posted
I recently seperated with my Egyptian boyfriend. Over the past few months we have tried to find a way to make 'us' work... but it seemed our differences were too much for us in the end. We parted on good terms; which believe me doesn't make it any easier, if anything it makes it that bit harder, because he is a great guy, and we still have so much admiration and respect for each other.
I guess I was the one that prevented it from going any further. The biggest 'compromise' I would have to make to be with this man, would change my life forever (to eventually convert to Islam). This guy is certainly worth converting for, but neither of us thought it would be a successful relationship if I only converted to please him and be with him - instead of being lead to the faith of my own accord - this could cause potential 'clashes' in the future.
It made me wonder can the East and West ever find a happy medium, or are we so different - almost from different worlds. I feel as though it is such a shame. I respect people who believe so passionately about something they devote their lives to it (either those born into, because it is all they know, and particularly those who are lead to it). However in the frame of mind I am in now, I often wonder if religion actually puts up more divides then it should. As we evolve and adapt to an ever changing world - it sometimes seems that Relgions (or perhaps mans interpretation of religion) hasn't evolved and adapted at all.
Anyway I feel as though I am writing a 'thesis' here. I basically just want to know how do you make this sort of thing work. I would be curious to hear from people from completely different backgrounds (West and East) who defied the odds and have stayed together, and from Western woman in particular, who made the change to be with their man, and how it has affected and changed their lives.
I would also be curious to know of any Egyptian men (or Woman), converted from the Islamic faith to to another religion, so they could be with someone.
Posts: 5 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I wish I could help you, but I'm right at the beginning of a relationship with an Egyptian man, and am wondering these same things already. I agree with your wondering about the differences between East and West, perhaps we shouldn't let religions get in the way, love should conquer all, but I don't know how it can - it seems the odds may be against it, but we have to try surely? I would welcome knowing more from others who have overcome the odds also.
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I am not with an Egytian man and I have personally chosen to stay away from a marriage with an Egyptian man specifically because of the differences and difficulties I envisage there would be... this is not to say it can't work, I'm sure it can.
My main reason for answering your post is to commend you (and your ex boyfriend) for coming to the decision that you would not convert to Islam to please him or make a marriage work! Islam is Submission to Allah and not Submission to the wishes of boyfriends/girlfriends/families/friends etc and it is a way of life (if followed properly) which can enhance your life bringing you much peace and joy (Let's hear the haters!)
I would encourage you to read what you can about Islam and see if you can come to Allah from your own will. If you can - good, if you can't then it is better than converting to something you do not believe in and as you said causing a potential future clash.
Good luck and I hope that you receieve some good advice Posts: 815 | From: London and the other | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
The biggest problems in any marriage and especially ours come from lack of respect and love, impatience, blaming and all the other human imperfections that can haunt any marriage. And from blaming something to religion or culture where it really is a lack of understanding each other and letting go of impossible expectations, enjoying what is. And some people are just not the marrying kind, Egyptian or whatever or have personalityflaws or disorders that are impossible to live with. Naive expectations can hurt alot as is ignoring you're intuition. I believe it is a wise thing to call it quits if you both decide that you can't live with the changes you are asked to make. You shouldn't. Marriage should add something to you're life, not take something.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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i understand what you are going through but my advice is that religion differences will always be in the way. i liked someone who was really nice in all aspects and we get along nicely but whenever we talk about religion we start fighting and he tried to convert but the problem was i did not want him to convert for me i want him to do it for himself but when we try to discuss religion we fight again so i stopped seen him and we went our seprate ways then two years later i bumped in to him in the street and he told me that he has converted because he use to discuss the religion with his friend and i asked him you did not do it for me he said no, he never heard from me. We are not together but he is still in my religion. i know there are alot of people who married and living happily with someone who differ in thier religion but i don't think i can do that. So it might work for some but only you can tell if it will work for you.
Posts: 816 | From: london | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
what red flag?? Faith is faith you believe something all your life and your loved one think the opposite, how iam going to teach my kids if the father does not believe the same things. i have friends with all sorts of religions i respect theirs they respect mine i don't have to bring children with them???in fact my best friend does not follow my religion but we still very close and you tell her iam intolerance she will laugh and say hell no because we always see people trying to convert each other, Christian trying to convert Muslims and Muslims trying to convert him at the end they both hate each other guts because of their differences I don’t get involve because I know human nature . So don’t tell me about intolerance or flags!!!! It is people choice to believe what they want but it is my choice to be with someone share the same faith as me.
Posts: 816 | From: london | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Sarah, you are completely entitled to whatever partner, yellow, green, atheist, sex etcetera you want. I was not responding to you, in fact we pressed the button almost the same time I guess. If it will make you more comfortable you should marry someone within you're own religion. But don't underestimate the differences within you're religion you can encounter. I would not want my dh, while we are having a mixed relationship, forbid my kids to play with hindus, muslims or whatever religion their friends may have or degrade them for it. And for another thing. If someone is exclusive in his/her religion they maybe rulebound in other things you can severely clash on. Where my dh and I are from the same faith we have completely different worlds, languages, songs, tales to express ourselves in. I believe for the better of our children who have a world to inherit from the both of us, if you let the both of you express yourselfs. I am glad I have the same religion since it is easier for me to see where beloved dh tries to hide behind his religion, but I know the trick already so I can easily adapt to culture for that matter.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by coeur cassé: I recently seperated with my Egyptian boyfriend. Over the past few months we have tried to find a way to make 'us' work... but it seemed our differences were too much for us in the end. We parted on good terms; which believe me doesn't make it any easier, if anything it makes it that bit harder, because he is a great guy, and we still have so much admiration and respect for each other.
I guess I was the one that prevented it from going any further. The biggest 'compromise' I would have to make to be with this man, would change my life forever (to eventually convert to Islam). This guy is certainly worth converting for, but neither of us thought it would be a successful relationship if I only converted to please him and be with him - instead of being lead to the faith of my own accord - this could cause potential 'clashes' in the future.
It made me wonder can the East and West ever find a happy medium, or are we so different - almost from different worlds. I feel as though it is such a shame. I respect people who believe so passionately about something they devote their lives to it (either those born into, because it is all they know, and particularly those who are lead to it). However in the frame of mind I am in now, I often wonder if religion actually puts up more divides then it should. As we evolve and adapt to an ever changing world - it sometimes seems that Relgions (or perhaps mans interpretation of religion) hasn't evolved and adapted at all.
Anyway I feel as though I am writing a 'thesis' here. I basically just want to know how do you make this sort of thing work. I would be curious to hear from people from completely different backgrounds (West and East) who defied the odds and have stayed together, and from Western woman in particular, who made the change to be with their man, and how it has affected and changed their lives.
I would also be curious to know of any Egyptian men (or Woman), converted from the Islamic faith to to another religion, so they could be with someone.
Hi, CC (your name makes me sad). Please don't convert to Islam just for a man. Your religion is a very personal thing, best to do it only for yourself.
That being said, I personally think it's more about cultural differences that can make for a bumpy relationship. It takes a lot of communication, and the issues still come up.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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fair enough as i said, people are different some can live with these differences some can't but if you want to stick to your faith it does not make you intolerance. London is multi culture society you can see more religions and race than any city and i love it because i love to know about different cultures.
Posts: 816 | From: london | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
We have had endless discussions about how to make this work... always in the hope that a solution would appear, but I think deep down we both knew the inevitable. We put that off for as long as we could.
I understand that Muslim Men (but not Woman?)can marry someone outside of their religion - as long as they are people of the book? This was a plausible option for us to stay together, however, again problems would arise if in the future we decided to have children - how would we choose to bring them up. This could seriously mess them up. So for the sake of the children that we will never have, we also decided that this was a lost cause. Now that's thinking ahead!!
I agree that people should not convert to a religion, to simply be able to be with someone they love (I suspect that this is a mistake that many people have made, that will have eventually ended in tears). They should do this for themselves, because it is what they truly believe in.
I admit that I had a lot of preconceived notions about the Islamic religion before I met this man. We have had endless debates / discussions about what this religion entails, and some of the misunderstandings I and many other Westerners have (as does the East have about the West). I find myself defending this religion more and more. Not to the point that I will convert (although you never know) but to the point where I will educate myself more about it.
I think that coming from a environment that is not so structured, and more liberal in their ideas and action as the western world is - then submitting to a way of life so very different to what you are used to - would no doubt be a massive life change for anyone who has done it. Which is why you must be sure that this is the path you want to follow.
But for now it makes me terribly sad, because we truly loved and cared for each other (still do). We would have made a very good team. It takes a lot to walk away from someone that you care deeply about. It's not the nicest feeling in the world.
Posts: 5 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I think Islam allow man to marry christian women. There is no problem in that. But If You are really in love with each other, Religion will not be an obstacle. But, The only Obstacle will be the stupid customs and tardition.
However,By your patience, you will overcome Them all.
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I couldn't be with anyone who follows an organised religion. Their beliefs would make it impossible to agree on much. Interestingly, it seems that those of different faiths often clash too. So much for tolerance. Seems to me that most religions either want to convert or dismiss. Religion is woven into the fabric of everyday life, in countries like Egypt. Few have the courage to be shunned or excluded by the community, for mere love.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I have been married to my Egyptian Husband for 7 years and we are of different religions. My husband has never put pressure on me to convert. We celebrate both religious festivals, ie Ramadan/Christmas etc. I prepare all the lovely Ramadan foods but don't fast but enjoy all the fun and happiness. My husband is quite devoted, he prays 5 times a day, won't touch meat that hasn't been killed in a Halal way and tries to live his life according to his religion. I believe that my husbands religion is a very positive thing and guides him into being a good, kind person and for that reason I am very supportive of it.
He isn't the type that prays five times a day but then lacks compassion and kindness during his everyday life. I have witnessed this type of behaviour in many religions before anyone comments, I used to have a 'friend' that was a devote Christian and would attend Church every Sunday, something that it very uncommon in the young in the UK. However, the rest of the time she could be very unkind about others and lack consideration for peoples feelings.
Couer casse - I think you are absolutely right not to convert for the sake of your boyfriend. This is very wrong, you should only convert if it is something that you truly believe in your heart otherwise the Shahada is meaningless. I am interested in converting to Islam and have been reading about it for several years now. Nobody has pressurised me however I have been influenced by seeing Muslims following Islam in the way it should be practised and not in a distorted interpretation.
I am sorry to hear that you are feeling sad, it take a lot of courage to walk away even though your heart is telling you something different. Good luck always
Posts: 51 | From: England | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I think you were right to break it off for the reasons you state in both your posts. I am a Christian married to an Egyptian and although there is no pressure on me to convert it is somehting my husband dearly wants to happen but he wants it to be because I want it for myself not for him. A Muslim man can marry a God fearing women of the book (Jew or Christian) but the children have to be brought up in their fathers faith. As we never intended to have children together this was not a difficulty we had to face. I know of another lady in this position and she did eventually convert after 15 years of marriage and I admire her very much for that because it shows it was a decision from her heart. But her and her husband never had any children so again that extra pressure was not there. So for you in your situation, expecting to have children and their faith being an issue I think you made the only decision you can. It takes great courage. big hug
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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In my experience the most important aspect of a successful intermarriage is an open mind. And I mean open to literally everything. A full awareness that even the smallest things and events can be understood in such a completely different manner between the same couple. This is the essential ingredient for any happiness, especially between people who are so culturally diverse.
At the same time I have tried to focus on also the aspects where we are similar. And to my surprise I have discovered that there are many sides to his mentality that correspond more to my culture than other Western ones. So it is very important to not always think immediately that your mindsets will differ on certain issues, but rather relish in how his thinking or your thinking can enrich your vision and understanding and who knows maybe your ideas aren't that different. They are only constructed in another costume and perhaps there have been language barriers preventing you from reaching a full understanding of each other's opinions.
It is also very important to have a great tolerance level for discussions over the smallest things. "Common sense" is not something natural or biologically installed. It is a product of that culture and society in which people are brought up. So my advice is mostly: Understand that your "common sense" is different from his and try to understand his point of view, as he should understand yours. And if that doesn't work then divorce.
Posts: 2184 | Registered: Oct 2005
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