posted
I'm going to American University of Cairo this year and I want to know about the treatment of blacks. I would probably pass as an Ethiopian or north Sudanese. I know there are black Egyptians but: Is there racism in Egypt? Will I fit in?
Thanks for your help.
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Yes of course racism exists there like in any other place in the world to a certain extent but with the difference you won't get beaten up or even killed.
Most Egyptians are interested to meet foreigners regardless of their skin color.
So enjoy your time in Egypt and your studies. You won't regret this decision.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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The only racism I know of in this country is between the Muslim and Coptic society of sickos, of course this isn't a generalization but has been an issue ever since our benign Muslim society was influenced by the influx of dark age Saudi Wahabi culture into Egypt due to millions of Egyptian labour present in Saudi Arabia. Blacks were never treated with racism in Egypt nor in the Arab world since they're part of the culture of their relative societies , Egypt has a nubian culture in the south that represents an important part of its society historically, they are all blacks or actually dark skinned. There's a large Sudanese society in Cairo living in peace and those are mainly Christians. You shouldn't even think of your skin color in Egypt nor elsewhere, I think people should understand this clearly.
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On the Fringe of the of the Sudanese Refugees’ Tragedy :Egyptian Racism –Curable or Not?
23/01/2006
The brutal security cudgels that wasted tens of lives were not the most brutal thing that Sudanese refugees faced during the forceful break up of their peaceful sit-in strike in Mustafa Mahmoud square in downtown Cairo. Reactions of some intellectuals and hostile prejudiced comments by citizens were even more painful and brutal. They showed some kind of a superior tone that was not compatible with the widely known tolerance and acceptance of the other of the Egyptian people. Such grave repercussions gave rise to an important question: “Is Egypt suffering a racism syndrome or is it just individual attitudes?” Cairo Institute for Human Rights Studies (CIHRS) found it imperative to raise this itching question for discussion within the framework of Ibn Rushd Salon.
That was the message on the invitation card of CIHRS seminar organized within the framework of Ibn Rushd Salon entitled "On the Fringe of the Sudanese Refugees’ Tragedy :Egyptian Racism – Curable or Not? " Moderated by CIHRS Director, Mr. Bahey-Eddin Hassan, the seminar witnessed dynamic debates and discussions .
In commencement of the Salon deliberations, Mr. Bahey-Eddin Hassan argued that following the unjustified attack and use of excessive violence to break up the peaceful sit-in strike of the Sudanese refugees in front of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Mustafa Mahmoud square, many reactions renouncing this maltreatment came in sequence, spotting reactions of citizen who witnessed the incidents. Quoting an article by Shereen Abul-Naga, where she expressed her shock at young people’s applause to security forces and the rise of some racist discourse within their ranks manifested in branding these refugees as infidels, magi, and stinking.
Mr. Hassan also referred to a press interview by a Nubian man of letters, Hajjaj Adoul, published in Al-Dustoor daily newspaper, in which he argued that Nubians feel persecuted. “Blacks are being excluded from working in the Egyptian TV, and the Nubian history is totally neglected in all national education curricula; two flagrant evidences of persecution,” elaborated Hajjaj in the interview. According to Mr. Adoul, most of the Egyptians spurn their African origin; even worse, they have developed an egotistic attitude towards black nations of the continent.
Mr. Hassan then shed light on another issue, which is that of the Copts dossier, which has always been addressed in terms of its relation with the state, however the social behavior aspect in this regard is always overlooked. He argued that it is easy to discuss state accountability – which no one can justify by any means—but it is more important to address these issues in terms of the relevant social attitudes and orientation.
Mr. Nabil Abdul-Fattah, an expert at Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies Center, expressed his apologies to the Sudanese nation for the previous shocking incidents, which prejudice the historical assets of the Egyptian and Sudanese peoples. Such deplorable acts are totally unjustifiable, whether politically or morally, and even if they are motivated by the state’s right to ensure domestic security, asserted Mr. Abdul-Fattah. These events impair a history of cultural and symbolic kinship that have always constituted a cornerstone of the Egyptian foreign policy and relations between both nations. On the other hand, Mr. Abdul-Fattah expressed categorical reservation on the histrionic writings, whether published by Egyptians or Sudanese. Enraged discourse, histrionics, overgeneralization, and exaggeration are now key features that signify the public debate in Egypt regarding many issues.
It is a problem of cultural and political elite undergoing a real crisis as it lacks in new skills on top of which is the lack of capability to use accurate terms and descriptions and to phrase questions, not only in this issue, but in many other issues, which indicates that it had turned into some serious symptom of a structural syndrome in the way Egyptian ruling and cultural elites think and act.
Mr. Abdul-Fattah explained that there are several social problems embedded in the Egyptian society, a major part of which ensues from cherishing elites that have developed malaise for over three decades, and that this political, cultural and media elite is facing deteriorating levels of renewal, as well as deteriorating skills and eroding capabilities, the matter which constitutes a crisis added to Egypt’s already existing ones.
Warning against linking the Sudanese refugees issue with other issues, such as the Nubian or Copts problem, Mr. Abdul-Fattah explained that some of the historical incidents that faced Nubians before and after the High Dam, have not been ethnic or racist but rather partly related to how former Egyptian governments dealt with some of the problems facing Egyptian Nubian citizens at that time. He further expounded that a considerable number of Nubians moved to work in Cairo following the construction of the High Dam, and a lot of tensions were dramatized and stereotyped in the Egyptian cinema.
Mr. Abdul-Fattah added that any attempt to make simple generalization or superimposing issues such as the Coptic or the Nubians will foil drafting strategies aimed at remedying some differences that afflict societal relations as well as relations between the state and the society.
He added that an objective researcher can not help but standing aghast at some symbolically violent reactions triggered by a number of sources, first of which is the security violence against refugees, second is the history of Egyptian-Sudanese relations, whether during the Egyptian or the Anglo-Egyptian rule in the Sudan before independence. He indicated that this is the strategy used by the Northern Sudanese political elite in manipulating the domestic political game especially when internal crisis reinforces, as the Sudanese Egyptian relations are always tapped as part of the domestic political game. The third of these sources, Mr. Abdul-Fattah contended, constitutes in the reductive trend of the Egyptian-Sudanese relations within the framework of water and security dossiers, excluding the common public and cultural heritage.
Mr. Abdul-Fattah wondered whether a study was, or is to be, conducted on the incident in focus on abusing refugees which triggered the anger of the prevalent trend among the Egyptian cultural elite, as manifested in the writings and demonstrations of some activists on the massacre. He stressed that nothing serious was done concerning that issue, and that the best done was depending on quick testimonies by some victims, witnesses or others who were affected some way or another by such incidents. He added that few testimonies cannot be enough to establish Egyptians as racists.
Criticizing the excessive use of violence is necessary for incriminating the perpetrators on a moral scale, yet, Mr. Abdul-Fattah added that, on the other hand, some Sudanese literature is to blame too, especially as nobody has given a pragmatic evidence that the incidents reflect racism within the ranks of the Egyptian people. Quoting some Sudanese literature supporting his argument, Mr. Abdul-Fattah explained that the official policy in both countries is fluctuating reflecting attitudes of the ruling elite and how far they change from time to time. He added that if we should go over the stereotypical discourse of anger, we will have to stick to objectivity in addressing negative incidents within the bilateral framework. Highlighting the negative role of the discourses and literature mixing up intergovernmental policies with community relations --being different at some aspects—Mr. Abdul-Fattah attributed the differences to a lack of democratic systems, the political legitimacy of which is established on the public will of the nation whether in Egypt or in the Sudan.
Further, ethnic and racist trends appeared in the thirties of the eighth century, holding the banner of racial supremacy, based particularly on the hypothesis of “Race determines culture” that had remained applicable in this sense till 1990s, when it gained a wider connotation. He expounded that currently, the world depends more on the collective use of public traditions about the nature of race than being based on science.
He then called for marking the difference between the racial supremacy myth and the emergence of some form of national protection in certain societies as would happen in Egypt during major social, economic or political crises. The Egyptian society is undergoing a profound crisis, Mr. Abdul-Fattah added, burdened with a heavy five-year odd legacy of political oppression, authoritarian regimes, absence of special initiatives and erosion of democracy. He further explained that some Egyptians are trying through political action operations – that are in crisis too – to open other doors for re-discussing problems of a society in crisis.
Racist Society
The Nubian novelist, Hajjaj Adoul, argued that there is severe racism within the Egyptian society at all brackets and classes, giving as evidence the nonexistence of a dark-skinned broadcaster in Egyptian media. Adoul accused the Egyptian society who vanished into the White West, showing hubris towards the black in a bid to offset this imbalance.
Adoul affirmed that within Egypt, dark-skinned people are treated as slaves, or predecessors of slaves, despite the fact that slaves belonged to all races not the black race alome. Egypt is suffering from an egotism based on color, he added, that is both inherited and imported, giving as evidence the wide circulation of ‘Antara’ and ‘Abu Zaid el-Hilali’ biographies (legendary black Arab poets and warriors) among Egyptians. Our countries, he added, occupied as they were by the Europeans feel inferior to them in terms of physical beauty: we always believe that typical beauty is measurable to Europeans. Mr. Adoul further argued that Egyptian minds totally reject to classify Egypt among the African nations, and that they keep cursing the West then, ironically enough, immigrate there.
The Egyptian society is really racist; Egyptian urban areas are egotistic over the rural areas; both Upper Egyptians and peasants are always depicted as laughing stock. Racism, thus, is deeply rooted in the Egyptian society, he affirmed. Mr. Adoul explained that some had acted in solidarity with the Sudanese refugees, while most of the Egyptians “spurned” them.
Mr. Adoul accused the Egyptian government of flooding the Nubian lands five times; and when it started to reclaim Nubian lands, the Egyptian government brought non-Nubians to settle there, which, according to Adoul, could be seen as an ethnic cleansing of the Nubians. He added that the successive Egyptian governments announced that the lands around Lake Nasser are designated for the Upper Egyptian poor, totally neglecting Nubians.
Warning of the continued persecution against Nubians, Mr. Adoul argued that this can render them a “negative element” to the Egyptian national security. Hajjaj affirmed, in the same time, that Nubia is part of Egypt contrary to the accusations against Nubians of being separatists. He explained that the South is the most significant to Egypt especially as “water warfare” has already started, the matter which necessitates further communication with peoples of the south both economically and culturally so that flow of the Nile water would be guaranteed.
Crisis of Tolerance
Mr. Nijad El-Borai, Director of Group for Developing Democracy, commenced with stressing that the incidents that took place against refugees in Mustafa Mahmoud Square have nothing to do with racism. He argued that this violent security practices have been exercised before with demonstrators –of both gender indiscriminately—against the amendment of the constitution, later known as the Referendum Day events. El-Borai held that the aforementioned events reflect that security forces are getting out of control; a fact that is quite serious to Egyptians rather than to Sudanese.
The Egyptian society has indeed grown more intolerant, a matter which has nothing to do with skin color, Mr. El-Borai argued, and that Arab societies in general, including the Egyptian and the Sudanese societies, are not so tolerant themselves, but not to the extent of racism. Racism itself, he added, does not still have the same classic definition that a certain race feels more superior over another; other forms of racism are based now on the fact that the other may be inferior or “posing a threat” to one’s interests, thus they should be viewed as enemies but not necessarily in superior-inferior terms.
Mr. El-Borai argued that the Egyptian society, due to the numerous crises it went through, grew more intolerant and more apprehensive towards the other, and against the background of high unemployment, most Egyptians are on the guard for Sudanese, among other nationals, who might share the narrow job opportunities available, particularly as the Sudanese are skillful while demanding less wages. Mr. El-Borai argued that the reactions within the Egyptian society represent symptoms of racism in its new definition reflected in hatred of aliens as a result of the several crises, including economic ones, that Egyptians are facing. Egyptians are going to grow more hostile and more religiously intolerant, he added, unless their problems are considered.
Mr. El-Borai stressed that this problem can be solved only if the authoritarian totalitarian regimes are replaced with democratic governments, together with poised consideration of things and acknowledging a responsibility that all should bear in a bid to come to the solution. He stressed that things should be put in perspective, explaining that this can only be achieved through certain factors, first of which is to recognize that mutual interests should have the top priority in relations between nations and countries, and that nothing is called “brotherly” or the “one people”, in addition to discussing all matters truthfully and transparently.
As an ending note, Mr. El-Borai called for discouraging racist attitudes that develop through encouraging irresponsible acts, and the necessity to stress “interests” rather than emotions, along with more attention on the part of the Egyptian government to the Southern interests; the real national security starts in the south rather than in Palestine or the north, as echoed by late president Jamal Abdul Nasser.
Heritage of Class Discrimination
Amira Bahey-Eddin, attorney-at-law and Human Rights activist, affirmed rejection of the “racism” notion, arguing that security forces beat women journalists and demonstrators, and is still abusing detainees, however, assaulting refugees was not because these forces are racist or representing a racist nation, rather because they are –security forces— schooled to torture people. Amira further denounced the young people’s applause of the forces while attacking refugees, explaining that Egyptian people’s traditions should not permit them to applaud security forces beating others.
Ms. Bahey-Eddin referred to existent heritage of class discrimination within the Egyptian society that renders some of the classes mock, for example, the “odorous” peasants, which is not racist per se. She explained, however, that the residents of al-Mohandeseen, the prospect of the events, are mainly “nouveau riche” who feel nauseated at the Egyptian poor and peasants, arguing that if their lowly mockery touched other brackets, it would not be interpreted as racist. Ignorance among Egyptian public drove them, some way, to mock Japanese art, Italian opera as well as African art, and went as far as to mock “Antara Ibn Shaddad” as an Arab, non-Egyptian, figure.
Explaining that the Coptic problems are related to sectarian tensions within the society, Ms. Bahey-Eddin argued that certain parties stoke fire of tension giving as evidence the fact that the National Democratic Party nominated two Copts only on its slate for the latest parliamentary elections, along with the slogans made by the Muslim Brotherhoods and their advocates against Copts, deeming this as a state of irrational and immoral “mobilization” rooted in the minds of the Egyptian public and ticking to bomb.
Sarah Carr catches an unsettling glimpse of life as a Sudanese refugee
The uneasy Arab-African dichotomy in Egyptian identity is nowhere more evident than in Egyptian popular attitudes towards their black African "brothers". Egypt's pride in its African identity on the international and diplomatic level -- as demonstrated in its 2006 African Cup victory celebrations -- seems to dissolve amongst the ranks of its ordinary citizens, and people of black African descent in Egypt -- whether refugees or tourists -- are regularly exposed to racism. Xenophobic and discriminatory attitudes are obviously not restricted to those of black African heritage: a certain insularity in Egyptian society means that almost anyone perceived as belonging to another culture (including Egyptians born and brought up abroad) is regarded with curiosity if not suspicion. What exacerbates racism towards black people however are popular conceptions of beauty as packaged and sold by the media and embodied in Lebanese singer Nancy Agram's white-skinned and green-eyed artificial perfection: the maxim is the lighter the better, and this perception is blind to the beauty in black.
Where does that leave young black Sudanese refugees stranded in Cairo? Ibrahim El-Batout's disturbing documentary, I am a Refugee Living in Cairo, shown in Cairo's Townhouse Gallery last week, explores the devastating consequences of these exclusionary and racist attitudes. The sense of alienation and anger they induce has recently manifested itself in the form of gang war within the Sudanese community, which forms the subject of the film.
It follows members of Cairo's two most prominent gangs: the Lost Boys (whose members are the sons of community leaders and which is rumoured to have the backing of the Sudan Popular Resistance Movement); and the weaker Outlaws. The gangs represent surrogate support networks if not families for the young men who join their ranks: they often live together, share food and money and provide protection from frequent, racially-motivated physical attacks by Egyptians. The young men who appeared share a sense of hopelessness: refugees in Egypt are denied their right to work and frequently encounter bureaucratic, financial and other obstacles in pursuing their education. The inability of most Sudanese refugees to find work legally has pushed them into the informal sector, frequently into domestic service. This has upset the traditional distribution of roles within Sudanese homes by forcing men to stay at home while women act as the bread-winners, exacerbating the sense of frustration. This noxious combination of absent mothers, a feeling of abandonment by the United Nation High Commission for Refugees in Cairo (UNHCR), constant hostility from Egyptian society and an inability to plan for the future has created young men who in the film speak bitterly of their lives in Egypt, going as far as to describe them as in some ways worse than the war they had fled in Sudan.
In one particularly disturbing scene we are shown the Sudanese victim of a racist assault who, attempting to escape his tormentors sought refuge in his flat, which they set on fire, trapping him inside. He survived, but with horrific burns. Another youth describes hearing verbal racist insults on a daily basis, saying that if he responds the situation will give way to violence. In another scene we are shown a Sudanese gang member attempting to pass through security in a social club of some description. It is not clear whether he has already passed through the metal detector, but the guards require him to go through it whether or not he has. He objects, is edgy and frustrated and clearly regards the treatment as yet another instalment of daily humiliation -- the tension quickly escalates.
Little wonder that young men seek refuge in these gangs, whose defining feature is their mimicking of black American rap culture. Gang members have adopted the rap lifestyle wholesale, dressing in the baggy trousers, sports shoes and heavy jewellery beloved of their heroes, and each gang has hand signs and other symbols unique to it -- again in emulation of US rap culture. In adopting this identity these youths seem to be consciously rejecting Arab culture -- which after all, they perceive as having rejected them -- and embracing a world in which black is beautiful, successful and rich.
Empowerment perhaps, but at the price of internecine violence which, just as it wreaked havoc on America's rap community, seems just as essential an accessory. The film shows gang members who have fallen victim to this meaningless violence: broken limbs, stabbings and even fatalities, the most recent of which occurred when violence erupted after the AUC's celebration of World Refugee Day last month. Speaking after the film AUC Professor of Forced Migration and Refugee Studies Barbara Harrell-Bond pointed out that gang violence intensified after the 2005 three-month Mostafa Mahmoud protest held by asylum seekers and refugees outside the UNHCR was violently broken up by police on 30 December leading to the deaths of some 30 people. The government has rejected calls from rights groups and a United Nations body (the Committee on Migrant Workers, to which Egypt recently submitted its periodic report on the implementation of the Convention for the Protection of Migrant Workers and their Families) for a re-opening of the inquiry into the deaths, claiming firstly that many of the protestors were under the influence of drugs and alcohol (though half of those who died were women and children) and that investigators were unable to establish the identity of police officers who failed to follow orders.
That such violence could have occurred with impunity will inevitably have fuelled the gang members' anger and sense of vulnerability. One youth in the film spoke of his sense of being unprotected, by either UNHCR or the Egyptian government. And yet the violence and delinquency in which these gangs indulge ,while senseless and gratuitous in itself, is demonstrably attributable to the gang members' loss of hope and the simple fact that those without jobs have nothing to do all day: in the question and answer session after the film Harrell- Bond pointed out that when English classes were organised for young refugees including gang members incidences of violence fell dramatically -- and rose again when the American volunteers who had been teaching the classes left Egypt and the classes ended.
I am a Refugee Living in Cairo is a starkly depressing film which gives a sense of the desperation palpable amongst Cairo's Sudanese refugee community, and which has fuelled its search for an alternative, increasingly violent, identity.
quote:Originally posted by NoBullCrap: I'm going to American University of Cairo this year and I want to know about the treatment of blacks. I would probably pass as an Ethiopian or north Sudanese. I know there are black Egyptians but: Is there racism in Egypt? Will I fit in?
Thanks for your help.
NBC, if you are a black American you won't have any issues. Egyptians do know how to spot Westerners. Again enjoy your upcoming stay. It will be a very exciting and educating time for you. All the best.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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CAIRO, June 24 (Reuters) - Mohammad Adam al-Bakr, a Sudanese street vendor, didn't see the knife that stabbed him, and hardly knew the man who thrust it into his abdomen, leaving him bleeding on a Cairo sidewalk.
But he says he knows exactly why he was attacked while selling cheap wallets on the street outside a Cairo subway stop.
"The economy is difficult here. There is racism. It's not just against Sudanese, but any African," he said, recuperating in bed from his wounds.
African migrants in Cairo, some of them refugees fleeing war and persecution and others simply seeking better lives abroad, say they face persistent racism in Egypt, though violent attacks are rare.
They say raucous youths taunt them on the streets by yelling "oonga boonga" at them, throwing rocks and calling them names. The harassment, they say, is only getting worse as Egypt's battered economy continues to suffer.
"They don't want us here," said one Sudanese woman, who says she was beaten on the street by a stranger in an attack she attributes to racism.
As Europe and the West have fortified their borders against refugees and economic migrants, more and more Africans have found themselves stranded in countries like Egypt, unwilling or afraid to return home but unable to move on.
Dependent on tourist dollars and connected by land to war-torn Sudan, Egypt has been more lenient than other Middle Eastern states about granting African migrants entry on student or tourist visas and sympathetic about letting them stay.
But the semi-official al-Ahram newspaper voiced fears of a "foreigner crisis" in the labour market in a recent article and said African workers were filling the streets of the capital.
"There is a perception that there are so many problems at home, these migrants simply cannot be absorbed. The economy cannot afford to absorb them," said Anita Fabos, director of the Forced Migration and Refugee Studies programme at the American University in Cairo.
"The perception of Egyptians is that all these people come here as scroungers," she said.
TENSIONS RISING
Violence against migrants is not nearly as severe as mass attacks against African migrant workers in neighbouring Libya in 2000 in which officials said up to six migrants died. Media reports put the death toll higher.
But a doctor who provides medical care to a community of 20,000 African refugees and asylum-seekers registered with his Cairo clinic says violence against Africans is rising.
"It's probably one serious event a month...I mean something that requires hospitalisation or serious medical care," said Keith Russell, medical director of Joint Relief Ministries.
His patients include a family whose home was firebombed and who were stabbed as they fled, a woman attacked from behind by a man who slashed at her wrists, and a man who was unconscious for 24 hours after being attacked by a gang of youths and thrown onto railroad tracks. All of the victims were Sudanese.
Most of them, especially refugees who feel vulnerable and are afraid of being deported, do not go to the police, he said.
The United Nations refugee agency, responsible for roughly 8,500 recognised urban refugees in Egypt, said race-related violence first showed up on its radar here last year, when three violent incidents were reported.
"It's a new phenomenon. We don't recall in the previous years that refugees have been subject to racist incidents," a spokesman said, adding that the problem was still "marginal".
No one knows how many African immigrants live in Egypt, a vast country of roughly 70 million people. Most of the immigrants -- between 250,000 and several million -- are Sudanese, mainly Arabic-speaking, Muslim northerners who blend in better than refugees from the more African south or west.
A smattering of immigrants from other African countries like Somalia, Ethiopia and Eritrea have also made Cairo their home -- or at least a stop on the road to a better life in the West.
The newcomers say they are hassled because they are black. Though Egypt is geographically in Africa, its national identity is deeply rooted in the Arab, Muslim Middle East.
Egyptians counter there is little racism, saying Egyptians come in all colours.
"We are African also. This is one aspect of our identity. It is one of our roots," said Nabil Abdel Fattah, an analyst at the al-Ahram Centre for Political and Strategic Studies.
"The Sudanese people are living together with Egyptian people without any discrimination," he added, saying any problems were caused by individual trouble-makers, not society.
COMPETING FOR CRUMBS
Activists say resentment against the migrants is high because of a belief that African workers undercut Egyptians in the labour market at a time when jobs are scarce and prices of basic goods are rising.
Egypt's economy has suffered in recent months as tourism -- a key foreign currency earner -- slumped in the wake of September 11 attacks on the United States and as violence in nearby Israel and the Palestinian territories spiralled.
Many of the migrants live on the fringes of Cairo's strained economy. They live up dank stairwells in crowded apartment blocks in some of Cairo's poorest neighbourhoods and share space with Egyptians who are also struggling to survive.
"There is a sort of competition between Egyptians and Sudanese," said Magda Ali, programme officer for Maan, a Sudanese women's empowerment group.
The fact that some African refugees, by applying for asylum at the United Nations, can move to the West, only fuels the resentment. Poor Egyptians rarely have that opportunity.
Bakr and another Western Sudanese man injured in the same attack say the stabbing by a neighbourhood thug they say they recognised but did not personally know followed daily harassment by nearby vendors who told them to go back to Sudan.
"I hope that as soon as I can, I will leave," said Mohammad Osman, a recognised refugee slated for resettlement to Canada.
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The Sudanese issue is totally off topic, it is outdated and nothing to be compared to the incidents carved in the history of some of the world's leading nations of our time. For the record the Sudanese community in Egypt is split up by rival ethnic groups namely muslim from the north and christian from the south, forming gangs to track each other down like in any rival ethnic community in the world. Incidents between both groups have been reported but are every day incidents that do not represent a threat to the presence of the Sudanese people in Egypt,I'm sure walking into any ghetto in the world after midnight would be life threatening, even if you were Rambo himself.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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no matter where u go in the world there will be prejudisim in every country...
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I think the Egyptian gouvernment is guilty on discrimination by law! There are official rules making thing possible for a man, and not for a woman. All people without having Islam as religion are officially discriminated, but also etnic groups as the Bedouins! There are Bedouins who are not able to get a passport, and have a kind of outlaw status.
What the common coloured student will notice about discrimination, depends on many factors. As long as he isn't poor ( and I think students from AUC are considered as rich) won't face a lot of discrimination...
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I had many many friends from the Sudanese community when i first lived in Cairo. They WERE treated horribly sometimes. Egyptain men (usually) would call them names and spit on the floor and about Aids in front of them . The Sudanese people i knew were both Christain and Muslim and seemed to get on quite well even with some living together.
I agree with Tiger NBS that you 'should' not have a problem if you are a black western man sad i know but true. You have ignorant people EVERYWHERE!
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Tiger I remember watching the Sudanese Refugees tragedy on TV. it was shocking. Racism unfortunately is a sad reality of life Darfur is an prime example of this sort of crime against humanity. Millions slaughtered ethnic cleansing shocking.
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i aked walid once if he likes black women.. he said that he doesnt like black women cas he loves me.. i wonder y he would say that.. i think he is prejudice...cas i met thie really nice black lady and tried to hook her up with mohmed.. his bro.. he said hell no she is ugly.. and she is and was far more pretty then i was.. so i think no matter where u go there are issues....with race and color...its sad cas we are all family in one way shape or form.. i asked him how can he hate blacks and love me cas i am white.. he never did answer that...cas i think it would be whats the word for it... when u say one thing and do another?? brain fart here....
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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NoBullCrap is not Sudanese I hope, coz now you guys have done a wonderful job scaring him/her from coming to Egypt with all this crap about Egyptians beating, stabbing, spitting and slaughtering blacks mainly Sudanese. Foreigners are so naive when it comes to Egyptian mentality and culture..its pathetic. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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u should be scared going to a new country.. but if thats the case be scared to walk out yr front door...going to another country u take yr chances like i said there is good and bad in every country and every race.....i would go to africa.. y not i am not scared to be around all blacks or all whites or brownies or tannies... hey i love all people.... u just take yr chances and pray yr plane doesnt go down
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You foreigners are warned from your governments that Egypt and middle eastern countries like Iran,Syria,Sudan,Lybia,Lebanon,Israel are all danger zones for one reason or another, but never for racial discrimination..so why bring such nonesense up to scare away a black individual, you're off topic from square one. Wanna scare him or what ?
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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I am black American and married to an Egyptian, and lived in Egypt a few months. My experience was all good. You just need to realize there is racism everywhere. Of note, Egyptians are of varying shades just as blacks. In my opinion, its all about preference. Keep in mind some white foreigners date/marry dark Egyptians but would never think about dating a black person. Don't let some of these posts scare you. Just like the media mostly talk negative about the Arabs/North Africans/middle easterners keep in mind the majority of it is not true.
Posts: 319 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2006
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Okay, of course there's racism everywhere. I spoke to an Egyptian who mentioned it was the real dark Sudanese people that they don't like, but I didn't ask her why. Some say it wasn't a matter of color, it was because they were in their country taking jobs and it was easier for them to come to the US than Egypt, etc... Even in the islands, those who are darker skinned aren't like as much as those who are lighter skin or have long hair or "white facial features" (sorry I can't think of anything better now). In the US, many people think I'm Indian or a dark Arab because I'm mixed and my hair and facial features but I'm still brown skinned. I know there are color consciousness. You can even watch commercials about skin lightening over there, lol. I've been to Egypt before and people couldn't figure out what I was. And people were really nice but I was ther only for a month. Some asked if I Sudanese with doubt though, LOL. But because I'm going to be living there, I'm more concerned and want to make sure that it won't be a strange situation or people won't want to talk to me because of that.
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African Americans are admired greatly in Egypt for their fame in music, Michael Jackson especially,movies, athletics, boxing , basketball. Obama is also very much liked for his African ancestry.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: NoBullCrap is not Sudanese I hope, coz now you guys have done a wonderful job scaring him/her from coming to Egypt with all this crap about Egyptians beating, stabbing, spitting and slaughtering blacks mainly Sudanese. Foreigners are so naive when it comes to Egyptian mentality and culture..its pathetic.
No I'm not Sudanese. I'm American but my parents are from the West Indies. I'm half hispanic and half black.
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Mariah Carey then, would be my idol. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Mariah Carey then, would be my idol.
Well Mariah Carey is half white and half black. I'm light brown color, LOL. Think more like Beyonce's color.
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: i aked walid once if he likes black women.. he said that he doesnt like black women cas he loves me.. i wonder y he would say that.. i think he is prejudice...cas i met thie really nice black lady and tried to hook her up with mohmed.. his bro.. he said hell no she is ugly.. and she is and was far more pretty then i was.. so i think no matter where u go there are issues....with race and color...its sad cas we are all family in one way shape or form.. i asked him how can he hate blacks and love me cas i am white.. he never did answer that...cas i think it would be whats the word for it... when u say one thing and do another?? brain fart here....
Well your husband said that he doesnt like black women because he loves you because he's your husband. You think he's going to say, "I like black women" while his wife is white. LOL. :-) But anyway, it's a matter of preference, I think. There are blacks that like lighter skinned women, too. So this black lady that you wanted to introduce to his brother, where was she from, out of curiosity.
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: i aked walid once if he likes black women.. he said that he doesnt like black women cas he loves me.. i wonder y he would say that.. i think he is prejudice...cas i met thie really nice black lady and tried to hook her up with mohmed.. his bro.. he said hell no she is ugly.. and she is and was far more pretty then i was.. so i think no matter where u go there are issues....with race and color...its sad cas we are all family in one way shape or form.. i asked him how can he hate blacks and love me cas i am white.. he never did answer that...cas i think it would be whats the word for it... when u say one thing and do another?? brain fart here....
Well your husband said that he doesnt like black women because he loves you because he's your husband. You think he's going to say, "I like black women" while his wife is white. LOL. :-) But anyway, it's a matter of preference, I think. There are blacks that like lighter skinned women, too. So this black lady that you wanted to introduce to his brother, where was she from, out of curiosity.
she is american...
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Mariah Carey then, would be my idol.
Well Mariah Carey is half white and half black. I'm light brown color, LOL. Think more like Beyonce's color.
Well since we talk about color: I look like Snow White with freckles!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Blacks were never treated with racism in Egypt
I have several black or dark-skinned friends who get racist remarks / treatment in Cairo.
I also have a European friend who lives in Maadi with his Ehtiopian girl friend and is sick and tired of the racist and sexist remarks she gets even when in his presence.
And I don't think those incidences are an exception, I've heard about and observed quite a bit of racism here.
The Arab World’s Dirty Secret: Racism
I was on my way home on the Cairo Metro, lost in thought as I listened to music when I noticed a young Egyptian taunting a Sudanese girl. She reached out and tried to grab the girl’s nose and mouth and laughed when the girl tried to brush her hand away.
The Sudanese girl looked to be Dinka, from southern Sudan and not the northern Sudanese who “look like us”. She looked black African and was obviously in distress.
I removed my headphones and asked the Egyptian woman “Why are you treating her like that?”
She exploded into a tornado of yelling, demanding to know why it was my business. I told her it was my business because as an Egyptian and as a Muslim who was riding the Metro, her behaviour was wrong and I would not stay silent about it. I knew she was Muslim because she wore a scarf.
I told her that the way she was treating the Sudanese girl made the scarf on her head meaningless. Her mother asked me why I didn’t cover my hair and I replied that I didn’t want to be a hypocrite like her and her daughter.
As distressing as I found that young woman’s behaviour, I was even more distressed that the other women in the Metro car with us watched passively and said nothing. They made no attempt to defend the Sudanese girl nor to defend me when I confronted the Egyptian woman.
After the Egyptian woman got off at her station, I asked the other women why they didn’t do anything. One woman said she stayed silent because the racist woman would’ve yelled at her and told her to mind her own business too. So what, I asked? If enough of the women had confronted her, she would have been outnumbered.
I apologized to the Sudanese girl for the Egyptian woman’s behaviour and she thanked me for defending her and told me “Egyptians are bad”. I could only imagine other times she’d been abused publicly.
We are a racist people in Egypt and we are in deep denial about it. On my Facebook page, I blamed racism for my Cairo Metro argument and an Egyptian man wrote to deny that we are racists and used as his proof a programme on Egyptian Radio featuring Sudanese songs and poetry!
That’s like a racist white American denying he’s a racist because he listens to rap and some of his best friends are black.
Our silence over racism in Egypt not only destroys the warmth and hospitality we are proud of as Egyptians, it has deadly consequences.
What else but racism on Dec. 30, 2005 allowed hundreds of riot police to storm through a makeshift camp in central Cairo to clear it of 2,500 Sudanese refugees, trampling or beating to death 28 people, among them women and children?
What else but racism lies behind the bloody statistics at the Egyptian border with Israel where, since 2007, Egyptian guards have killed at least 33 migrants, many from Sudan’s war-torn Darfur region, including a pregnant woman and a 7-year-old girl?
The racism I saw on the Cairo Metro has an echo in the Arab world at large where the suffering in Darfur goes ignored for two main reasons – firstly because its victims are black people and we don’t care about those with dark skins and secondly because those who are creating the misery in Darfur are not Americans or Israelis and we only pay attention when America and Israel are behaving badly.
International experts say that fighting in Darfur has so far killed 200,000 and driven 2.5 million from their homes and yet nobody cares in the Arab world.
My argument on the Cairo Metro was a also a reminder of our double standards. We love to cry “Islamophobia” when we talk about the way Muslim minorities are treated in the West and yet we never stop to consider how we treat minorities and the most vulnerable among us.
The U.S. television network ABC recently staged a scenario in which an actor worked in a bakery in Texas and refused to serve an actress dressed as a Muslim woman in a headscarf. The scene was an experiment to see if other customers would help the Muslim woman.
Thirteen customers defended her by yelling at the clerk, asking for the manager or walking out in disgust. Six customers supported the bigoted clerk and 22 looked away and did absolutely nothing.
I cried when I watched that episode and I wonder now which Egyptian television channel would dare to stage such an experiment? And which Arab television channel would dare to stage a programme which so boldly looks at our racism and confronts us with the question “what would you do?” as the ABC show did.
For those of us who move between different worlds – where one day we are a majority as I am as a Sunni Muslim in Egypt and another we are a minority as I am as a Muslim in America – it is clear that to defend the rights of a Sudanese girl on the Cairo Metro means to defend my right on the New York Subway.
We live in a world that is connected in unprecedented ways. And that connection now extends to rights. If we want our rights to be respected we must do the right thing, everywhere.
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"...Racism is widely reported by Africans and African-Americans as a significant problem in Egypt, albeit one that is denied by many Egyptians. Blacks from countries as close as Sudan and as far away as Liberia or even the United States endure verbal and sometimes physical attacks, reporting being propositioned, spat upon, sexually assaulted and injured in public. Many attribute this to widespread racism against black African refugees, most specifically Sudanese refugees, that is generalized to include all people with darker skin.
Racism in Egypt, like racism everywhere, is complex. Devaluing darker skin and privileging lighter skin is not traditional in Egypt. In fact, Egyptians consider themselves sumr, or “dark” and traditionally praised the beauty and value of dark skin in popular music. Songs such as “Asmar ya asmarani” (Dark one, oh dark one) and “Asmar, asmar tayeb malu, walla samaru sirr gamalu” (So what if he is dark, that is the secret of his beauty) are now considered classics in Egypt. Even the word samara, or “darkie,” was traditionally regarded as a term of endearment.
Yet in today’s Egypt this appreciation for darker skin has been largely replaced by disdain. The term samara has begun to be used pejoratively, yelled at blacks on the street. Fareed Abdullah, a former State Department fellow who has lived in the Middle East for much of his life, compares its usage to “the whole nigga vs. nigger thing [in the United States]” – except backwards. Rather than a racial slur becoming an empowering term when used by the group it marginalized, the once-positive term samara has become one of many slurs against blacks.
Being harassed on the street because of one’s skin color is a common phenomenon for black Africans in Cairo. Gissella Montenegro, a senior economics and political science double major at Fordham University, studied abroad in Cairo for a year and speaks about an incident she’ll never forget. While walking down the street with two friends, one Sudanese and one Caucasian American, a passerby yelled out a comment. Her Sudanese friend seemed disturbed and when eventually convinced to translate it, he said, “The man yelled, ‘Hey monkey, why are you walking down the street with two gazelles?’”
“I was just shocked,” said Montenegro. “I didn’t know how to respond.”
As darker skin has become stigmatized, lighter skin has become more desirable. White wedding dresses, not traditional in Egypt, have become increasingly popular, and pale-skinned models and even blondes fill advertisements for beauty. Despite a host of side effects, including skin blistering, itching, burning, discoloration, kidney failure and skin cancer, skin lightening or skin bleaching creams line the shelves of pharmacies and beauty stores. The ads for these products are telling: commercials for “Fair and Lovely,” the most popular of the creams, a female is unsuccessful in her job – until the cream makes her skin several shades lighter.
Racism in Egypt is complicated by more factors than simply skin color. Abdullah views the issue on a spectrum: “There are degrees of [racism], from bad service to the refugee crisis.”
The degree to which a person experiences racism can depend upon many factors, including nationality, one’s perceived economic status and gender. Aneesah Akbar Uqdah, a student at Bryn Mawr College, found gender an extremely important factor in her experience in Egypt and was sexually harassed and even assaulted in Cairo.
“Many men thought they could take advantage of me because I was a BLACK female,” she wrote in an email. “One night I went to the pyramids to ride horses, and one of the owners tried to persuade me to have sex with him because, ‘Black women are the best in bed. I once fucked this Asian woman. But black women are the best. Do you want to give me some?’”
Nationality and the perceived economic status that accompany certain nationalities (poorer or richer) were other factors that contributed to one’s experience in Cairo. Many African-American students studying in Cairo felt that the racism directed at them was not as bad as the racism directed at African refugees, because they were American.
As an African-American, Abdullah often was forced to provide identification or had to argue with club bouncers in order to be allowed entry into the premises, while Egyptian or white students walked by with ease. Yet he did not experience the physical violence or constant harassment that his African friend Boris experienced.
“Boris got it way worse than I did. He was from Africa, Cote d’Ivoire. Cab drivers, police, everyone treated him horribly, everywhere.” Abdullah attributed this difference to class. Americans in Egypt are assumed to be wealthy. As a university official told him, ”They see money in Egypt for everything.”..."
" Racism in Egypt is not discussed openly, at least not when it comes to Egyptians’ own racism. This has been attributed by some to the emphasis in higher education on Western-style education among the wealthy. The most prestigious institution of higher education in Egypt is the American University in Cairo. All courses are taught in English, and most sociology courses discussing race focus on racism in its historical context – mainly the history of slavery and racism in the United States. Because of this, racism is seen as exclusively occurring between blacks and whites.
Kerry McIntosh, a security studies major at Georgetown University noticed this tendency when she was studying abroad at AUC. During a race discussion in a course called Social Problems of the Middle East, Egyptian students were eager to discuss racism in the United States between whites and blacks. Yet when it came to their own country, both the professor and the students agreed that “there is no racism in Egypt.”
Monsurat Ottun, a human development major at Boston College, generalizes this phenomenon to include most countries outside the United States. In her experience, people in other countries feel that if one is not white and is not discriminating against a black person as a white person, then he is not considered racist.
The silence within Egypt regarding Egyptian or Arab racism against blacks is exacerbated by a silence outside of Egypt. Some fear the consequences of accusing any Arabs or Muslims – groups that are themselves marginalized – of racism.
In the United States particularly, where Arabs and Muslims experience racial profiling and discrimination, Arab racism is also difficult to bring up.
Ithaca College Associate Professor of Politics Peyi Soyinka-Airewele describes the phenomenon as “strategic amnesia.” Different standards are applied to different situations based on political or social considerations.
Issues met with strategic amnesia are by nature difficult to talk about.
“Liberals get mad at you, blacks get mad at you, Arabs get mad at you. It disturbs the binary,” says Soyinka-Airewele. “Yet human rights is not divided. They play a game where we can’t criticize the Arab world because they are under siege.”
But regardless of anxiety in the United States and denial in Egypt, Egypt’s place as a leader both in Africa and the Arab world makes addressing racism all the more significant.
“The hardest part about racism is admitting it exists,” said Ottun. “Once admitted steps can be taken to discuss the forms in which it exists.”"
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Okay I'm seeing people keep posting articles but for what purpose? I can find many for the UK and America. What's the point? Are you attempting to say that it's worse than Egypt than it is in for example America or Europe?
Posts: 89 | Registered: Mar 2009
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Quoted: both the professor and the students agreed that “there is no racism in Egypt.”
If i had a £1 for everytime i heard that!
Great post Dalia
Dzosser - I am not trying to scare her from going to Egypt i love the place but we do have to be honest about it. Some Egyptains i feel *do have a problem* with admitting there are problems in their society. acism being one of them.
I have a good Egyptain couple who are my friends here in the UK. The wife is black and she encountered lots of racism growing up in school in Cairo. Unless things have really changed since then, which i doubt, then i imagine it still exists - unfortunely.
Back to Honeybee (liked your name before better , must admit though i thought you were male ) Go there and enjoy it, there are many wonderful things in Egypt including people. Hopefully you will not encounter any problems - if you do just learn a few choice Arabic words to throw back!
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Yeah, sure it must be encouraging to go and study at AUC now! At the same time it makes me wonder: why Cairo???
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by happybunny: Quoted: both the professor and the students agreed that “there is no racism in Egypt.”
If i had a £1 for everytime i heard that!
Great post Dalia
Dzosser - I am not trying to scare her from going to Egypt i love the place but we do have to be honest about it. Some Egyptains i feel *do have a problem* with admitting there are problems in their society. acism being one of them.
I have a good Egyptain couple who are my friends here in the UK. The wife is black and she encountered lots of racism growing up in school in Cairo. Unless things have really changed since then, which i doubt, then i imagine it still exists - unfortunely.
Back to Honeybee (liked your name before better , must admit though i thought you were male ) Go there and enjoy it, there are many wonderful things in Egypt including people. Hopefully you will not encounter any problems - if you do just learn a few choice Arabic words to throw back!
Good luck
I liked NoBullCrap, too, but ppl keep thinking I'm a man, LOL. Anyway, this is what I'm getting at... I'm not African/African American. I was born in American, but my family are mixed people so I don't look like them. I think it was Tigerlily who said that there's racism everywhere, which I agree with. Even in black countries there's some racist mentalities towards the dark blacks. In this thread, people are giving the impression that racism in Egypt is worse than it is in America/Uk or wherever else. God knows the millions of crap I've read on the internet from racist Americans about Obama.
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Yeah, sure it must be encouraging to go and study at AUC now! At the same time it makes me wonder: why Cairo???
I'm not sure what you mean, but why not Cairo? I've had family who lived there, I've always been fascinated about Egypt's history (and no I'm not into that Afrocentric crap, lol) and when I visited there, I loved it so much.
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Honeybee, please don't be misled by some foreigners that know nothing about my country, this is a copy and paste issue of articles found on any old daily paper in the world, you could be Korean and stabbed in the NY subway and make the headlines on a local paper, or Puerto Rican mugged in a parking lot in Montreal, or a Turk shot in Hamburg by a neo nazi...nonesense and mere crap. If you want I can post tons of stories on how black and dark skinned foreigners and muslims are treated in the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark..they're sneered at and scrutinized from school days and onwards in life.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Now I have to say HOLDDDD ON DZOSSER because no one stated at any time that you could compare this kind of racism to racism in other parts of the world.
Please check my initial posting.
You know these copy & paste articles I posted give you a pretty good idea of what's going on in Egypt in regards to the issue but it seems to me that you haven't even read through at least one paragraph.
And if I would have posted just links to websites you wouldn't have clicked on it either because you are simply not interested to know about racism in Egypt.
But remember "The hardest part about racism is admitting it exists".
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Honeybee: Okay I'm seeing people keep posting articles but for what purpose? I can find many for the UK and America. What's the point? Are you attempting to say that it's worse than Egypt than it is in for example America or Europe?
Hm if I remember correctly you opened the thread to ask:
"Is there racism in Egypt? Will I fit in?"
After all it seems to me - since you visited already Egypt and experienced how people reacted on your looks - that you are actually quite aware of the situation.
IMHO please update us after several months about your encounters in Egypt. It should be an interesting read.
To all, I think that blondes have it really tough in Egypt. They get the most harassment - even the fake ones çause many times Egyptian guys can't tell the difference!!
As some of you know I stayed with an Egyptian family when I first arrived in Egypt and we went to a holiday area close to Ismailiya where my guestmother had a summer job. Anyway I - as a nanny for the children - was not allowed to go during the day out of the rented appartment not for playing not to the pool. When I asked why not my guest mom simply replied that their father didn't want their children to become 'more darker'. So every evening we set off to the pool - and "Please children - just swim in the shaded area!!". Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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OK if it makes you feel happy, we kick blacks around in Egypt all day long, whatever.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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in between Feb 2008 to Feb 2009 30+ African migrants were KILLED by Egyptian border troops . Mind you many more 'just' got wounded and these articles I usually didn't collect. God only knows if my account is accurate; most likely the number is higher.
Some of these poor people were even shot in the head! Execution style!!
Now you tell me how much is a life of a Sudanese or Eritrean person worth for an Egyptian????
Good night everyone.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Yeah, sure it must be encouraging to go and study at AUC now! At the same time it makes me wonder: why Cairo???
I'm not sure what you mean, but why not Cairo? I've had family who lived there, I've always been fascinated about Egypt's history (and no I'm not into that Afrocentric crap, lol) and when I visited there, I loved it so much.
I mean..after all that 'encouraging' articles, perhaps it should make you a bit scared! But because you have had family living there, they probably could inform you more realistic.
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quote:Originally posted by Honeybee: Okay I'm seeing people keep posting articles but for what purpose? I can find many for the UK and America. What's the point? Are you attempting to say that it's worse than Egypt than it is in for example America or Europe?
Hm if I remember correctly you opened the thread to ask:
"Is there racism in Egypt? Will I fit in?"
After all it seems to me - since you visited already Egypt and experienced how people reacted on your looks - that you are actually quite aware of the situation.
IMHO please update us after several months about your encounters in Egypt. It should be an interesting read.
To all, I think that blondes have it really tough in Egypt. They get the most harassment - even the fake ones çause many times Egyptian guys can't tell the difference!!
As some of you know I stayed with an Egyptian family when I first arrived in Egypt and we went to a holiday area close to Ismailiya where my guestmother had a summer job. Anyway I - as a nanny for the children - was not allowed to go during the day out of the rented appartment not for playing not to the pool. When I asked why not my guest mom simply replied that their father didn't want their children to become 'more darker'. So every evening we set off to the pool - and "Please children - just swim in the shaded area!!".
What I meant to say is that with all of these postings of stories, it makes it appear really bad and worse than the west which is hard to believe.
"IMHO please update us after several months about your encounters in Egypt. It should be an interesting read." Your sarcasm is not necessary and disrespectful either, so you need to keep that to yourself. I'm simply asking for knowledge.
Anyway, in my family, they hate being in the sun because they don't want to get darker either. Growing up, my mother never wanted to me to stay in the sun and neither did she (and my mother is fair-skinned). It's not a matter of racism but what they perceive to be attractive.
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You got through the trouble to pin point incidents on the Israeli-Egyptian borders ! Honeybee...stay home and don't try coming into this country of mine..they'll shoot you between the eyes. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Yeah, sure it must be encouraging to go and study at AUC now! At the same time it makes me wonder: why Cairo???
I'm not sure what you mean, but why not Cairo? I've had family who lived there, I've always been fascinated about Egypt's history (and no I'm not into that Afrocentric crap, lol) and when I visited there, I loved it so much.
I mean..after all that 'encouraging' articles, perhaps it should make you a bit scared! But because you have had family living there, they probably could inform you more realistic.
Well in the USA and in the UK, I know of much worse things that happened on a regular basis to blacks, arabs, hispanics, etc... and neither of them are running away from these countries. So why should that deter me from going to Cairo? My family who were there passed for Egyptian so didn't have any problems.
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: You got through the trouble to pin point incidents on the Israeli-Egyptian borders ! Honeybee...stay home and don't try coming into this country of mine..they'll shoot you between the eyes.
Oh well it looks like these killings don't mean anything to you.
And yes I collected all the data because I believe it's a horrendous crime what's happening on your borders, Dzosser. But it seems you don't wanna hear about that either.
Now tell me if instead of darkskinned African migrants some pretty fairskinned Russian women would run towards Israeli territory - would the Egyptians shoot them???
I am waiting for your fancy answer!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Of course they mean something to me, but it also happens in the west. How many white supremesist groups still exists in the US, including in my state (many still exist in Europe, also in Europe). Not so long ago, they burned down a predominantly black church. I get what you're saying though. Thanks.
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Anything crossing the border will be shot..we're NOT and I repeat NOT supposed to wait for the Ukranian Blonde to show us her tits..that's national security with our beloved Israeli neighbours. If anything lingers in that zone IT SHALL BE SHOT..Berlin wall style. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Yeah, sure it must be encouraging to go and study at AUC now! At the same time it makes me wonder: why Cairo???
I'm not sure what you mean, but why not Cairo? I've had family who lived there, I've always been fascinated about Egypt's history (and no I'm not into that Afrocentric crap, lol) and when I visited there, I loved it so much.
I mean..after all that 'encouraging' articles, perhaps it should make you a bit scared! But because you have had family living there, they probably could inform you more realistic.
Well in the USA and in the UK, I know of much worse things that happened on a regular basis to blacks, arabs, hispanics, etc... and neither of them are running away from these countries. So why should that deter me from going to Cairo? My family who were there passed for Egyptian so didn't have any problems.
Well, I'm from an area where it is a bit more easy going, so the stories about how bad Europe is, are also not counting for the whole society of Europe. Think it is the same in Egypt. Of course there will be people having an opinion about you, only because of the colour, but such people are everywhere. The most important is that legal rights, in my opinion. As soon as a gouvernment has no supporting regulations, but the opposite, what is there to expect? We have had a coloured student from Mauretania here, he even married an Egyptian wife, so skincolour wasn't an issue in his case. He never complained about that, as far as I know...
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Anything crossing the border will be shot..we're NOT and I repeat NOT supposed to wait for the Ukranian Blonde to show us her tits..that's national security with our beloved Israeli neighbours. If anything lingers in that zone IT SHALL BE SHOT..Berlin wall style.
LOL@Dzo I know serious issue, but you made me smile.
But Tiger is right to point out what she has read and seen. I still have nightmares about the shootings of the Sudaness refugees, I saw it on TV
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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. The Sudanese people i knew were both Christain and Muslim and seemed to get on quite well even with some living together.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
You have ignorant people EVERYWHERE!
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