posted
1879 B.C. mummy ; Someone apparently managed to get his result on Gedmatch and no surprise he's similar to modern copts and overall modern egyptians :
Quite funny to see that the closest people to these ancient samples outside of Egypt are modern day arabs meanwhile afrocentrists call modern day egyptians "arabs" in order to depict them as invader.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:A team led by anthropologist Margaret Murray, the first female archaeologist to become a lecturer at a British university, argued that "it is almost impossible to convince oneself that they belong to the same race, far less to the same family."
The mummies' skull anatomies were too different, the scholars said. Later, researchers studied scraps of their skin. They agreed with Murray's team – the mummies' distinct complexions suggested these men did not share parents.
No one had it quite right. A new genetic analysis aims to clear up this relationship. Khnum-Nakht and Nakht-Ankh were, as the text on their coffins suggested, mummies from the same mother ... a woman named Khnum-aa.
. Regarding the opening post and this thread's header:
Where is the peer review published raw autosome data?
Where is anything on the subject's brother same mother?
mtDNA only shows the mother's mother's mother ad infinitum lineage.
nrY SNPs only indicate father's father's father ad infinitum lineage.
What's lost is the sauce, the non-sex specific autosomes. They're what's used by laboratories and courtrooms when establishing an individuals' ties to a particular geographic breeding population or ethnic grouping.
AUTOSOMES come from both mother and father. They reveal all the lost ethnic/nationality/race clues wherein both mtDNA and nrY DNA is totally clueless.
EXAMPLE A person's mother's mother's mother was an Irish lady. Same person's father's father's father was an AmerInd guy. Both had children from African descended mates. Their offspring chose African descended mates down the generations up to the subject person.
mtDNA and nrY DNA would conclude our subject is a European-American hybrid having no Africa based descent, ancestry, or parentage.
Autosomal DNA proves this person is overwhelmingly of African descent. Using only uniparentals obscures actual geographic/racial ID of samples. Nonetheless, too many scientific articles rely solely on uniparentals. Is that to intentionally mask what autosomes unbiasedly conclude? Especially when conclusions are based on only one uniparental.
AE was a multi-ethnic society. The state was founded by local southern Egyptian African blacks whose antecedents were Sahro-Sudanese 'refugees' from a drying mid-Holocene Sahra.
AUTOSOMES reveal the strength or dilution of the uniparentals.
MEANWHILE we have autosomes of ruling class New Kingdom mummies. Thuya's CODIS autosomal profile precisely matches moderns living in Sudan and southern Egypt.
'Niger-Congo-Kordofanian' speakers are far closer matches than Levantines.
Thuya's MiniFiler CODIS autosomes from Gad Pusch & Hawass. Moderns' CODIS autosome data from the PopSTR database. With the above sample data anyone can replicate the given results. I invite and encourage any and all to do the work.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: 1879 B.C. mummy ; Someone apparently managed to get his result on Gedmatch and no surprise he's similar to modern copts and overall modern egyptians :
Quite funny to see that the closest people to these ancient samples outside of Egypt are modern day arabs meanwhile afrocentrists call modern day egyptians "arabs" in order to depict them as invader.
.
The official name of Egypt is ‘Arab Republic of Egypt’. Are "afrocentrists (sic)" responsible for that, o black-baiter?
posted
How does this work? I don't get how someone would be able to extract his autosomal ancestry from his mtDNA? Nevertheless these results aren't that crazy by any means.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Of course nothing's crazy about Drosou2018. I included a link to their main article which shows how the mother's M1a1 was concluded even without the supplementary material.
I only question the supposed autosome authenticity claimed in the OP as no valid peer reviewed article I can find indicates any such raw data exists. Nor are the compilers of the OP charts named nor any link given vindicating it's the work of anyone who can demonstrate the validity of their data and methodology analysing such 'contrived' data.
SlimJim', you're correct. Autosomes can't be derived from either * mtDNA or * nrY/MSY chromosome DNA. Those are the uniparentals (ie coming from one parent only).
Uniparentals can only show a very small part of any individual's geo-biological heritage. Autosomes are biparental chromosome data recombined anew each and every generation from both a person's mother and father without regard to any mtDNA, X chromosome DNA, or Y chromosome DNA.
BTW As a writer I constantly tweak my posts for spelling, grammar, and clarity. Consequently it may be an hour or two after my post's timestamp before the final composition is ready and so the links and most of my text were not there @ Slim Jim's timestamp.
I need to go back to PLEASE DON'T REPLY - POST STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION headsup until the final form is ready. Sorry.
~ Old, slow (ie deliberate), and careful Tukuler ~
===========================
The haplotypes included ancestral muta- tions at positions 489 T → C, 10,398A → G, 10,400C → T and 15,043G → A, which define macrohaplogroup M (Winters, 2010). The M1 branch (Quintana-Muri et al., 1999) was further characterized by a transversion at position 12,950A → C and four transitions in the coding region at positions 6446G → A, 6680 T → C, 12,403C → T, and 14,110 T → C, as well as three transitions 16,129G → A, 16,189 T → C and 16,249 T → C in the control region (Quintana-Muri et al., 1999). Signature motifs of subclade M1a1 are the 3705G → A, 12,346C → T and 16,359 T → C transitions (Gonzalez et al., 2007). To validate our results we considered the complexity of the M haplogroup and ex- amined the SNP data with and without recurring mutations found in several branches of haplogroup M (M4, M5, M34) (Sun et al., 2006), private mutations, hotspots, and mutations that are usually found in haplogroups D, L, N, R and U6 (Olivieri et al., 2006; Sun et al., 2006; Gonzalez et al., 2007; Pennarun et al., 2012), such as position 16,223 (Tanaka et al., 2004), and constructed a median-joining network (Supplementary Fig. 1). The network confirms the close proximity be- tween the mtDNA haplotypes of the two mummies and haplogroup M1a1.
Note here mainstream science article citing ES' often maligned Dr Clyde 'Ahmad' Winters. Winters, C., 2010 The African Origin of mtDNA haplogroup M1 Curr. Res. J. Biol. Sci. 6, 380-389
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: How does this work? I don't get how someone would be able to extract his autosomal ancestry from his mtDNA? Nevertheless these results aren't that crazy by any means.
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: How does this work? I don't get how someone would be able to extract his autosomal ancestry from his mtDNA? Nevertheless these results aren't that crazy by any means.
I just reposted the info from here :https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25950-Any-more-ancient-Egyptian-Autosomal-data
And the sample is interesting since as far as I know it's the oldest ancient egyptian autosomal result we have and he's similar to the abusir samples + the two egyptian from lebanon and roman england + modern copts therefore further reinforcing to idea of strong continuity in the region since at least the middle kingdom ; it's also a sample from Upper Egypt.
People pushing the idea of AEs looking like mixed sudanese or eritrean/ethiopians have to stop there is nothing to support this.
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: How does this work? I don't get how someone would be able to extract his autosomal ancestry from his mtDNA? Nevertheless these results aren't that crazy by any means.
I just reposted the info from here :https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25950-Any-more-ancient-Egyptian-Autosomal-data
And the sample is interesting since as far as I know it's the oldest ancient egyptian autosomal result we have and he's similar to the abusir samples + the two egyptian from lebanon and roman england + modern copts therefore further reinforcing to idea of strong continuity in the region since at least the middle kingdom ; it's also a sample from Upper Egypt.
People pushing the idea of AEs looking like mixed sudanese or eritrean/ethiopians have to stop there is nothing to support this.
This supposed autosomal DNA has little bearing on whether early Upper Egyptians looked like East Africans or not. This doesn't change over a century of craniometric data.
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: How does this work? I don't get how someone would be able to extract his autosomal ancestry from his mtDNA? Nevertheless these results aren't that crazy by any means.
I just reposted the info from here :https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25950-Any-more-ancient-Egyptian-Autosomal-data
And the sample is interesting since as far as I know it's the oldest ancient egyptian autosomal result we have and he's similar to the abusir samples + the two egyptian from lebanon and roman england + modern copts therefore further reinforcing to idea of strong continuity in the region since at least the middle kingdom ; it's also a sample from Upper Egypt.
People pushing the idea of AEs looking like mixed sudanese or eritrean/ethiopians have to stop there is nothing to support this.
This supposed autosomal DNA has little bearing on whether early Upper Egyptians looked like East Africans or not. This doesn't change over a century of craniometric data.
So a upper egyptian from the middle kingdom being similar to all the egyptian samples whether modern or ancient is a coincidence ? I supposed it's the hyksos right ? ...
Craniometric datas also demonstrate that modern upper egyptians already show affinities with east africans and genetic datas will always be more reliable than craniometric data. You have to be irrational to believe that such a northern population would be no different from ethiopians be reasonable pls.
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quote:Originally posted by Antalas: [QB] 1879 B.C. mummy ; Someone apparently managed to get his result on Gedmatch and no surprise he's similar to modern copts and overall modern egyptians :
According to Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008), around 45% of Copts in Sudan carry the haplogroup J. The remainder mainly belong to the E1b1b clade (21%).
My guess is that one of these brothers was of Y group E1b1b, that is the Natufian group
quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: How does this work? I don't get how someone would be able to extract his autosomal ancestry from his mtDNA? Nevertheless these results aren't that crazy by any means.
I just reposted the info from here :https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25950-Any-more-ancient-Egyptian-Autosomal-data
And the sample is interesting since as far as I know it's the oldest ancient egyptian autosomal result we have and he's similar to the abusir samples + the two egyptian from lebanon and roman england + modern copts therefore further reinforcing to idea of strong continuity in the region since at least the middle kingdom ; it's also a sample from Upper Egypt.
People pushing the idea of AEs looking like mixed sudanese or eritrean/ethiopians have to stop there is nothing to support this.
This supposed autosomal DNA has little bearing on whether early Upper Egyptians looked like East Africans or not. This doesn't change over a century of craniometric data.
So a upper egyptian from the middle kingdom being similar to all the egyptian samples whether modern or ancient is a coincidence ? I supposed it's the hyksos right ? ...
Craniometric datas also demonstrate that modern upper egyptians already show affinities with east africans and genetic datas will always be more reliable than craniometric data. You have to be irrational to believe that such a northern population would be no different from ethiopians be reasonable pls.
Go back and read my posts, you do nothing but strawman, when we spoke about Horners and Egyptians clustering on the basis of craniometrics I explicitly said its only partially due to a genetic relationship, somehow you interpreted what I've said as Ethiopians are "no different" to ancient Egyptians, IDEK why you brought up pheotype, I don't see the relevance here.
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quote:Originally posted by SlimJim: Go back and read my posts, you do nothing but strawman, when we spoke about Horners and Egyptians clustering on the basis of craniometrics I explicitly said its only partially due to a genetic relationship, somehow you interpreted what I've said as Ethiopians are "no different" to ancient Egyptians, IDEK why you brought up pheotype, I don't see the relevance here. [/QB]
And no one denied this but your post made it seems like "it doesn't prove upper egyptians didn't look like horners" anyway the more data we get and the more it reinforces the idea of a strong continuity in the region.
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
The title of this thread is a lie and a farce perpetuated on the unknowing and gullible. NO AUTOSOMES FROM THIS MUMMY OR HIS BROTHER EXIST.
Else reproduce directly from the standard peer review journal article publishing them by name and length and detailing how they were recovered as Pusch Gad and Hawass did for two sets of royal New Kingdom mummies, the Amarna and the Ramesside.
The only kits that can extract aDNA STRs and identify the CODIS STR autosomes are only sold by their manufacturer to ascertain family relationship. Thus there must be at least two mummies sampled. But no autosomes of the brothers or their mother are noted and published anywhere I seek. Who has any such links to share? Please do, thank you.
If there's no such data nor methodology under the name of a credentialed professional geneticist and team then why is thread allowed to stand open misleading the readership and making a mockery of an ES that once required accountability to post in EGYPTOLOGY forum.
See earlier post using the peer review published autosomes CFSPO1 D2S1338 D7S820 D13S317 D16S539 D18S51 D21S11 FGA that establish current Sudan and south Egypt affinities for Thuya ancestress of the Amarna royal lineage.
posted
The kinship of two 12th Dynasty mummies revealed by ancient DNA sequencing Konstantina Drosou, Campbell Price and Terence A. Brown SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Wha ... ? ? ?
I posted about Drosou twice already.
Her team extracted Y chromosome SNPs and mtDNA sequences.
Everybody knows Y chromosome SNPs can not be autosomes and I've demonstrated how much information gets lost generation by generation when sex chromosomes and/or mtDNA only are relied on. They only show DEEP ANCESTRY going back to the founder of a lineage, as much as 10's of thousands of years ago and only indicate a current geo-local possibility needing non-sex autosome confirmation.
Please DO NOT post blind links to irrelevant data.
Please DO post what was asked for the retrieved autosome loci names and allele lengths. Be sure to include the raw data's page number or chart ID if not an actual image from the peer reviewed article itself. Link to raw data's database preferred where (authorized) users can download and process the data that professional geneticists make available.
Consider the jump bar raised or the limbo stick lowered.
No time to debate well known facts. I educate, correcting obvious ignorance of the science.
Each parent contributes one chromosome to each pair so that offspring get half of their chromosomes from their mother and half from their father.
Chromosome - Genome.gov
For the final time Y SNPs are not autosomes. Those PREVIOUSLY LISTED STRs are one minimum standard set used by government agencies and courts in ascertaining direct geographic-population lineal affiliations, A.K.A. race by continent and region.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The kinship of two 12th Dynasty mummies revealed by ancient DNA sequencing Konstantina Drosou, Campbell Price and Terence A. Brown SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION
Yes the sex chromosome and mtDNA info is precious but it's biased prejudiced bigotted and UNETHICAL to post nry SNP processed data for the one preferred light skinned mummy while neglecting his dark skinned brother's Y SNPs.
Stacked deck GIGO
Had one Helluva time finding that image.
GOOGLE returned zilch for site:egyptsearch.com "stacked deck" tukuler.
ES internal search engine returned two hits for 'stacked deck' in Egyptology forum.
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