"The Tomb of Seti I, Valley of the Kings, Luxor, Egypt : The prisoners of war are shown in the bottom register of the Burial Chamber’s north wall’s east section"
posted
thanks, from the above, this seems to cover it:
quote: SECOND HOUR: Ra's decree of doom The gods "who were at peace" worshipped Ra on earth. On the left side, the creator god Atum was depicted as an aged man leaning heavily on a stick. Four figures, described as "the inert," were lying prostrate at his feet. Twenty more were shown behind Atum with hands tied behind their backs?"the apostates of Ra upon the earth, who have thrust aside the right to invoke evil against him who is in the egg." Horus spoke: "The words of my father Ra are Ma'at against you, I am the son who comes from his father, I am the father who comes from his son.You are fettered and tied, my father has mastery over you. Your evil deeds have turned against you and your doom decreed before the Light. You who have committed sins, your corruptible bodies shall be cut in pieces, your souls shall have no existence, and you shall never see Ra when he journeys in the hidden land. Hail Ra, your enemies are in the place of destruction!"
It's very likely that the prisoners are Egyptians who were rebels against the crown. Not all the enemies of Egypt were foreign. Some were domestic in that certain sepati did not acknowledge the king and were considered rebels.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26543 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
C'mon man. Stop it already. It's very unlikely that the prisoners are Egyptians who were rebels against the crown.
I'm telling you they are certainly an illustration for an AfterDeath holy scripture book like Book of Gates or Am Duat or ... TheLioness is deader on track, excuse the pun. It's purely religious like the Apocalypse/The Book of Revelation or something.
Just view a fuller context of the scene provided by the_Lioness to see the forest composed by the trees. Why confuse yourself and others? Don't speculate, open the gate.
The Book of Gates The Gate of Sau Smyt 2nd Hour Scene 8
posted
Note, 3rd post description updated to Second Hour description (I had Eighth before)
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Who are these "prisoners of war" at Seti I ??
THE APOSTATES OF RA !!
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Yes, they are the Apostates of Ra as in the suggested reading
Bojana Mojsov The Ancient Egyptian Underworld in the Tomb of Sety I: Sacred Books of Eternal Life The Massachusetts Review, Inc Vol. 42, No. 4, Egypt (Winter, 2001/2002), pp. 489-506 (18 pages)
which you did not hold yourself above actually referencing instead of making shis up.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Just like I told y'all to learn some Hieroglyphs and some minimal AEL Grammar but some ya dint lissen I'm tellin you now to gitcha selves familiar
please switch pictures in your post quoting my pic from the OP I have updated the caption leaving out "war". That was a Flicker title but I'm not sure the source. It seems to be inaccurate, that these are not life enemies but afterlife mythological foes
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Why go an switch up after the fact? To make it look like you showed me where the precise text came from. You really can't see the dishonesty in that?
You aughta be proud of the stumblings that led you to stand upright and walk.
Why make pretend you never crawled before you walked?
Don't matter to me I learned long ago to save what you originally post cos you're bound to go back and alter the fact
I though it was skippy you took a stab at an appropriate text that was damn good for an illiterate unfamiliar with AfterDeath scriptures. Hell, it's what pointed me to the exact scripture and saved me searching through a dozen other books!
Sheesh, I evolved. I didn't burst full grown from Zeus' split skull like wise Athena and I ain't ashamed of it neither.
I ask for precisions if I'm in error. They track my growth. That's honesty. I don't go back and cover my tracks.
They show that "Who are my teachers? All of them!"
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: [QB] Why go an switch up after the fact? To make it look like you showed me where the precise text came from. You really can't see the dishonesty in that?
zero dishonesty
In fact more honesty in switching and talking about in thread my error
In my opinion the forum should not be like a court record of a debate game having priority over what other viewers see
Thus if I post something with a misleading caption I don't that misleading people and potentially being copied into other websites.
This scene from Seti had a prisoners of war caption on Flicker which I now realize is misleading and by me adding that to the caption I was unwittingly spreading disinformation misleading people that there supposedly was a scene in Egyptian art easily construed as fellow real life faction Egyptians being captured by a king. That could have happened but that doesn't mean they depicted it in art. I would prefer misinformation not to spread then to have some record of whose right and whose wrong and my wrongness I have come in here and stated so it's not a secret. Once there's a wrong caption somebody might not read a whole thread to notice it's wrong or they might not care and prefer what the wrong caption said and put it somewhere else and argue some wrong point about it I also think it is good for many pictures to have accurate captions then to copied without a caption and misinterpreted, for since someone could take this photo if it had no a caption and easily say it was from some other tomb, not Seti They can always make a fake caption but most people don't do that or they right a separate text
Now we have a non-controversial fact based caption, the tomb location of the scene and chamber as well as photo credit
Similar I also stated another error that my description of it as 8th hour was wrong and it's really 2nd hour I don't want someone else reading this thread thinking that the 8th hour is the right description and then spreading disinformation
I think Egyptsearch should be a place where errors are corrected and not where people have to read a multipage thread to figure out (if they can) that something presented as fact in a post turns out to be wrong or speculation. Who was right , who was wrong, by people posting anonymously I don't care about, that's an ego trip
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Yes,I see now.
Why accept C on an exam when after learning the right answers to questions I got wrong I can resubmit the test with all the correct answers and I should get an A as if I originally knew what in fact I knew not.
That's worse than cheating. It's the epitome of lying. At the very least it's plagiarism.
Who else does this other than you? Who else goes and blanks out their whole post a day or two later to hide what was in it other than you?
posted
this is the problem, instead of Egypt search being a place where people can find accurate information some people think they are giving an "exam" to other people. That is their priority
I don't give a damn about an exam, that is not why I post
I post to try to present accurate information
I don't care about the competitiveness of anonymous people
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Such a twit to get all worked up over a simple exam/test analogy.
This is the chain of events that solved the precise ID of the prisoners.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Years of Book of Gates and other 19th Dyn AfterDeath scriptures allowed me assurance the OP img was of AfterDeath beings.
Were it not for this excellent, but no bullseye, guess by you who have no AfterDeath Scripture background and who is also illiterate in hieroglyphs and any era AEL grammar, I wouldn't've immediately began searching The Book of Gates instead of some other scripture for the precise ID of the prisoners of the OP.
And this is what it now comes down to -- spewed raw spite toward me bred of what, jealousy?
Back tracking cover up hides the process that allowed me to precisely ID the prisoners and supply the Gate of Sau Smyt passage by making it appear vignette 8 was known all along which it was not.
.=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I already said this days ago
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Why go an switch up after the fact? To make it look like you showed me where the precise text came from. You really can't see the dishonesty in that?
You aughta be proud of the stumblings that led you to stand upright and walk.
Why make pretend you never crawled before you walked?
Don't matter to me I learned long ago to save what you originally post cos you're bound to go back and alter the fact
Sheesh, I evolved. I didn't burst full grown from Zeus' split skull like wise Athena and I ain't ashamed of it neither.
I ask for precisions if I'm in error. They track my growth. That's honesty. I don't go back and cover my tracks.
They show that "Who are my teachers? All of them!"
.
Without my contributions to this thread you'd still be barking up the live-prisoner/enemies-of-state wrong tree.
No matter what you do week after week for some people --including guidance to shortcuts to pick up on reading hieroglyphs== it will never allay their deep down abiding underlying personal contempt for you
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: thanks, from the above, this seems to cover it:
quote: SECOND HOUR: Ra's decree of doom The gods "who were at peace" worshipped Ra on earth. On the left side, the creator god Atum was depicted as an aged man leaning heavily on a stick. Four figures, described as "the inert," were lying prostrate at his feet. Twenty more were shown behind Atum with hands tied behind their backs?"the apostates of Ra upon the earth, who have thrust aside the right to invoke evil against him who is in the egg." Horus spoke: "The words of my father Ra are Ma'at against you, I am the son who comes from his father, I am the father who comes from his son.You are fettered and tied, my father has mastery over you. Your evil deeds have turned against you and your doom decreed before the Light. You who have committed sins, your corruptible bodies shall be cut in pieces, your souls shall have no existence, and you shall never see Ra when he journeys in the hidden land. Hail Ra, your enemies are in the place of destruction!"
[/QB]
Here we have me thanking Tukuler after his post, acknowledging he had a clarifying reference and thanking him
and he seems to think he wrote any of this stuff, accusing me of plagiarism, ridiculous, this after thanking him (mental off-ness). This is why xyyman used to call him "Great Sage", to feed the massive ego of this anonymous person who doesn't use their real name yet yearns for prestige from writing forum posts as opposed to writing his own articles or books
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Note, 3rd post description updated to Second Hour description (I had Eighth before)
He never corrected me directly when I had the 8th hour up but when he posted 2nd hour later (probably after further investigation) I realized 8th hour was wrong, credit Great Sage for indicating 2nd hour
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
@Djehuti
please switch pictures in your post quoting my pic from the OP I have updated the caption leaving out "war". That was a Flicker title but I'm not sure the source. It seems to be inaccurate, that these are not life enemies but afterlife mythological foes
so why didn't I leave my post of the 8th hour description and why am I asking @Djehuti to change to the updated picture that excludes the inaccurate Flicker description "prisoners of war"
It's for the sake of new and future readers of this thread. I don't want them getting confused thinking these are prisoners of war because of a picture with a captions inaccurately saying that And I don't want them getting confused about it being described by the 8th hour when it's actually the 2nd and then try to figure out all Tukulers unfriendly to the layman cryptic remarks, technical talk and withholdings to test people
These things are not always obvious
quote:Originally posted by the Djehuti:
It's very likely that the prisoners are Egyptians who were rebels against the crown. Not all the enemies of Egypt were foreign. Some were domestic in that certain sepati did not acknowledge the king and were considered rebels.
^ a very knowledgeable poster here making the same assumption I did and as the caption on Flicker (and that caption might even have come from a legit-ish source although still incorrect)
Could they be construed as Prisoners of a spiritual war? yes but I would say that is a stretch and many people might not realize the spiritual element when they are bound up, looking like real human captives, of which there are many depicted in other scene in Egyptian art
It is not rudimentary Medu Neter reading to figure this out reading directly from the wall to be certain look at the quotes used from books
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
They are after death beings.
Check one of the books detailing the Sun's route after dark.
second post reply to the OP, he's not jumping in to say "no, these are spiritual foes I just read the gylphs on the wall" He references a article first thing despite having some unmeasured ability to read hieroglyphs
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
2nd post to thread before anybody makes any guess instructs
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: They are after death beings.
Check one of the books detailing the Sun's route after dark.
and that's a fact. You'd've remained totally clueless stumbling in the dark, the blind being led by the blind.
So shut up about it already.
but you'll go on trying to salve your ego and villainize me without whom this thread'd still be wavering with unsupported speculation as to the actual identity of the Apostates of Ra.
What? You don't think everybody sees clear through you and your caterwauling claptrap?
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
You're so full of spite hatred jealousy and contempt you can't see I said without that which you sought to coverup
saved me time pouring over several AfterDeath scriptures instead of following your Book of Gates lead.
WTF is wrong with you? You're all twisted up in evil negative ad hominem thoughts. You can never besmirch my studies on this going back to collaborating with Manu Ampim back some 20 years ago before I even was invited to join EgyptSearch.
ES has numerous threads with me expounding on BG4.5.30 almost all of which include me schooling you. Too many members remember and gained from those threads. You can only hoodwink unknowing newbies who haven't used the archive.
...itch please. Stop acting like all that never happened.
But no. You will continue your stark raving madness digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hell pit of your own making
posted
You are very needy
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
It's over and done. Neither of the clueless duo posted this definitive answer.
The Book of Gates The Gate of Sau Smyt 2nd Hour Scene 8
Without that you could've never posted your coverup which tee totally effed up the sequence of discovery.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: thanks, from the above, this seems to cover it:
quote: SECOND HOUR: Ra's decree of doom The gods "who were at peace" worshipped Ra on earth. On the left side, the creator god Atum was depicted as an aged man leaning heavily on a stick. Four figures, described as "the inert," were lying prostrate at his feet. Twenty more were shown behind Atum with hands tied behind their backs?"the apostates of Ra upon the earth, who have thrust aside the right to invoke evil against him who is in the egg." Horus spoke: "The words of my father Ra are Ma'at against you, I am the son who comes from his father, I am the father who comes from his son.You are fettered and tied, my father has mastery over you. Your evil deeds have turned against you and your doom decreed before the Light. You who have committed sins, your corruptible bodies shall be cut in pieces, your souls shall have no existence, and you shall never see Ra when he journeys in the hidden land. Hail Ra, your enemies are in the place of destruction!"
.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
What more is there to say about the formerly unidentified prisoners? What's only left is your off topic continuing smear campaign (link) against myself.
So who's needy indeedy?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: You are very needy
posted
It's a pattern with this dude, he acts nice, gets your guard down and then attacks and tries to publicly humiliate people. I've even noticed lately him condescending on his buddy Djehuti. Somethings a bit off with him. It's like with certain cats , they are purring and nice and then all of the sudden without warning claw or bite
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I wasn't invited here in November 2004 to make buddies. There's no one here I haven't countered at some time or other over points of interdisciplinary Africana. Nor do I pussyfoot around when I do. I don't pretend to diplomacy. I go straight at an opponent's slip ups regardless of tone of any previous exchanges. I expect no less toward myself and I do request precisions and tender clarity when asked for it if ones feel my style is cryptic. All one need do is ask "Hey man, whacha talkin' 'bout?"
I intentionally write to inspire others to roll up their sleeves and delve deeper into a subject. With any luck they will teach me that which I do not know. You and others have done just that and I accepted it without bitchin' 'bout it.
My goal is accurate quality info about MY continental and diaspora history etc. which have suffered enough at the hands of prejudice and biased ethnocentricisms by non-Africans/non-blacks at least since the invention of physical race anthropology circa the American slaving era and recently by chauvinist self-serving so-called 'Afro'centric essays, articles, youtubes, self-published books etc.
This is no mere hobby as it is for you and other non-Africans/non-blacks and even some of them too. It is my cultural heritage as an African person. I will not stand by and see it misrepresented or sullied.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Is this all you can do? Take readers off the topic onto personality bollocks?
Why not try and read the glyphs as art like I been telling you for some years now? But you laughed and continue to scoff at the fact the art itself is readable.
If you had you could immediately recognize patterns cluing you in on themes like AfterDeath representations and, w/o having to actually read the glyphs as words and sentences, track them down in a book.
No it doesn't come lickety split but after weeks months years and decades of application you'll become a champ.
But no you'd rather flounder with YouTube gurus who can avail you naught and even worse you really rather character assassinate somebody who tried to help you.
WTF is wrong with you? Is your soul so rotted out with jealousy that you must go on and on and on and on with the smear?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: It's a pattern with this dude, he acts nice, gets your guard down and then attacks and tries to publicly humiliate people. I've even noticed lately him condescending on his buddy Djehuti. Somethings a bit off with him. It's like with certain cats , they are purring and nice and then all of the sudden without warning claw or bite
.
A perfectly self-incriminating Freudian slip of a self-description of the cat known as the_Lioness who time and again turns on the hand that feeds it and bites it before proceeding to claw the wretched body apart.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
A smear campaign, also referred to as a smear tactic or simply a smear, is an effort to damage or call into question someone's reputation, by propounding negative propaganda. It makes use of discrediting tactics.
It can be applied to individuals or groups.
. . .
A smear campaign is an intentional, premeditated effort to undermine an individual's or group's reputation, credibility, and character. ... Discrediting tactics are used to discourage people from believing in the figure or supporting their cause, such as the use of damaging quotations.
Smear tactics differ from normal discourse or debate in that they do not bear upon the issues or arguments in question. A smear is a simple attempt to malign a group or an individual with the aim of undermining their credibility.
Smears often consist of ad hominem attacks in the form of unverifiable rumors and distortions, half-truths, or even outright lies; ... Even when the facts behind a smear campaign are demonstrated to lack proper foundation, the tactic is often effective because the target's reputation is tarnished before the truth is known.
Smears are also effective in diverting attention away from the matter in question and onto a specific individual or group. The target of the smear typically must focus on correcting the false information rather than on the original issue.
. . .
... attempting to sway [ ], not by logical argument on given issues, but by personal diatribe that does not directly bear on the matter at hand.
Moral, psychological and legal considerations
Smear campaigns are considered by many to be a low, disingenuous form of discourse; they have been identified as a common weapon of psychopaths, borderlines, and narcissists.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: C'mon man. Stop it already. It's very unlikely that the prisoners are Egyptians who were rebels against the crown.
I'm telling you they are certainly an illustration for an AfterDeath holy scripture book like Book of Gates or Am Duat or ... TheLioness is deader on track, excuse the pun. It's purely religious like the Apocalypse/The Book of Revelation or something.
Just view a fuller context of the scene provided by the_Lioness to see the forest composed by the trees. Why confuse yourself and others? Don't speculate, open the gate.
The Book of Gates The Gate of Sau Smyt 2nd Hour Scene 8
My bad. I just made a quick judgement on the bounded men and not the entire mural as a whole, much less the mdu neter, of which I was only able to make a out a few phrases.
^ something ah, followed by the plurality, then u something, raet pr, nt?? Am I reading this correctly?
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26543 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Imo, it's of little use transliterating the hieroglyphs between those few men but reward of your effort is in the first eight glyphs of this supplied leaf of the bottommost register
Tell ya what. That text is far well above and beyond my pay scale. Recognizing the motif is the only thing set me onto the translation I supplied.
Vygus is about useless for this one. It'd take the Wörtebuch to crack this nut and that would involve even more heavy translation --early 20th century handwritten cursive German script. Hours of work for very little reward. Then again Budge might've been of some help, but still very time consuming.
But honestly why bother unless you're into brain bursters?
It pays to sneak and use shortcuts which is why I strongly advise getting copies of the referenced Wilkinson and Hornung cited in earlier posts.
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