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German linguist and specialist in African studies Bernd Heine invented the term "Maa Civilization" in 1982. From 1978 to 2004 Heine held the chair for African Studies at the University of Cologne, Germany.
quote: Being members of the Maa community, Camus and Elmolo share most of the cultural features characteristic of Maa civilization. These are especially an elaborate age-set system, both female and male circumcision, and a "cattle complex".
Bernd Heine SUGIA, Sprache und Geschichte in Afrika, Volumes 4-6 1982
Camus and Elmolo are Kenyan groups "Maa" is part of the word "Maasai" The Maa languages are related to the Lotuko languages spoken in South Sudan.
The term Maa Civilization ("Confederacy") without a doubt refers to Eastern Nilotics of Kenya/Sudan
As far as I know Bernd Heine has not continued using the term "Maa Civilization" It doesn't appear in his later books >>
African languages: An introduction. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2000
and
A linguistic geography of Africa. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2008
although he does mention the Maa language
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Clyde Winters wrote about a Maa Civilization in the Green Sahara in 20,000 BC. When the Sahara became a desert the inhabitant of the Maa Civilisation migrated to the Nile Valley, Mesopotamia and the Indus valley.
Another name for The Maa Confederation may have been the Zingh Empire of the Sahara that dated to 20,000 BC.
AFRICAN/BLACK RENAISSANCES SINCE 20,000 BC AND CREATING MORE RENAISSANCES
There have been many Black or African/Africoid renaissances since the earliest period of human history and culture. Homosapiens in the form of medium to tall, darkskinned smoothskinned (no body hair) and cloth-wearing (other materials) people have existed as early as 40,000 BC. However, humans migrated from Africa about 100,000 BC as fully human people. However an advanced culture also migrated from Africa about 60,000 to 50,000 Bc. One group migrated to various parts of Africa, particularly the Sahara and West Africa. Another group migrated to Southern Europe and the Middle East (Grimaldi Negroids), another went to India. More migrated to East Asia's southern regions and to Australia and Melanesia (see "Susu Economics," pub. by www.AuthorHouse.com ). The group that migrated to India were completely Black Negroids from the Eastern part of Africa. In fact people from Africa have been in India earlier than 70,000 BC, and most people in India today (at least 600 million people) who have Africoid features, curly to straight hair, brown to black skin are in fact related to African Blacks and are called Indo-Negroids ( see http://community.webtv.net/nubianemhttp://dalitstan.org/sudroid/bookshttp://dalitstan.org/books/sudroid That particular group of Africoids were the first people to move into Europe after the Ice Age began to diminish and Europe's ice sheets began to melt about 20,000 years ago. The Blacks of India who originally migrated from Africa continued to migrate into Central Asia and then Europe from the Indian subcontinent. However, before the Indian Blacks moved into Europe, an earlier group of Africans moved into Spain and into Armenia, Russia and Europe from the Egypt, Arabia region. Many sailed along the coastlines all the way to Melanesia and Australia beginning first with the Negritos then the taller Blacks similar in appearance to East Africans and South Indians. A very ancient group of Africoids arrived in Brazil about 30,000 BC according to Brazilian scientists who found Negroid skulls in the North-Eastern part of Brazil. There is also evidence that a prehistoric Negroid type existed in both Mexico and California and that this type existed as recently as the 1800's and may infact still be part of the African-American community, since many Blacks enslaved and sold to Southern plantations or captured by the Spanish invaders of California were Black 'Indians' and other Negroid 'Indians' like the Black Mojave, Jamassee, Gwale and Waschitaw (who won about 60,000 square acres of their previous empire of about one million square miles - read more about this "A History of the African-Olmecs: Black Civilizations of America from Prehistoric Times to the Present Era," published by www.AuthorHouse.com 1663 Liberty Drive, Suite 200, Bloomington, Indiana 47403 USA ). These Blacks of preColumbian origins were known to be living in the Americas before Columbus and were targeted for enslavement by the order of the 1450's that instructed the Europeans to 'Christianize and enslave descendents of Ham found in the new lands." Still, history before the dominance of the Europeans is one that is full of excitement and is now being researched and written about. This history includes many African or Black renaissances in Africa, the Americas, Europe, East Asia and India. AFRICAN/BLACK RENAISSANCES SINCE 20,000 BC: THE FIRST RENAISSANCE 1. Prehistoric Sahara; Zingh Empire. The world's earliest culture and civilization iis the "Zingh Empire." Unfortunately, the term "Zingh" is known by very few people and is used as a term by some Middle Eastern people to call Blacks or Africans. In like manner, the term "Kushim" coming from the great Kushite civilization is also used by people of Middle Eastern origins to refer to Blacks. Still, the Zingh Empire was the precursor to what became Egypt. It was located in the very spot where the Dafur Region is located today and was a core center of prehistoric civilization and culture. Cul tural inventions like mumification, red/black pottery, governance, education, fishing nets, the boomerang, bow and arrow, clothing, boats and many cult ural traits found as far as New Guinea, China and the Americas came out of the prehistoric Zingh Empire. Agricultural and Horticulture also began in the prehistoric Zingh Empire. The Zingh Empire was also the first to start building large towns and sophisticated irrigation, water wells, roads, canals and many of the aspects of civilization found later in ancient Egypt. The Zingh Empire was also the first to plant a standard (flag) from Mauritania to India in ancient times. Many of the lands that became Arab or Semitic lands later in history were part of the prehistoric Zingh Empire. In fact the prehistoric Zingh Empire was able to develop in a hot, humid environment conducive to the development of Black Negroid people, while the northern part of the earth was just coming out of the Ice Age in 15,000 BC. As the Sahara desert dried up, one major linguistic and cultural group belonging to the prehistoric Zingh Empire were the Manding-Kush, another were the Manding-Shi. Yet as early as about 30,000 BC, Africans from the Sahara were migrating to other regions of the earth. The Manding-Kush migrated into Central and Eastern Africa and Asia, while the Manding-Shi sailed to the Americas, Asia and the South Pacific. The language spoken by the ancient Africans of the Sahara was the parent language of languages such as Afro-Asiatic (Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Syriac, Ethiopic, ect.), Cushite, Ba-Ntu, ancient Egyptian, Dravidian, South Chinese, Australian Aboriginal, Melanesian, some American Indian languages like Chibchan and Olmec (Manding-Shi), (see, "A History of the African-Olmecs: Black Civilizations of America from Prehistoric Times to the Present Era," published by www.Authorhouse.com 2. The civilization of Ta-Seti. Ta-Seti was the great prehistoric civilization that was formed in Central Sudan about 10,000 BC or earlier. In fact in the year 2001, Time Magazine had an article on the discovery of fine glass work, pottery and artistic work dating to about 8000 BC. The article was led with the headline, "Nubian Civilization is World's Oldest," (see "Susu Economics," pub. by www.AuthorHouse.com ) The great Ta-Seti was situated in the land that became Nubia and was called Kush by its people, the present population of PURE BLACK SUDANESE IDENTICAL TO THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE NORTH, SOUTH AND CENTRAL PARTS OF THAT NATION AND PARTS OF THE NORTH. Ta-Seti (land of the Bow, because they were the world's most expert marksmen with bows and arrows). One of the world's most ancient observertories as found at Ta-Seti (in Sudan). Ta-Seti was the parent civilization that gave birth to Egypt when Africans from Ta-Seti moved into the middle part of Egypt and began to build there as early as 10,000 to 5,000 BC. The Delta region of Egypt was still swampy and covered with water. In fact, there were large areas of water very close to where the pyramids were built. A cultural renaissance occurred in Egypt and Ta-eti about 10,000 BC during the era of Leo, when a new enlightenment was occurring and the first steps in building began to take shape in TaSeti. Pyramids were not built but giant, circular monuments and star observation sites were being built. 3. The Unification of the two Lands (Khemet-Egypt and Ta-Seti) this was the original 'unified lands,' and stretched from the Delta to the Kenya border, (see, "The Destruction of Black Civilization," by J.A. Rogers. Both Sudan and Egypt were one great empire and their territory stretched as far as Central Sudan where the empire of the Fur stopped their expansion further west. To the East the Kushites spread as far as India. 4. Bak Tribes migrate to Mesopotamia all the Way to China. Groups of Dimunitive Negroes (shorter Black Africans) began to migrate from Central Africa into Ta-Seti, Egypt and Mesopotamia. They established culture there and then moved to India then to China. The most famous of the prehistoric migrants to the Loh River Valley of China, was the Bak called Hu Na Kunte who settled the Loh River Valley about 2800 BC, an early period in Chinese civilization, but a late period in African civilization. The Bak were credited for introducing many cultural traits from Africa and Mesopotamia to Southern China, including languages spoken today in Southern China. The Bak were and are related to the short, Negrito people who live in various parts of Cambodia, SE Asia, India and Melanesia today.
3. Indo-Negroid/Negrito civilizatiions begin in India. Harappa and Mohenjo-daro began by Indo-Negroids as early as 6000, BC. Harappan civilization is said to have been destroyed by flooding or invasions of Eurasian barbarians about 1700 BC (the same period that the Hyksos invaded Egypt). Indo-Negroid civilization spreads to Indo-China, Indonesia and SE Asia. (See pictures of Black aboriginal Indo-Negroids today http://community.webtv.net/nubianem "BLACK HISTORY CHART" also see http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/runoko.html The Indo-Negroids of India (today's Blacks of South India/South Asia were called 'Eastern Ethiopians' by the Greeks. Genetic tests taken recently (Genome Project) shows that India's Indo-Negroid population (most Dalits, most Dravidians, Black Tribals, Negritos, other Black/Negroid people are identical to Africans in many ways and the closest related genetically to any other group of people on earth. The Black/Negro gene is so strong that even in parts of India where the barbarian Eurasians committed genocide on the men and women were made to carry mixed children, THE DESCENDENTS OF THESE MIXED PEOPLE ARE STILL GENETICALLY DOMINATED BY THE FEMALE ANCESTORS NEGRO GENES. Yet, in today's India, Black consciousness and pride has to be made into a strong religion among India's pure Black and black-brown people who are rejected and treated worse than animals. Anyone who wants to see the way Black skinned Indians are treated need to watch some Bollywood movies. 4. The War with the Anu - 5000 BC -10,000 BC. The Anu, a very powerful Black nation that existed in Egypt and the Sahara about prehistory BC to about 5000 BC was led by great kings called and noblemen such as Tera Neter (see Egypt Revisited, by Ivan Van Sertima, Transaction Publishers, New Bruinswick, New Jersey). The Anu were a powerful kingdom but their rivals were the Khemites (Black Egypt before the Semite mixing). Both of these prehistoric Black African kingdoms were at war for a very long time. Eventually, the Egyptians became dominant in the Region. The Anu were spread from Egypt to the Central Sahara. However, in the Sudan, another powerful kingdom called the Fur (of Dafur) was a thriving and powerful empire that was threatened by the Egyptians as early as 5000 BC. Both the Anu and the Fur had powerful armies and both were early creators of civilization in the Sahara. According to Egyptian texts, the Anu lost some wars to the Egyptian and many of the Anu migrated to Eastern Africa, Mesopitamia, India, China and Japan. Some went as far as Australia. Traces of the Anu people still remain today. In Africa they are called Anuak. The Ainu of Japan may have originally been Black Anu before they became mixed with the Mongol race. People called Anu also live in Australia and shows that migrations to Australia and Melanesia continued as recently as 5000 BC and (according to the Fijian Representative in Los Angeles, I. Raikadroka - Some Fijians ancestors came from Tanganyika about 2000 BC). The Anu were among some of the last groups of Blacks to migrate from Africa to the far corners of Asia. 5. Emperor Meci sails in eight ships from the Sahara/West Africa to Mexico about 3113 B.C. Calendar is started, Olmecs (Manding-Shi) and Mexico Indians began trade and culture in VeraCruz region. Meci was one of the great figues of prehhistoric African civilization and was the emperor of the ancient West African Nok-Wagadu region. Emperor Meci or "Ci" is said by some to be the legendary "Quetzalcoatl" mentioned by the Aztecs. However, it is believed that Meci may have entered Mexico about 3113 B.C., the time that an African solar calendar identical to that used in Africa's Egypt, Kush and West Africa was introduced to Mexico. See www.cocoalounge.org 6. Bak Tribes begin renaissance in South China. The Bak Tribes began to migrate into the Middle East and into Mesopotamia about 10,000 BC. The Bak are said to have been the original Sumerians, Elamites and other short-statured, dimunitive Negroids of Mesopotamia who created the original Mesopotamian civilizations. About 2800 B.C., one well-known and very famous leader of the Bak Tribes by the name of Hu Nakunte (Kudur Nakunte is also the name of an ancient Mesopotamian king). Hu Nakunte settled on the Loh River Valley in China and from there he established a kingdom. That kingdom was just one of the many ancient Black kingdoms found in Southern China, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philipines, where remnants of Negroid people still remain (including Negro genes, faces and features in some of the hundres of millions of Chinese in Southern China who speak Cantonese, a tonal language similar in sound to some African languages spoken in Africa today) According to Clyde Winters, et al, (African Presence in Early Asia," also see "Susu Economics," some poetry "Americans and their Idols," pub. by www.infinitypublishers.comwww.buybookssontheweb.com ), China's ancient Blacks introduced many cultural gifts into china by way of India and Mesopotamia. The Negrois of China eventually became absorbed into the very dominant Mongol gene pool, however, since Negro genes are dominant, a person of Southern Chinese origins whose ancestors were prehistoric Negroids from Africa or Mesopotamia may be shocked to find out that there are indeed pure Blacks in Africa with features indentical to some Southern Chinese, except for the straight hair and light skin (except the Kong-San who are lightskinned). The ancient Blacks of Southern China included Blacks who had been there as early as 50,000 BC (see "Chinese say First Chinese Came from Africa www.raceandhistory.com ) Read also "Susu Economics: The History of Pan-African Trade, Commerce, Money and Wealth," published by www.AuthorHouse.com 1663 Liberty Drive, Suite 200, Bloomington, Indiana 47403 USA. The ancient Blaks of China and the Blacks of Chenla, Angor, Funan initiated a number of cultural renaissances in S.E. Asia and Southern China that began as early as 2800 B.C. Yet, today, their names, their cultures, their contributions have all been wiped out. Was it not for the great habit of Africans/Blacks of taking records, rejecting intermarriage as a scheme of genocide and diseasing, and maintaining Black culture at all costs, the history of Blacks in SE Asia would not have been known. PREHISTORIC COASTAL EAST AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS African cultures along the coast of East Africa were advanced earlier than 1500. Evidence shows that most Africans along the coast who later became known as Swahili were trading in gold, electrum, red ocre, animals and other products to the Egyptians about 1500 BC. The earliest cities were also built in the region by Africans at that early period. Many were collections of villages and towns spread along the coast. Later on in history, these cities became more advanced. The people of the region were called Puntites. 7. EIGHTEENTH DYNASTY. The Eightenth Dynasty of Egypt was one of the greatest ever. It was a time when the original people of Egypt, the Africans whose orientation was toward the South (Nubia Kush, Ta-Seti) ruled Egypt and improved on its culture and glory. The Eighteenth Dynasty began about the 1567's BC and lasted to about 1320 BC. Another Renaissance occurred in Egypt when the Kushites ruled Egypt from about 665 to 525 BC. The Kushite Dynasty rebuilt all the deterioriating monuments of Egypt, revived the ancient culture and religion and protected Egypt. The Assyrians invaded Egypt and pushed the Nubians into Nubia. This push into Egypt was done after the Nubians tried to help save the Jews of Isreal from the Assyrians. 8. Nok Wagadu, Nago-Mina, Yoruba, Igbo-Ikwu civilizations of West Africa. About 3000 B.C. to about 1000 AD, West Africa went through a strong cultural and social development. As early as 3000 BC, Africans who previously lived in the Sahara began to build strong cultures in the forest regions of West Africa. Iron was being used as early as 2800 BC and due to the widespread use of iron, West Africa had no Bronze Age. Bronze was used mainly to make weapons and utencils. The early Africans of West Africa built great cities in the region out of stone and clay. They sailed the seas and some reached the Americas and other went as far as Ireland. They held the first recorded evidence of a KWANZAA FESTIVAL (HARVEST FESTIVAL) IN WEST AFRICA ABOUT 450 BC when Hanno sailed the region looking for gold. The West Africans were very wealthy in gold and other resources. 9. Ancient Ethiopia before Axum was ruled by Kushite kings from Kush. The most ancient king of Ethiopia is said to be Arwe. Axumites began to arrive in Ethiopia about 200 BC. They initiated a renaissance in Ethiopia. A Christian renaissance occurred in Ethiopia from about 400 AD to 1500 AD. During that period great churches and monastaries were built in Ethiopia and Lilibela and Gondar became Ethiopia's important religious cities. Ethiopia had previously had (and still has) a Black Ethiopian Jewish population of people who are original Jews (THEY ARE NOT CONVERTS TO JUDAISM, BUT HAVE ALWAYS BEEN JEWS FROM SOLOMON'S TIME). 10. Nubian Renaissance 500 BC to 350 AD. A number of great kingdoms existed in Sudan after the Kushites left Egypt. From about 500 BC to 300 AD, Kush was one of the wealthiest and most powerful kingdoms on earth. The Kushites were master manufacturers of weapons and tools from iron. They built over 100 pyramids along the upper Nile and traded as far as China from the Nubian port of Myus Homus. About 400 A.D., the Nubians established Christian Coptic churches in Nubia. These churches were wonderful places of worship with great masterpieces of architecture and vivid paintings done in the Nubian Style. The Nubians also improved on their old alphabet and used a more phonetic type rather than the previous Egyptian style. (See "Susu Economics," published by www.AuthorHouse.com ) ZIMBABWE RENAISSANCE Zimbabwe is one of Africa's great ancient civilizations. Zimbabwe began to establish itself as a major culture and region of trade as early as 3000 B.C. The Zimbabweans were mainly of Bantu stock and practiced cattle keeping and agriculture. In fact, Zimbabweans were probably known by the ancient Egyptians and Chinese. Building in Zimbabwe, especially the stone cities dotting an area the size of France seem to have been built hundreds of years before Christ to as recently as the tenth century AD. By about 500 BC, the Zimbabweans were engaged in trade with parts of Asia and Yemen. As early as 1000 BC, Blacks called Lemvo who were of the Jewish faith migrated to Zimbabwe from the Ethiopian Empire. Zimbabwe was also one of the world's greatest producers of rice, cloth, iron utencils, golden adornments. Zimbabwe's renaissance may have taken place from as early as 300 BC and continued to about 1200 AD. Much of Zimbabwe's great art, its gold work, its great, gigantic buildings have been plundered or almost destroyed. However, the ancient buildings built in Zimbabwe are so widespread and so huge that most still exist. THE GREAT WEST AFRICAN RENAISSANCES 400 BC TO 1600 AD Three of the world's greatest and wealthiest kingdoms and empires existed in West Africa. They were Ghana 400 BC to 1200 AD, Mali, 1200 AD to 1500, Songhai 1500 AD to 1700 AD. The ancient people of Ghana and Mali were master builders as well as masters of boat building and trading. People identical in features to Ghanians entered Mexico about 3113 b.c. Groups of 'dwarves' who were shamen and practiced a religion similar to Orisha/Shango established their religion in Mexico among the Olmecs. Ghana was a magnificent civilization and established a great capital on the banks of the Niger. Many Ghana people migrated to the America in ancient times and introduced their culture and alphabets to part of South America, Mexico and the US. One important king who took this journy was Abu Bakari about the 1300's AD. BLACK MOORISH CIVILIZATION AND RENAISSANCE The Black African Moors (not Arabs, but Negroes) were Africans who lived in the region from Nigeria in the South to Morocco in the North. These Black Moors beloned to a number of confederations who were Black African ethnic groups who had converted to Islam. Many belonged to the Almohad sect while others were Africans who were more settled and wanted to establish their culture in the region. The Black Moors were not "Arabs" as some people like to claim. They were Black Negro Africans and Islam was not introduced into West Africa by Arabs but by Ulamas or teachers invited to the region from Egypt, by the African kings of West Africa. The Black Moors built great civilizations and cultures in the Maghrebi region long before the Arabs arrived. In fact, Numidian civilization existed in the region of the Maghrebi and before that, the Black Canaanites/Carthaginians dominated the region. The Black Moors invaded Spain about 711 A.D. and liberated it from the German occupiers called the Goths. The Africans built a great civilization in Spain. About 1000 AD, the white Semitic Arabs invaded Spain. The Black Moors and Semitic Arabs fought for control of Spain for many years. The kingdoms of Ghana, Mali and Songhai, along with Moorish Spain were the last great civilizations on earth to represent the ancient renaissances that began as early as 20,000 BC with the planting of the red, black and green flag of the Zingh Empire all over Africa and into the Middle East and as far as India by the great Black African God-King and empire builder called Tyru Afrik. (More great references, see "A History of Education Book II," published by www.Xlibris.com 436 Walnut Street, Philadelphia, PA 19106 USA also see "Susu Economics," published by www.AuthorHouse.com 1(800)839-8640 1(812)339-6000 http://community.webtv.net/nubianem also see, "A History of the African-Olmecs," pub. by www.AuthorHouse.com essay by http://community.webtv.net/pabarton nubianem@webtv.net
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All these is what i call pseudo historical bullshit.And Clyde is the originator of most of these pseudo history.The anachronisms in his works is just too much.I am sorry but somebody has to say it,that is why white people love him,so that they can go back and back and say "hey,look at these mythical mambo jambo PHD afrocentric historians are writing.White people love to quote his work as examples of afrocentric pseudo history". 1)Negritos are more genetically related to asiatics and indo-europeans.Just because they are dark skinned with negroid features e.g flat wide nose,thick lips,curly hair does not mean they are related to africans 2)R1b did not originate in africa,clyde needs to stop saying that,just because fula,mande and some berbers have it,does not indicate an african origin. 3)The Olmecs are not related to mandika people,Olmecs are negritos from the Xia chinese dynasty that migrated to the americas escaping mongol expansions.They most likely belonged to Y Haplogroup C. 4)Africans in america before columbas,maybe..because some native americans circumcised and were dark skinned.e.g cherookee.BUT what does their DNA indicate? 5)No clyde,neanderthals were not black people neither were they dark skinned,clyde you cannot not test melanin levels on skulls.And if they are caucasian ancestors,then they are responsible for the low melanin levels in caucasians,because y adam(AOO) and mitochondrial eve are melanated blacks. 6)Afrocentrics should stop ignoring the historicity of the bible because it contains documented history of Africa and world migrations.Eurocentrics hate the bible,because it is a documented proof of black libya,egypt,kush,accad,sumer,harrapan and canaan. Clyde dont throw stones,when you live in a glass house.
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Ledama you are pathetic. You make up history and dare claim that I make pseudo history based on what you have read on the WWW. But you, like the Euronuts can not show how any of my work is groundless. The mere fact you use the WWW authors to lable my work shows how white supremacy continues to blind you to the truths of history.
Stop being jealous that it was Afro-Americans with PhD's: DuBois, Carter G. Woodson,myself and others who build up the Afrocentric research tradition. Knowledge is cumulative. In other words we build new knowledge on the research of the giants in our field.
To say my work is pseudo science shows your lack of knowledge about DuBois' work. My research like the research of most 20th Century Afrocentrist is based on the work of DuBois, i.e., the Negro and The World and Africa. Even Diop made it clear that DuBois was his inspiration.
Ledama admit you have made up the identities of the Black people who founded the Hamite civilizations mentioned in Genesis 10 , of the Bible. Reading these names you give the Children of Ham , make it clear you have no recognition of the fact that what you are writing about has already been discussed formerly by Afrocentric scholars, and your job should be confirming or disconfirming what these giants wrote, instead of creating more mumbo jumbo.
Afrocentrism, is a mature social science that was founded by Afro-Americans almost 200 years ago. These men and women provided scholarship based on contemporary archaeological and historical research the African/Black origination of civilization throughout the world. These Afro-American scholars, mostly trained at Harvard University (one of the few Universities that admitted Blacks in the 19th Century) provide the scientific basis the global role played by African people in civilizing the world.
Afrocentrism and the africalogical study of ancient Black civilizations was began by Afro-Americans.
The foundation of any mature science is its articulation in an authoritive text (Kuhn, 1996, 136). The africalogical textbooks published by Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) provided the vocabulary themes for further afrocentric social science research.
The pedagogy for ancient africalogical research was well established by the end of the 19th century by African American researchers well versed in the classical languages and knowledge of Greek and Latin. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) in the Freedom Journal, were the first African Americans to discuss and explain the "Ancient Model" of history.
These afrocentric social scientists used the classics to prove that the Blacks founded civilization in Egypt, Ethiopia, Babylon and Ninevah. Cornish and Russwurm (1827) made it clear that archaeological research supported the classical, or "Ancient Model" of history.
Edward Blyden (1869) also used classical sources to discuss the ancient history of African people. In his work he not only discussed the evidence for Blacks in West Asia and Egypt, he also discussed the role of Blacks in ancient America (Blyden, 1869, 78).
By 1883, africalogical researchers began to publish book on African American history. G.W. Williams (1883) wrote the first textbook on African American history. In the History of the Negro Race in America, Dr. Williams provided the schema for all future africalogical history text.
Dr. Williams (1883) confirmed the classical traditions for Blacks founding civilization in both Africa (Egypt, Ethiopia) and West Asia. In addition, to confirming the "Ancient Model" of history, Dr. Williams (1883) also mentioned the presence of Blacks in Indo-China and the Malay Peninsula. Dr. Williams was trained at Howard.
A decade later R.L. Perry (1893) also presented evidence to confirm the classical traditions of Blacks founding Egypt, Greece and the Mesopotamian civilization. He also provided empirical evidence for the role of Blacks in Phoenicia, thus increasing the scope of the ASAH paradigms.
Pauline E. Hopkins (1905) added further articulation of the ASAH paradigms of the application of these paradigms in understanding the role of Blacks in West Asia and Africa. Hopkins (1905) provided further confirmation of the role of Blacks in Southeast Asia, and expanded the scope of africalogical research to China (1905).
This review of the 19th century africalogical social scientific research indicate confirmation of the "Ancient Model" for the early history of Blacks. We also see a movement away from self-published africalogical research, and publication of research, and the publication of research articles on afrocentric themes, to the publication of textbooks.
It was in these books that the paradigms associated with the "Ancient Model" and ASAH were confirmed, and given reliability by empirical research. It was these texts which provided the pedagogic vehicles for the perpetuation of the africalogical normal social science.
The afrocentric textbooks of Hopkins (1905), Perry (1893) and Williams (1883) proved the reliability and validity of the ASAH paradigms. The discussion in these text of contemporary scientific research findings proving the existence of ancient civilizations in Egypt, Nubia-Sudan (Kush), Mesopotamia, Palestine and North Africa lent congruency to the classical literature which pointed to the existence of these civilizations and these African origins ( i.e., the children of Ham= Khem =Kush?).
The authors of the africalogical textbooks reported the latest archaeological and anthropological findings. The archaeological findings reported in these textbooks added precision to their analysis of the classical and Old Testament literature. This along with the discovery of artifacts on the ancient sites depicting Black\African people proved that the classical and Old Testament literature, as opposed to the "Aryan Model", objectively identified the Black\African role in ancient history. And finally, these textbooks confirmed that any examination of references in the classical literature to Blacks in Egypt, Kush, Mesopotamia and Greece\Crete exhibited constancy to the evidence recovered from archaeological excavations in the Middle East and the Aegean. They in turn disconfirmed the "Aryan Model", which proved to be a falsification of the authentic history of Blacks in early times.
The creation of africalogical textbooks provided us with a number of facts revealing the nature of the afrocentric ancient history paradigms. They include a discussion of:
1) the artifacts depicting Blacks found at ancient sites
recovered through archaeological excavation;
2) the confirmation of the validity of the classical and Old
Testament references to Blacks as founders of civilization in Africa and Asia;
3) the presence of isolated pockets of Blacks existing outside Africa; and
4) that the contemporary Arab people in modern Egypt are not the descendants of the ancient Egyptians.
The early africalogical textbooks also outlined the africalogical themes research should endeavor to study. A result, of the data collected by the africalogical ancient history research pioneers led to the development of three facts by the end of the 19th century, which needed to be solved by the afrocentric paradigms: (1) What is the exact relationship of ancient Egypt, to Blacks in other parts of Africa;
(2) How and when did Blacks settle America, Asia and Europe;
(3) What are the contributions of the Blacks to the rise, and cultural expression ancient Black\African civilizations;
(4) Did Africans settle parts of America in ancient times.
As you can see the structure of Afrocentrism were made long before Boas and the beginning of the 20th Century.In fact , I would not be surprised if Boas learned what he talked about from the early Afrocentric researchers discussed in this post.
As you can see Afro-Americans have be writing about the Global history of ancient Black civilizations for almost 200 years. It was Afro-Americans who first mentioned the African civilizations of West Africa and the Black roots of Egypt. These Afro-Americans made Africa a historical part of the world.
Afro-American scholars not only highlighted African history they also discussed the African/Black civilizations developed by African people outside Africa over a hundred years before Bernal and Boas.
Your history of what you call "negrocentric" or Black Studies is all wrong. It was DuBois who founded Black/Negro Studies, especially Afro-American studies given his work on the slave trade and sociological and historical studies of Afro-Americans. He mentions in the World and Africa about the Jews and other Europeans who were attempting to take over the field.
Hansberry
There is no one who can deny the fact that Leo Hansberry founded African studies in the U.S., not the Jews.Hansberry was a professor at Howard University.
Some ignorant people believe that Bernal's, Black Athena, is the core text for Black studies. But , Bernal did not initiate any second wave of "negro/Blackcentric" study for ancient Egyptian civilization. Credit for this social science push is none other than Chiek Diop, who makes it clear that he was influenced by DuBois.In fact, Black Athena, promotes the idea that Semites founded Egyptian civilization.
DuBois Africalogical study of ancient history There are four philosophical schools associated with the afrocentric study of ancient history: perennialist, essentialist, existentialist, and progressivist. The taxonomic system we use to classify the various afrocentric philosophical positions and related values affecting afrocentrism are modeled on philo-sophical developments associated with education.
We can use taxonomies of educational philosophies to discuss any proposed afrocentric curriculum because both education and philosophy are "cultural experiences". Moreover, because afrocentrism seeks to explain and delineate the story of African people, it clearly is a field of study which encompasses all aspects of the culture of Black and African people (Asante, 1990, 1991; Winters, 1994).
The perennialist afrocentrists study the great works. The adherents of this school include Martin Delaney (1978), Cornish and Russwurm (1827), Frederick Douglas (1966), and Edward Blyden (1869). These Afrocentrists see knowledge as truth, which is eternal.
The essentialist afrocentric school emphasize in their writing data that is well established through scientific research. Afrocentrists of this philosophical school include W. E. B. DuBois (1965, 1970), John Jackson (1974), C.A. Winters (1985, 1989, 1991, 1994) and Leo Hansberry (1981). They believe that as new research is published, it should be analyzed to discover how it relates to the ancient history of African and Black people to enrich our understanding of the past.
The existentialist afrocentrists believe that africalogical studies should thrive to teach African people to know more about themselves so we can have a better world. The afrocentric existentialists include J.A. Rogers, Anta Diop (1974, 1991), G.M. James (1954), Marcus Garvey (1966) and A.A. Schomburg (1979).
Research is the foundation of good science, or knowing in general. There are four methods of 1) Method of tenacity (one holds firmly to the truth, because "they know it" to be true); 2) method of authority (the method of established belief, i.e., the Bible or the "experts" says it, it is so); 3) method of intuition (the method where a proposition agrees with reason, but not necessarily with experience); and 4) the method of science (the method of attaining knowledge which calls for self-correction). To explain African origin of the Egyptians, I use the scientific method which calls for hypothesis testing, not only supported by experimentation, but also that of alternative plausible hypotheses that, may place doubt on the original hypothesis.
The aim of science is theory construction (F.N. Kirlinger, Foundations of behavior research, (1986) pp.6-10; R. Braithwaite, Scientific explanation, (1955) pp.1-10). A theory is a set of interrelated constructs, propositions and definitions, that provide a systematic understanding of phenomena by outlining relations among a group of variables that explain and predict phenomena.
Scientific inquiry involves issues of theory construction, control and experimentation. Scientific knowledge must rest on testing, rather than mere induction which can be defined as inferences of laws and generalizations, derived from observation. This falsity of logical possibility is evident in the rejection of the African origin of the Egyptians. These writers base their theories solely on observation--nonscientific knowledge is not science. Karl Popper in The Logic of Scientific Discovery, rejects this form of logical validity based solely on inference and conjecture (pp. 33-65). Popper maintains that confirmation in science, is arrived at through falsification.
Therefore to confirm a theory in science one test the theory through rigorous attempts at falsification. In falsification the researcher uses cultural, linguistic, anthropological and historical knowledge to invalidate a proposed theory. If a theory can not be falsified through yes of the variables associated with the theory it is confirmed. It can only be disconfirmed when new generalizations associated with the original theory fail to survive attempts at falsification.
In short, science centers on conjecture and refutation. Given 200 years of research in Afrocentrism, our job is to confirm the research into the role of Blacks in ancient history uncovered by the giants in Afrocentric Social Sciences discussed above.
Dr. Winters has written extensively on the ancient history of the African diaspora. He has numerous sites on the web were explains the ancient history of African people. His major work is Afrocentrism: Myth or Science . In Afrocentrism: Myth or Science Dr. Winters provides a detailed discussion of how to study Afrocentrism and provides an intimate and detailed study of the ancient Black civilizations outside Africa in Europe, Asia and the Americas.
The final afrocentric philosophical school is the progressivist. The afrocentric school of progressivism believes that we should have knowledge of the process and futuristic focus on afrocentric studies. The major exponent of this frame of reference is Molefi K. Asante (1991).
In general Diop (1974, 1991) caused an africalogical social scientific revolution because he was able to prove that Egypt was the archetypical civilization for many West Africans. This was an important discovery because almost all of the slaves that were sold in the United States had originally came from West Africa. Verification of the Egyptian origin of West Africans provided African Americans with relationship to the ancient Egyptians. Moreover, Diop's use of linguistics, and anthropological evidence to confirm the African origin of Egypt eliminated the need for africalogical researchers to use the classical writers to prove the African origin of Egypt (Diop, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1986, 1987, 1988). This finding by Diop has led africalogical researchers to seek a better understanding of African philosophy through an interpretation of Egyptian philosophy.
Moreover, africalogical researchers like Dr.Winters, have also began the reconstruction of the Paleo-African language used by Blacks in prehistoric times (Anselin, 1982, 1982b, 1989; Winters, 1994) so that we will know more about the culture and civilization of the Proto-Africans. Dr. Winters in Before Egypt: The Maa Confederation, Africa's First Civilization, is about the Maa civilization. The Maa civilization existed in the Saharan highlands. The people of Maa founded many civilizations including Egypt, and Sumer.
Dr, Winters in Egyptian Language, Niger-Congo Speakers and the Mountains of the Moon , provides the linguistic evidence that confirms the hypothesis of Cheikh Anta Diop, L. Homburger, M. Delafosse that the Niger-Congo speakers and Egyptians had a common origin. In this book we argue that many Egytians living in the 22 sepats of Upper Egypt spoke Niger-Congo languages including the Bantu Fulani and Mande languages.
Egyptian Languages , provides the genetic, linguistic and archaeological evidence relating to the diverse Niger-Congo speakers who made up segments of the Egyptian nation. Readers of this book will learn that the Niger-Congo speakers originated in the Highland regions of Middle Africa: the Mountains of the Moon ; and that this population which later settled Upper Egypt, formerly belonged to the Ounanian culture.
Clyde Winters
The last major confirmation of the ASAH paradigms was made by Clyde Ahmad Winters (1977, 1979, 1981, 1983a, 1983c, 1983d, 1984, 1985) when he expanded our understanding of the role of Blacks\Africans in Indo-China, India and China; and the ancient literacy of Blacks (1979, 1983d, 1985c, 1986b). Dr. Winters has an extensive background in teaching Social Studies. In the 1990’s Dr. Winters help write the Social Science standards for the Chicago Public Schools. In recent years he has been developing lesson plans for Common Core State Standards in Social Science.
Using linguistic, anthropological and historical evidence, Dr. Winters proved that the earliest cultures of China and Indo-China were founded by Blacks from West Africa and modern Ethiopia (Winters, 1979, 1983d, 1985c, 1986b). In support of this history Dr. Winters has posted over 70 videos on YouTube.
Winters also made it clear that the earliest Japanese were Blacks and that Japanese is related to African languages (Winters, 1979, 1981, 1983a, 1983c, 1984). In addition he was able to prove that the founders of Xia and Shang were of African and Dravidian origin (1983c,1985c).
Using the findings of Wiener in regards to the writing of the Olmecs Winters discovered that the Blacks from West Africa left numerous inscriptions written in the Manding language (Winters, 1977, 1979, 1983a, 1985b) . Winters later discovered that due to the cognition between the Mande writing and ancient scripts used by the Minoans and Indus Valley he could read the Indus Valley Writing and the Linear A inscriptions (1985b).
• The study of Africans in ancient America has been fruitful. Dr. Leo Wiener, in Africa and the Discovery of America was the first to recognize that the ancient civilizations of Mexico had been incluenced by Africans. He was especially sure that the Mande speaking people influenced the religion and civilization of the Aztec and Maya people; and that the writing on the Tuxtla statuette was written in the Mande writing system.
Later Ivan van Sertima wrote an important book which highlighted the influence of Africans in Mexico. In They Came before Columbus, van Sertima discussed the African influence on the Olmec civilization, and the discovery of America by Abubakari, a ruler of the Mali empire in the 1300's A.D. Dr. Winters expands the discussion of Abubakari's voyage to America by discusing the colonies they left in North America and Brazil in his book African Empires in Ancient America.
Dr. Clyde Winters has written extensively on the African origins of the Olmec. He deciphered the Olmec language and since then he has published numerous websites where he discussed the Olmec Kings and their civilization. The most important work of Dr. Winters is Atlantis in Mexico, in this book Dr. Winters provides a detailed account of the migration of the Mande speaking people from Africa to the Americas. He explains that they called themselves Xi (Shi) or Si people and provides an informative discussion of the Mexican traditions regarding the expansion of the Olmec from the Gulf Coast, to the Pacific coast of Mexico.
Atlantis in Mexico will provide any researchers with a wealth of knowledge to understand the African origin of the Olmec. And the contributions of the Xi to the civilizations of Mexico.
Dr. Winters has expanded knowledge about the other Blacks who established colonies in the Americas before Europeans. In African Empires Ancient America,Dr. Winters discussed the Axumite, Mound Builders and other ancient Black Americans.
Proficiency in a language other than English, helped africalogical researchers conduct the normal africalogical social science. It was DuBois' (1965, 1970) and Hansberry's knowledge of German that allowed these afrocentrists to conduct research into the role of Blacks in Egypt and Ethiopia. J.A. Rogers mastered many languages including French and German to prove that Blacks inhabited almost every continent on the globe. Dr. C. A. Winters (1977,1981\1982, 1985, 1991, 1994) had to learn Arabic, Chinese, Malinke, Portuguese, Otomi, Mayan, Swahili, Tamil and Tokharian (Kushana) to conduct his africalogical studies of Blacks in Asia and the Americas. Dr. Wintes used his linguistic knowled to decipher the Olmec, Meroitic and Minoan writing systems. Dr, Winters gives a detailed explanation of his decipherment of Meroitic writing numerous Meroitic inscriptions deciphered and in his book: Meroitic Writing and Literature.
In the 1960's due to the rise of independence in the east African country of Tanzania, Swahili became a language used by africalogical scientists. Swahili terms were used to explain and define the phenomena associated with africalogy. This is one of the reasons that the terms used in the Kwanza ceremonies practiced by blacks are Swahili lexical items (Coleman, 1971). Swahili is still among africalogical researchers but today Egyptian is recognized as the classical language for africalogical research (Wimby, 1980). Diop (1974,1991) popularized the idea that Egyptian should be used as the classical language for the study of ancient africalogical language and historical studies. As a result, most of the africalogical researchers today concentrate on Egypt and use Egyptian terms to explain the culture and Proto-African language of Africa people (Carruthers, 1977,1980).
Dr. Winters in Afrocentrism: Myth or Science , Has been able to update the literature regarding African civilizations in Asia, Europe and the Americas. This text provides the blueprint necessary for students to understand why the Afrocentric model of history continues to find support from the archaeological, linguistic and anthropological fields of study
This africalogical research by Winters (1981/1982, 1983b, 1983d, 1989a, 1991, 1994) made it clear that the first civilizations in Indo-China and China were founded by Blacks. He has also proved the lie to Hume's (1875) claim that Blacks have "No literacy" and "No letters". . In A Short History of Black People in Ancient Times (Createspace, 2013) and Ancient African History Primer ( Createspace,2014) Dr. Winters provides a comprehensive discussion of the role of African and Black people in the origin and rise of worldwide civilization.
These scholars recognized that the people of ancient Greece, Southeast Asia and Indo-China were African people. When giants in study of Afrocentrism discussed Blacks in Asia they were talking about people of African descent. So when you claim that these civilizations should be outside the study area of Afrocentric scholars you don't know what you're talking about.
These researchers used anthropological, archaeological historical and linguistic evidence to support their conclusions. It is only natural that these well founded hypotheses developed by these scholars can be supported by population genetics.
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Get up off your knees and learn from the Afro-American scholars who began the study of Blacks in ancient history.
In conclusion, Afrocentrism is a mature social science. A social science firmly rooted in the scholarship of Afro-American researchers lasting almost 200 years. As you can see when I talk about Blacks around the world I am continuing a tradition of scholarship began 20 decades ago. All I am doing is confirming research by DuBois and others, that has not been disconfirmed over the past 200 years.
That is why Ledama neither you , Asar or the Euronuts can not falsify my research.
Aluta continua.....The struggle continues...
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Ledama let’s look at what you wrote and the originator of the historical paradigms I have confirmed. I will place your comments in boldface. Under your comments I will discuss there validity. You wrote
All these is what i call pseudo historical bullshit.And Clyde is the originator of most of these pseudo history.The anachronisms in his works is just too much.I am sorry but somebody has to say it,that is why white people love him,so that they can go back and back and say "hey,look at these mythical mambo jambo PHD afrocentric historians are writing.White people love to quote his work as examples of afrocentric pseudo history".
White supremacist do not like me, they hate me because they can not falsify my work., because it is built on the shoulders of giants like DuBois and J.A. Rogers.
This is your biggest problem, whereas Afro-American PhDs have challenged the historical myths created by white supremacy African PhD support the status quo and promote ideas that insure African nationals fail to know their own history. This was not always the case, African leaders in the 1950’s did teach truths about African history.
1)Negritos are more genetically related to asiatics and indo-europeans.Just because they are dark skinned with negroid features e.g flat wide nose,thick lips,curly hair does not mean they are related to Africans
This is a stupid comment. A negrito is just a pygmy. The pygmy people or Anu, formerly ruled the world up until the great flood after 6kya.
2)R1b did not originate in africa,clyde needs to stop saying that,just because fula,mande and some berbers have it,does not indicate an african origin.
R1b is of African origin. R1b is widespread among Africans. Henn et al (2011) R1b1b1a1a among the Khomani San of South Africa.Henn et al (2011), was surprised by the revelation of R-M269 among this Khoisan population . Wood et al (2005) reported Khoisan carriers of R-M269. Bernielle-Lee et al (2009) , in their study of the Baka and Bakola pygmies found the R1b1 haplogroup. These researchers made it clear that the Baka samples clustered closely to Khoisan samples (Bernielle-Lee et al (2009). Gonzalez et al (2012) , found that 10 out of 19 subjects in his study carried R1b1-P25 or M269 as opposed to V88 in Equatoria Guinea (Gonzalez, et al ,2012 ). This is highly significant because it indicates that 53% of the R1 carriers were M269. This supports the African character of M269.
3)The Olmecs are not related to mandika people,Olmecs are negritos from the Xia chinese dynasty that migrated to the americas escaping mongol expansions.They most likely belonged to Y Haplogroup C.
I did not begin the idea that the Olmec were Mande speakers. It was Leo Wiener, in Africa and the Discovery of America, that pointed out that the characters on the Tuxtla statuette were written in Mande characters and that the Mande languages was the substratum language of Mayan and Nahuatl..The Xia Dynasty was founded by Mande speakers, but they did not found the Olmec civilization in Mexico. You accept this alternative theory because it is promoted by whites
4)Africans in america before columbas,maybe..because some native americans circumcised and were dark skinned.e.g cherookee.BUT what does their DNA indicate?
The DNA tells us that : 1) There are no “pure” Mexindians. Lisker noted that between 5-50% of Indian genes are African genes. See: Suarez-Diaz,(2014) Indigenous populations in Mexico. Medical anthropology in the Work of Ruben Lisker in the 1960’s. Studies in History and Philosophy of Biological and Biomedical Sciences 47 (p.117);2) Mixe, Zenu , Wayuu and other Mexican groups with YAP+ associated A-G transition at DYS271, is of African origin 3) Indian y-chromosome haplogroups C and D show African admixture at locus DYS271; 4) The American haplogroups A and B are part of the haplogroup N macrohaplogroup; 5) the Ch’ol and Chontal at Campeche carry R-M173, E1b1b, K and T; 6) Africans people carry mtDNA A common to mongoloid Native Americans and y-chromosome R, so they probably passed on these genes to mongoloid Native Americans.
5)No clyde,neanderthals were not black people neither were they dark skinned,clyde you cannot not test melanin levels on skulls.And if they are caucasian ancestors,then they are responsible for the low melanin levels in caucasians,because y adam(AOO) and mitochondrial eve are melanated blacks.
Sorry to burst your bubble the Neanderthals were Blacks.
Let's look at the evolution of homo sapiens.
The Eves were also African
The Aurignacian people who replaced the Neanderthal looked like this
Below is the ancestor of Neanderthals
,
. Here is a picture of Neanderthal man
.
By 100kya Neanderthal looked like this
As you can see, there is little difference between the African ancestor of Neanderthals, and the Neanderthals themselves.
Here we have Cro-Magnon or Aurignacian man
[b]6)Afrocentrics should stop ignoring the historicity of the bible because it contains documented history of Africa and world migrations.Eurocentrics hate the bible,because it is a documented proof of black libya,egypt,kush,accad,sumer,harrapan and canaan. Clyde dont throw stones,when you live in a glass house.
As I pointed out the development of Afrocentrism Afro-Americans use the Bible to write the ancient history of Blacks, but they use archaeology and history to reach their conclusions instead of mythology and outright lies like you do. You need to read authentic Afrocentric ancient history text instead of believing the junk promoted about Afrocentrism by white supremacist .
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: Clyde has been writing about this MAA confederation for a long time now.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters
The Proto-Saharans claimed descent from the Maa or Fish Confederation.
The Maa Confederation includes the Egyptians, Elamites, Dravidians, Manding and Sumerians.
yes he's been saying this since 1985 and there is no evidence of an alliance or confederation between Egyptians, Elamites, Dravidians, Manding and Sumerians. So Clyde doesn't need to go saying this same thing 20 years from now. It's time to correct this and admit there is no evidence for a confederation between these nations
Futhermore it's misleading even as a theory to call it the Maa civilization when "Maa" is the name of the language of the Maasai and other ethnic groups in Kenya/Sudan
Yet he excludes them The ones who actually are "Maa" speakers
Are all human settlements "civilzations" ?
Where is the evidence that wet period "Proto Saharans" were a unified group?
Posts: 42925 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: Clyde has been writing about this MAA confederation for a long time now.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters
The Proto-Saharans claimed descent from the Maa or Fish Confederation.
The Maa Confederation includes the Egyptians, Elamites, Dravidians, Manding and Sumerians.
yes he's been saying this since 1985 and there is no evidence of an alliance or confederation between Egyptians, Elamites, Dravidians, Manding and Sumerians. So Clyde doesn't need to go saying this same thing 20 years from now. It's time to correct this and admit there is no evidence for a confederation between these nations
Futhermore it's misleading even as a theory to call it the Maa civilization when "Maa" is the name of the language of the Maasai and other ethnic groups in Kenya/Sudan
Yet he excludes them The ones who actually are "Maa" speakers
Are all human settlements "civilzations" ?
Where is the evidence that wet period "Proto Saharans" were a unified group?
LOL. As I point out in my work the Egyptians, Sumerians, Elamites, Mande and etc. were part of the Maa Confederation. You admit that the term Maa , for the Maasai language was invented by Bernd Heine in 1982. You also even admit that he no longer uses the term.
This is different from the Maa confederacy, that the Mande and other groups claim they belonged too before they went their separate ways.
The support that they belonged to a unified group was the ability to reconstruct their proto-language which gives us keen insight into their unified culture.
You are just jealous that traditional African civilizations had their own way of doing things that were not created by Europeans.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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