Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Too lazy to make a real post on Bekada (2013) but * R-M412 * R-S116 * R-U152 * R-M529 are offered in analysis of Oran which she or team member Gonzalez or report editor Pereira thinks is representative of Algeria.
Oran may be true for coastal to pre-desert Algeria. I'd say Mzab likely fits northern oasis Algeria but neither is right for heavily Tuareg south Algeria.
True though that there's probably more oases and Ahaggar geneflow to Oran than vice-versa and of course there's no population balance at all since Algeria is overwhelmingly coastal populated.
What I'd like to see is a report on the northern oasis of Wargla and the central oases of the Tuat.
Comments on the Euro male signature being Neolithic, Roman era, Islamic slave era, or colonial/modern.
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Introducing the Algerian Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome Profiles into the North African Landscape Asmahan Bekada, Rosa Fregel, Vicente M. Cabrera,José M. Larruga, José Pestano, Soraya Benhamamouch,Ana M. González mail
Abstract
North Africa is considered a distinct geographic and ethnic entity within Africa. Although modern humans originated in this Continent, studies of mitochondrial DNA [mtDNA] and Y-chromosome genealogical markers provide evidence that the North African gene pool has been shaped by the back-migration of several Eurasian lineages in Paleolithic and Neolithic times. More recent influences from sub-Saharan Africa and Mediterranean Europe are also evident. The presence of East-West and North-South haplogroup frequency gradients strongly reinforces the genetic complexity of this region. However, this genetic scenario is beset with a notable gap, which is the lack of consistent information for Algeria, the largest country in the Maghreb. To fill this gap, we analyzed a sample of 240 unrelated subjects from a northwest Algeria cosmopolitan population using mtDNA sequences and Y-chromosome biallelic polymorphisms, focusing on the fine dissection of haplogroups E and R, which are the most prevalent in North Africa and Europe respectively. The Eurasian component in Algeria reached 80% for mtDNA and 90% for Y-chromosome. However, within them, the North African genetic component for mtDNA [U6 and M1; 20%] is significantly smaller than the paternal [E-M81 and E-V65; 70%]. The unexpected presence of the European-derived Y-chromosome lineages R-M412, R-S116, R-U152 and R-M529 in Algeria and the rest of the Maghreb could be the counterparts of the mtDNA H1, H3 and V subgroups, pointing to direct maritime contacts between the European and North African sides of the western Mediterranean. Female influx of sub-Saharan Africans into Algeria [20%] is also significantly greater than the male [10%]. In spite of these sexual asymmetries, the Algerian uniparental profiles faithfully correlate between each other and with the geography.
excerpts
However, the significantly higher presence of the prominently Arab Y-chromosome J-M267 haplogroup in cosmopolitan compared to rural samples pointed to a substantial male-biased Arab influence in North Africa and the Levant [11], [15], [16], although it is probable that the diffusion of Islam only reinforced previous human displacements [24], [25]. Interestingly, wide geographical longitudinal gradients are detectable overlying local microstructure in North Africa for several uniparental markers [15], [17], [26], [27]. Some of these lineages, such as the mtDNA haplogroups U6 [28]–[30], M1 [29], [31], [32] and X1 [33] had their ancestral roots in the Middle East but expanded in North Africa since Paleolithic times with instances of secondary dispersion in this area. Others, like sub-haplogroup U5b1b [34], sub-haplogroups H1 and H3 [20], [35], [36] and haplogroup V [37] seem to have reached North Africa from Iberia in a post-last glacial maximum expansion. In concordance, an ancient DNA study from Ibero-Maurusian bone remains from Taforalt in Morocco detected the presence of haplogroups U6, V, T and probably H, pointing to a Paleolithic genetic continuity in Northwest Africa [38]. Additionally, male lineages also provide support to a Paleolithic Asia to Africa back migration [39] with Holocene trans-Saharan spreads as testified by the haplogroup R-V88 distribution [40]. Other lineages, E-M81 [26] and E- M78 [41], seem to be of North African origin with Paleolithic and Neolithic expansions that reached surrounding areas. The presence of these clades in southwestern Europe has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts without involving the Levant [41],
Of all North African populations, Eurasian lineages are the most frequent in Algeria [80%] while sub-Saharan Africa origin accounts for the remaining 20%. At least two Eurasian lineages, M1 and U6, had Paleolithic implantation and subsequent expansions in North Africa, reaching the Sahel and Sudan belts. It seems that the main focus of distribution of U6 was in the Northwest and M1 in the Northeast areas of the Continent [28]–[31]. Indeed, the U6 haplogroup frequency is significantly higher in Algeria [11.83%] and W. Sahara and Mauritania [11.04%] compared to the eastern: Tunisia [5.24%, p<0.0001], Libya [4.08%, p = 0.006] and Egypt [0.77%, p<0.0001]. However, the M1 frequency in Algeria [7.1%] raises an anomalous peak in its decreasing gradient from Northeast to Northwest [Supplementary Table S2]. The rest of the Eurasian lineages in North Africa had a Levantine or Middle Eastern origin and, most probably, had reached Europe and Africa in parallel episodes in which sea-travel across the Mediterranean, occurring since Epipaleolithic times, played an important role [13], [62]–[66]. However, for some lineages present in North Africa but showing higher frequencies in Western Europe [for example, H1, H3, HV0 and U5b1b], a direct source in the Iberian Peninsula has been put forward, as a result of post glacial re-expansion [34], [35], [37], [53], [67]–[70]. The observed frequencies for H1 [47.8%], H3 [10.1%] and HV0 [7.5%] in our Algerian sample lie well within the Northwestern- to Northeastern- African decreasing gradients observed for these lineages
Taken together, these values would suggest around 5% male Maghreb input in Mediterranean Europe. In turn, E-V13, R-M412, R-S116, and R-U152 could be used to infer the male European input in the Maghreb, giving a value around 8%. Applying the same reasoning, mtDNA U6 and M1 frequencies on the European side would indicate the maternal gene flow from the Maghreb, the estimated value being around 10%. However, when we tried to calculate the European maternal input into the Maghreb using the H1, H3 and HV0 haplogroups, we realized that their respective mean frequencies in Mediterranean Europe [38.33+4.31, 17.27+3.57 and 5.23+1.06] are within the same range as those found in the Maghreb [42.05+4.92, 13.1+3.51 and 6.99+0.90]. This would imply a 100% European contribution to the maternal pool of the Maghreb. The fact that the three markers show similar frequencies on both sides rules out stochastic processes as a possible explanation, but further analyses, based on complete mtDNA sequences, are mandatory to investigate alternative scenarios.
Although at mtDNA sequencing level the first North African sample studied was from an Algerian Berber-speaking Mozabite population [43], it resulted to be a very isolated group not representative of the whole Algerian population. After that, only a small sample of miscellaneous Algerians has been analyzed [13]. Similarly, only small samples of Algerian Arabs and Berbers have been studied with Y-chromosome binary polymorphisms [26]. To fill in this gap we analyzed a representative cosmopolitan sample from the Oran area of northwestern Algeria. Mozabites are the most differentiated with a p<0.001 value in both comparisons, whereas the Oran-miscellaneous Algerian pair is only significantly different at p<0.05 level. A detailed inspection of their haplogroup profiles compared to those of surrounding populations [Supplementary Table S2] shows that Mozabites present a high excess of U3 and U6a1′2′3 haplotypes whereas the miscellaneous sample lacks HV0 representatives and has an outstanding excess of J/J1c/J2, L3e5 and L2a1 lineages.
the bulk of the sub-Saharan African gene flow has been attributed to historic events such as Romanization, Islamic role and, even more so, the Arab and Atlantic slave trades. A preference for assimilation of females from minority ethnics groups in patriarchal societies has also been put forward [15], [82] to explain the general pattern of sub-Saharan African female integration. The case of Italy could be better explained, at least partially, by more ancient sub-Saharan African inputs into Europe than are thought by several authors to have occurred [83], [84], [86]. However, see Capelli et al. [87] for another point of view. All these uniparental peculiarities could be explained supposing: 1, the existence of several dispersion foci at different times in western Asia, independently influencing the African and European Mediterranean areas; 2, the spread of independent autochthonous lineages in both areas, and 3, bidirectional maritime contacts between areas with minor gene flow.
The inclusion of Algeria offers a more complete view of the North African genetic landscape from maternal and paternal perspectives, showing not only spatial gradients for some lineages but also sexual asymmetry in the relative affinities between populations. Perhaps, the strongest sexual discrepancy refers to the time of the main Middle East and European spreads into North Africa, whereas from the Y-chromosome perspective they seem to have occurred since the Neolithic onwards [26], [40], although see also Luis et al. [88]. From mtDNA [28]–[31] and wide genome analysis [77] the signals of Paleolithic influences are however evident. As the time to the most recent common ancestor through mtDNA is higher than that of the Y-chromosome [89], sex-specific demographic processes are probably the main factor behind this difference. A view reconciling the two perspectives would be that male lineages are better suited for detecting more recent human expansions whereas the ramifications of mtDNA genealogies extend to Paleolithic times and beyond.
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posted
they killed off the the Asiatic men and fucked their women, that goes back to Kemet, /close thread.
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posted
they killed off the the Asiatic men and fucked their women, that goes back to Kemet, /close thread.
Amusing repartee, but that would have happened if R and J were there in North Africa first. Clearly, they weren't.
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Sarcasm...? Niiiice! BTW- This is old. Read the supplementals. If I remember correctly most of the R is R-V88. Supplemental table may have been posted on ESR already.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: they killed off the the Asiatic men and fucked their women, that goes back to Kemet, /close thread.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by lamin:
One always thought that any version of haplogroup E was of African derivation. so too some Mt DNA versions of U.
Plus ca change--and all that, again.
. Of course the E-M81 and E-M78 of the report is E Afr derived although Hamiticism's twin Caucas (ian/oid) E Afr excuses the authors claiming them for Eurasia.
But what about the subject HGs and the males that brought them to N Afr in either the Neolithic, Roman era, Islamic slavery era, colonial modern era, or ???
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
they killed off the the Asiatic men and fucked their women, that goes back to Kemet, /close thread.
.
Most likely, but that has as much relevancy to the subject as those maternal excerpts. This thread's about the Euro paternals. That's what you needed to excerpt and post if anything.
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Most likely, but that has as much relevancy to the subject as those maternal excerpts. This thread's about the Euro paternals. That's what you needed to excerpt and post if anything. [/QB]
please put up the quotes
lioness tip: if Html no parenthesis format message comes up, put text into MS Word
edit>replace
( replace to [ ) replace to ]
(replace all)(automatic)
now parenthesis become brackets, no Html violation
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [qb] Sarcasm...? Niiiice! BTW- This is old. Read the supplementals. If I remember correctly most of the R is R-V88. Supplemental table may have been posted on ESR already.
It's a 2013 article. All you can come up with the usual look at the suppliment stuff ?
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posted
what,, you have a problem with "hidden" data?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [qb] Sarcasm...? Niiiice! BTW- This is old. Read the supplementals. If I remember correctly most of the R is R-V88. Supplemental table may have been posted on ESR already.
It's a 2013 article. All you can come up with the usual look at the suppliment stuff ?
You look at the supplement because there you will find information not reported in the text of the article. Often you may find additional info in the tables and figures. .
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [qb] Sarcasm...? Niiiice! BTW- This is old. Read the supplementals. If I remember correctly most of the R is R-V88. Supplemental table may have been posted on ESR already.
It's a 2013 article. All you can come up with the usual look at the suppliment stuff ?
You look at the supplement because there you will find information not reported in the text of the article. Often you may find additional info in the tables and figures. .
Yes, there you'll find the NittyGritty! Not just plain text.
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posted
I usually save this quality of work for ESR, however I get better feedback on ES. So here goes, to those who can understand and critique…This was posted and discussed many times before but I am beginning to appreciate that repeated discussion can bring new light to an old discussion. These authiors are really hilarious in trying to explain away the presence of “European” women lineage in a predominantly African male gene pool. Their modern prejudices are preventing them from coming to the most logical conclusion. The answer is staring them directly in their faces.
Mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome microstructure in Tunisia - Hajer Ennafaa1,3
Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y-chromosome variation has been studied in Bou Omrane and Bou Saaˆd, two Tunisian Berber populations…. the Nm ratio of males versus females pointed to a significant excess of female migration rate across localities, which could be EXPLAINED(make up a BS story) by patrilocality, a common marriage system in rural Tunisia.. .THIS ONLY APPLIES TO TUNISIA!!! THESE NORTH AFRICAN MEN LOVE THEIR WHITE WOMEN …..AND BLACK WOMEN!!! (SMIRK)
As geographic barriers are less important in Tunisia than in Morocco and Algeria, Tunisia suffered the strongest Arabization process. In fact, Berber speaking communities in this country are limited to a few southern villages and to the south eastern island of Jerba. In spite of this, all the population genetics analyses carried on in Tunisia, using different markers and Arab or Berber speaking ethnic groups, have evidenced a strong genetic structure weakly affected by the Arab domination.
This important genetic structure of the female sub-population, found within a small country as Tunisia, is at the same range that those found when comparing samples from different European countries.6
There is evidence that the sub-Saharan African gene flow in Tunisia shows a strong sex bias, being the women contribution (34%) significantly (Po0.0001) larger than the men contribution (16%). In contrast, the putative Arab influence seems to be mainly maledriven (Po0.0001), as mtDNA lineages R0a and J1b together only represent 3% of the Tunisian female gene pool, whereas J1-M267.
THESE ARAB MEN PREFER BLACK WOMEN OVER THEIR ARAB WOMEN.(SMIRK).
When the global Tunisian male and female gene profiles are compared with those of Morocco at the West and Libya and Egypt at the East (Supplementary Tables S5, S6 and Figure 4), it is evident that the[b] mtDNA sub-Saharan African L haplogroups show a significant higher frequency in Tunisia compared with both, Morocco (Po0.0001) and Egypt (Po0.0003).[.b] In contrast, the corresponding male contribution, around 15%, is rather uniform in the whole area even including the Arabian Peninsula but with the exception of the endogamic sample representing Libya.35 In
I THOUGHT EGYTP WAS THE STAGING POST FOR THE ISLAMIZATION OF NORTH AFRICA. CORRECT ME LIONESS. ANYONE HAS THE SUPPLEMENTALS?
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
OK nobody has a clue about Bekada's * R-M412 * R-S116 * R-U152 * R-M529 Euro male signature in NA whether it's 1 Neolithic, 2 Roman era, 3 Islamic slavery era, 4 colonial/modern era, 5 or ???
You people are full of ****. You all questioned where is the NA Euro male signature but when it's presented you all don't have **** to say.
posted
For those who can follow, what do you make of this?
///===
A Y-chromosome portrait of the population of Jerba (Tunisia) to elucidate its complex demographic history
Étude de la variabilité du chromosome Y dans la population de Jerba (Tunisie) afin d’élucider son histoire Démographique F. MANNI, P.
We sampled 127 males (Jewish sample N = 32; Berber sample N = 46; Arab sample N = 47) in order to identify the Y-chromosome variability of the population according to 10 Unique Event Polymorphisms (UEPs): SRY-2627; SRY-10831a; SRY-4064; 92R7; Tat; YAP; M2; LLY22g; M9; 12f2q. We also sampled the Black group living in Jerba but typing ambiguities forced us to exclude it from further analyses.
Genetic profiles of the Jerban samples and their geographic origin . The genetic profiles of the four ethnic groups provide further evidence of their separate origin; in fact some haplogroups are specific of each sample: (i) Hg P (xR1a, R1b3f) was found at a very low frequency only in the Berber group, (ii) Hg J is specific to Jews while (iii) Hg R1a is recorded only among Berbers. The most widespread Y-chromosome lineage is Hg E (xE3a), absent only in the Jewish sample. These specificities highlight the genetic differences found in the Jerban samples and point to different ancestral populations as is also shown by FCT distances (table III). These differences are presented in details in the next subsections. We would like to note that we also sampled and typed the Black minority for the purposes of an early version of this article but, according to a new nomenclature (Cruciani et al. 2002), it was shown that the two different haplogroups “R1-M173*” and “R1-M269” (usually considered as a single one Hg P [xR1a, R1b3f]) are respectively distributed in Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. When our samples were typed, only the previous nomenclature and typing method were available; therefore we decided to WITHDRAW THIS SAMPLE FROM ANALYSES.. ANYONE HAS THE SUPPLEMENTALS???.
While the CMH(Cohen Modal Haplotype) is NOT specific of Jews, being widespread in several Middle Eastern populations (Brinkmann et al. 1999, Zoosman-Diskin 2000), such a datum seems to support two different scenarios for the Jewish colonization of Jerba: a) a founding group that migrated to Jerba in an early dispersal of Jewish
According to FST distances based on UEPs Ychromosome profiles, we show that there is almost no differentiation between the Berber and Arab samples. This data is strongly confirmed by all the systems with the exception of ABO, a result that is not surprising since this system is unlikely to portray genetic differences at fine geographic scale. Moreover, in a previous study based on mitochondrial DNA (Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2004), no
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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This was discussed already. I will provide more later. I am having fun here. Listen brotha…to come to concensus about these markers you need to compile a review of several papers. That said. The percentages do not add up or natch up to the females. They are grasping. In addition, The paper on ESR – White Male only clearly shows that the younger R-M269 sub-clades are found to the north. Showing there migration pattern. So obviously these young markers are recent ie historical/colonial times. Hope you follow?
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Oh, a wise guy eh?
I understand that extra y chromosome deflicts you
but
What u r doing is taking the subject more and more off topic because you apparently can't add analysis to the subject report.
If you can't speak to the topic I broached then just STFU already.
At least Lioness had sense enough to excerpt the subject report even if with maternals not the paternals.
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Introducing the Algerian Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome Profiles into the North African Landscape Asmahan Bekada, Rosa Fregel, Vicente M. Cabrera,José M. Larruga, José Pestano, Soraya Benhamamouch,Ana M. González mail
excerpts pt 2. Y DNA
Comparisons between North African and Mediterranean Europe maternal and paternal gene pools [10]–[13] reveal sharp discontinuities and limited gene flow between both areas. Furthermore, Berbers constitute a very heterogeneous group showing significant differences even between geographically close communities [14]–[20]. However, an unexpected lack of differentiation between Berber and Arab speaking communities was found [15], [21]–[23].
These results suggest that the Arabization phenomenon was mainly an acculturation process of the indigenous Berber population. However, the significantly higher presence of the prominently Arab Y-chromosome J-M267 haplogroup in cosmopolitan compared to rural samples pointed to a substantial male-biased Arab influence in North Africa and the Levant
only small samples of Algerian Arabs and Berbers have been studied with Y-chromosome binary polymorphisms [26]. To fill in this gap we analyzed a representative cosmopolitan sample from the Oran area of northwestern Algeria. We chose an urban area because urban populations give more representative information than rural, often isolated, localities [15].
However, in the present study, this male sample was further genotyped for the recently described informative Y-chromosome polymorphisms within haplogroups E [41] and R [45] whose subdivision has increased the phylogeographic differentiation between Europe and North Africa. Furthermore, in order to obtain more accurate comparisons, we extended these Y-chromosome fine resolution analyses of haplogroups E1b [M78] and R1b [M343] to published samples of Iberians and Moroccans [46], Saharawi and Mauritanians [47] and Tunisians [15]. This uniparental genetic information has been used to integrate Algeria into the overall North African genetic landscape.
Algerian Y-chromosome profile
Results for the sub-typing of haplogroups E-M78 and R-M343 in the Iberian Peninsula and Northwest African countries including Algeria are presented in Figure 1. In general, data for E-M78 agree with the previous analysis [41]. Therefore, the Eurasian E-V13 is the most common sub-group in Iberia, although one North African E-V65 type has also been detected. On the African side, the lack of E-M78 representatives in a total sample of 189 males from the W. Saharan-Mauritanian area is notable. For the Maghreb countries, the fact that the number of males belonging to para-group E-M78* is the same as those included in the autochthonous E-V65 group also stands out.
For the R-M343 subdivision, the Iberian Peninsula reflects a genuine European profile [45] except for the presence of one Sahel R-V88 type. In contrast, all R-M343 detected in W. Saharan-Mauritanian belong to sub-group R-V88, reaching a frequency of 7%, similar to those observed in other Sahel samples [40]. In the Maghreb countries, the frequency of R-V88 drops to around 1%. On the other hand, the presence in this area of representatives of the European sub-groups R-M412, R-S116, R-U152 and R-M529 points to North-South maritime contacts across the Mediterranean.
Supplementary Table S6 presents frequencies of Y-chromosome haplogroups, as spread out as possible, for the same countries-areas as performed for the mtDNA analysis. Clearly, markers E-V65, E-M81 and J1-M267 confirm the geographic and ethnic identity of Algeria but, while E-M81 represents an autochthonous group that sharply decreases in Egypt, J1-M267 points to a Levantine influence. Haplogroups G-M201, L-M20, R2-M124, T-M70, J2-M172 and the majority of derived J2 sub-groups all reflect West Asian influences on Europe with only weak inputs on North Africa. On their part, several European I sub-groups also extend to West Asia with minor gene flow to the African countries. Exceptions to this general pattern are the subgroups J2-M67 and R-M412 that have similar frequencies in Algeria as in Europe, and R2-M124 whose frequency in Egypt is not significantly different from the mean value of European and West Asian areas. These geographic influences are graphically reflected in the PCA analysis [Figure 2B]. All the European countries are aligned in a diagonal transect running from the Iberian Peninsula to Turkey and the Caucasus, according to their respective geographic positions, and well separated from the North African countries. Within North Africa, the Maghreb region appears well differentiated from Egypt, which, reflecting its geographical position, is near to the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula. The most influential haplogroups in the first component separation are: E-M81, E-V65 and R-V88 that pull the North African countries together, and J-M172, R-M173, R-M17, R-M124 and R-L23 that pull West Asian countries in the opposite direction. In the second component, haplogroups R-L11, R-M529, R-U198, I-M223 and I-M26 are responsible for the spread of the European Mediterranean countries away from Egypt and Arabia, which in turn are pulled by J-M267, B-M60, E-V22 and E-M123.
The unexpected presence of the European male lineages R-M412, R-S116, R-U152 and R-M529 in the Mahgreb could be the male counterpart of the maternal gene flow signaled by the mtDNA haplogroups H1, H3 and HV0. In fact, there are several haplogroups with clear geographical origins from European or North African sides of the Mediterranean, but also present on the opposite side. This could be used to estimate the respective levels of gene flow between areas, assuming that their present day frequencies in the source countries were the same when they spread to the other Mediterranean shore. Thus, mean frequency values for the native North African male clusters E-M81 and E-V65 in the Maghreb [Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya], are 40.03±11.66 and 3.40±0.60 respectively. The mean values for the same markers in western-central Mediterranean Europe [Iberian Peninsula, France and Corsica, Italy, Sardinia and Sicily] are 1.86±1.28 and 0.26±0.8 respectively. Taken together, these values would suggest around 5% male Maghreb input in Mediterranean Europe. In turn, E-V13, R-M412, R-S116, and R-U152 could be used to infer the male European input in the Maghreb, giving a value around 8%.
Recently, it has been reported that the sub-Saharan African gene flow to Tunisia shows a strong sex bias, involving a significantly larger female contribution [p<0.0001] [15]. The same tendency holds for all North African populations except Libya, which could be attributed to insufficient sampling [19]. However, significance levels are more moderate in all instances; for example, probability values in Algeria [0.025] or in W. Sahara-Mauritania [0.043] are two times lower than for Tunisia. The same sex bias is found in the Middle East, reaching significance in Arabia [p = 0.0005] and in the Caucasus [p = 0.045]. In Europe, only Italy shows significant differences [p<0.0001] for the gender contribution of sub-Saharan Africans but contrarily, in this case, the male input [3.91%] is highest than the female one [1.35%]. On the basis of uniparental markers [82]–[84] and massive genomic analysis [77], [85], the bulk of the sub-Saharan African gene flow has been attributed to historic events such as Romanization, Islamic role and, even more so, the Arab and Atlantic slave trades. A preference for assimilation of females from minority ethnics groups in patriarchal societies has also been put forward [15], [82] to explain the general pattern of sub-Saharan African female integration. The case of Italy could be better explained, at least partially, by more ancient sub-Saharan African inputs into Europe than are thought by several authors to have occurred [83], [84], [86]. However, see Capelli et al. [87] for another point of view. All these uniparental peculiarities could be explained supposing: 1, the existence of several dispersion foci at different times in western Asia, independently influencing the African and European Mediterranean areas; 2, the spread of independent autochthonous lineages in both areas, and 3, bidirectional maritime contacts between areas with minor gene flow.
I saw one paper where R-M204 is much higher. THAT! is more significant. If this is found in rural Berber populations you do know the significance of that, do you?
The R-V88 is found in Berbers and some "SSA" groups in Algeria. Opps! Sorry Sage back to the topic.
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quote: Figure 1. Y-Chromosomal Haplogroups in Iberian, North African, and Sephardic Jewish Samples Binary marker phylogeny of the Y chromosome, showing mutations on the branches of the tree, and shorthand haplogroup names40 immediately beneath. Haplogroups unobserved in any sample are indicated by dashed branches on the tree. Below the phylogeny are given the percentages of chromosomes carrying the observed haplogroup. Abbreviations are as follows: n, sample size; h, Nei’s unbiased estimator of gene diversity. Data on North African populations are from the literature (see footnotes). a Data from Bosch et al.34 b Data from Arredi et al.,47 with haplogroup prediction for hgG. c Subhaplogroups of R1b3 were not typed in the Sephardic Jewish sample.
quote: Figure 2. Haplogroup Distributions in Iberian, North African, and Sephardic Jewish Populations Haplogroup profiles of samples from the Iberian Peninsula and the Balearic Islands, published North African samples,34,47 and a Sephardic Jewish sample. Sectors in pie charts are colored according to haplogroup in the schematic tree to the right, and sector areas are propor- tional to haplogroup frequency. Sample names, abbreviations, and sizes (within pie charts) are indicated. Subhaplogroups of R1b3 were not typed in the Sephardic Jewish sample.
quote: Figure 4. Iberian, North African, and Sephardic Jewish Admixture Proportions among Iberian Peninsula Samples Mean North African, Sephardic Jewish, and Iberian admixture proportions among Iberian samples, based on the mY estimator and on Moroccan, Sephardic Jewish, and Basque parental populations, are represented on a map as shaded bars on bar charts. Error bars indicate standard deviations, and three-letter codes indicate populations, as given in Figure 1.
quote: Figure 6. Diversity of Y-STR Haplotypes Belonging to Haplogroup R1b3 Reduced median network53 containing the eight-locus Y-STR (DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II-I, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS439) haplotypes of 767 hgR1b3 chromosomes, from Iberian populations and the Sephardic Jewish and Moroccan parental samples used in admix- ture analysis. Circles represent haplotypes, with area proportional to frequency and colored according to population, as shown in the key. For Iberian data, hgs R1b3b, R1b3d, R1b3f, and R1b3g have been combined into hgR1b3, because these sublineages were not distin- guished in the Sephardic Jewish sample.
quote:Most studies of European genetic diversity have focused on large-scale variation and interpretations based on events in prehistory, but migrations and invasions in historical times could also have had profound effects on the genetic landscape.The geographical distribution of North African ancestry in the peninsula does not reflect the initial colonization and subsequent withdrawal and is likely to result from later enforced population movement—more marked in some regions than in others—plus the effects of genetic drift.
quote: The established population of the Iberian Peninsula prior to 711 CE has been estimated at 7–8 million people, ruled by about 200,000 Germanic Visigoths,19 who had entered from the north in the sixth century. Though the initial invading North African force was between 10,000 and 15,000 strong, the scale of subsequent migration and settlement is uncertain, with some claiming numbers in the hundreds of thousands. 20 Islamization of the populace after the invasion was certainly rapid, but it has been argued that this reflects an exponential social process of religious conversion rather than a substantial immigration;21 a sizeable proportion of the indigenous population (the so-called Mozarabs) was allowed to retain its Christian practices, as a result of the religious tolerance of the Muslim rulers.22 There is also doubt about the extent of intermarriage between indigenous people and settlers in the early phase.20 After the overthrow of Islamic rule in most of the peninsula, a period of tolerant coexistence (convivencia) ensued in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, but after 1492 (1496 in Portugal), religious intolerance forced Spanish Muslims to either convert to Christianity (as so-called moriscos) or leave.23 After the fifteenth century, moriscos were relocated across Spain on occasion, and, finally, during 1609–1616, over 200,000 were expelled, mostly from Valencia.
Etc...
--Susan M. Adams, Mark A. Jobling et al.
The Genetic Legacy of Religious Diversity and Intolerance: Paternal Lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula
Y chromosomal haplogroups defined by the 37 binary markers used. The solid lines represent haplogroups found in the study while the dashed lines are haplogroups not detected in the sample. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0053731.s001
RST distances among 29 populations based on Y–STR haplotypes. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0053731.s005
quote: Moldova has a rich historical and cultural heritage, which may be reflected in the current genetic makeup of its population. To date, no comprehensive studies exist about the population genetic structure of modern Moldavians. To bridge this gap with respect to paternal lineages, we analyzed 37 binary and 17 multiallelic (STRs) polymorphisms on the non-recombining portion of the Y chromosome in 125 Moldavian males. In addition, 53 Ukrainians from eastern Moldova and 54 Romanians from the neighboring eastern Romania were typed using the same set of markers. In Moldavians, 19 Y chromosome haplogroups were identified, the most common being I-M423 (20.8%), R-M17* (17.6%), R-M458 (12.8%), E-v13 (8.8%), R-M269* and R-M412* (both 7.2%). In Romanians, 14 haplogroups were found including I-M423 (40.7%), R-M17* (16.7%), R-M405 (7.4%), E-v13 and R-M412* (both 5.6%). In Ukrainians, 13 haplogroups were identified including R-M17 (34.0%), I-M423 (20.8%), R-M269* (9.4%), N-M178, R-M458 and R-M73 (each 5.7%). Our results show that a significant majority of the Moldavian paternal gene pool belongs to eastern/central European and Balkan/eastern Mediterranean Y lineages. Phylogenetic and AMOVA analyses based on Y-STR loci also revealed that Moldavians are close to both eastern/central European and Balkan-Carpathian populations. The data correlate well with historical accounts and geographical location of the region and thus allow to hypothesize that extant Moldavian paternal genetic lineages arose from extensive recent admixture between genetically autochthonous populations of the Balkan-Carpathian zone and neighboring Slavic groups.
--Varzari A, Kharkov V, Nikitin AG, Raicu F, Simonova K, Stephan W, Weiss EH, Stepanov V.
Paleo-Balkan and Slavic contributions to the genetic pool of Moldavians: insights from the Y chromosome.
Tukuler
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The paper on ESR – White Male only clearly shows that the younger R-M269 sub-clades are found to the north. Showing there migration pattern. So obviously these young markers are recent ie historical/colonial times. Hope you follow?
.
Alright I follow you now and I owe you an apology. because you were spot on topic proposing colonial/ modern times for the Euro male signature incretions.
cranky off da chain al~Takruri
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Tukuler
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Opps! Sorry Sage back to the topic.
I see you're not alone in being mostly unable to add to the topic.
I know you're onto physics again (can't be in a time before one is born) about R-M412 R-S116 and R-U152 so what are their coalescence dates or their amount of local variance leading to a colonial/modern conclusion? Admitted they seem too young for Neolithic by their phylogeny alone though Bekada tries to associate them with mtDNA that really is Neolithic or earlier. Contrary to the text, supplement table S6 shows R-M569 is not in N Afr.
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Tukuler
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@TP
I'm clueless so gimme a hint. What do those posts have to do with the subject report by Bekada on Algeria or the queries I have regarding the three R HGs proposed as the signature of Euro males in NA?
I'm clueless so gimme a hint. What do those posts have to do with the subject report by Bekada on Algeria or the queries I have regarding the three R HGs proposed as the signature of Euro males in NA?
It's an automatic reaction to me. If I post text and charts he must post texts and charts
He's always in battle mode. You pass by the house and the dog barks every time.
If I post a picture of an apple in a thread about apples by obligation he must post an orange. He can't choose another apple at that point It's a yin and yang sort of thing
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Bekada----. Any questions on the chart just ask but it is self explanatory. The pattern is very simple. The older underived R-M269 and R-V88 clades are found in Africa and Southern Europe notable Sardinia, and Corsica. The younger subclades are found in North and West Europe.
QUOTE – from Bekada paper.
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would indicate the maternal gene flow FROM the Maghreb, the estimated value being around 10%. However, when we TRIED to calculate the European maternal input INTO the Maghreb using the H1, H3 and HV0 haplogroups, we realized that their respective mean frequencies in Mediterranean Europe (38.33+4.31,
17.27+3.57 and 5.23+1.06) are within the same range as those found in the Maghreb (42.05+4.92, 13.1+3.51 and 6.99+0.90). This would imply a 100% European contribution to the maternal pool of the Maghreb. The fact that the three markers show similar frequencies on both sides rules out stochastic processes as a possible explanation, but further analyses, based on complete mtDNA sequences, are mandatory to investigate ALTERNATIVE scenarios. Genetic and…….. TRANSLATION; THIS IS NOT WHAT WE EXPECTED. THE DATA SHOWS HG-H IS NOT EUROPEAN. WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND MAKE MORE SHYTE UP. WE HAVE TO KEEP DELUDING OURSELVES.
The case of Italy could be better explained, at least partially, by more ANCIENT sub-Saharan African inputs into Europe than are thought by several authors to have occurred [83,84,86]. However, see Capelli et al. [87] for another point of view...SO WHAT DO THEY THINK, SOUTH SAHARANS WOULD MIGRATE INTO EUROPE BUT THE SAHARANS WOULDN’T? IS THERE MEDICATION FOR DELUSIONAL SYMPTOMS?
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Henn observed the same pattern of one way migration from Africa to Europe using autosomal SNPs. DNATrbies also confirmed through SNP that city Algerians are 6% European and North Moroccans about 5%. What is really fascinating is that the Mauritanians(SAM) and Tunisians have ZERO% European markers per Bekada.Figure 1. So obviously there is reason behind this pattern.. Did Algeria have a greater degree of European colonial dominance compared to say Tunisia.? Clearly the younger R-M289 sub-clades are found there but NOT in the purer, yes Beyoku, purer Tunisians AND YOUR Saharawi's.
Resolution goes a long way. Maybe Beyoku can help me out with Table S1. He claims to have done analyzes 100s of times. Table S1 has the Algerian mtDNA breakdown. I am interested in hg-H. Compare that with work published by Achilli and Toronni. I asked for a similar comparison on mtDNA hg-U on ESR…but no response.
BTW- Notice R-V88 is found in Egypt and the Levant(African Bedouins-Beyoku), Also Algeria and Sardinia/Italy/Corsica and Saharawi's and Iberians. Do you know why? Anyone?
The odd man out is the Persians. This is further evidence of Black Persians as also seen in PN2 but what is the migration route? Unlike PN2 it does not seem to be the across the Horn but through the Levant. Anyone?
This is fascinating shyte. Sage …you owe me. (wink)
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Thanks Lioness. Got it Sage?? That paper on ESR combined with Bekada ,,should set you straight.
Those African bearing R-V88 from the Levant just keep popping up....
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Tukuler
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OK Ok Chill...Bro. R-V88 pattern was/is more interesting in NA and points farther to me.
But as for --
S116 and RU152 are covered in the ESR thread. They are yes, younger, Will have to re-read the paper to get the exact age, if available, I paid the age thing no mind since it is younger than underived R-M269.
Maybe Lioness can help out with the supplementals on that.
R-M412.. I will have to check the same paper on ESR.
I hope Zaharan understands now why I called it for "For White Males only".
Oh! and you will never really see age and diversity between Europe and Africa... for the clades. You MAY see age but never diversity.
I have been asking for comparison on mtDNA hg-H. All doors will be closed after that.
Remember Sweetness and I had that discussion on age. They can play games with age but NOT with diversity.
That is why I asked Beyoku to help out since he is more familiar with the available software. Notice in the supplementals ONLY the diversity of Algerians mtDNA H was published. The proper thing for them to do was publish on both sides of the sea but they did not......more carrot and stick
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Remember also I contend that mtDNA H is African. Why? because in that one paper on ESR they noted that the age was about the same on both sides of the Sea for some sub-clades of H. If I remember correctly H3 was older in Africa. H1 was about the same on both. Diversity would resolve the issue. Up to today I haven't seen anything close. I suspect it would be the same with S116 etc
It is only over the last month I started seriously looking into R-M269.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Remember also I contend that mtDNA H is African. Why? because in that one paper on ESR they noted that the age was about the same on both sides of the Sea for some sub-clades of H. If I remember correctly H3 was older in Africa. H1 was about the same on both. Diversity would resolve the issue. Up to today I haven't seen anything close. I suspect it would be the same with S116 etc
It is only over the last month I started seriously looking into R-M269.
I have been looking at M269 for some time. The presence of this haplogroup throughout Africa--even among groups like the Twa (pygmies) and Khoisan who have no history of interaction with Europeans--is what led me to recognize the African origin of haplogroup R.
I am afraid that some` researchers will avoid placing evidence of African genes among Eurasian populations because it is destroying this idea that certain genes are caucasian. If the past researchers could blame the presence of Black, I mean Sub-Saharan genes in eurasia on the slave trade data in the supplemental tables often show SSAs in Eurasia prior to the slace trade.
In India, many of the researchers are North Indians, and they are trying to deny the origin of the Dravidians--eventhough the archaeology and linguistics prove they only arrived in India 5ky ago. The Kivisild et al 1999, study found that 26 high caste Indians carried M1. Now every paper published about Indian genomes state there is no evidence of African connections. LOL this helps the Hindutva (Hindu Nationalist) propagate this myth--but--it fails because of the Kivisild et al article and other works.
Once we get the real lowdown on Dravidian genomics, researchers will have to admit that haplogroup M, and y-chromosome R originated in Africa due to the recent migration of Dravidians into South India. Once Dravidians are returned to the African/negro fold, the entire field of population genetics will have to be re-written.
My most interesting finding in relation to haplogroup R, is that Africans probably introduced this haplogroup to North America.
I agree with you about mtDNA H. I am happy to see that Spainish researchers have not been clued into the fact they shoul stop reporting all of their findings. as a result, we are getting more and more knowledge on the early presence of Africans in Iberia.
xyyman keep teaching. It is sad that some people don't understand tha most genomic articles relating to population genetics are primary research. This means that many of th tables provide raw data. This data is there to be interpretated by researchers.
All xyyman is doing is interpreting the research. This is good because research can either be confirmed or disconfirmed. Most readers on this forum believe that the tables they see in research articles can only be interpreted the way the author of the article interpreted the data. So they attack xyyman without any foundation. Instead of dissing xyyman, readers should be happy he takes the time to share with us his ideas, even if one disagrees with him. .
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Clyde the average Maghrebian of today what is your guess of the percentage African / non-African ancestry?
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Tukuler
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OK got it.
1 - u r not interested in my questions 2 - u have nothing on R-M412 R-S116 R-U152 coalescence (except the obvious, i.e, the longer the phylo designation the younger relative subclade) 3 - u have nothing on R-M412 R-S116 R-U152 diversity relative NA vs SWE
So instead u hi-jack the thread to yr own purposes.
Nevermind that several times ESers have queried about the signature of Euro males in the Tell and Bekada proposes such though surreptitiously tieing them to Epi-Paleo & early Holocene mtDNA.
It's OK, I understand, you just can't do it. African R-V88 just can't tell us anything about leftover Euro slaves, imperial settlers, chalcolithic traders or Holocene expansion.
Code tag didn't work quite right earlier so...
Note for purposes of her study Bekada's freqs root E1b1 and P,R in Libya and declares R-V88 West African.
.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: OK Ok Chill...Bro. R-V88 pattern was/is more interesting in NA and points farther to me.
But as for --
S116 and RU152 are covered in the ESR thread. They are yes, younger, Will have to re-read the paper to get the exact age, if available, I paid the age thing no mind since it is younger than underived R-M269.
Maybe Lioness can help out with the supplementals on that.
R-M412.. I will have to check the same paper on ESR.
I hope Zaharan understands now why I called it for "For White Males only".
Oh! and you will never really see age and diversity between Europe and Africa... for the clades. You MAY see age but never diversity.
I have been asking for comparison on mtDNA hg-H. All doors will be closed after that.
Remember Sweetness and I had that discussion on age. They can play games with age but NOT with diversity.
That is why I asked Beyoku to help out since he is more familiar with the available software. Notice in the supplementals ONLY the diversity of Algerians mtDNA H was published. The proper thing for them to do was publish on both sides of the sea but they did not......more carrot and stick
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Thanks for the prop Dr. Winters. Continuing.....I think Sage is onto something. I got your answers. I will post when I have more time.
But, some of these posters are clueless. They just regurgitate what the researcher writes. The researchers are manipulatve with their choice of words. Eg. "Rule out stochastic processes". You cannot prove they outright lied. They cover their tracks very well. They got no proof that hg-H is European, many here don't understand that is what they said.
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Just saw your post. It you were Sweetness.........
As I said, the answer is on ESR. I MAY post later....with That attitude. M222 is 3K bp. .....take it from there. Or go to ESR when I post the entire table.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Tukuler
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
@TP
I'm clueless so gimme a hint. What do those posts have to do with the subject report by Bekada on Algeria or the queries I have regarding the three R HGs proposed as the signature of Euro males in NA?
It's an automatic reaction to me. If I post text and charts he must post texts and charts
He's always in battle mode. You pass by the house and the dog barks every time.
If I post a picture of an apple in a thread about apples by obligation he must post an orange. He can't choose another apple at that point It's a yin and yang sort of thing
.
Doubt it. I see now that it ties in with Bekada's BAL data. R-M412 is ancestral for R-S116 which is ancestral to R-U152. For purposes of her report Bekada's freqs split the root of R-M412 between Egypt and the Balkans.
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Tukuler
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Naw man we doin this right here I ain goin nowhere ain chasin yr ass all over the net to read about what needs to be here where it started
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Just saw your post. It you were Sweetness.........
As I said, the answer is on ESR. I MAY post later....with That attitude. M222 is 3K bp. .....take it from there. Or go to ESR when I post the entire table.
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The answers on ageof these markers S116, 412 etc is/will be on ESR. Look hard. Not only that the divesity MAY be able to be calculated. I just found the data that may be used. This reminds me of the DNATribes and the Armana mummies thing. The answer was staring us in the face for 12months before DNATribes showed us how, and we were to dumb to not see it. We spent a year arguing about Tut being R1b. LOL!
I am not that arrogant to admit I don’t know something. Or maybe not….Anyways, I am speculating that the diversity can be calculated. They provided the relevant SNP points on the Y-chromosome for all populations in the Myers/Underhill study.. Beyoku can jump in anytime to confirm the calculation. (Wink). I rely on the author to perform the calculations. If I spend enough time, I can.
In short I just told you where you can find the age…and maybe the diverisity
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xyyman is it true that there is no so called European haplogoup that isn't in actuality African, therfore rendering Europe an extension of Africa? In othern words France and Germany etc are in actuality Northern North Africa. If Arabia can be an extension of Africa why can't Europe be? Look at the Saami for instance, they are nothing more than Fulbe immigrants
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Everyone is an African...if we go back far enough.
Remember Africans had a 150,000yr head start. They perfected this thing. They have seen it all.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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I'm clueless so gimme a hint. What do those posts have to do with the subject report by Bekada on Algeria or the queries I have regarding the three R HGs proposed as the signature of Euro males in NA?
People from Central and Southwest europe have been taken to several places of Northwest and Northeast Africa. Males as slave soldiers and females as concubines. But also colonizations from Southern Europe to parts of Northern coastal Africa have taken place.
What I've posted tells part of this story, indirectly.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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I'm clueless so gimme a hint. What do those posts have to do with the subject report by Bekada on Algeria or the queries I have regarding the three R HGs proposed as the signature of Euro males in NA?
It's an automatic reaction to me. If I post text and charts he must post texts and charts
He's always in battle mode. You pass by the house and the dog barks every time.
If I post a picture of an apple in a thread about apples by obligation he must post an orange. He can't choose another apple at that point It's a yin and yang sort of thing
.
Doubt it. I see now that it ties in with Bekada's BAL data. R-M412 is ancestral for R-S116 which is ancestral to R-U152. For purposes of her report Bekada's freqs split the root of R-M412 between Egypt and the Balkans.
Yes, and those clades are relatively young.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Everyone is an African...if we go back far enough.
Remember Africans had a 150,000yr head start. They perfected this thing. They have seen it all.
Dr Spencer Wells, Harvard evolutionary geneticist: There is more genetic diversity in any single African village than in the whole world outside Africa.
Geneticist Sarah Tishkoff: Non-Africans are recently descendant from a small population of East Africans.
quote:
Africa is the birthplace of modern humans, and is the source of the geographic expansion of ancestral populations into other regions of the world.
Indigenous Africans are characterized by high levels of genetic diversity within and between populations. The pattern of genetic variation in these populations has been shaped by demographic events occurring over the last 200,000 years.
The dramatic variation in climate, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent has also resulted in novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations in extant Africans.
This review summarizes some recent advances in our understanding of the demographic history and selective pressures that have influenced levels and patterns of diversity in African populations.
Africa not only has the highest levels of human genetic variation in the world but also contains a considerable amount of linguistic, environmental and cultural diversity. For example, more than 2,000 distinct ethno-linguistic groups, representing nearly a third of the world’s languages, currently exist in Africa
The timing and duration of some of these demographic events were often correlated with known major environmental changes and/or cultural developments in Africa [6].
A number of novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations have also evolved in Africans in response to dramatic variation in environment, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent.
In some cases, these adaptations have occurred in the last several thousand years, exemplifying the ongoing evolution of human populations.
Thus, present-day patterns of variation in African genomes are a product of both demographic and selective events.
--Sarah Tishkoff et al. (2010)
The Evolution of Human Genetic and Phenotypic Variation in AfricaPosts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: xyyman is it true that there is no so called European haplogoup that isn't in actuality African, therfore rendering Europe an extension of Africa? In othern words France and Germany etc are in actuality Northern North Africa. If Arabia can be an extension of Africa why can't Europe be? Look at the Saami for instance, they are nothing more than Fulbe immigrants
Sometimes I even surprise myself. I missed this the first time around.
Quote:
\\==
Mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome microstructure in Tunisia - Hajer Ennafaa1,3
When the global Tunisian male and female gene profiles are compared with those of Morocco at the West and Libya and Egypt at the East (Supplementary Tables S5, S6 and Figure 4), it is evident that the mtDNA sub-Saharan African L haplogroups show a significant higher frequency in Tunisia compared with both, Morocco (Po0.0001) and Egypt (Po0.0003). In contrast, the corresponding male contribution, around 15%, is rather UNIFORM in the whole area EVEN!, EVEN! EVEN!, including the Arabian Peninsula but with the exception of the endogamic sample representing Libya.35 In
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Do you understand what they are admitting to here Lioness? Arabia is an extension of Africa. 15% SSA lineage across the Sahara Africa INTO Arabia. Right across the board/land. It is one great land mass. Arabia is part of (Sahara)Africa.
BTW – About 10% in Southern Europe. So yes parts of Southern Europe is an extension of “modern“ Africa also. Don’t believe me. Ask Brenna Henn.
Tell me what you think after reading these.. Here is a taste
1. Cerezo M, Achilli A, Olivieri A, Perego UA, Gomez-Carballa A, et al. (2012) Reconstructing ancient mitochondrial DNA links between Africa and Europe
2. Moorjani P, Patterson N, Hirschhorn JN, Keinan A, Hao L, et al. (2011) The history of African gene flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews.
3. Casas MJ, Hagelberg E, Fregel R, Larruga JM, Gonzalez AM (2006) Human mitochondrial DNA diversity in an archaeological site in al-Andalus: genetic impact of migrations from North Africa in medieval Spain
4. Capelli C, Onofri V, Brisighelli F, Boschi I, Scarnicci F, et al. (2009) Moors and Saracens in Europe: estimating the medieval North African male legacy in southern Europe.
5. Richards M, Rengo C, Cruciani F, Gratrix F, Wilson JF, et al. (2003) Extensive female-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa into near eastern Arab populations.
======
Abstract:
Antonio Torroni7
1Department of Chemical and Biological Sciences, University of Huddersfield, Huddersfield, United Kingdom; 2Dipartimento di Genetica Rome;
We have analyzed and compared mitochondrial DNA variation of populations from the Near East and Africa and found a VERY HIGH frequency of African lineages present in the Yemen Hadramawt: more than a third were of CLEAR sub-Saharan origin. OTHER Arab populations carried 10% lineages of sub-Saharan origin, whereas non-Arab Near Eastern populations, by contrast, carried few or no such lineages, suggesting that gene flow has been preferentially into Arab populations. In contrast, there is little evidence for male-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa in Ychromosome haplotypes in Arab populations, including the Hadramawt.
I hope you understand what they are really saying. Note: they used the term “non-Arabs” IN the Arabian Peninsula. Those with no African ancestry are NOT Arabs. You do understand that…don’t you? Beyoku are you paying attention also. Here again we see evidence of Arabs loving their black women. (Sic). LOL! Not really! It is just the African male enjoying their African women.
Quote : “whereas non-Arab Near Eastern populations, by contrast, carried few or no such lineages” You do know who the non-Arab near East population is? This also support work published by DNATribes, Behar, Henn, Underhill, etc. The Indigenous peoples of Arabia are Africans(Saharans/South Saharans). Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Oh! Sorry Sage. Here you go. The diversity values are in the same study. A little sloppy work. I am working on other stuff.
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Tukuler
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Member # 19944
posted
Applying Myres2011 Balareque2010 & Cruciani2010 to Bekada2013 re her Algerian M412 S116 U152
Myres gives coalescences for two - M412 __ 8870±1708 - S116 __ 8630±1529
and Cruciani for one - U152 __ 7.4k (95% CI 5.3k-10.2k).
These dates are all European and Neolithic. Balaresque goes into the u-sat diversities but is irrelevant for ascertaining Algeria vs SW Europe relative age estimate.
From what's available to me the three came into Algeria sometime after or near the end of the Neolithic on up to colonial/modern eras. Which is pretty much what Troll Patrol says. Nothing indicates no earlier than colonial/modern as per Xyyman.
Posts: 8179 | From: the Tekrur straddling Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011
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