posted
Jumping around in a region that covers about 600 miles -- Edfu to Khartoum -- and cavorting through time spanning the last 7000 years and claiming all those dimensions and the peoples involved over all that time and space under the one name, NUBIAN, is utterly preposterous.
Until the specifics are identified and dealt with, any and all discussion will only add to the confusion breeding more and more misunderstanding and misinformation and obfuscation and stupefication or should I just say stupidity.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I compare the Nubia-ruse in history to the bantustan ruse in south Africa.
In order to attempt to maintain control of the southern Africa, European settlers decided to invent the notion of South Africa as a white nation that just happen to surround various Black reservations - called bantu-stans, or bantu-homelands.
Of course the world in general and Black South Africans and their progressive leaders [Mandela, Biko, et. al] saw thru this charade.
However there were a few Black "leaders" who decided that the battle against the all powerful a-part-heid system was futile.
So, they decided to play the apartheid governments game, and accept the status of 'independant black homelands' within and apartheid state.
Essentially they became collaborators, or "sellouts."
And this is the case with Africanists advocates of Nubia: Egypt's Black rival in the Nile Valley.
They are collaborators in the theft of African history by Europeans.
They tell themselves - whatever they need - to justify their actions, but the reason is the same as with Black collaborators with the apartheid regime.
They think the European control of history is all-powerful and invincible so they have given up the main battle, in exchange for some small corner of Nile Valley African history where Blacks can be acknowledged with permission of their European intellectual masters-> That place is Nubia.
Ironically the best description of this sellout mentality is provided by Martin Bernal describing Frank Snowden:
A very small number of black academics, notably Frank Snowden, the leading professor in the field at the chief black university, Howard, have been "successful" within Classics. They have concentrated on gleaning what little credit the Aryan model allows to Blacks while ahering to both of its prohibitions:
the nonacceptance of a black component of Egyptian culture,
and the denial of the Afroasiatic formative elements in Greek civilization.
Martin Bernal Cornell University Ithaca, New York
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Absolutely great post rasol! You should have, in my humble opinion , have posted this as a new topic; "Nubia-ruse" Nevertheless, and again, Great!
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes this was a great post. People like Frank Snowden make me laugh. To think you can seperate Nile valley civilization into Egypt and Nubia is just garbage. You cant have one without the other.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
Here is something interesting to think about, just 108 years ago Ethiopians were considered as Caucasians.
Harry Thurston Peck, Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities (1898)
Aethiopia (Aithiopia). Nubia, Kordofan, Sennaar, Abyssinia. A country of Africa, south of Egypt, the boundary of the countries being at Syené and the Smaller Cataract of the Nile, and extending on the east to the Red Sea, and to the south and southwest indefinitely, as far apparently as the knowledge of the ancients extended.
The people of Aethiopia seem to have been of the Caucasian race , and to have spoken a language allied to the Arabic. Monuments are found in the country closely resembling those of Egypt, but of an inferior style.
It was the seat of a powerful monarchy, of which Meroë was the capital.
Some traditions made Meroë the parent of Egyptian civilization, while others ascribed the civilization of Aethiopia to Egyptian colonization.
So great was the power of the Aethiopians that more than once in its history Egypt was governed by Aethiopian kings. Under the Ptolemies, Graeco-Egyptian colonies established themselves in Aethiopia; but the country was never subdued. The Romans failed to extend their empire over Aethiopia, though they made expeditions into the country, in one of which C. Petronius, prefect of Egypt under Augustus, advanced as far as Napata, and defeated the warrior queen Candacé (B.C. 22). Christianity very early extended to Aethiopia, probably in consequence of the conversion of the treasurer of Queen Candacé. Cf. Acts, viii. 27; and see Candacé.
Meroë (Meroê). The island formed by the rivers Astapus (Blue Nile) and Astaboras (Atbarah), and the portion of the Nile between their mouths, was a district of Ethiopia. Its chief city, also called Meroë, became at a very early period the capital of a powerful State. The priests of Meroë were closely connected in origin and customs with those of Egypt; and, according to some traditions, the latter sprang from the former, and they from India. From Meroë in the eighth century B.C. sprang the Ethiopian dynasty of Egypt (the twenty-fifth), reigning at Thebes. See Aecyptus; Aethiopia; Thebae.
Candăcé (Kandakê). A name given to the queenmothers in Meroë in Aethiopia. Some women of this name appear in history, but they seem to have been merely queen-regents, governing during the minority of their sons . Some ancient authors, however, state that it was customary for the Aethiopians to be governed by queens called each by the name of Candacé. Suidas speaks of a Candacé who was made prisoner by Alexander the Great, but this appears to be a mere fable. A Candacé, blind of one eye, made an irruption into Egypt during the reign of Augustus, B.C. 22. She took and pillaged several cities, but Petronius, the prefect of Egypt, pursued her and penetrated into her dominions, which he pillaged in turn, until she restored the booty which she had carried off from Egypt, and sued for peace (Dio Cass. lxiv. 5; Plin. H. N.vi. 29). Mention is also made in the sacred writings of a queen of Aethiopia named Candacé (Acts, viii. 27).
LET THIS BE A LESSON TO THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO DEPEND ON EGYPTOLOGIST,NUBIANOLOGIST AND OTHER SO CALLED SCHOLARS TO THINK FOR THEM.
TRUTH COMES FROM UNDERSTANDING OF THE FACTS NOT FROM BEING DICTATED ON WHAT TO THINK.
NO NEED TO DELETE A POSTS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH THE FACTS THAT IS PRESENTED IN THE POSTS.
Here we find the GAME PLAN has already started notice that within this article they have already begun to classify the Badarians as Nubians.
Nubia From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search This article is about the region in Africa, for other uses see Nubia (disambiguation) Today Nubia is the region in the south of Egypt, along the Nile and in northern Sudan, but in ancient times it was an independent kingdom.
Nubian Wedding near Aswan, Egypt It's people spoke at least two varieties of the Nubian language group, a Nilo-Saharan subfamily which includes Nobiin, Kenuzi-Dongola, Midob and several related varieties in the northern part of the Nuba Mountains in South Kordofan. A variety (Birgid) was spoken (at least until 1970) north of Nyala in Darfur but is now extinct. Old Nubian was used in mostly religious texts dating from the 8th and 9th centuries AD. It is considered ancestral to modern day Nobiin, and is a transient region between Arabia and Black Africa
Pre-history The earliest cultures of Nubia left no writings and are unreported in the annals of other nations. The first noticeable cultures in Nubia include first the Badarian culture, then the Amratian and finally the Gerzean. From the Gerzean the first native culture developed known as the A-Group, which began roughly at the same time as the First dynasty of Egypt around 3100 BC. It consisted of semi-nomadic groups who subsided by herding sheep, goats, and some cattle. It is known from its distinctive burial rituals and pottery. Prehistoric tools discovered in Nubia date to circa 65,000 BC, found along the Nile Valley [1].
This culture began to decline in the early-28th century BC. The succeeding culture is known as B-Group. Previously, the B-Group people were thought to have invaded from elsewhere. Today most historians believe that B-Group was merely A-Group but far poorer. The causes of this are uncertain, but it was perhaps caused by Egyptian invasions and pillaging that began at this time.
Even before 3000 BC, Nubia was a trade corridor between Egypt and tropical Africa. Egyptian craftsmen of the period used ivory and ebony wood from tropical Africa which came through Nubia.
Hotep2u wrote:
quote: Notice they didnot include Naqada Culture within Nubia. How Can a Nation be the same when the oldest form of the writing assigned to that Nation only date back to 8th Centure A.D.?
Early History
In 2300 BC, Nubia was first mentioned in Old Kingdom Egyptian accounts of trade missions. From Aswan, right above the First Cataract, southern limit of Egyptian control at the time, Egyptians imported gold, incense, ebony, ivory, slaves, and exotic animals from tropical Africa through Nubia. As trade between Egypt and Nubia increased so did wealth and stability. By the Egyptian 6th dynasty, Nubia was divided into a series of small kingdoms. There is debate over whether these C-Group peoples, who flourished from c. 2240 BC to c. 2150 BC, were another internal evolution or invaders. There are definite similarities between the pottery of A-Group and C-Group, so it may be a return of the ousted Group-As, or an internal revival of lost arts. At this time, the Sahara Desert was becoming too arid to support human beings, and it is possible that there was a sudden influx of Saharan nomads. C-Group pottery is characterized by all-over incised geometric lines with white infill and impressed imitations of basketry.
During the Egyptian Middle Kingdom (c. 2040-1640 BC), Egypt began expanding into Nubia to gain more control over the trade routes in Northern Nubia and to gain direct access to trade with Southern Nubia. They erected a chain of forts down the Nile below the Second Cataract. These garrisons seemed to have peaceful relations with the local Nubian people but little interaction during the period.
A contemporaneous but distinct culture from the C-Group was the Pan Grave culture, so called because of their shallow graves. The Pan Graves are associated with the East bank of the Nile, but the Pan Graves and C-Group definitely interacted. Their pottery is characterized by incised lines of a more limited character than those of the C-Group, generally having interspersed undecorated spaces within the geometric scheme.
From the C-Group culture, the first kingdom to unify much of the region arose, the Kingdom of Kerma, named for its presumed capital at Kerma, one of the earliest urban centers in tropical Africa. By 1750 BC, the kings of Kush were powerful enough to organize the labor for monumental walls and structures of mud brick, and had rich tombs with possessions for the afterlife and large human sacrifices. The craftsmen were skilled in metalworking and their pottery surpassed in skill that of Egypt. When Egyptian power revived under the New Kingdom (c.1532-1070 BC) they began to expand further southwards. Destroying the kingdom and capital of Kerma they expanded to the Forth Cataract. By the end of the reign of Thutmose I in 1520 BC, all of northern Nubia had been annexed. They built a new administrative center at Napata, and used the area to produce gold which made Egypt the prime source of gold in the Middle East.
Hotep2u wrote:
quote: Now they begin the Alphabet Soup Grouping because they have no historical document to verify Nubia so they make it up as they go along. Eurocentric and Arabcentric LIES. Trying to steal Afrikan history from Afrikans is a losing battle yet they are DUMB enough to try,
ONLY IGNORANT PEOPLE ACCEPT NUBIA MYTH AS HISTORY.
quote:Originally posted by Hotep2u: Only ignorant people accept Nubia myth as history.
The German Egyptologist, Karl Richard Lepsius, on the race of the Nubians (1853)
(During the early nineteenth century, the Germans began to develop 'scientific' theories to prove the racial and cultural superiority of the northern Europeans, and especially themselves [which is odd, given the remarks of the Roman writers on the backwardness of the northern Europeans, cf III A 1 o). Such theories could not accept that true African people were capable of high intellect or cultural achievement. The Nubians, he therefore speculated, could not have been real Africans but rather dark-skinned members of the white race.)
"The ancient population of the whole Nile valley to Chartum (i.e. Khartoum), and perhaps along the Blue River (i.e. Blue Nile), as also the tribes in the desert east of the Nile, and the Abyssinians, then (in ancient times) probably were more broadly distinguished from the negroes than at present, and belonged to the Caucasian race."
Karl Richard Lepsius, Discoveries in Egypt, Ethiopia, and the Peninsula of Sinai in the Years 1842-1845 (London: 1853), p. 229
The American Diplomat, Bayard Taylor (1859), on the race of the Nubians
(Here is example of how racism and 'scientific' racist theory led to the outlandish view, embraced even by highly educated people, that the ancient monuments of Africa could not have been constructed by ancient Africans. In Taylor's view, the dark-skinned creators of the antiquities of the Sudan were not Africans at all but a branch of the "white race" that had come from somewhere else!)
"The sculptures at Mero‘ also establish the important fact that the ancient Ethiopians, though of a darker complexion than the Egyptians (as they are in fact represented, in Egyptian sculpture), were, like them, an offshoot of the great Caucasian race. Whether they were originally emigrants from Northern India and the regions about Cashmere, as the Egyptians are supposed to have been, or, like the Beni Koreish at a later period, crossed over from the Arabian Peninsula, is not so easily determined. The theory of Pococke and other scholars, based on the presumed antiquity of Mero‘, that here was the first dawning on African soil of that earliest Indian Civilization, which afterwards culminated at Memphis and Thebes, is overthrown; but we have what is of still greater significance - the knowledge that the highest Civilization, in every age of the world, has been developed by the race to which we belong."
Bayard Taylor, A Journey to Central Africa; or Life and Landscapes from Egypt to the Negro Kingdoms of the White Nile (New York, 1859), pp. 236-237.
The American Egyptologist, George A. Reisner (1866-1942), and his theories of Nubian cultural decline
(George A. Reisner is considered the father of modern scientific archaeology and developed the careful methods of excavation and documentation that are now followed by all. However, he stumbled badly as an archaeologist and was unable to draw proper conclusions from evidence because of his racist biases. Although he pioneered the excavation of the greatest sites in the Sudan and laid the foundations by which ancient Nubian history has been reconstructed, he was able to do this only because he held ideas that the Nubian royal family was somehow of "white" heritage. Whenever the Nubian culture declined, he assumed it was the result of the darkening of their skin through 'climatic influences' or intermarriage with the native population!)
"Henceforth (i.e. after their expulsion from Egypt by the Assyrians about 660 BC), the kings of Ethiopia were to rule only over their own land, the most barren part of the Nile Valley. The native negroid race had never developed either its trade or any industry worthy of mention and owed their cultural position to the Egyptian immigrants and to the imported Egyptian civilization. The early kings sprang certainly from the Egyptianized ruling class and had without doubt a large portion of Libyan (i.e. white) or Egyptian blood in their veins. The Egypto-Libyan elements in the royal family and in the ruling class were gradually replaced by the native negroid elements, probably through climatic influences and intermarriage. The deadening effects of this racial change appear in the gradual decline of the arts and crafts."
George A. Reisner, Museum of Fine Arts Bulletin XVI (1918), p. 80
"We may be sure that the Egyptians of (Kerma) acquired and used considerable numbers of negro slaves, both male and female, and took into their hareems such women, whether negresses or Nubians, as pleased them and fell into their power.The social mingling of the three races, the Egyptian, the Nubian, and the negro in one community, would naturally be supposed to have a marked cultural effect on the community.The most obvious result in all such cases is of course the production of offspring of mixed blood who do not inherit the mental qualities of the highest race, in this case the Egyptian. But a portion of the offspring will perpetuate the qualities, physical and mental, of the male parent, and thus the highest race will not necessarily disappear, even after some generations."
George A. Reisner, Excavations at Kerma, Parts IV-V (Cambridge, 1924), p. 556
The British Egyptologist Arthur Weigall on the Nubian 25th Dynasty (1925)
(Arthur Weigall, a noted Egyptologist of the early twentieth century, recounts a meeting in London probably with the noted African-American historian, Marcus Garvey. His text, in a popular book on ancient history, reveals the kind of unashamed racism so prevalent in his day; it also reveals that white scholars of the day evaluated Nubian history through the same racist filter. If the remarks below are highly offensive to us today, they can serve as an unforgettable reminder that, whatever race we belong to, we will all fail miserably as historians if we cannot free ourselves of racial and cultural bias.)
"One day, in London, a few years ago, I was called up on the telephone by an American unknown to me, whose soft and cultured Southern voice somehow caused me to picture him as a white-mustached, little old gentleman in a 'wide-awake' hat and black tail-coat. He explained that he was a professor of Ancient History at a university in the States, and he asked for an interview in order to discuss certain archaeological matters. I invited him to take tea with me on the following afternoon, and my surprise may be imagined when at the appointed hour an enormous and perfectly black negro was ushered in by the agitated maid. He proved to be a man of considerable scholarship, passionately eager to raise the status of his people, and, with that object in view, anxious to learn how to obtain permission to excavate and make researches in the Sudan, where he hoped to unearth the buried relics of the ancient glories of his dusky forefathers.
"For some time, with shining teeth and rolling eyes, he talked to me about the early history of the negro kingdom of Cush, or Ethiopia, which rose to its highest power in the Eighth Century B.C.; and he revealed a particular and typical interest in the subject of the ancient religion of his race, especially in the ceremonial and mystical aspect. His enthusiasm was well served by his eloquence; and in highly rhetorical language, which became in the end a trifle too boastful, he invoked a tremendous picture of far-off magnificence, pointing out that, after all, it was fitting that a negro rather than a white man should undertake the study of the remains left by that astonishing epoch of nigger domination."
"I do not know whether he has been able to fulfil his purpose or not; but after he had bowed himself out I again read through the grandiloquent and deeply religious annals left by king Piankhi (sic!), the most famous of the nigger kings, and I came to the conclusion that my visitor was probably right in his belief that it takes a negro to understand a negro."
Arthur Weigall, Flights into Antiquity (London: Hutchinson, no date [about 1925]), pp. 221-222.
Asa G. Hilliard III, Georgia State University, Are Africans African? Scholarship Over Rhetoric and Propaganda, Valid Discouse on Kemetic Origins. (1996)
"Reputable scholars actually argued once that Egypt was in Asia, not Africa! The modern-day equivalent of that geographic absurdity is the argument that the phenotype of Egyptians is "white". James Breasted, of the University of Chicago, argued both ways in two different editions of Ancient Times. Kemetic people were "brown" in 1916 and "white" in 1935 (Browder 1992:146). We never knew the evidentiary basis of Breasted's conclusions in either case. He just declared it to be so."
Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote: I think that it's about time that we start phasing out the term "Nubia" as a euphemism for "Negro"; "Ethiopian" ; ad nauseum -- This, of course, will not be easy.
Reasons to not use the term: a) There is no region or people in the Mdu Ntr called "Nubians"; this was applied by the Romans to the gold mining region of Upper Egypt/Sudan, and comes from the Mdu Ntr "nub" for gold... b) In the Mdu Ntr "Nubi;Nubiu" simply means gold miner(s)... c) Kush/Ekush (Kushi/Ekushi) was in what is now Upper Egypt/Sudan and is NOT Nubia... d) Ethaosh are the contries on the frontier of Kemet... e) Saba/Sheba (Meroe) is in the same region and it also is NOT Nubia... f) The proper term for "Negroes"; "Ethiopians" would be "Kememu"...
and there are more reasons...
and agree with rasol...
quote: Why can't they [Blacks] leave Egypt alone? Why not Nubia? The answer is that Nubia did not build pyramids and temples that impressed the classical writers of Greece and Rome with their power, antiquity, and wisdom - Ann Macy Roth
To understand the magnitude, the sheer audacity of this lie, note only that there are more pyramids in Ta-Seti [Nubia] than anywhere else in Egypt.
It is actually these pyramids found in meroe that are likely the model of some that appear on Western currency:
* Egypt is removed from Africa. * Egypt is separated from Nubia. * All "Nubian" civilisation is easily re-assigned to Egypt. * Egypt is re-assigned to the Near East. * Nubian "people" are assigned to sub-sahara.
And we repeat this, this.....GAR-BAGE.
and with AlTakruri, Supercar, et al...
quote: AlTakruri wrote: Jumping around in a region that covers about 600 miles -- Edfu to Khartoum -- and cavorting through time spanning the last 7000 years and claiming all those dimensions and the peoples involved over all that time and space under the one name, NUBIAN, is utterly preposterous.
Until the specifics are identified and dealt with, any and all discussion will only add to the confusion breeding more and more misunderstanding and misinformation and obfuscation and stupefication or should I just say stupidity.
And since there is here a consensus; Why do we still continue to repeat this, this.....GAR-BAGE. We should start using the African names of places in African antiquity; IE, "Yam", "Saba", "Wawat", - We must start using the Mdu Ntr...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
wally quote: ____________________________________________________________ And since there is here a consensus; Why do we still continue to repeat this, this.....GAR-BAGE. We should start using the African names of places in African antiquity; IE, "Yam", "Saba", "Wawat", - We must start using the Mdu Ntr... ____________________________________________________________
We keep using the term Nubia because it is a term that everyone knows identifies an area below Egypt. This is a geographical term and ethnonym there is nothing wrong with using it until textbooks used in the schools use the original Egyptian terms for this part of Africa.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:We keep using the term Nubia because it is a term that everyone knows identifies an area below Egypt.
That's a false statement and a logical fallacy - Argumentum ad populum - ie -> "everybody knows".
quote:This is a geographical term
The correct geographical definition of Nubia - and area located in southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, *not* and "area below egypt". [i wonder if you recognise the freudian slip as well as the error?]
quote:until textbooks used in the schools use the original Egyptian terms for this part of Africa.
That's passive minded, self defeating and morally unwise.
To repeat and error *is* and error, to repeat a lie is to lie.
We needn't wait for others to correct themselves in order to speak the truth.
Instead of reacting and waiting we should be setting the agenda! Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
To repeate and error is and error, to repeat a lie is to lie.
You don't wait for others to correct themselves in order for you to speak the truth -you make sure that you are correct.
Instead of reacting and waiting we should be setting the agenda! ___________________________________________________________
Call it what you must, but doing so will not change anything in relation to the real world. This is a fine forum that produces considerable knowledge. Knowledge which can help people know the truth related to history. Yet if we speak in terms that the majority of people in the world are unfamiliar with our mission to inform will be lost.
Yes we should change the perception of people in the world to Egyptian history. But it must be done in a way that the average reader just entering this forum will be able to understand what it is we are talking about. These people are familiar with Nubia, but not Yam.
Change is slow. We have to be strategic in bringing about change.
In Communist China, they often talked about Revolution from Below and Revolution from Above. Revolution from below was a method to spread Communism by changing the ideology of the masses through education and training. Revolution from above, was change forced on the people from the Top (Government Policy).
Mao got tired of waiting to bring about change by a Revolution from Below, so he started the Cultural Revolution. This proved to be a failure politically and set back China for many years.
Your view of changing the knowledge base by abandoning the term Nubia, is a Revolution from Above. They usually fail.
We can bring about strategic change by starting with the knowledge base that the masses are familiar with. Building on the prior knowledge of the average student of Egyptian and African history, you can then teach them new terms that are authentic and true. Armed with this extended knowledge base over time the term Nubia will probably be abandon because the people recognize it as a lie.
As a result, I believe we should continue to use the term Nubia in association with the authentic Egyptian terms. In this way more and more people will become familiar with the authentic Egyptian terms, and Eurocentric terms we use today; and at the same time expand their knowledge of all aspects of Egyptian and African history, genetics and etc.
If we avoid using the term Nubia, we will not really be educating people--they won't know what we're talking about anyway. Then knowledge on this forum will be understood only by the regulars on the forum, and over time it will lose its dynamism. I for one would not like to see this happen. Let us compromise continue to use the term Nubia, while introducing the authentic terms when ever possible.
.....
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Call it what you must, but doing so will not change anything in relation to the real world.
^lol. We must call that a non-sequitur, which in real world terms defines a poorly formulated argument.
You neither contested any fact, nor provided any sound rationale for 'sycophantic buy in', other than the usual - "we must dumb down the discourse, because truth is complicated, and people are too simple" ..... condescensions.
The Nubia ruse is the deadliest form of Eurocentrism, precisely because African scholars who should know better 'give up',and start repeating rather than speaking truth - which is their duty.
quote:Your view of changing the knowledge base by abandoning the term Nubia.
lol again. I provided the correct definition of the term, Nubia. You respond with another non-sequitur about 'abandoning' a term - in order to justify your false definition.
What is specifically advocated is this:
Tell the truth.
Don't lie.
And that's as real world as you can get. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: lol again. I provided the correct definition of the term, Nubia. You respond with another non-sequitur about 'abandoning' a term - in order to justify your false definition.
What is specifically advocated is this:
Tell the truth.
Don't lie.
And that's as real world as you can get.
Pop your collar rasol you are the M.A.N, this comment was REAL, because what a lot of Afrocentric authors don't realize is that Afrocentric students are doing research into what is being written and we know which authors are worthy of being read and which authors should be ignored.
Ancient Nubian Civilization MYTH should have never made it into the Afrocentric studies because it was incorrect, just like Kemet being a European civilization and now Arab civilization is a LIE. History stealing is a Shame and Disgrace to the ethnic groups who practice such ignorant behavior, such ignorant behavior only shows that the History stealing BANDITS are ashamed of their own ancestors and if that is the case then they should not resort to stealing the history of other people but work to build present and future accomplishment that would make their own ancestors proud. No need to steal History when you can make it today, so others can appreciate you tomorrow, even more than those groups who did great things in the past.
Afrocentric writers who settle and disrespect Afrikans with comments such as this:
quote: If we avoid using the term Nubia, we will not really be educating people--they won't know what we're talking about anyway. Then knowledge on this forum will be understood only by the regulars on the forum, and over time it will lose its dynamism. I for one would not like to see this happen. Let us compromise continue to use the term Nubia, while introducing the authentic terms when ever possible.
Shows how much respect they have for Afrikan intelligence, Truth is what Afrikans ask for not political strategy. George James Stolen Legacy caught the attention of the Afrikans so if some Afrocentrics wish to politicize that attention then they will be ignored or pushed aside for those who respect Afrikan intelligence and history.
Herodotus is a Greek historian who went through many years of hard work to write a history book that was truth filled to the best of his abilities, that was over 2400 years ago and it is still read today Eurocentrics have attempted to discredit this historian, while disrespecting all his hard work in the process. Afrikans have now found out our past through his eyes and for that Afrikans are thankful, so if Herodotus isn't a example for the Afrocentic historians then I don't know what lesson they will learn next because TRUTH ALONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME!
Nubia is said to be located south of the Elephantine well here is what Herodotus has to say about what lies above (South) of the Elephantine.
quote:All that I succeeded in learning further of the more distant portions of the Nile, by ascending myself as high as Elephantine and making inquiries concerning the parts beyond , was the following:-
As one advances beyond Elephantine, the land rises. Hence it is necessary in this part of the river to attach a rope to the boat on each side, as men harness an ox, and so proceed on the journey. If the rope snaps, the vessel is borne away down stream by the force of the current.
The navigation continues the same for four days, the river winding greatly, like the Maeander, and the distance traversed amounting to twelve schoenes. Here you come upon a smooth and level plain, where the Nile flows in two branches, round an island called Tachompso. The country above Elephantine is inhabited by the Ethiopians, who possess one-half of this island, the Egyptians occupying the other . Above the island there is a great lake, the shores of which are inhabited by Ethiopian nomads; after passing it, you come again to the stream of the Nile, which runs into the lake. Here you land, and travel for forty days along the banks of the river, since it is impossible to proceed further in a boat on account of the sharp peaks which jut out from the water, and the sunken rocks which abound in that part of the stream. When you have passed this portion of the river in the space of forty days, you go on board another boat and proceed by water for twelve days more, at the end of which time you reach a great city called Meroe, which is said to be the capital of the other Ethiopians. The only gods worshipped by the inhabitants are Jupiter and Bacchus, to whom great honours are paid. There is an oracle of Jupiter in the city, which directs the warlike expeditions of the Ethiopians; when it commands they go to war, and in whatever direction it bids them march, thither straightway they carry their arms.
On leaving this city, and again mounting the stream, in the same space of time which it took you to reach the capital from Elephantine, you come to the Deserters, who bear the name of Asmach. This word, translated into our language, means "the men who stand on the left hand of the king." These Deserters are Egyptians of the warrior caste, who, to the number of two hundred and forty thousand, went over to the Ethiopians in the reign of king Psammetichus.
Ethiopia,Kush,Kemet,Axum or Nile Valley Civilization are all quite accurate and can be easily verified by historical text while Nubia will only confuse a Afrocentric student trying to learn about Nile Valley History, because I myself became quite confused while trying study the history of east Afrika. Drop Ancient Nubian civilization Myth and Nile Valley History is a walk in the park, clues begin to add up and the history lessons become quite clear.
Strabo who comes along over 350 years after Herodotus creates a MAP and description of Nile Valley area and confirms Herodotus.
quote: In the intervening space, a branch of the river Astaboras discharges itself. It has its source in a lake, and empties part of its waters into the bay, but the larger portion it contributes to the Nile. Then follow six islands, called Latomiae, after these the Sabaïtic mouth, as it is called, and in the inland parts a fortress built by Suchus. Then a lake called Elaea, and the island of Strato; next Saba, a port, and a hunting-ground for elephants of the same name. The country deep in the interior is called Tenessis. It is occupied by those Egyptians who took refuge from the government of Psamtik III. They are surnamed Sembritae as being strangers. They are governed by a queen, to whom also Meroë, an island in the Nile near these places, is subject. Above this, at no great distance, is another island in the river, a settlement occupied by the same fugitives. From Meroë to this sea is a journey of fifteen days for an active person. Near Meroë is the confluence of the Astaboras the Astapus, and of the Astasobas.
No mention of Nubia the Rival of Kemet to the South, only 20th Century Egyptologist and Nubianologist and some careless Afrocentrics knew of it because it was located in a parallel universe that only modern day so called expert scholars can politically find.
posted
Pseudoscience contradicts itself, as can be seen by the fact that back then Nubia was associated with "dark-skinned caucasians who are a branch of the white race" and now the scholarly descendants are associating Nubia with 'negroes'.
The flip-flopping is very funny, but notice how notions of who the Egyptians were hasn't changed while Nubia has even though Nubia is just several miles from the territory of ancient Egypt.
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
I think that it's about time that we start phasing out the term "Nubia" as a euphemism for "Negro"; "Ethiopian" ; ad nauseum -- This, of course, will not be easy.
Reasons to not use the term: a) There is no region or people in the Mdu Ntr called "Nubians"; this was applied by the Romans to the gold mining region of Upper Egypt/Sudan, and comes from the Mdu Ntr "nub" for gold... b) In the Mdu Ntr "Nubi;Nubiu" simply means gold miner (s)... c) Kush/Ekush (Kushi/Ekushi) was in what is now Upper Egypt/Sudan and is NOT Nubia... d) Ethaosh are the contries on the frontier of Kemet... e) Saba/Sheba (Meroe) is in the same region and it also is NOT Nubia... f) The proper term for "Negroes"; "Ethiopians" would be "Kememu"...
Total agreement and if anyone needs proof of the Goldmines see for yourself right here:
EARLIER ACTIVITY
Exploitation of the Eastern Desert extends far back into prehistory, but at Bir Umm Fawakhir, good evidence goes back only to the late New Kingdom period (ca. 1307-1070 B.C.). Middle Kingdom, Old Kingdom, and Predynastic (roughly 3200-ca. 1783 B.C.) inscriptions are present in the Wadi Hammamat, but not at Bir Umm Fawakhir or in the Wadi el-Sid.
Roman activity is attested, though it is less extensive than when the entire site of Bir Umm Fawakhir was considered 1st-2nd century A.D. The small granite quarries were probably Roman undertakings, although possibly only exploratory.
There is a small amount of Roman pottery in Quarry 2 with quarrying marks identical to those at a known major granite quarry at Mons Claudianus. A couple of partly quarried blocks have been incorporated in 5th-6th century houses, and the Romans had an unexcelled passion for handsome and exotic stones.
The Roman period ostraca (letters and messages written on potsherds) reported as coming from Bir Umm Fawakhir pertain to military activity10 and probably came from the vicinity of the modern mines in the Wadi el-Sid.
The modern mines, operated in the 1940s and 1950s, were probably the focus of most of the ancient efforts as well. Tailings there yielded a handful of sherds of Roman, possibly Ptolemaic (334-64 B.C.), and Late Period (26th Dynasty, 664-535 B.C.) dates.
The 1996 survey located the remains of late New Kingdom activity near the Wadi el-Sid mines. The Turin Papyrus, dateable to the reign of Ramses IV of the 20th Dynasty (ca. 1163-1156 B.C.), can reasonably be read as a map to the stone quarries in the Wadi Hammamat.
The papyrus also shows a well with "a Mountain of Gold" and a "Mountain of Silver" just beyond.11
Thus, while the map indicates that pharaonic mines ought to exist in the vicinity of Bir Umm Fawakhir, the survey has only recently been able to document them. Some very large (ca. 8 m square) and heavy slabs with shallow depressions on the top, unlike the smaller and deeper Bir Umm Fawakhir grinding stones, may represent pharaonic or Ptolemaic ore reduction activities, but all stones found so far have been pushed out of any sort of context by modern road building.
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
, have posted this as a new topic; "Nubia-ruse"![[Wink]](wink.gif)
TO THINK FOR THEM.![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
because it was located in a parallel universe that only modern day so called expert scholars can politically find.
Printer-friendly view of this topic