Mitochondrial DNA and the Y chromosome suggest the settlement of Madagascar by Indonesian sea nomad populations
Malagasy derive from multiple regional sources in Indonesia, with a focus on eastern Borneo, southern Sulawesi and the Lesser Sunda islands.
Conclusion "... linguistic evidence suggests that the Malagasy language branches from the Southeast Barito language family of southern Borneo, Indonesia, with the closest language spoken today by the Ma’anyan. To test for a genetic link between Malagasy and these linguistically related Indonesian populations, we studied the Ma’anyan and other Indonesian ethnic groups (including the sea nomad Bajo/Bajau/Sinama) that, from their historical and linguistic contexts, may be modern descendants of the populations that helped enact the settlement of Madagascar.
Settlement may have been mediated by ancient sea nomad movements because the linguistically closest population, Ma’anyan, has only subtle genetic connections to Malagasy, whereas genetic links with other sea nomads are more strongly supported. Our data hint at a more complex scenario for the Indonesian settlement of Madagascar than has previously been recognized.
- - - My interpretation:
The Bajau/Sinama sea peoples of Borneo & Sulu Sea: live on houseboats or (recently) in stilted houses in estuaries, their self-name Sinama is similar to Proto-Semite Tihama 'deep chaos', which is linked to Canaanite godess Elah Yam, probable source of later Hebrew Eloyim/Elohim, plausibly linked to Black Sea Flood 7.7ka.
Sinama term for ancestor is 'ebu' which is what people of Flores refer to their "hobbit" ancestors "Ebu Gogo"; in Malay abu/ayah is father, ibu/emak is mother. Likely ebu is contraction of ancient African "Mbo"/"wombelly"/clan mother as defining a kin lineage, just as a totem (pole/picture) was an emblem/wovenbelt/wampum that illustratively defined an Iroquois matriarchical clan in a longhouse.
In Malagasy, the term for a zebu (Box indica cattle) rustler is dahalo, in Kenya the Dahalo people are KhoiSan-Kushite elephant hunters.
The term Barito (Borneo language family) = Mbarinean/Mbabaram(Queensland pygmy) [dog ="gu.dag.a"]; Congo Mbuti pygmy term for clan is Bari(??), old Hebrew term for "son of" is bar cf Bar Mitzva (birth/bear/bort = buat(Malay: make).
Ma’anyan people probably mixed genes with later immigrants to Borneo (from IndoChina); but Ma'anyan fits typical pattern of the Mande/Mandingo(African)/Ma'dan(Sumer marsh) fishing/boating tribes [cf Malay word for fishing = mancing; matting(reed net/bag]; further (coincidence?) Mandan tribe of Missouri R.
Compare sounds: Ma'anyan ~ Banyan(tropical coastal Ficus/fig tree), Monguolu(Mbuti), Bungalo (hut of South India coasts), Nyasa (East African term related to watershed/god) ... Mombasa(Coastal City in E Afr.), Bantu ~ Barito
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posted
And where did these original Sea Gypsies come from?
From the same report.
quote: Sea nomads have been active traders along the eastern coast of Borneo, southern Sulawesi, the Lesser Sunda islands and the Maluku islands for at least the last few hundred years [62],[63]. These mobile populations linked western and eastern Indonesia, and absorbed individuals from different regions. Sea nomads traveled with their families, even on long distance journeys [36],[37]. Moreover, languages of the Sama-Bajaw group, as spoken by the sea nomad Bajo, form a subgroup of the Barito languages of southeast Kalimantan [35], although not the closest language subgroup to Malagasy. Their patterns of genetic diversity and lifestyle make them possible contenders for the Indonesian populations who helped enact the settlement of Madagascar, although a definite assignment remains elusive. Conclusion
We propose that the settlement of Madagascar had an Indonesian source location around southern Sulawesi, the Lesser Sunda islands and eastern Borneo. The populations involved may be related to modern sea nomad groups and the ancient Malay Srivijaya trading network. The Indonesian ancestors of Malagasy certainly carried maternal lineages with greater putative contributions from eastern Indonesia, and paternal lineages from both eastern and western Indonesia. The absence of any clear genetic connection between Malagasy and at least some populations speaking their most closely related language, Ma’anyan, raises important questions about the link between genes and language in the Indonesian dispersal across the Indian Ocean. Studying other Southeast Barito and sea nomad groups (such as the Orang Laut, who played a crucial role in the Srivijaya expansion) and the application of genome-wide genotyping technologies to provide additional genetic resolution promises to bring new insight to bear on these questions.
posted
The 'Indonesian' component of Madagascar are mostly central highland dwellers, perhaps due to better agriculture than near the coasts.
I've traced the sea people/orang laut Bajau/Sinama of Sulu Sea and the seaborne Moken of the Andaman Sea back to an earlier period, perhaps when the Sunda shelf was above sea level.
Moken + Bajau = mbua.chua = Mbo.djo, which links to Cambodia (Ka-mbo.djo) and the post-Congo expansion term (open space/sun/sky/shine) Xya.mbua.tlaya.
A Queen In Exile. No. 12. Ranavalona III. of Madagascar. Continued
The first two years of her reign were clouded by a war with France, which caused much bloodshed and misery in the coast towns of Madagascar. During that terrible war period the young Queen rose bravely above her private sorrows, and devoted herself to the care of the sick and wounded, visiting the hospitals and promoting schemes for the comfort of the soldiers.
The war was concluded by the Treaty of 1885, by which it was agreed that the foreign relations of Madagascar were to be controlled by France, while her domestic affairs were to be left in the hands of the Queen and her Government....
posted
Sakalava people of Madagascar - a branch of the Malayo-Polynesian language group
The Sakalava are semi-nomadic pastoralists ethnic group of Madagascar who also grow some rice, numbering approximately 1.5 million in population. Their name means "people of the long valleys." They occupy the Western edge of the island from Toliara in the south to Sambirano in the north. They are related to the Antakarana people, and have a sub-tribe called Vezo and Antaisaka. The island of Antsiranana is a sacred island where their ancestors live, and they believe that any Merina (highland people) who goes there will die.
The Sakalava denominate a number of smaller ethnic groups that once comprised an ancient empire, rather than an ethnic group in its own right. The Sakalava speak several dialects of the Malagasy language, which is a branch of the Malayo-Polynesian language group derived from the Barito languages, spoken in southern Borneo. They were known for their sea-faring skills, and were the first to receive firearms from Europeans in exchange for cattle and slaves. They are popular with their traditional facial panting beautification.
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IronLion: " Who were the original Madagascans? MUURZ! "
I've no idea. before the Merinu/Indonesians arrived with agriculture, there were certainly hunting & gathering people on Madagascar, but I don't know their identity.
Since the Malagasy term for a zebu rustler is Dahalo, and the Dahalo tribe (Cushitic-Click speakers of the Eastern Rift & Tana Delta) were traditional elephant hunters (Madagascar had giant lemurs but not elephants), my guess is that a KhoSan-like people (perhaps mixed with Bantu?)had been on Madagascar earlier than the people from Borneo, always in small nomadic bands.
Robert E. Dewar Stone tools and foraging in northern Madagascar challenge Holocene extinction models
Past research on Madagascar indicates that village communities were established about AD 500 by people of both Indonesian and East African heritage. Evidence of earlier visits is scattered and contentious. Recent archaeological excavations in northern Madagascar provide evidence of occupational sites with microlithic stone technologies related to foraging for forest and coastal resources. A forager occupation of one site dates to earlier than 2000 B.C., doubling the length of Madagascar’s known occupational history, and thus the time during which people exploited Madagascar’s environments. We detail stratigraphy, chronology, and artifacts from two rock shelters. Ambohiposa near Iharana (Vohémar) on the northeast coast, yielded a stratified assemblage with small flakes, microblades, and retouched crescentic and trapezoidal tools, probably projectile elements, made on cherts and obsidian, some brought more that 200 km. 14C dates are contemporary with the earliest villages. No food remains are preserved. Lakaton’i Anja near Antsiranana in the north yielded several stratified assemblages. The latest assemblage is well dated to A.D. 1050–1350, by 14C and optically stimulated luminescence dating and pottery imported from the Near East and China. Below is a series of stratified assemblages similar to Ambohiposa. 14C and optically stimulated luminescence dates indicate occupation from at least 2000 B.C. Faunal remains indicate a foraging pattern. Our evidence shows that foragers with a microlithic technology were active in Madagascar long before the arrival of farmers and herders and before many Late Holocene faunal extinctions. The differing effects of historically distinct economies must be identified and understood to reconstruct Holocene histories of human environmental impact.
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: IronLion: " Who were the original Madagascans? MUURZ! "
I've no idea. before the Merinu/Indonesians arrived with agriculture, there were certainly hunting & gathering people on Madagascar, but I don't know their identity.
Since the Malagasy term for a zebu rustler is Dahalo, and the Dahalo tribe (Cushitic-Click speakers of the Eastern Rift & Tana Delta) were traditional elephant hunters (Madagascar had giant lemurs but not elephants), my guess is that a KhoSan-like people (perhaps mixed with Bantu?)had been on Madagascar earlier than the people from Borneo, always in small nomadic bands.
I don't know much about the various kings/queens.
DD'Den
The Sakalavas are Muurish.
The Sakalavas came to Madagascar from Borneo Malaya.
They still speak the language.
Read again:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Sakalava people of Madagascar - a branch of the Malayo-Polynesian language group
The Sakalava are semi-nomadic pastoralists ethnic group of Madagascar who also grow some rice, numbering approximately 1.5 million in population. Their name means "people of the long valleys." They occupy the Western edge of the island from Toliara in the south to Sambirano in the north. They are related to the Antakarana people, and have a sub-tribe called Vezo and Antaisaka. The island of Antsiranana is a sacred island where their ancestors live, and they believe that any Merina (highland people) who goes there will die.
The Sakalava denominate a number of smaller ethnic groups that once comprised an ancient empire, rather than an ethnic group in its own right. The Sakalava speak several dialects of the Malagasy language, which is a branch of the Malayo-Polynesian language group derived from the Barito languages, spoken in southern Borneo. They were known for their sea-faring skills, and were the first to receive firearms from Europeans in exchange for cattle and slaves. They are popular with their traditional facial panting beautification.
posted
IronLion, thanks for the info. about the Sakalava.
Your term "Muur", is that equivalent to Moor (Spain/Morocco) and/or Moro (Mindanao), or Mela (Greek) or does it have a different meaning? I'd guess it refers to coloration/pigment, and so derives anciently from the darkness within a dome hut. monguolu = muabuanuagualua ~ mu'u'ngla / mela(Greek) / gelap(Malay) / mu'u(r/l)a / moro(Philp)
bolo (Afr.) = peel bark/pelt bolo(Philpino) = blade(machete) to peel bark/pelt piloa(Aztec) = pile of (pelts/layers) proa(Nalay) = boat/canoe bwato(Malawi) = dugout log canoe mud/mortar/manure = glue/monguolu = Maasai make a dome hut of bent branches then slather on cow manure to seal it, India bungalow similar; likely mural meant a plaster-on-lathe wall/floor with additional pigmented seal-(ink)/paint/taint/tint, this links to brick wall and adobe/atlob.
The Muur van Geraardsbergen (English: Wall of Geraardsbergen/Grammont, French: Mur de Grammont) is a steep narrow road with cobblestones in Geraardsbergen, Belgium.
The Huevolution of Sacred Muur Science Past and Present: A Theoretical Compilation Paperback – January 6, 2005 by Timothy Myers (Author)
posted
I recently met a guy who was the port manager (Shah-bandar) of the Barito River in Borneo, where the Malagasy settlers came from. He says most of the locals there are Muslim Dayaks of central Kalimantan. He and I spoke Malay, but he said most of his work was in English (international transit), he didn't learn to speak Bahasa fluently during his 8 years there. He married a Christian woman from Sulawesi/Celebes.
posted
The point I was making is that those "seafaring" folks from Malaysia were Negroes to begin with. And being Negroes they were descendants of the first settlers of South Asia who came FROM AFRICA. So the question should be how long has there been a seafaring culture among the aboriginal black populations of South Asia (and Africa). And if there have been Africans traveling between Africa and Southern Asia for thousands of years, then why is this one case of Madagascar special? It isn't. Sure, we all know Africans left Africa on foot, but what if there was also a seafaring side to this as well?
posted
Doug M, excellent video on Agta, I didn't know they still moved seasonally from mountain rainforest to beach/reefs; that is the old old old way of humans.
Africans may have left on foot, but they carried baskets, maybe they coracled over some waterways.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The point I was making is that those "seafaring" folks from Malaysia were Negroes to begin with. And being Negroes they were descendants of the first settlers of South Asia who came FROM AFRICA.
Etymologically, negro means in-dwelling, en-closed, fire/sun is outside.
The guys in the photo appear to be heavily Sinicized, probably "proto-Chinese" similar to Iban of Borneo. many Philipinos, and Assamese Naga of NE India, perhaps mixed with some Pauan-Melanesian, very typical of the general region after Austronesian expansion.
Everyone seems to have different definition of the terms.
posted
For those who don't get it: Negroes and black mean the same thing: a reference to dark skinned Africoid people. Or for those who like to play stupid: tropically adapted people. Africans are tropically adapted people and the term negro and black is a reference to such people and the original people of South Asia are and were tropically adapted people. The first people of Asia were tropically adapted people and among them were already present the features that people call "mongoloid". Epicanthic eyefolds did not originate in Asia. They originated in Africa and there are various African populations in all parts of Africa with similar types of eyes. There is nothing "sinid" about it. That is simply a legacy of European racist scholarship.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] For those who don't get it: Negroes and black mean the same thing: a reference to dark skinned Africoid people.
In my opinion, all humans are Africans or former (ancestral) Africans; all humans derive from tropical rainforest nomadic pygmies, descendants adapted to local climates with resulting changed phenotypes, some became darker, some lighter, some with round eyes (forest/swamp) some with "slanted" eyes (plains/sea). Migrations/expansions and technological/agricultural/societal changes moved people around to areas that differed from their ancestoral adaptations, this continues today.
I don't know the etymology of "black", perhaps it is a variant of dekwe(IndoEuro)/dark, which is from endumonguolu(Bambuti: inside dome hut) as are melanin, negro.
My guess is that the 4 guys descend from proto-Chinese, who descended from KhoiSan-type people (who had followed/pushed herds northeasterly from the African Rift Valley) in Central Asia along the north rim of the Himalayan foothills and then went south along the Vietnamese/Cambodia coasts during a cool period (ice age?) down to Sundaland and spread to the islands.
I think the Papuans/Mamanwa did the same thing at an earlier time, when the Denisovans were still in Central Asia.
posted
Let me make a wild speculation. What if the Malagasy the dark skin Asian looking people of Madagascar were the Native population of Madagascar and South Africa who later migrated to Indonesia and Indochina. The migration of the Malagasy people may not have been from Indonesia to Madagascar. I am probably wrong.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The point I was making is that those "seafaring" folks from Malaysia were Negroes to begin with. And being Negroes they were descendants of the first settlers of South Asia who came FROM AFRICA.
I'm wondering if Doug considers these people to be Negroes
.
Negroe means black, remember?
You often picture spam the threads on who is the blackest. Like you just did, in your previous post.
Black
Blacker
Blackest
It's really a matter of sematics. And as Doug said; european racist scholarship.
quote: The regional distribution of an ancient Y-chromosome haplogroup C-M130 (Hg C) in Asia provides an ideal tool of dissecting prehistoric migration events. We identified 465 Hg C individuals out of 4284 males from 140 East and Southeast Asian populations. We genotyped these Hg C individuals using 12 Y-chromosome biallelic markers and 8 commonly used Y-short tandem repeats (Y-STRs), and performed phylogeographic analysis in combination with the published data. The results show that most of the Hg C subhaplogroups have distinct geographical distribution and have undergone long-time isolation, although Hg C individuals are distributed widely across Eurasia. Furthermore, a general south-to-north and east-to-west cline of Y-STR diversity is observed with the highest diversity in Southeast Asia. The phylogeographic distribution pattern of Hg C supports a single coastal 'Out-of-Africa' route by way of the Indian subcontinent, which eventually led to the early settlement of modern humans in mainland Southeast Asia. The northward expansion of Hg C in East Asia started approximately 40 thousand of years ago (KYA) along the coastline of mainland China and reached Siberia approximately 15 KYA and finally made its way to the Americas.
--Zhong H1, Shi H, Qi XB, Xiao CJ, Jin L, Ma RZ, Su B.
Global distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroup C reveals the prehistoric migration routes of African exodus and early settlement in East Asia.
posted
Doug M: " All humans evolve from various types of African populations. They weren't all "pygmies". "
Go further back in time. All humans descend from rainforest pygmies (not exactly identical to today's Congo pygmies, but quite similar.).
- - -
Mena7: " What if the Malagasy the dark skin Asian looking people of Madagascar were the Native population of Madagascar and South Africa who later migrated to Indonesia and Indochina. The migration of the Malagasy people may not have been from Indonesia to Madagascar. "
That is good thinking. Far as I know, genetics, linguistics, artifacts don't support it, but it should be kept in mind, nature surprises us, and a road/route traveled with an east wind can reverse at times (El Nino).
- - -
Troll patrol # Ish Gebor: " Negroe means black, remember? "
Negro = black, albino = white, by western convention. (My definition differs, based on human language etymology.)
Certainly there are many melanised people with epicanthic folds aka slanted eyes, probably any whose ancestors were mixed Bantu(etc.) & KhoiSan. _ _ _
quote:Originally posted by DD'eDeN: Doug M: " All humans evolve from various types of African populations. They weren't all "pygmies". "
Go further back in time. All humans descend from rainforest pygmies (not exactly identical to today's Congo pygmies, but quite similar.).
- - -
Mena7: " What if the Malagasy the dark skin Asian looking people of Madagascar were the Native population of Madagascar and South Africa who later migrated to Indonesia and Indochina. The migration of the Malagasy people may not have been from Indonesia to Madagascar. "
That is good thinking. Far as I know, genetics, linguistics, artifacts don't support it, but it should be kept in mind, nature surprises us, and a road/route traveled with an east wind can reverse at times (El Nino).
- - -
Troll patrol # Ish Gebor: " Negroe means black, remember? "
Negro = black, albino = white, by western convention. (My definition differs, based on human language etymology.)
Certainly there are many melanised people with epicanthic folds aka slanted eyes, probably any whose ancestors were mixed Bantu(etc.) & KhoiSan. _ _ _
It isn't really an issue of 'mixture'. Khoisan aren't the only Africans with those kinds of eyes, they can be found in all African groups across the continent. That is the problem thinking like Europeans. Africans are the most diverse humans on the planet. And I am talking only about coal black to dark brown Africans.
Look at the models on this page. Almost all of them have significantly different facial features but all are indigenous Nigerian people:
Monguolu/muabuanuagualua = mother/dome/mound/milk = rainforest canopy cover = round-eye hunt-forage above/below in dark/dappled/swamp-coast (not seagoing), thrusting spear & blowgun (no quivering arrow/spear due to heavy vegetation) & short bow/arrows(punt/punctured-pointed/poisoned) with little fletching to control aerodynamic drag. Baskets/shields=woven wicker wigwua.m(onguolu)domes, pounded figbark loincloth/skirt
Xyambuatlaya = open sun = slitted eyes (no hats until Oannes wearing sealskin shawl at Sumer from Black-Caspian?) = "Slanted" eyes = no (thick) forest (canopy) above = hunt/forage/dwell (throwing spears/atlatl/slingshots for distance) on plains and/or open woodlands = KhoiSan = circuit around woodland rim = camouflage = apricot = mixture not necessarily in South Africa, but along outside periphery of rainforest = long bow & recurve(Mongol/Parthian) with long arrows & fletching. Dry/Ri.gid/st.raig.ht wood / brick construction = proto-rectilinear (pit/cave)roundhouses (cone-drum/yurt/tipi) not domes.
Nigeria is mostly not tropical-closed-canopy rainforest, it's higher and drier than Congo basin, with pockets of forest. There are people in Cameroon who I think had been in Zimbabwe-Zambia previously. Much migration in the last 10,000 years, in part due to post-Ice age climate effects on local and distant peoples.
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We found that 90% of the Madagascan dogs carried a haplotype that was also present in sub-Saharan Africa and that the remaining lineages could all be attributed to a likely origin in Africa. By contrast, only 26% of Madagascan dogs shared haplotypes with Indonesian dogs, and one haplotype typical for Austronesian dogs, carried by more than 40% of Indonesian and Polynesian dogs, was absent among the Madagascan dogs. Thus, in contrast to the human population, Madagascan dogs seem to trace their origin entirely from Africa. These results suggest that dogs were not brought to Madagascar by the initial Austronesian speaking colonizers on their transoceanic voyage, but were introduced at a later stage, together with human migration and cultural influence from Africa. - - - Note from GHorvat @ Human migrations:
"Incidentally, of the 52 Taiwanese dogs tested, none of them had the Arc2 “Austronesian” haplotype. Instead, dogs from three separate provinces in Thailand had this haplotype and a couple of dogs from Guizhou province in southern China."
posted
It isn't really an issue of 'mixture'. Khoisan aren't the only Africans with those kinds of eyes, they can be found in all African groups across the continent. That is the problem thinking like Europeans. Africans are the most diverse humans on the planet. And I am talking only about coal black to dark brown Africans.
Look at the models on this page. Almost all of them have significantly different facial features but all are indigenous Nigerian people:
Getting back to the topic of this thread, I've always maintained that Madagascar was settled by Africans FIRST before the arrival of Austronesian seafarers. The latter were just one of several waves of Austronesian expansions including one which were my ancestors. And while I disagree that they were in general "negro" in appearance they were relatively dark and no doubt mixed with the aboriginal Aeta who were the aboriginal peoples of Southeast Asia.
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posted
Is this topic particularly relevant, do you have anything to add to this topic? Why are you bumping years old threads w/ no commentary?
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posted
Come on man. Indonesians did not sail on ships made of straws/reefs across 4000miles of open ocean 2000years ago. Why can’t you people think for yourselves? And why would they? What? Madagascar is some El Dorado.
The genetic landscape of Madagascar if more a remnant of the first OOA and the recent Neolithic Bantus who arrived maybe about 3000 years ago. Look at the high resolution analysis of the Asian Component in Seychelles, Soqutra(sp?), Madagascar etc vs the other side of the Indian Ocean. The “African” Indonesians are NOT a subset of those to the East. Meaning there was no sailing of peoples across open oceans. It is a another lie by Europeans. Why don’t you people question what doesn’t make sense written by Europeans. They have a track record. Damn!
Look at the recent South Asia paper. Lots of yDNA E and A but no mtDNA L. Significance?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
It's always good to revisit ES archives. No particular reason other than wonder and to hear ES voices instead of always running anywhere else but ES for info.
That said, an update I wouldn't've been bothered with except for this random bump.
I may have to rethink your proposal of a now sunken land mass …or these people were doing some serious navigation across the Oceans during pre-historical times. I am not sure how they did it but apparently they did.
This study is fascinating in that the authors make inferences about genetic connection and migration but provided no direct proof. In addition they do not apply the same hypothesis across the board. Eg within some haplogroups they suggest no connection because of dis-similar haplotypes. But assumed Persians were travelling to the Islands even though the haplotypes were different between the two regions.
Nevertheless there is some really interesting information disclosed.
----------------------------- ---
Genetic diversity on the Comoros Islands shows early seafaring as major determinant of human biocultural evolution in the Western Indian Ocean. - Said Msaidie 2011
Quotes: GenBank: HM565257-HM565275). Choice of markers and branch designations was based on published data20 and trees presented at http://www.ianlogan.co.uk.
------ The low incidence of E-M293 (0.8%) and A-M91 (0%) on the Comoros contrasts strongly with the frequency of these haplogroups in East African populations. E-M293 is found mainly in East Africa, Kenya and Tanzania (18%).38 Furthermore, on the African mainland M293 chromosomes carry either 10, or 13 and more repeats at the DYS389I STR locus,38 while, on the Comoros, they have 12 repeats. Haplogroup A has a frequency of 14% in Kenyan Bantu and 7% in Tanzania.13 Other haplogroups of likely sub-Saharan African origin on the Comoros are ESRY4064( xM2,M35,M75) (1.3%) and B2a (1.6%). B2a has a low frequency in southern Iran and Qatar,27,39
-------- Compatible with a Shirazi origin, we found that, at 9 Y-STR loci (DYS19, 389AB, 389CD, 390-393, 438 and 439), 42% of the Comoros Northern chromosomes DIFFER by 0-1 mutation from chromosomes in Southern Iran.48,49
-------- All but one of the Comorian O1 chromosomes are O1a-M50 (5.8%). The O1a-M50 Y chromosome has its highest incidence in SEA: Borneo (10-20%), Sulawesi (4%), Taiwanese aborigines (0-59%, mean 14%) and the Philippines (3-12%).5,52,53 It has not been detected in the Middle East or the Indian subcontinent.5,27,39,45 We performed an MDS with our STR data for the Y haplogroups O, C* and K* together with available STR data from candidate SEA populations (Figure 2b). The Comoros show a low affinity to the populations selected, even when C* and K* are not included (not shown), suggesting that these populations are not the source of SEA chromosomes on the Comoros.
------- The remaining 15.3% of the Comoros sample is composed almost exclusively of haplogroups that can either be unambiguously identified as SEA (B4a1a1-PM, F3b, and M7c1c - 10.6%),25 or fall into the paragroup M(xD,E,M1,M2,M7) (4%) (Figure 3). The latter haplogroups are probably also originally from Southeast Asia, but of the 12 different M* HVS-I sequences on the Comoros, ONLY two match published sequences: two M(xM7) mitochondria found on Madagascar.8 We found no haplogroups that could be assigned to the Middle East.
------- Male-biased gene flow from the Middle East There are no mitochondrial lineages on the Comoros that are frequent in the Middle East (Figure 3). We have tested for, but did not find, the R haplogroups, H, J, T, U and V, or N(xR) that represent 80% of the mitochondria in Iran.56
------ An opposite female gene flow from Africa to the Middle East, is clearly evident in Yemen (34% mt-Hg L; 4% Y-Hg E-M2), Iraq and the Levant.57 However, no mt-Hg L has been found in Iran (n=712),56 despite the presence of Y-Hg E-M2 (1.7%),27 supporting the idea that the elevated mt-Hg L frequency in the western Middle East is not exclusively a consequence of the Arab slave trade, but also of geography.58
------- Interestingly, there are a number of similarities between the genetic profile of the Comoros islanders and the Lemba of South Africa, a Bantu speaking people whose Semitic origins are evident at both the cultural and genetic level.15,59 The Lemba have high frequencies of the Middle Eastern Y chromosome HgJ-12f2a (25%), a potentially SEA Y, Hg-K(xPQR) (32%) and a Bantu Y, E-PN1 (30%) (similar to E-M2), raising the possibility that the Lemba and Comorian populations are consequences of similar demographic processes. The high-resolution genotyping of the Lemba Y chromosomes and mitochondria will elucidate this question
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To the newbies. Several points needs to be highlighted in this study.
1. This is the first I have seen where the Lemba also carry South East Asian (SEA) YDNA hg K 2. The author is suggesting that the peoples of the Comoros although similar is of a DIFFERENT genetic background to Madagascar 3. They also conclude that the African mtDNA haplotype found in Yemen is unique and not due to “slavery”, just as DNATribes, Underhill et al and many others. Yemen is indeed an extension of Africa. 4. Infact that extension may reach as far as Persia since YDNA M2 and B is also found in Persia. 5. The authors made the ridiculous and absurd inference that ONLY “Persian” males made the sea trek to the Comoros during “documented historical” times but the pre-historical hunter gathers (savages) Male AND Femal made the Indian Ocean trek from far away as the Borneo/Taiwan to the Comoros. 6. Note: within a haplogroup, the haplotypes found IN Comoros is NOT a subset of those found in SEA or Persia meaning they are a DIFFERENT population. The author preferentially used that hypothesis. That is why you need to pay close attention to the inferences drawn by the authors when you read these papers. ONLY PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE FACTS/DATA and ignore the BS explanation given by these prejudicial and ignorant authors. They write these inferences like a bad Hollywood script.
To add further. Keep in mind you cannot assume that all populations that belong to a specific haplogroup are closely related. 7-10ya that was the science available. CURRENT technology with high resolution analysis that is no longer valid. Haplotypes(and other high resolution analysis) can now parse out/distinguish within haplogroups. And there is more to come. We are only just getting started.
This technology allowed DNATribes to conclude that Bantu like people existed in Yemen BEFORE the Neolithic/Saharan farmers entered Yemen. Also proved the Bantu expansion NEVER occurred. East African Bantus speakers are older than West African Bantu. Kefi showed Africa has MORE unique mtDNA hgH haplotypes than Europe and Europe is a sub-set of Africa. And I can go on and on and on.
Hit me up with any questions for or against…I got this.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Thoughts?? ----- Quote: “The SEA haplogroups, shared with Madagascar, on the Comoros are O1a-M50 for the Y chromosome and M7c1c, F3b and B4a1a1-PM for the mitochondria. Consistent with their transit West across the Indian Ocean to the East African coast, O1a-M50, M7c1c and F3b are linked to maritime colonisation within island SEA. In contrast, B4a1a1-PM has not been found in island SEA further West than Southeast Borneo (1%) and has expanded mainly East into Polynesia, but also West to Madagascar where it predominates.27, 57 There are nevertheless several indicators that the Comoros' history of gene flow from SEA is distinct from Madagascar's: the absence of Y HgO2-M95 and the very low frequency of B4a1a1-PM, on the Comoros, the higher frequency of F3b (Comoros 8% Madagascar 3.7%), the dissimilarity of M* HVS-I sequences and the low affinity between the Comoros' O1a-M50 chromosomes and those of Madagascar. The fact that O1a-M50, M7c1c, F3b and B4a1a1-PM have not been found at sites around the Indian Ocean,28, 29, 41, 34, 60 outside SEA and now East Africa, is consistent with a colonising migration from SEA to East Africa directly across the Indian Ocean.”
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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