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Author Topic: Alans and Sarmatians
Ebony Allen
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So I'm reading about these two tribes. I hear they were from Iran like the Persians. Anyone have any info on their racial background? I can't find much of anything anywhere on the Internet. It would be much appreciated.
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CelticWarrioress
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You would think you'd know the answer to that Ebony being a member of the Whitey hater crew and all. Why they were Black, everyone & every tribe in history were Black, White people just popped up out of nowhere & have no tribal names, no place they belong, no identities, no heritage, no history, nothing. All tribes everywhere were Black.
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Mike111
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Bitter, bitter:

True, you people only have a history worth talking about for only a few hundred years, but at least you NOW have a start.

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Mike111
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Ebony Allen, just ignore the part about them being Indo-Iranian. They were Central Asian Albinos, no more, no less.

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans


Alans map - NOTE WHERE THEY STARTED FROM!

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Ebony Allen
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That's strange though. I heard that they were the same race as the Persians.
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CelticWarrioress
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Why shouldn't I be Mike, after all it is your's & Ebony's Whitey hating, Kill Whitey, Black racist, Black supremacist ilk that are trying to deny my people of our history, our heritage, our identities, our homeland, our pride. It is yours and Ebony's Black racist ilk who are trying to write my people out of history & write yourselves in in our place.
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the lioness,
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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
So I'm reading about these two tribes. I hear they were from Iran like the Persians. Anyone have any info on their racial background? I can't find much of anything anywhere on the Internet. It would be much appreciated.

asking their racial background is racist
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Ebony Allen
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Why is it racist?
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Mike111
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^Hiding race is racist.
I allows the poor ignorant, like Doxie, to "IMAGINE" that White people are being referenced,
when in fact it is Black people who are being referenced.

Note the definition of Indo-Iranian and Aryan. Please read the comment section.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/Aryan

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CelticWarrioress
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ROTFLMBO, No Mike it allows ignorant Whitey hating Black racists like you & Ebony to imagine that it is Black people being referenced and not White people, so that you can try to steal our history.
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Mike111
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^Recovering one's own property is not theft.
The question is, how do we deal with the actual thief. I understand his motivations, the question is, can he be rehabilitated?

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Ish Gebor
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The Meaning and Concept of Arya


by Jayaram V


quote:
No one is sure how the word came into existence but after Hitler adapted the word to denote pure German race, the word became synonymous with racism. The truth is the world was used in ancient India to denote people of certain social background rather than a particular race.


It is used in Sanskrit both as a noun and as an adjective to denote a person, quality, character and social status rather than a race. When it is used as a noun to refer a person, it means a person of noble birth or character, master, lord, preceptor, teacher, owner, or any person belonging to the three upper castes. When it is used as an adjective to denote a quality or character, it means worthy, respectable, honorable, noble and high.


When it is used to denote social status it means a person of noble descent or some one who belongs to the three upper castes namely Brahmin, Kshatriya and Vaisya castes. When it is used to address a person it means revered or honored sir. According to Amarakosa "An arya comes from a noble family, is civilized, of good character and soft natured. (mahakula kulinarya sabhya sajjana sadhavah.)". The words ariya, ayya, ajja and aje are the distorted versions of the word Arya found in languages such as Pali and Prakriti. It has taken the form of "ji" in Hindi and "ayya" in Telugu, Tamil and Kannada.

Aryaputra was a proud epithet used in ancient India to denote a person's noble origin. Those who did not belong to the group of Aryans were called anaryas. The word was also used to denote uncivilized or objectionable behavior. Aryavarta was the land where the Aryans were supposed to have lived. The word "Iranian" is also a distorted form of the word Aryan and was used to denote all the people who spoke Iranian languages during the period when the Zoroastrian Yashts texts were composed. As time passed by the word Arya lost its ethnic or racial flavor in the Indian subcontinent and acquired the meaning of any person of noble origin. In the modern world with the rise of German power under Hitler, the word acquired a distinct ethnic and racial flavor with very unhappy consequences for those who were supposed to be of non-Aryan descent.


Arya Its Significance

Following is an excerpt from an article on the significance of arya by Sri Aurobindo 1
quote:



The question has been put from more than one point of view. To most Europeans the name [referring to the word 'arya' written in Devanagari characters on the cover of the philosophical monthly 'Arya'] figuring on our cover is likely to be a hieroglyph which attracts or repels according to their temperament. Indians know the word, but it has lost for them the significance which it bore to their forefathers. Western Philology has converted it into a racial term, an unknown ethnological quantity on which different speculations fix different values. Now, even among the philologists, some are beginning to recognize that the word in its original use expressed not a difference of race, but a difference of culture. For in the Veda the Aryan peoples are those who had accepted a particular type of self-culture, of inward and outward practice, of ideality, of aspiration. The Aryan gods were the supraphysical powers who assisted the mortal in his struggle towards the nature of the godhead. All the highest aspirations of the early human race, its noblest religious temper, its most idealistic varieties of thought are summed up in this single vocable.

In later times, the word Arya expressed a particular ethical and social ideal, an ideal of well-governed life, candour, courtesy, nobility, straight dealing, courage, gentleness, purity, humanity, compassion, protection of the weak, liberality, observance of social duty, eagerness of knowledge, respect for the wise and learned, the social accomplishments. It was the combined ideal of the Brahmana and the Kshatriya. Everything that departed from this ideal, everything that tended towards the ignoble, mean, obscure, rude, cruel or false, was termed un-Aryan or anarya (colloq. anari). There is no word in human speech that has a nobler history.

In the early days of comparative Philology, when the scholars sought in the history of words for the prehistoric history of peoples, it was supposed that the word Arya came from the root 'ar', to plough, and that the Vedic Aryans were so called when they separated from their kin in the north-west who despised the pursuits of agriculture and remained shepherds and hunters. This ingenious speculation has little or nothing to support it. But in a sense we may accept the derivation. Whoever cultivates the field that the Supreme Spirit has made for him, his earth of plenty within and without, does not leave it barren or allow it to run to seed, but labours to exact from it its full yield, is by that effort an Aryan.

If Arya were a purely racial term, a more probable derivation would be 'ar', meaning strength or valour, from 'ar' to fight, whence we have the name of the Greek war-god Ares, areios, brave or warlike, perhaps even arete, virtue, signifying, like the Latin virtus, first, physical strength and courage and then moral force and elevation. This sense of the word also we may accept. "We fight to win sublime Wisdom, therefore men call us warriors." For Wisdom implies the choice as well as the knowledge of that which is best, noblest, most luminous, most divine. Certainly, it means also the knowledge of all things and charity and reverence for all things, even the most apparently mean, ugly or dark, for the sake of the universal Deity who chooses to dwell equally in all. But, also, the law of right action is a choice, the preference of that which expresses the godhead to that which conceals it. And the choice entails a battle, a struggle. It is not easily made, it is not easily enforced.

Whoever makes that choice, whoever seeks to climb from level to level up the hill of the divine, fearing nothing, deterred by no retardation or defeat, shrinking from no vastness because it is too vast for his intelligence, no height because it is too high for his spirit, no greatness because it is too great for his force and courage, he is the Aryan, the divine fighter and victor, the noble man, aristos, best, the srestha of the Gita.

Intrinsically, in its most fundamental sense, Arya means an effort or an uprising and overcoming. The Aryan is he who strives and overcomes all outside him and within him that stands opposed to the human advance. Self-conquest is the first law of his nature. He overcomes earth and the body and does not consent like ordinary men to their dullness, inertia, dead routine and tamasic limitations. He overcomes life and its energies and refuses to be dominated by their hungers and cravings or enslaved by their rajasic passions. He overcomes the mind and its habits, he does not live in a shell of ignorance, inherited prejudices, customary ideas, pleasant opinions, but knows how to seek and choose, to be large and flexible in intelligence even as he is firm and strong in his will. For in everything he seeks truth, in everything right, in everything height and freedom.

Self-perfection is the aim of his self-conquest. Therefore, what he conquers he does not destroy, but ennobles and fulfils. He knows that the body, life and mind are given him in order to attain to something higher than they; therefore they must be transcended and overcome, their limitations denied, the absorption of their gratifications rejected. But he knows also that the Highest is something which is no nullity in the world, but increasingly expresses itself here, - a divine Will, Consciousness, Love, Beatitude which pours itself out, when found, through the terms of the lower life on the finder and on all in his environment that is capable of receiving it. Of that he is the servant, lover and seeker. When it is attained, he pours it forth in work, love, joy and knowledge upon mankind. For always the Aryan is a worker and warrior. He spares himself no labour of mind or body whether to seek the Highest or to serve it. He avoids no difficulty, he accepts no cessation from fatigue. Always he fights for the coming of that kingdom within himself and in the world.

The Aryan perfected is the Arhat. There is a transcendent Consciousness which surpasses the universe and of which all these worlds are only a side-issue and a by-play. To that consciousness he aspires and attains. There is a Consciousness which, being transcendent, is yet the universe and all that the universe contains. Into that consciousness he enlarges his limited ego; he becomes one with all beings and all inanimate objects in a single self-awareness, love, delight, all-embracing energy. There is a consciousness which, being both transcendental and universal, yet accepts the apparent limitations of individuality for work, for various standpoints of knowledge, for the play of the Lord with His creations; for the ego is there that it may finally convert itself into a free centre of the divine work and the divine play. That consciousness too he has sufficient love, joy and knowledge to accept; he is puissant enough to effect that conversion. To embrace individuality after transcending it is the last and divine sacrifice. The perfect Arhat is he who is able to live simultaneously in all these three apparent states of existence, elevate the lower into the higher, receive the higher into the lower, so that he may represent perfectly in the symbols of the world that with he is identified in all parts of his being, - the triple and triune Brahman.


http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/concepts/arya.asp


http://vedabase.net/a/arya


http://www.spokensanskrit.de/index.php?tinput=Arya&link=m

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Mike111
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^He,he,he,he:

Trust you to find the most complicated, long-winded, way of saying that the word means "Noble".

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Mike111
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^I hope everyone notices how in language, culture, territory, history: These two ASIAN people at the extreme opposite ends of the Racial/Color Spectrum, REVOLVE AROUND EACH OTHER!


Indo Aryan People

Chitral: Girl of the Kalash Tribe

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http://wilfriedgeens.com/2004/04/chitral-girl-of-the-kalash-tribe/

Others from Chitral, Pakistan.

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Dravidian Women:


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THEY ARE ETHNICALLY SISTERS!


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Ebony Allen
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Dravidians aren't Negroid though.
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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
Dravidians aren't Negroid though.

Neither is he:


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Neither is he:

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Neither is he:


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Neither is he:

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Neither is he:

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Neither is he:

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BUT!!!

THESE GUYS ARE VEERRRY "NEGROID":

Right???

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.

Tell me Ebony Allen, how many Black people do you know who look like the last two people?
Not many as far as I can tell.
By your reckoning there really aren't many Black people at all, is there?
Clearly just calling themselves Black is not enough, they must first clear it with you, just as Whites must clear it with Doxie.


YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO KNOW THIS:

Quoting from the Study titled: "AFRICAN GENETIC DIVERSITY - Implications for Human Demographic History, Modern Human Origins - by Michael C. Campbell and Sarah A. Tishkoff.

Quote: Africa is a region of considerable genetic, linguistic, cultural, and phenotypic diversity. There are more than 2000 distinct ethno-linguistic groups in Africa, speaking languages that constitute nearly a third of the world’s languages. Ancestral Africans have maintained a large and subdivided population structure and have experienced complex patterns of population expansions, contractions, migration, and admixture during their evolutionary history.

As the (2009) Tishkoff study proves: Africans are more genetically diverse than the rest of the world COMBINED! All of that means that within Africans, there exists the Genes and Phenotypes of ALL other Humans, the world over.


Being from sub-Sahara Africa is no excuse, neither is being from the U.S. South.

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Ebony Allen
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I'm not saying that blacks in Africa are not physically diverse. They are of course. The ancient Egyptians did not look like the "typical negro". South Indian blacks however are not the same race as blacks in Africa. Australoids are not Negroid either.
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CelticWarrioress
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Ebony, one thing you should learn about Mike is he only goes by skin color alone. Anyone with dark skin to him is Black, anyone with pale skin (including Albino Negros & Albino Asians) is White. Also to him anyone of a skin color that is in between they be a mulatto LOL.
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:

So I'm reading about these two tribes. I hear they were from Iran like the Persians. Anyone have any info on their racial background? I can't find much of anything anywhere on the Internet. It would be much appreciated.

The Sarmatians were a large ethnic group comprising many tribes with the Alans being one of their tribes. The Sarmatians were NOT from Iran but were an Iranic speaking people. Iranic speaking peoples inhabited a wide region that included not only the Iranian Plateau but much of Central Asia and the Russian steppes where the Sarmatians lived.

ancient range of Iranic peoples
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The Sarmatians used to live farther east as most of the Russian steppes and especially the Ukrainian area was inhabited by another Iranic people called the Scythians who gave their name to the entire steppes. But the Scythians were conquered and displaced by the Sarmatians.

Sarmatian territory
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As you can see from the map above the major tribe that split off and settled many areas was that of the Alani. Their modern descendants still live in the Ossetian province of Russia in the northern Caucasus.

I don't know how you couldn't find much info on the Sarmatians since there's a lot out there. One interesting fact about them is that Sarmatian women fought as warriors and that there was an old custom that a Sarmatian woman cannot marry until she has killed an enemy in battle. It's not certain whether the Sarmatians were matriarchal or mother-right simply because they had women warriors though in ancient Iran, the Persians and Medes did describe mother-right societies in their northern provinces who did have female warriors.

Sarmatian female warrior
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By the way, even though the Persians and Medes themselves were patriarchal their culture was more gender egalitarian and were never repressive toward women and they too had high ranking female soldiers and officials.

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
I'm not saying that blacks in Africa are not physically diverse. They are of course. The ancient Egyptians did not look like the "typical negro". South Indian blacks however are not the same race as blacks in Africa. Australoids are not Negroid either.

Except for a slight difference in hair type, what difference do YOU see?

They're both ugly as hell.

Australian
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African

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Australians 1906

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Congo 1904

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Except for a slight difference in hair type, what difference do YOU see?


I have said to you before - are you REALLY trying?

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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
I'm not saying that blacks in Africa are not physically diverse. They are of course. The ancient Egyptians did not look like the "typical negro". South Indian blacks however are not the same race as blacks in Africa. Australoids are not Negroid either.

I know that you don't understand, so I will spell it out for you.

The African diversity quotes were meant to clue you in that there is NO SUCH A THING as a "Typical Negro".
I was gently trying to clue you in that you had fallen prey to the Albino mans nonsense that "West Africans" and that general phenotype, are your "True Negroes".

Common sense really should have caused you to realize that leaves out much of Africa.

BTW - If hair type is your determinant, then what are these Solomon Islanders?


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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
The ancient Egyptians did not look like the "typical negro".

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Amenhotep III

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Keep going, soon or later, you will be right.

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mena7
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Daniel Laine in African Kings states the Xhosa ethnic group of South Africa thought the Russian were black people fighting the British to liberate them from British rule.

I don't think the Xhosa were wrong for thinking the Russian were black. They just remember the Russian when they were black Colchian and black Scythian. It looks like the Russian and other black European population bleach out by mixing with white Eurasian tribes.

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