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The Peopling of Africa from the Nile valley
Professor C.A. Diop was one of the first to posit that: (Blacks)...formed a kind of cluster around the Nile Valley. In the course of time they spread out in all directions, as a result of the population growth and the upheavals that occur during the history of a people. This is neither a mere mental conception nor a simple working hypothesis. Our knowledge of African ethnography enables us to distinguish between a hypothesis and a confirmed historical fact. To be sure, a cultural foundation common to all African Blacks, particularly a common linguistic base, seems to justify the idea in the main. But, above all, there are the totemic clan names borne by all Africans, either collectively or individually, according to the extent of their dispersion; the analysis of these names combined with a proper linguistic examination enables us to progress from the realm of probability to the level of certainty..." (The African Origin of Civilization.)
To continue Diop's analysis, here are some examples of African societies with Ancient Egyptian titular names which suggest Ancient Egyptian migrations (i.e., like the reflux of the tide):
Benin[Benen] - West African kingdom Benen (217a) = the phallic god of generation Oba of Benin - King's title Oba = Scepter; leader Fante - West African ethnic group Fanti (206b) = a name of Thoth Ashanti/Ashante - West African ethnic group akin to Fante Shanti (as above) - Shante in Coptic Egyptian Ife - West African kingdom Ife (43a) = the god of the 6th day Oni of Ife - King's title Oni (122b) = a title of Horus Hausa - Nigerian/Nigerien kingdom & ethnic group Hosa (509a) = a singing god (Hos = to sing in Coptic Egyptian) Akan - Ghana ethnic group Akan.u (95a) = class of gods with Osiris Twa - East African (Rwanda/Burundi) ethnic group Twa - (1055b) = a Sudanese country In Ancient Egyptian and in the East African languages, the expressions WaTwa (One Twa) and BaTwa (All of the Twa) are identical.
Armed with Budge's Hieroglyphic dictionary and a list of African ethnic groups you too can find some more matching examples.
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Wally have u considered that a cultural relationship began during the Aquatic phase of the Sahara.
Before it started to become a desert there was a culture there that dispersed in all directions. Religious, linguistic and other cultural relationships could probably go back this far.
We know the cattle cult and mummification began in the sahara not Egypt even the practice of representing Gods with animal heads is from saharan culture, not egypt.
So the cultural relationships among many groups of africans from the west to north to east likely began in the sahara and continued through to the time of Dynastic egypt and beyond
Antonio Salas,1,2,3 Martin Richards,2 Tomás De la Fe,1 María-Victoria Lareu,1 Beatriz Sobrino,1 Paula Sánchez-Diz,1 Vincent Macaulay,3 and Ángel Carracedo1
1Unidad de Genética Forense, Universidad de Santiago de Compostela, Santiago de Compostela, Galicia, Spain; 2Department of Chemical and Biological Sciences, University of Huddersfield, Queensgate, Huddersfield, United Kingdom; and 3Department of Statistics, University of Oxford, Oxford
Received July 9, 2002; accepted for publication August 15, 2002; electronically published October 22, 2002.
Africa presents the most complex genetic picture of any continent, with a time depth for mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineages >100,000 years. The most recent widespread demographic shift within the continent was most probably the Bantu dispersals, which archaeological and linguistic evidence suggest originated in West Africa 3,0004,000 years ago, spreading both east and south. Here, we have carried out a thorough phylogeographic analysis of mtDNA variation in a total of 2,847 samples from throughout the continent, including 307 new sequences from southeast African Bantu speakers. The results suggest that the southeast Bantu speakers have a composite origin on the maternal line of descent, with 44% of lineages deriving from West Africa, 21% from either West or Central Africa, 30% from East Africa, and 5% from southern African Khoisan-speaking groups. The ages of the major founder types of both West and East African origin are consistent with the likely timing of Bantu dispersals, with those from the west somewhat predating those from the east. Despite this composite picture, the southeastern African Bantu groups are indistinguishable from each other with respect to their mtDNA, suggesting that they either had a common origin at the point of entry into southeastern Africa or have undergone very extensive gene flow since.
What period is Diop refering to, What expansions? what migrations, and what cultural connections?
Diop was instrimental in that he changed the way the world looked at African civilisations and indead Egypt, but he was limited by what was available to him at the time. Much has changed and much was based on thin limited data.
Are you suggesting the rest of Africa was populated by the peoples of the Nile?
Posts: 448 | From: Australian living in Spain | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Obenga: Wally have u considered that a cultural relationship began during the Aquatic phase of the Sahara.
Before it started to become a desert there was a culture there that dispersed in all directions. Religious, linguistic and other cultural relationships could probably go back this far.
We know the cattle cult and mummification began in the sahara not Egypt even the practice of representing Gods with animal heads is from saharan culture, not egypt.
So the cultural relationships among many groups of africans from the west to north to east likely began in the sahara and continued through to the time of Dynastic egypt and beyond
Yes. This is what the Ancient Egyptian records show and is consistent with Diop's research and that of other scientists: A.) The Nile Valley and the Sahara were peopled during a series of mass migrations from the interior of Africa, from the regions of the Great Lakes. This is found in Egyptian documents and it is where scientists have determined to be the locus (including the Horn of Africa) of the human race. Egyptian records call these lands to the south 'Ta Khent' or "land of the beginning." They also referred to these southern peoples (and yes, south-westerners in the Sahara) as 'Khentu hon nefer' or "founders of the perfect order" (i.e., civilization). The Egyptians recognized, as you point out, that their civilization was the offspring of these anterior cultures. This recognition was a constant throughout Egyptian history. The Ancient Egyptians, long before the great work of Dr. Leakey, had already known from whence they, as well as the rest of the human race originated. This is fascinating indeed.
B.) And like the reflux of the tide, with the gradual demise of Egyptian civilization, there was a consequent migration of Africans back into the interior of the continent, pushing before them the smaller statured Africans whom we refer to today as Pygmies.
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Ozzy, The idea that AE's spread back into the interior of Africa probably gained fame with Diop, but the research did not end with him. The best modern example I can give you on the subject is Moustafa Gadalla's Exiled Egyptians. He chronicles the spread of AE's to other parts of Africa. e does use Diop as a reference, so not surprising comes to many similar conclusions.
Like Diop he uses historic, cultural and linguistic methods methods to make his case.
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Not everybody in Western African are Bantu. Some groups like the Mande,Yoruba,Akan,and others are in no relation to the Bantu people. The Bantu migration occured around 800 B.C. in Cameroon. However,there is agritcultural settlements in Ghana known as Kintampo that date to 1500 B.C.
Prior to this there is hardly any human remains or material culture. Most likley,when the Sahara dried many of the ancestors of modern sub-Saharan pushed out replacing pgmy type people and Khoisan type people.
I believe the first Egyptians were a mixture between Central and Southern Saharan pastorial people that mixed with indigenous people living in what is known Upper Egypt. All you have to do is study the pre-dyanstic cultures of Upper Egypt to see with the formation of Nabta Playa around 6,700 B.C. to the Badarian culture presents straight evolutional path.
In Lower Egypt there are traces of the Natufian people with some elements from Costal type Northern Africans. The oldest culture in the Delta is called Merimade whose dates are contemporary with Badarian culture in Middle Egypt around modern day Asyut.
By the way,has anybody here read F. Hassan's Pre-dyanstic Egypt? How about you Obenga?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Keino
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: The Peopling of Africa from the Nile valley
Professor C.A. Diop was one of the first to posit that: (Blacks)...formed a kind of cluster around the Nile Valley. In the course of time they spread out in all directions, as a result of the population growth and the upheavals that occur during the history of a people. This is neither a mere mental conception nor a simple working hypothesis. Our knowledge of African ethnography enables us to distinguish between a hypothesis and a confirmed historical fact. To be sure, a cultural foundation common to all African Blacks, particularly a common linguistic base, seems to justify the idea in the main. But, above all, there are the totemic clan names borne by all Africans, either collectively or individually, according to the extent of their dispersion; the analysis of these names combined with a proper linguistic examination enables us to progress from the realm of probability to the level of certainty..." (The African Origin of Civilization.)
To continue Diop's analysis, here are some examples of African societies with Ancient Egyptian titular names which suggest Ancient Egyptian migrations (i.e., like the reflux of the tide):
Benin[Benen] - West African kingdom Benen (217a) = the phallic god of generation Oba of Benin - King's title Oba = Scepter; leader Fante - West African ethnic group Fanti (206b) = a name of Thoth Ashanti/Ashante - West African ethnic group akin to Fante Shanti (as above) - Shante in Coptic Egyptian Ife - West African kingdom Ife (43a) = the god of the 6th day Oni of Ife - King's title Oni (122b) = a title of Horus Hausa - Nigerian/Nigerien kingdom & ethnic group Hosa (509a) = a singing god (Hos = to sing in Coptic Egyptian) Akan - Ghana ethnic group Akan.u (95a) = class of gods with Osiris Twa - East African (Rwanda/Burundi) ethnic group Twa - (1055b) = a Sudanese country In Ancient Egyptian and in the East African languages, the expressions WaTwa (One Twa) and BaTwa (All of the Twa) are identical.
Armed with Budge's Hieroglyphic dictionary and a list of African ethnic groups you too can find some more matching examples.
Does anyone have a link or something to a complete (or Abstract summary) of Diop's work and research. I would like to read it and analyze it....I think this information is very interesting and amazing...Does anybody know it any of this type of African history is taught in the African school system?
quote:Originally posted by Keino: Does anyone have a link or something to a complete (or Abstract summary) of Diop's work and research. I would like to read it and analyze it....I think this information is very interesting and amazing...Does anybody know it any of this type of African history is taught in the African school system?
An online edition of Diop's "The African Origin of Civilization" can be found at: http://www.marcusgarvey.com/aoc.htm For a list of his works: http://www.africawithin.com/diop/works_of_diop.htm I understand that there was an Egyptology department established at the Cheikh Anta Diop University in Dakar, Senegal, which has reportedly fallen into disrepair since the passing of professor Diop. There will eventually be departments of Classical African established in the major African universities. This is inevitable.
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This is just my own personal rant, but if you have the resources (which is about $17. we could waste that on a couple cheeseburgers), I'd suggest buying the book. For those who can't, buy the book, the web is a good resource, but the bright pc screens and small fonts will never replace the book that you can convieniently take anywhere. Also, the online version lacks the critial sources you'd find in the books bibliography.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: You can purchase Diop's book on half.com slight used for less than the price of a two movie tickets to some cheezy movie.
True...but you can't beat FREE at your local public library. You are however limited in the extant of Diop's works but you can still find his more notable works. But, I do agree with Ausar in the sense that everyone should have this collection in their own library.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Here's a better (maybe) formatted list:
Benin[Benen] - West African kingdom [Egyptian] Benen (217a) = the phallic god of generation
Oba of Benin - King's title [Egyptian] Oba = Scepter; leader
Fante - West African ethnic group [Egyptian] Fanti (206b) = a name of Thoth
Ashanti/Ashante - West African ethnic group akin to Fante [Egyptian] Shanti (as above) - Shante in Coptic Egyptian
Ife - West African kingdom [Egyptian] Ife (43a) = the god of the 6th day
Oni of Ife - King's title [Egyptian] Oni (122b) = a title of Horus
Hausa - Nigerian/Nigerien kingdom & ethnic group [Egyptian] Hosa (509a) = a singing god (Hos = to sing in Coptic Egyptian)
Akan - Ghana ethnic group [Egyptian] Akan.u (95a) = class of gods with Osiris
Twa - East African (Rwanda/Burundi) ethnic group [Egyptian] Twa - (1055b) = a Sudanese country
In Ancient Egyptian and in the East African languages, the expressions WaTwa (One Twa) and BaTwa (All of the Twa) are identical.
It would be better if certain names/ titles were defined. There are specific definitions for the names Fanti and Asante. It would be interesting if the definitions matched up.
Ife as the god of the 6th day is interesting. What was this god about? If the "6th day" is Friday then in Akan the deity that governs that day is called Afi.
Oni as a title of the King of Ife as well as a title of Horus(Heru) is interesting as well. Doesn't sound much different than Hene which is what the King is known as in Akan. Further more, one will find this word hen/ hene in Ancient Kemet as well meaning "majesty." Hene is also related to the term Her/ Heri meaning "head"/ "above" etc., The metut symbol is of a head. The rolling "r" is interchangeable with L, D, N and T. Eti in Akan means head and Ori which is the word for "soul" for the Yoruba people is said to reside in the head.
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