I know the Original inhabitants of Arabia were East African.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^^ Hidaya was not asking when Arabia were first occupied by modern humans, he was asking when it was first occupied by NON-native groups or peoples who are not indigenous i.e. the non-black lighter-skinned folks.
To Hidaya: there are a few books on Arabian history that may address this which I don't have access to at the moment. What I can do is provide links to a couple of threads below related to this one:
Thanks! BTW, what happened to the website with all the little info squares (you post them a lot)? It doesn't work anymore...
Posts: 200 | From: Akahara | Registered: Aug 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ I think you are confusing me with Zarahan. He's the one with the website featuring info squares with graphics.
quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: Let me clarify, I wanted to know if it was possible to reach a date (6th century, 640 AD etc) of when Greeks, Romans Turkish and others got in contact with indigenous folks. I know the Original inhabitants of Arabia were East African.
I think lighter-skinned folk entered Arabia far earlier in ancient times, definitely by Iron Age times (per Assyria) if not earlier.
Posts: 26260 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I think you are confusing me with Zarahan. He's the one with the website featuring info squares with graphics.
quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: Let me clarify, I wanted to know if it was possible to reach a date (6th century, 640 AD etc) of when Greeks, Romans Turkish and others got in contact with indigenous folks. I know the Original inhabitants of Arabia were East African.
I think lighter-skinned folk entered Arabia far earlier in ancient times, definitely by Iron Age times (per Assyria) if not earlier.
Dana and mike do not believe that. I guess the dna info and other info did not convince them.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why do you not accept all of the genetics Firewall. Troll Patrol is up on ALL of the genetics. See below.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Firewall:
I CAME BACK BECAUSE I FOUND SOMETHING THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MINDS,BUT OF COURSE IT WILL BE IGNORED. I will post below and leave if i come back it's to read lioness post.
Maybe dana or mike i might come back to read because there are fun at times or entertaining but i can't take too much of that,it's not good for my overall health. THE Djehuti UNIT I WILL IGNORE ON THIS ISSUE,BY THE WAY HE IS NOT FUN.
WAIT for my next post.
Speaking of credible:
"when you're doing academic research, you should be extremely cautious about using Wikipedia"
"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
Under these suppositions, the Arabian Peninsula, as an obliged step between East Africa and South Asia, has gained crucial importance, and indeed several mtDNA studies have recently been published for this region [30-32]. However, it seems that the bulk of the Arab mtDNA lineages have northern Neolithic or more recent Asian or African origins....
--Khaled K Abu-Amero et al. (2008) Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
quote: Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
--Viktor Černý1 et al. (2009) Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
Do I believe Arabs and Assyrians had contact with each other during the iron age, of course I do. And as I said contact and absorption began much earlier than that although it doesn't appear to have modified the generally Sudanic appearance of the northern Arabian and Hijazi populations whom the texts described as black until the era of the entrance of the Mameluk Turks after the 14th century and movement of Syrian bedouin like the Shammar back southward.
You still didn't answer my question Firewall. Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by HidayaAkade: Let me clarify, I wanted to know if it was possible to reach a date (6th century, 640 AD etc) of when Greeks, Romans Turkish and others got in contact with indigenous folks. I know the Original inhabitants of Arabia were East African.
Greeks, and Sassanids/Parthians started coming in through trade a couple of centuries before the Christian era. Romans also settled in Jordan Palestine and Petra/Nabataea. Turkish and Persian folk as slaves of the Arabs were part of the early Islamic waves of the Carmathians, 10th century but were mainly. Early Islamic Persians or Ebna were known to have taken over Sanaa and many other towns of the Yemen by that time as well.
The Ayyubid dynasty of the 12th century in Yemen was Kurdish and the Rasulids in Yemen were Turkmani 13th century.
Mamelukes settled in Hijaz after the 14th century. Turkish people were also a noted by the English large part and in control of commercial activities in the Yemen by the British colonialists.
Naturally the descendants of all these people today almost all claim purely Arab descent.
Syrian or Syrianized bedouin that are no longer mainly Arab in blood have been migrating back into Arabia for the past 350 or so years.
Posts: 4226 | From: New Jersey, USA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
In the period 5500–4000 B.C., much of Mesopotamia shared a common culture, called Ubaid after the site where evidence for it was first found. Characterized by a distinctive type of pottery, this culture originated on the flat alluvial plains of southern Mesopotamia (ancient Iraq) around 6200 B.C. Indeed, it was during this period that the first identifiable villages developed in the region, where people farmed the land using irrigation and fished the rivers and sea (Persian Gulf). Thick layers of alluvial silt deposited every spring by the flooding rivers cover many of these sites. Some villages began to develop into towns and became focused on monumental buildings, such as at Eridu and Uruk. The Ubaid culture spread north across Mesopotamia, gradually replacing the Halaf culture. Ubaid pottery is also found to the south, along the west coast of the Persian Gulf, perhaps transported there by fishing expeditions. Baked clay figurines, mainly female, decorated with painted or appliqué ornament and lizardlike heads, have been found at a number of Ubaid sites. Simple clay tokens may have been used for the symbolic representation of commodities, and pendants and stamp seals may have had a similar symbolism, if not function. During this period, the repertory of seal designs expands to include snakes, birds, and animals with humans. There is much continuity between the Ubaid culture and the succeeding Uruk period, when many of the earlier traditions were elaborated, particularly in architecture. aid 3/4, sometimes called Ubaid I and Ubaid II[6] — In the period from 4500–4000 BC saw a period of intense and rapid urbanisation with the Ubaid culture spread into northern Mesopotamia replacing (after a hiatus) the Halaf culture. Ubaid artifacts spread also all along the Arabian littoral, showing the growth of a trading system that stretched from the Mediterranean coast through to Oman. The archaeological record shows that Arabian Bifacial/Ubaid period came to an abrupt end in eastern Arabia and the Oman peninsula at 3800 BC, just after the phase of lake lowering and onset of dune reactivation.At this time, increased aridity led to an end in semi-desert nomadism, and there is no evidence of human presence in the area for approximately 1000 years, the so-called "Dark Millennium"Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: Why do you not accept all of the genetics Firewall. Troll Patrol is up on ALL of the genetics. See below.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Firewall:
I CAME BACK BECAUSE I FOUND SOMETHING THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MINDS,BUT OF COURSE IT WILL BE IGNORED. I will post below and leave if i come back it's to read lioness post.
Maybe dana or mike i might come back to read because there are fun at times or entertaining but i can't take too much of that,it's not good for my overall health. THE Djehuti UNIT I WILL IGNORE ON THIS ISSUE,BY THE WAY HE IS NOT FUN.
WAIT for my next post.
Speaking of credible:
"when you're doing academic research, you should be extremely cautious about using Wikipedia"
"Particularly, Yemen has the largest contribution of L lineages (30). So, most probably, this area was the entrance gate of a portion of these lineages in prehistoric times, which participated in the building of the primitive Arabian population."
Under these suppositions, the Arabian Peninsula, as an obliged step between East Africa and South Asia, has gained crucial importance, and indeed several mtDNA studies have recently been published for this region [30-32]. However, it seems that the bulk of the Arab mtDNA lineages have northern Neolithic or more recent Asian or African origins....
--Khaled K Abu-Amero et al. (2008) Mitochondrial DNA structure in the Arabian Peninsula
quote: Haplogroup L3f is defined by the coding variants
3396-4218-15514-15944del and the control region motif 16209–16519 with a TMRCA of 57,100 ± 9,400 YBP. This haplogroup diversifies into sub-haplogroups L3f1, L3f2 and L3f3. The most geographically widespread sub-haplogroup is L3f1, which is distributed across the African continent [3] and also Arabia [32,33] and has a TMRCA of 48,600 ± 11,500 YBP.
--Viktor Černý1 et al. (2009) Migration of Chadic speaking pastoralists within Africa based on population structure of Chad Basin and phylogeography of mitochondrial L3f haplogroup
Do I believe Arabs and Assyrians had contact with each other during the iron age, of course I do. And as I said contact and absorption began much earlier than that although it doesn't appear to have modified the generally Sudanic appearance of the northern Arabian and Hijazi populations whom the texts described as black until the era of the entrance of the Mameluk Turks after the 14th century and movement of Syrian bedouin like the Shammar back southward.
You still didn't answer my question Firewall. [/QUOTE]
I did,and the arabs are from the north and not native to arabia like the south arabians,meaning the arabs origin was not black. The original arabs are/were not black.
Posts: 2560 | From: Somewhere | Registered: May 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Case closed. Bye.
Origin of the Arabs – Encyclopeadia Britannica 1902
Origin of the [Pure] Arab Race
The origin of the Arab race, like that of most others, can only be matter of conjecture; no credit can be attached to the assertions, evidently unbased on historical facts, of those authors who, building on the narrow foundation of Hebrew records, have included the entire nation under the titles of Ismael and Joktan; and Mahometan testimony on these matters can have no more weight than the Jewish, from which it is evidently derived. Setting, therefore, these vague and half-poetical traditions aside, the first certain fact on which to base our investigations is the ancient and undoubted division of the Arab race into two branches, the “Arab,” or pure; and the “Mostareb,” or adscititious.
The geographical limits of both branches have already been sufficiently indicated. A second fact is, that everything in pre-Islamitic literature and record-the only reliable authorities in such a case, as preserved to us in the Hamasa, the Kitab-el-Aghanee, the writings of Musaoodee and Abul Feda, the stories of Antarah or Mohalhet, and the like-concurs in representing the first settlement of the “pure” Arabs as made on the extreme south-western point of the peninsula, near Aden, and thence spreading northward and eastward over Yemen, Hadramaut, and Oman.
A third is the name Himyar, or “dusky,” given now to the ruling class, now to the entire nation; a circumstance pointing, like the former, to African origin.
A fourth is the Himyaritic language-now, indeed, almost lost, but some words of which have been preserved either in proper names or even in whole sentences handed down. They are African in character, often in identity. Indeed, the dialect commonly used along the south-eastern coast hardly differs from that used by the Somawlee Africans on the opposite shore; but later intermixture of blood and constant intercourse may have much to do with this.
Fifthly, it is remarkable that where the grammar of the Arabic, now spoken by the “pure” Arabs, differs from that of the north, it approaches to or coincides with the Abyssinian. Now, it is well known to philologists that grammatical inflections are a much more abiding and intimate test of origin than separate nouns or even verbs. Sixthly, the pre-Islamitic institutions of Yemen and its allied provinces-its monarchies, courts, armies, and sergs-bear a marked resemblance to the historical Africo-Egyptian type, and even to the modern Abyssinian.
Seventhly, the physical conformation of the pure-blooded Arab inhabitants of Yemen, Hadramaut, Oman, and the adjoining districts-the shape and size of the head, the slenderness of the lower limbs, the comparative scantiness of hair, and other particulars- point in an African rather than an Asiatic direction.
Eighthly, the general habits of the people,-given to sedentary rather than nomade occupations, fond of village life, of society, of dance and music; good cultivators of the soil, tolerate traders, moderate artisans, but averse to pastoral pursuits-have much more in common with the inhabitants of the African than with those of the western Asiatic continent.
Lastly, the extreme facility of marriage which exists in all classes of the southern Arabs with the African races; the fecundity of such unions; and the slightness or even absence of any caste feeling between the dusky “pure” Arab and the still darker native of modern Africa-conditions different from those obtaining almost everywhere else-may be regarded as pointing in the direction of a community of origin. Further indications are afforded both by local tradition and actual observation; but they are of a nature to be scarcely appreciable, except by those whom long familiarity has rendered intimate with the races in question; besides, the above are, for average criticism, sufficient.
Origin of Mustareb Race (The so-called white/caucasian Tartar Arabs)
It is harder to determine with precision the origin of the “adscititious” or “Mustareb” Arabs, and the circumstances under which they first peopled their half of the peninsula. Though in physical, mental, and lingual characteristics they offer too marked an affinity with the Arabs of the south to allow of any supposition except that of ultimate unity, so far as the stock is concerned; yet they present many and important divergences from them, and these divergences, whatever their nature, have all an Asiatic impress of their own.
Such are their pastoral tendencies and proneness to nomade life; such the peculiarities of their idiom, drawing near to the Hebrew; such the strong clannish feeling, joined with a constant resistance to anything like regal power or settled comprehensive organization ; such even the outward and physical type.
Time after time we may observe-in their history, their literature, their institutions or the absence of them, their past, their present-traits now Hebrew, now Syrian, now Chaldaean, now even Tatar; though the groundwork of the whole is undoubtedly identical with the Arab of the south.
The probability, faintly indicated by tradition, is that at an early, indeed an absolutely pre-historic period, this branch of the Arab race, emigrating eastward, passed into Asia- not like their congeners, at the southern, but at the northern or isthmal extremity of the Red Sea; them pursued their inland way to the plains of Mesopotamia and Chaldaea, and perhaps even further; and after a long sojourn in these lands, during which they acquired the modifications, mental and physical, which distinguish them from their southern and more unchanged brethren, returned westward to the land already partly occupied by their kinsmen.
This return would not be effected all at once, but by band after band, according to the pressure exercised on them by Iranian or Turanian neighbours, a fact witnessed to by many of the northern pre-Islamitic traditions, as found in Ibn-Atheer, Tabreezec, and others; while the well-known Ishmaelitic mythos, recorded alike in Hebrew and in Arab chronicles, probably points to the last batch of “adscititious” Arab immigrants, the special clan from which the family of Koreysh and the Prophet had origin.
Once established on the same soil, the two branches would naturally early manifest a tendency to unite, sufficient in time to produce a tolerable identity both of language and of usages; while the superinduced modifications of character and manners may well have originated the rivalry and even enmity between the Arabs of the north, or “Keysees,” and those of Yemen, which, under various forms, has never ceased down to our own time.
quote: The word Arab is of uncertain meaning; when and by whom this people (or these peoples) began to be called Arabs is unknown. The earliest sources where the term Arab appeared the first time are the Hebrew Scriptures of the post-exilic period, namely, during the rebuilding of the Temple under the Persian Empire (Nehemyah 2:19 - 5th century b.c.e.), and is applied in a vague manner probably to some Nabatean tribes. In the same period, also the Greek historian Herodotus mentions the Arabs, apparently in reference to the Yemenite tribes.
There are some earlier records, Akkadian and Assyrian sources that mention the "Aribi", a tribe of the desert that may be connected with the Ishmaelites, but there is not any certainty that such term has even any relationship with the word Arab. Indeed, the term "Arabia" is Greek, as well as Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc. and its probable etymology may be of Semitic origin: 1) 'arabah = steppe, wilderness; 2) 'ereb = mixture of peoples. Both terms are appropriate to them.
Wherever Arabs have conquered, the lands became deserted; the Arabian peninsula itself was not so dry, and Yemen had an irrigation network that allowed the land to be fruitful before Northern Arabs invaded and subdued the Sabean kingdom.
[...]
quote: Most of them were displaced by the Assyrians and emigrated, contributing to the formation of other peoples in India, Central Asia and Europe. Nevertheless, the Kurds are partially descendant of the Subarian/Hurrians, mixed with other elements, and therefore having right to claim a national home in the area - but their land was given to others that arrived many centuries after them: Turks and Arabs.
[...]
quote:The Arab scholars distinguish Arabians as descending from two different stocks: the "original" Arabs ('aribah), whose forefather was Qahtan -Yoqtan- and are the Yemenite group of tribes, and the "arabized" peoples of the north (musta'aribah), whose forefather is said to be Adnan, allegedly an Ishmaelite.
BTW, what happened to the website with all the little info squares (you post them a lot)? It doesn't work anymore... [/QB]
Don't know status but much of the info has been cross-posted to Reloaded anyhow and elsewhere. Disappearance of one site will not get rid of the data on the web. Unlike Wikipedia "stealth" edits designed to whitewash out hard scholarship, the data has multiple mirrors in different places. It ain't disappearing anytime soon.
Along with US sites, a site in Thailand for example is running several graphics like the one below. Usually with the graphics the all important scholarly quotes are in place, and people are using them on various discussion forums across the web. Its the quotes that back the graphics. None can claim this and that was made up. Thus a verifiable, independent database is in place, stretching across multiple sites and blogs without needing Wikipedia.
SPEAKING OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA...
"Macrohaplogroup M is particularly abundant and diverse in South and SOutheast Asia, reaching frequencies above 60% in some regions.. However it is practically absent in Western Asia.. In Africa, only one autochthonous basal branch of M, named M1, has been detected.. M1 is particulrly abundant in Ethiopia (20%).. In Arabia, M lineages account for 7% of the total and half of them belong to the M1 African clade.. As the majority of M1 haplotypes in Arabia belong to the East African M1a sub-clade, it seems that, likewise L lineages, the M1 presence in the Arabian penisula signals a predominant East African influence since the Neolithic onwards." -- Petraglia, M and Rose, J (2010). The Evolution of Human Populations in Arabia: Paleoenvironments, Prehistory.. Springer. p. 90
"High diversity of M1 among Cushitic populations of East Africa, and the absence of specific subclades present among them in Tigrais and in all western Asian populations, points to an ancient diversification of M1 in East Africa.." -Kivisild et al (2004)
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: Origin and Identity of the Arabs
quote:The Arab scholars distinguish Arabians as descending from two different stocks: the "original" Arabs ('aribah), whose forefather was Qahtan -Yoqtan- and are the Yemenite group of tribes, and the "arabized" peoples of the north (musta'aribah), whose forefather is said to be Adnan, allegedly an Ishmaelite.
posted
^ I did notice that, when looking for the source. However, it's well known and common knowledge what was cited.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic