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Originally posted by Arwa:
How do you define 'semetic'?

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Originally posted by rasol:
^ subfamily of Afrisan languages that includes Akkadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Hebrew, and Phoenician

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Originally posted by Supercar:
"Semiticized Agaw peoples are thought to have migrated from south-eastern Eritrea possibly as early as 2000BC, bringing their `proto-Ethiopic' language, ancestor of Ge`ez and the other Ethiopian Semitic languages, with them; and these and other groups had **already developed specific cultural and linguistic identities by the time any Sabaean influences arrived.** " - Stuart Munro-Hay

My deductions: The Agaw adopted the Semitic languages from indigenous Semitic speaking Ethiopians, [and as stated above] not from southern Arabians. To support this fact, the author makes it quite blantant in the following, what language speakers the Agaw were prior to their adoption of the said Ethio-Semitic languages:

Whatever was the cause of the end of the former Aksumite kingdom, a new centre eventually appeared in the province of Lasta to the south under a dynasty, apparently of Cushitic (Agaw) origin, later regarded as usurpers, called the Zagwé (Taddesse Tamrat 1972: 53ff; Dictionary of Ethiopian Biography 1975: 200ff). The existence of a long and a short chronology for this dynasty indicates that the Ge`ez chroniclers were in some confusion as to the precise events occurring at the end of the `Aksumite' period until the advent of the Zagwé. - courtesy of S. Munro-Hay.

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Originally posted by Yom:
The term is a long standing one and it's a bit too late to change it now. Anti-Judaism maybe?

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Originally posted by Supercar:
"Semiticized Agaw peoples are thought to have migrated from south-eastern Eritrea possibly as early as 2000BC, bringing their `proto-Ethiopic' language, ancestor of Ge`ez and the other Ethiopian Semitic languages, with them; and these and other groups had **already developed specific cultural and linguistic identities by the time any Sabaean influences arrived.** " - Stuart Munro-Hay

My deductions: The Agaw adopted the Semitic languages from indigenous Semitic speaking Ethiopians, [and as stated above] not from southern Arabians. To support this fact, the author makes it quite blantant in the following, what language speakers the Agaw were prior to their adoption of the said Ethio-Semitic languages:

Whatever was the cause of the end of the former Aksumite kingdom, a new centre eventually appeared in the province of Lasta to the south under a dynasty, apparently of Cushitic (Agaw) origin, later regarded as usurpers, called the Zagwé (Taddesse Tamrat 1972: 53ff; Dictionary of Ethiopian Biography 1975: 200ff). The existence of a long and a short chronology for this dynasty indicates that the Ge`ez chroniclers were in some confusion as to the precise events occurring at the end of the `Aksumite' period until the advent of the Zagwé. - courtesy of S. Munro-Hay.

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Dr. Munro-Hay wasn't very diligent in finding sources for that claim, however. He took it from an obscure 1977 article positing that, based on glottochronology, the Gurage languages must have diverged from Ge'ez and Northern (and Amharic-Argobba) around 2000 B.C. It's not the best or most accurate source, however. The idea of Agaw speakers living in South-eastern Eritrea, for instance, is odd, given that the area is the home of Afar and Saho speakers, outside of the range of any historically known Agaw community (who live in the highlands)...

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Originally posted by rasol:
Probably most references to anti-semitism in the west would be better referenced as anti-Zionism, or anti-Judiasm.

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Originally posted by Supercar:
Well, Mr. Munro-Hay is referring to "proto-Ethiopic" languages, ancestor of Ge'ez and Ethio-Semitic languages. Is that what you are referring to, as well? And again, these people were not originally "Semitic" speakers per se; they were "Semiticized" via learning the languages through Ethiopian groups who were already established "Ethio-Semitic" speakers.

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Originally posted by Yom:

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Originally posted by Supercar:
Well, Mr. Munro-Hay is referring to "proto-Ethiopic" languages, ancestor of Ge'ez and Ethio-Semitic languages. Is that what you are referring to, as well? And again, these people were not originally "Semitic" speakers per se; they were "Semiticized" via learning the languages through Ethiopian groups who were already established "Ethio-Semitic" speakers.

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Not originally of course, but if they're going to be a vector by which the language is spread,

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Wilhelm Marr coined the term “anti-Semitism” in 1879 in his The Victory of the Jews over the Germans, which appeared in 12 editions in one year. His publication blamed the Jews for threatening to dominate the German economy and destroy the greatness of Germany

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

Also, I don't know if any of you have heard but there are European Jews in Israel who are prejudice towards 'pure' Middle Eastern Jews who never left the Levant!

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Originally posted by Calypso:
A brief background on the history of the word and concept "anti-semitism":

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Wilhelm Marr coined the term “anti-Semitism” in 1879 in his The Victory of the Jews over the Germans, which appeared in 12 editions in one year. His publication blamed the Jews for threatening to dominate the German economy and destroy the greatness of Germany

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Source: http://www.flholocaustmuseum.org/history_wing/antisemitism/19c_antisemitism.cfm

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Originally posted by Supercar:

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Originally posted by Yom:

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Originally posted by Supercar:
Well, Mr. Munro-Hay is referring to "proto-Ethiopic" languages, ancestor of Ge'ez and Ethio-Semitic languages. Is that what you are referring to, as well? And again, these people were not originally "Semitic" speakers per se; they were "Semiticized" via learning the languages through Ethiopian groups who were already established "Ethio-Semitic" speakers.

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Not originally of course, but if they're going to be a vector by which the language is spread,

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Which of course, has nothing do to with what Mr. Munro Hay has stated.

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Originally posted by Yom:

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Originally posted by Supercar:

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Originally posted by Yom:

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Originally posted by Supercar:
Well, Mr. Munro-Hay is referring to "proto-Ethiopic" languages, ancestor of Ge'ez and Ethio-Semitic languages. Is that what you are referring to, as well? And again, these people were not originally "Semitic" speakers per se; they were "Semiticized" via learning the languages through Ethiopian groups who were already established "Ethio-Semitic" speakers.

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Not originally of course, but if they're going to be a vector by which the language is spread,

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Which of course, has nothing do to with what Mr. Munro Hay has stated.

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That's the impression I get from his statement. Of course, while he doesn't use those same terms, it seems pretty clear that he is proposing that Semitic languages spread through the Agaw. The disagreement here is whether they were in SE Eritrea or if they were elsewhere. Given that the lowlands are the home of Eastern Cushitic-speaking nomads, while the Agaw are Central Cushitic-speaking, highland-inhabiting agriculturalists, and that Central Cushitic (Agaw) split from Eastern Cushitic (Oromo, Saho, Afar, Somali) before this time period, it's safe to say that Munro-Hay's supposition is a bit off (at least geographically).

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A little bit of historical perspective on this term:

Wilhelm Marr coined the term “anti-Semitism” in 1879 in his The Victory of the Jews over the Germans, which appeared in 12 editions in one year. His publication blamed the Jews for threatening to dominate the German economy and destroy the greatness of Germany

Source: 19th Century Antisemitism

This fellow, Wilhelm Marr, at least seems to be contextualizing the term—that is, "anti-Semitism"—in a relatively less questionable linguistic framework, whereby he takes what he perceives to entail "Jews", and places it into the context of Jews vs. Germans, with the latter apparently being non-Semitic speakers. Thus here, on the basis of relativity, the anti-Jewish sentiment that was prevalent amongst sections of Germans, can to some extent be safely branded as "anti-Semitism". But today, within the circles of media outlets in the "West", any figure who so much as levies any criticism—rightfully or otherwise—towards a section of "Jews" is casually branded to a broad audience as being "anti-Semitic", while some of the very same personalities in the media who are quick to partake in such branding, are the most vociferous purveyors of anti-"Middle Easterner" and/or anti-"Arab" [a considerable section of whom happen to be Semitic-speakers] sentiments in the "West"; yet, none of these personalities will ever charge themselves with "anti-Semitism".

Not too long ago, Hollywood personality Mel Gibson was blasted in the mass media for babbling on about Jews being "responsible for all the wars in the world" while ostensibly under the influence of alcohol. He was widely accused of “anti-Semitism” in the U.S. news networks!

Don't know, but the last time I checked, Arabic language speakers and various groups in the African Horn were also considered "Semitic" language speakers.

Obviously not all Jews are Hebrew speakers, at least as far as their primary tongue is concerned, nor are all Muslims “Arabic” speakers. With that said, especially in "Western" mass media, both the nominally-identified right-wing & reactionary "Islamic" elements and/or public personalities and faceless “Muslims” have increasingly become the focus of negative publicity, and some media pundits & public figures go so far as to outrightly call for the systematic profiling of "Middle Eastern" looking and "Arabic" speaking folks, on the grounds of "national security". Given that these folks are for the most part ‘Semitic’ speakers, should this too, not be considered "anti-Semitism"?—Is doing otherwise, not be deemed blatantly hypocritical?

On this last note, I recently came across an article where someone accused Rev. Wright—the subject of much U.S. media attention throughout the progress of the Democratic party nomination process, particularly so at the beginning of May—of "anti-Semitism", and this is how it went:

“Reverend Wright’s views are an eclectic mixture of black nationalism, radical criticism of US foreign policy and conspiracy theories, with a dollop of anti-Semitism—or at least tolerance for the anti-Semitism of figures like Farrakhan—thrown in.”

Whatever the political leaning of Rev. Wright, good or bad, the little that I've come to learn about the man has gotten me to think about the premise of this charge of "anti-Semitism"—the very least, raise questions about the basis for it. So, in pursuit of an answer, I decided to correspond with the author of the citation above, as follows:

I would like to first point out that I don't know a whole lot about Rev. Wright as a person, never met him, nor listened to much of his sermons—save for the few from which the now familiar controversial “sound bytes” were extracted and replayed ad nauseam in various news outlets, not to leave out that I'm neither his defender nor his opponent.

That said, much of what I just cited you on [above] doesn't appear to be an unreasonable observation of Rev. Wright, at least based on the little that I know of him. However, I do have a question about “...the dollop of anti-Semitism—or at least tolerance for the anti-Semitism of figures like Farrakhan—thrown in.” part of your assessment; what is this charge of “anti-Semitism” based on?

Rev. Wright for his part, as he appeared “live” on the various News network channels, clarified that he doesn't necessarily agree with Farrakhan on everything, notwithstanding his friendship with the latter—relating that to the audience by noting that no two people in a single room will share the same view on everything, and said this:

“Louis said 20 years ago that **Zionism, not Judaism**, was a gutter religion. He was talking about the same thing United Nations resolutions say, the same thing now that President Carter's being vilified for and Bishop Tutu's being vilified for. **And everybody wants to paint me as if I'm anti-Semitic because of what Louis Farrakhan said 20 years ago.**

He is one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century; that's what I think about him.... Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains, he did not put me in slavery, and he didn't make me this color.” — by Rev. Wright, Courtesy CNN

Note: ** is for emphasis.

Rev. Wright goes onto to say something to the effect of the need for people to work together, despite religious [and presumably ethnic] differences. “Zionism” is certainly not “Semitism", nor “Judaism” is “Semitism” the last time I checked...or am I wrong about that?

“Semitic” in modern terms, is generally a reference to a language phylum that is said to be an offshoot of language super-phylum which has its origins in eastern Africa. Hebrew is generally considered to be a “Semitic” language, which would make its speakers—“Semitic speakers”, but so does the same apply to other languages that belong to this phylum; namely, Arabic, and various Ethio-Semitic languages like Amharic, Tigrinya, and so forth; therefore, speakers of any of these languages are by language definition, “Semitic-speakers”. Should it then follow, that criticism of any member of these people amounts to “anti-Semitism”? If not, why not? Also, while Zionists tend to be Jewish [whether as a socio-ethnic construct and/or religious construct], does that mean that all Jews are Zionists? Likewise, are all Jews necessarily “Semitic speakers”?

Perhaps I have gotten a little carried away with the line of questioning, but I hope the point is obvious. Therefore, please clarify the “anti-Semitic” aspect(s) of Rev. Wrights views.

In relation to the piece above, Zionism is obviously not Judaism, nor are all Jews "Zionists".

Now, unless I'm missing something here, the subsequent failure of the author to fulfill that request, raises some serious questions about the validity of this charge of "anti-Semitism" and the level of care with which it was levied!

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