posted
Did they ever resolve whether or not J haplotype is indigenous to Africa or a "tropically adapted" haplotype within the Ethiopian population or no? Also if the E mixed with the J in the levant with the natufians was that J tropically adapted at that time aswell?
thanks in advance
Posts: 141 | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:tutemkraset: Did they ever resolve whether or not J haplotype is indigenous to Africa or a "tropically adapted" haplotype within the Ethiopian population or no?
It's from Middle East! Not everything is from Africa!
Posts: 1420 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Lineages aren't phenotype, so how are they supposed to be 'cold' or 'tropically' adapted?
If this is the case then why do they say Egyptians are Tropically adapted or even BLACK because of the E haplotype?
Posts: 141 | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Who says E haplotype causes tropical adaptation or blackness?
The relationship is as follows.
Tropical adaptation is a physical adaptation to tropical climate.
Y chromosome haplotypes are a lineage.
Haplotype E originates in tropical Africa, among people adapted to a tropical climate.
Haplotype J originates in SouthWest Asia. It progenators were likely not as tropically adapted as Haplotype E lineage.
Nor were they as cold adapted as later Northern Eurasians would become.
This is simply because tropical adaptation is ancient, and cold adaptation is recent.
Spelling out the obvious - this in turn - is because all humans originate in tropical Africa.
Genetically human beings have unique melanocortin receptor for skin color that evolved among hominids over a million years ago concordant with the loss of fur [another tropical adaptation] and the addition of sweat glans [another tropical adaptation].
Most dark skinned - melanodermic - humans retain this million year old gene in unmodified form.
Lecoderm Europeans have unique adaptations to the their skin color receptor that impede production of Melanin which are as recent as 12 thousand years old.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Wow thats pretty interesting so do you have the studies that show leucoderms recent adaptation 12 thousand years ago?
Also, in the debate about the J haplogroup in Ethiopians and in the Natufians in the levant is it safe to say these are lineages from arab/asiatic type people in Ethiopia or no? How old is the J haplotype that mixed with Natufians and the J haplotype that is mixed in Ethiopians today?
Posts: 141 | Registered: Oct 2006
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I never said there was any debate. I said that it was introduced to Ethiopia by the Natufians, who were most likely an Afro-Arab mix.
Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
^We don't know what color, let alone exact complexion these people had from their physical remains. The only thing that can be inferred are traits like facial features.
From Brace et al.
^Notice that he places Natufian craniofacial features close to Niger-Congo peoples. If that gives you a better idea.
Other than that, I believe you have an unhealthy fixation on peoples' phenotypic features.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^We don't know what color, let alone exact complexion these people had from their physical remains.
It certainly won't rob Greeks of their tropical African ancestry, and in any case, if contemporary Greeks are any indications, they were likely darker than Horemheb's fantasy "Indo-European" speaking Nordics who were supposed to have been the "Neolithic" farming forebearers of Greek culture.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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They don't. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that, but I meant Afro-West Asian.
Okay. Importantly, your main point, which was about Africa's claims regarding the "debate about the origin of haplogroup J" not having any basis, was taken.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Again, Tutemuskrat seems to have some vexation or obsession with haplotypes and phenotypes. It's very much like racialists.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Coming back to my prior posts can we identify a population where the original haplogroup J* came from, if it was ever identified in any population? Thanks.
quote:Coming back to my prior posts can we identify a population where the original haplogroup J* came from, if it was ever identified in any population? Thanks
Haplogroup J evolved in the ancient Near East and was carried into North Africa, Europe, Central Asia, Pakistan and India. [Source]
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Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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The IJ haplogroup characterizes part of the second wave of emigration from Africa that occurred via the Middle East 45,000 years bp and defines two branches I and J that emigrated northwards and eastwards into Europe. The J branch subsequently split again and contributed to the current North African population.
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Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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Maybe those who migrated to Europe directly from Africa, but what about those in the Levant especially those who carried J?
All peoples were originally black, but J evolved outside of Africa among Southwest Asians. Also, the Natufians were distinguished from the remains of other groups said to be aboriginal to the area. It could be that these J carriers looked no different from stereotypical Bedouin and other light-skinned 'Middle-Easterners' today, or perhaps not considering the physical appearance of the Elamites.
But even the ancient Egyptians distinguished the early Levantine peoples as being lighter in complexion, most but not all.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Imo Yom, at least from the exchanges I had with him, gave me the impression of someone who was more concerned about how the presence of "J" lineages might be utilized to interpret the 'authenticity' of Ethiopian cultural heritage, as it pertains to the architects of such; in other words, guarded about the possiblity of the accomplishments of his people being wrongly attributed to foreigners, which wouldn't be perculiar to him, as virtually nobody likes to see that happen to their heritage.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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...which would be applicable to your 'mind-reading' post about what he was presumably trying to do; so yeah, he is capable of speaking for himself, and doesn't need you to 'read' his mind, spouting out stuff you have no evidence of.
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Fine by me; I don't come here to entertain anybody, and if that happens as an on-the-side issue, oh well. I come here to dispel disinformation propaganda and myths, regardless of who decides to exchange with me or not. In otherwords, you say something questionable, you'll be called on it!
Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
As it pertains to what I've presumably "unwittingly" assisted you in, that citation doesn't seem to be attempting to "erase" J lineages in Ethiopians. As matter of fact, it is 'acknowledging' it.
As it pertains to the rest of your earlier post, as you put it:
I believe that Yom can talk for himself...Posts: 5964 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Correct, but my posts were directed towards Yom to indicate that the presence of ancient J haplogroup among Ethiopians doesn't necessarily mean that it came from darker people than people who introduced more recent J haplogroup among Somalis. But he might have a case as I mentioned in my previous posts.
Posts: 711 | From: Africa | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
^Mind you, it was also found that Somalis carry Asiatic K and even L lineages, though in very minute frequencies.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I already noted above that I misspoke, alTakruri.
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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