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Author Topic: Your Defintion of Modern Egyptian
multisphinx
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Latley on this forum i have been reading some rediculous speculation on what modern egyptian are? I would just like too know how everybody on this forum sees modern egyptians so plz post what u think.

Dont u think these ppl are no different from the egyptians u see?




And by the way these ppl will never consider themselves white; they consider themselves black.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 20 June 2005).]


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ausar
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Modern Egyptians as a people are a mixture of Black African,Mediterranean European[mostly Greek]Asiatic Arab[mostly Syrian Arabs],Levantine people,and Turkish people. You can also add little dashes of admixture from people like Armenians and Italians who often intermarry with Egyptians. However, the purest people in Egypt are the Saidi and fellahin[who might have some admixture pre-Arab invasion],but not much after the following.


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kenndo
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alot of modern egyptain look like latinos from the west indies,some modern egyptians are white and some are black.i read in another thread that kobe's wife was white.she is not if you look at her carefully and she said she was latina and she would fit into modern egyptain culture.
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Supercar
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What modern Egyptian is, is this: it is a nation that incorporated a large number of foreign migrants throughout history, via conquest, trade, and free-will migration (for opportunities). As such, modern Egyptian populations are the result of altered indigenous populations. With a rich history, even those, who may exclusively trace their origins back to Eurasia, but now call themselves Egyptians, want to claim the heritage. Fact though, is that, if one chooses to claim this indigenous culture, one would have to value their indigenous lineages. Ancient Egyptian culture flowed from south to north, not the other way around. This is also how culture flowed in the mediterranean region, from south to north [see Europe]. I know this comes as a disappointment to those, who want to be affiliated with 'Caucasians', and hence want to promote propaganda of 'cultural diffusion'... but overwhelming evidence is on the side of indigenous Africans taking credit for this indigenous culture.
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multisphinx
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quote:
Originally posted by kenndo:
alot of modern egyptain look like latinos from the west indies,some modern egyptians are white and some are black.i read in another thread that kobe's wife was white.she is not if you look at her carefully and she said she was latina and she would fit into modern egyptain culture.

The ppl posted above are not latinoes. They are all half black half white. Non of them even speak spanish or from a latin country.


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multisphinx
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quote:
Originally posted by Super car:
What modern Egyptian is, is this: it is a nation that incorporated a large number of foreign migrants throughout history, via conquest, trade, and free-will migration (for opportunities). As such, modern Egyptian populations are the result of altered indigenous populations. With a rich history, even those, who may exclusively trace their origins back to Eurasia, but now call themselves Egyptians, want to claim the heritage. Fact though, is that, if one chooses to claim this indigenous culture, one would have to value their indigenous lineages. Ancient Egyptian culture flowed from south to north, not the other way around. This is also how culture flowed in the mediterranean region, from south to north [see Europe]. I know this comes as a disappointment to those, who want to be affiliated with 'Caucasians', and hence want to promote propaganda of 'cultural diffusion'... but overwhelming evidence is on the side of indigenous Africans taking credit for this indigenous culture.

True, some are like that, but your defintion says as if thier are no Africans in in egypt at all. The pics shown above are to show how simular they are to delta egyptians. Delta egyptians look no different from the ppl posted above.

If foriegners did move in they did mix, i am not saying all though. The elite class always kept thier own identity and married to keep thier light skin. But for others they mixed to form mulautto ppl.


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Supercar
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quote:
Originally posted by multisphinx:
but your defintion says as if thier are no Africans in in egypt at all.

I think there was a communication gap somewhere along the way. This is what I said:

quote:

What modern Egyptian is, is this: it is a nation that incorporated a large number of foreign migrants throughout history, via conquest, trade, and free-will migration (for opportunities). As such, modern Egyptian populations are the result of altered indigenous populations.

Do you not agree with that?


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multisphinx
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quote:
Originally posted by Super car:
I think there was a communication gap somewhere along the way. This is what I said:

[QUOTE]
What modern Egyptian is, is this: it is a nation that incorporated a large number of foreign migrants throughout history, via conquest, trade, and free-will migration (for opportunities). As such, [b]modern Egyptian populations are the result of altered indigenous populations.


Do you not agree with that?[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes thier was and i aplogize.


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Supercar
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Multisphinx, to me, Egypt is still African, just as its predecessor [Kemet] was. It is still politically involved with other African nations via the African Union, and there are groups in the country, that still value their original identity. It shares the Nile with several African nations, with the waters flowing from Lake Victoria [deep in Africa], and then making its way to the Lower Nile Valley. All this talk of heterogeneity in Egypt, like its the only country on the planet that is one, underlies the fact that it is African, and at that, known for its rich history. It is those, who don't value their distinct and indigenous identity, that have a problem with Egypt being part of Africa. As to the question of whether such folks view themselves as Africans or not, that is their choice to make. What will not be tolerated, however, is their efforts to steal or distort history from the land they don't identify with!
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AMR1
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Egypt for the last 10000 years is the same Egypt, today and the past. Its people, civilization and culture influenced by the events of Mesoptamians and ethnicity by the movement of Mesoptamians into the Nile Valley from the beginning of history until the Mohamad Ali Dynasty(1820-1953).


The further you go down the Nile, that influence of Mesoptamia, weakens. Anything else is wishful dreams of Afro Centric and is not substaniated with any historical facts, but just bullying one time and nagging another time about racism and what the whites did to them by slavery to get their theory accepted.


Now Egyptians, the only decendants of teh phoroahs, mixed with others like the phoroahs themselves were also mixed. Why the phoroahs were darker than todays Egypt, Were they?, most of the upper Egyptians are brown today and in the past and lower Ancient Egyptians were white as todays lower Egyptians, nothing has changed.

Egypt is the reason why Nubia and abbyssinia came into existence as civilizations, not backward primitives like the rest of Africa.

Regards


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multisphinx
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quote:
Originally posted by AMR1:
Egypt for the last 10000 years is the same Egypt, today and the past. Its people, civilization and culture influenced by the events of Mesoptamians and ethnicity by the movement of Mesoptamians into the Nile Valley from the beginning of history until the Mohamad Ali Dynasty(1820-1953).


The further you go down the Nile, that influence of Mesoptamia, weakens. Anything else is wishful dreams of Afro Centric and is not substaniated with any historical facts, but just bullying one time and nagging another time about racism and what the whites did to them by slavery to get their theory accepted.


Now Egyptians, the only decendants of teh phoroahs, mixed with others like the phoroahs themselves were also mixed. Why the phoroahs were darker than todays Egypt, Were they?, most of the upper Egyptians are brown today and in the past and lower Ancient Egyptians were white as todays lower Egyptians, nothing has changed.

Egypt is the reason why Nubia and abbyssinia came into existence as civilizations, not backward primitives like the rest of Africa.

Regards



No what u are saying is unrealistic. How can the todays population be simular? When there have been migrations and invasions in egypt. Now my thread is not about the racial background of AE, its about the modern Egyptian population.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 19 June 2005).]


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AMR1
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quote:
Originally posted by multisphinx:

No what u are saying is unrealistic. How can the todays population be simular? When there have been migrations and invasions in egypt. Now my thread is not about the racial background of AE, its about the modern Egyptian population.


[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 19 June 2005).]


\

They are both one and the same, Modern Egyptians are mixed like Past Egyptians were also mixed.

Before the unmixing of races in Egypt, there was no Past Egyptians of the phoroahs.

[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 19 June 2005).]


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Jizan
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quote:
Originally posted by AMR1:
They are both one and the same, Modern Egyptians are mixed like Past Egyptians were also mixed[/B]

Agree !!!!!1


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neo*geo
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There are many modern Egyptians who could pass for black Americans in the US and vice versa

Sadat

Black American Congressman John Conyers

Mona Elthaway

Hoda Kotb


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multisphinx
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quote:
Originally posted by AMR1:

They are both one and the same, Modern Egyptians are mixed like Past Egyptians were also mixed.

Before the unmixing of races in Egypt, there was no Past Egyptians of the phoroahs.

[This message has been edited by AMR1 (edited 19 June 2005).]



U are not awnsering my question and you are switching the topic of thread.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 19 June 2005).]


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Djehuti
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quote:
Rasol said: This is why I have difficulty respecting/taking seriously Amr1.

* He makes baseless and false statements.

* The statements are corrected with facts substantiated by reputable sources.

* No specifics are ever produced in contradiction of stated facts.

* Several days go by....

* Then the same false statement is repeated.

Only people who disrespect themselves argue by playing dumb and repeating false remarks.

It's simple, Amr, either you can refute the stated facts, or you can't.



Rasol's prediction has come true!! Our poor, bewildered, mixed-up, friend AMR is back saying the same crazy nonsense!

quote:
Amnesiac AMR says: Egypt for the last 10000 years is the same Egypt, today and the past. Its people, civilization and culture influenced by the events of Mesoptamians and ethnicity by the movement of Mesoptamians into the Nile Valley from the beginning of history until the Mohamad Ali Dynasty(1820-1953).

AMR, I am so tired of repeating my corrections to those same silly, baseless, claims you made before, and a time before that! So I will just ask, what proof do you have to say that the Egyptian population has remained the same for 10,000 years with no change, or that 10,000 years ago, Mesopotamians migrated into the Nile Valley??!!
quote:
Amnesiac states: The further you go down the Nile, that influence of Mesoptamia, weakens. Anything else is wishful dreams of Afro Centric and is not substaniated with any historical facts, but just bullying one time and nagging another time about racism and what the whites did to them by slavery to get their theory accepted.

Again, where is the proof?! YOU are the one who's claims are "wishful dreams" unsubstatiated by facts, fool!! Egyptian civilization originated SOUTH in the Valley, not north in the Delta! Ausar, I, and everyone else has explained this to you many times before, yet everytime you come back you make the same ridiculous claims! You seem to be suffering from somekind of memory loss! Might I suggest the next time we present our information to you, you copy it and save it somewhere in your computer!! Also, I know plenty of African Americans and they've got plenty other problems to worry about than "slavery" and the "white man"! Since when did anyone in this forum complain about those things anyway??! Tell us who! Also, you must realize that racist white scholars of the 18th century did hinder the learning of ancient Egyptian culture because of their prejudices! Are you saying this is false?
quote:
mixed-up AMR says: Now Egyptians, the only decendants of teh phoroahs, mixed with others like the phoroahs themselves were also mixed. Why the phoroahs were darker than todays Egypt, Were they?, most of the upper Egyptians are brown today and in the past and lower Ancient Egyptians were white as todays lower Egyptians, nothing has changed.

Yes, mix, mix, mix! Mixing makes the world go 'round! Doesn't it AMR?
quote:
Idiot AMR says: Egypt is the reason why Nubia and abbyssinia came into existence as civilizations, not backward primitives like the rest of Africa.

Oh my God!! How many times do we have to repeat that civilization in both Nubia and Abyssinia developed independently?!!! In fact, we have shown you evidence countless times that indicate Nubia is older than Egypt!!

You know, I have always wondered about you AMR. Why the silly assertions and your emphasis on "mixed-race" people??! Then I finally realized it when you revealed your thoughts in the Sudan & the Arab League thread!

quote:
Arabized AMR says: I am from the North and I call for Seperation of the Arabized North Sudan from South Sudan.

We would love that they the southerners to separate. Because they either accept arabization, or we don't want to be one country with them.



Now we see why you're so obsessed about wanting the Egyptians to be "mixed-race" people! You are so proud about your Arab/Asiatic heritage, that you want Asiatic heritage to be a part of Northeast Africa's ancient history, even "10,000" years ago!!!

It is why you have the ludicrous notion that

quote:
They are both one and the same, Modern Egyptians are mixed like Past Egyptians were also mixed.

Before the unmixing of races in Egypt, there was no Past Egyptians of the phoroahs.



Why you have the mentality that only mixed Africans can acheive civilization!!

AMR, you poor deluded, self-hating, jackal! You sound more deranged than the crazy-ass Janjaweed, who slaughter their African breathren!!!
REGARDS!!!!

and Ratjizz says to messed-up AMR's nonsense:

quote:
Agree !!!!!1

Of course you do jizz, you are just as loony as AMR!!

[This message has been edited by Djehuti (edited 19 June 2005).]


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Djehuti
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Djehuti
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Glider
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OLD THREAD -- NEW QUESTION

Does Hoda Kotb consider herself an Egyptian Arab or Something Else?

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oadsnd_mf
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Glider wrote:

quote:
Does Hoda Kotb consider herself an Egyptian Arab or Something Else?
How in the world are we suppose to know? Why don't you contact her yourself and ask?

When I saw her I thought she was African American. Surprise, Surprise an Egyptian and an African American looking alike. That happens alot with Africa and its people with regards to African Americans. Because of the cultural, historical, and biological bonds they share together. And its undeniable.

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Djehuti
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As for the topic, I consider a modern Egyptian anyone in modern times who is born in Egyptian regardless of color or background whether they are of Arab descent or not or even if East Asian descent.

As for Glider, what is this obession with Hoda Kotb??

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Beja-Tiffa
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Brother Amr i agree with a few things u are saying but Nubia is older than Egypt but Modern Day Egyptians are so mixed and there are also many different tribes for instance the Beja are Egyptians Saidi Fellahin and all the people of the south are all in One Egyptians. To claim the Ancient Egypt gave birth to Nubia and Abyssinian civilization is a Wrong Statement with No Evidence to back it up. Egypt of Today is African Arab Berber Cushitic Semitic all in One.
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Whatbox
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quote:
Originally posted by AMR1:
Egypt for the last 10000 years is the same Egypt, today and the past.

Dude are you sure about that?

quote:
The population of ancient Egypt varied greatly during its history. Some scholars estimate that only a few hundred thousand people lived in Egypt during the Predynastic period (about 5000-3000 bc). Others believe, based on archaeological evidence and reevaluations of how many people the floodplains could support at the time, that the area had a much higher population. In any case, the population had probably risen to close to 2 million during the Old Kingdom (about 2575-2134 bc). It increased during the Middle Kingdom (about 2040-1640 bc), and by the New Kingdom (about 1550-1070 bc) the population had grown to between 3 and 4 million. This figure almost doubled under Hellenistic rule (332-30 bc), with perhaps as many as 7 million people inhabiting the country at the time it was annexed to the Roman Empire.
2 million to 7 million? But that's not all ..

quote:
The most obvious feature of Egypt's population problem is the continued increase in the population growth rate. Our numbers have doubled from 2.5 million in 1800 to 5 million in 1850, then to 10 million in 1900, and again to 20 million in 1947. This means that the Egyptian population has doubled once every fifty years over one and half centuries (1800-1950). It took a mere 30 years for the number to double the fourth time around: from 20 million in 1950 to 40 million in 1978. The increase resumed again until the population reached nearly sixty million, according to the 1996 census. Finally by January, 2006, Egypt`s population had reached nearly 71.348 million inhabitants and is expected to continue rising throughout the 21st century.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/794/sc6.htm

Egypt's current population, at least as of 1996, is over 58.5 million.

 -

The majority of Kmtwy were upper Egyptians.

The majority of Egypt's population today are in the Delta.

The people are still their, but their language and culture have been replaced.

quote:
Originally posted by AMR1:
Egypt for the last 10000 years is the same Egypt, today and the past.

Bad comment. (  - )

Especially if Egypt's population really did double under Hellenistic rule.

The Greeks even barred native Egyptians from going in certain areas and palaces in the Delta, and this is around the same time that Alexander the Great's army is pillaging and raping.

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AGÜEYBANÁ II (Mind718)
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Modern Egyptians are obviously a mixed population, but they carry indigenous African haplogroups. But they also carry many non-indigenous haplogroups that the Ancient Egyptians in no way had.


It's like Modern Puerto Ricans being 60% maternally Native American, and 10% paternally Most Puerto Ricans are mixed, but they do carry indigenous lineages at somewhat high frequencies, it's like saying Puerto Ricans are what the original Tainos and Caribs looked like.

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KemsonReloaded
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To get a complete and clear understanding of what "Modern Day Egyptian" is, one define it in terms of two categories:

A) The average population of modern day Egypt

b) The Arab ruling class

The noted diversity of category 'A' is not and will be reflected in the Arab-Egypt government anytime soon. Without understanding this, members like AMR1 will consciously continue to make erroneously comments like:

quote:
Originally posted by AMR1:
Egypt for the last 10000 years is the same Egypt, today and the past.

In correction to AMR1 bad error, Ancient Kemet, which was built and ruled by Black Africans (Ancient Egypt), and modern day Egypt (ruled by Arabs) are two very different things, in different times, on the same continent. As a matter of fact, the full name for modern day Egypt is "Arab Republic of Egypt", signifying new, foreign rulers very much different from the original Black African builders and rulers 5,000-22,000 years ago. Arabs have absolutely nothing to do with the ancient Black Africans who built and ruled Ancient Kemet, except as modern-day, foreign-beneficiaries of found treasures.
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Ase
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Ok going to play devil's advocate for a second here. Many of the folks that insist they were mixed may say something to the effect of, the population increase doesn't tell us that foreigners or natives increased the population in the area, simply that there was an increase. They may argue for instance, that the general standard of living for native Egyptians could've improved to increase the population.
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mena7
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Oshun you are right the originating and dominant culture in Ancient Egypt was black therefore Egypt was a black civilisation it doesnt matter if some Semite and white people live in Ancient Egypt.In the USA the originating and dominant culture is white therefore the USA is a white people country it doesnt matter if you have a Black, Latino and Asian minority.

--------------------
mena

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Ase
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I think you meant to say that in this thread

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008456

but thanks [Smile]

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