posted
Hi everyone, I'm new here at the forum and I've joined this forum since I would like to have other westerns womens opinion about how they think it is living in Egypt.
First a short introduction of me.
I'm 36 years old and swedish and I'm in a relationship with an Egyptian man at the same age.Except for the religion we have similar backgrounds, but already before I met him I had studied islam and had thoughts about reverting someday. He is living and working in Dubai, and it was also there we've met.
Our plans are to get married and me moving to Dubai and we will live there for some years. But thereafter we will most probably move to Egypt in the area of Alexandria.
So I would like to know how other western women married to Egyptian men find the daily life to be in Egypt. So far I've never been to Egypt, and even though I've been spending plenty of time in other arabic countries I don't know how it is in Egypt.
My fiancée has told me that the life in Egypt will differs a lot from the life in Dubai, and he seems to be a bit afraid of that I won't like it in Egypt. He also has told me that I will have to cover up more in Egypt, and it's not like I'm dressing revealing now.
So I just would like to have other women thoughts about the life in Egypt.
Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
Well firstly I am a 34 year old western woman who lives in Cairo and I adore living in Egypt. Everyday for me is chilled out, stress free and the weather is just a dream. I am not married to an Egyptian, I am single and this city is just a great place to be in for someone like me. I chose Egypt to live in over all others in the world... I am here through choice and I cannot give you one single reason that would make me want to leave.
Does your husband to be say what he is afraid you won't like?
I dress as a westerner and never am never harassed or spoken to about it. My Egyptian friends understand that I am not from the same ilk and they accept me for all that I am. I never dress revealing though, not in any country... it isn't my thing!
Some ladies have complained they are verbally or physically bothered on the streets but I have never been subject to this, maybe that is why your partner would like you to cover more.
I too have lived in other Arabic countries and tbh, Egypt differs vastly with the obvious poverty issues but I have also lived in other African countries and Egypt is wealthy in comparison. I think each individual deals with such issues in their own way.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Saturdays she's a woman, Monday wednesday and fridays he's a man, tuesdays Thursdays she's a pink/tanned elephant and Sundays he's Italian
Do keep up D_Oro
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I live in Luxor, totally different to Cairo or Alex and way hotter. Life is simple, laid back. Alex has a more 'western/european' feel, its really nice in Alex, I liked Alex, I wanna move to Alex
you will like it in Alex, Penny is the one to talk to about Alex as she lives there. the one thing I did notice are there seem to be more niqabs and beards in Alex, possibly why your man thinks you will need to cover more but I saw people dressing pretty normally and western there.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good morning, AlmaNora, and welcome to this forum. Dunno what you so concerned about. You said you studied Islam before, travelled to numerous Arabic countries so you know the deal. I can assure you that Egypt will be the most tolerant one when it comes to the dressing code besides Dubai.
As Ayisha said people became more conservative looking over the last ten years or so in Alexandria but it doesn't mean you have to cover up from head to toe. It's something else if your husband requests this to do.
How is life in Egypt? More stress-free. People are kinder than back here in my homecountry (Germany). Once you move to Alex you can join a circle of expat wives. And I just checked: Alex has a Swedish Consulate/Institute. So you are not going to be the only Swede in this area (just in case you get a little homesick once in awhile).
Well congratulations on your upcoming marriage. I am 36 myself, not married to an Egyptian with 6 children so good luck.
I advise your future husband to take you on a vacation to Alex PRONTO to meet his parents and extended family. I assume he is from this area. This way you can see for yourself how life will be and this trip will answer many of the questions you might have.
And please stick around here if you like to. For now enjoy your time in the Emirates.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Certainly life is different in Egypt from Dubai but I don't think you will have any problems, there are loads of Western women all over Egypt.
You should dress depending on the location and the family attitudes. So if you are in a very Egyptian area and a conservative family cover up more. A more Westernised area and a liberal family cover up less.
I wear trousers or long skirts and tops with sleeves down to elbows or long sleeves. I don't show my breasts or cleavage. I don't cover my hair. I live in Luxor (very Westernised) and have a conservative family.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Saturdays she's a woman, Monday wednesday and fridays he's a man, tuesdays Thursdays she's a pink/tanned elephant and Sundays he's Italian
Do keep up D_Oro
ok, That explains everything. Thanks Ayisha.
I had always thought her a woman until one day she proclaims "I am a man".... It must have been on a Mon, Wed, or Fri.
I would like someone to comment on the cost of living a nice comfortable life in Egypt.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
There is no need to cover anywhere in Alex any more than you would do in any other area of Egypt. I dress totally western much as akshar describes and can explore the streets alone in total safety.
The Egyptian women dress the same as they would in Cairo and whilst there may appear to be more niqabs everywhere in Egypt alot of those you see in Alex are Gulf visitors.
Living in Alex is no different to Cairo in terms of integration and adapting. Its what you want to make of it so its a very personal matter. Its a much easier city to get around than Cairo and I much prefer the shopping facilities to Cairo. Traffic is nowhere near as bad and you always have the wonderful coastline on your doorstep.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
D_Oro..if you're pretty and sexy anything you wear will turn the heads of both genders in general, they'll always stare and gaze at you, the true challenge is to pull out your tongue to them..now that'll be cool. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't live in Egypt, but have been back several times. When I was in Alexandria I did find the staring a bit off-putting, to be honest. It didn't seem to happen in the main shopping areas but when you wander away from these you do stick out like a sore thumb. It was winter and I was completely covered (and not in a lycra catsuit either) apart from my hair. I think if I'd been able to speak Arabic it would have been better, but I felt like I'd just landed from Mars. The flip side is that when we visited the pyramids, all these kids kept asking to have their photo taken with me Little ole' me, a celebrity? Who'd have thought it? Roll up, roll up for the bearded lady! Ah, we should have charged
All these nice smilie kids - friendly interraction rather than blank stares - made me feel so much nicer.
I think actually living there, having a family and/or network of friends around you, understanding the language and culture, appreciating the good things in what is quite a different way of life (for me, from the UK, at any rate) and learning to accept the bits you're not quite so keen on is the key to being happy.
Egyptians are soooo polite, witty, kind, generous - all the cold stares are more than made up for by a warm family, and the staring's bound to stop once you integrate. I just think it's important not to try to swim against the tide - when in Rome, and all that. If I were thinking of moving to Rome I'd do a lot of home work to make sure what I didn't like I could at least live with. I think the first step in working it out is by going there and experiencing it for yourself.
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: D_Oro..if you're pretty and sexy anything you wear will turn the heads of both genders in general, they'll always stare and gaze at you, the true challenge is to pull out your tongue to them..now that'll be cool.
Dzosser, I don't think you need to be pretty or sexy. I think people are just interested in what is different - most of the starers in my case were women... ahhhhh... maybe it is the beard causing the problem
Tongue poking - soooo tempting!
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
After a day in Khan El Khalili.. man alive! Are these people serious!!! Cocks. Are the men all retarded there?
THEN... we took a major detour around Iftar, a GREAT experience... as a borderline veggie not so good but REAL. We went away from toursitic and down back streets, my balady Arabic kicked in!!! LOVED it... They didn't care how I looked, I was just in the way Great experience. Even the taxi home was exact price! I loved my 45min backsreet waqlk.
As for the KHAN. What a bunch of cocks! They messed with the wrong blonde!!! I can kick verbal ass
Great day...
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ahhh I wish I could speak Arabic I just got to Abuya and Ahuya and thought... oh crap. This is hard. The Michel Thomas cds had lulled me into thinking it was going to be a breeze until that point
I think without learning the language you'll always be on the outside looking in.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: Does your husband to be say what he is afraid you won't like?
Some ladies have complained they are verbally or physically bothered on the streets but I have never been subject to this, maybe that is why your partner would like you to cover more.
No, he has never said why he is afraid I won't like it. And regarding why he has told that I then will need to cover up more, above might be the reason.
Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just got to think of one more question. I've asked my fiancé but he didn't know.
As a non egyptian nationlity, will I when married have to have my husbands written permit to leave Egypt?
I'm aware of that I will need to have his written and authorised stamped permit for leaving the country with our inchallah future children.
Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by AlmaNora: Just got to think of one more question. I've asked my fiancé but he didn't know.
As a non egyptian nationlity, will I when married have to have my husbands written permit to leave Egypt?
Definitely not!
Good! Then we'll know Since all his friends are married to Egyptian women, and they'll need their husbands written permit, we had no idea how it would be for me.
Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
More and more questions are popping up. Here is another one....
Those of you as are living in Egypt, is it anyone of you as are working? Was it difficult to find a job? I'm a bit afraid of that I will get bored if I'll "just be a house wife".
Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, how much to cover or not I find to be one of the lesser issues, indeed. In fact, a good many years ago when me and hubby were also still orfi, we decided to have a holiday in Alex, we spent a total of 3 weeks there. I had only been to Sharm then and not to the countryside so I was wearing long trousers to be on the safe side, but mostly totally sleeveless underwear-like tops, because it was a hot June out there! Compensated it with a shawl around neck but still. Anyway, I did not experience much staring, nor any harrassment at all, though i did move around alone sometimes, too. All staring was mostly welcoming and accompanied by a "welcome to Egypt", and mostly from kids. Most men seemed to be older anyway, and all were very helpful. I think young ones have all moved to Sharm for better jobs . Or they stay in different parts of town, we were mostly downtown.
But, what I find to be issues: beauty and order in public places. Yes, you try to ignore it, yes the country has a fantastic future, no doubt, but right now it is plain ugly and disorderly in so many places. If you come from Sweden, or from any other extra orderly, nearly manicured country (and Dubai, is one, too, I suppose) then that's what hits you in Egypt - lack of beauty, esthetic pleasure for eyes.
But in Alex that is somewhat a lesser issue and even this year I was there they are sprucing up the town really so much that I almost felt as if from my Egyptian village I had arrived to Switzerland. You also have a greater quantity (relative to total area) of parks and green spaces there, otherwise the lack of simple grassy spots is another deficit that eats my soul. Nowhere to have a picnic or run around with kids!
Next, if you are in a family environment, as opposed to being married to your own countryman and living by your own rules, you will live by Egyptian rules, because everyone else around you is. Meaning that at least for the first years anything you do or want to do, most likely, is either wrong or totally unacceptable or at least mildly strange by the local customs. Small things, but in an incessant flow until the feeling that you are a totally wrong person eats out your soul, and you either become mad or you flee . I sometimes already get it. Plus, you will most likely share your house with some relatives, like with MIl and FIL, maybe some sisters or brothers. Though again in city the circumstances may dictate that everyone buys a home separately and away from the rest.
But if you share, then it means you almost share all that is negative, while the inclination to share also the positive is less evident. There must be a reason why in the West we prefer and tend to move out from parents' house as soon as can, and never move back! Conflicts, conflicts, conflicts, which in Egypt are extra loud and extra intensive, and - all in all - become so so so tiring over time. It is tiring to have angry people around you so often who react to almost anything with plain emotions.
Now, if you are a muslim convert or plan to become one, it may be easier, because at least the religion and its rules you will accept then. But will you accept that whoever visits you, men sit separately from women and have their male talks and women have their women talks, which, unless your friend is from a highly academic family, are incredibly boring in the Stepford wives way, or even more boring because you do not even have book clubs or discuss books (bec outside of Alex you do not have bookshops. But in Alex you do have, my god, you even have an opera there ) But otherwise you only discuss other persons, or food, or even only food.
But you will not want to discuss food because, after a while, you will be totally tired of that food they are discussing, and totally fed up. Because Egyptians will only eat Egyptian food, they will never eat or accept your food or any new or different food, for that matter. You will be sick like hell of those same repeating foods and sick for your familiar tastes! Sill och nubbe och Jansons frästelse!
If you can spend summers back home, it helps .
Also, you will have sea close to you, you can look at it, but no one ever rides out to it, well there are fishermen and their boats but almost no other kind of boating or sailing. And (here dressing becomes a somewhat big issue) you cannot swim anywhere! I mean you can swim in jeans and shirt and you can spend your day "on the beach" in full clothes under a sunshade, but in the city of 30 km of beaches one way and hundreds of them the other way, you have about 2 clubs where you can sunbathe and swim in normal swim clothes, and even then the chances are you are the only one or one of the few, so the males there are still stare at you.
It helps if you take a vacation at Red Sea once in a while. Or in a high-end North Coast conclave somewhere.
I do not remember more "limitations" right now, and not all is applicable to life in Alex, which is city life after all, with its additional possibilities and some freedoms. But all-in-all the greatest danger is all the countless restrictions and limits that after a while make you feel as if you live in a prison - not a physical one, but a psychological one. You will forever try to understand and "accommodate" but no one ever understand or acommodates you, and you cannot also say anything out loud, becaue you are in their country. It is their home here so it is either their freedom or it would be otherwise impolite or a social faux pas to point out so many things are totally backwards or wrong or underdeveloped etc etc etc. So you endure and endure and endure... The next step is you get so tired of always doing things wrong and always being the strange one, the white elephant, and never being able to say how things "really" are or should be, that you totally stop doing anything, and wither away locked into your house like those crazy Japanese who refuse to get out of theirs. (a joke, but not completely.)
I know a girl who lived here for 10 years, she was married to a well to do architect, had all conviniences, 2 cars in the family, a new villa by the Desert Road outside Cairo, holidays in Sharm, summers at home... She got so tired at one point of the life here that she simply went home and refused to come back. They contemplated separation, but live in London now, best of both worlds , at last by her rules. She never visits. I did not understand her in the beginning, and no one does, still, but I begin to see by and by what may have been the reason. She did not work, and she does not speak much Arabic. Stayed at home with their child.
I speak some Arabic, but I am as good as not allowed to speak to the women here around I could speak to, on everyday level, and I know no women with whom I could connect on the intellectual level, except somewhere far away, via internet. For most women around their education is just a decoration, they have no real intellectual interests or these are discouraged, and even men do not have much interests outside their job and what is for dinner. Almost no one is interested in the world affairs and even so few who take any interest in internal affairs, or lack of affairs. An intellectual vacuum...
You also get tired of how little people care, of lack of elementary manners. Smoking in rooms and taxis beside children, no one helping a woman with a heavy bag or to give a seat for a mom with baby in a bus, because someone might misinterpret it. Women in general doing unfathomable quantities of heavy physical moving in homes while men sit watching and drinking tea... which the same women prepare for them, pausing their chores for that time. So much of simple lack of human courtesy around... and cult of men, the "breadwinners". Drives me mad every time.
Part of that whining is of course also due to that I sit at home with small kids, so I am extra tied up, and we live near a small town and I cannot get out on my own because I do not drive. And when I do, there is nowhere to go anyway except to the "supermarket" . It is easier in Alex and Cairo, with easy access to normal comforts and all transport options. And more people, thus also, perhaps, more similar people. But in way of presenting a bit of "the other side of the coin"...
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi Nevermind, thank you for taking the time and writing this long reply to me. It might be the above things my fiancé is aware of and that's why he is afraid of that I won't like it there. Even though he's never been able to express it like you did. Dubai is the perfect world for us,since it's a muslim country but it's modernised and have everything as I'm used to from the west when it comes to shopping and things to do. And also it will be possible for me to get a smiliar job as I have here in sweden.
But we know it won't be possible to live there forever and then it's Egypt as is our choice. He has told me that if not living in a muslim country he might turn more stricter to the religion for his and his ev future childrens sake. Also if we would move to sweden then I would have to be the breadwinner instead of him or at least he will not be able to get the same position he has now, and in the long run I think this will eat him up from the inside. Since he takes a very big pride in that it's he as a man as shall pay for everything.
Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nevermind, is it possible that you and your husband can agree on a location where he still brings good money home and you and the kids are more happy too?? I know you also lived in Sharm and Cairo before.
I'd go nuts if I had to live like that. As you know I am also a stay-at-home mom but I got more options where I am located. My husband is very much aware that I want to settle in the US the sooner the better but Germany is in some ways really good for us.
Anyway I hope you get a break soon. When have you been the last time back home??
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by AlmaNora: Since all his friends are married to Egyptian women, and they'll need their husbands written permit, we had no idea how it would be for me.
What year are they live in???? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Miss_Tigerlily: Nevermind, is it possible that you and your husband can agree on a location where he still brings good money home and you and the kids are more happy too??
Thanks, Tiger, the time to do the moaning for me now, I guess. We are of course stuck here until his parents live because he is the only son. And I do not know of any other place where I would want to live, too. I kind of still feel best at home in this country here by now. Once you get into the comfy routine here, it is hard to go back to the Western competitive life, it all seems so pointless there, the various professions and jobs my friends are having, though nice to look at . I could never take a paid job again - what, to slave away to make someone else rich? and forced to follow the mostly stupid corporate rules too. I was a free soul before and am even more so after Egypt, I guess. Marinated in the pride&ego culture here .
So I think perhaps time brings solution. We both want to have another home somewhere by the Red Sea. Hubby's business is growing fast, he just started it the other year! So we are a bit like beginner entrepreneurs now - a lot of hard work, but not so much income, yet! You get tired once in a while, esp. with kids hanging to the apron, too. So I guess the answer is more holidays both by the Red Sea and even in Europe, yes it is 2 yrs now from the last one because No2 was a newborn then but now both are of ticket age so it costs some to take 4 pers over there, plus all the maintenance! My business also was low for a year because of economy in Europe. In a way we have perhaps just passed the most difficult year in our lives here (I hope).
And Cairo is so near, I think I have to start those pool and book sessions once in a while the way dear Cheeky here does (and always seems so HAPPY!). Take time for myself, though I take a lot here but TO get out from that box of house! But am a bit afraid of that bit of highway from here to Cairo, mostly nothing ever happens to us but also there is almost always an accident there whenever we drive. So I've been thinking on the worst days of renting in Cairo, for a while, until I get this feeling of living in excile out of my system? But then again it would be so stupid to pay horrible sums for elementary comfort and I would not want to live in an awful apartment, while if I lived somewhere like 6th October - nice and new and clean, then what would be different.. still away from everything. Sharm would be nice because you get nicer apartments and usually with a pool, too. But children would miss the life here - the granny beside us and her ducks and chicks etc. For them life is fun here and so many people taking care of them, who also are not nervous with them like me.
So, what can I say - a typical marriage!?? You let hope carry you on and keep thumbs? because, basically, the only alternatives you have, are all equally bad in some way.
We will go to Ain Sokhna the next week I hope, inshallah, as soon as Coptic fast is over, and when mom comes over in Oct then we'll do a week in Sharm. I'll post again a year from now, OK? and then dig out my first posts from 2005 also, where I was asking advice about my "Egyptian love" heheee, and publish it all under a pompous title like some Egyptian love odyssey, and become the next J. K. "Harry Potter" Rowling, hohooo-eeyyy, rich like hog!!!
Then go live in Nice or around it, for the rest of my life.
But in way of analysis, then some aspects I did not think of before (getting married). Though they mostly could not be avoided anyway, I think. Like I did not think that as soon as hubby has the possibility, he also will go out to grow his business and spend all time on it and in a away it will become his first love, because even he swears he does it all for us and he needs to give me everything etc etc, then technically still he now spends more energy on business than on family!
They do not look like they would do it, when are young and it is still the honeymoon time!
But that can only be remedied if the man is much older and already comfortable. That's why those second marriages seem so happy mostly!
The second aspect is the intellectual compatibility, or perhaps background? Because intellect is difficult to compare or match anyway and it can even be a completing one like I think I am more willowy-academic, while hubby is kind of street savvy.
But it is difficult to match lifestyles if the background is different, because the customary needs are different.
Because it is easy to discuss your dreams and - yes you both want that villa with a pool and a BMW and best schools for kids etc etc. But when real life kicks in then for one of you you cannot go without it, while the other one is simply dreaming of it, too, but can live perfectly well without it. My example was very materialistic, and you cannot get over it, too, but it is even more so in soul matters. Can you live in a house where no one ever reads a book or misses one? Where self-improvement sounds like something forbidden because no one would of course admit requiring any improvement. Where one likes to listen to music, occasionally, but the other cannot live without it? Like hubby loves opera, too, and classical music, but he does not miss going to concerts, because he never did much. I do not go so often, too, but if i do not go at all, it has effect on me. Etc etc.
And finally the strain of communicating in a foreign language all day, sometimes that is already that wears me down by the end of the day, although I am a philologist and used to it, then neither Arabic nor English are of course my mother tongue. Hearing yourself use the language in a most incomplete, faulty way all day, just to make yourself understood. Because that is also how you come over then - incomplete and faulty! Sometimes my older kid, 3 yrs, "translates" me to the younger one, 2 yrs. They both speak perfect Arabic from KG. Should I laugh or cry? Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: Because that is also how you come over then - incomplete and faulty! Sometimes my older kid, 3 yrs, "translates" me to the younger one, 2 yrs. They both speak perfect Arabic from KG. Should I laugh or cry?
NM no way are you incomplete or faulty. Bringing up small children anywhere in the world is never easy and can feel limiting at times. Some days your going to laugh and some cry it's just the too and fro of life, nowhere is perfect. What would make a difference is when your business is established and you have enough money to spend some time in your country. I know alot of the families in Sharm used to spend the whole of the summer schools holidays back in the mothers country ( Not always with dads if work did not allow. It was good almost essential for all and recharged the batteries for the mothers. The children then had a better understanding of their mother's backround and culture.
I hope you write that book one day, you have a great way of putting things.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nevermind you have a great way with words and English isn't your first language either. So much common sense spoken here about living in Egypt. I can identify with much of what you say.
Keep the posts coming!
Posts: 588 | From: an oasis near the pyramids | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
OP, in answer to your question I came to Egypt 9 months before I emigrated and secured a job. I live alone and find life here far easier than back in England.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by AlmaNora: Since all his friends are married to Egyptian women, and they'll need their husbands written permit, we had no idea how it would be for me.
What year are they live in????
sorry for being unclear it's not requiered by their husbands but it might be by the custom at the airport. I was told that it was same in Egypt as in UAE that when arabic women travelling out of the country without their husband or father, they need to have a written permit with them in case they are asked to show it at the custom. So didn't know if this law also would be applied to western women married to Egyptian men. But I'm glad to hear it doesn't Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: OP, in answer to your question I came to Egypt 9 months before I emigrated and secured a job. I live alone and find life here far easier than back in England.
Glad to hear that Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: OP, in answer to your question I came to Egypt 9 months before I emigrated and secured a job. I live alone and find life here far easier than back in England.
Glad to hear that
We all have different tolerance levels, we all have different coping mechanismms and we all have different expectations. I guess I am pleased everything is going to plan Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by madderthanamonkey: the staring's bound to stop once you integrate.
Wondering how many more years I will need to integrate.
Seriously – Egyptians have a habit of staring at anyone who looks even slightly different than the norm, so if you look foreign, you will always be stared at more or less. The only solution is to become more relaxed about it.
Alma, I think you have to come to Cairo and see for yourself whether you like it or not. It's just one of those places people either love or hate. As for covering up – dressing halfway decently is enough, you don't need to walk around with long sleeves or a sack.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
That is the best advice I think I have seen on ES Dalia... accept that you look different, accept they will stare and just learn to relax about it.
I am sure in my small town in the UK if a lad with pink hair walked by folk would stare. Difference always arouses curiosity. It is normal.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: I am sure in my small town in the UK if a lad with pink hair walked by folk would stare. Difference always arouses curiosity. It is normal.
That's so true! Everytime I'm visiting relatives in a small village up north of sweden everyone stares. Well that's not because I have pink hair:D but they don't recognise me and can tell that i'm not from the village.
Posts: 17 | From: Sweden | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: [QUOTE]Wondering how many more years I will need to integrate.
Oh crap!
Your neighbours don't stare at you though do they? Surely not?
I really don't like it. I found myself developing tunnel vision and turning into a cold, offhand cow.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
We used to play spot the alien in Alexandria. I found that in spots where we reached two or three sightings, the staring stopped. Thankfully I can't be so remarkable so far as aliens go
Sunglasses definitely help.
Posts: 1678 | From: New Egypt Forum - http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sun glasses are necessary. Absolutely necessary.
Egypt, in general, is like anyplace else in the world: if you have money, life's easy.
By easy I mean really easy. For a woman, with money of course, that means an active social life with dresses and shoes and bags and make-up and the whole shooting match. Not only that, it means nannies to clean and chefs to cook and all a wife really has to do is make her husband happy. And watch "the stories in the afternoon". Or watch the food channel (Fata Feat? Don't rememeber. That channel became off limits when Mr. Wonderful couldn't seem to understand my opinion about food hygene because it clashed with what they were showing on the television.) to learn English, thus she can talk about food - and maybe even shopping and hair and make up and the children.
I believe, to the bottom of my heart, that the lifestyle every single Egyptian man wants to give his wife.
But that 700 LE a month "good job" isn't going to put a dent in the expenses for that type of lifestyle.
The two of you are able to travel. Do that, together, to each other homes then find Cairo, where you can meet in the middle.
If I had a do-over, that's what I would have done. Alexandria is the biggest small town I've ever seen. Millions of people. Millions! And there is no way to get lost in the crowd or ever feel like you aren't always being watched. Staring, sure. Slimy men? Sure, Egypt has them, too. Lots of sizing up the new neighbor is a lot of it we just don't realize that's what happening because we don't know the neighbors. Yet. One the neighborhood realizes you won't be a source of sleezy talk, life will be fine. That's the worst of it. Covering up will prevent them from having something to talk about and, honestly, that's a big deal and the staring will eventually go down. Does it ever go away completely? Fil mish-mish!
Posts: 758 | From: Here. There. Everywhere. | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
What is good about Egypt is still the relatively cheap life here. It means that if you have at least a bit decent income, or the more so if you have double income, you can really live like a royalty here. The usually "big" expenses what make it so hard for new families in Europe, like getting a home and getting a car, go relatively easy here. A villa with seaview and a pool, if you want, is (still) obtainable for perhaps less than a decent 2-bedroom apartement back at home. While that apartment here can be bought foe a few months' savings, and furnished pretty fast, too.
Or you can have a second apartment in a world renown resort, use it when want and rent out the rest of time. There are direct flights from Alex to Sharm, perhaps also to Hurghada.
For some reason I do not find staring uncomfortable, I guess it is just too normal in a village environment. Or I care too little? But I sometimes get tired when they want to take photos with you - the newlywed, young girls, once even a married or engaged couple proposed that I pose with the man only... :-O now that I thought was too much. But I once went to a Ehab Tawfik concert, and it was like a long photo session, everyone climbing near him to take photos and they were allowed, too! So I guess it is kind of normal here.
I am still not sure it is about covering up.. Because really I think I was stared at worse when I was wearing Egyptian clothes in Alexandria, compared to when I was with bare shoulders (because then they are actually not supposed to look? ). And what was the blog here about American students wearing sloppy jeans and clothes and getting harrassed all the time.. I think it is about your posture. If you come over cheap and sloppy (jeans and t-shits) then you are more approachable. While when you look intimidatingly elegant or beautiful or otherwise authoritativem, you have no problems at all. It is about carrying that "do not mess with me if do not want trouble" look in your eyes. Or something. Or perhaps some understanding for the poor fellow? Look like you see his naked soul, and he will blush and turn away. (sorry! getting philosophical in this heat here...)
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by madderthanamonkey: Stroking your hair?!!
We used to play spot the alien in Alexandria. I found that in spots where we reached two or three sightings, the staring stopped. Thankfully I can't be so remarkable so far as aliens go
Sunglasses definitely help.
When I first came here I was 17 with nigh-on white blonde hair that was waist length. The women would stroke me!!! Now I am older and my hair is darker and shorter it is not so bad! I am obviously an alien. But I do not try not to be!!! I am an English girl in Egypt, why would I try to change that?
As for all the money comments. Doesn't money make for a nice life globally too. I am far from rich but I still have an ace life in Egypt! I wasn't rich in England but I was overly social and could afford the basics such as clothes and weekends away with friends. I even managed 3 overseas trips a year, as do most my friends. Admitted, none of us are married or saddled with kids so life is way easier and all our spends go on ourselves.
I guess money does make life easier but it sure as hell does make life what it is... that is only something we can do ourselves as I have met some damn miserable rich people in the past. I think it is how you approach life and find what makes you happy that is important.
If you could afford all these trips and pleasures are you sure it would make your husband a better person or make your job easier. No. True happinness is how you deal with the cards deal you.
Money is nothing if you are happy Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
True, Cheeky, but then if you never was quite without it (money), then how would you know? If you were to spend all your days not bleaching by the pool, but slaving away in the kitchen - because on a certain level it takes all your day to try to feed your family with what you have, preparing it all by bare hands? Yes, you can still decide to be happy even then, but it is much more comfy if it is ..more comfy .
Thanks for good words, everyone!
Posts: 1051 | From: Menoufeya | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
True, if I were poor and unable to find a job that paid for a lifestyle I am used to then life would not be so comfy. But I like to earn the cash to live within my own means. If my life was not comfy though I would change it, not just accept it.
But if my life here was not so good I simply wouldn't live here. I am here for pleasure and not to make my life difficult
And I will never be a slave in anyones kitchen, not even my own. I am happy with an apple I would not be happy if I had to resort to that life! I would do my damned hardest to change it.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
I just thought. aren't your examples personal preference?
Even if some of friends had the money to join me they wouldn't, they would rather stay home and prepare dinner.
I have friends who go to the Villa in Alex every weekend, personally this is my hell. I hate the place and I cba with the travelling.
Having money also offers choice as well as the comfy thing. Which is why I could never not work.
So, in conclusion I would suggest anybody coming here should consider working or have savings to live from if they like choice and comfy (and independance) I do know for some though love is enough.... good on them as long as they are happy Which above all in life is the most important thing to me.
Posts: 11097 | From: Cairo | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Little ole' me, a celebrity? Who'd have thought it? Roll up, roll up for the bearded lady! Ah, we should have charged 
Printer-friendly view of this topic