posted
In many discussions the terms black and "negroid" (and similar words beginning on "n") are used as synonyms. That has made some debaters to believe that when the word black is used in for example in a historical text it means that the described people were "negroid"or "negroes". That in it´s turn is many times meant to be "Africans" or at least of African descent. Sometimes it also used to refer to peoples as Melanesians, Andamanese, so called "Negritos" in South East Asia, Australian aborigines and similar populations, who often are lumped together with Africans.
But the use of the word black varies, depending of culture and time. The use of black in contemporary USA is for example not the same as in many other cultures through different times. As an example in Europe the Romes have often been called black, as in the 1930s Swedish song "You black Gypsy", or in the Finnish word for the same people Mustalainen and the Estonian word Mustlane (both derived from the word must(a) which means "black").
In ancient and old Scandinavia a man could get the epitet "black" if he had enough dark hair or dark eyes, or if he had a somewhat darker skin tone than his neighbours. It did not mean he was a "negro".
So before jumping to the conclusion that the word "black" in any old travelogue or text means that the described people where "negroids" one must look at the historical and cultural context, which is often missed.
In some cases just having a somewhat dark skin could mean that a person or a people where called "black", even if they were totally unrelated to any "negroid" people".
In old times some European travelers could easily have called for example Native Americans like the ones in this picture for "black" or "dark in color, not unlike the Ethiopians". That does not mean they saw "negroid" peoples or Ethiopians, it just means they saw Native Americans who had somewhat dark skin, something that is a part of Native American variability.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
What are Dixon's figures on native European and Br. Isles cranial forensic negroids?
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Whole ethnic groups of Africa's blacks are not negro(id) so of course black =/= negro(id).
Black is an English word denoting a color. Negro is an English word borrowed from Spanish. Anthropology uses negro to describe an extreme. Notice English nor anthropology borrowed blanco.
What are Dixon's figures on native European and Br. Isles cranial forensic negroids?
"1550s, "member of a black-skinned race of Africa," from Spanish or Portuguese negro "black," from Latin nigrum (nominative niger) "black, dark, sable, dusky" (applied to the night sky, a storm, the complexion), figuratively "gloomy, unlucky, bad, wicked," according to de Vaan a word of unknown etymology; according to Watkins, perhaps from PIE *nekw-t- "night." The Latin word also was applied to the black peoples of Africa, but the usual terms were Aethiops and Afer." https://www.etymonline.com/word/negro
Native Amazonians
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
OK Kool let's laugh and learn, again (site:egyptsearch.com "name negro")
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Gee, I dunno?
If negro[id] means black why is there no - negro[id] hat - negro[id] horse - negro[id] crayon?
Negro in English means 'of the African slave pool'. A restrictive set of physical features was agreed upon by anthropology --a science birthed to rank humanity from the highest to the lowest with the European peoples at the top.
Etymology Online notes the word didn't enter English from the Luso-Espanol until the trans Atlantic slave trade was already underway.
Anthropology defined Africans like Fulani, Semitic speaking Ethiopians, hell sometimes even certain Bantu speakers, as NOT negroes.
Physical anthropology and ethnography would write "black but not negro" about several African groups "black but nothing of the negro about them".
Since it's obvious negroes are a small subset of Africa's brown colored people, negroid, meaning like a negro, was coined.
Sixty years ago Caribbes and AfrAms (including John Henrik Clarke) set up the Committee To Present The Truth About The Name "Negro" -- publishing, The Name Negro, It's Origin and Evil Use.
Dr Clarke is 2nd right from head of table.
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I recently began using American Negro as descriptor for the descendants of enslaved Africans in the USA who are a unique people bred by American Blancoes.
ADOS FBA etc have become political/ideological terms. American Negro, though distasteful, cuts across all that and identifies the miscegenated Africans of the United States of America among the extended family of all the African peoples.
posted
Why specially the U.S? The first Africans that came during Columbus voyage landed in the Caribbean and Latin America before they came to what would be the United States.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Wasn't Colon in Bahamas and U.S Virgins?
OK, guessing you mean why limit American Negro to the USA.
I do it because no other country in the 'western hemisphere' is named America. The United States of America is the only country using America as its official name. Passport nationality: American.
Each landing had its specific set of Africans and others who birthed their current native blacks. In general NW Euros and Northern Indians entered America's African mix.
Meso-America and southward have different Euro and Native peoples who blended with the Africans there.
I see no continuity between the black Luso-Espanols on Colon's ships that unites all the African descendants from Argentina clear to Canada in our times. Each region has its own history and name.
American Negro --to avoid confusion with all blacks from any and everywhere being pushed by white American politics and agreed to by the CBC, NAACP, et al.
African/Afro-Mexican
Afro-Columbian
Afro-Brazilian
Afro-Cuban
Jamaican
Bajan
and so on.
Anyway thats how I see it thru my eyes. All are encouraged to present their vision.
posted
Okay,I get now.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
What you waiting on Archie?
What are Dixon's figures on native European and Br. Isles cranial forensic negroids?
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: ... the terms black and "negroid" are used as synonyms.
.
In some cases just having a somewhat dark skin could mean that a person or a people where called "black", even if they were totally unrelated to any "negroid" people".
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: OK Kool let's laugh and learn, again (site:egyptsearch.com "name negro")
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Gee, I dunno?
If negro[id] means black why is there no - negro[id] hat - negro[id] horse - negro[id] crayon?
The word negro derived from Latin. In Spanish and Portuguese these are derivatives from Latin and English is a bastared language made up of Germanic and Latin influences.
posted
Depending on the language,I don't believe café is ever use to describe brown skin people. Also,you forget Indian red as a crayon color. There isn't a a Asian yellow or European white naming color scheme.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Correct, cafe requires au lait if a colour descriptor. thoom thoom thoom thoom THUMM THUMP thoom thoom thoom thoom THUMM THUMP Yankee romancers The gift they gave us was the Cafe Au Lait Oh oh oh Trouble I fear Oh oh Mulato
Corey? Mmm ... Tropical Gangsters Upstarts who claim that they're the Master Rayayayace Gonna be trouble I fear Oh oh oh Mulataaaaaaaaaaaaaa oh yeah!
Like creme y cocoa Cafe au lait yo
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Other peoples progress building on their past generaions.
Blx stagnate refusing to incorporate/accumulate their past generations' lived experiences.
I lived through the ID evolution in the United States of America from negro to black. Were they synonymous there woulda been no change, no James Brown proclaiming SAY IT LOUD I'M BLACK AND I'M PROUD in a day and age when a straight razor could be the answer to calling a negro/colored person black. Sepia, tan, ebony, bronze, and well OK, jet were the used colour words.
German, like English, separated the enslaved class people from things as witness neger (reserved for people) versus schwartz (for anything). Yes candies are things but "Nigger Babies", and such, are always in the shape of a person if not an actual rendering of an inner African phenotype.
And this crayon thing is really funny. Didn't work last time. Won't work now. Nowhere in the English speaking world have any of you ever asked for a negro crayon or colored anything negro? You know you haven't so why even front?
Here, since you won't accept Clarke or ben Jochannan[*], go on heed what Simon Sez but just remember not a tribe in Africa is self-named negro. Wanna know why?
quote:The Burundian student said he is receiving a very good education at the university, but that it is also very hard to be a foreigner in Turkey. “I feel bad when people say, ‘Look at the Negro,’ because Negro means slave. They can say ‘black’ instead,” he said.
quote:Fact Check: Black Crayola Crayon Labeled 'Negro' Is NOT Racist -- It's Spanish leadstories.com 2020-12-20
Cover picture for the article Is labeling a black crayon "negro" a racial reference and does Crayola have "some explaining to do"? No, that's not true: This is an example of a practice detected by Lead Stories: other languages use different words than English. The black crayon carries the labeling "negro" for Spanish-language users because that is the word for "black" in Spanish. It is not a racial reference, but a translation. The same crayon also is labeled "noir," which is the French word for black.
I mean dang you can see the same tri-lingual label on the brown cafe brun crayon for either English Spanish or Francophone speakers.
The Indian red crayon is a white racist affront objectifying a people as part of the natural world like white people name cars Touareg or Muranno but never Welshman or Swede or what have you.
Who even gave reading THE NAME NEGRO an equal chance? Fess up. Not a single solitary one of you that's who. Hands down, no confidence in the research and writing of a dedicated committee of Western Hemisphere independent minded blacks in Harlem sixty years ago fully exposing origin and vile use of negro --including all its Germanic family n-g-r variants-- outside Latin/Romance languages is tied to slavery of African people and no other use.
And then there's a reason euphemisms for black people arose in Luso-Espanol in place of nego/negro which continued reserved for things in those languages until recently because people are more than just things or commodities to be bought and sold.
Before the 1500s geography and/or ethnicity commonly described Africa's peoples[**]. Even in the next century neither Shakespeare nor the King James Bible has negroes (vetted by searching the digital edition of The Complete Shakespeare link wherein 'tis penned "Black men are pearls in beauteous ladies' eyes.").
[*]
[**] from John G Jackson's intro to Lane-Poole's Moors in Spain 1990 edition
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