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Author Topic: Exodus: a meshing of written traditions
alTakruri~
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There was no Jewish people at the time of the Exodus
rather they were Israelites or Children of Israel of which
Judah or Yehudah was just one tribe. By Manethos time
Yehudah or Judea was the only Israelite nation. They
called themselves Y*hudiym from which derives our word
Jew. Jew is just our way of translating Y*hudi, so yes, the
letter J nonwithstanding, there were Jews in ancient times.

Incidently, the Torah of Moshe extensively details laws of leprosy.
This wasnt Hansons disease but an affliction which in humans turns
the skin pale and the hair white or yellow. Lepers who turned pale
from head to foot could pass the trait on to their descendents and
were not considered impure.

Manetho writes of two royal advisors [of Ramses II]
suggesting the expulsion of a population of "lepers"
and such from Egypt which we infer as the origins of
the Judeans of Manetho's time. He writes that those
to be cast out were led by a man named Osarsif from
Heliopolis who changed his name to Moses demanding
of the "impure" people stationed in Avaris that they slay
roast and eat the sacred animals and cease worship of
the gods. The then reigning pharaoh was supposed to
have fought the impure people and their foreign allies to
the point of persuing those in retreat clear to the border of
Syria.

Another Egyptian writer Cheremon tells a similar though
even more confusing story as compared to the one in the
Torah. He makes Joseph a conspirator alongside Moses!
This author also makes a character who,
after as a babe being born from a mother
who concealed herself in a cave,delivers Egypt from
the polluted ones.

Manetho gives these royal names in his version:

0) Ramses - father of Amenophis
1) Amenophis
2) Sethos Ramses - son of Amenophis

Cheremon mentions:

1) Amenophis
2) Messene - his son

Torah tells us the Hebrews worked on the cities Pithom and Raamses.
If so, the Exodus had to happen after there was a Ramses.
Currently Egyptologists know of these successive 19th
dynasty pharaohs. They fit Torah, Manetho and Cheremon:

1) ? ?Ramses I ? ?-1307
2) ? ?Sethos I ? ? ? -1306
3) ? ?Ramses II ? -1290 ?(as Manetho's Ramses)
4) ? ?Merneptah ?-1224 ?(as Manetho's and Cheremon's Amenophis)
5a) Sethos II ? ? ?-1214 ?(as Manetho's Sethos grandson of Ramses son of Amenophis)
5b) Amenmesse ?co-regent w/Sethos II (as Cheremon's Messene son of Amenophis)

Seeing Manetho and Cheremon possibly using Amenophis
for Merneptah their sequence otherwise fits known history though
the dates are skewed by 100 years from the Jewish
reckoning of circa ?-1313 (i.e., 2448 AM) as the year of the Exodus.

Still, knowing Moshe was 80 at the Exodus and
80 years before Merneptah's reign gives -1304 to -1294
for the beginning years of repair work on Pithom and Raamses
which allows the latter city to be named in honor of Ramses I.

I used Josephus, his fragments of Manetho and Cheremon, as my source.
Against Apion I.25 ? through I.35 ?http://www.fullbooks.com/Against-Apion1.html

[You can read the above in better format and with color aids at
Egypt Mad » Egypt » Ancient Egypt and Egyptology » Ancient Egypt and Biblical History
Posted: Dec. 06 2004,02:39]


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Djehuti
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^ I've read this thread before when it was first posted, but I forgot to reply to it.

One question I have is that if Manetho's story is true, does this mean that the Hebrews people if not all of them then most of them had this skin condition?? I recall that in the part of 'Exodus' when Moses was chastised by his sister for marrying a Zipporah it was said God punished her with such a skin affliction.

I recall you made another thread discussing this topic further.

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meninarmer
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alTakruri
Interesting. Avaris being the Hykos capital.
If it wasn't Leprosy (Hanson's) and was genetic, then it must have been something closer to a genetic deformity.
Have you done any follow up to this?

Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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