i met an Egyptian guy online ...we did chat and talk for long time and i really like him so much...he invited me to Egypt,i will stay with him there and we planned to get married there...but i am little nervous to get married with just after i meet him there..??,and i d like to know how Egyptians think about western women...?,please give me your advice...?hope to hear from you soon,thank you Shana
Answer
Dear Shana,
Thanks for your question - Let me tell you right up front though that EVERYTHING I am going to say here is going to be negative. If you are hoping someone will blow wind up your skirt and tell you everything will be OK if you come and marry this man you've never met in person, go somewhere else. OK?
First, they are charming, aren't they? Truth be told, that is why I am living here. I actually met one in person when I was on holiday and was swept off my feet and thought I was going to marry him. WRONG! First off, he was already married. That's the sort of thing they rarely mention, if they are married, and since in their religion they can get away with being married to up to 4 wives, they don't need to tell you that. He didn't, but I've heard of guys that introduce their prospective wife to the first wife and tell her the wife is his sister. He and the wife can speak a mile a minute in Arabic and the unsuspecting new wife has no idea what is being said. You need to understand that many first wives would go along with something like this for two reasons - 1) because he told her to and 2) because she knows in the end her life will be greatly improved as well if he takes on a 2nd foreign wife with money - or at least with money in their eyes.
Even if he isn't married yet, let me say that the 3 reasons he was on line searching for a girlfriend (and I am quite certain he found you, you didn't find him - right?) is because in the lower classes (Egypt is quite "class" conscious), the men are convinced that all they have to do to improve their life by getting to move OUT of Egypt is marry a woman from America, England, or some other western country. If they are married, he thinks her country will welcome him in. NOT! I don't know where you are from, but America is not passing out visas like candy to every Egyptian boy that manages to sweep an American girl/woman off her feet. The Embassy sees it all the time and they know better. So, if he can marry you, he thinks he can have 1) an automatic citizenship in a new and wonderful country, 2) money (because you are rich - compared to him you are rich, if you can EVEN consider flying to Egypt to meet him), and finally 3) sex is considered easy pickings with a western woman. I don't know how old he is, but he's probably not getting much sex with the Egyptian women here (even if he's married - probably because he's not very good at sex since no one will talk about it here in the realm of technique and in an effort to learn anything, because after all they are "Egyptian men" and they are the best - NOT!, and more if he is of a medium to low class, then if he is married, his wife probably had FGM done to her as a girl and she wouldn't know what good sex was anyway, so there is no real demand for these men to get better at something they think they are great at). If he is not married, unless he is hanging around with Egyptian girls that they would label as prostitutes, he is not having sex. Egyptian girls are not easy by any stretch.
What more should I say - I guess that it is silly to come and marry someone you only know off the Internet. Since you hopefully now understand that it could be years before he would be issued a visa, if they ever issue him a visa to move to America, then if you really love him, you better be ready to make your new life in Egypt. Has that crossed your mind yet? Now, the first time you come, it will be all so exotic and romantic here - no matter what, but at some point you have to take off the rose colored glasses and see what your life will really be like if you do move here. Are you ready to live in this climate? Are you ready to be told you can't be on the computer alone anymore? Because you know he isn't going to trust you after you began a relationship with him on the computer probably. Are you ready to be this far away from any family or support system you have in place now? Most women in western countries would be shocked at the way the men they meet on line live. I don't know what class he is, but it wouldn't surprise me if he lives in a village like Tanta and may have even met you by using an Internet Cafe. He might have a computer in his home and maybe you've seen via webcam a room in his house. You'll never know the whole story until you stay in that house for month. If you aren't convinced yet to say "thanks for everything and good-bye" to this man/boy, come and spend no less than a month living with his mother and see how you like that. The reality of it is that you will never live better than his mother, unless you are paying for it, and even if you are, he might later insist that his mother should enjoy some of the modern conveniences that you enjoy. Egyptian men and their mothers share a bond like nothing I've ever seen in America. Not always, but I've seen boys give their mothers gold bracelets and other jewelry when there was a little extra money available, and the wife got nothing. Are you OK to have to play second fiddle to his mother? Is he the oldest boy? The oldest has more responsibility towards his parents too when they get old. Don't be surprised by that later on if you keep going forward with this. Also, IF you marry, move to America and have children, it is very common that the man decides when the children are about 11 or 12 that it is time to move back to the land of morality and a place where they can bring up their children right. Of course you would be welcome to come but you would have very little say about whether it was going to happen or not.
I'm sorry I took SUCH a negative approach to this, but having lived here for over 10 years, I've seen it happen to so many women and the times it works out are rare - significantly more rare when the meeting was on the Internet. I do know some successful Western/Egyptian marriages when they met in person due to some common interests or work related meeting, but that is it....and the jury isn't completely in on all of them yet.
If you are still serious about this and IF you want my advise, come to Egypt for no less than 30 days and live with his family (mother in particular) while you are here. If you survive the 30 days and can stand to live in the conditions his mother lives in, then consider getting married. If by some chance they are rich and have maids doing everything for them and they live in a nice part of town, and have club memberships so you can spend the day with him and his mother at the pool swimming all day and doing lunch, maybe this is the life for you. 30 days would give you some idea too if what you do for a living could be done here successfully in the event you want to work. Some very specific professional work can be done here and you could find work, but many jobs done by women in America (secretary, PA, waitress, nurse, etc) would require that you speak Arabic like a first language to get hired on here and many of them don't pay what you would expect.
Like I said, it's possible they are rich and he could give you a comfortable life here in Egypt. If that is true, let him pay for your tickets to Egypt to check it out. Don't you pay for anything. And actually, if he is rich, he should put you up in a hotel instead of having you at the family home, but if they are rich enough then they may have a very large house and there would be plenty of room for you to have a separate bedroom. That probably leads to the most important advise I can give you - don't sleep with him when you meet him. All Egyptian men want sex, but they will loose immediate respect for you if they get sex. I've had some say they even test women by trying to kiss her, and if she kisses them back, she is out of there. So be careful if you really think you want to marry this guy. He could test you, you could fail, and you'd be on your own for the rest of the trip.
Finally, know that there are two kinds of marriage here. If he only says he wants to marry you, he might be trying to be sneaky and do what is known as an ORFI marriage. It is really no more than a legalized way for them to sleep together and have it be OK with the religion. It's a sham marriage and mostly in place so a Muslim man can travel without his wife, take on a girl, ORFI marry her and have sex while he is out of town and have it all be OK in the religion. Saudi's will do it with prostitutes during the summer when they travel, I guess. It's not very respectful or nice. The man has NO legal obligations to you if he is only ORFI married to you. If you were to get pregnant during an ORFI marriage he could walk away and you would have no recourse.
Sorry I rambled on and on and on. I have no idea if you put a private tag on this or not, but I hope you understand and take what I've said to heart. I know they can be charming, but the reality of the situation is that the ones that really are your Arab Prince Charming aren't looking for girls on the Internet any more than they are in America generally. Be careful, be wise and don't rush into anything. And when he says, "are all the fingers on your hand the same?" in an effort to convince you he is different from all the others I've talked about here - tell him "NO, they aren't the same, but they are remarkably similar", and similar enough to step back and take your time while you figure this out.
posted
I am aware that Debbie used to be a member on this forum, I remember her postings.
I decline to judge about her in any kind of form as I don't know her in person.
For me her answer to the woman's question was valid and correct and I hope more foreign ladies in this kind of situation will at least take a look at it and keep Debbie's words in mind.
تيجرليلي
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
When non-citizens break the law in a country the government make a special effort to make life tougher on law-abidding non-citizens.
Posts: 251 | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by getting_hitched_to_USA:
Debbie doesn't have a license to conduct tour operations and I doubt any of her Egyptian employees do either. Debbie doesn't even have a work visa.
Yes she understands the culture but doesn't respect the laws.
YOU doubt? YOU have doubts about something you know NOTHING about and you make up another fantasy about another member thats not even here?
Debbie's business is fully legal and your statement about a work visa shows you really do know NOTHING about having a business here. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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For me her answer to the woman's question was valid and correct and I hope more foreign ladies in this kind of situation will at least take a look at it and keep Debbie's words in mind.
posted
As being an Egyptian I can say that to be honest I agree with some of what Debbie is saying as:
as some of Egyptian guys think that if he can marry you, he thinks he can have 1) an automatic citizenship in a new and wonderful country, 2) money (because you are rich - compared to him you are rich.
Let me say sometning as most of Egyptian guys are working with low salaries jobs and some of them are unemployed so he think that if he have the opportunity to go out of Egypt it will be very good for him,so he thinks in two things ...either to know a western girl and try to use her by inviting her to come to Egypt ..then make some stories to her in order to take some money from her...or to convince her to marry him in order to travel with her...this is only when he is either unemployed or working in Egypt with a low salary...and can't go out of Egypt cos he doesn't have enough money.
But if he is working in Egypt with good salary or he is already out of Egypt working with good salary He will never think in marrying a western girl unless he loves her truely.
I know that most of u think that the only aim for any Egyptian guy to marry any western girl is to get visa to her country ...so I want to ask one question if an Egyptian guy is already out of Egypt and working good but after being married to a western girl if he asked her to leave her country and go to live with him in the country he is working in and she refused to leave her country so he have to go to live with her in her country ...will we consider him also was seeking from his marriage to her to get the visa to be out of Egypt although he is already out before being married?
I also agree with that...if he loves u truely let him pay for your tickets to Egypt to check it out. Don't you pay for anything. And actually, if he is rich, he should put you up in a hotel instead of having you at the family home, but if they are rich enough then they may have a very large house and there would be plenty of room for you to have a separate bedroom.....this is true I think that If he pays for everything during the stay so he is serious...but if he makes stories about money and let u pay ..so I think he is using u to get money from u.
Then....
That probably leads to the most important advise I can give you - don't sleep with him when you meet him. All Egyptian men want sex, but they will loose immediate respect for you if they get sex. ....this is true
if he asked for making sex with her from the first day before marriage... so I think this relation for him is based on lust...but if he asked that sex will be only after he marry her ..so for him the relation is based on love and settlement.....this is only my opinion.
also I agree that if he asked to have the marriage only as Orfi ... so he is seeking only to have a paper to be free to make sex with her ..and most of the ones who are insisting on haveing the marriage only in Orfi are refusing to make it legal in MOJ in order to be free. But If he asked to have the marriage in MOJ so he is serious in the relationship.again this is only my opinion.
I agree also that if the guy refuse to let the girl to see any of his family ..so maybe he is liying to the girl by telling her that the family know about this marriage ....But if he is true he will let her see his family and specially his mother and sit with her...cos in Egypt the most important person in marriage for Egyptian guys is the mother ....if she accepts the western girl ..this will be ok ..but if she refuses her... the marriage will be a prob.
what I'm trying to say is not all the Egyptian guys who are married to western girls are married them only to go out of Egypt...some of them sekking this and others no.
I was trying only to give my point of view and what I really think.. maybe some of u will agree with me and some won't.
posted
Snerk, even My guy tried the "5 fingers on the hand" schtick. That is when I pointed out that the hand when held that way, looks like the name of Allah.
He hasn't brought it up since.
Posts: 1071 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by getting_hitched_to_USA:
Debbie doesn't have a license to conduct tour operations and I doubt any of her Egyptian employees do either. Debbie doesn't even have a work visa.
Yes she understands the culture but doesn't respect the laws.
YOU doubt? YOU have doubts about something you know NOTHING about and you make up another fantasy about another member thats not even here?
Debbie's business is fully legal and your statement about a work visa shows you really do know NOTHING about having a business here.
Debbie ever show her client's a license?
Do you know what it takes to earn a tourism license?
Keep in mind Jane is also conducting illegal tours in luxor because she doesn't have a license either.
A work visa is required if someone she was employing actually had a tourism license. None of Debbie's employees have a tourism license because none of them have a college degree, which is required for a tourism license.
You yourself like Jane weren't sure of whether a urfi marriage had legal merits, neither of you two are legally married outside of Egypt.
Jane doesn't even have a business visa, all her capital is in her husband's name.
All three, you, jane and debbie are on a tourism visa. Which the terms of that type, tourism, is changing.
Ayisha you see the end coming and you are reacting because you are scared. Due to the fact that you cannot meet more stringent criteria to stay in Egypt for the long hual.
Posts: 251 | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
So bottom line if the Egyptian man is rich it'll be ok but not if he is poor. That's disgusting.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: So bottom line if the Egyptian man is rich it'll be ok but not if he is poor. That's disgusting.
No actually a rich Egyptian guy would be the jackpot for any Western woman because:
a) he's not looking for a visa as he can afford to travel by himself all around the world;
b) he's not out for money because he got enough and can support himself, you and insha'allah the children which will come along (he's definitely coming from the upper middle or upper class and by the time you meet him he most likely established himself already);
c) he's not desperate in having sex with you because he could afford to have paid sex (okay not every guy links up with hookers but you get my point );
and I think the most important point is here
d) if he decides he wants to marry you - a Western woman Muslim convert or not - and marry outside of his own culture that's TRUE love and commitment IMHO (I assume if this happens he got the blessing of his family). Remember these people are not desperate because they are financially secured and traditionally his parents just would love to see him getting married to a true Egyptian Muslima.
This man will not be an opportunist and if he's husband material, loving and committed, surely a guy like this is a keeper. And believe me they are hard to find. Yes there are enough young or not so young rich Egyptian men out there but most of them see foreign women as flings, someone to have fun with. They don't want to give commitment to a Western woman, deep down inside they just wanna get happy with a girl from their own country.
That's my general opinion which is based on personal observation and of course some others will agree or might will not agree with me.
تيجرليلي
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Look, not all Egyptian Men are this way. The majority of you women, Im sorry to say, you bagged men from the ghetto! I mean you might as well have just driven into South Centrtal and picked up some guy with 4 baby mommas, noc ar and 50 relatives all living in the same 2 bedroom flat! You think because they are Egyptian that they are all Don Juan's?!
Usually the doods you snag online and get married to right away are only out for the $$$. I mean, why wouold a 20 year old man want a 50 yr old lady? COME ON! Then you come here and complain he is making your life hell! They are in need of a depserate women who are willing to marry the first man who will give them a piece because smart classy women theyre own ages dont want them!
The men I hang with are my own age and in fact I am not the one whose mouth these words came from...it came from THEIRS! Most of the time, they have wives back in Egypt and she sends him off to USA to snag a hag and send her home the dough. It's a big scam right now. Again, words that didn't come from my own mouth, but I have seen it go down. I know many women like yall on here who know are split with that man cuz' they recently found out they had families back home!
My ex even did this. Left a perfectly wonderful young wife and daughter for a disgusting old pig...and when I asked him about it last week he told me that he had to save his business and now his family is in the process of convincing his dumb butt to come back to me but I wont take him! Even his brother was 20 when he married a fat 42 yr old lady and 3 months ago I seen him cruisin' down the street with a young hot chick! But I am not the type to tell on him.
It's all a scam. And when I tell you ladies this you get all huffy and say Im lying but yet, you still stay on here crying about their BS and try to tell every young women that her man will do the same.
You dont see the Egyptian men who have good salaries in Egypt, or come from high class families and such hopping online and snagging these stupid old cows do you? NO! And why? Because they can hold their own and have no need to use a woman, thats why.
Jeezes get it thru your heads!
9 times out of 10, if you see a gril who is young and pretty and she met an Egyptian man who is her age and has his own, you don't need to warn her of anything because they are most likely for real. Save the warnings for the women who come here who are old, divorced and quite unattractive and asking advice about the Egyptian man who they met online and is young enough to be her own son!
Sorry to be so mean but it's the truth!
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
For those of you who are so "class conscious" as to not even consider dating or marrying a man who is poor, do you believe that heaven is sorted by class. Does it shock you to know that the people you look down on now might just be your bunk buddies in the hearafter? *gasp!!!*
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
" You dont see the Egyptian men who have good salaries in Egypt, or come from high class families and such hopping online and snagging these stupid old **** do you? NO! And why? Because they can hold their own and have no need to use a woman, thats why."
Momma, you hit the nail right on it's head!!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by getting_hitched_to_USA: Debbie ever show her client's a license?
I know Debbie, you dont
quote:Do you know what it takes to earn a tourism license?
yes, lol
quote:Keep in mind Jane is also conducting illegal tours in luxor because she doesn't have a license either.
why did you drag Jane into this? stop trying to change the subject because you have been found lying yet again.
quote:A work visa is required if someone she was employing actually had a tourism license. None of Debbie's employees have a tourism license because none of them have a college degree, which is required for a tourism license.
HAHAHAHA ROFL
quote:You yourself like Jane weren't sure of whether a urfi marriage had legal merits, neither of you two are legally married outside of Egypt.
dont remember inviting you to my wedding sono
quote:Ayisha you see the end coming and you are reacting because you are scared. Due to the fact that you cannot meet more stringent criteria to stay in Egypt for the long hual.
ah yes the end of the world is nigh, they been saying that in Hyde Park for yonks and we're still here. You didnt read the visa thread then? people are still getting visa renewals here without any problems and no one has told the Police or the passport office otherwise, nothing is changing and im still HERE and you're still NOT RELOCATED YET Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: For those of you who are so "class conscious" as to not even consider dating or marrying a man who is poor, do you believe that heaven is sorted by class. Does it shock you to know that the people you look down on now might just be your bunk buddies in the hearafter? *gasp!!!*
yes but you are missing the point.
egyptians are suffering over there...i dont mean like there is a job shortage and such, no...people are actually in lines in a lot of towns for pita bread! people have lots of kids and cant feed them, you have no idea how many people are damn suffering! they are grasping at any way they can to put food in their mouth.
normally i dont care if he is rich or poor...but you are comparing it to western standards. over here we can marry anybody we want, rich poor whatever. there, if u have no money, you cant marry and are forced to deal with living with sexual built up tension for life! fathers wont allow their daughters to marry a man who doesnt have the flat, the car, the job, the gold and the dowry! there are so many expectations on the egyptian male its unreal. it sucks yes, but unfortuntely it is what it is.
and for the 5 fingers of the hand deal...my ex used to do that to..my reply, 'ya they are different, but they bend in the same direction.'
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Well alhumdulilah that I'm not that shallow because if I based my choice in men based on their bank account I would have missed out on the most wonderful, amazing, giving, loving, altruistic man I have ever met!
Are there users out there who are poor looking for a way out? Of course! Are ALL poor men users? Of course not! Are ALL rich men, whether they be Egyptian, Chinese, Italian, American, exempt from being jerks who use women? Of course not!
Seriously the generalization of the OP is just astounding. I don't know her so I'm not familiar with the story but maybe she was screwed by the Egyptian man she fell in love with. I was screwed by an Italian man that I married....and he was rich!!!!
Bottom line for me, generalizations suck. Sure look for the signposts but don't just not consider a person based on their wallet.
Posts: 1808 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2006
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I dont think there will be a problem of any of the class conscious here being bunk buddies up there with any poor people either doodle
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Doodle is right, you can't generalise. My ex earned good money when he worked in the Middle East but unfortunately he also was very good at spending it too!!!!!!!!!!. So end of the day he came home with next to nothing and very quickly he ended up in debt with overdrafts, credit cards, loans etc. Maybe my other half now isn't earning alot but he has no debt and knows the value of money.
Posts: 4476 | From: Scotland | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: For those of you who are so "class conscious" as to not even consider dating or marrying a man who is poor, do you believe that heaven is sorted by class. Does it shock you to know that the people you look down on now might just be your bunk buddies in the hearafter? *gasp!!!*
Does this mean in Egypt or generally? Because being poor in Finland and Egypt is sooo different. I guess I am class conscious then, since I don't think it would work out here in Egypt if I married a man who earns say 300 LE a month (even if I worked how much would I earn, I don't speak much Arabic and as far as I understand foreigners do not get easily work visas as there is almost always an Egyptian who could do the work in question). Yes I know many local people have to get by 1-2 USD per day but well...that's like saying you can never throw away food because there are starving people in the world.
This doesn't mean rich people are any better than poor people, that's obvious, they're not.
I'm far from perfect I admire those who could get by with this amount of money - in Finland I always said money doesn't count - because there it doesn't!!!! You're always taken care of if something happens. Here I have been thinking lately, that if we couldn't have afforded that hospital few weeks ago, our baby would have died. Hospital services cost wayyyyy more than 300 LE. --- no wonder infant mortality is so high in Egypt --- Posts: 758 | From: Finland | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by doodlebug: Well alhumdulilah that I'm not that shallow because if I based my choice in men based on their bank account I would have missed out on the most wonderful, amazing, giving, loving, altruistic man I have ever met!
Are there users out there who are poor looking for a way out? Of course! Are ALL poor men users? Of course not! Are ALL rich men, whether they be Egyptian, Chinese, Italian, American, exempt from being jerks who use women? Of course not!
Seriously the generalization of the OP is just astounding. I don't know her so I'm not familiar with the story but maybe she was screwed by the Egyptian man she fell in love with. I was screwed by an Italian man that I married....and he was rich!!!!
Bottom line for me, generalizations suck. Sure look for the signposts but don't just not consider a person based on their wallet.
and alhumdulilah im not that shallow either! im just not stupid enough to marry a guy who would rather milk a woman for money instead of doing what he needs to do in order to make his own. nobody is generalizing...to do that would be to say that every man is the same. im just speaking the truth here...the economy in egypt is extremely bad and people are going nuts trying to find a way out...even if it means breakinig the heart of an unsuspecting woman that you are going to leave once you achieved your goals.
so actually its not the women opr myself who are being shallow...its actually the men who are.
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I think some people go into relationships, not actually knowing the other's culture or mentality. Assumptions and expectations are made on one side...and it's not easy to fulfill from the other side.
Having said that, one does not need to go to the Middle East to meet a man that needs to marry for the sake of immigration, there are many locally as well, and unfortunately a marriage of convenience does not love make......
And really, you need to know the person [wherever they are from] that you are committing to. NOT doing so, is neurotic.
No Arab man would marry an Arab girl so quickly...there would not be 'dating' - but both families would know/meet each other. The man would (with chaperone most likely), get to talk to the girl, and get to know her....he's not gonna marry just like that - even if she is the most beautiful. So why would he do anything less for a non-arab girl??? And more to the point, why would any woman, expect and accept anything less??
-------------------- رِحْلِة الأَلْف مِيل تَبْدَأ بِخَطْوَة Posts: 385 | From: In my hayati's heart and thoughts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
actually yes arab men and women marry EXTREMELY fast. they dont go thru the whole engagement and dating thing like we do....usually the man meets her, goes to her father or brother for permission, they have an engagement party and less than a year, sometimes a month later, they are married.
the divorce rate there is very high as well.
Posts: 2757 | From: YOU CAN ONLY SEE WHAT I CHOOSE TO SHOW, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE YOU JUST DONT KNOW | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
so far views - all interesting and relative to some degree - have been posted on the rich man who can take care of himself and therefore not using a western woman for profit or gain being a more sincereand wise choice - if anyone got the chance, and the view of the poor man who wants a helping hand up the ladder - and possibly a new life in another land - being the scammer and no good choice. What are your opinions of say a poor man who is a low earner, but hard worker, improving his life by marrying a western woman who helps him financially, then when he gets to the new country, he gets a good job, works hard, and repays what his wife did for him by making a really good job of looking after her, and loving her, since he now has the opportunity to make a decent living? I ask this because many men in the west have married into money, been set up in business, or a good job by the wife or her family, and is rarely criticised openly for achieving such good fortune - so why should ambitious Egyptians be viewed any different from this? What do you think?
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tutandmoane: so far views - all interesting and relative to some degree - have been posted on the rich man who can take care of himself and therefore not using a western woman for profit or gain being a more sincereand wise choice - if anyone got the chance, and the view of the poor man who wants a helping hand up the ladder - and possibly a new life in another land - being the scammer and no good choice. What are your opinions of say a poor man who is a low earner, but hard worker, improving his life by marrying a western woman who helps him financially, then when he gets to the new country, he gets a good job, works hard, and repays what his wife did for him by making a really good job of looking after her, and loving her, since he now has the opportunity to make a decent living? I ask this because many men in the west have married into money, been set up in business, or a good job by the wife or her family, and is rarely criticised openly for achieving such good fortune - so why should ambitious Egyptians be viewed any different from this? What do you think?
Because Egyptian culture is not western/northern culture.
Posts: 251 | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tutandmoane: so far views - all interesting and relative to some degree - have been posted on the rich man who can take care of himself and therefore not using a western woman for profit or gain being a more sincereand wise choice - if anyone got the chance, and the view of the poor man who wants a helping hand up the ladder - and possibly a new life in another land - being the scammer and no good choice. What are your opinions of say a poor man who is a low earner, but hard worker, improving his life by marrying a western woman who helps him financially, then when he gets to the new country, he gets a good job, works hard, and repays what his wife did for him by making a really good job of looking after her, and loving her, since he now has the opportunity to make a decent living? I ask this because many men in the west have married into money, been set up in business, or a good job by the wife or her family, and is rarely criticised openly for achieving such good fortune - so why should ambitious Egyptians be viewed any different from this? What do you think?
Tut, of course this is possible and quite likely as well. And I don't think anyone is putting down this possibility - I guess there are quite a few women here [not including myself] who have not experienced this, and thus cannot relate to its possibility maybe????
Posts: 385 | From: In my hayati's heart and thoughts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I understand the cultures are different - I lived there several years, some of my family are Egyptian, and my grand father was Egyptian and I am muslim, as are many family members and friends. It really doesnt apply to cultural behaviour or understanding from the perspective I was trying to see it from because from what I have read most of the people who have expressed warnings, negative views etc are actually western, and so should have a different understanding that the occurance of a man marrying into wealth and getting a helping hand up the prosperity ladder does happen in their culture, and we rarely attack them or forsee doom for the future of the ladies concerned. The only similarity I can see in the cultural thing is that maybe some of the eastern men concerned may make it a more obvious ambition of theirs, and there may be more of them, but it doesnt necessarily mean that they will all be rip off merchants who do a runner the minute they have reached their goal, does it?
My mums cousin for example married a man (western) with nothing, no education to speak of and from a totally different background. She set him up in business and had faith in him. within 5 years he had 40 tanker trucks, a light aircraft and a helicopter to travel to work. Everyone said "didnt he do well for himself" not, "he only got that because of her money and soon he ll be running off into the sunset with a newer younger model"
A friend of mine married a younger Egyptian, she did have money, he did not. He came to UK, she helped him with his education, then to make a business. years later they are still married, he is kind. loving and spends all his spare time together with her, and he says "I wouldnt have had any of this without her help, and I love her for all she is"
Conversley, my American friend came to UK with nothing,he met and married an older woman in London, decided to live the good life, get jobs in lap bars, find lots of young girlfriends, sorted his immigration out, then immediately did a runner! So, we are all different, we all have different experiences. The view of the Egyptian family regarding marriage is very different, and the causes are many different factors, cultural, religious, need, we too have these things - inter religious marriage, inter race marriage, private education v state education, but we very rarely voice any warnings or personal views regarding it happening between two people from our own countries. I just wondered why that is.
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
as an addition to above - I do actually agree that this advice given at the start of this topic was very wise, and it is never smart to meet someone on internet, run off to meet them, spend your own money and marry in haste !
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
When this should happen once, or twice, people wouldn't say that. They are starting to make such statements when it isn't an exception anymore...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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mmm I know what you re saying ????? - i got a whole lot of the bad stories ! what I asked was not in defence of some of these men and what they get up to, but I was just wondering if some people could accept the fact that it is possible for a man to kind of trade off a life with a young girl -chosen for him- and the prospect of childern, for a life with an older western woman, with maybe little prospect of children, ut still appreciate what he has, work hard and look after his wife kindly and lovingly,and it not always turning out bad. We cant all always think it will end up bad surely? Although I admit it does often turn out bad.
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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Maybe since I left Egypt it has got worse? Maybe there are more bad ones than before? Or, maybe we are now hitting the 2nd generation girls? like where their mothers did this stuff, and the daughters are now wondering just what their mothers got up to over there and want to try it for themselves.
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Tut, I think I have a similar outlook to you. Having grown up in the Middle East, and then relocated to Europe and then the US for university, I think that societally speaking what I remember and experienced was devoid of western influence as compared to now..... and this has had a profond impact on the institution of marriage, and society as a whole not just in Egypt, but in the entire Middle East.
-------------------- رِحْلِة الأَلْف مِيل تَبْدَأ بِخَطْوَة Posts: 385 | From: In my hayati's heart and thoughts | Registered: Apr 2008
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Thats an interesting mix and set of experiences you have had there RASHAA ! My advice always to people who ask is as in any western culture at least - get to know the man, get to know his culture,understand how important his religion is to him - whether islam or coptic - it is ALWAYS different and more demanding than what westerners are used to - make him responsible for the things that are expected of him in his own culture and yours,give him reasons to respect you, as he would have to respect a lady from his own culture, and fall in LOVE, not in LUST, REALITY and not FANTASY.
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Sometimes I see Egyptian immigrants with wifes,who are; nicely spoken, not exactly the most popular type. Rather chanceless in their own society, by looks, by intellengence, by social class,by norms and values, often with a 'history'behind, and therefore available to the men that are, for reasons, not avaliable to the weddingmarket in their society.
So, the wifes are no "top-of-the-bill". Even whén the Egyptian man has good intentions, he comes in a circle of other Egyptians,they share everything they know and what could better their situation. At home, in their marriage, the real life starts.
She is not the balanced type he needs, and probably he isn't either, they are struggling with cultural differences,he feels insecure and therefore dominating, both not enough knowledge about each others culture, maybe social skills not exactly what they should be, he is dealing with low payed jobs below his own level,tempting female behaviour on the street, demanding family back in Egypt, shortly said a whole lot of trouble.
I think people need a whole lot of understanding, emotional intellegence, social skills and patience to make this work. Right now I'm talking about the ones with good intentions, there are enough men who already made their plans after marriage!
So, the risk on failure is high. Even in Egyptian/Egyptian marriages, majority does not have a good marriage or is divorced! So, what would be wise when starting to like an Egyptian man????
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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wow - thats clouded my day. Lucky for me that most all peple never guess my husband is Egyptian ! He is absolutely nothing like one. Most guess he is Caribbean or American. Phew - all those people I would have to explain to that im post graduate educated, private school educated, culturally & religiously compatible with him if, and his medical profession isnt the stereotype expected - - ONLY they knew he was EGYPTIAN!!!!! After so many years together, when can I expect the divorce? Cos my emotionall balance isnt what it should be, and my social skills arent that psychologically structured either : )
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
as you can see - my English composition isnt what it should be either! Mistakes - ...........People ...........and his medical profession isnt the stereotype expected either ...........IF, ONLY they knew he was EGYPTIAN
Posts: 319 | From: egypt/uk | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Rashaa: Tut, I think I have a similar outlook to you. Having grown up in the Middle East, and then relocated to Europe and then the US for university, I think that societally speaking what I remember and experienced was devoid of western influence as compared to now..... and this has had a profond impact on the institution of marriage, and society as a whole not just in Egypt, but in the entire Middle East.
So its western influence?
Western influence has been omnipresent in the Middle East North Africa for over a hundred years.
Saudis and Gulf Arabs getting rich overnight has boomed in the last 30 years. Thus erasing the old model of "hard work and perserverance". When Saudi/gulf arab arranged marriaged couples finally get married its become common that the fortunes of the bride's family has dramatically improved over the groom's family, thus creating a class schism between once a compatible match.
When many Lebanese, Syrian young women marry Jordanian, Qatar, Baharanis, and other wealthy Arabs its considered natural. But there have been instances in which Lebanese men have married widowed or divorced Gulf Arab women and became famously wealthy and successful. Yet no one will give these men credit for their success and hard work.
Comparing western/egyptian mismatched marriages and using "western influence" as the excuse for the marriage's failure is a joke and extremely lazy. The social choas due to oil wealth in KSA and the Gulf has more to do with changing attitudes than anything else.
Posts: 251 | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tutandmoane: wow - thats clouded my day. Lucky for me that most all peple never guess my husband is Egyptian ! He is absolutely nothing like one. Most guess he is Caribbean or American. Phew - all those people I would have to explain to that im post graduate educated, private school educated, culturally & religiously compatible with him if, and his medical profession isnt the stereotype expected - - ONLY they knew he was EGYPTIAN!!!!! After so many years together, when can I expect the divorce? Cos my emotionall balance isnt what it should be, and my social skills arent that psychologically structured either : )
Guess you two are the exception. I don't know if you ever have concentrated on the ordinary immigrant, but they are no doctors with well balanced ladies... They are working in shawerma business and they are married to low class overweighted divorced ladies... Not all, but a lot of them! Untill they get their nationality and divorce...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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i would like to stay in a family run hotel in Cairo - the Longchamps as it has very good reviews and sounds authentic. I don't want to stay in a hotel chain.
I would like my Egyptian boyfriend who lives in Port Said to join me.
Is this acceptable? Would the owners of the hotel be shocked, and would it be a very bad thing to do in Cairo, given the culture and religion.
I truly don't want to offend anyone and I want to book the trip for my boyfriend as a surprise so cannot ask him.
Dear Jennifer,
Thank you for your question.
First, I'm a little surprised your Egyptian boyfriend hasn't explained the situation to you yet, as he should know VERY well what the rules are and that NO, he can not stay with you in a hotel room. I believe it would be possible for him to end up in jail should the police get involved and in a nice "family run hotel" such as the Longchamps, they would not accept that behavior. I suspect they would not be happy to even accept you with him if all you had was an ORFI marriage paper. If you were truly married, they would.
Any large chain hotel has to accept you if you have an ORFI paper, but just FYI - all the staff will consider you a prostitute if that is what you have to legitimize your stay, and your respect level will go out the window. Your boyfriend should understand all this and NOT want to do this to you.
Now I see this is a surprise for him - don't do that. Something will go wrong and you will end up out of pocket and disappointed, I am 90% sure of that. It's just SO wrong in this culture to do something like this.
Finally, there are some 2 or 3 star (not so nice) hotels where you could rent two rooms (one for him, and one for you) and perhaps you could sneak into one room or the other later, but don't try that at a hotel like the Longchamps. They are a VERY respectable hotel and might even ask you to leave if you tried that. I suspect if they knew you were a single woman with an Egyptian boyfriend they might even say they were full from the beginning, to avoid being involved with something like what you want.
I don't know if you have ever had the opportunity to sleep together yet, but that is not something to "surprise" him with.
Even renting a short term flat for a rendezvous with a boyfriend is a touchy thing to try to do. If the neighbors see you coming and going with your boyfriend, it's very likely they will report you to the owner and he will throw you out. Again, the thinking is that only prostitutes do that and they don't want a prostitute in their building.
Good luck with your relationship, but take things slowly and if you want to rent a room with him, get him a visa and bring him to your country where no one cares.
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Sometimes I see Egyptian immigrants with wifes,who are; nicely spoken, not exactly the most popular type. Rather chanceless in their own society, by looks, by intellengence, by social class,by norms and values, often with a 'history'behind, and therefore available to the men that are, for reasons, not avaliable to the weddingmarket in their society.
I happen to believe you're wrong in your analysis that a woman has to fit a certain mold in order to be married, however let's just assume, for the sake of discussion, that you're right. Again, assuming you're right, this sort of begs the question "What kind of woman would said immigrant have available to marry back home if he ... settles ... for someone who is less than a prize away from home?"
I'll be the first to agree that she should live in Egypt with him first and that internet dating is NOT the way to do it. I say this because the chances of him being shady are greater if she's not there to see things for herself.
As for the "hags that bag" (I love that phrase, by the way) their men while he's in a western country, shame on her for not educating herself first: the chances are good he got his visitor visa because he had a good enough reason to go home, a reason that satisfied immigration, such as having a WIFE and CHILDREN to go back to.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I know mentally weak people who are married. They get mentally weak children, and live a life on their way. So, you're right in that. We have an expression that says that there is a lid for every cooking-pot. Probably in this case the cooking-pots are similar to the lid, I've thought about that. Some people are always in problems, and they are doing it themselves. From the cases I know, I never ever would step into a relationship with the men in question, so maybe it's a case of 'own fault'. Maybe we think to much in the victim/offender way...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by getting_hitched_to_USA:
quote:Originally posted by Rashaa: Tut, I think I have a similar outlook to you. Having grown up in the Middle East, and then relocated to Europe and then the US for university, I think that societally speaking what I remember and experienced was devoid of western influence as compared to now..... and this has had a profond impact on the institution of marriage, and society as a whole not just in Egypt, but in the entire Middle East.
So its western influence?
Western influence has been omnipresent in the Middle East North Africa for over a hundred years.
Saudis and Gulf Arabs getting rich overnight has boomed in the last 30 years. Thus erasing the old model of "hard work and perserverance". When Saudi/gulf arab arranged marriaged couples finally get married its become common that the fortunes of the bride's family has dramatically improved over the groom's family, thus creating a class schism between once a compatible match.
When many Lebanese, Syrian young women marry Jordanian, Qatar, Baharanis, and other wealthy Arabs its considered natural. But there have been instances in which Lebanese men have married widowed or divorced Gulf Arab women and became famously wealthy and successful. Yet no one will give these men credit for their success and hard work.
Comparing western/egyptian mismatched marriages and using "western influence" as the excuse for the marriage's failure is a joke and extremely lazy. The social choas due to oil wealth in KSA and the Gulf has more to do with changing attitudes than anything else.
haha ok. if YOU say so..........
Posts: 385 | From: In my hayati's heart and thoughts | Registered: Apr 2008
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i met an Egyptian guy online ...we did chat and talk for long time and i really like him so much...he invited me to Egypt,i will stay with him there and we planned to get married there...but i am little nervous to get married with just after i meet him there..??,and i d like to know how Egyptians think about western women...?,please give me your advice...?hope to hear from you soon,thank you Shana
Answer
Dear Shana,
Thanks for your question - Let me tell you right up front though that EVERYTHING I am going to say here is going to be negative. If you are hoping someone will blow wind up your skirt and tell you everything will be OK if you come and marry this man you\'ve never met in person, go somewhere else. OK?
First, they are charming, aren\'t they? Truth be told, that is why I am living here. I actually met one in person when I was on holiday and was swept off my feet and thought I was going to marry him. WRONG! First off, he was already married. That\'s the sort of thing they rarely mention, if they are married, and since in their religion they can get away with being married to up to 4 wives, they don\'t need to tell you that. He didn\'t, but I\'ve heard of guys that introduce their prospective wife to the first wife and tell her the wife is his sister. He and the wife can speak a mile a minute in Arabic and the unsuspecting new wife has no idea what is being said. You need to understand that many first wives would go along with something like this for two reasons - 1) because he told her to and 2) because she knows in the end her life will be greatly improved as well if he takes on a 2nd foreign wife with money - or at least with money in their eyes.
Even if he isn\'t married yet, let me say that the 3 reasons he was on line searching for a girlfriend (and I am quite certain he found you, you didn\'t find him - right?) is because in the lower classes (Egypt is quite \"class\" conscious), the men are convinced that all they have to do to improve their life by getting to move OUT of Egypt is marry a woman from America, England, or some other western country. If they are married, he thinks her country will welcome him in. NOT! I don\'t know where you are from, but America is not passing out visas like candy to every Egyptian boy that manages to sweep an American girl/woman off her feet. The Embassy sees it all the time and they know better. So, if he can marry you, he thinks he can have 1) an automatic citizenship in a new and wonderful country, 2) money (because you are rich - compared to him you are rich, if you can EVEN consider flying to Egypt to meet him), and finally 3) sex is considered easy pickings with a western woman. I don\'t know how old he is, but he\'s probably not getting much sex with the Egyptian women here (even if he\'s married - probably because he\'s not very good at sex since no one will talk about it here in the realm of technique and in an effort to learn anything, because after all they are \"Egyptian men\" and they are the best - NOT!, and more if he is of a medium to low class, then if he is married, his wife probably had FGM done to her as a girl and she wouldn\'t know what good sex was anyway, so there is no real demand for these men to get better at something they think they are great at). If he is not married, unless he is hanging around with Egyptian girls that they would label as prostitutes, he is not having sex. Egyptian girls are not easy by any stretch.
What more should I say - I guess that it is silly to come and marry someone you only know off the Internet. Since you hopefully now understand that it could be years before he would be issued a visa, if they ever issue him a visa to move to America, then if you really love him, you better be ready to make your new life in Egypt. Has that crossed your mind yet? Now, the first time you come, it will be all so exotic and romantic here - no matter what, but at some point you have to take off the rose colored glasses and see what your life will really be like if you do move here. Are you ready to live in this climate? Are you ready to be told you can\'t be on the computer alone anymore? Because you know he isn\'t going to trust you after you began a relationship with him on the computer probably. Are you ready to be this far away from any family or support system you have in place now? Most women in western countries would be shocked at the way the men they meet on line live. I don\'t know what class he is, but it wouldn\'t surprise me if he lives in a village like Tanta and may have even met you by using an Internet Cafe. He might have a computer in his home and maybe you\'ve seen via webcam a room in his house. You\'ll never know the whole story until you stay in that house for month. If you aren\'t convinced yet to say \"thanks for everything and good-bye\" to this man/boy, come and spend no less than a month living with his mother and see how you like that. The reality of it is that you will never live better than his mother, unless you are paying for it, and even if you are, he might later insist that his mother should enjoy some of the modern conveniences that you enjoy. Egyptian men and their mothers share a bond like nothing I\'ve ever seen in America. Not always, but I\'ve seen boys give their mothers gold bracelets and other jewelry when there was a little extra money available, and the wife got nothing. Are you OK to have to play second fiddle to his mother? Is he the oldest boy? The oldest has more responsibility towards his parents too when they get old. Don\'t be surprised by that later on if you keep going forward with this. Also, IF you marry, move to America and have children, it is very common that the man decides when the children are about 11 or 12 that it is time to move back to the land of morality and a place where they can bring up their children right. Of course you would be welcome to come but you would have very little say about whether it was going to happen or not.
I\'m sorry I took SUCH a negative approach to this, but having lived here for over 10 years, I\'ve seen it happen to so many women and the times it works out are rare - significantly more rare when the meeting was on the Internet. I do know some successful Western/Egyptian marriages when they met in person due to some common interests or work related meeting, but that is it....and the jury isn\'t completely in on all of them yet.
If you are still serious about this and IF you want my advise, come to Egypt for no less than 30 days and live with his family (mother in particular) while you are here. If you survive the 30 days and can stand to live in the conditions his mother lives in, then consider getting married. If by some chance they are rich and have maids doing everything for them and they live in a nice part of town, and have club memberships so you can spend the day with him and his mother at the pool swimming all day and doing lunch, maybe this is the life for you. 30 days would give you some idea too if what you do for a living could be done here successfully in the event you want to work. Some very specific professional work can be done here and you could find work, but many jobs done by women in America (secretary, PA, waitress, nurse, etc) would require that you speak Arabic like a first language to get hired on here and many of them don\'t pay what you would expect.
Like I said, it\'s possible they are rich and he could give you a comfortable life here in Egypt. If that is true, let him pay for your tickets to Egypt to check it out. Don\'t you pay for anything. And actually, if he is rich, he should put you up in a hotel instead of having you at the family home, but if they are rich enough then they may have a very large house and there would be plenty of room for you to have a separate bedroom. That probably leads to the most important advise I can give you - don\'t sleep with him when you meet him. All Egyptian men want sex, but they will loose immediate respect for you if they get sex. I\'ve had some say they even test women by trying to kiss her, and if she kisses them back, she is out of there. So be careful if you really think you want to marry this guy. He could test you, you could fail, and you\'d be on your own for the rest of the trip.
Finally, know that there are two kinds of marriage here. If he only says he wants to marry you, he might be trying to be sneaky and do what is known as an ORFI marriage. It is really no more than a legalized way for them to sleep together and have it be OK with the religion. It\'s a sham marriage and mostly in place so a Muslim man can travel without his wife, take on a girl, ORFI marry her and have sex while he is out of town and have it all be OK in the religion. Saudi\'s will do it with prostitutes during the summer when they travel, I guess. It\'s not very respectful or nice. The man has NO legal obligations to you if he is only ORFI married to you. If you were to get pregnant during an ORFI marriage he could walk away and you would have no recourse.
Sorry I rambled on and on and on. I have no idea if you put a private tag on this or not, but I hope you understand and take what I\'ve said to heart. I know they can be charming, but the reality of the situation is that the ones that really are your Arab Prince Charming aren\'t looking for girls on the Internet any more than they are in America generally. Be careful, be wise and don\'t rush into anything. And when he says, \"are all the fingers on your hand the same?\" in an effort to convince you he is different from all the others I\'ve talked about here - tell him \"NO, they aren\'t the same, but they are remarkably similar\", and similar enough to step back and take your time while you figure this out.
Question hi debbie, pleas could you answer some questions i have about moving to egpyt on a minium of 3months. it would be much appreciated, thankyou;
1, iam planning on moving there at the end of january 09 for a minimun of 3 months, would i need a visa? and how long do they take to apply? iam a 22 year old english girl by the way.
2, how much can you rent a one bedroom apartment for in sharm el sheikh? the cheaper the better?
3, would i be able to work out there? in bars or restaurants etc?
if you could answer these to best of your knowledge it would be great. i have been to sharm el sheikh before, and loved it, i just want to try living there for a while, then maybe move on, or stay. thankyou for your time.
Answer Hi Fiona,
You will need a visitor visa to enter and stay in Egypt. You can get a tourist Visa at the airport when you land. There's no application to fill out or anything like that, just pay a fee and get a sticker that you then put in your passport. Actually, you will buy the Visa from the bank in the airport!
Rental in Sharm varies quite a bit but you can get something decent for about 1800LE. Of course there's cheaper but you won't like it.
Your tourist visa doesn't not allow you to work. Though I work illegally and do not pay taxes at all, It is not right to do that.
Egyptian guys are the best. I have yet to meet an Egyptian who is not a "real man". Unlike those sissy western men, Egyptian men are kind, generous, dedicated to their family and above all, great in bed. I came to Egypt when I couldn't get laid in the US! I now suck dick just about every night. You too can have what I have and more if you're younger. I also work illegally and do not pay taxes..........it's great.
I have yet to meet an Egyptian who is not a "real man". Unlike those sissy western men, Egyptian men are kind, generous, dedicated to their family and above all, great in bed. so far from the truth and you'll never be an example of such ....
Posts: 251 | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by getting_hitched_to_USA:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: WHAT A TRUE DICK YOU ARE, AUTO!!
DAMN HACKER!!!
if he was a true dick he'd be using it more.
I need something to put me to sleep. Why don't you tell me about the story of the "hooligans". I always know when you have added a new story to my file. You keep dropping hints and waiting for a reply
Tell the story sono, I know you're dying to.
Posts: 123 | Registered: Oct 2008
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Egyptian guys are the best. I have yet to meet an Egyptian who is not a "real man". Unlike those sissy western men, Egyptian men are kind, generous, dedicated to their family and above all, great in bed. I came to Egypt when I couldn't get laid in the US! I now suck dick just about every night. You too can have what I have and more if you're younger. I also work illegally and do not pay taxes..........it's great.
Good Luck
That was not there last week when i saw this ??someone from here Posts: 1116 | From: WARNING All stressed out & no one to choke | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Question I WILL BE COMING TO BE WITH MY BOYFIRND ON 28TH NOVEMBER BUT WOULD LIKE TO LIVE TOGEHTER. i AM CONFUSED WITH JOBS THE WYA ETC CAN I YOU HELP.
Answer If you are both foreign you will be able to live together. If your boyfriend is Egyptian, then no, you cannot. In Egypt there is no such thing as boyfriend. Just fiance and husband. You cannot live together unless you are married if one of you is Egyptian. I don't understand the second part of your question about jobs?
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