Hi everyone, I'm fairly new to the forum. The last couple of weeks I have been enjoying reading what everyone has to say. Also, giving some of my input here and there. As you might guess, I am married to an Egyptian / Muslim man and VERY happily.
A little of my background...I'm American, age 28. I am a mother of two wonderful girls, ages 8&6 from what you might call my high school sweetheart who turned into an abusive drunk. LOL Previously I was envolved with an Egyptian man who happened to be Coptic Christian. Who, no kidding, turned into a coke addidct. So as you can imagine, either I turn these people into alcoholics or drug users or I happend to choose the wrong men. LOLLLLLL I agree with the latter.
The father of my daughters is athiest, doesn't believe God exists what so ever and jokingly wears 666 as a hat. hmmmm The next was Coptic, and there were many things that I learned that reminded me of the roman cathaloics which i don't agree with. Now, I am married to a Muslim man... Which in FACT, Islam is more simular to my beliefs than what Cathaloics or Coptics here in Egypt Believe.
I BELIEVE... I can pray ANYTIME I feel the need, I ONLY pray to GOD, when I pray to GOD I don't use any other name to give my message. I believe, that Jesus was the closest and most important prophet to GOD. I believe, that Mohamed might possibly have been a prophet in writting but not in actions. Meaning, he was given the gift of writting by GOD, but he was not a prophet figure. I believe that Jesus did die for our sins, but he was not the actual SON of God. I believe that SON in this sence is misinterpeted. I belive that SON is used meaning the closest most dear, made in his image, prophet created by GOD. I also believe that GOD understands that there are many ways to be pulled for us humans on this Earth. HE knows there are many religions and will not punish someone for worshiping HIM under the name of Islam or Christianism, or Judism. GOD knows our intent and will reward us ALL who has a true heart dedicated to his belief.
I hear so many people saying, the BIBLE says this, the QUARAN says this. What about your heart, what does GOD tell you???? Does it REALLY feel right to slander someone else's beliefs????? I know it doesn't me. How can you HATE another religion when they LOVE the SAME GOD as you???????? HOW?????
So in conclusion, I was born into being Christian. I had no choice as a child, I followed my parents, that's what all children are supposed to do. As an adult, I have studied religion, I have studied Islam, have read a CORRECT PRINT of the Quaran. I know the Pilars of Islam, I know how to pray, I know the Shahada. But LISTEN, I am comfortable with my own beliefs, even if they may different than the majoity. I did not convert to Islam because it is a more strict religion, and I enjoy the freedom of MY belief, I follow the heart that GOD created for me. I am happily married to a Muslim man, and I am proud to say that he goes to the mosque to pray. Again, yes i was born into christianism, and my children with my husband with be born into Islam with the choice to be Christian or visa versa. My home provides this choice. YES!!!! I am married to a MUSLIM Man and........ I CHOOSE TO REMAIN CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for reading ~Sarah
Posted by primak (Member # 494) on :
"..HIM under the name of Islam or Christianism, or Judism. GOD knows our intent and will reward us ALL who has a true heart dedicated to his belief..."
May I ask your thoughts on god's intentions regarding humans who are neither muslim, nor christian nor jews? and who worship different gods?
Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
Honestly my thoughts are basically the same. I believe that they also believe in higher judgement and will be rewarded with a true heart. I'm very open minded, and I'm not a religious fanatic. I am capeable understanding, but it is not my place to judge. I will only know answers when I stand before God. Hope that answers ur question. Posted by primak (Member # 494) on :
Yes, thanks - but what if they don't believe in higher judgement..or were never told by anyone that a "higher judgement" existed?
Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by primak: Yes, thanks - but what if they don't believe in higher judgement..or were never told by anyone that a "higher judgement" existed?
Heya, Primak....do you believe in God at all, or the possibility of God?
Posted by Morgan (Member # 6662) on :
AshkiA ...you rock girl, good luck wet your nice egyptian hosbond a lot of mix marrieds works, but it takes 2!!!!!
Posted by primak (Member # 494) on :
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin:
quote:Originally posted by primak: Yes, thanks - but what if they don't believe in higher judgement..or were never told by anyone that a "higher judgement" existed?
Heya, Primak....do you believe in God at all, or the possibility of God?
Hi Snoozin, wasn't talking about myself here, questions are general. As for me, no , I do not believe in god, gods, angels ,djinns and all that nonsense. I believe in humanity.
Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by primak: Hi Snoozin, wasn't talking about myself here, questions are general. As for me, no , I do not believe in god, gods, angels ,djinns and all that nonsense. I believe in humanity.
I know, I was just curious whether you left open the possibility there is a God, that's all.
On a side note, however, a lot of humanity just plain sucks! How do you deal with some of the atrocities we commit?
Posted by primak (Member # 494) on :
without generalizing too much..aren't most of the atrocities commited in the name of the various gods...to a certain extent?
Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by primak: without generalizing too much..aren't most of the atrocities commited in the name of the various gods...to a certain extent?
In your part of the world, maybe. As religious as our (American) religious right can be, religion nowhere near pervades every aspect of life here like it seems to do so in Egypt, and I assume other parts of the Middle East.
In mine, the atrocities I've seen from regular street crime, have nothing to do with God. Like those white guys in Texas dragging a black man to death behind their pickup truck on a rope, until bits of his body were found along the roadside.....or the guy in Oklahoma (I think) who just killed a little girl and tried to cannibalize her.
You could say these things aren't as bad as waging war in the name of religion or subjugating an entire people/culture in the name of religion, because they don't affect anywhere near the same number of people.
I just find all these acts to be without rationale and evil beyond description. How could one human do this to another?
So while I have great respect for various individuals I've met, I don't have much faith in humanity as a whole....
Posted by mike rozier (Member # 10852) on :
God choosed me to be a Christian.
and I can't find anything wrong with his decision to do so...Im in complete agreement!
Posted by primak (Member # 494) on :
These are generally not natural human behaviour, they are isolated cases that happen everywhere in the world..but look at this, it happened yesterday in Iraq : "... In other developments Saturday, according to police and hospital officials:
• Two roadside bombings in Baghdad killed four policemen and wounded five people.
• In four separate shootings in the capital, gunmen killed a garden store owner; a grocer; a taxi driver and his son; and the owner of a glass store.
• Gunmen and Iraqi soldiers fought at a checkpoint west of Baghdad, killing a teacher caught in the crossfire.
• Attackers ambushed the convoy of the office manager of the Diyala police chief south of Baqouba, wounding the colonel and killing five of his guards.
• A former Iraqi army colonel and his nephew also were fatally shot near Baqouba.
• In Baqouba, drive-by shooters killed four policemen and one civilian, while masked gunmen killed four workers and wounded another at a metalworking shop.
• A policeman was shot to death and two officers were wounded north of Tikrit.
• Gunmen stopped a minibus carrying college students from Mosul, killing one of the students.
• A man suspected of belonging to Saddam's former Fedayeen militia was slain west of Mosul.
• The body of a man who had been shot in the chest was found floating in the Euphrates river near Hillah..."
Posted by Morgan (Member # 6662) on :
The Essene Gospel of Peace :
And the others answered: "We all do the laws of Moses, our lawgiver, even as they are written in the holy scriptures."
And Jesus answered: "Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in th e sunbeams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?"
"How may we read the laws of God elsewhere than in the scriptures? Where are they written? Read them to us from there where you see them, for we know nothing else but the scriptures which we have inherited from our forefathers. Tell us the laws of which you speak, that hearing them we may be healed and justified."
Jesus said: "You do not understand the words of life, because you are in death. Darkness darkens your eyes and your ears are stopped with deafness. For I tell you, it profits you not at all that you pore over dead scriptures if by your deeds you deny him who has given you the scriptures.
Posted by Snoozin (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by primak: These are generally not natural human behaviour, they are isolated cases that happen everywhere in the world..but look at this, it happened yesterday in Iraq : "...
I'm not disagreeing with you. I just feel the violence stems from humans themselves, and religion is used merely as a tool/excuse.
Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
Everyone has a choice to be bad or good. Tell me with out laws of the land wouldn't it be chaotic??? Notice that a lot of our laws enforce what is warned by religion ex: stealing?? What about those that are not enforced by law? Cheating.....etc. Religion plays a large roll in society. On the flip side it can also play a roll in war & death. There's no point in argueing over religion you will never win.
Posted by focus683 (Member # 4013) on :
quote:Originally posted by AshkiA: I hear so many people saying, the BIBLE says this, the QUARAN says this. What about your heart, what does GOD tell you???? Does it REALLY feel right to slander someone else's beliefs????? I know it doesn't me. How can you HATE another religion when they LOVE the SAME GOD as you???????? HOW?????
Thank you for reading ~Sarah
Well Ashkia I can't talk about the Bible as i'm Muslim but why do people say the Quran says this and that it's because the Quran is supposed to be God's words so actually it is what God tells me to do to live a good and right life.
Maybe it is the same God in all religions but the difference is that thinking that your Holy book is the right. And because you think it's the right one that contains God's actual words and the followers other books don't believe in it then that means they don't believe in God's actual words. And to not agree with one thing God has said is total blasphemy. For example, there's the main difference between Islam and Christianity in deciding whether Christ was crucified or not. The Quran says he wasn't and it was actually someone else, while the Bible says it was him.
Now what makes you think Islam is a strict religion? I agree that it lately has appeared to be that way, but it's because of this rapidly spreading misconception cause by people not reading enough about the religion. Once they get to know more, they discover how misled they were.
Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
What makes Islam a strict religion is all these people nowadays telling you what to do and more so what not to do. And all this bigotry going around about how to live to be a muslim rightfully. The follow-the-rule and do-as-we-do mentality. And something most westerners have sworn off the overall idea that groupmembers have to control you're behaviour pressing their views on you, as if they have a right to you're life. Who in their right mind want to be dominated like that? And more so, how about respecting the way others live, when you are so rigid and selfrightious about the way anyone should live? Even my coptic orthodox dh living here is subdued to comments and criticisms about his lifestyle ignorantly and selfabsorbed assuming that he is a muslim. Especially on ramadan. So he changed his 'nationality' to others to Turkish. Even small children come to tell me that I am not alowd, as a woman, to smoke. So oldfashioned that is, I would prefer if criticism at all that it is bad for my health!:-)
Demiana
Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
I totally agree Demiana. Since I have been married to a muslim man, I am asked constantly if I will convert, like it is expected of me. I am aware that it is greatly smiled apon if a muslim man marries a christian that she convert. BUT it is not EXPECTED. This is why I started this thread. Anyone can ACT like they are God fearing, but if it isn't truely in their heart they only fool us humans not God. ONCE again I will say it's what is in your heart. You will not go to heaven by acting.
Posted by Egyptlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by primak:
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin:
quote:Originally posted by primak: Yes, thanks - but what if they don't believe in higher judgement..or were never told by anyone that a "higher judgement" existed?
Heya, Primak....do you believe in God at all, or the possibility of God?
Hi Snoozin, wasn't talking about myself here, questions are general. As for me, no , I do not believe in god, gods, angels ,djinns and all that nonsense. I believe in humanity.
Primak, but you are Egyptian, yes?
Posted by Egyptlily (Member # 3567) on :
I am a non-believer. I wish anyone who practice a religion to be fulfilled in life although I see too many times in Egypt that people are just relying on praying instead of taking care and improving things, reaching certain goals etc. I believe you have to find a fair middle and actually combine praying with actions.
Posted by primak (Member # 494) on :
egyptian and atheist...we exist too, quite a number of us out here, you'll be surprised.
Posted by Charm El Feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
good for you.
Posted by Jebran (Member # 10433) on :
Ashkia, everyone is free to believe, but he/she must be responsible for the subsequent. Among all the religions in the world, one of them is true, the rest must be false, simply because two cannot be true in the same time. Is there God or there is no God?? If there is no God, who created the universe in such marvelous system?? They say accidentally, but who started the actions even simple ones?? It is not logical to believe that there is no big and complete mind behind the creations. Now the problem is how to know the correct God among those various ones??, we can simply try to know our creator through his creations. God must be absolute because everything is amazingly organized. Look at the sun, the moon, the earth and our bodies; a piece of meat and blood (our eyes) can see, a piece of meat (our brain) can think, so on. You are right to say that Jesus is not the son of God, logically God is perfect needs no son or family, we need son because we die, we are not complete God does not die, God is the first with no beginning and the last with no end. Trinity is derived from ancient Egypt. God does not need to sacrifice anything to forgive a sin we did not do, God has unlimited power to forgive our own sins with one word. Finally, you are free to believe, we are ordered to respect everyone’s choice, but I have to say, Islam is not a rigid religion, some Moslems are, this is against the will of their religion. It is a very complicated matter, but no one can deny that those criminals who kill innocents in the name of God, were created and supported for political reasons in the beginning to destroy the Soviet Union. They were wanted in the last decade to show an ugly face of Islam and terrify people. They also justify certain actins and wars in the Islamic world, while the real aims are, oil, power, domination and to face new giants in Asia etc. God bless you. Posted by bibo1978 (Member # 9287) on :
quote:Originally posted by AshkiA: I totally agree Demiana. Since I have been married to a muslim man, I am asked constantly if I will convert, like it is expected of me. I am aware that it is greatly smiled apon if a muslim man marries a christian that she convert. BUT it is not EXPECTED. This is why I started this thread. Anyone can ACT like they are God fearing, but if it isn't truely in their heart they only fool us humans not God. ONCE again I will say it's what is in your heart. You will not go to heaven by acting.
"Acts are judged with what in your heart", Mohamed PBUH. I believe that the problem with people is that they think that they got a green card to heavens with some religion, even if they don't follow it actually, others think that a good deed is the way to heavens, can this be the truth ? The truth is bare, and it is not what we want it to be, my argument here is that if you are searching for the bare truth don't follow your own fancy or passion .. and if you think that your fancy and passion is the truth then don't u blame a serial killer for that his passion had led him to what he is doing .. I hope that would help you
Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
I believe what is right for me bibo, I have a very strong christian family background. Yet, my whole point here is that I cannot judge nor control what other people belive. That, my friend is left up to higher judgment.
Posted by mike rozier (Member # 10852) on :
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life....
Posted by bibo1978 (Member # 9287) on :
I am not talking about christianity here if you got what I am talking, there are muslims whom believe that as well .. I believe that good deed can lead you to heavens .. but how?! is it enough
Posted by Josh (Member # 10606) on :
quote:Originally posted by mike rozier: Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life....
Yes indeed Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
I guess we figure out after this life Posted by bibo1978 (Member # 9287) on :
quote:Originally posted by AshkiA: I guess we figure out after this life
for sure we will but may be then it will be too late .. we need to try to figure out before it is too late .. and we need to do this the right way .. away for our delusions, fancy or passion ..
Posted by Jebran (Member # 10433) on :
quote:Originally posted by AshkiA: I guess we figure out after this life
And then, what are you going to say when Jesus Christ, PBH, himself declares, in front of all people, the same declaration said by all prophets,Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac,Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Zachareas, John and Mohamed, PBT, that God is one, has no partner, no son, no dughter, no wife, no father, no mother, God is perfect absolute in majesty and perfection, God is the first with no beginning, the last with no end.What are you going to say when Jesus PBH, answers God, Oh my Lord, I did told them what thy orderd me; worship only God, my Lord and all people's Lord, and after me they became many factions with defernt creeds.??? Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
For Bibo, It is a christian theme to be accepted by God as we are, by grace, we don't have to balance our deeds or struggle over the 'right' way. We just have to accept that he does want us, and that we are his/her children, he did send Jesus to show us and make way. From this acceptance comes the longing (this is where the spirit will encourage us) to do the 'right' things for ourselves, others and especially the glorification of God. Grace. It is possibly a theme in Islam too. It is universal. I do know that it is very difficult to believe to some Christians either. I don't know maybe they did not have parents that loved them unconditionally!:-) So they can't understand.
Demiana
Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
Thanks for the beautifull text from the Essenes Morgan! To me it says it all. But I realise it will be rejected in more rigid Christian circles. It is a gnostic text and not in the bible. But is so to the core of what the gospel tells you.
Demiana
Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
LOL you guys are way too tense. I clearly stated my open mindedness in the opening post Bibo. So why you still try to argue? Anway, I won't argue over religion. That's it.
Posted by Jebran (Member # 10433) on :
quote:Originally posted by AshkiA: LOL you guys are way too tense. I clearly stated my open mindedness in the opening post Bibo. So why you still try to argue? Anway, I won't argue over religion. That's it.
I am sorry to disturb you, We only try to find truth. Be happy , God bless you .
Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
I didn't say anyone was disturbing me either...... I just want people to get the point of the post. The main point is not what I belive or what other's believe. It's the fact that I am one of the christians and choose to remain christian who are married to a muslim man. Which I might add, that most of the women I speak with (and nothing is wrong with either choice) have converted to Islam after marriage. Hope that made sence what i just said lol. I tried.
Posted by Samia (Member # 4691) on :
Ashkia.... you are doing exactly the right thing!! Women that convert to Islam because the feel under pressure from marrying a muslim man are converting for completely the wrong reason!! If, at any time you feel you want to convert to Islam, I feel you'll be doing it for the right reasons.... because you believe Islam is the true religion! I have a friend in England who has been married to an Egyptian man for 30 years... they have 2 grown-up boys, both very good and devout muslims, and my friend converted just 1 year sgo!!!
Posted by Notorious (Member # 11190) on :
Great words Jerban. Very well said.
Posted by Jebran (Member # 10433) on :
quote:Originally posted by Notorious: Great words Jerban. Very well said.
Your first words in ES for me, I appreciate, thank you, good luck Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
oh oh yeah & Samia Great very well said gurl;) LOL Posted by Notorious (Member # 11190) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jebran:
quote:Originally posted by Notorious: Great words Jerban. Very well said.
Your first words in ES for me, I appreciate, thank you, good luck
Ya I actually just registered to comment on wat u said lol but otherwise I don't think I would have. It's all good though. People seem to be nice in here. You take care too buddy Posted by Jebran (Member # 10433) on :
quote:Originally posted by AshkiA: oh oh yeah & Samia Great very well said gurl;) LOL
And what you have said is great too,Ashkia, in fact, you remind me that verse of Coran talking about Christians. Almaida (sura 5) verse 72 ;(Those who believe in the Coran, those who follow the Jewish scrptures, and the Sabians and the CHRISTIANS, - Any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, On them shall be no fear, Nor shall they grieve.) This is the situation of the Christians around Jesus Christ PBH, and this is the situation of Ashkia, May God the almighty bless you. Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
awwwwww I like this one too You know I was just speaking with my husband last night about the difference of the religions. It ended with us both agreeing that we belive in the same thing. LOL Was very nice. He also stressed to me, "you know if we have more children they will be muslim", I told him "yeah it's ok, I knew this from the beginning and I chose to marry you " I honestly don't believe you have to belong to a certian religion to go to heaven etc. OR to be loved by God. We both were very satisfied with our conversation and had a lovely eveing watching movies Posted by bibo1978 (Member # 9287) on :
quote:Originally posted by Demiana: For Bibo, It is a christian theme to be accepted by God as we are, by grace, we don't have to balance our deeds or struggle over the 'right' way. We just have to accept that he does want us, and that we are his/her children, he did send Jesus to show us and make way. From this acceptance comes the longing (this is where the spirit will encourage us) to do the 'right' things for ourselves, others and especially the glorification of God. Grace. It is possibly a theme in Islam too. It is universal. I do know that it is very difficult to believe to some Christians either. I don't know maybe they did not have parents that loved them unconditionally!:-) So they can't understand.
Demiana
I can understand that, I agree that he is the most merciful with us he will bliss us if we acknowledge his existance, but I don't agree with believing that we are from him or that we will go directly to heavens even if we didn't dtruggle with ourselves and try to do the right deeds if we let ourselves to such an illusion then why are we here, wouldn't it be much easier if we all are in heavens already, God had made us but the reason was to worship him, and to do that he doesn't want anything from us rather than just to acknowledge his existance and submit to him .. not vice versa .. by making his existance according to our vision and do whatever we want with the claim that he will eventually forgive us for whatever, we have green card to do whatever because we are christians, muslims or jews .. doesn't this seem to you as we are deluding the truth to our fancy or passion, we need to acknowledge him because simply that is the reason we are here .. if you searcged deep
Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
"by making his existance according to our vision "
Who's vision you would like to follow then Bibo? This is very paradoxal. By taking this in you cannot but make a vision about God, we are human's, we try to accept God as he/she is, by reading holy books, and learning about other people, and therefore our 'vision' is not perfect but a mean to come to a better understanding, educational that is. And yet we have to let go of every imaging/vision of God, since he/she is greater than we can imagine. Our 'vision' of God cannot but be for the time being, human, fragmentary, until we meet his/her full existence.
"we have green card to do whatever " If you accept him/her you don't want to do whatever, so this is no option. And I am certainly not going to judge other people or myself for that matter. Who can see in the hearts of people but God him/herself? We come in this world with different circumstances, and personalities, and possibilities, who are we to judge what relation there is between God and his children that do not know or acknowledge him/her? AAre they not still his/her children and not mine to deal with?
"we need to acknowledge him because simply that is the reason we are here"
I agree with you here Bibo, but then I feel this longing in my heart to do so.
Demiana
Posted by micky azzam (Member # 11209) on :
god loves us all and if we believe in him and exsept him into our heart we will be saved. god is a very forgiving god and will forgive us if we ask him to. my brother is against my marriage to my egyptian husband but we are happier then him and his wife . which are 2 christains. everything happens for a reason and i prayed along timeabout marrying sabry . i think it was gods will to let me marry him or it woukldnt have happened.
Posted by Genie (Member # 11290) on :
quote:but he was not the actual SON of God
What does 'the actual Son of God' mean to you?? Christians don't claim that god 'gave birth' to Jesus or something!
According to the christian belief (and I think you already know that being raised up as a christian) that Jesus was simply God apearing in the flesh(1Ti 3:16)
quote:I also believe that GOD understands that there are many ways to be pulled for us humans on this Earth. HE knows there are many religions and will not punish someone for worshiping HIM under the name of Islam or Christianism, or Judism.
Alright so you think God would create that wonderful earth, and smart intelligent people that have brains as well as hearts, and let them figure out by themselves who he is, how to worship him,..etc just by listening to their hearts?? I assume since you believe in God, you also believe in Satan. So don't you think Satan could just twist your feelings a li'l bit?? God gave us clues about who he is, he gave us hearts and BRAINS to figure it out!
This propably doesn't make any sense to you, but my point here is, there must be only one correct religion (as someone here stated), because there are differences in these religions that affect your relationship with God! Not all religions (particularly Islam and christanity) do NOTTT worship the same God! My second point, again about brains.. God gave u a brain so that you would use it to search, and follow the clues he gave you about who he is! It is really soo good to find someone who truly feels God in his heart, but I suggest you also consider the matter logically. I mean search history n'stuff..
quote: How can you HATE another religion when they LOVE the SAME GOD as you???????? HOW?????
Again, please study islam and christanity once again deeplyyy.. They do not worship the same god! Didn't you ever hate someone's opinion for example? I mean, you love the person, but hate their point of view, their doctrine.. Like for example parents who won't let their children convert or something, you could hate what they're doing but still love them!
I hope all the rambling didn't get on your nerves .. and I'm sorry if this is more serious than you'd hoped for!
quote:You will not go to heaven by acting.
Yes! But Jesus said that we should do both, feel AND act! If you have good intentions but too lazy to act, that wouldn't get you into heaven either.. as far as I understand.
quote: God does not need to sacrifice anything to forgive a sin we did not do
Lots really misunderstand this point.. We inherited the sinful NATURE!! And that's why no man on earth is totally sinless (except for Jesus as I believe). So we actually did do sins!! It's not just Adam and Eve's sin!
quote: God has unlimited power to forgive our own sins with one word.
There are some things God cannot do because he is perfect.. Like for example, god cannot lie, because he is perfect. For God to be perfect, he must be just and fair. His mercy can't exceed his justness. He can't forgive without punishment, because that's just not fair!! So you might say they'll get their punishment in hell. But God is unlimited, his orders are unlimited, so when we break them, our sin is also unlimited. A limited punishment cannot do! Of course there are more reasons, but that's a big issue.. we could start another topic later about this.
Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
And I did not get the denomination you're in? Add up to the contest what religion is the 'right' one. You are just in the right place!:-) Have fun! Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
I'll make this simple for you Genie. You have your beliefs and I have mine, as we all do. There is no debate.
Posted by charm el feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
me and my mate had a row in the street today with a street preacher.
we were walking past and he tried to stop us. he said "whos baby is that" to my friend, she said "mine" he said, "god gave him to you and god will take him from you whenever he wants and theres nothing you can do about it"
i stopped, turned back and said "how can you say that to a mother in the street"... she was upset by him... he was quite nutty looking.
anyway, we carried on shopping, then had to walk back past him, he started again, i just said "your a bad man" he freaked, preaching the word of god, saying "the devil is a liar" i lost the plot with him... i started shouting at him and a crowd gathered, he preached louder and i kept saying 'god doesnt want you to upset people, say sorry' and he wouldnt....
in the end my friend threw her drink over him and we walked off, he shouted something about evil... i just said "you and people like you are why i cant believe in any religion or god".
tell me what is the point in upsetting a mother like that, for no good reason at all, all in the name of god.
Posted by Lazeez (Member # 10655) on :
quote:Originally posted by Genie:
For God to be perfect, he must be just and fair. His mercy can't exceed his justness. He can't forgive without punishment, because that's just not fair!! [/QB]
I don't understand how you guys accept this kind of logic without questioning!
How can forgivness contradict justice? And how can God be a forgiven merciful God if he will alwayes punish no matter whether people repent or not?
When a friend of your does you wrong and you forgive him, do we call this unfair? NO!
Being unfair is to give less than what others deserve or to put on others a burden they can't bear. but giving others what they deserve is fair and giving them more than what they deserve is generous when this generousity is given equally to all.
What's unfair is o treat all sins in equal bases and say they all are unlimited making no distinguish between unharmful lie and a murder of innocent soul and worse is to say all deserve death and worse than worse is to punish innocent man named Jesus for sins of others and call this an act of forgivness.
I don't see any forgivness here! Punishment was taken anyway in a very injustice way! There is no justice nor forgiveness here. You have complicated things and made God unforgiven and injust at the same time.
Posted by Genie (Member # 11290) on :
quote: I don't understand how you guys accept this kind of logic without questioning!
Because it is perfectly logical to my way of thinking.. it's not like christins are brainwashed or something!!
quote:How can forgivness contradict justice? And how can God be a forgiven merciful God if he will alwayes punish no matter whether people repent or not?
Alright so imagine someone who's really sensitive was maybe mocked about something he has an issue with, it's just mocking right?? But the other person was hurt and it's unfair to him and to God that whoever mocked him goes unpunished!
How could anybody endure any suffering from people if we all know that at the end i's all the same, all they gotta do is say "sorry" and that's it! I think people would just seek their own revenge.
quote:When a friend of your does you wrong and you forgive him, do we call this unfair? NO!
If a friend of yours does wrong to your son or daughter and he/she got really hurt, and you just forgive your friend because he/she said sorry! It takes more than that.. people have to repent and not do the same mistake over and over again in order to be forgiven.
I believe Jesus died for us to take our punishment so that whoever accepts Jesus (and becomes God's friend) is forgiven. And whoever accepts Jesus will automatically become a good person and repent.
quote: giving them more than what they deserve is generous when this generousity is given equally to all.
God IS generous! God doesn't ask us to repent and change the bad things in us by ourselves and then we're forgiven.. All it takes is an honest intention to change and God will do the rest of the work!
quote:making no distinguish between unharmful lie and a murder of innocent soul
there is no unharmful lie!! According to christian belief, souls do not literally die, except when they go to hell.. And Jesus said humans have no power over souls, only God does. The only damage done when a person is killed is that people will miss him.
quote:worse than worse is to punish innocent man named Jesus for sins of others and call this an act of forgivness.
It's like you're in debt and being sued, then a friend of yours willingly pays the money in order to set you free. All you have to do is accept the money.. What's wrong with that??
AshkiA, sorry if it sounded like I was trying to convert your or something! But that's what I'm used to on message boards.. debating, exchanging thoughts,..etc. I do get that you meant to discuss a different topic though..
Posted by Lazeez (Member # 10655) on :
quote:If a friend of yours does wrong to your son or daughter and he/she got really hurt, and you just forgive your friend because he/she said sorry! It takes more than that.. people have to repent and not do the same mistake over and over again in order to be forgiven.
Saying sorry is away of seeking forgivness. Whether it's true repentance or fake isn't for us to know.
quote:there is no unharmful lie!! According to christian belief, souls do not literally die, except when they go to hell.. And Jesus said humans have no power over souls, only God does. The only damage done when a person is killed is that people will miss him
Can we be more strightforward? First, how can murdering an innocent be as equal as a lie someone made and didn't harm others? both are sins but how can they be the same? this is as unfair as making two students fail in exam when one of them wrote nothing and the other did everything right except a slight mistake .
Second, you said we inherited sinful nature , so, if this nature made it impossible for us to stay pure with no sins then why would God punish us or anyone for something we have no control over?
quote:It's like you're in debt and being sued, then a friend of yours willingly pays the money in order to set you free. All you have to do is accept the money.. What's wrong with that??
Nothing is wrong with that! and if the one I owe him the debt forgave me , still nothing is wrong with that . charity is an act of generousity! but the problem I will have is when this friend of mine goes to prison because I -not him- was in debt! Wont you have a problem with this ?
As I explained to you before, giving people what they deserve is fair and giving them more than what they deserve is generous but giving them less than what they deserve or punishing them for something they didn't do is unfair!
Think about a man who commited a murder, a cop goes to his house to find him and there was his son. the son loves his father so much and he asks the cop to take him instead of his father. If you were the cop, will you take the son because he was willing to pay for his father or will you continue to search for the one who did the crime ? Will any judge punish the son instead of his father?
Think Think Think!!!
Your God punished a man who did nothing and we still sin . Jesus death didn't stop us from hurting others then repenting! Why did it happen then? Is sheding blood the only way for your God to rest and forgive? Just the idea of blood sheding no matter who gives this blood?
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As you might guess, I am married to an Egyptian / Muslim man and VERY happily. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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How do you deal with some of the atrocities we commit?
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I tried.
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