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Author Topic: Afroasiatic Urheimat
Ase
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So now I think I've finally gotten where people's interest in linguistics lie. There is evidence of Near East contact but the argument is that it didn't displace the native populations of the Nile because they don't speak Semetic, and most languages in Afro Asiatic are African in origin. So people who believe in a Semetic origin are saying proto Afro Asiatic originated in the Levant. And as you can imagine wiki leans very heavily to this.


-Militarev, who linked proto-Afroasiatic to the Levantine Natufian culture, that preceded the spread of farming technology, believes the language family to be about 10,000 years old. He wrote (Militarev 2002, p. 135) that the "Proto-Afrasian language, on the verge of a split into daughter languages", meaning, in his scenario, into "Cushitic, Omotic, Egyptian, Semitic and Chadic-Berber", "should be roughly dated to the ninth millennium BC".

- words for dog (an Asian domesticate) reconstruct to Proto-Afroasiatic

-words for bow and arrow, reconstruct to proto Afro Asiatic and were introduced from the Near East

- The Ohalo II site and others. The Ohalo II site is the oldest known evidence of intensive collection and processing of wild plants among them cereals (4).

- This cultural adaptation was already in existence in Israel 23,000 years ago and it reached its height in the Natufian significant enough so that the Natufians became semi-sedentary as a result of this even higher degree of plant usage.

-This adaptation spread into Africa c. 16,500 BC (5) i.e. Wadi Kubbaniya. This adaptation alone wasn't enough to be the cause of the spread of this language family, but only after this type of culture caused increased sedentism i.e. The Natufian. As a result proto-Afrasian cannot be older than the Early Natufian c. 13,000 BC.

- The Harifian culture c. 11,500 BC was a descendant of the Natufian that was characterized by Harif points and its variant, Ounan points. In North Africa Ounan points become quite common beginning around 8,000 BC (6).

-It should also be noted that there are Common Afrasian words for 'bow' and the word for 'arrow' is shared between Semitic and Kushitic . Since the Harif and Ounan points are the oldest known arrowheads it would seem that proto-Afrasians invented this technology and was a major cause of the spread of this language. From 8,000 to 6,500 BC North Africa also seems to acquire other Near Eastern arrowheads in its material culture .

- This constant contact beginning in 8,000 BC until the early Neolithic seems to show that they have been linked culturally and linguistically all that time which could explain the closer similarities in structure that Semitic has with Berber and Beja.


A collection of stuff that has seemed to be the foundation for wiki's weight to a Levanite hypothesis.


I imagine this discussion may have been beaten to death so if people don't feel like addressing any of these points and have ES links where this has been talked about feel free to post that if you feel it'd save time (I kinda wish we had something stickied if so).

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Djehuti
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First off, why are you even worried about what wiki says?? Wikipedia is overun by editors who often have no regard to accuracy so why bother?

You are correct that the issue has been covered many times before:
here, here, here, here, and here

In short, the linguistic evidence simply doesn't support an Asiatic or Levantine origin. The ONLY Afrasian language native to Asia is Semitic and the only human genetic clade associated with all Semitic speakers is Afican paternal E-M35.

Also, is the dog especially the Egyptian breeds truly an Asian domesticate or not?

And since when was Ohalo II the beginning of the collection and processing of wild plants? One example.

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Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan.

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Ase
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I dunno if I'd say worried. I just realized I didn't have an answer to these points because I'm just starting to understand how linguistics are important to study. Whenever anyone talks about Levanite material culture in predynastic Egypt, The question always came back to: Why didn't they speak an Asiatic language if they were mostly Asian? I didn't realize that because the evidence appears to strongly point to an African origin for Afro Asiatic,suggesting a "proto Afro Asiatic" homeland was in Asia was another attempt to attribute all native speakers of Afro Asiatic as Asians living in Africa. Thanks for the links.
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Djehuti
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^ Which Levantine material culture are you referring to?
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Ase
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Mostly stuff found at places like Buto (Lower Egypt). Didn't really think much point to talk about it in great detail because it may've strayed too much from the main point: even if there is some stuff from the Levant, if Afroasiatic is African in origin, then that shapes how we look at the presence of any material culture from the Levant. That is to say it likely meant trade and small settlements, otherwise Egyptians would've spoken a Semetic language. I do think that many people living in Lower and Middle Egypt were probably at least a little mixed with Semetic from the predynastic though.
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Andromeda2025
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Lord Colin Renfrew | Marija Rediviva: DNA and Indo-European Origins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5u7fls9CIs

Indo European Urheimat confirmed by DNA to be Kurgan hypothesis

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Elmaestro
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^Irrelevant to thread
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Askia_The_Great
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This is an alternative theory like my Bantu/Sudan thread. Moving to Deshret.
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:

Mostly stuff found at places like Buto (Lower Egypt). Didn't really think much point to talk about it in great detail because it may've strayed too much from the main point: even if there is some stuff from the Levant, if Afroasiatic is African in origin, then that shapes how we look at the presence of any material culture from the Levant. That is to say it likely meant trade and small settlements, otherwise Egyptians would've spoken a Semetic language. I do think that many people living in Lower and Middle Egypt were probably at least a little mixed with Semetic from the predynastic though.

But exactly which "stuff"?? The reason I ask is because the only items which can definitively be traced to the Levant are trade items, some of which come from as far as Mesopotamia. This only indicates trade with the Levant not a founding in the area by Levantine people themselves. This is why I am cautious because of the past history Egyptology had with diffusion theories from Asia. While there are certain architectural features such as subterranean structures which resemble those of southern Canaanite culture and certain stone tools like "Canaanite blades" whose to say the direction of influence was the other way around. Look up Harifian culture. There is also the Helwan culture of mesolithic Fayum which has ties to the Natufian of the Levant which suggests common origin if not the former ancestral to the latter.
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

Lord Colin Renfrew | Marija Rediviva: DNA and Indo-European Origins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5u7fls9CIs

Indo European Urheimat confirmed by DNA to be Kurgan hypothesis

Interesting. Here is a paper explaining how the same DNA shows the Kurgan people were not as fair skinned and fair haired as was traditionally believed of proto or early IE speakers.

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Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan.

Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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