posted
The great diversity of aboriginal African hair as alway interest me. Straight hair is just as african as kinky/curly hair although its make up less of the majority of african hair types. Why are Africans and black people in "general" continue to view straighter hair as some sort of non-African admixture? I know that The west/Europeans dogmatics have pushed that every feature that they posess is some how originated with them only (ie narrow noses, thinner lips, and even pale skin). Why do we as Africans and Africans of the Diaspora continue to go along with this pseudobiology in doing so placing the Europeans as the basis and prototype for the human family?
Another thing. I know this can be its only topic, but I will place it within this topic since it is directly related. Was the dreadlock hair style common in Egypt and the nile valley? Check out this link..
The first known examples of locks date back to ancient dynastic Egypt, where Egyptian royalty and commoners wore locked hairstyles and wigs appeared on bas-reliefs, statuary and other artifacts.[1] Mummified remains of ancient Egyptians with locks, as well as locked wigs, also have been recovered from archaeological sites.[2]
The locked Hindu deity Shiva and his followers were described in the scriptures as "jaTaa", meaning "wearing twisted locks of hair", probably derived from the Dravidian word "caTai", which means to twist or to wrap. According to Roman accounts of the time, the Celts wore dreadlocks as well, describing them as having "hair like snakes". [citation needed] Germanic tribes, the Vikings, the Greeks, the Pacific Ocean peoples, the Naga people and several ascetic groups within various major religions have at times worn their hair in locks. In addition to the Nazirites of Judaism and the Sadhus of Hinduism, there are the Dervishes of Islam and the Coptic Monks of Christianity, among others. The very earliest Christians also may have worn this hairstyle. Particularly noteworthy are descriptions of James the Just, brother of Jesus and first Bishop of Jerusalem, who wore them to his ankles.
Locks also have been part of Mexican culture. In a description of an Aztec ritual, Historian William Hickling Prescott referred to locked Priests of the Aztec civilization, a Mesoamerican people of central Mexico in the 14th century, 15th century and 16th century.
"On the summit he was received by six priests, whose long and matted locks flowed disorderly over their sable robes, covered with hieroglyphic scrolls of mystic import. They led him to the sacrificial stone, a huge block of jasper, with its upper surface somewhat convex." (William H. Prescott, History of the Conquest of Mexico)
Rastaman with long locksIn Senegal, the Baye Fall, followers of the Mouride movement, a sect of Islam indigenous to the country which was founded in 1887 by Shaykh Aamadu Bāmba Mbākke, are famous for growing locks and wearing multi-colored gowns.[1] Cheikh Ibra Fall, founder of the Baye Fall school of the Mouride Brotherhood, claims that he was "the first dread in West Africa".
In Jamaica the term dreadlocks was first recorded in the 1950s as a derogatory term when the "Young Black Faith", an early sect of the Rastafari which began among the marginalized poor of Jamaica in the 1930s, ceased to copy the particular hair style of Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia and began to wear locks instead. It was said that they looked 'dreadful' with their locks, which gave birth to the modern name 'dreadlocks' for this ancient style. Different theories exist about the origin of Rastalocks. Some sources trace Rastalocks back to Indians who arrived in Jamaica to work as indentured laborers in the late 19th century, some of whom were among the first followers of Leonard Howell. Others believe the first Rasta dreadlocks were derived from the "dreaded locks" of the Mau Mau largely Kikuyu protonationalist insurgency against British colonialism in 1940s Kenya.[2]
Most Rastafari, however, explain Rastalocks with one of the three Nazarite vows, in the Book of Numbers, the fourth of the books of the Pentateuch.
All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow. (Numbers 6:5, KJV)
Nazarites for life who wore locks and were mentioned in the Bible include the Nazarites Samuel, John the Baptist, and probably the most famous biblical figure with locked hair, Samson, who, according to scripture, had seven locks and lost his great strength when they were cut.
Posts: 318 | From: PA. USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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The great diversity of aboriginal African hair as alway interest me. Straight hair is just as african as kinky/curly hair although its make up less of the majority of african hair types. Why are Africans and black people in "general" continue to view straighter hair as some sort of non-African admixture? I know that The west/Europeans dogmatics have pushed that every feature that they posess is some how originated with them only (ie narrow noses, thinner lips, and even pale skin). Why do we as Africans and Africans of the Diaspora continue to go along with this pseudobiology in doing so placing the Europeans as the basis and prototype for the human family?
I very much doubt that everyone of us are duped.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote: The great diversity of aboriginal African hair as alway interest me. Straight hair is just as african as kinky/curly hair although its make up less of the majority of african hair types. Why are Africans and black people in "general" continue to view straighter hair as some sort of non-African admixture? I know that The west/Europeans dogmatics have pushed that every feature that they posess is some how originated with them only (ie narrow noses, thinner lips, and even pale skin).
Why do we as Africans and Africans of the Diaspora continue to go along with this pseudobiology in doing so placing the Europeans as the basis and prototype for the human family?
The great diversity of aboriginal African hair as alway interest me. Straight hair is just as african as kinky/curly hair although its make up less of the majority of african hair types. Why are Africans and black people in "general" continue to view straighter hair as some sort of non-African admixture? I know that The west/Europeans dogmatics have pushed that every feature that they posess is some how originated with them only (ie narrow noses, thinner lips, and even pale skin). Why do we as Africans and Africans of the Diaspora continue to go along with this pseudobiology in doing so placing the Europeans as the basis and prototype for the human family?
I very much doubt that everyone of us are duped.
Ditto, despite what one individual may think. Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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The great diversity of aboriginal African hair as alway interest me. Straight hair is just as african as kinky/curly hair although its make up less of the majority of african hair types. Why are Africans and black people in "general" continue to view straighter hair as some sort of non-African admixture? I know that The west/Europeans dogmatics have pushed that every feature that they posess is some how originated with them only (ie narrow noses, thinner lips, and even pale skin). Why do we as Africans and Africans of the Diaspora continue to go along with this pseudobiology in doing so placing the Europeans as the basis and prototype for the human family?
posted
I for one do NOT believe that ANY traits originated with whites (except for determined close-mindedness and murderously blind ambition) however I would like to know more about indigenous Africans/blacks who have naturaly straight hair.
I've long wondered why many of the --obivously!-- black Egptians mummies have straight hair, hair that couldn't possibly by the "typical" kinky hair one usually associates with blacks.
Can somebody fill me in?
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote: The great diversity of aboriginal African hair as alway interest me. Straight hair is just as african as kinky/curly hair although its make up less of the majority of african hair types. Why are Africans and black people in "general" continue to view straighter hair as some sort of non-African admixture?
Indeed this claim has no basis in biology and there is emperical evidence to refute it.
^ Australian aboriginal phenotype precede the existence of Europeans or even -northern- Asians, they are descendant from peoples migrated from supra-equatorial Africa, across to southern Asian and Australia.
This implies that both wavy hair, and more to the point, the penchant for variable hair texture is pan homo-sapien trait, present in Africans prior to outmigration of non-Africans.
Genetics has also failed to reveal, any -recent- gene mutations that would account for particular hair texture.
This is in contrast with skin color, where genetics can document both the original melanoderm [black] pigmentation of all humans, and the recent genetic mutation that cause extreme de-pigmentation [leucoderm], in whites.
Genetics has made it clear that white people are not the primary 'cause' of phenotypical variation.
They are late derived in
a) geography as Europe was settled only long after australia, pacifica, and asia.
b) morphology, as white skin mutations became common in Europe's population as little as 12kya.
c) Geneology, R1b and I are the primary European paternal lineages have limited distribution outside of Europe.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: I for one do NOT believe that ANY traits originated with whites (except for determined close-mindedness and murderously blind ambition)
That's more of a common human failing than a white one.
Why does this board attract black racists and supremacists like a magnet?
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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IMHO, it attracts those who seek truth the most, curious folks...other than that, it attracts some racists, black and white,and some rather unstable individuals...
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^ Indeed, and may I point out that reverse-racism, which is all that black racism is, is no better than original white racism and accomplishes the same result which is nothing more than foolishness and nonsense. Reactionary Tit-for-tat, which is the very nature of reverse-racism is childish and does nothing to solve the problem of racism but just adds to it. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sportbilly: I for one do NOT believe that ANY traits originated with whites (except for determined close-mindedness and murderously blind ambition) however I would like to know more about indigenous Africans/blacks who have naturaly straight hair.
I've long wondered why many of the --obivously!-- black Egptians mummies have straight hair, hair that couldn't possibly by the "typical" kinky hair one usually associates with blacks.
Can somebody fill me in?
I don't know about truly straight hair like the kind you see in Asia (unless someone can show me examples of Africans exhibiting such a trait). But wavy hair is not unsual. Hair textuer in Africa ranges from wavy to one extreme to spiral tuft in the other extreme. Spiral tuft hair (the kind seen in Khoisan people) is even tighter than 'kinky' hair, which is tighter than curly hair, and then lastly wavy hair.
As for Egyptian mummies. Mind you that embalming chemicals used in mummication has damaging effects which can alter hair texture and even color-- see here.
Other ancient portraits and depictions which seem to show Egyptians with bone straight hair, are actually wigs made of plant fibers that give a straight haired look. There are even peoples in West Africa who wear very similar types of wigs!
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus: Why does this board attract black racists and supremacists like a magnet?
A better question would be how does this board attract smart-aleck nits who think they're far more clever than they actually are --or will ever be? I have seen many posts by white supremecists on here (calling blacks "monkey" "nigger" and the like) but I haven't seen any posts by these fabled "black supremecists" though.
Get some sleep or lay off the booze. Either way, you don't know me, so don't pretend you're smart enough to judge me. It's obvious from your post you aren't.
Peace.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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^ What are you talking about, sportbilly?? Do you think when T-rex said black racists and supremacists, he meant you?
Also, one does not have to resort to racial slurs and epithets to be racist or have supremacist tendencies. I'd say Marc Washington is a perfect example of black supremacy when he seeks to deprive white Europeans of their own culture in Europe and go so far as to say the original inhabitants of Europe were black Africans, while whites are newcomers to the region!! If that isn't black supremacy and black racism then what is?!
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Thanks for the article-link Djehuti. It's certainly helped give light to a number of things.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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Correct me if I'm wrong (in my case that's ALWAYS a possibility) but T-Rex quoted my statement in his post then immediately followed it with his erroneous observation.
If that's not pointing his statement at me, then who else could he possibly have been talking about? And why didn't he reference/use their statement instead?
If he wasn't talking about me, then why did he use my statement as his quote? Why even reference my statement at all?
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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One more thing, if anyone could explain it to me.
Ramses hair was straightened and reddened by the chemicals used in the embalming/mummification process --if I read the article correctly. Okay, that makes sense.
What about the other mummies found though, like Tuya (mother of Queen Tiy) and Yuya? Mind you I'm not doubting the Egytians hair was altered by the chemicals used during mummification, but I'd like some further info on how it came to be so widespread. Did they give the corpses some sort of ritual cleansing from head to toe with the stuff or what? If so, why?
Were all the mummies hair straightened by the chemicals used during the mummification process or was it only a few? And since their hair was straightened for Tuya and others then why didn't it change colors? Maybe whoever was making the chemical mixture for Ramses got the balance of ingredients wrong and it led to the discoloring of his hair?
Can some kind soul please point me to a few mummy pics that have the mummies with their proper (i.e. kinky) hair? Thanks.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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Correct me if I'm wrong (in my case that's ALWAYS a possibility) but T-Rex quoted my statement in his post then immediately followed it with his erroneous observation.
If that's not pointing his statement at me, then who else could he possibly have been talking about? And why didn't he reference/use their statement instead?
If he wasn't talking about me, then why did he use my statement as his quote? Why even reference my statement at all?
Perhaps it is because of your racist remark that whites didn't originate any trait except "except for determined close-mindedness and murderously blind ambition". As T-rex says, that is a human trait any group or idividual could have.
quote: One more thing, if anyone could explain it to me.
Ramses hair was straightened and reddened by the chemicals used in the embalming/mummification process --if I read the article correctly. Okay, that makes sense.
What about the other mummies found though, like Tuya (mother of Queen Tiy) and Yuya? Mind you I'm not doubting the Egytians hair was altered by the chemicals used during mummification, but I'd like some further info on how it came to be so widespread. Did they give the corpses some sort of ritual cleansing from head to toe with the stuff or what? If so, why?
Were all the mummies hair straightened by the chemicals used during the mummification process or was it only a few? And since their hair was straightened for Tuya and others then why didn't it change colors?
Maybe whoever was making the chemical mixture for Ramses got the balance of ingredients wrong and it led to the discoloring of his hair?
Can some kind soul please point me to a few mummy pics that have the mummies with their proper (i.e. kinky) hair? Thanks.
Chemicals are just one reason, you also have to remember that the mummies themselves are thousands of years old. You cannot expect hair or any physical features to remain intact for that long especially in a dry desert environment.
Here is an authentic portrait of Tiye:
^ Now I seriously doubt that she or her own mother would have had long blonde hair. Do you?
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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What are you getting at? First you ask, "What are you talking about, sportbilly?? Do you think when T-rex said black racists and supremacists, he meant you?"
Then you say, "Perhaps it is because of your racist remark..."
That's simply wrong, and I think you know it.
You seem to already know what T-Rex was saying about me before you asked your first question. Then you answer your own question by calling me a racist? I have no idea where you're coming from with this, but it's not from a position of someone who knows me.
Look, I'm not going to start a flame-war, especially over something I don't even feel that passionately about --though the folks throwing barbs at me seem to. It's obvious my wording struck you and T-Rex as being malicious. I understand that. But do you understand that I didn't go into a long-winded diatribe about how evil whites are, nor do any of my other posts slam whites just because? So for those who are trying to imply I have racist "tendencies" find another horse to ride on, because that one isn't going anywhere. Anyone who calls themselves standing in judgment of me doesn't know me. I didn't go on a rant, I simply said one thing that I was thinking, even put it in paranthesis to separate it from the main thought, and then moved on. It seems there are other who can't get over it though. Well for my part I'm through with it, and was the instant I posted it. I can barely believe anyone even cared, or that I'm still replying to it this long after having written it.
Djehuti, I enjoy reading your posts, since I've recently begun learning about black Egypt --that is Egypt as a black nation, for those ready to call me a "racist" again. I don't want to run the risk of this turning acrimonious so I'm going to close this discussion here. For the most part you and I see eye-to-eye on a number of things, and I hope to have more exchanges with you in the future, but not if you're going to call me a racist. When you or T-Rex do things like that that's not merely an observation about my words, that's a personal indictment. My statement is what it is and I make no apologies for it. Anyone who wants to continue quibbling over it is more than welcome to do so --start a thread even; "Sportbilly's a Closet Bigot!". They'll just have to do it without me.
Peace.
Posts: 248 | From: Way Down South | Registered: Sep 2007
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quote: What about the other mummies found though, like Tuya (mother of Queen Tiy) and Yuya? Mind you I'm not doubting the Egytians hair was altered by the chemicals used during mummification,
West Africa Magazine July 8, 2001 Egyptology: Hanging in the Hair by Anu M'bantu and Fari Supia
The mummies on display in the world's museums exhibit Caucasoid-looking hair in shades that stem from brown to blonde. These mummies include Pharaoh Seqenenre Tao of the 17th dynasty and the 19th dynasty's Rameses II. As one scholar put it: "The most common hair color, then as now, was a very dark brown, almost black color although natural auburn and even rather surprisingly blonde hair are also to be found."
Trichology is the scientific analysis of hair. An instrument called a trichometer is used to measure the cross-section of a hair shaft. From this you can get measurements for the minimum and maximum diameter of a hair. The minimum measurement is then divided by the maximum and then multiplied by a hundred. This produces an index. A survey of the scientific literature produces the following breakdown of the analysis:
San, Southern African 55.00 Western European 71.20 Zulu, Southern African 55.00 Asian Indian 73.00 Sub-Saharan Africa 60.00 Navajo American 77.00 Tasmanian (Black) 64.70 Chinese 82.60 Australian (Black) 68.00 Ancient Egyptians 35 to 65
In the early 1970s, the Czech anthropologist Eugen Strouhal examined pre-dynastic Egyptian skulls at Cambridge University. He sent some samples of the hair to the Institute of Anthropology at Charles University, Prague, to be analyzed. The hair samples were described as varying in texture from "wavy" to "curly" and in colour from "light brown" to "black". Strouhal summarized the results of the analysis:
"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)." The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations(1).
A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50. The overall average of all four sets of ancient Egyptian hair samples was 60.02. Sounds familiar . . ., just check the table!
Since microscopic analysis shows ancient Egyptian hair to be completely African, why does the hair look Caucasoid? Research has given us the answers. Hair is made of keratin protein. Keratin is composed of amino acid chains called polypeptides. In a hair, two such chains are called cross-chain polypeptides. These are held together by disulphide bonds. The bulk of the hair, the source of its strength and curl, is called the cortex. The hair shafts are made of a protective outer layer called the cuticle.
We are informed by Afro Hair - A Salon Book, that chemicals for bleaching, penning and straightening hair must reach the cortex to be effective. For hair to be permed or straightened the disulphide bonds in the cortex must be broken. The anthropologist Daniel Hardy writing in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, tells us that keratin is stable owing to disulphide bonds. However, when hair is exposed to harsh conditions it can lead to oxidation of protein molecules in the cortex, which leads to the alteration of hair texture, such as straightening.
Two British anthropologists, Brothwell and Spearman, have found evidence of cortex keratin oxidation in ancient Egyptian hair. They held that the mummification process was responsible, because of the strong alkaline substance used. This resulted in the yellowing and browning of hair as well as the straightening effect.
This means that visual appearance of the hair on mummies cannot disguise their racial affinities. The presence of blonde and brown hair on ancient Egyptian mummies has nothing to do with their racial identity and everything to do with mummification and the passage of time. As the studies have shown, when you put the evidence under a microscope the truth comes out. At last, Egyptology's prayers have been answered. It has been put out of its misery.
Its tombstone reads Egyptology, R.I.P June 2001.
Archaeological Hair:
The common misconception that all hair turns red over archaeological timescales has found its way into archaeological folklore. Whilst certain environments such as those producing bog bodies are known to yield hair of a red-brown color, in part because of the breakdown of organic matter and presence of humic acids which impart a brown color to recovered remains, it has commonly been assumed that this happens to all archaeological hair. This concept has been perpetuated by popular nicknames such as "Ginger"--affectionately given to the Pre-dynastic burial with red hair on display in the mummy rooms at the British Museum.
(read complete article here)
Hair Coloring in Africa (Henna in Ancient Egypt)
Ahmose-Henttimehu 17th Dynasty (1574 BC): Henttimehu was probably a daughter of Seqnenre-Taa II and Ahmose-Inhapi.
Smith reports that the mummy of Henttimehu own hair had been dyed a bright red at the sides, probably with henna.
Reference: G. Elliott Smith, The Royal Mummies, Duckworth Publishing; (September, 2000)
posted
Potential change to hair color can be explained more scientifically by examining the chemistry of melanin which is responsible for hair color in life. All hair contains a mixture in varying concentration of both black-brown eumelanin and red-yellow phaeomelanin pigments, which are susceptible to differential chemical change under certain extreme burial conditions (for example wet reducing conditions, or dry oxidising conditions). Importantly, phaeomelanin is much more stable to environmental conditions than eumelanin, hence the reactions occurring in the burial environment favor the preservation of phaeomelanin, revealing and enhancing the red/ yellow color of hairs containing this pigment. Color changes occur slowly under dry oxidising conditions, such as in the burials in sand at Hierakonpolis. Whether the conditions within the wood and plaster coffin contributed to accelerated color change, or whether this individual naturally had more phaeomelanin pigmentation in his hair is hard to say without further analysis. http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/hierakonpolis/field/hair.htmlPosts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Ausar writes; called long haired mummies in ancient Egypt,and the one case with Thuya was that banages made her hair appear longer than what it originally appeared. The Elder Lady might be an exception but most royal mummies are definatley not long haired.
You are correct,however,that the substance in the embalming material bas been known to straighten hair,and over time mummy hair loses elasticity that hold hair into place. Still there are Nubians and modern Upper Egyptians with a wavy type hair that is not straight but is actually very thick. Europeans have wavy hair that is very thin and has a more rounded folice as opposed to people of African desent.
Modern day Fellahin women cannot grow very long hair. You hardly ever see one with shoulder length hair.
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I know few of my fellow countrymen, actually some of my cousins who have curly hair, sometime wavy but straight hair? I also met a guy from Ivory Coast who told me that many of his tribesmen have curly hair..However I haven't met any Black African with straight hair. Black African with natural straight hair? Please show me a picture...This board has been hijacked by confused Africans from the diaspora...The funny thing is that some native Africans play along...I won't name anyone...but it won't go too far as long as I'm on this board...these native Africans recognize themselves...one in particular has been voluble in this thread...I can identify some native Africans on this board like Sundiata, Supercar and Rasol...I can also identify a lot of gullible posters who would swallow anything or who would like to impose their perception about Africans even though they are not native...well it's a mistake...and you don't go anywhere...The majority of Africans are what they are Black African with no foreign blood...trying to make them look like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Colin Powell who have obviously non African ancestry won't work... Talking about straight hair: Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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^^That's right Supercar, cut off the second half of the dense one's post, as it is irrelevant, which is why I won't even bother quoting the confused dude's post.
I reiterate:
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Solver:
quote:Originally posted by Keins:
The great diversity of aboriginal African hair as alway interest me. Straight hair is just as african as kinky/curly hair although its make up less of the majority of african hair types. Why are Africans and black people in "general" continue to view straighter hair as some sort of non-African admixture? I know that The west/Europeans dogmatics have pushed that every feature that they posess is some how originated with them only (ie narrow noses, thinner lips, and even pale skin). Why do we as Africans and Africans of the Diaspora continue to go along with this pseudobiology in doing so placing the Europeans as the basis and prototype for the human family?
posted
Africa, what about the Afar? The thread that was comparing ancient Egyptian hairsttles to modern day East African hairstyles showed an Afar boy with straightish hair. He had a lock in his hair. I've seen several other websites mention that black East Africans have naturally straight hair.
Posts: 603 | From: Mobile, Alabama | Registered: Jan 2007
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Tuareg nomads live in an area:Sahel-Sahara where they were exposed to much admixture with non Black African...there is no point to be made here...it's like saying Berber have straight hair...it's Tuareg have substantially more Black blood but they are mixed...what's your point?
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Tuareg nomads live in an area:Sahel-Sahara where they were exposed to much admixture with non Black African...there is no point to be made here...it's like saying Berber have straight hair...it's Tuareg have substantially more Black blood but they are mixed...what's your point?
Do you have scientific evidence that the seemingly frequent straight hair amongst the Tuaregs isn't indigenous?
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Do you have evidence that their straight hair is not due to admixture with non Black African?
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Do you have evidence that their straight hair is not due to admixture with non Black African?
We are adjudging a claim you made, not mine. Therefore I take it that you have no answer to the request; meaning, you have no case.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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And you tried to mislead posters by posting African Tuaregs who have been mixing with various melanoderm and leucoderm Africans...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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And you tried to mislead posters by posting African Tuaregs who have been mixing with various melanoderm and leucoderm Africans...
How?
You said:
Originally posted by AFRICA I:
..However I haven't met any Black African with straight hair. Black African with natural straight hair? Please show me a picture...
To which, I replied with pictures of Tuaregs, along with questions.
Your come back to this demonstration was:
Tuareg nomads live in an area:Sahel-Sahara where they were exposed to much admixture with non Black African...there is no point to be made here...it's like saying Berber have straight hair...it's Tuareg have substantially more Black blood but they are mixed...what's your point? - Africa I
To which, you were asked to validate *your* claim:
Do you have scientific evidence that the seemingly frequent straight hair amongst the Tuaregs isn't indigenous?
To which you provided:
No answer.
Based on this demonstration, it's you who is trying to dupe people without a case. Cannot be done.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by AFRICA I: Do you have evidence that their straight hair is not due to admixture with non Black African?
Burdan of proof fallacy. If you claim straight hair is due to 'mixture', then you must show that this is so.
How come East Asians and some Black South Asians have straighter hair than Europeans?
How come Australian Aboriginine and Pacific Islander show the same ranges of hair texture from wavy to 'wooly' as do Sahelien Africans?
Identify the source/cause of straight hair in terms of population and genes, and then track it's distribution.
Show that at point of time 'x', prior to admixture, Africans only had a limited range of hair textures, which were then subsequently modified by admixture.
If you can't do any of these things, then you can't logically claim that straight hair is caused by admixture.
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Prove that Tuareg straight hair is not due to admixture which your original post implied...you brought them in the first place...Rasol, we are talking solely about Black Africans...the level of dishonesty Mystery and Rasol are bringing in this thread is shameful.
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by AFRICA I: Prove that Tuareg straight hair is not due to admixture which your original post implied...you brought them in the first place...Rasol, we are talking solely about Black Africans.
Actually the burdan of proof is on you Africa I, because you claim that a particular hair texture is due to a particular cause.
Yet you have no evidence of this.
Because you have no evidence of your claim, you appeal to shame.....
quote:..the level of dishonesty Mystery and Rasol are bringing in this thread is shameful.
This is a form of special pleading - ie - shame on other people for not agreeing with you.
No one cares about your pity pleas. No one cares about your personal like or dislike of other posters on this forum.
All we care about is whether you can or cannot prove your claims.
If you can't, then you might as well stay silent.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Ethiopian genetic admixture is well known as well...Yemen is next door...and some have Italian blood...the skin tone shows obvious sign of admixture among many people in the horn of Africa like in Somalia and Ethiopia...and the general hair texture is curly wavy or kinky not straight. Rasol: prove that straight hair is not due to foreign admixture among Tuareg...just prove it...if you prove it then I will humbly admit that I'm wrong...Mystery brought the Tuareg and you acted as an excited cheerleader...now since you are on the same wagon...prove that Tuareg straight hair is not due to foreign admixture...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:In my family our hair ranges from straight to wavy to Kinky to curly it's all there
Many Somali have mixed with Yemeni, I'm pretty sure you must have some Arab cousins somewhere...It is not unusual for Somali to marry Yemeni...Genetics indicate admixture among Somali, so the question is again is the straight hair due to foreign admixture or it is indigenous? Bear in mind that all the straight hair example that were shown came from people who mixed with non Africans over thousand years...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
^ I knew sooner or later this thread would be hijacked by the great phenotype obssessed one! LOLPosts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by rasol: Actually the burden of proof is on you Africa I, because you claim that a particular hair texture is due to a particular cause.
quote:Originally posted by AFRICA I: Ethiopian genetic admixture is well known
Do you know how to actually address your own claims?
The above is....
Completely irrelevant to your claims about the hair texture of Taureg.
quote:as well...Yemen is next door...and some have Italian blood...
^Are you on drugs?
Completely irrelevant to your claims about the hair texture of Taureg.
quote:the skin tone shows obvious sign of admixture
Khoisan on average have lighter skin than Ethiopians, so this is another nonsensical claim and ->
Completely irrelevant to your claims about the hair texture of Taureg.
^ Your response is a pathetic collection of hot-air statements swingingly wildly in desparate search for a point.
You didn't even come close to saying anything relevant to the subject, much less to proving your empty claims.
quote:Rasol: prove that straight hair is not due to foreign admixture among Tuareg
^ Burdan of proof fallacy occurs when you demand proof of a negative, which is impossible. X is true because there is no proof that X is false, therefore prove that X is false
Specifically, reread my 1st post in this thread.
I have already stated the fact that there is no known homogenous source/cause for any one hair texture, and that hair texture variation precedes the existence of leucoderms, and therefor cannot per se be attributed to leucoderm as evidenced by....
That's my position.
However, you claim *YOU KNOW*, therefore....
The burdan is on you to prove it.
All you've proven so far is that you are not even capable of making a coherent argument.... much less do you know anything about genetics of hair texture.
Africa I, Either prove your claim, or silence your idiotic prattle.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Definitely P.S: Don't escape in Australia, I'm talking about Black Africans... Khoisans are lighter than Ethiopian, their skin stone is due to the fact that they are exposed to UV level that are inferior to the ones other Black Africans are exposed to , same thing as the Central African Pygmies...but tell me about UV index in the horn of Africa...and please state clearly how it corolates with Ethiopian skin stone...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I think that we all agree that humanity began on the continent of Africa, right?? With that being said and agreed upon, wouldn't it be logical that every known phenotype in the world today originated in Africa as well? I find it quite strange that most posters here agree with the African origin of humankind, but waste time and argue about admixture, as if we are talking about seperate species. I don't understand why this phenotype issue is even an issue.
Posts: 34 | From: Lurkerville | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Conclusion: no one in this thread has a clear answer...some people tried to lie and they failed...
Posts: 919 | From: AFRICA | Registered: Apr 2007
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the level of dishonesty Mystery and Rasol are bringing in this thread is shameful.
More evidence that your talk of Tuareg hair textures being due to "mixture with non black Africans', is something of a "Simon says" - scientifically bankrupt.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Sep 2005
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What are you talking about, sportbilly?? Do you think when T-rex said black racists and supremacists, he meant you?
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We're not.
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should know that assigning a trait outside of Africa is not the most logical thing to do...
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