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Author Topic: Egyptians Were Black, Not White
Myra Wysinger
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Some believe that Anceint Egyptians were Black

"Its actually a rather old argument at this point, but there remains a concerted effort to prove that anceint Egyptians were black, not white. Interestingly, most modern Egyptologists I believe have ever asserted that anceint Egyptians were exactly white, though they also do not see most Egyptians as being black either". -- From Tour Egypt

Egyptians were Black, not white
The Philadelphia Tribune
Wednesday, November 8, 2006

By Conrad W. Worrill

Part of our repair in the reparations movement is to correct blatant white supremacy distortions of history, Case in point: Egypt belongs to Africa!

Up until recent years, there had been a scholarly debate among European intellectuals, joined by some Blacks, on what they referred to as the peopling of ancient Egypt. What this question really posed was, “Who were the ancient Egyptians?” Were they Black, white or mulatto, etc?

This issue has been at the core of European history or better yet European historiography (the science of how history is written) for more than two hundred years. This framework of European hegemony over the history of the world has had a devastating impact on African people and on the African mind.

It is in this context that we understand the intellectual devastation of the European conceptualization of the world order. We should understand this in relation to our movement for an African Centered Education and our Reparations Movement that are aimed at helping our people come out from beneath this European intellectual assault and educate and repair ourselves.

Let me use renowned African deep thinker and scholar, Jacob H. Carruthers, to help clarify this subject by revisiting a paper he wrote entitled, “Race of Ancient Egyptians.” This paper gives us the insights we need to understand this dilemma.

Carruthers observed that, “The doctrine of white supremacy was launched by philosophers like David Hume who asserted in 1749, ‘I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the whites.’ This position was expressed in a different context by Montesquieu about the same time.”

We are guided by Carruthers when he says, “In the Spirit of the Laws, Montesquieu asserted, ‘it is impossible for us to suppose these creatures to be men, because allowing them to be men, a suspicion would follow that we ourselves are not Christians.’ Montesquieu was justifying the enslavement of Africans which was one of the major reasons for inventing the doctrine of white supremacy.”

Upon further examination, Carruthers says, “Obviously the emerging doctrine could not gain credibility among those who were familiar with the traditional wisdom among Europeans that the ancient Africans of Egypt had achieved a very high level of civilization and had transmitted to the ancient Greeks many of the major ideas considered a part of Greek civilization.”

Carruthers says, “Several decades after the founding of the concept of white supremacy George Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel supplied the solution of this latter difficulty when at the beginning of the 19th century, he asserted that Africa was ‘not a historical part of the world.’”

Finally, Carruthers quotes Hegel to demonstrate the ultimate in European intellectual arrogance, Hegel stated, “Historical movement in it, that is in its northern part, belongs to the Asiatic or European world… Egypt will be considered in reference to its western phase, but it does not belong to the African spirit.” Through this conceptualization Carruthers reveals, “Thus, Hegel took Egypt out of African and Africans out of Egypt. He also removed Africans from history.”

As an outgrowth of this kind of thinking by European scholars, the field of Egyptology began to emerge. Egyptology as a field of study is the creation of the European mentality, which seeks to gather evidence (artifacts and antiquities) that supports the idea of the European origin of civilization. Egyptologist have literally attempted to remove Egypt from the geographical confines of Africa and re-deposited it within the geographical domain of Asia, in an area that is even now referred to as the “ Middle East.”

The removal of Egypt from Africa serves a twofold purpose. First, it leads to the obvious idea that Egypt is not a part of Africa therefore its population could not have been Black. Secondly, it serves the purpose of implying that civilization did not begin with the Black race.

Fortunately, we have always had Black scholars among us who did not get trapped in the European conception of the world. It started with men like Hosea Easton, Henry Highland Garnett, and Martin R. Delany who “took the biblical myth of Ham and used it to establish Blacks as the authors of the great Nile Valley civilizations.”

Also, “They… used ancient European works such as Herodotus, Diodorus, and whatever modern works they could find. This tradition has been an honorable endeavor and has taught us much.” The old scrappers, according to Carruthers, “are still among us slugging it our as per our beloved Professor John G. Jackson.” Through the works of Senegalese scholar, Cheikh Anta Diop, Theophile Obenga, Yosef ben Jochannan, Chancellor Williams and others, the origin of the ancient Egyptians should never, ever be a question for African people. This question has been resolved. We should be clear that ancient Egypt or Kemet (as the people who lived in this area called it. Kemet means the city or community of the Blacks) and the ancient Egyptians, or more properly, the Kemetic people were Black.

Diop points out that Herodotus “after relating his eyewitness account informing us that the Egyptians were Blacks, then demonstrated, with rare honesty (for a Greek), that Greece borrowed from Egypt all elements of her civilization even the cult of gods, and that Egypt was the cradle of civilization.”

Our scholars, deep thinkers, and researchers should never again raise the question of who were the ancient Egyptians. This question has been resolved. Clearly the people of ancient Egypt/Kemet, were Black people!

Dr. Conrad W. Worrill is the National Chairman of the National Black United Front (NBUF) E-mail: nbufchic@allways.net

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Supercar
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Indeed, an almost beaten to death topic, spurred every now and then by holdouts of the virtually scholarly and scientifically discredited 19th century reactionary political constructs of the Nile valley. What some fail to understand, or willfully fail to do so, is that "Kemet", as a target of psychological warfare, is part and parcel of European imperialism. That is what this whole issue of mystifying Kemet was all about; the old discredited arguments don't have a leg to stand on, and the holdouts of these old political ideologies on the subject know this. They are just not willing to openly concede to this fact, but perhaps what is left for them to do, is to be hopeful of preying on the unsuspecting learners of the subject.
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Djehuti
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But again, I say that today's Western scholarship is quite different. We have many non-biased, non-racist, white scholars who have accepted the irrefutable FACT that Egypt was African and its peoples were black Africans period.

Of course there those who still incessantly and desperately try to cling on to the debunked racist views.

The par examplar of this attitude (psychosis) would be the deliberate disregard of the authentic bust of King Tut for a more favorable 'reconstruction':

 -

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^LOL And even after the whitewash, the reconstruction looks like what some would call a "mulatto"!

Of course there are those that go with far more covert tactics like not mentioning the black identity of the Egyptians at all, yet emphasize it ad-nasium when discussing 'Nubia'. [Wink]

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Djehuti
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Oh, and I almost forgot.-- There are the folks would just just'settle' for a "mixed-race" Egypt. LMAO [Big Grin]
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salah
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you guys here are just fighting against trolls that say egypt was mixed when there are some other websites where they say egypt was fully cocusian and that upper egyptians look dark because of intermariang with nubians!!!
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rasol
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^ The point of the article is that few if any scholars try to say that Ancient Egypt was white.

It's too flagrant a lie.

So they instead relay on subtler forms of misinformation and propaganda - such as reconstruction of king tut which gives him much lighter skin that his own most realistic portraiture shows, in order to discourage him from being seen as the Black man he was.

White washing is necessarily a subtle business.

In the Hollywood movie, the Mummy, even the Beja 'so called nubians' are portrayed by whites.

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tk101
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Hello all,

My name is Josh, I'm 18 year old high school Honors graduate and a soon to be international student in australia in spring 07.
I love science, engineering, and history.

I have been looking at these forums for the past few weeks, and i must say that i like what i see. I don't have that much knowledge about africa or its history but i intend to learn, even if is not what i expected. quite a few people like Rasol, Djehuti, and others i forgot to mention are quite knowledgable about this topic. I believe i can learn alot from them and others in this forum. You will find that i love knowledge. although i must admit that i might not beable to bring much to the table but i will try to make creditable arguements, sometimes i will post my opinions. I look forward to further chat with Rasol, Djehuti and others in the up coming months.

in regards to this topic,


in the Usa, even if you have genetic admixture of euros ( hence bring brown) one is consider black. not sure how the rest of the world considers it. i think the some whites use this genetic admixture thing to classify them as caucasiods and therefore making them something they are not.
then agian if you think about it, if a black and white person has a kid. that kid is neither black nor white but a mix ( brown). the only way AE's could be classified as mix if they this trend multiplied throughout the region and created a mixed population greater than 51% of the main population.

the idea to classify the egyptians as white or mix is like saying...becuase i have 30% indian and 70% asian ancestry, i am indian. ( i'm not really indian). the whole concept it idiotic.

It almost seems that becuase some scientist found a hand full of mummies that resemble or had "caucasion" features that the entire civilization is caucasion. but this discredits the true diversity of africa. Africans are the most diverse group of people on earth, the People have a wide range of phenotypes.

why is it that some people can't accept the fact that the egyptians were black. look at the kings throughout the dynasties. They had mainly black african features. I think the reason why somepeople can't accept it is becuase they can't admit the idea that the egyptian(blacks) civilization was the catalyse to western civilization and the idea that the greatest civilization on earth was brought on by black africans. Its quite possible that AE's had genetic admixture of west asians and med's as the centuries progressed. example compare the US to egypt. The US was founded by europeans, then over time floods of immigrants ( and slaves) came in. Now at this rate, In 2050 america will be mostly a non-white populations...i guess the same happen to Egypt. a possible proof of this would be to compare AE to modern egypt. The first settlers and the people of the old kingdom were black african, then arabs and southern euros came in and "lighten" the populations. It is also likely that the people in the nile valley lighten ( probably slightly) as the migrated north. blacks dont have to be mixed to be light skinned.
if i am wrong please correct me..

this is just a thought...a unique rant if you will...

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Djehuti
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^Welcome to the forum, tk101! We are always happy to have new posters, especially if they are not trolls. [Big Grin]

What you said was indeed correct. The problem is there are many people who argue purely for 'political' reasons which have been spurred on by deeply seated social-emotional issues. Non of which have anything to do with the FACTS.

You have some Eurocentrics who say that ancient Egyptians were 'kacazians' period, who eventually mixed with blacks and others (which ultimately brought about their downfall) and resulted in Modern Egypt's population.

You have the mesocentrics or "mixocentrics" who have this view that they think will satisfy all groups to say that Egyptians were always mixed since ancient times, and that there was never a significant change genetically or phenotypically, despite the various migrations in late to post-dynastic times.

And finally you have some Afrocentrics who say ancient Egyptians were black, but were displaced by invasions either by being killed off or just fleeing Egypt!

All 3 are not only inaccurate but just plain WRONG!

The true answer is that Ancient Egyptians were black Africans in ancient times but gradually became mixed with foreign invasions and immigrations. That's it! It's simple as that, however you can see how such implications 'conflict' with the interests of the previous 3 groups I mentioned-- It ruins the white supremacist fantasies of the Eurocentrics. It ruins the notions of Mixocentrics that blacks can achieve civilization and advancement on their own without 'mixing' with peoples, and it also might upset modern Egyptians who are denial that not only are they mixed but some of their ancestry is not native to the land they live in now. And finally it ruins the notions of those Afrocentrics who want to the Egyptians to be racially 'pure' even after the downfall of their civilization.

But there is no way around it. People have to learn how to get over their prejudices and they can begin by ending their ignorance!

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tk101
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Thanks Djehuti,

I agree. I dont like to judge people, but how come they can't see whats right in their face. Perhaps it is true, man is ignorant by nature. In reality no "race" is beter than the other. there are good, intelligent and kind of people of every ethnic group. One way for people to over come the prejudices is to accept into their minds, other people's views, other's ideas, etc. I think to discredit one idea and hold another higher is the source of this problem and is ignorant by nature. I hope this makes sense.
In a reality the ethnic background of the kemet isn't that important.. but what is important is the know that they are the reason western civilization started, in the basis of thats where most of western civilization's ideaology orginated, from derivate forms of the kemet's society, ideology etc. hence the "copying" of the kemet by the ancient greeks.

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tk101
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yet it bothers me to see something being twisted in lies and propaganda....
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by tk101:

Thanks Djehuti,

I agree. I dont like to judge people, but how come they can't see whats right in their face. Perhaps it is true, man is ignorant by nature. In reality no "race" is beter than the other. there are good, intelligent and kind of people of every ethnic group. One way for people to over come the prejudices is to accept into their minds, other people's views, other's ideas, etc. I think to discredit one idea and hold another higher is the source of this problem and is ignorant by nature. I hope this makes sense.

It's natural to associate peoples of a certain group, but I think that's where many of the problems of 'race' come in. People no longer identity with the individual. There is actually more genetic diversity between individuals than between populations. Which is why whether good views or negative views, views pertaining to certain groups should stop unless it has something to do directly with the the specific group like culture.

You yourself seem to have a pessimistic view about the greater group of humankind in general when many, probably most humans do not even have that mindset.

quote:
In a reality the ethnic background of the kemet isn't that important.. but what is important is the know that they are the reason western civilization started, in the basis of thats where most of western civilization's ideaology orginated, from derivate forms of the kemet's society, ideology etc. hence the "copying" of the kemet by the ancient greeks.
Of course Egypt had influence on ancient Greece, but I would be careful to go so far as to say Greek civilization "copied" off of Egypt. Again, we know there was Egyptian influence but we don't know for sure what the extent was. We do know it wasn't as great as that of West Asia, particularly Anatolia where most Greek ancestors come from. That's why I would be careful when reading such works from Martin Bernal's Black Athena.

quote:
yet it bothers me to see something being twisted in lies and propaganda....
It bothers me too, but as I said there are various reasons for such propaganda and the solution is to eradicate those reasons.
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tk101
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I see what you mean by my previous idea of the greeks "copying" the kemet, i made an exaggeration in that case. I should have stresed that SOME greek ideology are derivatives of antediluvian Kemet.

I would agree with you on the fact that i do see the cup being half empty. thats just my conclusion of observing humans. I could be wrong about man being ignorant by nature, but every day when i walk around (mainly people i have met and became friends with) i see people proving me right (although some prove me wrong.) altough i disagree with you to the extent that i think man as a whole could prosper and do better if they would unite and not divide. To me to classify and demonize people helps to give people a greater chance at maximizing the differences amoungst us. If we see how small the difference is between people, many of the problems we have the world wouldn't exist.

do you agree that we should unite?

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Israel
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I like your energy tk101. Welcome to the forum. Salaam.
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tk101
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thanks israel
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darkness
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Hi everybody
I am new in this forum and i am interested in anciant egyptian history and all what I am now reading is very interesting
In fact i am a native born cameroonian
Avout egyptian i always thought that anciant egyptians were not white just as i used to see it in filmm documentary and all that stuff and now i really believe that those people were black, unfortunetly there are many peaople event in africa believe that anciant egyptians were white, they believe what's been show in tv... It's almost sad because sometimes I argu with people who believe that black(african because u also see black indies) people have never build anything intersting, colonialism and slavery has made them believe that they are and have always been some kind of UNDERMAN
It is true that on documentary they always show egyptians importants leaders as black while blacks are just making the hards work.

Now i remember have seen the tv show Stargate and there they use to represent anciants egyptians even those who have a high place in the society and they were black, that was pretty good.

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Djehuti
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^Yes, but they were also portrayed as aliens and in the unfortunate movie that was 'Queen of the Damned' an Egyptian queen was portrayed as a black but a vampire!

Either way, these images come from science-fiction and fantasy. What we discuss on this forum is real life FACTS.

Welcome aboard Darkness! [Smile]

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Nuary32
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quote:
Originally posted by darkness:
Hi everybody
I am new in this forum and i am interested in anciant egyptian history and all what I am now reading is very interesting
In fact i am a native born cameroonian
Avout egyptian i always thought that anciant egyptians were not white just as i used to see it in filmm documentary and all that stuff and now i really believe that those people were black, unfortunetly there are many peaople event in africa believe that anciant egyptians were white, they believe what's been show in tv... It's almost sad because sometimes I argu with people who believe that black(african because u also see black indies) people have never build anything intersting, colonialism and slavery has made them believe that they are and have always been some kind of UNDERMAN
It is true that on documentary they always show egyptians importants leaders as black while blacks are just making the hards work.

Now i remember have seen the tv show Stargate and there they use to represent anciants egyptians even those who have a high place in the society and they were black, that was pretty good.

Welcome to the forum! To finalize your initiation, change your avatar! [Big Grin]
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Horus_Den_1
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welcome darkness

discuss ask questions

enjoy!

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tk101
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quote:
Originally posted by darkness:
Hi everybody
I am new in this forum and i am interested in anciant egyptian history and all what I am now reading is very interesting
In fact i am a native born cameroonian
Avout egyptian i always thought that anciant egyptians were not white just as i used to see it in filmm documentary and all that stuff and now i really believe that those people were black, unfortunetly there are many peaople event in africa believe that anciant egyptians were white, they believe what's been show in tv... It's almost sad because sometimes I argu with people who believe that black(african because u also see black indies) people have never build anything intersting, colonialism and slavery has made them believe that they are and have always been some kind of UNDERMAN
It is true that on documentary they always show egyptians importants leaders as black while blacks are just making the hards work.

Now i remember have seen the tv show Stargate and there they use to represent anciants egyptians even those who have a high place in the society and they were black, that was pretty good.

you watch stargate? i watch it often myself....
its good that you dont view the kemet that way...simply becuase things aren't what they always seem to be...

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darkness
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quote:
Originally posted by tk101:
[QUOTE]you watch stargate? i watch it often myself....
its good that you dont view the kemet that way...simply becuase things aren't what they always seem to be...

Yes i did but and reading here about kemet makes me remember of amenophis tilk and all those far egyptians whose were represented as black people...
I couldn't believe that people of kemet were whites just because the climate conditions did not make it possible. It is just like saying that zulu of south afrika were also whites... that does'nt have any sense to me

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darkness
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i think i made a mistake what i red here makes me remember of APOPHIS, not amenophis
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Djehuti
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^
quote:
But again I say:
^Yes, but they were also portrayed as aliens and in the unfortunate movie that was 'Queen of the Damned' an Egyptian queen was portrayed as a black but a vampire!

Either way, these images come from science-fiction and fantasy. What we discuss on this forum is real life FACTS.


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darkness
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I know i was just answering to the preview post..
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tk101
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Darkness, In a way the current hold of the west on the world is similar to the G'ould's hold on the galaxy in Stargate...... almost like the euros are the g'ould...think about it like the fictional race, they have taken technologies from other civilizations and how they control/ controlled the world...just a thought
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blackmanthinking
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bump
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