The Anu People The most significant fact of the founding of Pharaonic Civilization by the Anu people is rarely, if ever, mentioned in texts on Ancient Egypt. Not to mention the Anu is actually worse than, say, writing a history of the United States of America and not mentioning the Pilgrims (aka "Founders"/"Forefathers"). One has to look at earlier texts for this vital information:
The French Egyptologist Abbe Émile Amélineau is credited with the discovery of the Anu and their contribution to Egyptian civilization. It was Amélineau who designated the first black race to occupy Egypt as the Anu. He showed how they came slowly down the Nile and founded the cities of Esneh, Erment, Qouch and Heliopolis...
From Amélineau:
quote: These Anu were agricultural people, raising cattle on a large scale along the Nile, shutting themselves up in walled cities for defensive purposes. To this people we can attribute, without fear of error, the most ancient Egyptian books, The Book of the Dead and the Texts of the Pyramids, consequently, all the myths or religious teachings. I would add almost all the philosophical systems then known and still called Egyptian. They evidently knew the crafts necessary for any civilization and were familiar with the tools those trades required. They knew how to use metals, at least elementary metals. They made the earliest attempts at writing, for the whole Egyptian tradition attributes this art to Thoth, the great Hermes an Anu like Osiris, who is called Onian in Chapter XV of The Book of the Dead and in the Texts of the Pyramids. Certainly the people already knew the principal arts; it left proof of this in the architecture of the tombs at Abydos, especially the tomb of Osiris and in those sepulchers objects have been found bearing unmistakable stamp of their origin, such as carved ivory, or a little head of a Nubian girl found in a tomb near that of Osiris, or the small wooden or ivory receptacles in the form of a feline head--all documents published in the first volumn of my Fouilles d'Abydos.
From the Kememu
Anu the city of Heliopolis (Coptic; On) Anu Meh Anu of the north (Heliopolis) Anu Shemo Anu of the south (Hermonthis/Ermant) Anu Monti Anu of Hermonthis Anu Tem the Anu of Tem (Hermonthis) Anu Re the Anu of Re Afdu Ikhu the Four Ancestors (of the Anu) Ugrit Goddess of the Duat of Anu Djandjané Anu the Anu Court of Judges: Tem; Shu; Tefnut; Osiris; Thoth Anu n Ptoh the Anu of Ptah (Denderah) Anu n Nut the Anu of Nut (Denderah)
Denderah Judging by the sheer number of given titles, the most venerated city of Kemet was not Thebes, but Denderah. After all, this was the city where the Parents of the Kemetian nation (Isis and Osiris) were born. (It is also in the same neighborhood as Naqada). Here are some of the titles of this city: "The birthplace of Isis" "The Throne of the Queen" "The perfect throne in the Holy of Holies" "The place of joy" "The thrones of Horus" "The holy temple of Horus" "The throne of eternity" "The throne of the drink" "The birthplace of Nut" "The Golden House" "The Sanctuary of Osiris" "The Sanctuary of Re" "The city of the knowing of Isis" "The temple of life" "The temple of Hathor" "The eternal house" "The exalted temple" "The holy temple of Horus of the Two-Lands" "The house of knowledge" (per Rekhit)
The Sudanese Country of Bukem (Buqem) This country was where the worship of the gods Hathor, Shu, Tefnut, etc., originated and spread down the Nile Valley. (An Anu country?)
Kas (Kos) - Capital of the 14th *state of southern Kemet The word Kas, symbolized by a man astride two mythological creatures with their necks entwined and bound together, and the largest word on Narmer's palette of unification, means "Political Union." This particular state was situated roughly half the distance between the north-south borders of southern Kemet. It would be interesting to find the significance of its being named Kas (the south being unified first?)...
*Kemet consisted of 42 states and governors; 22 located in the south and 20 in the north
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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I'm pleased to see this topic and agree, there's little mentioned of these people who are said to have migrated from Ethiopia. I recall reading that the Anu people redirected the nile to drain portions of Egypt for farming.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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Absolutely; The very fact that the Anu people have been recorded makes the information an important key element to understanding and reconnecting many African tribes back to their ancestry and understanding the indigenous orders of African social&moral, spiritual, economic and academic system as they once existed and how to reconstruct a great number of them.
quote:Not to mention the Anu is actually worse than, say, writing a history of the United States of America and not mentioning the Pilgrims (aka "Founders"/"Forefathers").
So true! Speaking of the Anu, also known as the Ancient Oru, it is easy to see the how accurate the researches and finds are. And revealing such information for easy accessibility will only reveal obvious; which is the modern day African tribes who biologically descend from these ancient people and as a Western phrase of distaste might go, “we can’t have this and we must not tolerate these inadmissible rhetoric”.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: I'm pleased to see this topic and agree, there's little mentioned of these people who are said to have migrated from Ethiopia. I recall reading that the Anu people redirected the nile to drain portions of Egypt for farming.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: Evidence of what? Ethiopia? Check Maspero, Origins of the eyptians.
If you meant something else, then state it.
Do you have a more recent source? Those old sources use "Ethiopia" to mean the state that is now located in N. Sudan, not Ethiopia in the Horn of Africa.
Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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The Anu People The most significant fact of the founding of Pharaonic Civilization by the Anu people is rarely, if ever, mentioned in texts on Ancient Egypt. Not to mention the Anu is actually worse than, say, writing a history of the United States of America and not mentioning the Pilgrims (aka "Founders"/"Forefathers"). One has to look at earlier texts for this vital information:
quote:Abbe Émile Amélineau is credited with the discovery of the Anu and their contribution to Egyptian civilization. It was Amélineau who designated the first black race to occupy Egypt as the Anu. He showed how they came slowly down the Nile and founded the cities of Esneh, Erment, Qouch and Heliopolis...
It's this kind of wild and redicoulas theoris that makes "afrocentrism" the laughing stock of the world. .
you do know that polis as in heliopolis means the helio city, and thus a greek word? "Polis" equalls city in greek as in persepolis= the persian city.
How could the Anu who were "the founders of Egypt" have a city called "heliopolis"? Isn't this somehow acknowledging Greece as an older entity than Egypt, if one of the first Egyptian city had a Greek name?
Posts: 1420 | Registered: May 2005
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The Anu People The most significant fact of the founding of Pharaonic Civilization by the Anu people is rarely, if ever, mentioned in texts on Ancient Egypt. Not to mention the Anu is actually worse than, say, writing a history of the United States of America and not mentioning the Pilgrims (aka "Founders"/"Forefathers"). One has to look at earlier texts for this vital information:
quote:Abbe Émile Amélineau is credited with the discovery of the Anu and their contribution to Egyptian civilization. It was Amélineau who designated the first black race to occupy Egypt as the Anu. He showed how they came slowly down the Nile and founded the cities of Esneh, Erment, Qouch and Heliopolis...
It's this kind of wild and redicoulas theoris that makes "afrocentrism" the laughing stock of the world. .
you do know that polis as in heliopolis means the helio city, and thus a greek word? "Polis" equalls city in greek as in persepolis= the persian city.
How could the Anu who were "the founders of Egypt" have a city called "heliopolis"? Isn't this somehow acknowledging Greece as an older entity than Egypt, if one of the first Egyptian city had a Greek name?
Relax, Yonis. Heliopolis is a very ancient city with a proper Egyptian name, ỉwnw (Iunu). Just because the Greeks later renamed it doesn't make it Greek in origin any more than Egypt itself (or Ethiopia, or Eritrea, or Persepolis, etc.).
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LOl in that case do you blame me? Why didn't he use it's original name, i only saw the greek part of the name which was complete btw. "ỉwnw (Iunu)" would ofcourse make it more unique and have a stronger case of earliest dynastic cities.
In any case "Egypt" and "Ethiopia" are still greek names.
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quote:In any case "Egypt" and "Ethiopia" are still greek names.
But they're not the original/indigenous names of these places and this is where your confusion and frustration lies, in a Eurocentric conditioned mind.
To further demonstrate a short but effective explanation of how European specialist destroy other peoples histories you have:
“Kemet” (Negro African) now known as “Egypt” (Greek word)
“Medu Netr or Mdu Ntr” (Negro African) now known as “Hieroglyphics” (Greek word)
“Nubia or Nuba or Nube” (Negro African) now known as “Ethiopia” (Greek word)
“Nubia” is also known as “Aithiopios” (another Greek word)
“Chemistry” literally derived from “Kem or Kam/Chem/Cham” “Ham as in Hamitic” literally derived from “Kem or Kam/Chem/Cham”
Funny enough, both words, “Egypt” and “Ethiopia” mean “Black” or related to a people and the word “Black”.
Basically most Ancient Kemetian Kings, Queens, Cities, with the exceptions of a few, have been morphed into Eurocentric pronunciations of the most incorrect renderings; therefore, we may never know the original African names for “Euclid”, “Aristotle” and other mythical Greek thinkers that we’re taught today as being White (with multiple different statues or sketches representing one character), but as we continue to uncover more European lies, corrections are implemented along the way.
In terms if the Matrix some of us live in, some throats just aren’t big enough, anymore, to swallow these large pills known as "The Truth". This is where such pills should be broken down and consumed in smaller pieces. Unfortunately, the deep seeded racism and conditioning within many individuals makes allows no such logic and because of this they will never know what it is like to attain true spiritual and intellectual freedom.
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May be so, but this is simply a case of using the English language to uncover English wrong doings. Analogically, one would be highly ineffective and counter-productive in describing ones perception of negative European roles in history in, say, pure Bumon or Yoruba, Swahili or Igbo without translation to an English speaking person or group. Therefore, employing a mixture of using both languages is best and most effective approach.
Concerning the pejorative value of some words in a language, in this case, in English, though words like “Negro African” or “Tribe” can be used in a racist and negative tone they still remain less improper than some. They certainly don’t represent the best choice of wording(s), on the contrary though, I’d rather use the word “Tribes” instead of “a bunch of niggas” in address some African subjects to an English speaking audience.
Posts: 179 | From: United States | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote: In any case "Egypt" and "Ethiopia" are still greek names.
quote:But they're not the original/indigenous names of these places and this is where your confusion and frustration lies, in a Eurocentric conditioned mind.
Yes I agree, that it's not the point of Amélineau that the Ainu named the cities Heliopolis, etc..
Here is the point as shown directly from the Kemetic texts.....
quote:to further demonstrate a short but effective explanation of how European specialist destroy other peoples histories you have:
I like the way you put that. It's true.
Note that in line 3 of the above mdw ntr the circular glyph [niwt] with the X running thru it - is a determinative representing a community with 'streets', and is so translated here and correctly as cities....ie cities of the anu people.
The nation of ancient egypt's name is actually written as Kemet [niwt].
This is logically and accurately translated as Black [Nation].
Eurocentric linguists generally refuse to translate this properly, for obvious reasons.
Instead they invent the straight up lie, that the word Km.t, which is the word "Black", somehow translates to black-soil, at which point any reference to Black people in mdw ntr can arbitrarly be redirected to the soil, and so evading any sense of being a reference to the people.
It's amazing how much play Eurocentrism gets out of very silly and triffling fibs.
Ironically when the 1st Europeans [Champollion] translated mdw ntr - they did so correctly and transalated references to Black people in the mdw ntr as exactly that, with no excuses, no dissembling, no re-writing and generally none of the squirming agenda that discredits later Eurocentrics scholarship.
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If Osiris was of Nubian origin, although born at Thebes, it would be easy to understand why the struggle between Set and Horus took place in Nubia. In any case, it is striking that the goddess Isis, according to the legend, has precisely the *same skin color* that Nubians always have, and that the god Osiris has what seems to me an ethnic epithet indicating his Nubian origin. Apparently this observation has never before been made".
Osirus, aka Kem Wer ->The Great Black
* not a reference to soil.
* not a reference to "egypt".
* It is and ethnic reference to his skin color, and by implication the skin color of the ancestors of the Kemetians, who were called Great Black, or Black Face...when their *skin* was painted dark, or jet Black.
Finally...
Amelineau lists in geographical order the fortified towns built along the length of the Nile valley by the Annu blacks.
If Osiris was of Nubian origin, although born at Thebes, it would be easy to understand why the struggle between Set and Horus took place in Nubia. In any case, it is striking that the goddess Isis, according to the legend, has precisely the *same skin color* that Nubians always have, and that the god Osiris has what seems to me an ethnic epithet indicating his Nubian origin. Apparently this observation has never before been made".
Osirus, aka Kem Wer ->The Great Black
* not a reference to soil.
* not a reference to "egypt".
* It is and ethnic reference to his skin color, and by implication the skin color of the ancestors of the Kemetians, who were called Great Black, or Black Face...when their *skin* was painted dark, or jet Black.
Finally...
Amelineau lists in geographical order the fortified towns built along the length of the Nile valley by the Annu blacks.
[Hieroglyphics] =Denderah, the traditional birthplace of Isis
[Hieroglyphics] = A town also called 'On' in the name of Tinis
[Hieroglyphics] =The town called the northern 'On', the renowned city of Heliopolis
Exactly as I recall. This is why I love pre-dynastic & Old Kingdom. There is little doubt about who these people were. From the Papyrus Of Hunefer: "We came from the beginning of the Nile where God Hapi dwells, at the foothills of The Mountains of the moon". The beginning of the Nile are Ethiopia & Uganda.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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also, We have in the opening chapter of the "Book of the Dead", the following information:
quote: Behold, the Osiris Ani, the scribe of the holy offerings of all the gods...
This can be back translated to "Osiri Ani" in the Mdu Ntr, which is an ethnic description of Osiri(s) being an Anu, which further corroborates Amélineau's statement:
An (On) - being a location/people Ani - one member of this group Anu - the entire group
A current example of this usage would be: Aswan Aswani Aswanu
posted
Though the sentiment is true and partially accurate, there's just no such existing text with any such quote.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: From the Papyrus Of Hunefer: "We came from the beginning of the Nile where God Hapi dwells, at the foothills of The Mountains of the moon".
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: [QB] Though the sentiment is true and partially accurate, there's just no such existing text with any such quote.
No, then what papyrus? Ani? According to Dr. Ben-Jochannan it is of the Hunefer.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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^^^^Dr. Ben-Jochannan is an Afrocentric spin doctor and a Jew by the way so you shouldn't trust what he says unless fully corroborated.
My question is who are these Anu people what are their genetic lineages? Could these be the same Ainu of Japan considering there are pyramids in Japan there? Clyde..lol? Are these the people that built the pyramids? Is this the missing *DE haplogroup that spawned the D and E haplotypes and split off into Africa and Asia. I read somewhere that Nigerians influenced a "shield" that the Egyptians also had with a lion on the front and Rasol said this DE haplogroup still exists in Nigeria.
Posts: 271 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by vidadavida: ^^^^Dr. Ben-Jochannan is an Afrocentric spin doctor and a Jew by the way so you shouldn't trust what he says unless fully corroborated.
My question is who are these Anu people what are their genetic lineages? Could these be the same Ainu of Japan considering there are pyramids in Japan there? Clyde..lol? Are these the people that built the pyramids? Is this the missing *DE haplogroup that spawned the D and E haplotypes and split off into Africa and Asia. I read somewhere that Nigerians influenced a "shield" that the Egyptians also had with a lion on the front and Rasol said this DE haplogroup still exists in Nigeria.
What are you talking about you idiot? "Anu" is simply a name for a certain people of predynastic upper egpyt, and Tera Neter was their head nobleman or chief. Apparently they migrated north and established Heliopolis ("Annu" in egyptian) so they were likely the originators of Ra worship, and could have been the original red crown wearers.
Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006
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What are you talking about you idiot? "Anu" is simply a name for a certain people of predynastic upper egpyt, and Tera Neter was their head nobleman or chief. Apparently they migrated north and established Heliopolis ("Annu" in egyptian) so they were likely the originators of Ra worship, and could have been the original red crown wearers.
You must be able to comprehend my question, so I'll let someone else answer it. Thanks Posts: 271 | Registered: Feb 2007
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a) "OSIRIS UN-NEFER" from "Osiri Won Noufr" or "Osiris the original Good/perfection" - This name is also replicated in Italian as "Onofrio".
b) "Kem Wer" - this word "The Great Black" is not only applied to Osiris but also to the other benevolent gods as well as to geographical locations. For example, this is the name the Kememou gave to the body of water between Africa and Arabia; The Great Black (man's) water (Kem Wer [miri]), which later would be re-named the Red (man's) sea by those with the power to define/re-define...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Yeah where exactly do they come from and what are their lineages. I have a feeling they are the ones that truley built the great pyramids.
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Some say that the Anu were said by the dynastic Egyptians from the South to be the original inhabitants of the Nile valley. Zahi Hawass long ago found that many of the structures used to house the builders of the pyramids, were designed for small people, not people taller than say 5 foot. They have also found many skeletons of pygmy like people in these areas as well. HOWEVER, since these populations were considered to be BLACK African pygmies, very rarely are these finds reported outside of obscure technical journals or presentations.
Someone told me that Zahi Hawass gave a presentation at the University of Pennsylvania where he went over the MANY skeletons of dwarves found at Giza and buildings made for SMALL people. However, this information is not readily available anywhere I have looked on the web.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Some say that the Anu were said by the dynastic Egyptians from the South to be the original inhabitants of the Nile valley. Zahi Hawass long ago found that many of the structures used to house the builders of the pyramids, were designed for small people, not people taller than say 5 foot. They have also found many skeletons of pygmy like people in these areas as well. HOWEVER, since these populations were considered to be BLACK African pygmies, very rarely are these finds reported outside of obscure technical journals or presentations.
Someone told me that Zahi Hawass gave a presentation at the University of Pennsylvania where he went over the MANY skeletons of dwarves found at Giza and buildings made for SMALL people. However, this information is not readily available anywhere I have looked on the web.
Who said the Anu were pygmies? The Anu weren't any physically different from predynastic indigenous egyptians, they were simply a SECT of them, and plus, people were shorter back then babe .
Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Some say that the Anu were said by the dynastic Egyptians from the South to be the original inhabitants of the Nile valley. Zahi Hawass long ago found that many of the structures used to house the builders of the pyramids, were designed for small people, not people taller than say 5 foot. They have also found many skeletons of pygmy like people in these areas as well. HOWEVER, since these populations were considered to be BLACK African pygmies, very rarely are these finds reported outside of obscure technical journals or presentations.
Someone told me that Zahi Hawass gave a presentation at the University of Pennsylvania where he went over the MANY skeletons of dwarves found at Giza and buildings made for SMALL people. However, this information is not readily available anywhere I have looked on the web.
Who said the Anu were pygmies? The Anu weren't any physically different from predynastic indigenous egyptians, they were simply a SECT of them, and plus, people were shorter back then babe .
I didnt. Read carefully.
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Still waiting on a ref saying the Anu were from Ethiopia proper. I doubt I'll get one, since they were probably from Ta-Seti, not Ta-Neter.
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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There is exhibited here by some, the need to oversimplify the evolution of Ancient Egypt; Kemet was NOT an empty vacuum, devoid of population. It was a nation which was gradually peopled from regions to its south, south-west ('Saharan'), and north-west. What Amélineau is describing is its origins of advanced civilization; ascribing it to the Anu people:
quote: From Amélineau: These Anu were agricultural people, raising cattle on a large scale along the Nile, shutting themselves up in walled cities for defensive purposes. To this people we can attribute, without fear of error, the most ancient Egyptian books, The Book of the Dead and the Texts of the Pyramids, consequently, all the myths or religious teachings. I would add almost all the philosophical systems then known and still called Egyptian. They evidently knew the crafts necessary for any civilization and were familiar with the tools those trades required. They knew how to use metals, at least elementary metals. They made the earliest attempts at writing, for the whole Egyptian tradition attributes this art to Thoth, the great Hermes an Anu like Osiris, who is called Onian in Chapter XV of The Book of the Dead and in the Texts of the Pyramids...
There is growing evidence to further substantiate C.A. Diop's statement that Kemet, in fact Nile Valley civilization itself was due to the clustering of Blacks in the ancient Nile Valley during antiquity. (There was at least one 'dwarf' pharaoh.) Some here can perhaps more easily grasp this by looking at modern African states - The Amhara people established the modern Ethiopian empire, now Ethiopia; the Hausa-Fulani established states in Northern Nigeria, while the Yoruba established states in Western Nigeria; the Ashanti of Ghana; and so on...
The Anu people; (please re-read the above quotation)...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Amharas established the modern Ethiopian empire?
Tell me, first, who are these Amharas. Secondly, when was the "Modern" Ethiopian Empire founded?
-------------------- "Oh the sons of Ethiopia; observe with care; the country called Ethiopia is, first, your mother; second, your throne; third, your wife; fourth, your child; fifth, your grave." - Ras Alula Aba Nega. Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Yom: Amharas established the modern Ethiopian empire?
Tell me, first, who are these Amharas. Secondly, when was the "Modern" Ethiopian Empire founded?
AMHARA
quote: The Amhara are the politically and culturally dominant ethnic group of Ethiopia. They are located primarily in the central highland plateau of Ethiopia and comprise the major population element in the provinces of Begemder and Gojjam and in parts of Shoa and Wallo. In terms of the total Ethiopian population, however, the Amhara are a numerical minority. The national population has usually been placed at between 14 and 22 million.
It is generally estimated that the Amhara, together with the closely related Tigre, constitute about one-third of this total population. One of the most recent estimates gives the number of native speakers of Amharic, the language of the Amhara, as approximately 7,800,000. (cf. Bender 1971:217)
First Ethiopian Kingdom
quote: At the turn of the first millennia, the dominant kingdom was in Aksum. This was a very advanced civilization. They were the first Africans to mint coins. They were powerful enough to take military expeditions into South Arabia. Aksum began to decline in the seventh century. The Zagwé Dynasty was next to rule Ethiopia. The most prized of the Zagwe kings was Lalibela. This period saw the arrival of Christianity and the Nine Saints...
Modern Ethiopia
quote: The reunification of Ethiopia began with the rule of Emperor Tewodros. His unsuccessful campaign was continued by Yohannes IV and then Menelik II. Menelik II defeated the Italians in a decisive battle at Adwa. The next major ruler was Haile Selassie I. He ruled Ethiopia until the 1970s before he was replaced by Derg.
quote: The Amhara are the politically and culturally dominant ethnic group of Ethiopia. They are located primarily in the central highland plateau of Ethiopia and comprise the major population element in the provinces of Begemder and Gojjam and in parts of Shoa and Wallo. In terms of the total Ethiopian population, however, the Amhara are a numerical minority. The national population has usually been placed at between 14 and 22 million.
It is generally estimated that the Amhara, together with the closely related Tigre, constitute about one-third of this total population. One of the most recent estimates gives the number of native speakers of Amharic, the language of the Amhara, as approximately 7,800,000. (cf. Bender 1971:217)
These are the "Amhara" you speak of:
quote:Up until the last quarter of the 20th century, "Amhara" was only used (in the form ''amariñña'') to refer to Amharic, the language, or the medieval province located in Wollo (modern Amhara Region). Still today, most people labeled by outsiders as "Amhara," refer to themselves simply as "Ethiopian," or to their province (e.g. Gojjamé from the province Gojjam). According to Ethiopian ethnographer Donald Levine, "Amharic-speaking Shewans consider themselves closer to non-Amharic-speaking Shewans than to Amharic-speakers from distant regions like Gonder."(Donald N. Levine "Amhara," in von Uhlig, Siegbert, ed., Encyclopaedia Aethiopica:A-C, 2003, p.231.) Amharic-speakers tend to be a "supra-ethnic group" comprised of "fused stock."(Takkele Taddese "Do the Amhara Exist as a Distinct Ethnic Group?" in Marcus, Harold G., ed., Papers of the 12th International Conference of Ethiopian Studies, 1994, pp.168-186.) Takkele Taddese describes the Amhara,
quote:The Amhara can thus be said to exist in the sense of being a fused stock, a supra-ethnically conscious ethnic Ethiopian serving as the pot in which all the other ethnic groups are supposed to melt. The language, Amharic, serves as the center of this melting process in spite of the fact that it is difficult to conceive of a language without the existence of a corresponding distinct ethnic group speaking it as a mother tongue. The Amhara does not exist, however, in the sense of being a distinct ethnic group promoting its own interests and advancing the Herrenvolk philosophy and ideology as has been presented by the elite politicians. The basic principle of those who affirm the existence of the Amhara as a distinct ethnic group, therefore, is that the Amhara should be dislodged from the position of supremacy and each ethnic group should be freed from Amhara domination to have equal status with everybody else. This sense of Amhara existence can be viewed as a myth.''
They did not exist truly until the 20th century, so you cannot say they "founded" the modern Ethiopian kingdom.
The above is a fully sourced section from the article at Wikipedia, which I wrote.
quote:
quote:Modern Ethiopia The reunification of Ethiopia began with the rule of Emperor Tewodros. His unsuccessful campaign was continued by Yohannes IV and then Menelik II. Menelik II defeated the Italians in a decisive battle at Adwa. The next major ruler was Haile Selassie I. He ruled Ethiopia until the 1970s before he was replaced by Derg.
Note that this is a continuation of Ethiopia's history, not a new kingdom. There is no break in history between the Aksumite dynasty to the Zagwe dynasty to the Solomonic dynasty, to the Republic we have today, though there are gaps in knowledge. Tewodros could not have been an Amhara since the ethnicity didn't actually exist back then, although it was used by some outsiders simply to refer to any Christian (see e.g. the Southern group called "Amaro"). Also remember that Yohannes was Tigrean, and Menelik, who restored the former extent of Ethiopia's boundaries (and then some in some areas) was half Oromo. You cannot call these people Amharas because the term as you are using it did not exist then.
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quote:Originally posted by Yom: Still waiting on a ref saying the Anu were from Ethiopia proper. I doubt I'll get one, since they were probably from Ta-Seti, not Ta-Neter.
I'll have to find the reference. It's been many years since I've read it. I believe it was in Cheikh Diop's, "The Peopling of Ancient Egypt & the Deciphering of the Meroitic Script", or some other release during the same timeframe. I'll make an effort to backtrack and find the correct source.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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YOM, Trust me...the Amharas DO exist in reality. I know this and not merely from books, I have known them personally; hung out with 'em. But that's not even the point on the point that I was making. I meant to illustrate that in African history, indeed, all human history, there's usually a dominant and distinct ethnic group that establishes states, regimes, etc... In the case of Kemet; the founders of Pharaonic civilization is credited to the Anu people. Of course, they were also NOT the first blacks to dwell in Kemet; merely the most advanced ethnic group...
P.S. - ever hear of the Mesnitu or Shemsu Hor?
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Most advanced?!?!? hmmmm that sounds kind of..."white" don't you think *clearing throat*.
Now, Wally...WHERE DO THE ANU COME FROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? I am tired of this question being avoided; what is their lineage and what is thier origin? If the answer is "I don't know" then say it!!!
Posts: 271 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote: Still waiting on a ref saying the Anu were from Ethiopia proper. I doubt I'll get one, since they were probably from Ta-Seti, not Ta-Neter.
quote: Most advanced?!?!? hmmmm that sounds kind of..."white" don't you think *clearing throat*. Now, Wally...WHERE DO THE ANU COME FROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? I am tired of this question being avoided; what is their lineage and what is thier origin? If the answer is "I don't know" then say it!!!
These are two examples from different individuals which illustrate a sort of naive confusion:
a) There seems to be the inability to recognize that "Ethiopia proper", "Ta-Seti", and "Ta-Neter" are abstract descriptions of the SAME place (An abstraction is an idea, concept, or word which defines the phenomena which make up the concrete events or things which the abstraction refers to, the referents.) :
Ta-Seti or "Land of the Bow" is > the first state (nome) of Kemet > Upper Egypt > the Sudan > African interior regions Ta-Seti is also rendered as Ta-S(e)tiu or "Land of the Bows"
Ta_Ntr is also rendered as: Ta Ntr = "Land of the god/ancestor/saint" Ta Ntrou = "Land of the gods/ancestors/saints" Ta Noute = "Land of God" This term is an abstraction that refers to the African interior.
b) "Ethiopia" is a Greek corruption of the Mdu Ntr word "Ethaoush", which again, is an abstract reference to the African interior. Thusly, we have from the Mdu Ntr that the Kememou were Africans from the interior of the continent, in fact from ALL parts of it... The answer as to where the Anu people were from is explicit in the documentation expressed by Amélineau, but more importantly in the language of the Kememou themselves.
c) Also, you can clear your throat again, for there is absolutely nothing "white" about the existance of advanced peoples in the entire history of humanity. It's a natural, dialectical law; for example, the Greeks were the most advanced of the European peoples at one time and throughout the course of human history they lost this advantage...there are NO inately advanced people, but I will not waste time here explaining what is obvious to anyone who has, even casually, studied human history...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: Ta-Seti or "Land of the Bow" is > the first state (nome) of Kemet > Upper Egypt > the Sudan > African interior regions Ta-Seti is also rendered as Ta-S(e)tiu or "Land of the Bows"
Ta_Ntr is also rendered as: Ta Ntr = "Land of the god/ancestor/saint" Ta Ntrou = "Land of the gods/ancestors/saints" Ta Noute = "Land of God" This term is an abstraction that refers to the African interior.
How can Upper Egypt/Lower Nubia and Punt be the same place?
quote: b) "Ethiopia" is a Greek corruption of the Mdu Ntr word "Ethaoush", which again, is an abstract reference to the African interior. Thusly, we have from the Mdu Ntr that the Kememou were Africans from the interior of the continent, in fact from ALL parts of it... The answer as to where the Anu people were from is explicit in the documentation expressed by Amélineau, but more importantly in the language of the Kememou themselves.
Citation (for the Ethaoush corruption)?
quote:Originally posted by Wally: YOM, Trust me...the Amharas DO exist in reality. I know this and not merely from books, I have known them personally; hung out with 'em. But that's not even the point on the point that I was making. I meant to illustrate that in African history, indeed, all human history, there's usually a dominant and distinct ethnic group that establishes states, regimes, etc... In the case of Kemet; the founders of Pharaonic civilization is credited to the Anu people. Of course, they were also NOT the first blacks to dwell in Kemet; merely the most advanced ethnic group...
P.S. - ever hear of the Mesnitu or Shemsu Hor?
Well, Amharic is my first language and I do know people that identify as Amhara, so I think I have more experience on this issue than you do. I do not deny that some people today identify as Amhara, but a large number simply identify by their province and may even call themselves an Amarinya tenegari (Amharic speaker) instead of "Amhara." When the Ethiopian state was actually founded (when it was still called Aksum, D'mt, Punt, or whatever), there was no such thing as an Amhara people. Even in the 1850s with the end of the Zemene Mesafint ("Era of Judges" correctly, like the Book of Judges, but also translated more commonly as "Era of Princes"), there wasn't truly an ethnic group called Amhara like there was a Tigray one, or an Afar one. It was imposed by outsiders. In fact, "Amhara" was often used more often simply to mean a Christian than a member of the Amharic group, hence the southern Christian group called "Amaaro" that doesn't speak Amharic. Likewise, the word "Galla" (an early name for the Oromo that is now perjorative) was often used in the 18th and early 19th century during the Zemene Mesafint to simply mean a pagan, whether or not s/he was a member of the Oromo ethnic group.
Note that this doesn't mean that I can't believe that the Anu were the founders of the Egyptian state, but it does mean that I don't think your comparison was apt. Also, I know of neither Mesnitu nor Shemsu Hor. Who (or what?) are they?
Posts: 1024 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:How can Upper Egypt/Lower Nubia and Punt be the same place?
I want to hear Wally's answer but here is a question: Do you consider Aswan to be a part of Upper Egypt, Lower Nubia, or both?
Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the justfied, by name, Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt. He will take the white crown, He will wear the red crown; He will join the Two Mighty Ones, He will please the Two Lords with what they wish, With field-circler in his fist, oar in his grasp. Rejoice, O people of his time, The son of man will make his name for all eternity! The evil-minded, the treason-plotters, They suppress their speech in fear of him; Asiatics will fall to his sword, Libyans will fall to his flame, Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might,
Prophesy of Neferti 4th Dynasty, Km.t
Yonis, if he were of a mind to study up, would also note that in the above primary text: "Nubia and Egypt" are one class, and Asiatics and Libyans are another.
The division here is poltical and is about legitmacy of rule in the Nile Valley, vs. usurpers.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:How can Upper Egypt/Lower Nubia and Punt be the same place?
I want to hear Wally's answer but here is a question: Do you consider Aswan to be a part of Upper Egypt, Lower Nubia, or both?
Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the justfied, by name, Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt. He will take the white crown, He will wear the red crown; He will join the Two Mighty Ones, He will please the Two Lords with what they wish, With field-circler in his fist, oar in his grasp. Rejoice, O people of his time, The son of man will make his name for all eternity! The evil-minded, the treason-plotters, They suppress their speech in fear of him; Asiatics will fall to his sword, Libyans will fall to his flame, Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might,
Prophesy of Neferti 4th Dynasty, Km.t
Yonis, if he were of a mind to study up, would also note that in the above primary text: "Nubia and Egypt" are one class, and Asiatics and Libyans are another.
The division here is poltical and is about legitmacy of rule in the Nile Valley, vs. usurpers.
One thing for sure, Aswan was not part of Lower Nubia, as neither one existed in those times....
Aswan was not called Aswan by the Egyptians. The area south of the 1st cataract was not called Lower Nubia by the Egyptians either.
The issue here is to correctly identify the southern boundary of Egypt and it was not at Aswan. The southern boundary of ancient Kmt was south of modern day Aswan.
Posts: 8893 | Registered: May 2005
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quote: Originally posted by Yom: How can Upper Egypt/Lower Nubia and Punt be the same place?
You, and some others here also, seem to want to put things into neat and unchanging little boxes...human history is never stagnant but rather a continuing process:
Ta-Seti - "Land of the Bow" was the name of the first state or nome of Kemet Ta-Seti - was also used to refer to Upper Egypt and the Sudan Ta-Setiu - "Land of the Bows" was also, by extension, the African interior regions
also; Ta-Khent- (Land at the front/beginning) was the name for Kemet's southern border, which was never a constant, but would change many times over the course of centuries... Khentiu Hon Nefer - "Founders of the Perfect Order" was also the name given to those peoples to the south of Kemet...
If we refer to Budge, which I have quoted on this forum previously, "Punt" and "Nubia" were ALWAYS associated together.
It is no accident that "Punt" is claimed by Somalia as well as Ethiopia, simply because Pwon.t ("the Beginning")was a REGION in East and Central Africa.
quote: Originally posted by Yom: Citation (for the Ethaoush corruption)?
(sigh...)
quote: Ethiopia Catechism: The name Ethiopia comes from the Greek Aithiops or 'burnt faces'. That's only partially true. Actually, it's closing in on being a lie...
This I found purely through serendipity. There are Kemetian/Coptic words for Ethiopia. They are 'Ethosh' and 'Ethaush,' which means 'border, boundary, or frontier' which referred to the lands beyond Kemet's southern borders - the frontier. Borrowing this term from their patrons, the Greeks wrote it as Aithiops, and indeed used it to indicate, initially, all the lands beyond Kemet's southern boundary frontier. Later, it was also used as a euphemism for those peoples who were dark-skinned, both in Africa and in India. It is to be noted that they never used this term to identify the Kememu, for them they used the term 'melanochroes' or simply 'Black.' Out of respect, I imagine...
quote: Originally posted by Yom: Well, Amharic is my first language and I do know people that identify as Amhara, so I think I have more experience on this issue than you do...
This is a rhetorical reply and needs no response; In the almost constant military contests between Somalia and Ethiopia; ask any Somali combatant who he is fighting, the response would be "the Amhara", who just got here on earth, day before yesterday...
quote: Originally posted by Yom: Note that this doesn't mean that I can't believe that the Anu were the founders of the Egyptian state, but it does mean that I don't think your comparison was apt.
...then use the comparisons given for Nigeria and Ghana...
quote: Originally posted by Yom: Also, I know of neither Mesnitu nor Shemsu Hor. Who (or what?) are they?
Mesnitu- "Metal workers or Blacksmiths" Shemsu Hor- "Followers of Horus" These are one and the same people, who are believed to have been the new ruling ethnic group of Kemet that overthrew the Anu; the Mdu Ntr chronicles this military struggle. They would appear to be the descendants of the Beja and related ethnic groups. According to Kememou tradition these conquering folks came from Pwon.t or "Punt"; surprise, surprise, surprise...Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Probable origin of the term "Ethiopia" Mdu Ntr: Ethaush (frontier, border) > Coptic: Ethosh (and Ethoshi, Ethoshu), a name given to all peoples that lived on the frontiers of Egypt.
Ethoshi ("Nubian"; Budge's take in Hieroglyphic Dictionary, EWB-p760b)
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by vidadavida: I thought ethiopia came from "aither(burnt/burning) ops(face, visage)"??? In Greek?
Yeah, You thought like Lit who thought he had to poot but, oops he really had to s...
but seriously, You obviously didn't read my previous post and/or you do not understand the word "Catechism"; A manual giving basic instruction in a subject, usually by rote or repetition.
I try to make it a point to post items that may be of interest to the intellectually curious; those who wish to listen to evidence of often obscure information:
a) In most of the older dictionaries and/or concordances of the Bible, the etymology of the word "Ethiopia" is given as "Ethaush." This is also implied in Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary as I have written. This is tangible, concrete evidence.
b) The Greeks were taught civilization by the Kememou, and not the other way around. When the pyramids were built along the banks of the Nile, Greece did not even exist. Yet, today, we have this "confusion" >
Aigyptos is a Greek word!??? The only thing Greek about this word is the addition of the 's' at the end of the word, which the Greeks did with Egyptian nouns:
> Aigypto ("Temple of the essence of Pth (To)") in Greek becomes Aigyptos > Osiri becomes Osiris > Isi (Ese in Coptic) becomes Isis > Hor becomes Horus and so on and so on...
another interesting contribution is:
quote: "from the great Ethiopian scholar and writer Tsegaye Gebre-Medhin, we learn that the name Ethiopia is a combination of three ancient Egyptian words: Et - truth and peace Op - up / upper Bia - land, country"
I tend to agree more with the term "Ethaush" as being the etymology of the word Ethiopia...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Yeah, You thought like Lit who thought he had to poot but, oops he really had to s...
but seriously, You obviously didn't read my previous post and/or you do not understand the word "Catechism"; A manual giving basic instruction in a subject, usually by rote or repetition.
I try to make it a point to post items that may be of interest to the intellectually curious; those who wish to listen to evidence of often obscure information:
a) In most of the older dictionaries and/or concordances of the Bible, the etymology of the word "Ethiopia" is given as "Ethaush." This is also implied in Budge's Hieroglyphic Dictionary as I have written. This is tangible, concrete evidence.
b) The Greeks were taught civilization by the Kememou, and not the other way around. When the pyramids were built along the banks of the Nile, Greece did not even exist. Yet, today, we have this "confusion" >
Aigyptos is a Greek word!??? The only thing Greek about this word is the addition of the 's' at the end of the word, which the Greeks did with Egyptian nouns:
> Aigypto ("Temple of the essence of Pth (To)") in Greek becomes Aigyptos > Osiri becomes Osiris > Isi (Ese in Coptic) becomes Isis > Hor becomes Horus and so on and so on...
"from the great Ethiopian scholar and writer Tsegaye Gebre-Medhin, we learn that the name Ethiopia is a combination of three ancient Egyptian words: Et - truth and peace Op - up / upper Bia - land, country" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tend to agree more with the term "Ethaush" as being the etymology of the word Ethiopia...
I don't agree with this because Hetkuptah(spiritual house of ptah) is not much different than aigiptos meaning the house of iepeter/iepetos which is equivalent to the god Ptah to the Greeks before Posiedon took on the role of iepeter/iepetos.
I understand your point that aigiptos is not a Greek invention it is just their language translating the Egyptian(hetkuptah), but Ethaush to Ethiopia doesn't make as much sense as aikos/aik(house) + iepetos(ptah)..that is all I am saying.
Posts: 271 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Mesnitu- "Metal workers or Blacksmiths" Shemsu Hor- "Followers of Horus" These are one and the same people, who are believed to have been the new ruling ethnic group of Kemet that overthrew the Anu; the Mdu Ntr chronicles this military struggle. They would appear to be the descendants of the Beja and related ethnic groups. According to Kememou tradition these conquering folks came from Pwon.t or "Punt"; surprise, surprise, surprise...
^^^This is very interesting. Do you have the Mdu Ntr to present for this event? Also when did this happen in time? And I heard something about Ethiopians coming in swarms genetically in the old kingdom and this was seen archeologically and were the pyramid builders in these dynasties and Imhotep was from this line. Have you heard this before and are maybe these "Ethiopians" the Puntites considering we see the people of Pwon.t with that fake beard and Imhotep with the same type of beard because not ALL Egyptians had this beard and I think it means something?
Posts: 271 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote: vidadavida wrote: This is very interesting. Do you have the Mdu Ntr to present for this event? Also when did this happen in time?
It would behoove you to do this research yourself. In looking in books on Ancient Egypt, look in the index for "shemsu hor" or "followers of Horus" that would chronicle these events. You'll probably have more success with older texts, so I recommend your local public library. As for the dates that this event occurred, forget it! Ruling classes always revise history, so it's likely that the events occurred long after the first dynasties but could have begun as early as the first dynasty and took years to complete...
quote: vidadavida wrote: And I heard something about Ethiopians coming in swarms genetically in the old kingdom and this was seen archeologically and were the pyramid builders in these dynasties and Imhotep was from this line.
You have to comprehend that Ancient Egypt was the result of the constant 'swarming' or migration of 'Ethiopians' into the Nile Valley all the way to the Mediterranean as the land increased. The Ancient Egyptians were 'Ethiopian' or 'Negroes', the only distinction between these two Black societies (Egypt and Ethiopia) was political and NOT racial. (I know, it is difficult, sometimes, to completely ignore the historical distortions of Eurocentric ideology; the new international ruling class.)
quote: vidadavida wrote: are maybe these "Ethiopians" the Puntites considering we see the people of Pwon.t with that fake beard and Imhotep with the same type of beard because not ALL Egyptians had this beard and I think it means something?
The "Puntite beard" indeeds means something, as it indicates the origin of the ruling class that depicts these images as being from that particular ethnic group within the region of Punt. It is no accident that these "Puntites" are displayed as being ethnically identical to the Kememou ruling class...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Does anyone know where pictures of the Anu can be found?
Regarding the skeletal remains of diminuitive predynastic peoples, Gerald Massey writing back in 1880 was furious stating that over a hundred cranium had been crated off to London and lost. He made a formal inquiry into where they were but they were not to be found. Pity. But, should Anu pictures be available, please do let me know.
Thanks,
Marc
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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