posted
I feel I have been a total idiot....from what I have read up on about Egyptian love scoundrels I have fallen for it big time! when I got back to Australia found that the chaos when I tried to get money out on my credit card and the cheat involved (where he put his finger over the first number of the slip of paper) has meant I am $15,000 down....I have been told that I can make a complaint to the police but wondered if it will do anything.
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
he made sure I didnt have any receipts. The money was supposedly for a man that could organize visas. I felt pressurised and was not allowed out of his eyes. I insisted to go to Valley of the Kings as it was my second time in Luxor and didnt want to leave without seeing it. The guide said to ask for my money back but Mustafa said he'd given it to the visa guy already,then reckoned he got 16000le back out of the (what I thought was 20000LE), which he has put in a wadea for when i next go back....seems his mother has just sold some land and brought him a new car....I am thinking I have paid for it....it just seems to be one lie after another....I have never met with people like this in my life,swearing on muhammed that he does not lie.
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Glassflower: he made sure I didnt have any receipts. The money was supposedly for a man that could organize visas. I felt pressurised and was not allowed out of his eyes. I insisted to go to Valley of the Kings as it was my second time in Luxor and didnt want to leave without seeing it. The guide said to ask for my money back but Mustafa said he'd given it to the visa guy already,then reckoned he got 16000le back out of the (what I thought was 20000LE), which he has put in a wadea for when i next go back....seems his mother has just sold some land and brought him a new car....I am thinking I have paid for it....it just seems to be one lie after another....I have never met with people like this in my life,swearing on muhammed that he does not lie.
Are you actually Australian or just living there?
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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posted
I am British but have been living in Tasmania for 20 years.....I had gone back to the UK to see if I could fit back in there,had a holiday in Egypt where I met Mustafa and he phoned for months UK and then Aus and said if I went back Id not have to pay for a thing....which was a lie.....was welcomed by the family etc....and cheecyferret..the chaos was that they reckoned id reached my limiton my credit card(which I knew couldnt be right) but they said it would be alright.I felt sick(the yucky tummy thing and hadnt eaten for 4 days)after half an hour they gave me 3 slips to sign...I saw 8000le,4000le and 8000le but they were 18000 not 8000.....there was also 7500 to stop the families land being reverted to rural so it had building permission that he promised to pay back....I just feel the dumbest idiot in the world....how can people do this to someone and swear by their God????
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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Miss Tigerlily....I didnt know it was visa fraud....it was a travel agents near the Club Med, the owner showed me a fistful of passports he was getting visas for and said they needed the deeds to the land Mustafa said was his and money that his business kept as guarantee and it was no big deal and he organised things like this all the time. I just trusted what people told me,when u dont know the language or ways of a country you just trust...
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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...and two...its not about getting the money back....its just wondering if the police can do anything so he doesnt do it again....
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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I don't know as I still don't understand your story. It looks like you got duped but there's no criminal wrong.
Posts: 1044 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Police are as corrupt and low as Mustafa, unless you're well wired to the authorities don't fall into more scam..nothing will be done, its your word against his and he's the local boy, while you're the khawagaya. Move on as Two says. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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thats why I was asking the question Dzosser....surely it still counts as fraud if someone takes your money saying they will pay it back(as in the land permit),or even if I thought it was 20,000 and infact Ive been tricked and its over 40,000????
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
hell no if u do not know the language then u never ever sign nothin. and u dont take nones word for nothin until u get a good interprator.
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Well for anyone in Luxor his name is Mustafa Muhamed El Mashhor Abed Elmenaem,from Achmed Orabi St...not sure of all the spellings.....He has a new metallic blue Chevrolet and is now driving tourists around....and wanted more money for a bribe for the licence.....he is the best lier and sooooo charming....beware!
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Organise what Visas? That is the part I do not understand.
I am sorry to say though that if you signed the cash over then how can you prove you were duped. If I was an insurer I would see you, your card and your signature all in the same place at the same time. You technically approved it. But, what have you got to lose by trying really?
Reporting it to an authority here can be futile though as bad publicity is not welcome and for some reason many folk believe Egyptian men in tourism are good people when in reality they are few and far between. Also, many folk believe that Westerners deserve to be scammed as they are wealthy, whorish and stupid!!!! Nice eh!
And who the hell gets in a strangers car!!! some people are beyond belief!
GF, they aren't charming, they are sleazy and full of crap! Charming is not a few compliments at sunset and then the mention of LE.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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its all such a shame, I was really looking forward to doing business in Egypt and after years being on an island with such a small population did not realise things like this went on....as for the visas Cheeky, he went all sad the last few days and said it was possible to get a visa for Australia,I had no idea how difficult it was for Egyptians to be able to travel outside the country as its something I take for granted so just went along with it! He had shown me his passport where he had travelled to Switzerland to see his brother so just assumed it was like here,pay the flight and get a visa....lol....thats what u get for living in the Wilderness State in Tasmania!(turns out his brother is in jail in Switzerland for doing fraud!!!! I have been told the whole family end up being in on it....its kinda like being sucked into a cult....
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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Isn't direct translation for khawagaya "wheatface" or similar? I mean, literally, someone with horribly, unpleasantly white skin. perhaps the only occasion then where white skin has a negative association. Or I made it up... :?
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
We use khawagaya to talk about the tourists. Just knowing this word saves a lot of cash
Your story begs the question ... how long did you know this guy before trying to help him get a Visa?
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Khawaga (خواجة) is an (Egyptian) Arabic word much used around Western tourists, usually without their knowledge. It's rather nasty-sounding word even by the standards of Arabic, starting with a throat-clearing kh and continuing with wAAga!, like spitting phlegm. The middle A is a back vowel (car) while the others are front vowels (at), the lack of vowel harmony making it sound even worse.
The usual gloss is foreigner, but the official word for that is agnabi. Instead, the colloquial khawaga carries distinct connotations of being both rich and clueless. Only a khawaga would buy something in a souq without haggling or pay twenty pounds for a 5-minute ride on a camel; only a khawaga would barge into a mosque in shorts or get frustrated when the train is 15 minutes late.
However, it would be wrong to dub khawaga solely an insult or a pejorative term, as there is a distinct amount of respect and envy mixed in. Arabs speak of 'u'det al-khawaga, "awe of the foreigner", referring to the desire to emulate Western qualities like wealth, sexual freedom, social mobility. This manifests itself not only in some people's preference for things foreign over things Egyptian, but also as a suspicion of people like expatriates who have too much contact with foreigners -- they are assumed to have lost their Arabic culture and many are referred to and treated as khawagas. These suspicions go back a long way, to the extent that al-Khawaga is not an uncommon surname.
posted
firstly thanks for such feedback and so quick,wasnt expecting it....and secondly even my friends are amazed at my gullibility Dzosser,think its the religious thing that fools me,and it was so unexpected,and when my body does in love feelings seems Im a gonner!Doesnt happen often so I cant get too bitter....and lastly Cheeky,3 days the first trip and 3 weeks the second...lol...omg....makes me laugh when I can see how silly it sounds in words...
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
You're not going to get your money back. Putting a finger over the first number on a signed withdrawl slip - not once but three times - is a bit on the light side in terms of a defense. Without a signed contract to repay, you really have nothing.
Perhaps the Australian government would be interested to know there's a "visa guy" running a lucrative business.
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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and thanks for that explanation Miss T! Cant pronounce it but there are elements of me in that! Not the shorts and complaining though....there was so much about the place I liked and so much potential....just seems there are sides I didnt expect....and so busy compared with sleepy Tas....
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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what I though Stayingput....but I doubt the Aus gov could act much on 'the travel agent guy ,think his name had Ibrahim in it, that was over the road and down a bit from Club Med'!!!!!.....I soppose they know how hard it would be for them to get caught as women are in foreign countries so its a good gamble,the law wont catch up,worth the risk....thats why I wondered what the police would do....lol....probably take him out and laugh
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Maybe if you reefed on the Australian government a little? You know, all about how you paid good money for this visa for my habibi now where is it and what's taking so long.
That will get someone's attention.
Either that or you can just be a victim of a bad guy and that same bad guy and his accomplice will move on to the next one.
Don't mean to sound harsh, but don't you think sisters have a duty to look out for each other?
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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ahhh...now thats thinking outside the box....ill think about that....I like that kind of thinking....I still cant see anything happening...just hate it when I feel my justice balance tipped,thank god for wikileaks and the Chasers election special..... ...and sisters is good if it works....my 3 grown up daughters have an amazing connection
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Maybe this guy legitimately helps people get visas? Did you sign any documents or did you just sign for money? How do you know he's not going to end up in Australia, maybe as a guest on a visitor's visa that you signed all of the paperwork and financed?
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
rightio....thanks for the ideas....just been reading through the dominance topic....quite an interesting mob here arent you! quite an education and insights from varied viewpoints....
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
this story sounds too good to be true for a scammer. i wanna become a fake lesbo and see if i can scam someone outa money...not. but let this be a lesson. never give anyone yr money hunny...
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
lol....not much more to give!! Still in 2 minds about coming back to Egypt, it seemed such a strong idea and good place for a business....how many of u here live there? haha...just had a call from him that went how he wants our love to be a strong love,how he will never leave me,then still insisting I help him with money, me saying no and it straight to he will never call me and never to phone his number.....(promises herself she will never be this dumb again)
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
I live here GF... but I have never parted with a penny. Even my Egyptian friends 'go Dutch' with me, never a giver or taker be in my opinion.
I guess travelling before coming here when I was young made me wise to the words and the ways. I also think having only brothers helps as I was brought up to not give up anything so easily becasue of a sunset or a cocktail...
Please do not fall for his lines again!!! Otherwise you may as well just swipe visa down yer cleavage and let the cash pop out yer ass
Seriously, block his number...
Also put him on Liars cheats and bastards website alongside all the other dirty chavs.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
GF you have a lousy credit card company there in Aus. If I started debiting amounts like that in a foriegn country my credit card company would freeze it immediately and ask if these were valid transactions. I have had both credit and debit cards blocked for using them in Egypt so many times and whilst its a pain at least the credit card company/ bank is looking out for fraud on my behalf.
I hope you have contacted them and reported this fraud to them to see if there is anything they can do.
Many years ago I had fraudulent transactions appearing on my VISA statement after visiting Luxor and I did get the money back in the end.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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Penny, I know a couple of ES folk who have had their card details duplicated and used and they too go their money back. But they never signed anything, they were used online.
I agree though with the lousy comment, I have told my bank around 700 times (no ****) that I live abroad and they still block it if I ever need to use it. I am now also blocked from doing online transfers as a security measure! Over cautious!!!
The least you can do is try GF. If needs be claim you lost it and that someone forged your signature.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Well thats the next step,and good point Penny...they should have questioned amounts as foreign country and so out of character for me....my Uk bank was more on the ball on that one....have seen the liars cheats n bastards site and there was mention of the guy that worked at Thomas Cook in Luxor!....I feel I was so set up...no wonder he said never in 50 years would he find someone like me!!!lol....it just seemed impossible to say no to an egyptian,there was always another excuse and so pushy....having brothers would have definitely helped im sure CF...seeing theres no point in getting in touch with the police,would it do any good getting in touch with a cleric at the mosque? Do they look after there lambs like a church is supposed to? Would they say anything?
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
No criminal wrong! It is because of attitudes like this that nothing will ever be done in Egypt about this common problem!
Call it what you like, conning, deceiving, defrauding, ripping off, stealing, fooling, misleading... they are all words to describe illegally obtaining money. Operative word, illegal.
GH, thinking on, if it was me, I would return to Egypt and drag his lying sorry ass to the police with all the evidence I had, statements, texts, emails. In fact I would now play the wounded soldier and email him questions like 'why' and 'how could you' ... beg and plead for answers. BANG, when you get them screw him over.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
I feel bad for you Glassflower, but unfortunately this is big business.
I doubt the mosque will help you as you are a foreigner in a 'relationship' and they won't look too well upon that. Same story with the police, they will just view you as another foreigner who sleeps around and won't have any respect for you and will be on the side of the guy.
There is being naive and being NAIVE. Whenever I use my credit card, I never let it out of my sight and definitely make sure I get a receipt. Didn't you get a receipt there and then on the spot and actually take a look at it ?
Where was the transaction done ? You could try contacting your visa company with all the details, but at the end of the day, you signed the receipt.
The only other option is to contact the Egyptian Consumer Protection Agency. Yes, it does exist and I have used them once to get my money back from a crook who took payment and refused to deliver the goods. They were on the case the very same day I emailed them the complaint.
Here is the website where you will find all their contact details:
After living here all these years, I will never be able to understand how anyone can fall for these guys. All those corny pick up lines they spew out just turn my stomach, nothing charming at all about these creeps. They are uneducated street trash and just look downright sleazy and greasy. The amount of times I have heard the lament 'ohhhh my Mohamed is different'. I'm wondering if all these women when they are back at home, would head for the nearest park to find a bum sleeping under newspapers, and hand over their fortune to him.
I can only put it down to very, very, very low self esteem. Ladies you all deserve so much better.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Good post Dexter and a good link too... GF, you have nothing to lose by trying.
I too cannot understand what attracts women to these guys either. They have never floated my boat!
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Im sorry you have been hit by these scammers - the police nor the embassy do nothing to help- but i would send letters of complaint to the bank, to the embassy, and to Cairo newspapers anywhere!!! read the posts of LCB . Your story is like many others, the fact that this may happen again to someone else is of concern. I always put a set limit per day on my cards, for safety reasons , no matter where i travel, and if i require more money i have to ring up and give a password or do it online. I wouldnt consider business unless you have a decent lawyer have a bank account in Egypt and do all your business through them - a bankers draft has the safety net that you would need. Even cheques can be "bounced" after the fact if you dont go through "Eskrow" Hard lesson - and yes you have no doubtably put the first installment on the car. His mother would not have bought it, and as for saving your money for your return, i doubt you will see that again. You have been too trusting, as like many westerners, you fell for the charm, and the exitement of all this without thinking anything thro: Good luck and i would shop the b......ds
-------------------- tilly "I can make you feel good" -shalamar Women dont have hot flushes they just have power surges" Posts: 131 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
If you really want to drop them in it write a complaint to the Prime ministers office.... assuming you have full names and addresses of these fraudsters. Just don't mention any romantic involvment. If you state your intenion is to avoid other tourists being scammed they should take it seriously.
posted
Next time never part with any cash and never give your credit cards to anyone. I very much doubt it you'll be getting your money back i'm sorry.
You got scammed its very sad, but people involved who did this, must of known you had money so they tried it and it worked.
posted
mary dot i dissagree if you do business in cash you lose it - you will lose everything as no receipt no proof...If you do it thro your bank like HSBC for example they make the effort to make sure the transactions are true.- because they have a reputation.....so to give in cash is saying bye bye to your money.....
-------------------- tilly "I can make you feel good" -shalamar Women dont have hot flushes they just have power surges" Posts: 131 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
This lady was scammed because she was out of her depth here.. its like being at a supermarket being rushed and packing at the same time then forgetting your receipt and wondering what youve paid for --- hassle these scammers are slik at what they do - hey confuse your mind so you dont notice the extra nought on the receipt..... simply done - and sometimes if your in a bar and you cant see the receipt as poor print out .-everyone has come accross this at some point !! she was targeted and unfortunately come unstuck....
-------------------- tilly "I can make you feel good" -shalamar Women dont have hot flushes they just have power surges" Posts: 131 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Dexter: I feel bad for you Glassflower, but unfortunately this is big business.
I doubt the mosque will help you as you are a foreigner in a 'relationship' and they won't look too well upon that. Same story with the police, they will just view you as another foreigner who sleeps around and won't have any respect for you and will be on the side of the guy.
There is being naive and being NAIVE. Whenever I use my credit card, I never let it out of my sight and definitely make sure I get a receipt. Didn't you get a receipt there and then on the spot and actually take a look at it ?
Where was the transaction done ? You could try contacting your visa company with all the details, but at the end of the day, you signed the receipt.
The only other option is to contact the Egyptian Consumer Protection Agency. Yes, it does exist and I have used them once to get my money back from a crook who took payment and refused to deliver the goods. They were on the case the very same day I emailed them the complaint.
Here is the website where you will find all their contact details:
After living here all these years, I will never be able to understand how anyone can fall for these guys. All those corny pick up lines they spew out just turn my stomach, nothing charming at all about these creeps. They are uneducated street trash and just look downright sleazy and greasy. The amount of times I have heard the lament 'ohhhh my Mohamed is different'. I'm wondering if all these women when they are back at home, would head for the nearest park to find a bum sleeping under newspapers, and hand over their fortune to him.
I can only put it down to very, very, very low self esteem. Ladies you all deserve so much better.
Good advise and I hope this lady does get some of her money back, but at the end of the day its does not sound good. This can happen anywhere to anyone at any time. I would say NEVER give your card details to anyone because you never know what people will do behind your back.
Posts: 1048 | From: If you are given a blessing you may be envied | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
thank you all for so much feedback! It has been the hugest learning curve. I didnt realise what a den of thieves I had met....totally outside my experience as I lead such a quiet life here.I think the being introduced to the whole family was the bit that fooled me,all those friendly aunties and beautiful children that seemed to love me and my young daughter. I think the original article posted about women wanting to believe is the answer....and the challenge of the idea of living in a different culture was very alluring...I will see what my CCcompany can do but have said goodbye to the money,and will write to some of the other suggestions. I am disappointed that the clerics wont say anything as its the guys that seem to pounce and then go pray and I thought they would dislike the hypocrisy but obviously the religion is like religion elsewhere and just a theatre!
Posts: 314 | From: australia | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by shalamar: If you do it thro your bank like HSBC for example they make the effort to make sure the transactions are true
They text me every time a transaction is done..and I get points Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Same her DZosser -they text me - and points make prizes ,,,,, By the way where do i get the smiley faces from
-------------------- tilly "I can make you feel good" -shalamar Women dont have hot flushes they just have power surges" Posts: 131 | From: uk | Registered: Apr 2009
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