Race: the history of an idea in America By Thomas F. Gossett 1964
He says on pg4:
"When the lighter ancient Egyptians were in power they called the darker group "the evil race of Ish" while when the darker ancient Egyptians were in power they called the lighter group the "the pale, degraded race of Arvad"
Is this correct?
Arvad is an island city off the coast of Syria some 30 miles North of Tripolis,
What does "ish" refer to? The above quote seems suspect to me.
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Quote: "When the lighter ancient Egyptians were in power they called the darker group "the evil race of Ish" while when the darker ancient Egyptians were in power they called the lighter group the "the pale, degraded race of Arvad"
Question: Quote Who?
From When?
From what source?
Obviously Thomas F. Gossett made it up. But this same nonsense quote is all over the place, without anyone attempting to source it. No wonder though, it implies a non-homogeneous Black Egypt. And of course, the Albinos can use that to support their bogus claims of participation in ancient Egypt.
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: Race: The History of an Idea in America (Race and American Culture)
Page 4
"Red-skinned" or light-skinned Kushite mercenaries
Light-skinned and dark-skinned Negroes of Egypt and Kush; so what's new?
This appears to indicate that he was talking about the non Egyptians who ruled Egypt--not the Egyptians themselves.
Rmt Tjhnw Nhsyw "Aamw
The Egyptians often painted monuments painting themselves the same color as the Kushites. Below we have the tomb relief of Rameses III, there are four depictions from left to right Rmt: Egyptian, Nhsyw: Kushite, Tjhnw: Libyan , and "Aamw: Syro-Palestinians. If you look carefully you will notice that the Egyptian and Kushite both have the same color and general physical features.
The light-skin people may have been a reference to the Aamw or Syro-Palestinians.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: Race: The History of an Idea in America (Race and American Culture)
Page 4
This appears to indicate that he was talking about the non Egyptians who ruled Egypt--not the Egyptians themselves.
.
I absolutely agree with you on this portion of the text; doesn't Arvad refer to Persia?Posts: 3344 | From: Berkeley | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Wally: Race: The History of an Idea in America (Race and American Culture)
Page 4
This appears to indicate that he was talking about the non Egyptians who ruled Egypt--not the Egyptians themselves.
.
I absolutely agree with you on this portion of the text; doesn't Arvad refer to Persia?
Yes. In the Bible Arvad referred to Persia. It also referred to a fort in Syria. This would make the Aamu representative of the light skin people.
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^My point was that there is no such text or inscription. It is totally made-up.
Clyde - that painting is totally made-up also.
Arvad is a Syrian Island, originally founded by Phoenicians circa 2,000 B.C. In the Bible it is correctly grouped with Canaanites/Phoenicians.
Genesis 10 The Table of Nations
The Hamites
6 The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put and Canaan.
15 Canaan was the father of Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites, 16 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 17 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 18 Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites.
Later the Canaanite clans scattered 19 and the borders of Canaan reached from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, as far as Lasha.
Quote: Ezekiel 27:8 (New International Version) 8 Men of Sidon and Arvad were your oarsmen; your skilled men, Tyre, were aboard as your sailors.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^My point was that there is no such text or inscription. It is totally made-up.
Clyde - that painting is totally made-up also.
Arvad is a Syrian Island, originally founded by Phoenicians circa 2,000 B.C. In the Bible it is correctly grouped with Canaanites/Phoenicians.
Genesis 10 The Table of Nations
The Hamites
6 The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put and Canaan.
15 Canaan was the father of Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites, 16 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 17 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 18 Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites.
Later the Canaanite clans scattered 19 and the borders of Canaan reached from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, as far as Lasha.
Quote: Ezekiel 27:8 (New International Version) 8 Men of Sidon and Arvad were your oarsmen; your skilled men, Tyre, were aboard as your sailors.
You are probably right it was made up. But it does seem to relate to a group of people attempting to note the possible existence of racial differences in ancient Egypt.
In Hebrew the word ish means 'man'. It was also the name of a Sumerian city. This is interesting because the Sumerians referred to the kings as the 'Kings of Kish/Kush'. And as we know the Kushites were recognized as 'black men'.
As a result, 'Ish', probably referred to the Egyptian name for man s(a), which corresponds to Mbochi si and Amharic saw. Given this reality the term 'ish', may have referred to the Egyptians who were dark skinned, and non-Egyptians who were light skin.
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The above as far as "race" is baloney. Notice the bogus "lioness" is reduced to scraping material from this obsolete 1964 book with its obsolete "hAMITIC" race model.
Nubians were ethnically the closest people to the Egyptians. Conflict between the two were typical clashes between kingdoms without the simplistic "racial" models drawn by some 20th century writers.
Quote 1: "The ancient Egyptians referred to a region, located south of the third cataract the Nile River, in which Nubians dwelt as Kush.. Within such context, this phrase is not a racial slur. Throughout the history of ancient Egypt there were numerous, well documented instances that celebrate Nubian-Egyptian marriages. A study of these documents, particularly those dated to both the Egyptian New Kingdom (after 1550 B.C.E.) and to Dynasty XXV and early Dynasty XXVI (about 720-640 BCE), reveals that neither spouse nor any of the children of such unions suffered discrimination at the hands of the ancient Egyptians. Indeed such marriages were never an obstacle to social, economic, or political status, provided the individuals concerned conformed to generally accepted Egyptian social standards. Furthermore, at times, certain Nubian practices, such as tattooing for women, and the unisex fashion of wearing earrings, were wholeheartedly embraced by the ancient Egyptians." (Bianchi, 2004: p. 4)
'It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record.. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material; culture.. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750-655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character.. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred. (Bianchi, 2004, p. 99-100)
- Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group
One of Egypt's greatest dynasties, the 12th, originated from dark-skinned Nubian stock, according to conservative Egyptologist F. Yurco (1989). The 12th Dynasty ruled approximately 1000 years BEFORE the well known "black" 25th Dynasty. Quote 2:
"the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region.4 As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
[quote]
"Among the foreigners, the Nubians were closest ethnically to the Egyptians. In the late predynastic period (c. 3700-3150 B.C.E.), the Nubians shared the same culture as the Egyptians and even evolved the same pharaonic political structure." - (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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zarahan - Quite true, but I think that the larger point needs to be made; that is that when the ancients implied differences, they were talking about "Ethnic" differences NOT "Racial" differences. Egypt was a "Cosmopolitan" society with citizens from all over the ancient world, who married each other, and made babies with each other. These ethnically different people, often held high positions in Egyptian government. Whites would come later in the 20th dynasty.
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The footnote to the Thomas F. Gossett Race: the history of an idea in America is
3. Hutton Webster, Ancient Civilization (1931), p 16: Wally Gerald Massey, A Book of the Beginnings (1881) I, 454
Massey:
On the Egyptian monuments the dark people are commonly called "the evil race of Kush", but when the AEthiopian element dominates, the dark people retort by calling the light complexions the pale degraded race of Arvad. And in the ancient poem called "Gwad Lludd y Mawr" the destination of the dark race for the light breaks out in a similar manner.
Is seems like Either Gossett or Hutton Webster changed the word Kush to Ish.
I don't have access to the Hutton Webster book to see who made the change. The word "race" is used here: "the evil race of Kush" as opposed to just the evil Kush
I suspect that the the "word" race has been inserted by Massey
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^Yes we can; When Albinos acknowledge their true nature and their true place - and STOP LYING!.
Above; the dead king is being greeted by a pale figure, but the pale figure is not a man, he is Osiris, Dead god and god of the dead, he is regarded as the dead king that watches over the nether world and is rejuvenated in his son Horus. He is depicted as White, because that is the color of death.
In the first frame, the dead king is greeted by Ophois, the Jackal-god whose name means “He who opens the roads” who went ahead of processions to clear the way for them, so that those following him would not encounter any hostile force.
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