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Author Topic: Theban mummy "more genetically similar to Europeans than to modern-day Egyptians"
Ase
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quote:
It took 2,600 years to crack the case, but Egyptologists have finally determined how a curly haired, elite woman from ancient Thebes met her untimely end.

The 20-something-year-old Takabuti was murdered in a violent knife attack, researchers announced today (Jan. 27), on the 185th anniversary of the mummy's original unwrapping, in 1835, according to a statement from The University of Manchester in England.

An analysis of Takabuti's mummified remains revealed more of her secrets. She had two rare conditions; an extra tooth (33 instead of 32), and an extra vertebra, the researchers said.


.....


"There is a rich history of testing Takabuti since she was first unwrapped in Belfast in 1835," Greer Ramsey, curator of archaeology at National Museums Northern Ireland, said in a statement. In recent years, Takabuti has undergone scans with X-rays and CT (computed tomography), hair analysis, and radiocarbon dating, the latter of which showed that she lived around 660 B.C., at the end of the 25th dynasty.

.....


The DNA analysis showed that Takabuti was more genetically similar to Europeans than to modern-day Egyptians, the researchers said.

The CT scans revealed that her heart, which hadn't been located until now, was intact and perfectly preserved. These scans also disclosed her violent death: Wound marks showed that Takabuti had been stabbed in her upper back, near her left shoulder.

"It is frequently commented that she looks very peaceful lying within her coffin, but now we know that her final moments were anything but and that she died at the hand of another," Eileen Murphy, a bioarchaeologist at Queen's University Belfast's School of Natural and Built Environment, said in the statement."


Source: https://www.livescience.com/egypt-mummy-murdered-with-knife.html
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the lioness,
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Takabuti
https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3843/14243854938_d180245a29_b.jpg

______________________________________

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/shocking-truth-behind-takabutis-death-revealed/

University of Manchester

27January2020
Shocking truth behind Takabuti’s death revealed

Geneticist Dr Konstantina Drosou said “Takabuti’s genetic footprint H4a1 is relatively rare as it has not been found to my knowledge in any ancient or modern Egyptian population. My results agree with previous studies about ancient Egyptians being more genetically similar to Europeans than modern day Arabs.”

.
_______________________
I think these "more similar to"statements are unnecessary and simplistic.

____________________________

wikipedia

Takabuti was a married woman who reached an age of between twenty and thirty years. She lived in the Egyptian city of Thebes at the end of the Twenty-fifth Dynasty of Egypt. Her mummified body and mummy case are in the Ulster Museum, Belfast.[1] The coffin was opened and the mummy unrolled on 27 January 1835 in Belfast Natural History Society’s museum at College Square North. Edward Hincks, a leading Egyptologist from Ireland was present and deciphered the Egyptian hieroglyphs which revealed that she was mistress of a great house. Her mother’s name was Taseniric and her father was a priest of Amun. She was buried in a cemetery west of Thebes. It has been suggested that Takabuti was murdered due to knife wounds found on her body

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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Once again Media Outlets have run wild with Click-bait sensationalism

https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/mummy?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

quote:
The news stories also announced that Takabuti’s DNA suggested her ancestry was closer to modern Europeans than Arabs. This last finding stands out for many reasons. For one thing, when we look at the details of the claim, it begins to fall apart. The geneticist involved in the study (Konstantina Drosou of the University of Manchester) refers to the mummy’s “genetic footprint,” H4a1, a reference to a specific mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) ancestry or haplogroup. Yet mitochondrial DNA represents just a single ancestral lineage — a single data point — among all of the tens of thousands for any individual. Mitochondrial DNA is passed along from mother to child. This means that, as a pointer to distant ancestry, it points to the genes of a single female ancestor out of many. For instance, take any person living today and trace their ancestry back 500 years. They would have had tens if not hundreds of thousands of ancestors living at that time. Mitochondrial DNA analysis, if successful, will identify the genes of just one of those tens of thousands of people. It is a huge leap to move from a single lineage to broad conclusions about ancestry being “European” or “Arab,” especially when these terms are used as monolithic ancestral groups — failing to take into account movements of individuals and groups throughout the last few thousand years.

That is not the only problem. Proving the European ancestry of ancient Egyptians — particularly of Egyptian royalty — has been a running goal of research on mummies for some 200 years. A century or two ago it was determined by measuring skulls and comparing physical features; now it is done through ancient DNA (aDNA). Throughout all of this, the methods have been scientifically questionable. Problems with aDNA studies are legion: small sample sizes, broad claims made from individual data points, and (not surprisingly) contradictory results. The failures of past race science should give researchers pause in the present, to consider that our current assumptions might also be flawed and troubled. And researchers should stop and ask why this question of European ancestry continues to be such a focus of primarily European research on mummies. After 200 years, the public would be forgiven for thinking that researchers really want ancient Egyptians to have been European, or even that researchers think Africans would not have been capable of producing the great monuments of the Egyptian past.

quote:
In a statement provided to Hyperallergic, the National Museums Northern Ireland, the organization that includes the Ulster Museum, wrote, “The museum takes its responsibility over the care of Takabuti very seriously, prioritising respect, sensitivity and ethical alignment.” The organization continued to say, “The current genetic results are part of a wider project that involves the museum, academics and Egyptologists.”

“The preliminary genetic analysis shows that Takabuti’s ancestors may not have always lived in Egypt,” the statement added. “We believe they confirm how diverse and complex Egyptian society was at the time. We do not suggest Takabuti was white and the evidence we have does not support such a conclusion. She was one person in a culturally diverse society.”


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the lioness,
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.

She lived in the Egyptian city of Thebes at the end of the Twenty-fifth Dynasty


.

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Djehuti
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I find it funny how these researchers are so keen in finding Eurasian especially specifically European lineages in Egyptian remains yet have nothing to say about the ancient African ancestry found in modern Europeans much less the fact that no Greek royals or nobles have yet to be DNA tested for such ancestry.

And as Lioness pointed out above, this lady dates from the Late Period of dynastic history similar to the Abusir el-Melek remains. Again, why aren't mummies from earlier periods such as the Pyramid era being tested?

By the way, isn't mtDNA hg H a significant clade among some Berbers especially Tuareg?

--------------------
Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan.

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Forty2Tribes
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
I find it funny how these researchers are so keen in finding Eurasian especially specifically European lineages in Egyptian remains yet have nothing to say about the ancient African ancestry found in modern Europeans much less the fact that no Greek royals or nobles have yet to be DNA tested for such ancestry.

And as Lioness pointed out above, this lady dates from the Late Period of dynastic history similar to the Abusir el-Melek remains. Again, why aren't mummies from earlier periods such as the Pyramid era being tested?

By the way, isn't mtDNA hg H a significant clade among some Berbers especially Tuareg?

Like M1 H1 is hella African. The other Hs tend to be more European.

H4 is interesting. Look what Wikipedia has to say about it.

quote:
H4, H7 and H13
These H4, H7 and H13 subhaplogroups are present in both Europe and West Asia; the H13 subclade is also found in the Caucasus; H13c was found in a 9,700 year old sample in Mesolithic Georgia.[36] They are quite rare.[21] H4 is often found in the Iberian peninsula,[34] Britain and Ireland.

H4 and H13, along with H2 account for 42% of the hg H lineages in Egypt.[37]

Its always the number 42.

What Eupedia has on H4a1.

quote:
H4 was found in Neolithic Spain and is found today among both the Basques and the Sardinians, two populations with a high percentage of mixed Mesolithic and Neolithic European ancestry. However H4 was never found among the early Neolithic farmers from the Near East or South-East of Europe.
Interesting...

quote:
H4: found especially in central and western Europe, but also in the Near East and Caucasus
H4a: found in the Neolithic Cardium Pottery culture in Portugal and Spain, and in Bronze Age Latvia

This post makes it seem rare but more common in ancient times
https://anthrogenica.com/archive/index.php/t-4742.html

quote:
Although mtDNA haplogroup H4 is not very frequent today, it has shown up nicely in Ancient DNA from two sites in Germany across three major archaeological cultures. As an aside, this also happens to be my mtDNA. The samples are as follows:

Culture: Corded Ware
Country: Germany
Site: Quedlinburg [QUEXII 1]
Date: 2300-2130 BC
mtDNA: H4a1

Culture: Bell Beaker?
Country: Germany
Site: Quedlinburg [QUEXII 2]
Date: 2050-1940 BC
mtDNA: H4a1

Culture: Unetice
Country: Germany
Site: Eulau [EUL 41]
Date: 2200-1550 BC
mtDNA: H4a1a1a2

Culture: Unetice
Country: Germany
Site: Eulau [EUL 41]
Date: 2115-1966 BC
mtDNA: H4a1a1

quote:
The new total list of H4 ancient DNA samples to date. If anyone has any additional ones, please add to the list:

Sample: H3C 6
mtDNA: H4a1a
Culture: Cardial Pottery Culture
Date: 5360-5310 BC
Location: Cova de l'Or (Alicante), Spain

Sample: F19
mtDNA: H4a1a
Culture: Cardial Pottery Culture
Date: 5310-5220 BC
Location: Galeria da Cisterna, Almonda Cave, Portugal

Sample: I5371
mtDNA: H4a1a2a
Culture: Scotland Neolithic
Date: 4000–3300 BCE
Location: Raschoille Cave, Oban, Argyll and Bute, Scotland

Sample: I2510
mtDNA: H4a1
Culture: Balkans Bronze Age
Date: 2906-2710 calBCE
Location: Dzhulyunitsa, Bulgaria

Sample: I6584
mtDNA: H4a1a+195
Culture: Bell Beaker
Date: 2500–2000 BCE
Location: Humanejos, Madrid, Spain

Sample: QUEXII 1
mtDNA: H4a1
Culture: Corded Ware
Date: 2300-2130 BC
Location: Quedlinburg, Germany

Sample: I4945
mtDNA: H4a1c
Culture: Bell Beaker
Date: 2291–2144 calBCE (3795±20 BP, PSUAMS-2854)
Location: Prague 8, Kobylisy, Ke Stírce Street, Czech Republic

Sample: I6774
mtDNA: H4a1a1a
Culture: Bell Beaker
Date: 2287–2044 calBCE (3760±30 BP, SUERC-74755)
Location: Ditchling Road, Brighton, Sussex, England

Sample: I0803
mtDNA: H4a1a1a
Culture: Unetice
Date: 2132-1942 calBCE (3650±26 BP, MAMS-22822)
Location: Eulau, Germany

Sample: QUEXII 2
mtDNA: H4a1
Culture: Bell Beaker?
Date: 2050-1940 BC
Location: Quedlinburg, Germany

Sample: I4884
mtDNA: H4a1a1a
Culture: Czech Early Bronze Age
Date: 1882–1745 calBCE (3480±20 BP, PSUAMS-2842)
Location: Prague 8, Kobylisy, Ke Stírce Street, Czech Republic

Sample: Turlojiske3
mtDNA: H4a1a1a3
Culture: Baltic Bronze Age
Date: 1010-800 cal BCE
Location: Lithuania Turlojiškė II

Seeing how H4 is more common than H1 in modern Egypt it could have originated there. This isn't the first time we have seen connections to the Bell Beaker culture. Ramses III had STRs that were common with Orkney Islanders.
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Djehuti
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^ The H clade in general has its origin in West Eurasia considering both its highest frequency as well as diversity occurs there. H1 may very well have developed in Africa via founder effect by H* carrying female migrants but the clade originated in Eurasia. The same can be said about hg U even though U6 developed in the Maghreb.

That said, hg M1 is different in that it may not be derived from M* but rather L3 which is African OR if it did split off from M* it did so during the initial Out-of-Africa migration. I believe this to be the same case for hg N1 as well.

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Forty2Tribes
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ The H clade in general has its origin in West Eurasia considering both its highest frequency as well as diversity occurs there. H1 may very well have developed in Africa via founder effect by H* carrying female migrants but the clade originated in Eurasia. The same can be said about hg U even though U6 developed in the Maghreb.

That said, hg M1 is different in that it may not be derived from M* but rather L3 which is African OR if it did split off from M* it did so during the initial Out-of-Africa migration. I believe this to be the same case for hg N1 as well.

Diversity and frequency can be poor indicators of origin. And I'm not so sure about diversity.

H* could have developed in Africa and still had more downstream diversity and a higher frequency in locations, like Western Europe that had far less competition than inner Africa. It would have left a fat early branch in North Africa like you see with H1 and sparse later branches that may or may not indicate back migration. H*'s ancestor HV and HV's ancestors back to N have a similar pattern. In that sense, H1 is similar to M1. Both are fat early branches of lineages that became more frequent and more diverse outside of Africa. Again I'm not sure about diversity because H1 is so fat compared to the Hs that blew up in Europe. That said, I would be surprised if both H* and M* didn't originate in ancient Africa.

It does't make sense for H* to be in Europe with damn near zero genetic competition then move to Africa and blow up.

 -

Notice how fat H1 is compared to the rest of H
and that H4 is relatively early.

Keep in mind that the people who are most ancestral to Europeans are

 -

It makes more sense for H to develop near the fat branch and blow up both in diversity and frequency in no womans land.

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the lioness,
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Djehuti
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quote:
Originally posted by Forty2Tribes:

Diversity and frequency can be poor indicators of origin. And I'm not so sure about diversity.

Poor indicators since when? While each factor by itself maybe a poor indicator, together they give a high probability of geographic origin for a haplogroup which is amplified with ancient samples from earlier times.

The only reason why mainstream Western experts have conceded on E-M215 (E1b1b) being of African origin was because both frequency and diversity in sub-Sahara is too high and samples from ancient remains both in Africa and Eurasia show the same results.

quote:
H* could have developed in Africa and still had more downstream diversity and a higher frequency in locations, like Western Europe that had far less competition than inner Africa. It would have left a fat early branch in North Africa like you see with H1 and sparse later branches that may or may not indicate back migration. H*'s ancestor HV and HV's ancestors back to N have a similar pattern. In that sense, H1 is similar to M1. Both are fat early branches of lineages that became more frequent and more diverse outside of Africa. Again I'm not sure about diversity because H1 is so fat compared to the Hs that blew up in Europe. That said, I would be surprised if both H* and M* didn't originate in ancient Africa.

It doesn't make sense for H* to be in Europe with damn near zero genetic competition then move to Africa and blow up.

 -

Notice how fat H1 is compared to the rest of H
and that H4 is relatively early.

Keep in mind that the people who are most ancestral to Europeans are

 -

It makes more sense for H to develop near the fat branch and blow up both in diversity and frequency in no womans land.

I never said H* originated in Europe specifically but somewhere in Western Eurasia. Again, the highest diversity and frequency of H subgroups are in Eurasia including undifferentiated H*. Funny how you say diversity is not a good indicator but post a chart showing how "fat" the H1 branch is which means it is diverse. The H1 branch happens to have its highest frequency in North Africa which again indicates that it developed there from H* carriers who moved there from Eurasia likely Southwest Asia as that is where the most H* carriers today exist.

Suffice to say H* is derived from HV which again has its highest frequency in Southwest Asia but a significant frequency in Egypt as well and HV in turn is derived from R0 which equally distributed in both northeast Africa and Arabia and rarer R* is found in Soqotra and parts of the Horn. R in turn is derived from N with N1 being distributed both in Africa and Eurasia and N* specifically in Arabia and northeast Africa so there has been constant flow between Southwest Asia and North Africa.

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Forty2Tribes
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Poor indicators since when? While each factor by itself maybe a poor indicator, together they give a high probability of geographic origin for a haplogroup which is amplified with ancient samples from earlier times.

They are poor when you don't factor ancestral diversity, the founders effect and African competition.

quote:

The only reason why mainstream Western experts have conceded on E-M215 (E1b1b) being of African origin was because both frequency and diversity in sub-Sahara is too high and samples from ancient remains both in Africa and Eurasia show the same results.

Frequency in the genetic heartland of the world carries much more weight than frequency in the sticks.

quote:
I never said H* originated in Europe specifically but somewhere in Western Eurasia. Again, the highest diversity and frequency of H subgroups are in Eurasia including undifferentiated H*. Funny how you say diversity is not a good indicator but post a chart showing how "fat" the H1 branch is which means it is diverse. The H1 branch happens to have its highest frequency in North Africa which again indicates that it developed there from H* carriers who moved there from Eurasia likely Southwest Asia as that is where the most H* carriers today exist.

Suffice to say H* is derived from HV which again has its highest frequency in Southwest Asia but a significant frequency in Egypt as well and HV in turn is derived from R0 which equally distributed in both northeast Africa and Arabia and rarer R* is found in Soqotra and parts of the Horn. R in turn is derived from N with N1 being distributed both in Africa and Eurasia and N* specifically in Arabia and northeast Africa so there has been constant flow between Southwest Asia and North Africa.

I see Western Eurasia as Western Europe else its just West Asia. HV is in the Western Sahel out east to Kenya. Its not terribly infrequent with the competition. When you factor the competition its a different story. Same is true with R and N. Remember Africa has to compete with the beast that is L.

 -

Yet its not like HV and N are killing the game in Europe or west Asia where, by comparison they barely compete with L.This is understandable because HV is small and N is old but R, especially early R is as African as H1 and M1.

I see the same pattern with Y chromosomal F. F seems to be most frequent in India. After that its Egypt. The frequency in Egypt carries more weight because of the competition with E and to a lesser extent, A and J.

I get that Bedouin type people at least traveled from Palestine to Egypt and back for thousand of years if not tens but that doesn't explain the pattern unless you shoehorn it.

You would need an ancestral homeland outside of Africa where you have a combination of high frequency and high overall genetic diversity. There are some exceptions but frequency outside of Africa is the founders effect. It does not explain the unlikely scenario where Asians leave Africa to come back and become both their own ancestors and the ancestors to millions of Africans. Does this seem likely?: Africans left Africa and brought EARLY BRANCHES of mtdna N, R, H and U back to the Green Sahara and the paleo Taforalt that were able to compete with L to where studies have HV as 20% of 40 in Burkina Faso, U6 is the most common lineage in much of NW Africa as is R in east Africa.
Make that make sense. If these branches diversified together and left Africa young it would explain the modern cline, why North Africans are more genetically diverse than Eurasians and the old branch to new ratios.

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Ish Geber
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Interesting thread,

quote:
This is perhaps not surprising since Egypt is situated at the only land gateway between Africa and the Middle East, a region known to have been populated through the centuries by nomadic tribes and rich trading routes. As the record currently stands these are represented by the U and M1a1 haplogroups throughout the first and second millennia BCE, expanded by J2a, R0, T1, T2, HV and I in the first millennium BCE4,5,6,16,17. Superimposed on this are individuals like Takabuti with rare haplogroups, which have not been previously identified in the background.
(Konstantina Drosou, Scientific Reports volume 10, Article number: 17037 (2020), The first reported case of the rare mitochondrial haplotype H4a1 in ancient Egypt)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-74114-9


quote:
The Iron and Classical Ages in the Near East were marked by population expansions carrying cultural transformations that shaped human history, but the genetic impact of these events on the people who lived through them is little-known. Here, we sequenced the whole genomes of 19 individuals who each lived during one of four time periods between 800 BCE and 200 CE in Beirut on the Eastern Mediterranean coast at the center of the ancient world’s great civilizations. We combined these data with published data to traverse eight archaeological periods and observed any genetic changes as they arose.

During the Iron Age (∼1000 BCE), people with Anatolian and South-East European ancestry admixed with people in the Near East. The region was then conquered by the Persians (539 BCE), who facilitated movement exemplified in Beirut by an ancient family with Egyptian-Lebanese admixed members. But the genetic impact at a population level does not appear until the time of Alexander the Great (beginning 330 BCE), when a fusion of Asian and Near Easterner ancestry can be seen, paralleling the cultural fusion that appears in the archaeological records from this period. The Romans then conquered the region (31 BCE) but had little genetic impact over their 600 years of rule. Finally, during the Ottoman rule (beginning 1516 CE), Caucasus-related ancestry penetrated the Near East. Thus, in the past 4,000 years, three limited admixture events detectably impacted the population, complementing the historical records of this culturally complex region dominated by the elite with genetic insights from the general population.

(Marc Haber, A Genetic History of the Near East from an aDNA Time Course Sampling Eight Points in the Past 4,000 Years, Am J Hum Genet. 2020 Jul 2; 107(1): 149–157.)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7332655/

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