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Lioness, still not tired of disinformation? I once asked someone why the faces of Eadgyth and Otto should be selectively darkened while the rest of the sculpture remains White.
quote:Originally posted by jantavanta: Lioness, still not tired of disinformation? I once asked someone why the faces of Eadgyth and Otto should be selectively darkened while the rest of the sculpture remains White.
Yes I am tired of the ignorance people have about the condition of paint and it's chemistry. When you look at some of these several hundred years old paintings not every dark skin tone is discolored paint yet some is and it is detailed in the article. They often treated the skin tones differently in the skin areas sometimes using different pigments and thin layering that is more vulnerable to fading. Some of the under-layers on these paintings were done in gray monochrome ink washes. The lighter color on top can fade revealing the gray under-drawing/washes, or sometimes the lead based paint darkens or flakes off. There is a variety of damage that can occur to paintings over time. Paints are complex mixtures of varying pigments and binders.
The identity of the above couple is unknown, but they may represent Emperor Otto I and his wife Edith. Here is a close-up of the same sculpture as well as the statue of St. Maurice also at Magdeburg Cathedral. These statues are from 1250. None of them can be relied on as likenesses of these people since Sr. Maurice died in 286 and Otto I died in 973. This point is constantly ignored on the tiresome disinformation campaigns. You cannot rely on a depiction of a person made many years, in this case hundreds, after the person died.
Anyway, the artist's intent in making the statue of Maurice was to depict an African but I can't say the same for the statue of Otto and his wife (assuming it's them) , the tip of the nose one side of Otto seems to be broken (?) and they both have straight hair flowing down their shoulders. Ask yourself what modern population they look like. The man's lips are slightly Mick Jagger-esque, I'll give you a point and a half for blackness
As to their brown skin tones I don't know if they are discolored darker or not. That paint could have been that color originally or not . I don't know what type of paint it is and is probably different from the paint used on illuminated manuscripts and panels discussed in original post. Whatever the case may be the paint is flaking off heavily. As you can see on the Queen's nose in the lower detail most of the paint is gone and a grayish black color remains
"This mid-thirteenth century work shows distracting forms of discolored lead white in the flesh tones"
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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"This mid-thirteenth century work shows distracting forms of discolored lead white in the flesh tones"
Yes, look at the woman's face. The paint there is not flaked off. The gray color on her cheek and forehead is white lead carbonate which darkens over time when exposed to air.
In other cases paint can flake off or lighten/fade depending on the chemistry of the particular pigment.
The flesh tones in these paintings are often made with more complex layering than other areas where white might be applied but this layering is comprised of thin layers on top of each other and is more prone to damage.
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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^so here we have some actual brown skinned people depicted,
^ yet here the dark color is clearly paint oxidation, notice the top of the right figures head and their hands. They have some of the original color
^^^ Again, paint decay. There are black madonnas but this is not one of them
John Blanke (also rendered Blancke or Blak) (fl. 1501–1511) was a black musician in London in the early 16th century. He was probably brought to England as one of the African attendants of Catherine of Aragon in 1501. He is one of the earliest recorded black people in England after the Roman period
This however depicts and actual black person ^^
See the difference?
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Blanke was probably the black person depicted twice in the Westminster Tournament Roll, an illuminated manuscript 60 feet long now held by the College of Arms that records the royal procession to the lavish tournament held on 12 and 13 February 1511 to celebrate the birth of a son, Henry, Duke of Cornwall, to Catherine and Henry VIII on New Year's Day 1511. Blanke appears as one of the six trumpeters in the royal retinue. All six of the trumpeters are mounted on horseback, wearing yellow and grey livery, and bearing a trumpet decorated with the royal arms; Blanke alone wears a brown and yellow turban, while the others are bare-headed. He appears a second time in the roll, in the procession back, wearing a green and gold head covering. The infant prince died days later, on 23 February 1511.
^ does anybody have this second image in the back of a procession?
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^ Who is the author of the above? Desperate loon.
quote:It appears that John Blanke, a Black trumpeter, was a regular musician at the courts of both Henry VII and Henry VIII. Musicians' payments were noted in the accounts of the Treasurer of the Chamber, who was responsible for paying the wages. There are several payments recorded to a 'John Blanke, the blacke trumpeter'. This trumpeter was paid 8d a day, first by Henry VII and then from 1509 by Henry VIII.
On New Year's Day 1511 King Henry VIII was presented with a son by his wife, Catherine of Aragon. As was the tradition to celebrate major festivals such as coronations and royal births and marriages, Henry held a great tournament at Westminster.
quote: It appears that John Blanke, a Black trumpeter, was a regular musician at the courts of both Henry VII and Henry VIII. Musicians' payments were noted in the accounts of the Treasurer of the Chamber, who was responsible for paying the wages. There are several payments recorded to a 'John Blanke, the blacke trumpeter'. This trumpeter was paid 8d a day, first by Henry VII and then from 1509 by Henry VIII.
On New Year's Day 1511 King Henry VIII was presented with a son by his wife, Catherine of Aragon. As was the tradition to celebrate major festivals such as coronations and royal births and marriages, Henry held a great tournament at Westminster.
quote: It appears that John Blanke, a Black trumpeter, was a regular musician at the courts of both Henry VII and Henry VIII. Musicians' payments were noted in the accounts of the Treasurer of the Chamber, who was responsible for paying the wages. There are several payments recorded to a 'John Blanke, the blacke trumpeter'. This trumpeter was paid 8d a day, first by Henry VII and then from 1509 by Henry VIII.
On New Year's Day 1511 King Henry VIII was presented with a son by his wife, Catherine of Aragon. As was the tradition to celebrate major festivals such as coronations and royal births and marriages, Henry held a great tournament at Westminster.
posted
There appeared to be a technical problem in the server when I posted.
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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