posted
Is anyone familiar with the recent History Channel broadcast wherein it was proven that Hebrew slaves did, in fact, inhabit AE and that their tales of woe are etched inside of cave walls along the nile. Further, the presenter supposedly proves that these same slaves were the creators of the first alphabet, approx 3000bc. According to the host, the translations themselves not only prove enslavement but also backs up much of the Biblical record of the time of Moses, etc., etc. Because I caught only the last 10 minutes or so of the program I can't supply much information, names, places, etc and I'm hoping someone on this forum caught the broadcast and can fill in the blanks. I appreciate your response.
Posts: 23 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
^^I too would like to know the specifics of these "Biblical" context "slaves", when the Pyramid worker quarters and the area where alphabetic writing [along with its dating] contradict what the program seems to be proclaiming.
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I doubt that they created an alphabet, but anything is possible I guess. What I do know is that there are writings found in the Sinai Peninsula specifying the accounts of the Exodus that is not identical to Hebrew scriptures, but very much the same type of accounts concerning the Red Sea, being in the wilderness, etc.
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Well the bible is about as true as Tim Allen being santa claus lol, but what exactly is the name of this show..it isn't "Decoding the Exodus" is it?
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posted
Indeed, the Biblical Exodus was supposed to have happened well within the Dynastic period, and at that, somewhat late in that era. The proto-Sinaitic/Canaanite style alphabets uncovered in the Upper Nile Valley predate the examples found in the Sinai region, and subsequently in the Levant. It dates back to ca. 3400 BC. This goes back to pre-dynastic Kemet. Plus, there is no evidence of slavery in the region of the said 'discovery' in question.
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posted
WEll i have heard that they found evidence that proves that Jews were in Egypt because there are tomb writings with the word Haribu but they say that those haribus were none other than regular egyptians who left with this Akenaten type guy who lead them to Israel but they never claimed that they were the same Jews that the Bible talks about and there is no way that Haribus created the first written language come on When Abraham arrived in Egypt the Pyramids were already there.
-------------------- Hikuptah Al-Masri Posts: 526 | From: Aswan Egypt | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Thank you everone for your reply Also. I may have caught this program on the Discovery Channel - not the History channel.
Supercar said... ^^I too would like to know the specifics of these "Biblical" context "slaves", when the Pyramid worker quarters and the area where alphabetic writing [along with its dating] contradict what the program seems to be proclaiming. ________________________________________________
I thought so.
Israel said... Well,
I doubt that they created an alphabet, but anything is possible I guess. What I do know is that there are writings found in the Sinai Peninsula specifying the accounts of the Exodus that is not identical to Hebrew scriptures, but very much the same type of accounts concerning the Red Sea, being in the wilderness, etc. ________________________________________________
I'm unaware of this, although I hasten to add that I wouldn't exactly call myself well-read on the subject.
Tutemkasret said... Well the bible is about as true as Tim Allen being santa claus lol, but what exactly is the name of this show..it isn't "Decoding the Exodus" is it? _________________________________________________
I have seen previews for "Decoding the Exodus" in the last month or so and it is possible that I saw the last 10 minutes of same, but I'm not sure. I can google it and see if a name pops out at me or a familiar reference from it.
Supercar said... Indeed, the Biblical Exodus was supposed to have happened well within the Dynastic period, and at that, somewhat late in that era. The proto-Sinaitic/Canaanite style alphabets uncovered in the Upper Nile Valley predate the examples found in the Sinai region, and subsequently in the Levant. It dates back to ca. 3400 BC. This goes back to pre-dynastic Kemet. Plus, there is no evidence of slavery in the region of the said 'discovery' in question. _________________________________________________
Hmmmm. This is, as yet, outside the scope of my knowledge. What knowledge I do think I possess was scuttled by those last 10 minutes of the program. Given the Exodus time-line, 3000 BC, first alphabet, etc., I wasn't left with a feeling that the corners all met, so-to-speak. But it's always dangerous to draw conclusions with only a partial presentation. That's why I've come to the forum to inquire, in the hope that someone else had seen it.
Hikuptah said... WEll i have heard that they found evidence that proves that Jews were in Egypt because there are tomb writings with the word Haribu but they say that those haribus were none other than regular egyptians who left with this Akenaten type guy who lead them to Israel but they never claimed that they were the same Jews that the Bible talks about and there is no way that Haribus created the first written language come on When Abraham arrived in Egypt the Pyramids were already there. ________________________________________________
Hikuptah, can you provide links or references for those tomb writings of Haribu? Also, I'd very much appreciate references on Akhenaton leading the Haribus out of Egypt to Israel.
This is an area of great interest to me. Can any of you recommend an unbiased scholar(s) whose studies focus on Biblical texts and AE? Again, I greatly appreciate your input.
Oh, one more thing, for what it's worth. The host of the program made it clear that he WAS NOT a scholar. I got the impression that his agenda was to prove the existence of Hebrew slaves at the time of the Biblical Exodus. Within those last ten minutes there was one scholar interviewed who did not agree with the assertions of the host. In the final moments of the program the host presented his case as indisputable - beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Posts: 23 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by tutemkasret: Well the bible is about as true as Tim Allen being santa claus --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any proof?
Sorry I cannot "PROVE" a "negative" and I'm quite sure you can't either
quote: Indeed, the Biblical Exodus was supposed to have happened well within the Dynastic period, and at that, somewhat late in that era. The proto-Sinaitic/Canaanite style alphabets uncovered in the Upper Nile Valley predate the examples found in the Sinai region, and subsequently in the Levant. It dates back to ca. 3400 BC. This goes back to pre-dynastic Kemet. Plus, there is no evidence of slavery in the region of the said 'discovery' in question.
Hmmmm. This is, as yet, outside the scope of my knowledge. What knowledge I do think I possess was scuttled by those last 10 minutes of the program. Given the Exodus time-line, 3000 BC, first alphabet, etc., I wasn't left with a feeling that the corners all met, so-to-speak. But it's always dangerous to draw conclusions with only a partial presentation. That's why I've come to the forum to inquire, in the hope that someone else had seen it.
When watching such shows, diversification of information and updating oneself with the latest findings, will allow one to avoid becoming a victim of any potential misinformation. The underlying point of my post is this:
First one would have to prove that there were slaves in predynastic "Upper Egypt" around ca. 3400 B.C., because alphabetic writings in that region have been estimated to go back to about this period.
Then one would have to prove that these were Semitic speakers from the Levant. This means proving migration from the Levant and then up the Nile. Needless to say, as such, one would expect to find proto-Sinaitic/Canaanite script in the Delta and Lower Nile Valley regions, which should predate the "Upper Nile" valley counterparts, and given the location of the Lower Nile Valley, one would expect it to be relatively easier to find such material than in Upper Egypt; this however, has not clearly been the case. One would also then have to prove that these material were left by "Slaves" from the Levant in predynastic "Lower Egypt". On top of this, "Proto-Sinaitic/Canaanite" script should have proven to be older in the Levant than in Sinai, which hasn't been the case, and in turn, the ones found in Sinai should have proven to be older than the ones in the Nile Valley, which again, hasn't been the case.
Proto-Sinaitic has been shown to be a development of hieroglyphics, which again, has all its development stages found in the "Upper Nile Valley", not the "lower" Nile Valley of Egypt. One would expect to see opposite trends, if one were to insinuate the spread of writing development from the northward to southward direction. One would have to place Egyptian "hieroglyphics" outside of the Nile Valley. Need not have to say again, that this has clearly not been the case.
In order to prove that there was a predynastic exodus of non-indigenous "Semitic" speaking folks from the Nile Valley, one would have to layout when the said non-indigenes [who were already established "Semitic" speakers] initially migrated into the Nile Valley, and then when, and under what circumstances, these foreign Semitic speakers left the Nile Valley in the predynastic era. Haven't seen any evidence of this yet.
As far as those who eventually called themselves "Isrealites" in the Levant, this topic has been dealt with many times on this board, but more recently, here are a few topics that touched on the matter:
Last but not least, one would have to prove, as the Biblical advocates like to claim, that Pyramid builders were "Semitic" speaking "slaves". There are yet more obstacles that these advocates would face in their effort of proving their theories, as one goes much further than the few points that I have spelt out herein thus far.
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quote:Originally posted by tutemkasret: quote:Originally posted by tutemkasret: Well the bible is about as true as Tim Allen being santa claus
Israel said: Any proof?
Tut said: Sorry I cannot "PROVE" a "negative" and I'm quite sure you can't either
If you can't prove what you say, then maybe you ought not say anything........ . Salaam
Posts: 826 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2006
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To Seeking, thank you for saving me the time. I guess that's it then. It was the last 10 minutes of the Exodus Decoded, confirmed. Didn't realize it had been a two-hour extravaganza, fully loaded with bells and whistles. Pretty stunning production, sorry I missed the whole thing. After watching that clip from the link you sent I'll have to retract the, "In the final moments of the program the host presented his case as indisputable - beyond a shadow of a doubt." At least on the clip he appears to suggest his findings - while not conclusive - there is now tremendous evidence in support of Biblical text. (Just felt I needed to correct myself, in fairness.) Also, that link led to some very interesting sites. thanks again.
To Supercar, Very meaty forum link. I'll have that as my reading project for the next week. I really appreciate it. Wouldn't it be great if someone had the time and inclination to archive this entire forum?... How much would that pay? I'm serious!
Posts: 23 | From: New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I saw the show in question and the inscription they used in it was the exact same one that was presented here relating to Sinaitic(sp) script used by miners in AE controlled mines in the Sinai.
Apparently the Sinaitic script originated somewhere along the Nile before it turned up in the Sinai.
IIRC there are pics of the writing somewhere in this forum that show little sphinx artifacts with proto Siniatic scribble.
I found the show very disappointing though I should have expected no better from a writer, and should've known he'd only twist the facts that trained professional specialists laid out for him into some kind of grossly inaccurates sophisticated wild (pack)ass guessology.
Archaeological "proofs" of Israelite departure from KM.t remain to be found. Jumbling up evidence from different eras and fudging the figures only serve to convince the already swayed.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
^Yes, and such sloppy scholarship reminds me of someone on this board. Posts: 26316 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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