I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
LOL. You're ignorant about linguistic and semitic languages. Swahili is made up of Bantu words and basic semitic words. Semitic languages have a basic vacabullary shared by all of the languages, items from these basic terms are found in Swahili.
Also, we are not talking about the interior of Africa. LOL, we are talking about the cities along the coast which were probably first founded by Axumite merchants.
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Stop trolling. Didn't I freaking state Swahili language had some Arabic words? Isn't Arabic semitic???
No shcit we'e talking cities of the coast. Which were first inhabited by Bantu people from the interior. Again where is your proof people from Axumite settled that far down Southeast Africa?There are no historic sources that state such. And I want REAL sources by people that are actually credible. Like Firewall stated, stop trying the rewrite history.
We already know the first inhabitants of the Swahili coast were those of Bantu origins from the interior via the Bantu migration. But the question is and the purpose of this thread is who was responsible for the development of the Swahili civilization? Who actually controlled the coastal cities? There are no evidence of Swahili people being of Cushite origins.
It is sad that you don’t know the basics of research. If you did you would not make stupid statements that would allow me to make a fool out of you.
But since you are a fool I will make you look even more stupid. You have not bothered to study Ethiopian history if you had you would know that the Axumites are Habashat origin. The Habashat founded the Sabaean and Axumite civilizations. The Sabaeans ruled Azania. This means that the Habashat/Axumites probably founded the trading centers on the East African coast. First we will review the ancient history of Ethiopia.
The earliest civilization in Southwest Arabia date back to the 2nd Millenium. This culture is called the Tihama culture which originated in Africa (Fattovich, 2008).
This view is supported by the archaeological evidence that support a close relationship between the Puntites/ Ethiopians and Nubians. For example, according to Fattovich, the pottery from Tihama Cultural Complex and other Ethiopian sites shows similarities to the Kerma and C-Group pottery. Given this connection between Ethiopian civilizations and civilizations in Nubia, make it clear that the Ethiopians would have been familiar with the ancient writing system used in this area.
At Tihama and other sites in Arabia we find pottery related to the C-Group people of Nubia (Keall, 2000;2008; Fattovish, 2008; Giumlia-Mair, 2002)The archaeological evidence indicates that C-Group people expanded from Nubia to Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley.
This civilization probably originated in Nubia. It is characterized by the cheesecake or pillbox burial monuments which extend from Dhofar in Nubia, the Gara mountains to Adulis on the Gulf of Zula, to Hadramaut, Qataban, Ausan, Adenm, Asir, the Main area and Tihama.
The historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
The evidence of shared archaism for Akkadian and Ethio-Semitic indicate that the speakers of these languages probably shared many linguistic features when they separated. It also suggest that thespeakers of these languages probably separated in Africa, since the Ethio-Semitic speakers have long been established in their present home, as supported by the Egyptian inscriptions. The Ethio-Semitic speakers have maintained these features due to the relative stability of these languages. You can find out more about the stability of African languages in my article "Linguistic Continuity and African and Dravidian languages", International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, 23 (2), (1996) 34-52. We must conclude that the Semitic languages originated in Africa.
References: Keall, E. J. (2000) >Changing Settlement along the Red Sea Coast of Yemen in the Bronze Age=, First International Congress on the Archaeology of the Ancient Near East (Rome May 18-23, 1998), Proceedings, (Matthiae, P., Enea, A., Peyronel, L. and Pinnock, F., eds), 719-31, Rome.
Giumlia-Mair, A., Keall, E. J., Shugar, A. and Stock, S. (2002) >Investigation of a Copper-based Hoard from the Megalithic Site of al-Midamman, Yemen: an Interdisciplinary Approach=, Journal of Archaeological Science 29, 195-209.
Keall, Dr. Edward J.Contact across the Red Sea (between Arabia and Africa) in the 2nd millennium BC: circumstantial evidence from the archaeological site of al-Midamman, Tihama coast of Yemen, and Dahlak Kabir Island, Eritrea .
posted
William H. Schoff, The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century (New York: Longmans, Green, and Co., 1912), provides us with the information necessary to support my view that the Axumites founded many Centers on E African coast.
15. Beyond Opone, the shore trending more toward the south first there are the small and great bluffs of Azania; this coast is destitute of harbors, but there are places where ships can lie at anchor, the shore being abrupt; and this course is of six days, the direction being south-west. Then come the small and great beach for another six days' course and after that in order, the Courses of Azania, the first being called Sarapion and the next Nicon; and after that several rivers and other anchorages, one after the other, separately a rest and a run for each day, seven in all, until the Pyralax islands and what is called the channel; beyond which, a little to the south of south-west, after two courses of a day and night along the Ausanitic coast, is the island Menuthias, about three hundred stadia from the mainland, low and and wooded, in which there are rivers and many kinds of birds and the mountain-tortoise. There are no wild beasts except the crocodiles; but there they do not attack men. In this place there are sewed boats, and canoes hollowed from single logs, which they use for fishing and catching tortoise. In this island they also catch them in a peculiar wav, in wicker baskets, which they fasten across the channel-opening between the breakers.
16. Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships; using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language.
31. It happens that just as Azania is subject to Charibael and the Chief of Mapharitis, this island is subject to the King of the Frankincense Country. Trade is also carried on there by some people from Muza and by those who chance to call there on the voyage from Damirica and Barygaza; they bring in rice and wheat and Indian cloth, and a few female slaves; and they take for their exchange cargoes, a great quantity of tortoise-shell. Now the island is farmed out under the Kings and is garrisoned.
I've heard of Rhapta. I was suppose to have been a very successful and populous marketplace. But I believe its location has not really been identified Anyways thanks for your two cents and source for this discussion. Still reading....Interesting read.
@Clyde Winters
I don't believe the people of Axumite went that far into the interior of Africa. I definitely don't think they had colonies in Africa. Also the Swahili language doesn't seen to have any Ge'ez dialects, which is probably the language the people of Axum spoke. The Swahili language seems mostly Bantu with some Arabic words.
Son of Ra you are an ignorant moron. Yes Bantu would have been in East Africa, but that does not mean they founded the trading centers. The fact that Swahili is a lingua franca makes it is clear that the Bantu found it in their interest to adopt Swahili to trade more effectively with the Habashan/Sabaeans/Axumites who developed the trade network.
In summary, the historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Given the evidence, I am making only one claim: archaeological evidence indicate that the Oldest Sabaean inscriptions are found in Ethiopia, along with monumental architecture. This means only one thing: Sabaean writing was invented by the Ethiopians who took the writing to Yemen, no matter what some experts claim. It further supports the view that the Habashan or Sabaeans would have laid the foundation for the Swahili cities.
The archaeology does not indicate a higher civilization in Yemen than in Ethiopia. All the archaeological data indicate that Ethiopian civilizations were homegrown and taken to Yemen by ancient Ethiopians who probably founded Saba or Sheba.
Civilization originated in Africa, not Yemen.The parameter(s) I use ito identify a cultural tradition first occurs,temporally , it is that place where the cultural complex originated. In relation to Ethiopia we find three things: 1) a long tradition of statehood (Egyptian and Ethiopian records), 2) early engagement in trade (Sumerian and Egyptian text discussing the Puntite and Meluhha civilizations), and 3) oldest evidence of writing existing in Ethiopia (Drewes 1962), not Yemen. Put these elements together we have to acknowledge that the Sabaeans and their writing probably originated in Ethiopia not Yemen.
This means that the Mapharitic king was of Habashan origin. The Habashan founded the Axumite Empire and also probably established the first trading centers along the East African coast that evolved into the Swahili cities.
posted
Ethiopians have had very intimate relations with Indians. In fact the Ethiopians ruled much of India. These Ethiopians were called Naga. It was the Naga who created Sanskrit.
A reading of ancient Dravidian literature which dates back to 500 BC, gives us considerable information on the Naga. In Indian tradition the Naga won central India from the Villavar (bowmen) and Minavar (fishermen). The Naga were great seamen who ruled much of India, Sri Lanka and Burma. To the Aryans they described as half man and snake. The Tamil knew them as warlike people who used the bow and noose.
The earliest mention of the Naga, appear in the Ramayana , they are also mentioned in the Mahabharata. In the Mahabharata we discover that the Naga had the capital city in the Dekkan, and other cities spread between thhe Jumna and Ganges as early as 1300 BC. The Dravidian classic, the Chilappathikaran made it clear that the first great kingdom of India was Naganadu.
The Naga probably came from Kush-Punt/Ethiopia. The Puntites were the greatest sailors of the ancient world. In the Egyptian inscriptions there is mention of the Puntite ports of Outculit, Hamesu and Tekaru, which corresponds to Adulis, Hamasen and Tigre.
In Sumerian text, it is claimed that the Puntites traded with the people of the Indus Valley or Dilmun. According to S.N. Kramer in The Sumerians, part of Punt was probably called Meluhha, and Dilmun was probably the ancient name of the Indus Valley. (Today some scholars maintain that Oman, where we find no ancient cities was Dilmun and the Indus Valley may have been Meluhha).
Ancient Ethiopian traditions support the rule of Puntites or Ethiopians of India. In the Kebra Nagast, we find mention of the Arwe kings who ruled India. The founder of the dynasty was Za Besi Angabo. This dynasty according to the Kebra Nagast began around 1370 BC. These rulers of India and Ethiopia were called Nagas. The Kebra Nagast claims that " Queen Makeda "had servants and merchants; they traded for her at sea and on land in the Indies and Aswan". It also says that her son Ebna Hakim or Menelik I, made a campaign in the Indian Sea; the king of India made gifts and donations and prostrated himself before him". It is also said that Menalik ruled an empire that extended from the rivers of Egypt (Blue Nile) to the west and from the south Shoa to eastern India", according to the Kebra Nagast. The Kebra Nagast identification of an eastern Indian empre ruled by the Naga, corresponds to the Naga colonies in the Dekkan, and on the East coast between the Kaviri and Vaigai rivers.
The presence of Meluhhaites/ Puntites in India may expain the Greek tradition of Kusites ruling India up to the Ganges. It would also explain the Aryan traditions of Mlechchas ( Sanskrit name for some of the non-Aryan people) as one of the aboriginal groups of India. Many scholars associate the name Mlechchas with Meluhha.
The major Naga tribes were the Maravar, Eyinar, Oliyar, Oviyar, Aru-Valur and Parathavar. The Nagas resisted the invansion of the Cholas . In the Kalittokai IV,1-5, the Naga are described as being "of strong limbs and hardy frames and fierce looking tigers wearing long and curled locks of hair." The Naga kings of Sri Lanka are mentioned in the: Mahawanso, and are said to have later become Dravidians, as testified to by the names of these people: Naganathan, Nagaratnam, Nagaraja and etc.
The major gift of the Naga to India was the writing system: Nagari. Nagari is the name for the Sanskrit script. Over a hundred years ago Sir William Jones, pointed out that the ancient Ethiopic and Sanskrit writing are one and the same.
William Jones, explained that the Ethiopian origin of Sanskrit was supported by the fact that both writing systems the writing went from left to right and the vowels were annexed to the consonants. Today Eurocentric scholars teach that the Indians taught writing to the Ethiopians, yet the name Nagari for Sanskrit betrays the Ethiopia origin of this form of writing. Moreover, it is interesting to note that Sanskrit vowels: a,aa,',I,u,e,o, virama etc., are in the same order as Geez.
The Ethiopian script has influenced many other writing systems. Y.M. Kobishnor, in the Unesco History of Africa, maintains that Ethiopic was used as the model for Armenian writing, as was many of the Transcaucasian scripts. Dravidian literature indicate that the Naga may have introduced worship of Kali, the Serpent, Murugan and the Sun or Krishna. It is interesting to note that a god called Murugan is worshipped by many people in East Africa.
It is interesting that Krishna, who was associated with the Sun, means Black, this is analogous to the meaning of Khons of the Kushites. Homer, described Hercules asfollows: "Black he stood as night his bow uncased, his arrow string for flight". This mention of arrows identifies the Kushites as warriors who used the bow, a common weapon of the Kushites and the Naga. Kumarinadu
The Naga or Ethiopians were defeated by Dravidian speaking people from Kumarinadu. Kamarinadu is suppose to have formerly existed as a large Island in the India ocean which connected India with East Africa. This landmass is mentioned in the Silappadikaram, which said that Kamarinadu was made up of seven nadus or regions. The Dravidian scholars Adiyarkunallar and Nachinaar wrote about the ancient principalities of Tamilaham, which existed on Kamarinadu.
Kumarinadu was ruled by the Pandyans/Pandians at Madurai before it sunk beneath the sea. The greatest king of Kumarinadu was Sengoon. According to Dravidian scholars the Pandyans worshipped the goddess Kumari Amman. This Amman, probably corresponds to the ancient god Amon of the Kushites. The Kalittokai 104, makes it clear that after the Pandyans were forced to migrate off their Island home into South India, "to compensate for the area lost to the great waves of the sea, King Pandia without tiresome moved to the other countries and won them. Removing the emblems of tiger (Cholas) and bow (Cheras) he, in their place inscribed his reputed emblem fish (Pandia's) and valiantly made his enemies bow to him".
The fact that the Habashan may have been Naga speakers would explain the relationship between the Zanji cities of East Africa and the Indians.
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Chami (1998) using materials from recent archaeological surveys and excavations in the central coast of Tanzania asserted the existence of Bantu settlements along the coast as early as the first five centuries of the first millennium. He continued that the Bantu settlements evolved between the 6th and 10th century with changing trading opportunities, new technologies, and population growth giving rise to a new form of coastal urbanisation that spread to the northern and southern coasts of East Africa. According to Chami therefore, the early urbanisation along the Kenyan northern coast was influenced by the Bantu urbanisation in the central coast of Tanzania during the second half of the first millennium. The findings from recent archaeological excavations indeed suggest that the inhabitants of early settlements along the East African coast during the first millennium were Africans. However, what have remained unresolved are the conflicting claims about where the early African urbanisation along the East African coast started and its subsequent spreading to other parts of the coast. The main argument so far has been on whether it originated in the northern Kenyan coast or the central Tanzanian coast by Cushitic and Bantu speaking people respectively.
Can you please stop with the nonsense already. Non of your sources even indicate that Axumite was responsible for the development for the Swahili civilization. All you did was speculate after speculate. Again the Swahili language is mainly Bantu with some Arab words. THERE IS NO ETHIOPIAn origin words in the Swahili language. Which you still can't disprove.
Enough with the nonsense already! Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged |
quote:Chami (1998) using materials from recent archaeological surveys and excavations in the central coast of Tanzania asserted the existence of Bantu settlements along the coast as early as the first five centuries of the first millennium. He continued that the Bantu settlements evolved between the 6th and 10th century with changing trading opportunities, new technologies, and population growth giving rise to a new form of coastal urbanisation that spread to the northern and southern coasts of East Africa. According to Chami therefore, the early urbanisation along the Kenyan northern coast was influenced by the Bantu urbanisation in the central coast of Tanzania during the second half of the first millennium. The findings from recent archaeological excavations indeed suggest that the inhabitants of early settlements along the East African coast during the first millennium were Africans. However, what have remained unresolved are the conflicting claims about where the early African urbanisation along the East African coast started and its subsequent spreading to other parts of the coast. The main argument so far has been on whether it originated in the northern Kenyan coast or the central Tanzanian coast by Cushitic and Bantu speaking people respectively.
Can you please stop with the nonsense already. Non of your sources even indicate that Axumite was responsible for the development for the Swahili civilization. All you did was speculate after speculate. Again the Swahili language is mainly Bantu with some Arab words. THERE IS NO ETHIOPIAn origin words in the Swahili language. Which you still can't disprove.
Enough with the nonsense already!
LOL. How stupid can you be. The quote clearly says:
quote: ...coast was influenced by the Bantu urbanisation in the central coast of Tanzania during the second half of the first millennium.
The 2hd half of the first millennium would have been long after the Habashan established trading centers along the coast like Rhapta. Moreover, LOL,the Habashan speakers are Black African, like the Bantu.
Also, Swahili, like ancient Egyptian was a lingua franca.
posted
^^^^No how stupid can YOU be. Again NONE of your sources state the Axumite empire was responsible for the Swahili civilization development. All you're doing is speculating with no real confirmation.
The Swahili civilization started to take root until the 10th century, long after the start of the Axumite empire. You still can't explain why the Swahili language is mostly a Bantu language with NOOO Ethiopian words but Arabs. Again stop with your nonsense. All you're doing is speculating. I leave you to your nonsense. I'm going back to my thread.
Posts: 1135 | From: Top secret | Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: ^^^^No how stupid can YOU be. Again NONE of your sources state the Axumite empire was responsible for the Swahili civilization development. All you're doing is speculating with no real confirmation.
The Swahili civilization started to take root until the 10th century, long after the start of the Axumite empire. You still can't explain why the Swahili language is mostly a Bantu language with NOOO Ethiopian words but Arabs. Again stop with your nonsense. All you're doing is speculating. I leave you to your nonsense. I'm going back to my thread.
LOL. East African trade with the rest of the world did not begin in the 10th century.
Son of Ra you are an ignorant moron. Yes Bantu would have been in East Africa, but that does not mean they founded the trading centers. The fact that Swahili is a lingua franca makes it is clear that the Bantu found it in their interest to adopt Swahili to trade more effectively with the Habashan/Sabaeans/Axumites who developed the trade network.
In summary, the historical evidence support an old presence of Ethio-Semitic in Africa. For example, the Axumite Empire was founded by the Habashan. the habashan are mentioned in a 3rd or 4th century Himyarite inscription from South Arabia, which refers to an alliance between Gadarat King of the Habashan or Habashat.
Some of the people of Punt were probably Tigrinya speakers, who call their language habesha, i.e., Abyssinian par excellence. The term Habesh, seems to represent an old name for Abyssinia and may be connected with the Amharic word washa 'cave or cavern', and may refer to the" cave dwellers" who once served as the principal traders along the Ethiopian coast. The ability of the Ethiopians as sailors, is supported by the title bahr nagash, "ruler of the maritime province" or Eritrea.
In addition, some of the earliest Sabean/Thamudic inscriptions have been found in Ethiopia, and not South Arabia. For example, Dr. Doresse has found Sabean cursive writing on a sceptre that indicates that the Habashat/Axumite empire had writing.
These Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian inscriptions of the 18th Dynasty (1709-1320) in connection to the land of Punt. Given the Egyptian association of the Habashan with Punt, I call the speakers of the Ethio-Semitic languages: Puntites. We have Egyptian evidence of trade missions to Punt as early as PepiII in 2400 BC and Mentuholep IV and IV. The vizier Amenemhat, of Mentuholep IV is said to have established a port near Safaga. the most famous mission to Punt was sent by Queen Hatshepsut, and is recorded at deir el Bahri. Since the Habashan are mentioned in Egyptian documents they were in existence long before the Arabic speakers.
Given the evidence, I am making only one claim: archaeological evidence indicate that the Oldest Sabaean inscriptions are found in Ethiopia, along with monumental architecture. This means only one thing: Sabaean writing was invented by the Ethiopians who took the writing to Yemen, no matter what some experts claim. It further supports the view that the Habashan or Sabaeans would have laid the foundation for the Swahili cities.
The archaeology does not indicate a higher civilization in Yemen than in Ethiopia. All the archaeological data indicate that Ethiopian civilizations were homegrown and taken to Yemen by ancient Ethiopians who probably founded Saba or Sheba.
Civilization originated in Africa, not Yemen.The parameter(s) I use ito identify a cultural tradition first occurs,temporally , it is that place where the cultural complex originated. In relation to Ethiopia we find three things: 1) a long tradition of statehood (Egyptian and Ethiopian records), 2) early engagement in trade (Sumerian and Egyptian text discussing the Puntite and Meluhha civilizations), and 3) oldest evidence of writing existing in Ethiopia (Drewes 1962), not Yemen. Put these elements together we have to acknowledge that the Sabaeans and their writing probably originated in Ethiopia not Yemen.
This means that the Mapharitic king was of Habashan origin. The Habashan founded the Axumite Empire and also probably established the first trading centers along the East African coast that evolved into the Swahili cities.
This makes it clear the Zanji traded with other countries in the Indian Ocean up to the Atlantic Slave trade and European (Portuguese) colonialism.
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