posted
a) Because of the realities of modern Africa, NO current African language would be acceptable to those who are not connected to the particular language selected! Can you imagine the political and social consequences in say, Nigeria, if one ethnic language would be chosen as the official language of that state? The extreme opposite of this example is best illustrated by South Africa today, which has several official languages. Kind of like an official 'tower of Babel.'
b) Swahili is a manufactured language, devised for mercantile purposes and is a composite of Arabic and native African ("Bantu")languages. It is not, however, relegated to a specific ethnic group...
c) But the clearest choice, in my opinion, is to use the classical Ancient Egyptian language, revive it in the same manner that the Zionists revived the Hebrew language. (You learn from history; ALL history) It is an African classical language; it isn't specific to any African ethnic group; it is a written language...
d) To select another classical African language, such as "Meroitic" would be a cop-out to the "Nubian" ruse; it should be Pharaonic Egyptian! IMHO
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Excellent Idea but how do we move forward with it?
First those who want to *push* this language have to learn to speak it fluently.
Then, influential delegates (preferably, government official(s) within the educational system) have to be chosen in all the respective African countries who will try to work the language into the fabric of the educational system by proposing it as a language course.
I don't see this as far fetched. Just requires an *influential* person (like Nelson Mandella ) to be ethusiastic about it.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
> first you would establish an organization such as the French Adademy to recreate and update the language, and to keep it "pure."
> Then you begin to teach it as a secondary language in Secondary school (such as Nkrumah did in English-speaking Ghana with the French language), after you have established a cadre of trained specialists/teachers in the language and the required source materials.
> You make it a requirement for graduation from Secondary school and entrance to higher education.
> You also use the examples of other people's who have restored and installed a new lingua franca....
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
EXCELLENT IDEA! EXCELLENT! Ancient Egyptian ought to be the language of communication for the whole of Africa: excellent idea! It is the best idea I have heard in a minute. Salaam.
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wally, You are right about Ancient Egyptian but you point about Swahili seems questionable. If you check its syntax and morphology you will note that it is an African language with a few loan words from Arabic. The thing about it being replete with Arabic inputs is just propaganda. It is no more Arabic in content than Hausa, for example.
You claim that it is a manufactured language. Well ALL languages are manufactured especially the modern European languages which have to turn to Greek and Latin for abstract concepts and sophisticated thinking.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Wally: > first you would establish an organization such as the French Adademy to recreate and update the language, and to keep it "pure."
> Then you begin to teach it as a secondary language in Secondary school (such as Nkrumah did in English-speaking Ghana with the French language), after you have established a cadre of trained specialists/teachers in the language and the required source materials.
> You make it a requirement for graduation from Secondary school and entrance to higher education.
> You also use the examples of other people's who have restored and installed a new lingua franca....
Interesting. As pointed out earlier, one would have to have fluent speakers in this 'largely' [but not absolutely lost] defunct language. Know any examples of such people?...Yes, I know, if they aren't already out there, then such a club of people can be created by teaching people until they become fluent; nonetheless a question that almost instantly comes to mind, when looking to a 'largely' defunct language, in order to turn it into a lingua franca.
It seems that a great many cultures around the globe tend to lean towards some indigenous language for official purposes, while there are also holdouts which continue along the lines of language which colonialists imposed on them.
The majority of cultures in Asia from what I can tell, seem to use some indigenous language for official purposes, and have leaders who even refuse to use a foreign in international forums. For instance, you have world leaders come to the United Nations, who speak only in their native languages, and have others translate it to the audience. Examples of such cultures include many countries in South and Southeast Asia [India, China, Malaysia, the Koreas, Japan, etc], the Gulf Arab countries, Iran, and Eastern European countries. The Americas and Africa, are largely the places where colonial languages are utilized for official purposes. In the Americas, many of the nation states of people who call themselves "Native Americans", utilize "Spanish" or some related language for "official" purposes, while in the United States, English is utilized for the most part, though there have been attempts here to accomodate the Spanish-speaking communities via dual language [English and Spanish] service systems; then again, "Spanish" is a language imported by Spanish-speaking European colonialists into the Americas. In Canada same thing: French and English are the largely spoken official languages. In Africa, in the Northern coast nations, aside from conservative groups who are rigorously pushing for the wholesale usage of a designated "Berber" language as the official languages, "Arabic" is held onto as the official language. In Sahelian/Sub-Saharan west Africa, it is quite clear: French, English, and to a lesser degree Spanish, are utilized for official purposes. In Central and Southern Africa, again we have English, Spanish and French. In sub-Saharan East Africa, this is where we largely see African nation states utilize some indigenous language for official purposes; Ethiopia is a perfect example of this, and perhaps to some degree, Eritrea and Somalia. Not sure about Djibouti, but I suspect that they are in the same boat as the Somalis, in this respect. So, there is no other regions around the globe where cultures have clung onto foreign, usually colonialist languages, as much as "Native Americans" and indigenous Africans. Perhaps something that needs some reflection, or attract our attention at some point!
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
...One example, for starters, on reviving a 'dead' language...
quote: Experts revive 'dead' language Aug 27 2004
Daily Post
EXPERTS in Liverpool are breathing new life into the "dead" language of the Isle of Man.
Researchers at the University of Liverpool's Centre for Manx Studies have been awarded a £70,000 grant from the Manx Heritage Foundation to discover more about Manx Gaelic language.
The language experienced a sharp decline in the 19th century, virtually dying out among the people of Man and being officially pronounced dead by the academic world.
But over the past 30 years, Manx Gaelic has undergone a revival with more people than ever keen to speak it.
Dr Kewley Draskau will be travelling to the island to conduct the research at the Centre for Manx Studies.
Keep in mind also, that there is a great wealth of printed research on the "Ancient Egyptian" language...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by lamin: Wally, You are right about Ancient Egyptian but you point about Swahili seems questionable. If you check its syntax and morphology you will note that it is an African language with a few loan words from Arabic. The thing about it being replete with Arabic inputs is just propaganda. It is no more Arabic in content than Hausa, for example.
You claim that it is a manufactured language. Well ALL languages are manufactured especially the modern European languages which have to turn to Greek and Latin for abstract concepts and sophisticated thinking.
posted
Some examples of the methodology that can be used to revive the Pharaonic Egyptian language:
a) We know that the Mdu Ntr word for "not" is written "nn" In Coptic, this word is pronounced "Anon" In Yoruba, this word is pronounced "En En"
The institute would then make further comparisons to Beja, Oromo, etc., as to the pronounciation of this word in those languages to determine the precise vocalic of the original Mdu Ntr word.
b) The written Mdu Ntr expression "Jnk Nfr" is gibberish to anyone wanting to speak the language; to one merely "reading" it, it is easy to see that the expression means "I am good/pleasant" In Coptic, the word for "I am" is pronounced "Anok", so we understand that, at least in Coptic "Jnk" is pronounced "Anok" - It may have a more perfect rendering in the Beja languages.
In Coptic, the word for "goodness" is pronounced "Noufre" - it too, may also have a more perfect rendering in other related languages, as Budge correctly suggested; there are several Sudanese languages with the word "Nfr" in them and which means the same as the word in the Mdu Ntr.
As Diop also demonstrated, the Mdu Ntr word for "to seize" - "kf" is more perfectly rendered in Wolof - "Kef" than in Coptic - "Keh"
Thus, the grammar and structure of the language has already been laid out by scholars, survives in Coptic, and other African languages; the point of departure for the restoration of the language is in restoring the vocalics of the language. This would be the task of the Pharaonic Egyptian Academy, that would ideally be under the sponsorship of the African Union...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^ Excellent. Perhaps someone needs to write a book? A linguist well versed in the Mdu Ntr would be the perfect candidate.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
i am an african who does not want to unite with any one, except if i clearly see monetary benefit from it, for my people, same colour will not pay.
posted
Wally, Thanks for the post. I checked you reference and it says in the first sentence that Swahili is basically an African language with borrowings from other languages--such as Arabic on account of the influence of the Koran.
But other African languages also have loan words from Arabic--Hausa, Wolof, Mandinka, etc. on account of the spread of Islam--yet such is not pushed as in the case of Swahili. I suspect it was because there were some people arguing for Swahili being a lingua franca(Wole Soyinka) for Africa and some of its culture and linguistic concepts adopted by African American nationalists some years ago.
The anti-African cohorts quickly jumped in with the counter-claim that "Swahili wasn't a real African language". Stephen Howe(Afrocentrism) states that Swahili has "substantially Arabic origins" and that its "development [derives] in large part as a medium for slave trading". This is where the chatter about Swahili being less than an African(Bantu) languages originates.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by herukhuti: ^^ Excellent. Perhaps someone needs to write a book? A linguist well versed in the Mdu Ntr would be the perfect candidate.
I agree with your premise, however, there are experts such as Obenga, whose writings is adding to this body of knowledge as well as young Africans in places such as Senegal and other mostly "French" speaking countries also adding to this knowledge. It merely needs central organization and financing. ...And as to the financing, it wouldn't probably cost as much as a shiningly new, and hopelessly ineffectual fighter jet in the, say, Nigerian airforce!
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^ LOL Nigeria is a basket case of a country. It will take blowing up (literally ) some key political personalities, re-writing the constitution, educating the people... never mind
How about what lamin said about Swahilis' validity as a pan-African language, what do you think?
Also, can't the development of the Mdu Ntr language be spearheaded by a 'special' website?
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Excellent idea, what form would the written version be ?
As a way of popularizing it there would have to be content created that utilized it, I suggest either translations or original short stories or even comic books.
posted
I believe the selection of a Pan-African language would be just as silly and as futile as the selection of a Pan-East Asian language or a Pan-European language.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
there is already a Pan-European language! It's English Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
I believe the selection of a Pan-African language would be just as silly and as futile as the selection of a Pan-East Asian language or a Pan-European language.
Futile, maybe; silly, I think not. And you are right in your assessment about the idea of Pan-European or Pan-East Asian language. In Europe for instance, Germans don't like to speak in English, and their leaders almost always prefer to deliver their message via translation in international forums; same for the French, and Italians. Likewise, the Chinese and the North Koreans from east Asia for instance, use their respective languages in international forums. The best example of a vast geographical space that encompasses a number of countries utilizing a common language which developed in the region, and utilized as the primary language both at the general populace level and state level, is southwest Asia; this language would be Arabic.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
God damnit i had to register cause i get so mad of your ignorance. Where the ancient egyptians black? wath is black? Its something made up in the west from the europeans. If you go to Gambia as an afroamerican they will think you are white! America is a big mix, there is nothing pure there. There is only accents not race. If you go to france you can see someone that is from south and north. If you go to italy you can see where hes from by looking at his race, sicillian, milano?
Its so simple belive me, you can not have an opinion if you are american and think that there is a black race.
There are africans that are almost blue with green eyes! There are east africans that dont look black at all but have black skinn.
The "negroid" nose exists in mongolians as well, and ccentral asian races such as uzbeks, and seljuks. Its all so simple if you can leave your black and white world.
Where the ancient egyptians "black" is yes and no. Todays afroamericans are not black, they are half breeds. They have been tainted with celtic, germanian, gaul and Helenic blood from Europe.
Their ancestors where european slave lords and west african slaves that dont have any relations with andcient egyptians at all.
Your people had civilizations to, like Timbuktu.
In Iran we have many races! We have people that looks like west africans, same nose and lips. We have asian looking people. We have arabic. We have indian(persian). We have people that are blond and blueeyed. This is because that Iran is in the center of the world. Its like Central asia.
Dont consider somalis your brothers, they dont give a damn about half breeds in america that had ancestors comming from another part of africa.
For Nubians being a civilization, well... There have been a lot of empires taking Egypt, but no one ever went to Nubia, but the egyptians had colonies there.
-------------------- Sassanid pride Posts: 17 | From: At Home | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Wally: > first you would establish an organization such as the French Adademy to recreate and update the language, and to keep it "pure."
> Then you begin to teach it as a secondary language in Secondary school (such as Nkrumah did in English-speaking Ghana with the French language), after you have established a cadre of trained specialists/teachers in the language and the required source materials.
> You make it a requirement for graduation from Secondary school and entrance to higher education.
> You also use the examples of other people's who have restored and installed a new lingua franca....
Tell me what I can do to help make this happen and I will get right on it!
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sassanid: God damnit i had to register cause i get so mad of your ignorance. Where the ancient egyptians black? wath is black? Its something made up in the west from the europeans. If you go to Gambia as an afroamerican they will think you are white! America is a big mix, there is nothing pure there. There is only accents not race. If you go to france you can see someone that is from south and north. If you go to italy you can see where hes from by looking at his race, sicillian, milano?
Its so simple belive me, you can not have an opinion if you are american and think that there is a black race.
There are africans that are almost blue with green eyes! There are east africans that dont look black at all but have black skinn.
The "negroid" nose exists in mongolians as well, and ccentral asian races such as uzbeks, and seljuks. Its all so simple if you can leave your black and white world.
Where the ancient egyptians "black" is yes and no. Todays afroamericans are not black, they are half breeds. They have been tainted with celtic, germanian, gaul and Helenic blood from Europe.
Their ancestors where european slave lords and west african slaves that dont have any relations with andcient egyptians at all.
Your people had civilizations to, like Timbuktu.
In Iran we have many races! We have people that looks like west africans, same nose and lips. We have asian looking people. We have arabic. We have indian(persian). We have people that are blond and blueeyed. This is because that Iran is in the center of the world. Its like Central asia.
Dont consider somalis your brothers, they dont give a damn about half breeds in america that had ancestors comming from another part of africa.
For Nubians being a civilization, well... There have been a lot of empires taking Egypt, but no one ever went to Nubia, but the egyptians had colonies there.
Do you have a problem with African Americans because whether you accept it or not... they have African ancestors...
Some East African and some West African but they do have African in them.
If they have been tainted which most have as myself, does that make us any less connected to African. Do we not have a right to our ancestors, or a right to claim our ancestors?
Or do you give into the American theory that our history starts in America? Should a people be hated because our people were enslaved and raped by Europeans? Your anger seems to be mis-directed.
If you believe that there were no Africans in America prior to the invasion of Europeans then where did I get by brownish-RED color from?
If it didn't come from this land then my root heritage is in Africa where my greater grandfather feet once walked...
I have just as much right to utilize my speach in concerns to ALL PARTS OF AFRICA as do anyone from IRAN or AFRICA.
PERIOD!!
Peace!~
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: HIPHOP (a.k.a. Herukhuti) wrote: ^^ LOL Nigeria is a basket case of a country. It will take blowing up (literally ) some key political personalities, re-writing the constitution, educating the people... never mind
You are absolutely correct about the 'country' of Nigeria; it's literally a den of thieves whose main industries are corruption, larceny, and fraud!
quote: HIPHOP also wrote: How about what lamin said about Swahilis' validity as a pan-African language, what do you think?
There's nothing invalid about lamin's defense of Kiswahili as a possible pan-African language. The points that I made about it being a language used for commerce was taken from the introduction to a book I once had when I was studying the language (I have since learned that you should NEVER loan any possession of yours to even a close friend; people never seem to return things that they "borrow.") Kiswahili is a non-Ethnic African language as I have already stated. I, personally would prefer a Classical African Language - the Mdu Ntr, since Pan-Africanism - a United States of Africa - would be the re-birth of African civilization. That's all...
posted
Do you have a problem with African Americans because whether you accept it or not... they have African ancestors...
Some East African and some West African but they do have African in them.
If they have been tainted which most have as myself, does that make us any less connected to African. Do we not have a right to our ancestors, or a right to claim our ancestors?
Or do you give into the American theory that our history starts in America? Should a people be hated because our people were enslaved and raped by Europeans? Your anger seems to be mis-directed.
If you believe that there were no Africans in America prior to the invasion of Europeans then where did I get by brownish-RED color from?
Your brownish red colour comes from your tainted blood. America is a nation of freaks. You can not see a person and know that he is from the east or the west coast. Its unnaturall.
There was a chinese antrophologist that went to america to see how the 4th generation chinese had evolved. They had gotten bigger cheeckbones much like the native americans.
This is how it is, enviorment changes people. The water can change your eye colour. The temprature the shape of your nose. The suns radiation level the shape of your eyes...
In normal nations like in africa you can determine where people are from and wath race they are. In america there is a consept of "black and white". To divide people by a black race is disturbing.
Study african culture, you would be suprised by their racial knowledge. They can tell about 100 diffrent tribes and races, and they all look very diffrent and have diffrent heights. South africans are extreemly tall, gambians are very short. Gambians are pitch black.
Another thing i would want to ask you afro americans is if you know that arabs in yemen looks exactly the same as north somalis? North West africa and the middle East poppulation looks pretty much the same. "africa" is a map drawn by europeans. It has nothing to do with race. The red sea have been a lot thinner. Can you imagine the ancient egyptians being closer to Middle easterns that other african people such as sudanese? Ancient egypt had been a part of many nations, some stretchedover entire north africa. here are some. This man is very black and have negroid features. the man behind him is also very black but dosent. http://www.eritrea-hilfswerk.de/images/Bilder_aus_Eritrea/referendum_copt_3_200x300.jpg
Now wath does this tell you? Maybe all of you afroamericans here should drop the "black people" act and realize that people are the same. People by the coast lines in egypt a darker and is getting more further south.
So to end all this discussion, The ancient egyptians where egyptians. They where nothing more. There where no africa back then, only Egypt and north africa. google for berber, the native north africans, you will be suprised how some looks like whoppie goldberg while others like J.Lo.
I wish i have gotten some sence in you all so that you might one day drop the all american "black people" thing that is alien to the worl outside america.
Posts: 17 | From: At Home | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Europeans for centuries have been ruling the world with this superiority complex. While ruling with this complex, they are telling us that colour doesn't matter; while at the same time changing the true appearance of a people.
I agree that color shouldn't be an issue, but because it has been made one, it is the duty of those who are educated in these matters to maintain historical accuracy. It has been proven time and time again, that humanity start in Africa... thus all human are related according to these findings.
Yet, Africa and it children have been the target for bigotry.
Sassanid wrote:
Your brownish red colour comes from your tainted blood. America is a nation of freaks. You can not see a person and know that he is from the east or the west coast. Its unnaturall.
In one part of your post your calling all of humanity the same and then in another part I am freakishly mixed??? Interesting....
How is my color any different from Ethiopians of East Africa to the Wolo, Afar of West Africa?? Must I be consider freakish because I'm an African American (not afro... remember my forefather walked on the soil of Africa and was born on the soil of Africa which makes me a product of Africa)
My grandfather told me a story of AFRICAN WOMEN getting raped by Europeans and when they got pregnant the baby was delievered and they would kill the baby... My family was a product of that as was explained to me by my grandfather.
Every African American isn't mixed but a great amount of us are... I for one is a product of mixture because my mothers family was full blood Native American. thus I am half Native American i.e.
WoW...
Posts: 951 | From: where rules end and freedom begins | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
who the HECK is this chump calling African-Americans half-breeds! Dude, seriously, if you EVER said that in Harlem New York.......... You BETTER be VERY careful of what you say.............See, this is what I HATE about the internet. You got some dudes who are probably cowards, talking crap that they would NEVER, EVER say in broad daylight. Dude, you BETTER watch how you talk. If you want to be an idiot fine, but if you represent Iran, then maybe Pres. Bush and Israel ought to bomb the HELL outta ya! Yeah, I don't like the war waged by the U.S. pres., but if you are a representation of the political leaders of Iran, then maybe you should be bombed and humiliated. My ancestors were humiliated, and we are rising up making them proud of our progress, and then some internet troll starts talking trash........anyway, Ausar, you got some deleting to do for real!
RU RELIGIOUS,
you are real kind to this guy. I edited some of my words cause I came VERY MUCH STRONGER. I look like alot of Africans, yet I do have some "other" in my bloodline: SO WHAT! King Tut looks like ME! ME! He DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER, LOOK LIKE A MIDDLE EASTERNER(unless he is a Black Middle Easterner). And I am Black, so get over it. Ain't no Black person in America gonna deny who they are..........Anyway. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^Sassanid, do you have a problem with your black ancestors-- the Elamites who originated civilization in Iran?? Those pics you put is called mossaic. Its decoration and i hav enever in my life seen those pics before! I dont say they are fake only that its art and not skinn colour. All people come from africa, But that pic is of immortals, and they existed during the Acheamad dinasty. They where fresh persians 400 years after arriving from Aryastan, an old kingdom over northen India.
-------------------- Sassanid pride Posts: 17 | From: At Home | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
This dude Sassanid probably isn't Iranian. He is probably a friend of Kawaka. I'm telling you this is how it is. One troll comes, and then they flood.....lol. By the way troll, I mean Sassanid, that picture of Elamites is a real picture. Jehuti, Rasol, Takruri, and friends, start busting out the pictures. Salaam
But he is a troll, hence he won't believe anyway. The sky is blue, yet he will believe that it is purple, EVEN IF PLAIN AS DAY IT IS BLUE......Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Israel: This dude Sassanid probably isn't Iranian. He is probably a friend of Kawaka. I'm telling you this is how it is. One troll comes, and then they flood.....lol. By the way troll, I mean Sassanid, that picture of Elamites is a real picture. Jehuti, Rasol, Takruri, and friends, start busting out the pictures. Salaam
But he is a troll, hence he won't believe anyway. The sky is blue, yet he will believe that it is purple, EVEN IF PLAIN AS DAY IT IS BLUE......Salaam
Okay then it was nice art! there are more paintings all over iran that shows them as non black. Im gonna explain persian art for you. It was all black, the marble black and gold. Those 2 statues where made black to, it was carved out.
Persians and hebrews where one people once. Do you know Avesta? its the old persian religion wich Judaism came out of. there is a lot persian in judaism, like the one and only god, the comming of messiah, heaven and limbo, angels. This is all from 6000BC.
That candle with several heads where found in old Avesta temples.
Posts: 17 | From: At Home | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
God damnit i had to register cause i get so mad of your ignorance. Where the ancient egyptians black? wath is black? Its something made up in the west from the europeans. If you go to Gambia as an afroamerican they will think you are white! America is a big mix, there is nothing pure there.
You must be in company with ignorant folks, because that is one heck of a lie you just mounted there. Light skin coastal "Berber" groups, and Southwest Asian immigrants, are not considered as "White" in the Gambia; what makes you think that they are so blinded to assume Black Americans as "whites"? How on this green earth, did you come to such a conclusion; do you even know the word reserved for "Whites" in The Gambia?
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Sassanid: ..Those pics you put is called mossaic...
Yes, I know what a mossiac is.
quote:..Its decoration and i hav enever in my life seen those pics before!...
A shame someone so proud of his national heritage has not seen his own ancient artwork.
quote:..I dont say they are fake only that its art and not skinn colour...
So I take it you interpret the art to be symbolic and not realistic.
quote:All people come from africa, But that pic is of immortals, and they existed during the Acheamad dinasty. They where fresh persians 400 years after arriving from Aryastan, an old kingdom over northen India.
You correct in only one thing. The archers depicted are 'Immortals'-- The elite royal guard of the Persian royals. However, many of the Immortals were not Persians but were Elamites who were the indigenous black people of Iran and NOT Persians themselves. You are correct that Persians like the ancestors of Vedic Indians traced their homeland to a place called Aryavarta; however that place was most likely located in Central Asia around Afghanistan.
quote:Originally posted by Sassanid: Okay then it was nice art! there are more paintings all over iran that shows them as non black. Im gonna explain persian art for you. It was all black, the marble black and gold. Those 2 statues where made black to, it was carved out.
LOL And there were different types of people living in Iran. You even said so yourself that people in Iran ranged from 'Arab'-looking to Indian-looking, to European-looking, to black-looking! Are now contradicting yourself??
quote:Persians and hebrews where one people once. Do you know Avesta? its the old persian religion wich Judaism came out of. there is a lot persian in judaism, like the one and only god, the comming of messiah, heaven and limbo, angels. This is all from 6000BC.
That candle with several heads where found in old Avesta temples.
I do not doubt that the early Zoroastrianism religion of Persia had influences on Judaic beliefs, especially since Isreal was under Persian domination.
But as far as Hebrews and Persians being "one people" that itself is another issue. There is a possibility you are right since Genesis describes the ancestors of the Hebrews as coming from Mesopotamia and the ancestors of Mesopotamians coming from the East. Ultimately many peoples in the northern part of the Near East may have origins in Central Asia.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Q So I take it you interpret the art to be symbolic and not realistic. ----------- A Exactly, black marlbour was more expencie and beautifull than white. White marlbour was cheap and not glorius. This is from persepolis recreated, they have archeologist that reconstructed it. See all black marlbour and gold.
The persians and the once creating all this where not black, but black people where fellow citizens. ------------ Q You correct in only one thing. The archers depicted are 'Immortals'-- The elite royal guard of the Persian royals. However, many of the Immortals were not Persians but were Elamites who were the indigenous black people of Iran and NOT Persians themselves. You are correct that Persians like the ancestors of Vedic Indians traced their homeland to a place called Aryavarta; however that place was most likely located in Central Asia around Afghanistan.
A "Aryastan" exact position is disputed, it have been in a lot of places. Central Asia was a part of it to. There are many persians there even today. Most Tajikistan and people in Samarkan speak persian. But it was originated from northen India. ----------- Q And there were different types of people living in Iran. You even said so yourself that people in Iran ranged from 'Arab'-looking to Indian-looking, to European-looking, to black-looking! Are now contradicting yourself??
A No i am not. Iran has panthers in the north, iv seen them myself. I have never seen the Jaguar but here is one.
Iran has savannas in south central, it has elephants, in the north there are also mouses and raindeers. Iran IS the center of the world, some parts are like canadian forests. others like a gambian savanna. It got races of all people to and they are natives. made "negroid" "asian" etc all naturally. ------------ Q I do not doubt that the early Zoroastrianism religion of Persia had influences on Judaic beliefs, especially since Isreal was under Persian domination.
But as far as Hebrews and Persians being "one people" that itself is another issue. There is a possibility you are right since Genesis describes the ancestors of the Hebrews as coming from Mesopotamia and the ancestors of Mesopotamians coming from the East. Ultimately many peoples in the northern part of the Near East may have origins in Central Asia.
A Hebrews come from India, Armenians are from India, ITs called "Indo-European".
Posts: 17 | From: At Home | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Israel: [QB] This dude Sassanid probably isn't Iranian. He is probably a friend of Kawaka.
Sassanid is Kawashkar! He also goes by the name "Salsassin" on other forums. More information about this character soon to come.
Posts: 148 | From: Sirius | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Israel: [QB] This dude Sassanid probably isn't Iranian. He is probably a friend of Kawaka.
Sassanid is Kawashkar! He also goes by the name "Salsassin" on other forums. More information about this character soon to come.
Lol.
Salsassin and me are TWO different individuals. He is Peruvian, blond and of French/Quechua/Black origin. He is an afro-descendent activist.
I am Chilean, brown and of Spanish-Native background. And I put in doubt "Afro-descendent wannabies" (Afro-descendents that don't look Black, but White or Native, like "Salsassin")
He worries about Afrodescendent groups. My concern are Native Americans.
He believes Garifunas are Amerindians I believe they aren't, etc.
We aregue a lot. We share, though, the same ideas on the topics of Amerindians and we laugh together on the Van Sertima's "Black Olmecs" pseudo-historical books.
a troll you are. Disrespectful thou art........The statue that you showed probably was a Black dude. If he was an Elamite King, then he definitely was Black. But I have seen that king before, and I thought it was Babylonian.......are you SURE of what you are showing, cause if you wrong, I'll call you out on what you don't know...........
Also, as Jehuti already spoke on, Jews and Persians were not "one" people. That is ludacris. That is like saying that the Jews were influenced by Akhnaton simply because he worshipped one god......that is ridiculous. From what I understand, Zoroaster spoke of the most High God as being equated with the sun. In other words, God was the sun! Therefore, Jews and Persians cannot be one cause the Bible is filled with references of not bowing down to anything, even the sun, moon, and stars.............Cmon man, I thought you were a scholar. Maybe you are just a .........I was gonna insult you, but why should I? I'll let God show you why your comments were less than appropriate. Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
Topic Closed
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) to be ethusiastic about it.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
I believe the selection of a Pan-African language would be just as silly and as futile as the selection of a Pan-East Asian language or a Pan-European language.
Printer-friendly view of this topic