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I have previously posted here what are essential facts on the origins of peoples; namely the Wolof and Yoruba who have provided us with much historical documentations. In all cases there have been detractors, some of whom have gone so far as to suggest that the information that I was presenting was "nonsense."
So, I will try a different tact; I will start from the present and work backwards and we will see at which point there is an objection to the facts being presented:
My own Louisiana roots
I was born in Louisiana, and my entire maternal and paternal family is from that state, and on that basis, it is almost a certainty that some, if not much, of my ancestry is Wolof.
The Wolof in Louisiana
quote: Hall methodically argues that two-thirds of the slaves that arrived in Louisiana were brought from Senegambia, "a site of the great medieval Ghana, Mali, and Songhai trade," a region homogeneous in culture and history, located between the rivers Senegal and Gambia.
The slaves from this region spoke Serrer, Wolof, and Pulaar, which are closely related, and Malinke, spoken in the east by the Mande people. Hall supports with data the fact that Senegambia was the main source of slave trade between Africa and Louisiana in the eighteenth century The Origins of Louisiana Creole
quote: Louisiana Creole developed within the first decade of the arrival of the first trans-Atlantic slave-trade ships in 1719. Two-thirds of these first Africans were brought from Senegambia. As a result, the Louisiana Creole language is closest to the Creole of Mauritius Island in the Indian Ocean, where Senegambians were also the formative African population. Folktales and proverbs in Louisiana Creole, most notably the Bouki/Lapin stories, are mainly Wolof in origin. But terms for religious amulets, for example gris-gris and zinzin, derive from Mande languages which were the lingua franca in Senegambia throughout the Atlantic slave trade. Franco-African Peoples of Haiti and Louisiana, The by Hall, Gwendolyn Midlo
quote: The culture they brought with them -- music, language, food, folklore -- became the foundation of Louisiana's distinctive Creole culture, a way of life for both whites and blacks for hundreds of years to this day.
"Even the Uncle Remus stories were originally Wolof folktales which were first written down in Louisiana," Dr. Hall said, referring to one of the Senegambian ethnic groups. "For so long there was this tendency, even in the most prestigious academic circles, to see Africans as an abstraction, coming from a simple single place. But now we're starting to see it as a place of great complexity, and the different ethnicities greatly affected the development of African-American culture."
quote: For many African-Americans, especially those from Louisiana, historians say, the search (for their roots) would start and end(?) right here in Senegal.
Ibrahima Seck is a cultural historian, who teaches at University Cheikh Anta Diop in Dakar. He has spent the past few years excavating and renovating a former slave-owning plantation in southeastern Louisiana. He says the plan is to turn it into a museum.
He explains that about 70 percent of African slaves in the Mississippi River valley came from the part of west Africa that became Senegal and The Gambia. Many of them were members of the Wolof ethnic group.
"If you go to southwest Louisiana, you find thousands of people whose family name is Senegal," he said. "That means, originally, they were Wolof, because in the plantations of Louisiana, they were listed as Senegal, and those people chose to pick that family name after emancipation." Link Between Senegal, US Creole Culture Explored By Naomi Schwarz
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Quite interesting. Senegal had Jolof rice, New Orleans has Jambalaya and "Dirty" rice.
Just like many in francophone Africa, many black southern Louisianians like to claim affinity to the french settlers. Many have french surnames.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote: Although...African-derived words came from all of the five or six major cultural groups of West Africans enslaved in North America, many of the earliest words were introduced by the Wolof people. The African Wolofs were brought to the North American colonies as enslaved people between 1670 and 1700. Working principally as house slaves, they may have been the first Africans whose cultural elements and language were assimilated into the developing culture of America. Additionally, a large number of Wolof words took root in American English because Wolof people were frequently used as interpreters by European slavers along the coast of West Africa in the early years of the slave trade. These African interpreters used Wolof names for African foodstuffs fed to enslaved Africans on the middle passage, such as yams and bananas--words that then became parts of Standard English in North America.
some American words derived from Wolof
OK < o ke - waw kay "all right" Wolof & Mande dig < dega "understand" guys < gay "fellows" honkie < hong "red, pink" - White people are described in most African languages as "Red" jive < jey hep, hip, hippie < hipi "to open one's eyes" cat < kai -ie, person sock < sok "to beat with a pestle" banjo < bania - a stringed instrument bouki < Bouki "hyena dupe of Wolof tales, fox of Louisiana Creole tales."
Saaraba, a 1988 film, is a classic film that was shot almost entirely in Wolof. If you live in an urban area where there's a sizeable African-American population, you can probably find a copy of this film at your local library. While watching the film, try and pay close attention to the sound of Wolof; that much in itself is a learning experience - listening; now, of course, this will be difficult during the times that the beautiful female lead is onscreen, but try and listen here as well...
For those of you who are unable to get a copy of the film, you can view a 10 minute excerpt on YouTube at:
I won't offer here what my own opinion as to what this language sounds like to me; for now, we're still in Louisiana and Senegal...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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Its a little eschewed though because I read that many Haitians came to New Orleans during the 1800's. Many Haitians might have came from Wolof origins but I can imagine there is also some Dahomey and Kongolese origins as well.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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^^ I believe this may be concerning two different waves of African slave labor. The direct from Senegambia being earlier. You can certainly see the influences of both in southeastern Louisiana.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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Could it not be possible that these are languages that are members of the same branch of Niger-Congo as Wolof??
Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:ausar wrote: Its a little eschewed though because I read that many Haitians came to New Orleans during the 1800's. Many Haitians might have came from Wolof origins but I can imagine there is also some Dahomey and Kongolese origins as well.
You don't have to imagine; it's reality: from Dahomey/Benin... came the Fon, Yoruba, Dendi, Bariba, Peul, Betammaribe, Somba, Mina, Xueda, and Aja peoples. and from Kongo... came the Kongo, Vili, Yombe, and Bembe peoples.
quote:thegaul wrote: I believe this may be concerning two different waves of African slave labor. The direct from Senegambia being earlier. You can certainly see the influences of both in southeastern Louisiana.
There is no evidence, to my knowledge, of any two waves of African slaves being imported into Louisiana; the African slave trade was one continuous wave which led to the gradual de-population of the Continent. The African slave trade was one continuous process and part of this process was that in the case of Louisiana, two thirds of the Africans first brought in were from Senegambia and most were Wolof and most of the "house Negroes" were Wolof and were therefore influential in having an impact on American culture (re-visit what is presented above).
This pattern of an influential African slave elite can be seen in the influence of the Yoruba in both Cuba and Brazil. You would be forgiven if you thought that all of the Africans brought to Cuba or Brazil were of Yoruba descent!
In Louisiana, it was the Wolof who played this role and who are credited with the creation of Louisiana's Creole culture...
quote:Djehuti wrote: Could it not be possible that these are languages that are members of the same branch of Niger-Congo as Wolof??
If you have read what was presented above, you would know that these languages - Wolof, Peul, Mande, ... are all related. -but I rather suspect that your statement "the same branch of Niger-Congo as Wolof" is an effort to pre-empt the logical flow of this thread; right now, we're dealing with the most recent evidence of the emigrations of the Wolof people... Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:ausar wrote: Its a little eschewed though because I read that many Haitians came to New Orleans during the 1800's. Many Haitians might have came from Wolof origins but I can imagine there is also some Dahomey and Kongolese origins as well.
You don't have to imagine; it's reality: from Dahomey/Benin... came the Fon, Yoruba, Dendi, Bariba, Peul, Betammaribe, Somba, Mina, Xueda, and Aja peoples. and from Kongo... came the Kongo, Vili, Yombe, and Bembe peoples.
quote:thegaul wrote: I believe this may be concerning two different waves of African slave labor. The direct from Senegambia being earlier. You can certainly see the influences of both in southeastern Louisiana.
There is no evidence, to my knowledge, of any two waves of African slaves being imported into Louisiana; the African slave trade was one continuous wave which led to the gradual de-population of the Continent. The African slave trade was one continuous process and part of this process was that in the case of Louisiana, two thirds of the Africans first brought in were from Senegambia and most were Wolof and most of the "house Negroes" were Wolof and were therefore influential in having an impact on American culture (re-visit what is presented above).
This pattern of an influential African slave elite can be seen in the influence of the Yoruba in both Cuba and Brazil. You would be forgiven if you thought that all of the Africans brought to Cuba or Brazil were of Yoruba descent!
In Louisiana, it was the Wolof who played this role and who are credited with the creation of Louisiana's Creole culture...
quote:Djehuti wrote: Could it not be possible that these are languages that are members of the same branch of Niger-Congo as Wolof??
If you have read what was presented above, you would know that these languages - Wolof, Peul, Mande, ... are all related. -but I rather suspect that your statement "the same branch of Niger-Congo as Wolof" is an effort to pre-empt the logical flow of this thread; right now, we're dealing with the most recent evidence of the emigrations of the Wolof people...
What I was referring to was that you can plainly see the influence of people from Haiti and those direct from Senegambia, therefore representing two different waves of labor out of many.
From Haiti, you have the popular "shot-gun" houses and the constant reminder of the french occupation, whom had a heavy hand in the carribean. Knowing that Haitians are obviously of West African descent, but developed some peculiarities while in Haiti that was brought to southeastern Louisiana. I should know...I'm from there. My great-grandfather was from the Carribean.
From Wolof (or West Africa in general) you have the food and music such as Jambalaya and Gumbo and the many dishes made with rice and okra.
You may have taken my reference to "waves" as too literal.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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You can certainly here all influences (linguistic, musical) in this classic New Orleans song. I don't even know what "Iko iko ande" means but may have been derived from The Gambia...
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Thanks thegaul for your important contribution of this popular Louisiana song;
possible origins of the ditty, from Wikipedia;
quote: The lyrics of the song are based on Louisiana Creole French. The phrase Iko Iko may have been derived from one or more of the languages of the Kwa language family, spread along the Gulf of Guinea, where the chant "ayekoo, ayekoo" means "congratulations" or "well done." It may also come from Gambia, possibly from the phrase Ago!, meaning "listen!" or "attention!". The line from the chorus, Jock-a-mo feen-o and-dan-day echoes the original title amidst Creole palaver.
The Gambia languages are Mandinka, Wolof, Fulani
the lyrics...
quote: My grandma and your grandma Sittin' by the fire My grandma said to your grandma "I'm gonna set your flag on fire"
Chorus Talkin' bout... Hey now! Hey now! Iko, Iko, un de' Jockamo feeno ai na nay' Jockamo fee na nay'
Look at my king all dressed in red Iko, Iko, un ay Betcha five dollars he'll kill ya dead Jockamo fee na nay'
Chorus
My flag boy and your flag boy Sittin' by the fire My flag boy said to your flag boy "I'm gonna set your flag on fire"
Chorus
Jockamo fee na nay' Iko!
Chorus
See that guy all dressed in green Iko, Iko, un ay He's not a man, he's a lova machine Jockamo fee na nay'
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^^ This isnt the only New Orleans song like that. There are many where you just think they are talking jibberish.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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^^ Find for me exactly where I said there were " ONLY " two waves of labor? Do a search on both of my initial posts for the word " only ".
The topic of discussion are those that came from Senegambia and Ausar brought in those from Haiti. Try to keep up. Try to comprehend a lil better b4 posting in a premature PMS like rant.
Peace
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
It's also not like they had planes to make back and forth trips to the same areas back then. The transportation of slaves from Africa was an expensive and many times life threatening endeavor. For the sake of efficiency, it's obvious they would grab as many as possible from a certain location and bring them to a certain location in the Americas....hence the "waves".
It's thought that in some islands off of South Carolina most of them have lineage going to Cameroon. In the case of New Orleans, it's being posited here that it may be Senegambia. I know for a fact that most people from New Orleans don't leave the area. Generation upon generation has lived there for centuries. It's onlt VERY recently that there has been a "brain drain" to places like Atlanta. Therefore, it would be likely that many of the black residents may still share similar African lineage. I provided one song that may prove as much.
Send me the check for your education on this matter later. Then again, you seem to get off on back and forth drivel on the mundane. Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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There appears to be a consensus here regarding the presence and the influence of the Wolof in America, and particularly in Louisiana.
quote: During the Atlantic Slave Trade - 1502 to 1859 - the Wolof kingdoms exported 300 to 500 slaves per year to the Americas.
What we need to do now is to examine their presence in Senegambia and to ultimately fix their point of residency prior to their arrival in the region...
The Wolof Empire/Jolof/Diolof/Djolof or Olof was a medieval West African state that ruled parts of Senegal and The Gambia from 1360 to 1890...
Origin of the Djolof empire - 1350 ad
quote: Traditional accounts among the Wolof agree that the founder of the state and later empire was Ndyadyane Ndyaye who lived in the 13th century. The foundations of the empire were set down by the voluntary association of several small states beginning with Waalo in the north. At the time just prior to the empire's formation, Waalo was divided into villages ruled by separate kings using the Serer title Laman. A dispute over wood near a prominent lake almost led to bloodshed among the rulers but was stopped by the mysterious appearance of a stranger from the lake. The stranger divided the wood fairly and disappeared, leaving the people in awe. The people then feigned a second dispute and kidnapped the stranger when he returned. They offered him the kingship of their land and convinced him to do so and become mortal by offering him a beautiful woman to marry. When these events were reported to the ruler of Sine, also a great magician, he is reported to have exclaimed "Ndyadyane Ndyaye" in amazement. The ruler of Sine then suggested all rulers between the Senegal River and the Gambia River voluntarily submit to this man, which they did.
quote: The new state of Djolof, named for the central province where the king resided, was a vassal of the Mali Empire for much of its early history. Djolof remained within that empire's sphere of influence until the latter half of the 14th century. During a succession dispute in 1360 between two rival lineages within the Mali Empire's royal bloodline, the Wolof became permanently independent. A close examination of Wolof societal and political structure reveals that at least some of its institutions may have been borrowed directly or developed alongside those of its larger predecessor.
Djolof was also heavily influenced by the Almoravids and Takrur:
Takrur: c. 800 - c. 1285 was an ancient West African state which flourished roughly parallel to the Sudanic Ghana Empire.
Almoravids: The Almoravid was a movement which began among the nomadic Berbers living in the desert north of Ghana. They were fervent Muslims and they declared holy war, or jihad, against the kingdom of Ghana. The Almoravids pushed Ghana over the edge, for the kingdom had for a couple centuries been close to collapse because of the spread of the Sahara desert and the overuse of agricultural land. The Almoravids so weakened the Ghanaian empire, that it finally collapsed as individual ethnic groups and chieftaincies seceded...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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^ Wally, I can't help but to think you're interested in Wolof roots because of Diop.
By the way, I'm sure you know Takrur is what our friend Al-Takruri is named after if not actually being from that area.
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I'll be researching this, but do you have any info on when the Fulani entered the picture and what affects they had on the region? Maybe some of their distinctive behaviors have also survived in southeastern Lousisana, which is distinctly different than the rest of the state and entire region.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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Though cultural traits are as old as the LSA Fulani proper first appear late in historic times, their legends posit beginnings a scant 1300 - 1400 years ago.
Soninke legend would have them to be maybe another several hundred years older when known as the Boroma their servile inferiors who previously were bondsman to the Burdama (pre-Tuareg) at a time between the end of Tichitt and the beginning of Ghana.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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^ What about neolithic rock paintings in places like Tasili N' Ajer? Do you agree with the assessment that they represent Fulani based on not only facial features but hairstyles and cattle rituals, or rather another related peoples??
Posts: 26285 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Thoth (a.k.a. Djehuti): ^ Wally, I can't help but to think you're interested in Wolof roots because of Diop.
By the way, I'm sure you know Takrur is what our friend Al-Takruri is named after if not actually being from that area.
Of course, it is due to the scholarship of Diop that provides us with so much information; this information led me to the discovery of the impact of the Wolof in the history of America, and particularly Louisiana, a state in which I was born. And it is far easier to trace the origins of the Wolof, and because of the work of J. Olumide Lucas, of the Yoruba, than it would be to do a similar type of work on, say, the Chamba, or the Igbo. One doesn't seek to prove a relationship before first discovering that it exists...which is the gist of this topic...
quote: The ten most prominent African ethnic groups exported to the Americas, according to slave documentation of the era, were:
Akan of Ghana and Ivory Coast Mbundu of Angola BaKongo of Congo and Angola Igbo of southeastern Nigeria Yoruba of southwestern Nigeria Mandé speakers of Upper Guinea Wolof of Senegal and The Gambia Chamba of Cameroon Makua of Mozambique
Takrur
The formation of the state of Takrur came about as an influx of Fulani noble clans from the east settled after the formation of the Soninké state of Ghana.
Now opening Budge's electronic dictionary; on page 887b I find a word which I read as Tekrur - the "T" with a "D" sound - and which means "terrible, frightening" with the determinative of a crouched warrior...
--and, oh yes, I've recognized long ago that alTakruri is from the Arabic nisbe meaning "of the Takrur."
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: Find for me exactly where I said there were " ONLY " two waves of labor?
quote: I believe this may be concerning two different waves of African slave labor. The direct from Senegambia being earlier.
Don't try to play word games everyone saw and knew what you said.
You use to post as hotep and were ghetto as hell. So it is not without surprise that you wouldn't have the ability to both comprehend and understand what you wrote.
Two waves. What idiocy.
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As I said, cultural traits as old as the LSA are practiced by Fulani. Facial features and hairstyles on LSA rock art is not exclusive to Fulani.
No doubt LSA Saharan populations contributed to Fulani stock, but, is this to the exclusion of others like the Soninke and Bamana for instance.
I don't know if delving into this belongs in this thread. I'm sure there are threads out there already that have dealt with this.
The Fulani core is best represented by the Bororo. It's plausible that halPulaaren may be composed of disparate intermarried lineages united by culture and language.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ What about neolithic rock paintings in places like Tasili N' Ajer? Do you agree with the assessment that they represent Fulani based on not only facial features but hairstyles and cattle rituals, or rather another related peoples??
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by argyle104: The Gaul wrote:
quote: It's thought that in some islands
quote: it's being posited here that it may be Senegambia
Folks, the boy can only speak in vague unsubstantiated terms. Its exactly what the trolls do. "It is thought" "It is believed" "It has been said".
That's the type of garbage one finds on wikipedia.
As far as those that live on Bunce Island in South Carolina, it's been well documented as I've seen it on numerous programs. It is actually the Sierra Leone region they have lineage to, in which they also relate to the Wolof and Fula (inter-related people) according to this.
Just because I said "it is thought" doesn't make it less true, as even a rudimentary amount of research would have shown you.
I'm also not anybody named "hotep" since I don't have time to post here that often and change screen names. I'm not a complete asshole like you that only can post things in opposition to others either. The supreme trait of a straight loser.
Just because you projected your own ignorance to what I posted doesn't change anything. No amount of whining from you can change your lack of comprehension.
Moving on.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote: I believe this may be concerning two different waves of African slave labor. The direct from Senegambia being earlier. You can certainly see the influences of both in southeastern Louisiana.
People it is interesting to note how "The Gaul" (LOL) avoided many of the questions asked of him including the one below.
Why would they only be from Senegal or Gambia?
Basically you are taking the eurocentrists playbook and running with it. Why?
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In her classic play "A Raisin in the Sun", author Lorraine Hansberry has this important exchange take place between George Murchison, a "bourgie Negro" college student and Beneatha, Walter Lee Young's sister:
quote: George: Here we go! A lecture on the African past! On our Great West African Heritage! In one second we will hear all about the great Ashanti empires; the great Songhay civilizations and the great sculpture of Benin and then some poetry in the Bantu. . . . Let's face it, baby, your heritage is nothing but a bunch of raggedy-assed spirituals and some grass huts."
Beneatha -screaming from another room- : the Ashanti were performing surgical operations when the English — were still tatooing themselves with blue dragons!
It is significant here to point out that Lorraine Hansberry's uncle was the renowned African historian William Leo Hansberry - she knew her history...
An empire that was established in Western Sudan around 300 A.D., It was an empire lead by kings, princes, governors, generals, judges, etc. along with other skillful doctors, engineers, architects, artists, mathematicians, and farmers. Gold and iron brought wealth to this empire. In particular, the use of iron revolutionized their social and military systems.
One of its more renown kings was Tenkamenin who reigned from 1037 to 1075 A.D. The king's main strength was in his governance, for each day he would go out and listen to the concerns of the people; his was a democratic monarchy which practiced religious tolerance.
Mali Empire :c1300-1500 AD
In 1240 AD, the Mali Empire was established by the Mandingo people. It held some of Ghana's political, economic, and religious ways. The Mandingo of Mali, who were successful in agricultural, became quite wealthy from trades with the Muslim people of the Sahara and the north. It was during this empire when the great city of Timbuktu emerged as one of the greatest cities of learning of its time.
Mali's monumental moment of glory occurred around early 14th century when it was known for it's prosperity and peace as well as law, order, and justice. In 1326 AD, Mansa Musa emerged as a powerful king who extended the Mali empire across Africa, and increased commerce.
Songhay Empire: c700-1600 AD
As the Mali Empire was declining in 1350, the empire of Songhay was rising under the leadership of Sonni Ali I. Many writers described Sonni Ali as an uncontrollable and harsh ruler. His reign ended after a civil war.
Three years after the civil war, Askia the Great ruled the empire of Songhay. He very much emulated Mansa Musa by adopting Islam. Timbuktu was the cultural capital as well as the center of international commerce. The Portuguese would establish trading with them in the year 1448. The Songhay Empire fell into turmoil in 1591 under the invasions by the Moors. And when the Moors left, Europeans seized colonial control of the land...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by argyle104: The Gaul wrote:
quote: I believe this may be concerning two different waves of African slave labor. The direct from Senegambia being earlier. You can certainly see the influences of both in southeastern Louisiana.
People it is interesting to note how "The Gaul" (LOL) avoided many of the questions asked of him including the one below.
Why would they only be from Senegal or Gambia?
Basically you are taking the eurocentrists playbook and running with it. Why?
"Sublette is a sonic sleuth charting the successive waves of Africans who shaped this black city's culture: from the first arrival, in Nouvelle-Orléans, of two slave ships from Benin carrying the Ardra people, from whose foddun spiritual practice derives the core of Louisiana voodoo; to the influxduring the early French periodof Wolof and Bambara people from the Senegal River in West Africa , whose melismatic singing and stringed instruments were crucial forerunners of blues and the banjo; to the Spanish era's preponderance of slaves from the Central African forest culture of Kongo, whose hand-drummed polyrhythms came to undergird dance rhythms from Havana to Harlem. Drawing on travelers' sketches and his wide knowledge of Afro-Caribbean music, Sublette conjures up a vivid picture of what these scenes in Congo Square may have looked and sounded like."
"However, American efforts to prevent the entry of Haitian immigrants proved even less successful than those of the French and the Spanish. Indeed, the number of immigrants skyrocketed between May 1809 and June 1810 , when Spanish authorities expelled thousands of Haitians from Cuba, where they had taken refuge several years earlier. In the wake of this action, New Orleans' Creole whites overcame their chronic fears and clamored for the entry of the white refugees and their slaves. Their objective was to strengthen Louisiana's declining French-speaking community and offset Anglo-American influence. The white Creoles felt that the increasing American presence posed a greater threat to their interests than a potentially dangerous class of enslaved West Indians."
These two groups are the GROUPS I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN RESPONDING TO AUSAR'S INQUIRY ABOUT HAITIANS (YOU DUMB F$%K!!!) and represent two different WAVES of immigrants and slave labor at different times, but NOT the ONLY influxes as you keep parroting, which I NEVER stated in the first place.
This is not concerning any other groups because Wally is presenting information on groups that has ties to Sudan and Ancient Egypt.
Can't be more simpler than that dumbass. Just keep staring at the painting. You'll see the flying bird one day.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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The Wolof State (fl. 14th–16th century) The state that dominated what is now inland Senegal during the early period of European contact with West Africa. Founded soon after 1200, the Wolof state was ruled by a king, or burba, whose duties were both political and religious. During the 14th century, it began to develop satellite states, of which the most important was Cayor. During the 15th century Wolof was a powerful empire, on the border of which lay the tributary state of Sine-Solum, ruled by the Serer, a kindred people to the Wolof.
Before the founding of the Empire
Wolof forefathers migrated west to the coast from Mali following the defeat of the Empire of Ghana in the 11th century. Oral family histories indicate that at least some of the first settlers in the area were of Fulani origin. Much Wolof history has been preserved in oral praise songs which are recited by griots ("professional praise singers") from which accounts indicate an organized Wolof presence in what is still their homelands.
Wolof Origins Before Mali and Ghana...
There is evidence that before the Wolof drifted into Ghana and Mali and into south-eastern Mauritania, they had emigrated from the Sahara before it became hostile to farming due to desertification and the deterioration of the environment...
Wolof photo
Senegalese girls
And Fulani, everywhere...
quote: Over the centuries, the Fulani migrated with their cattle to occupy vast areas in the Sahel and Savannah regions of West Africa and evolved into many subgroups with a variety of designations. Presently, they live in communities throughout much of West Africa, from Senegal to Cameroon and as far east as Sudan (where they are referred to as Fellaata), Ethiopia, and Eritrea (where they are referred to as Tekuri). The Fulani range covers an area larger than the continental United States and western Europe combined.
quote: This is not concerning any other groups because Wally is presenting information on groups that has ties to Sudan and Ancient Egypt.
People, this fool actually believes the fantasy that:
(A. the Wolof are descendents of the ancient egyptians
and
B. (he seems also to be implying they are the only people who are
This is what low self-esteem does to people. It makes them create the most pathetic and sorriest fantasies and mythogies to help regain a positive mindset.
Shall we make an appointment for you with Dr. Frazier Crain?
posted
Ummm no dumbass. Fulani people (and a few others) are from that area, which you are too stupid to know, and I didn't say who descended who. I actually know some well educated Wolof people who know more about their own history than you ever will.
The Ancient Egyptians also were not one monotonous group of African people.
I'm done with you so your usual thread poison will end here...aka the ES Vanilla Ice.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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The actual name of this medieval state was Wagadougou or Ouagadugu and was founded by the Soninke people. Ghana, as it would be called by Europeans and Arabs, was called such because that was the title of its emperor.
quote: Oral history and other sources suggest that the ancestors of some of Ghana's residents entered this area at least as early as the tenth century A.D. and that migration from the north and east continued thereafter.
These migrations resulted in part from the formation and disintegration of a series of large states in the western Sudan (the region north of modern Ghana drained by the Niger River). Prominent among these Sudanic states was the Soninke Kingdom of Ancient Ghana.
The 9th Century Arab writer, Al Yaqubi, described ancient Ghana as one of the three most organised states in the region (the others being Gao and Kanem in the central Sudan). Its rulers were renowned for their wealth in gold, the opulence of their courts, and their warrior-hunting skills. They were also masters of the trade in gold, which drew North African merchants to the western Sudan. The military achievements of these and later western Sudanic rulers and their control over the region's gold mines constituted the nexus of their historical relations with merchants and rulers of North Africa and the Mediterranean.
Some inhabitants of present Ghana had ancestors linked with the medieval Ghana. This can be traced down to the Mande and Voltaic people of Northern Ghana--Mamprussi, Dagomba and the Gonja.
Anecdotal evidence connected the Akans to this great Empire. The evidence lies in names like Danso shared by the Akans of modern day Ghana and Mandikas of Senegal/Gambia who have strong links with the Empire...
> the chronology of Mali...
1076 - Almoravid Berbers defeat Empire of Ghana Early 1200s - Sumanguru rules the fragmented Empire of Ghana and attacks Kangaba, but spares Sundiata.s life
1230 - Sundiata becomes king of Mali
1235 to 1255 - Sundiata builds Empire of Mali; gold from Mali becomes source of gold for Muslim and European currency
1255 to 1270 - Reign of Mansa Wali, Sundiata.s son; expansion of empire; growth in agricultural production
1307 . 1332 Reign of Mansa Musa; empire doubles in size and trade triples; Muslim influence worldwide increases
1312 - Mansa Musa makes Islam the official religion of Mali
1324 - Mansa Musa begins his pilgrimage to Mecca
1332 - Mansa Maghan begins to rule; Timbuktu is later raided
c. 1375 to 1400 - Songhay asserts independence
c. 1400 to 1480 - Empire of Mali pressed by the Songhay and Tuareg; northern province breaks away; Jenne and Timbuktu assert independence; decline of Mali.s power; empire raided by the Mossi
1471 - Portuguese arrive in West Africa
1493 to 1495 - An ambassador of the Portuguese king visits Mansa Mamudu
c1600 - Collapse of the Empire of Mali ...
Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: The ten most prominent African ethnic groups exported to the Americas, according to slave documentation of the era, were:
Akan of Ghana and Ivory Coast Mbundu of Angola BaKongo of Congo and Angola Igbo of southeastern Nigeria Yoruba of southwestern Nigeria Mandé speakers of Upper Guinea Wolof of Senegal and The Gambia Chamba of Cameroon Makua of Mozambique
So you have a whole website dedicated to whining about the why man be lying and stealing ejupt from us. And yet here you are quoting them for, of all reasons to say which groups of Africans were slaves.
Folks the boy has on his website that Hamites actually exist. So should it not surprise that he would post garbage that basically says that people who "Wally believes are negroid" were slaves?
Wally why would those people be the top 10 people brought to the Americas?
Folks watch him dance around it, but we all know he believes in the eurocentrists racial hierarchy. Don't you Wally?
The dumb ass doesn't understand that the hierarchy is bogus and created primarily so eurocentrists could claim Ancient Egypt.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Gaul: Ummm no dumbass. Fulani people (and a few others) are from that area, which you are too stupid to know, and I didn't say who descended who. I actually know some well educated Wolof people who know more about their own history than you ever will.
The Ancient Egyptians also were not one monotonous group of African people.
I'm done with you so your usual thread poison will end here...aka the ES Vanilla Ice.
I thought the Fulani were from Senegal.
And the AE eventually mixed into one people (imagine thousands of years of white ethnies in the U.S. only with a smaller population)
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by The Gaul: Ummm no dumbass. Fulani people (and a few others) are from that area, which you are too stupid to know, and I didn't say who descended who. I actually know some well educated Wolof people who know more about their own history than you ever will.
The Ancient Egyptians also were not one monotonous group of African people.
I'm done with you so your usual thread poison will end here...aka the ES Vanilla Ice.
I thought the Fulani were from Senegal.
And the AE eventually mixed into one people (imagine thousands of years of white ethnies in the U.S. only with a smaller population)
Fulani are nomadic people that stretch all the way to Ethiopia, but with a different name there, and live all througout North/West Africa. They helped AE in it's founding. Hausa are similar. There are other ethnies in West Africa that mixed with them. Wolof and Fulani languages are related.
Also, Ancient Egypt was only part of the greater Nile Valley civilization, and both received and gave influence to different people of the Sahara and East Africa, who kept their distinctions, in it's founding. It coveres a very large area. Certain people just like to focus on the Delta. There was a small granite "Sphinx" found in Eritrea.
You often hear people from the horn say how much the culture and even phenotype of Sahelian/Saharan people resemble their own to this day. No matter how much unknowing, Euro book reading idiots say they are like "Arabs".
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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Fulani are nomadic people that stretch all the way to Ethiopia, but with a different name there
As far as I know, the only eastern African area where the Fulani appear, is Sudan. By what name do they go by in Ethiopia?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote: I've also read before that Wolof and Hausa were from elsewhere than West Africa originally.
Well, ultimately ancestry of west Africans comes from the more eastern areas, and possibly from southern, as there have been indications of modern humans actually originating in an area nearer to southern Africa than in say, the African Horn. However, as a group, they formed their identity and social evolution, and considerable biohistory as an ethnic group in western Africa.
quote: I just didn't and don't buy that Peul aren't West African.
Like the Wolof, the Fulani are mainly relegated to western Africa. The difference is that the Fulani are more stretched along western Africa, being nomadic pastoralists and all. Isolated situations of their appearance in eastern Africa, like in Sudan, has to do with this nomadic feature, but the Fulani community there originated from western Africa and even retain their "Atlantic" Niger-Congo phylum there.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote: I've also read before that Wolof and Hausa were from elsewhere than West Africa originally.
Well, ultimately ancestry of west Africans comes from the more eastern areas, and possibly from southern, as there have been indications of modern humans actually originating in an area nearer to southern Africa than in say, the African Horn. However, as a group, they formed their identity and social evolution, and considerable biohistory as an ethnic group in western Africa.
quote: I just didn't and don't buy that Peul aren't West African.
Like the Wolof, the Fulani are mainly relegated to western Africa. The difference is that the Fulani are more stretched along western Africa, being nomadic pastoralists and all. Isolated situations of their appearance in eastern Africa, like in Sudan, has to do with this nomadic feature, but the Fulani community there originated from western Africa and even retain their "Atlantic" Niger-Congo phylum there.
posted
Notice how Wally dodges and perries in order to hide his intra-Afrian racism. Wally why do you believe in Hamites and "---e -----s"?
Wally why would those people be the top 10 people brought to the Americas?
What is it that seperates them from other Africans in you race mythology world Wally?
Folks this intellectual thrashing that I am administering to Wally has once and for all exposed him for the lame brain he is.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
The Gaul wrote: ----------------------------- I'm done with you so your usual thread poison will end here...aka the ES Vanilla Ice. -----------------------------
Translation: My internal African racism has been exposed and I am helpless against Argyle's intellectual prowess. Now I'm running home with my tail tucked between my legs.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
argyle, you are getting extremely boring, no offence. You use to be cute now you are just making people yawn with your repetetive predicable useless posts.
Posts: 1554 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Translation: Argyle has -----d up my racial mythology using his high intellect, superior logic, and powerful common sense arguments. I have seen some posters agree with his facts and now I have no other recourse than to attempt a red herring distortion attempt.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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Fulani are nomadic people that stretch all the way to Ethiopia, but with a different name there
As far as I know, the only eastern African area where the Fulani appear, is Sudan. By what name do they go by in Ethiopia?
It was actually an Eritrean (or maybe an Ethio...don't remember )that said they call them "Nara" there (might just be similar to Fulbe), so KING might be right. But I know they stretch to the Sudan/Ethio border as Fulbe.
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)that said they call them "Nara" there (might just be similar to Fulbe), so KING might be right. But I know they stretch to the Sudan/Ethio border as Fulbe.
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