After reading this report, I have a question to ask.....
Why is it wrong to name a Teddy 'Muhammad' yet lots of childern have the name 'Muhammad'?
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
British teacher faces 40 lashes in Sudan for naming a teddy bear Mohamed
"Miss Gibbons faces six months in prison, a fine or 40 lashes if convicted of insulting the Prophet Mohamed."
It's okay that hundreds of thousands of maniacal sociopaths are named Mohammed, but call an innocent teddy bear that and Islamic Rageboy shows up.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
This is a good example as to why mindcrime laws about insulting religion are entirely unacceptable.
"The country's state-controlled Sudanese Media Centre reported that charges were being prepared 'under article 125 of the criminal law' which covers insults against faith and religion."
Posted by freshsoda (Member # 13226) on :
Come on Islam is peaaaaaaaaace.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Oh dear...so no one is prepared to answer the question I put.....
Why is it wrong to name a Teddy 'Muhammad' yet lots of children have the name 'Muhammad'?
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
That indeed is a real sad story and I hope that the British Embassy will be able to work out a deal with the Sudanese authorities and release her very soon.
And yes for her own safety she needs to be put on the next plane back to the UK.
Posted by Leito (Member # 14189) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Oh dear...so no one is prepared to answer the question I put.....
Why is it wrong to name a Teddy 'Muhammad' yet lots of children have the name 'Muhammad'?
It isn't wrong, but it doesn't make sense. Not making sense isn't a crime though.
Muhammad means he's praised because of his personality traits (I'm sure this isn't the best translation, it's mine).
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I was saddened by this story. She never named the bear it was the children. I hope that things can be sorted out.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Oh dear...so no one is prepared to answer the question I put.....
Why is it wrong to name a Teddy 'Muhammad' yet lots of children have the name 'Muhammad'?
Dunno! I had a quick look at the article today and it seems to me to be yet another example of excessive misinterpretation/over-sensitivity.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
MUSLIM TEDDY BEAR HAS PAWS CHOPPED OFF
The next time it shall be your head!
SUDAN was facing international sanctions last night after hacking off the little paws of a three year-old teddy bear.
The cuddly toy was found guilty of blasphemy after taking the name of the prophet Muhammad, in defiance of the country's strict Islamic teddy-bear naming laws.
A spokesman for the Sudanese ministry of justice defended the sentence, adding: "This is an act of mercy.
"Our laws demand that blashpeming toys be stripped to their underwear and stoned to death before their bodies are thrown into the desert as an afternoon snack for the vultures.
"By removing only the paws of this infidel we are demonstrating great restraint. This is a gesture of goodwill to you Western devils and your pornographic governments."
He added: "How would you react if your child named a teddy bear after Jesus, John the Baptist or even Tom Hanks?
"Would you not decapitate the toy, thrash the child and throw the teacher off a cliff to be devoured by ravenous killer whales?"
The United Nations and Amnesty International have called for the release of more than 2500 cuddly toys imprisoned without trial since early September.
A UN spokesman added: "Of course, some may argue there is no point in us keeping all these Sudanese children alive if they can't even think of a legal name for a teddy bear."
The bear was named following a classroom vote, with 'Muhammad' chosen ahead of 'Paddington', 'Baloo' and 'Al-Hassan, the Terrible Golden Sword of Righteousness'.
What is wrong with these people?
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Is this for real?
Is it April 1st (All fools day)?
What is wrong with these people?
PC, don't take everything so literally...check the source!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
See what you mean Newcomer....
BUT I am still very disturbed by the whole situation. And yet no one can give me a logical response to a perfectly ordinary question. Although Letio did try.... Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: BUT I am still very disturbed by the whole situation. And yet no one can give me a logical response to a perfectly ordinary question.
Sometimes we as Muslims are also confused by what some other Muslims do, even when what is claimed to be done is done in the name of the religion, as it doesn't fit in with our beliefs/understanding of Islam; in the same way that Christians get confused by what some other Christians do in the name of Christianity.
Not everything has a logical explanation for those looking on. As I said, to me it is not logical, it is yet another example of excessive misinterpretation/over-sensitivity.
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
You have a point there Newcomer. But, with more and more extreme situations as this, and fundamentalists hi jacking from both sides, Islam is never going to have a 'good profile' As you will be well aware I am not a Muslim, but I like to ask questions, listen to the 'other' point of view.....in all matters. I don't have to agree, but I like to listen to informed people who can put across points without disrespecting the other persons ideas.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: You have a point there Newcomer. But, with more and more extreme situations as this, and fundamentalists hi jacking from both sides, Islam is never going to have a 'good profile' As you will be well aware I am not a Muslim, but I like to ask questions, listen to the 'other' point of view.....in all matters. I don't have to agree, but I like to listen to informed people who can put across points without disrespecting the other persons ideas.
So what that means that people need to study Islam from reliable sources and look at it carefully, and not accept everything that is said by everyone.
There are many different understandings of Islam, many that fall within the boundaries and many outside, but all Muslims share the same core beliefs/creed. So if you start by looking at the fundamental beliefs, and understanding them well, it will make it easier to understand the more marginal issues. It's like learning any subject, if you try to learn the graduate level issues without having a basic BA grounding it will be much more difficult to analyse the information and come to a sound conclusion.
I too have no problem discussing matters about Islam, to the level of my ability and knowledge, with anybody who wants to do so in a respectful manner and seem truly interested in wanting to understand. But if they then turn round and insult Islam or Muslims, or others join in to do so, I'm afraid that I step out of the discussion. So feel free to ask and I, and I'm sure others, will be happy to join in if the discussion remains civil.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Update: British officials were today battling to free a British schoolteacher imprisoned in Sudan after letting her pupils name a teddy bear Muhammed.
Gillian Gibbons was facing a second day of interrogation after being grilled for five hours yesterday.
She has now been moved from a local police station in Khartoum to the headquarters of the country's criminal investigation department for questioning by English-speaking officers.
The 54-year-old, who has been detained on suspicion of insulting the prophet, faces up to 40 lashes or six months in jail.
But there was specualtion today that the British woman could be charged with sedition, a far more serious charge than insulting Muslims, which carries a more severe sentence.
Fellow teachers at Khartoum’s Unity High School told Reuters news agency they feared for Ms Gibbons’ safety after receiving reports that men had started gathering outside the police station where she was being held.
The school’s director, Robert Boulos, said: “This is a very sensitive issue. We are very worried about her safety. This was a completely innocent mistake. Miss Gibbons would have never wanted to insult Islam.”
40 lashes for naming a bear big Muhammad? Well okay. Now 200 lashes for being gang raped doesn't seem so bad.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: See what you mean Newcomer....
BUT I am still very disturbed by the whole situation. And yet no one can give me a logical response to a perfectly ordinary question. Although Letio did try....
It could be because Teddy Roosevelt was a Zionist agent.
Too bad some Muslims regard a teddy bear being named Mohammad, but not terrorist murderers having that name, to be an insult to Islam.
Posted by WindBetweenEars (Member # 13344) on :
It is seen as an insult to Islam to attempt to make an image of the Prophet Muhammad. By the same logic, isn’t every photo of a boy named Mohammed a similar offense? Ah well
Any how how did they know the Teddy bear was MALE .
Posted by happybunny (Member # 14224) on :
This is such sad news. It is claimed in one of the papers that no parents complained but one teacher did - who happens not to like the headteacher and wants him out!
I really feel bad for this lady, she has only been there since september.
With all the horrors that are happening in Sudan - what a Joke! - this poor women.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
A boy of seven taught by the British woman who is facing 40 lashes for naming a teddy bear Mohammed said yesterday: "It's all my fault".
However, her pupil insisted Mrs Gibbons had not intended to insult Islam - and that he had named the teddy bear after himself.
Sitting in his garden in shorts, alongside his family, he said: "The teacher asked me what I wanted to call the teddy. I said Mohammed. I named it after my name."
His relatives, who did not give the boy's full name, urged him to describe what happened.
The child said he was not thinking of Islam's Prophet when asked to suggest a name, adding that most of the class agreed with his choice.
Yesterday, Mrs Gibbons was said to be struggling to cope with conditions in her Sudanese cell.
•THREAT OF TEN YEARS IN JAIL
In Sudan there was speculation that Mrs Gibbons could face a more serious charge than originally discussed.
Posted by freshsoda (Member # 13226) on :
I think this to fulfill what Jesus said in.
Luke 21:12
12 men will seize you and persecute you; they will hand you over to the synagogues and to imprisonment, and bring you before kings and governors because of my name
17 You will be hated by all men on account of my name,
18 but not a hair of your head will be lost.
19 Your endurance will win you your lives.'
Posted by Black Dahlia (Member # 12864) on :
One reason its wrong to give the bear that name is because teddy bears are representations of wild animals.it is not allowed to have pictures or representations of animals, people, or statues. generally animals are not given names at all, as they are dirty and not capable of recognising what God is, or serving God. If they were being ultra strict here they would want to know how a teddy got into the school in the first place. strict families would not allow their children to have such toys, or any clothing depicting such animals. Ive not heard of any bears being called Jesus, and if she had chosen the name Abd ullah, as some report suggested she might have done, she may be in even more trouble. Anyone going to teach in such a culture should research it first. Whats normal and inoffensive in our culture may not be in others, and why do we in the west always assume our culture and views make perfect sense and are therefore the correct ones? Thats typical colonialist style judgement. Look what happens when a devote muslim come to the west wearing niqab? which makes perfect sense to them were they come from, but not here? Everyone lables them fundamentalist and suggests that they should do here as we do. Or, when a newcomer to the west keeps chicken or sheep and ritually slaughters them for meat in their own back yard? Its what they do back home, and acceptable, but when here - they must do as we demand. This teacher is in the same situation. Its pure ignorance and bad decision making on her part, and obviously not a purposeful act of disrespect, which is why I hope it comes to a swift, pleasant conclusion, but never the less, its an offensive thing in Sudan. Being guided by such small children is irresponsible to.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
But Aishah (may Allah be pleased with her) used to play with dolls and toy horses...so that would negate that argument.
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: "When the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar (the narrator is doubtful), the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls which belonged to her.
He asked: What is this? She replied: My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked: What is this I see among them? She replied: A horse. He asked: What is this that it has on it? She replied: Two wings. He asked: A horse with two wings? She replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said: Thereupon the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4914)
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: Being guided by such small children is irresponsible to.
How irresponsible..letting the kids vote.
If they can name children after Muhammed why not a teddy bear? It is beloved. It is not like naming Piglet Muhammed.
I would have felt good about small children naming a cuddly, loveable teddy bear after me...it shows the children love me enough to honor me with something they love. That is so cliche, the bear holding a heart that says, "I Love You."
The teddy bear is the insulted party in this whole thing!
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
After watching the video from Malaysia of the man receiving what seemed to be 20 lashes (flogging), I don't see how a 54-year-old woman could survive 40.
She's been arrested for simply having part in naming a teddy bear Mohammed. This is the most obscene kind of satanic comedy imaginable.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: One reason its wrong to give the bear that name is because teddy bears are representations of wild animals.it is not allowed to have pictures or representations of animals, people, or statues.
That's one interpretation of many. Nobody has the right to force everybody else to follow his / her particular interpretation.
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: they are dirty and not capable of recognising what God is, or serving God.
First of all, not all animals are necessarily dirty. Secondly, whether they are able to recognize God or not is not up to us to decide, although some verses might lead to the conclusion that indeed they do. Thirdly, animals are mentioned in the Qur'an several times, and we are explicitly asked to reflect over their creation, for example. So how can you say they are not *serving* God and make such derogatory statements about them?
Do you not realize that everyone in the heavens and the earth glorifies GOD, even the birds as they fly in a column? Each knows its prayer and its glorification. GOD is fully aware of everything they do. (24:41)
All the creatures on earth and all the birds that fly with wings are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned. (6:38)
Why do they not reflect on the camels and how they are created ? (88:17)
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: generally animals are not given names at all, as they are dirty and not capable of recognising what God is, or serving God.
How about all those criminals in jail who are muhammeds? so a cute little teddy bear called muhammed offends muslims but criminal muhammeds don't?
Maybe this is why Sudan is slaughtering the people of Darfur, maybe some little boy in Darfur named his teddy bear Mohammed. What gentle, spiritual people these "Muslims"!
Posted by Exiled (Member # 14410) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: After watching the video from Malaysia of the man receiving what seemed to be 20 lashes (flogging), I don't see how a 54-year-old woman could survive 40.
She's been arrested for simply having part in naming a teddy bear Mohammed. This is the most obscene kind of satanic comedy imaginable.
Different cultures undercover, different cultures. I mean it was only 60 or so years ago when the English colonized and raped Sudan and I’m sure that is still in the back of the minds of many people there. Given this fact and given the fact that she is English she should have been extra careful.
But I don’t think they’ll flog her like they do men and certainly not in a way to kill her because frankly that would cause a diplomatic crisis. Many years ago when Clinton was president an American teenager was found guilty of graffiti in Singapore and President Clinton pled on his behalf. The Singaporean government reduced his lashings in half … given that these are African Arabs they’ll probably pardon the woman.
Point of all of this: Don’t Mess With The Asians!!! President Clinton made repeated pleas and they still caned the kid – his butt was so sore he slept on his stomach for 2 weeks.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiled: I mean it was only 60 or so years ago when the English colonized and raped Sudan and I’m sure that is still in the back of the minds of many people there. Given this fact and given the fact that she is English she should have been extra careful.
It certainly is...that was why the mother of a Sudanese man who wanted to marry me once refused to give him her blessing for it...because I was British!
Posted by Exiled (Member # 14410) on :
quote:Originally posted by newcomer:
quote:Originally posted by Exiled: I mean it was only 60 or so years ago when the English colonized and raped Sudan and I’m sure that is still in the back of the minds of many people there. Given this fact and given the fact that she is English she should have been extra careful.
It certainly is...that was why the mother of a Sudanese man who wanted to marry me once refused to give him her blessing for it...because I was British!
That’s unfortunate as is this situation with this woman. The thing that is obvious yet many are too blind to accept and see is that this issue is more than just religious. The contempt is from both sides – I was reading what the English posters(from undercovers link) had to say about all of this and many were saying “those people live in the dark ages” and another one added “we shouldn’t give them our tax money” … etc
The thing is what tax dollars?? … What about compensation for the thousands of Sudanese killed by the British and speaking of dark ages was it not the English who had one of the nastiest empires? Short memories – contempt is very much alive and this dumb lady is in the mix.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Teddy bear teacher Gillian Gibbons release possible very soon
Mohamed Osman
November 29, 2007 12:00am
A BRITISH teacher arrested for allowing her students to name a teddy bear Muhammad will probably be cleared and released soon, a spokesman for the Sudanese embassy in London said.....
The African "islamic" psychos are often more deranged than their Arab counterparts. I guess that's due in part to their inferiority complex after years of enslavement by Arabs, and an overwhelming need to show the evil Western white world how strong and tough they are. Imprisoning a white European teacher on a mission of mercy should do the trick.
There are thousands of psychotic, terrorist Muhammads running loose in the world but I almost forgot, those are the good guys. A stuffed teddy bear is an evil symbol of the West; how dare this blasphemous icon of corruption be used to ridicule the blessed prophet. These people are totally insane.
I would find the muslim's outrage more credible if it were an actual animal and not a cloth reproduction of one. I think that this is just an excuse to inflict a barbaric indignity on a citizen of a country they don't like. It seems like blowback for the British criticism of the Sudanese government's policy of allowing genocide to occur within it's borders.
Posted by Exiled (Member # 14410) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: The African "islamic" psychos are often more deranged than their Arab counterparts. I guess that's due in part to their inferiority complex after years of enslavement by Arabs, and an overwhelming need to show the evil Western white world how strong and tough they are. Imprisoning a white European teacher on a mission of mercy should do the trick.
There are thousands of psychotic, terrorist Muhammads running loose in the world but I almost forgot, those are the good guys. A stuffed teddy bear is an evil symbol of the West; how dare this blasphemous icon of corruption be used to ridicule the blessed prophet. These people are totally insane.
I would find the muslim's outrage more credible if it were an actual animal and not a cloth reproduction of one. I think that this is just an excuse to inflict a barbaric indignity on a citizen of a country they don't like. It seems like blowback for the British criticism of the Sudanese government's policy of allowing genocide to occur within it's borders.
Well we could all breathe a sigh of relief now - the teacher is free.
Posted by Black Dahlia (Member # 12864) on :
DALIA, UNDERCOVER - dont throw a wobbly so !
Intelligent discussion can mean " NOT ALWAYS MY OWN PERSONAL VIEW " But, more the POSSIBLE REASONS why things happen. To help us understand more about WHY certain things happen, and not to always judge other too harshly for their actions as they different concepts, cultures, upbringing, religious beliefs etc etc.
I was expressing one of these "possible reasons" - which is why I did add the bit you left out............"Its pure ignorance and bad decision making on her part, and obviously not a purposeful act of disrespect, which is why I hope it comes to a swift, pleasant conclusion, but never the less, its an offensive thing in Sudan....."
As for various terrorists (proven or assumed, by virtue of their religion ) etc. being named Mohammed - Im sure their parents did not assume they would become such when they reached adulthood. You dont have a baby and choose a name depending on what type of human being it will become in the future. Or, are you thinking that all terrorists - potential terrorists - who happen to be named Mohammed should change their names so westerners dont accuse them of defaming the Prophet?
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Exiled: Well we could all breathe a sigh of relief now - the teacher is free.
Not yet.... unless you know more than Reuters!! Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Last Updated: Wednesday, 28 November 2007, 11:23 GMT
What can't be named Muhammad?
British teacher Gillian Gibbons stands accused of insulting Islam's Prophet after allowing her pupils in Sudan to name a teddy bear Muhammad. What are the rules on using the name?
The Arabic name Muhammad is now the second most popular name for baby boys in Britain, adding together its 14 different spellings in English.
Muslim families - of which there are an increasing number in the UK - often choose names which honour the Prophet or show a link to their religion in another way.
Some say Muhammad can only be given to boys, others are less strict But is it acceptable to name a toy Muhammad? The arrest of Ms Gibbons has sparked debate in Islamic circles. As is the case in so many religious matters, the question is open to interpretation.
The issue has been a vexed one for Muslims through the ages. Some believe that the name can only be given to boys - to give it to an object is idolatry. Others say that pets and toys can bear the name.
Ibrahim Mogra, chairman of the interfaith Muslim Public Affairs Committee and an imam in Leicester, says the name should be reserved for boys. "Some of us believe we are assured of heaven if we name our children Muhammad."
But he says it's ridiculous that Ms Gibbons is being punished for a "miscalculation".
Gillian Gibbons asked her class to name the bear "If someone clearly intends to insult and cause offence with a toy in the form of a pig, for example, and someone knowingly and intentionally names it Muhammad, we know exactly where they're going with it - the idea is to cause offence. If it's just a miscalculation, we don't need to go overboard."
Dilwar Hussain, of the Islamic Foundation, has no problem with a teddy bear called Muhammad. For some years, the Islamic Society sold a soft toy made for British Muslim children named Adam the Prayer Bear. "Adam is also the name of a Prophet."
Would it be acceptable to give a religious name to a pet? In much of the Muslim world, he says, animals are seen as functional and so are rarely given names.
Idolatry
But Adel Darwish, the political editor of The Middle East magazine, says that Muslim children - "like children everywhere" - give their pets the names of characters they liked, be it a religious figure, sports hero or pop singer.
"Millions of Muslim children in Muslim nations give their dolls, pets and teddies Muslim names of the Prophet and his mother, daughters and wives."
Gill Lusk, the associate editor of Africa Confidential and a specialist on Sudan, says the incident will have offended many in the country. As Sudan is a place where religion is never mocked or satirised, it's "unthinkable" that a toy or pet could be given a religious name.
"You're not supposed to give a religious name to any objects - it could be seen as idolatry."
But the majority of Sudanese people won't want to see Ms Gibbons in trouble for the naming of the teddy bear.
"People are very forgiving of foreigners, particularly Europeans. Nobody would think she was trying to offend them - they would just think she was ignorant."
“Parents who name their son Muhammad believe that the name has an effect on their personality and future characteristics. They are saying that this boy will be of good character. Do you believe this does have an influence on their personality.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: "You're not supposed to give a religious name to any objects - it could be seen as idolatry."
I find it difficult to take seriously muslims who consider naming a teddy bear Mohammed idolatrous. It just sounds like another excuse to be violent and commit atrocious acts in the name of religion. Kind of like Orwell's Thought Police, they seek to punish anyone that they assume is thinking thoughts of which they do not approve. They probably think it is a good way to keep infidels in line. Too bad it does not seem to be working.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: "Millions of Muslim children in Muslim nations give their dolls, pets and teddies Muslim names of the Prophet and his mother, daughters and wives."
Posted by Black Dahlia (Member # 12864) on :
just said on BBC news this woman has been charged now and not released !
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: just said on BBC news this woman has been charged now and not released !
Thats correct
I watched Sky news. They quoted the Muslim council of UK and the Ramadan council in UK ....saying that they thought it was sheer nonsense. But out side the UK foreign office it was said that most in Sudan government think they have gone OTT, but that someone in the government there has a bit of an agenda and want to take it further. Such as holding protests at Friday prayers. Which have already been planed..... Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
This woman is being charged under a law against "insulting religion and inciting hatred" for allowing schoolchildren to name a teddy bear Muhammad.
Allah is SOOOOOO PISSED at this woman!!!!
see baby Allah (and his Mohammad dolly) in his diaper crying, boohooing...
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! They're making fun of me!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
"Article 125 of Sudan's constitution, the law relating to insulting religion and inciting hatred...."
What about insulting our intelligence and any sane persons sense of justice?
Killing Christians in Darfur="perfectly acceptable"
Naming a teddy bear="inciting hatred"
Just curious about this barbarous turn of events, but will this poor English woman, who I presume is of Christian heritage now convert to Islam, after her 40 lashes, out of a 'Stockholm syndrome'? The whole thing is madness.
You can't help these people at any level, not even kindergarten, their world is hopelessly cursed with madness.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Such as holding protests at Friday prayers. Which have already been planed.....
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: just said on BBC news this woman has been charged now and not released !
Oh that's a pity but she knows she's not alone as the British Government is and will do anything what they can do to help her.
British response
The office of Gordon Brown, Britain's prime minister, said David Miliband, the country's foreign minister, wanted to see the Sudanese ambassador "as a matter of urgency".
The purpose of the meeting was "so we can get a clear explanation for the rationale behind the charges and a sense of what the next steps might be", a spokesman for the prime minister's office said.
Further:
" What has happened was not haphazard or carried out of ignorance, but rather a calculated action and another ring in the circles of plotting against Islam," the Sudanese Assembly of the Ulemas said in a statement."
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: This woman is being charged under a law against "insulting religion and inciting hatred" for allowing schoolchildren to name a teddy bear Muhammad.
Allah is SOOOOOO PISSED at this woman!!!!
see baby Allah (and his Mohammad dolly) in his diaper crying, boohooing...
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! They're making fun of me!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Is this meant to be funny this is one only single out country that is making a crap out of this and you write this ,does your God who happens to be my God say forgive them and tolerate your enemies .It does not help to make mockery out of ones faith even if some of its followers are going overboard on this woman .I think they are mad for doing what they do but she has a teacher going into a country run by the Shariah law should have had her wits about her ,but i hope she is released home soon her family must be going nuts i feel for her and them .
Posted by WindBetweenEars (Member # 13344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: just said on BBC news this woman has been charged now and not released !
Oh that's a pity but she knows she's not alone as the British Government is and will do anything what they can do to help her.
British response
The office of Gordon Brown, Britain's prime minister, said David Miliband, the country's foreign minister, wanted to see the Sudanese ambassador "as a matter of urgency".
The purpose of the meeting was "so we can get a clear explanation for the rationale behind the charges and a sense of what the next steps might be", a spokesman for the prime minister's office said.
Further:
" What has happened was not haphazard or carried out of ignorance, but rather a calculated action and another ring in the circles of plotting against Islam," the Sudanese Assembly of the Ulemas said in a statement."
May be if he bribed them they might just take the bait what do you think Labour is good at that these days taking bribes .
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
One of her class a little boy called Mohamed, asked for the bear to be named after him.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover:
quote:Originally posted by Pink cherry: Such as holding protests at Friday prayers. Which have already been planed.....
A powerful Sudanese newspaper urged authorities to call a hardline Islamist leader linked to Osama bin Laden to give evidence at her trial, to stress how offensive the case was to Muslims.
Extreme Islamic groups said Mrs Gibbons "must die" and urged Muslims to hold street protests after prayers tomorrow.
The Muslim Council of Britain said it was "appalled" at the decision.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
My puzzle is why did the school employ a British non-Muslim teacher to teach the children in the first place with no apparent orientation to the religion and culture?
It looks like she was brought in to teach them English and anybody knows that in teaching a foreign language there is always a lot of reference to the culture of origin and as there are no books/curricula yet to teach English that show specific cultural sensitivity to Muslim cultures. If the school was unable to find a Muslim teacher to teach the pupils English, who could have made appropriate adjustments to the curriculum based on their own knowledge of the culture and religion, it would have been appropriate for the school authorities to have given the teacher some guidance in her lesson planning.
Too often native-speaking teachers are brought in to teach children English all over the world, with little or no cultural training, although I think that this is an OTT and irrational response, perhaps it will raise consciousness of the necessity for religious and cultural orientation to be given to foreign teachers going into new cultures.
Posted by VanillaBullshit (Member # 10873) on :
Another lame ass excuse for muslims to put everything on hold for yet another islamic hissy-boo fit.
Cursed indeed, these people will never be part of the 21st century, and they'll never achieve anything in this life or even in 100 lifetimes.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
It is actually something that is being discussed by TEFL (Teachers of Foreign Languages) already, as they themselves have been seeing the need for it for a while. They just need to get their act together and produce the materials instead of just talking about it.
Muslim schools then need to stop taking short cuts and employing unqualified/un-trained teachers and make sure that their teachers have the proper materials to do their job with, instead of treating their pupils like "colonial kids" who can be taught by any native-speaker who is willing to walk through their door.
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
Nobody is even considering what this is doing to the children. They are Innocent. If anyone is close to God it is children.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Why we Muslims must stop the flogging of the Teddy Bear teacher By SAIRA KHAN - More by this author » Last updated at 01:50am on 29th November 2007
At first glance, you could be forgiven for thinking the story was some sort of joke.
A nice, middle-aged British teacher locked up in a primitive North African prison, facing the prospect of 40 lashes simply because she called her class's teddy bear Mohammed.
But this is far from funny; it's deadly serious.
Gillian Gibbons is discovering, to her cost, that the Islamic state of Sudan is one of the most primitive and repressive countries in the world.
It's a country where brutal Sharia law is the norm, where no Sudanese woman would dare leave the house with her head uncovered and where the barbaric rite of female circumcision is still routinely practised.
Mrs Gibbons, in short, is in terrible danger - she has now been charged with insulting religion - and desperately needs our help.
By "our" help, I don't just mean that of the Government and diplomatic service.
I mean Britain's Muslim community, who must now unite in condemnation of this shocking and shameful persecution of an innocent woman.
I call upon all of us who are proud to be British and Muslim to voice our protest. We should demonstrate outside the Sudanese Embassy in London. We should make our voices heard in the street and the media. We must say, loud and clear, that we find this case despicable.
This is the perfect opportunity for us to show that Islam is not the faith of hatred and intolerance that many imagine it to be.
But sad to say, I'm not holding my breath. For there is a real danger that, within the British Muslim community, the extremists are winning the ideological battle - making it difficult, dangerous or downright impossible for moderate Muslims to stand up and be counted.
As a moderate Muslim who is outraged at the creeping tentacles of extremism, I will not be silenced.
I believe the treatment of Mrs Gibbons brings shame upon the peace-loving faith that I practise. If this woman is guilty of anything, it is only of naivety.
After all, it was not she who chose the bear's name in the first place. It was the children in her class, who selected it simply because it is the most popular boy's name in Sudan - just as it is in many parts of Britain's cities with large Muslim populations.
Venture into a playground in certain parts of Birmingham or East London and shout "Mohammed" and I'll wager that half the boys in the playground will turn round.
It's a name we love and respect and, as such, it's a name we give to many of our male offspring.
If I was six or seven years old and growing up in an Islamic state - as the children in Mrs Gibbons's class are - and thinking up a name for a class mascot, Mohammed would be the first one I'd settle on, too.
Not out of mockery, but from pride and tradition.
But the increasingly powerful Islamic thought police claim that calling a teddy bear Mohammed is disrespectful of the Prophet and must be punished. This is absurd on so many levels that it beggars belief.
For a start, if we are searching for people who have truly disrespected the faith, how about men like Mohammed Siddique Khan, the July 7 suicide bomber, or Mohammed Atta, the leader of the attack on the World Trade Centre?
It is Mohammeds like these, with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear.
So where are the protests about these men's offence again Islam? Where are the Muslims calling for the fanatics to be rooted out and punished?
The answer, all too often, is that they are concealing their outrage for fear of being targeted by extremists or branded "un-Islamic".
That is not only cowardly, it is dangerous. For if we moderates stay silent, then all the wider British public hears is the angry voices of the fanatics.
Take, for example, the reaction to a series of crass cartoons depicting the Prophet that were published in a Danish magazine two years ago.
Now, as a Muslim, I share the belief that neither Allah nor Mohammed should be represented visually (it is based on the compelling principle that no human hand could ever do their image justice).
As such, the cartoons were certainly crude and insensitive. But the sheer viciousness of the backlash from fanatical Muslims advocating jihad was out of all proportion to the perceived offence.
Around the world, Muslims-rose up in violent protests that led to more than 100 deaths. Is it any wonder, then, that so many of my non-Muslim friends now see Islam as a cruel, violent and unforgiving faith, totally at odds with the kind, tolerant religion that my father taught me about as a child?
I know I am not alone in pleading for moderation and understanding. But so many of us would rather withdraw into the safety of our own families than confront the hatred that is carried out in our name.
We cannot allow this to continue. And right now we have the perfect opportunity to seize back the agenda. We must speak up for Mrs Gibbons - a thoroughly decent woman who never meant to cause offence.
This is the moment for the Council of British Muslims, the unelected body (of men) who claim to speak for Muslims in this country, to step up and condemn in the strongest possible terms what is going on in Sudan - and indeed in Saudi Arabia, where a young women faces being publicly lashed 200 times for the "crime" of being raped.
web page Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Extreme Islamic groups said Mrs Gibbons "must die" and urged Muslims to hold street protests after prayers tomorrow.
Mr Brown's spokesman said: "We are surprised and disappointed by this development."
Mrs Gibbons's former husband, Peter Gibbons, 54, said last night that he and their children Jessica, 27, and John, 25, had been horrified at the news that she had been charged.
"The children are not coping very well, they are upset," he said. "We are praying and relying on the Foreign Office and the embassy out there.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: My puzzle is why did the school employ a British non-Muslim teacher to teach the children in the first place with no apparent orientation to the religion and culture?
apparently, Mrs. Gibbons taught her students about democracy, and they taught her about Islam. Isn't that a beautiful example of cultural exchange?
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Dahlia: Ive not heard of any bears being called Jesus, and if she had chosen the name Abd ullah, as some report suggested she might have done, she may be in even more trouble.
We use the name "Jesus" without offense, but nobody uses "Jesus Christ" because that would be offensive. In Hispanic cultures, it is common to see the name Jesus, it is also common to see the name Mary... they don't name their kids "Jesus Christ" or "Virgin Mary".
Mohamed is the most popular name in Islamic countries. Naming the teddy bear Mohamed is only natural. This is why when they refer to THE Mohamed they precede with PROPHET and ALWAYS follow with "Peace be upon him" or abbreviated as "PBUH" so it is The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). This is so they can differentiate between the holy prophet and their next door neighbor.
They didn't name the Teddy Bear "Mohammed PBUH"
If using the name Mohamed was an insult to the prophet, then they should start executing every man, woman and child that bears the name for insulting the prophet.
Besides "the child said he was not thinking of Islam's Prophet when asked to suggest a name, adding that most of the class agreed with his choice." "The teacher asked me what I wanted to call the teddy. I said Muhammad. I named it after my name."
Posted by happybunny (Member # 14224) on :
Great posts undercover "keep up the good work"
I am praying for this lady, i really hope she can be home with her family ASAP.
Take care all
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover:
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: My puzzle is why did the school employ a British non-Muslim teacher to teach the children in the first place with no apparent orientation to the religion and culture?
apparently, Mrs. Gibbons taught her students about democracy, and they taught her about Islam. Isn't that a beautiful example of cultural exchange?
I have absolutely no problem with two-way cultural exchanges, I think - no in fact, I know - that we can all learn something from spending time with, living with, and working with people of other cultures, and have experienced the benefits of that first-hand. That was how I eventually became a Muslim after all.
But what I am against is people going untrained or with no prior orientation to work in a culture that they have little or no knowledge about, especially when they are working with children or in an influential positions. It either means that the people who are being offered a service get a raw deal or the people working aren't going to be as effective in doing their jobs.
I have no idea about what prompted this lady to go to the Sudan or how much she knew about it beforehand, and maybe this wasn't the situation in her case and maybe this could have happened anyway. But I haven't seen any indication to the contrary.
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Nobody is even considering what this is doing to the children. They are Innocent. If anyone is close to God it is children.
I thought about this too, Of_Gold. I hope they are protecting the poor little boy who wanted the bear named after him from this media exposure Posted by joueur ( Hocus Pocus) (Member # 14353) on :
" Blasphemy laws in England...person in Britain to be imprisoned for blasphemy was John William Gott on 9 December 1921. He had three previous convictions for blasphemy...comparing Jesus to a circus clown. He was sentenced to nine months' hard labour. In 1977, Denis Lemon...found guilty of blasphemous libel...fined 500 pound... nine months imprisonment..."
Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
The last prison conviction was 1921 huh? The 1971 case was a suspended sentence. That shows how seriously the old blasphemy law is now taken in England. Hopefully, it will be removed soon - there have been calls to do this for some time. The 1971 case, I had to google, as you didn't provide a link.
''In the Constitutional & Administrative Law book it states that for the fifty-five years between 1922 and 1977 there were no prosecutions for blasphemous libel (Barnett 2002)''
"The last man to be sent to prison for blasphemy was John William Gott. In 1922 he was sentenced to nine months' hard labour for comparing Jesus with a circus clown."
My country, which is part of the UK has even more sense:
''In Scotland, there has not been a public prosecution since 1843 ''
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: My puzzle is why did the school employ a British non-Muslim teacher to teach the children in the first place with no apparent orientation to the religion and culture?
Because she teached in a Christian-run school?
"...The Unity school is a Christian-run but multi-racial and co-educational private school that is popular with Sudanese professionals and expatriate workers..."
It is in a big city Khartoum. Khartoum is a big international posting- lots of expats working there with kids who need to be in schools.
It's the British Embassy School. This school would hire a mix of Brits, a few expats who live there of perhaps other nations, like say India or Kenya or Australia, along with local Sudanese staff. These schools are big hires of expat spouses who want work.
And actually Peace Corps Volunteers often have masters and PhDs in education -so they could end up in some mud school or a Third World University -they are that versatile. She may have knowingly undertaken a risk in order to help these children.
So, it all depends on the diplomatic agreement signed between the British Government and the Sudanese government as to the diplomatic protections of the staff - sometimes the expats are covered, sometimes they are not, sometimes only the top one or two are covered.
Guaranteed the Sudanese govenment is aware of the diplomatic status of this woman -she had to be admitted/accepted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in order to enter the country for the post at the school.
They probably want to hit the British government, for some veiled political gain, and are using her as a tool.
This is what the website says about the school, which makes the parents reaction even more irrational, the way it was reported it sounded like a small village school:
Unity High School is an independent, co-educational, multi-racial school that serves the needs of pupils from various backgrounds whose parents have chosen a British -style education for them. Founded in 1902, it has always, as its name implies, been open to pupils of all ethnic groups and all faiths.
The School broadly teaches the English National Curriculum (with the I.P.C. also in Lower School), with local modifications to cover Arabic language and Islamic and Christian Religious Studies, leading to IGCSE Examinations at Key Stage 4 (Average IGCSE results over the past three years: A*- C grade passes = 89%). Special Educational Needs are supported and there is an EFL department and Language Support in the Upper School.
So it's a large well-established international school, used to having ex-pat teachers.
If she had been VSO (Voluntary Services Overseas, the British equivalent of the American Peace Corps) it is very unlikely that she would have been working in such a school; she would more likely have been working in a small village school. However, VSO no longer sends volunteers to the Sudan, they pulled out of there many years ago for political reasons, and are only recently trying to investigate going back into Southern Sudan.
I do agree with you, that seeing more about the background, does make this sound more like a political move than one that has anything at all to do with religious sentiments.
Posted by WindBetweenEars (Member # 13344) on :
HAS SHARIA GONE TOO FAR?
But that’s beyond the point. Is there any justification for punishing a teacher with 40 lashes? And for naming a teddy bear Muhammad?
Is this what Islamic law really says? Is this what Sharia law is about?
Or has the religion of the Prophet been distorted beyond recognition here? If this was a story that swung the other way as Muslims would you agree then on the 40 lashes before set free for enticing blaspheme ,im only asking here . A Quote: "What we really have here is a non-Muslim teacher in a school run by a non-Muslim board that allows Muslims and non-Muslims to educate and be educated together. While some would applaud this, I am sure that many "Islamists" in Sudan would be appalled at such a thing and have been waiting for an excuse to close the school down. There are bigger issues than soft toys and ignorant children and teachers."well said.
Posted by VanillaBullshit (Member # 10873) on :
"Or has the religion of the Prophet been distorted beyond recognition here?"
Yes.
Muslims seem to have a built in hair-trigger mechanism that causes them to be offended at the most unpredictable & bizarre of times.
Posted by Leito (Member # 14189) on :
KILL THE TEDDY BEAR!
Posted by WindBetweenEars (Member # 13344) on :
quote:Originally posted by VanillaBullshit: "Or has the religion of the Prophet been distorted beyond recognition here?"
Yes.
Muslims seem to have a built in hair-trigger mechanism that causes them to be offended at the most unpredictable & bizarre of times.
I totally agree here but please remember we dont all think like this and as muslims that actually deplore this we should take a stand against these extremists that take it to the tops that make it harder for moderate muslims a like to get on in the world .I think this goverment is at a low ebb in which way is turns is it one turn to the Goverments of the world to let her go then totally be attacked and stir up the extremists that seem at this point to be the ones that are in the control button here .What i want to know is she safe what ever the cost some are even saying if she is set free a Fatwah is on her a bounty money for her head ,as your aware VB extremists are further to out of sudan than me and you and i care to imagine .So do we take aleaf out of the do gooders here and say we not going to support you in aid or miltary help ever again do we let the innocent die because of a bunch over fanatic deeeeek heads saying they arein favour of saying they are the prophets excutioners.Where do we highlight Shariah to which is and what is not and not allow to be dictated by these rebels . thanx for replying .
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
It must be some kind of a covert Zionist conspiracy to trick Muslim fanatics into thinking there's something about a teddy bear.
Posted by WindBetweenEars (Member # 13344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leito: KILL THE TEDDY BEAR!
Like it not that teddy bear has a name now even if some idiots threw it out of control . Inshallah she will come home and be safe as British people and Muslims we should be supporting her for her release to be home in the bosom of her family .
Posted by VanillaBullshit (Member # 10873) on :
I understand where you're coming from, WBE.
In all honesty I don't think shariaa law has any place in the 21st century. Furthermore, the reason why moderate muslims don't speak up against their fanatical counterparts is because they're directly intimidated and silenced by them.
Nonie Darwish was barred from giving a lecture at Brown university recently, guess who the most voiciferous complaints came from? Yep, muslim students.
Posted by Leito (Member # 14189) on :
quote:Originally posted by WindBetweenEars:
quote:Originally posted by Leito: KILL THE TEDDY BEAR!
Like it not that teddy bear has a name now even if some idiots threw it out of control . Inshallah she will come home and be safe as British people and Muslims we should be supporting her for her release to be home in the bosom of her family .
How are we supposed to support her ?
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by VanillaBullshit: Muslims seem to have a built in hair-trigger mechanism that causes them to be offended at the most unpredictable & bizarre of times.
Okay let us add this to the list of things that "insult Islam."
No. 7,359,864,120: Naming a teddy bear "Mohammad."
You know, at some point, it will be easier to make a list of things that don't insult Islam.
You realize that we sent them soccer balls and they rioted over that. We sent them a teddy bears and they are rioting over that. Does anyone see a trend here?
You'd think the religion of peace would like having a cute little teddy bear named after their prophet. It would be great PR. The cuddly, fluffy, lovable bear is a three-dimensional representation of an animal figure--and therefore, in all likelihood, an exemplar of idolatry to "the authorities."
What an insult to the poor teddy bears. It's time for another round of riots in certain parts of the world. The only good thing that might come out of any riots is that there will be a few less violent fanatics in the world, if a few of them end up dying just like in previous riots. Anything is possible with those sorts of people, who just happen to be in possession of limited intellectual abilities. They'll riot over cartoon drawings which they've never even seen, so why not teddy bears ? I believe that the best strategy to counter the primitive and violent beliefs of these fascists is to continuously mock, insult and ridicule these violence-proned people and their ridiculous threats at every available opportunity. Let them riot over teddy bears, cartoons and criminals who crash and kill themselves while stealing motorcycles. I find the whole situation vastly entertaining, and I actually look forward to more riots in the future.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: I find the whole situation vastly entertaining, and I actually look forward to more riots in the future.
So that's why you are trying to stir things up here Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
My point is that Muslims themselves are the biggest enemy to Islam.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: My point is that Muslims themselves are the biggest enemy to Islam.
And I think that if you check back on this thread, not one Muslim here has said that they agree with what is happening in Sudan.
But if you want to carry on looking at and highlighting the periphery and judging the majority by it, I guess there is nothing much that we can do to stop you. But it seems that your vision in this area is as clouded and blinkered as those you are constantly criticising.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by WindBetweenEars:
quote:Originally posted by Leito: KILL THE TEDDY BEAR!
Like it not that teddy bear has a name now even if some idiots threw it out of control .
The teddy bear told the press that he is Jewish and that his real name is Moshe Bearkowitz. Posted by VanillaBullshit (Member # 10873) on :
LOL
All the more reason to kill the furry little zionist
Correction: Muslims work hard at avoiding hard work by relentlessly creating as much conflict as possible with everyone around them.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Okay, great news!!!! It's said that she will be jailed for a total of 15 days and deported!!!
"The sentence is a mockery of justice and we consider Gillian to be a prisoner of conscience," said Mike Blakemore, of Amnesty International.
Sudan's top Muslim clerics had pressed their government to ensure the teacher was punished harshly, comparing her action to author Salman Rushdie's "blasphemies" against the Prophet.
Conditions in Omdurman women's prison, where Gillian Gibbons will be jailed for 15 days, are appalling by any standards.
Hugely overcrowded, the jail on the outskirts of Khartoum, was originally built to hold 100 women and then expanded to hold 200, but in recent years has housed more than 1,200.
Hundreds of children also throng its corridors, leaving inmates at risk of disease.
Mrs Gibbons may have to share a cell with other inmates. In some cases, 50 can be crowded into a cell designed for ten.
The washing facilities are basic and some toilets are just a hole in the ground.
It is not uncommon in African jails for prisoners to receive just one meal a day.
A report by Human Rights Watch said the conditions were "shocking", pointing to "chronic overcrowding, lack of sanitation, diseases, and death from epidemics among children who lived with their mothers".
Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
quote:Originally posted by newcomer:
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: My point is that Muslims themselves are the biggest enemy to Islam.
And I think that if you check back on this thread, not one Muslim here has said that they agree with what is happening in Sudan.
But if you want to carry on looking at and highlighting the periphery and judging the majority by it, I guess there is nothing much that we can do to stop you. But it seems that your vision in this area is as clouded and blinkered as those you are constantly criticising.
You make a valid point NEWCOMER. Not one Muslim agrees with what is happening in Sudan, but yet people will try to find any excuse to lash out or make fun of what some Muslim otherwise are doing.
However, even if somene here did agree it does not and will not necessarily make it a proof that what is currently taking place in Sudan, regarding this issue is from Islaam.
Just because some Muslims do things in the name of Islaam it (the act) doesn't necessary means that, that act or actions in indictive of the tentants of Al-Islaam and those who have rational minds, with any shreed of common sense will be able to tell the difference between the two points.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Well, these people consider themselves Muslims.
"Extreme Islamic groups said Mrs Gibbons "must die" and urged Muslims to hold street protests after prayers tomorrow"
I can just hear my pastor encouraging his congregation to go out on the streets and protest over ANY issue following a prayer meeting. The elder board would fire him faster than you could blink an eye.
Hard to tell the difference between devout Muslims and mental patients.
Cartoon drawings, Burger King milkshakes, Teddy Bears, Piglet..
Certainly all of the above were so insulting to Islam, that a follower of the relgion is forced to riot for redress of greivences..
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Too bad Aisha isn't around. She probably would have loved this for a present.
Are you a christian or a jew or maybe ?or are you on the booze .
You are right, I don't know if I would trust a Teddy Bear named Muhammad around little girls. Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
I think the outcome of this case is quick and acceptable - and happened due to major British and international outcry and pressure.
Also I believe she will be treated far better than other prisoners.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: I think the outcome of this case is quick and acceptable - and happened due to major British and international outcry and pressure.
Also I believe she will be treated far better than other prisoners.
Sounds like the Sudanese had to save face with the nutcases at home, but didn't dare beat up an old lady with the whole world watching.
Sad to say, but from the photo I've seen of her, she can afford to lose some weight.
Seriously, I do wonder if she'll come home a changed woman or with a case of Stockhom syndrom. Why do I have this sneaking feeling that she will "revert" to Islam in order to avoid being gang raped, and then come back wearing a burqa and twittering about how "kindly" she was treated and what a "gentle religion" Islam is.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
The good news is the bear got off with probation. Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover:
Sad to say, but from the photo I've seen of her, she can afford to lose some weight.
That's an absolutely mean and unnecessary comment! Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
Too bad Aisha isn't around. She probably would have loved this for a present.
You should watch what you say. Your comment maybe seen offense and in appropiate to Muslims especially if your comment was geared to our Mother Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her).
Please clarify if your comment was made against the wife of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him)?
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
I've been indulging in a lot of schadenfreude since I discovered that the reason Gillian went to the Sudan was because she is an Islamophile.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Please clarify if your comment was made against the wife of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him)? [/QB]
Yes I meant that Aisha-the wife of Muhammad (may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him)
Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover:
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Please clarify if your comment was made against the wife of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him)?
Yes I meant that Aisha-the wife of Muhammad (may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him) [/QB]
Congrats on your acknowledging your insult to Ayisha (may Allah be pleased with her). If you do not apologize and repent for your words you will have reserved a seat in a nice warm place for yourself.
I can't wait to see your face on Al Yawmul Qiyyamah when inshaa Allah I am looking down upon you and I will ask you did Allah give you what was promised.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
SITS, if Mohammed were alive today I think he would be flattered that the children adore him so much that they have named their favourite bear (everybody knows teddy bears are adorable and cute) after him. I am sure that he would not imprison somebody over it. Don't blaspheme God by implying otherwise.
Repeat again: "It is Mohammeds with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear!"
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: SITS, if Mohammed were alive today I think he would be flattered that the children adore him so much that they have named their favourite bear (everybody knows teddy bears are adorable and cute) after him. I am sure that he would not imprison somebody over it. Don't blaspheme God by implying otherwise.
Repeat again: "It is Mohammeds with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear!"
Fully agree!
Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: SITS, if Mohammed were alive today I think he would be flattered that the children adore him so much that they have named their favourite bear (everybody knows teddy bears are adorable and cute) after him. I am sure that he would not imprison somebody over it. Don't blaspheme God by implying otherwise.
Repeat again: "It is Mohammeds with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear!"
That doesn't excuse your offensive comments about Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her).
By the way Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her) isn't a child anymore, nor was she a child after the death of the Prophet (salallahu alayhi wassalaam). She was a full grown women. So don't try to get out of that offensive comment when in fact you know she was a woman if she still were alive then or today as you put it.
Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: SITS, if Mohammed were alive today I think he would be flattered that the children adore him so much that they have named their favourite bear (everybody knows teddy bears are adorable and cute) after him. I am sure that he would not imprison somebody over it. Don't blaspheme God by implying otherwise.
Repeat again: "It is Mohammeds with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear!"
Fully agree!
You just keep exposing yourself and your ignorance for Islaam.
You are so sure that the Prophet Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wassalaam) would be flattered that dolls and stuff animals would be named after him. That sounds so stupid, as if stuff animals and dolls didn't already exist during his lifetime. That would have just made his day, people walking around naming dolls after him and he would have been so happy and flattered..authubillah min thalik!
You and Undercover will mostly likely be sitting together in that warms fuzzy place. Keep doing what your are doing and believing what you are believing.
She insults Ayesha and you insult the Prophet Muhammad (salallahu Alayhi wassalaam). Two peas in the pot.. or two twiddles.. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Sorry sands, so quick to judge aren't you? The arrogant and those who add to Allah's words will be in a warm fuzzy place too so check yourself love!
This is what I was fully agreeing with ya ignoramous one.
quote:Repeat again: "It is Mohammeds with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear!"
I also fully agree with this
quote:"Or has the religion of the Prophet been distorted beyond recognition here?"
Yes.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Sudan commits genocide in the name of Allah, and you are offended by teddy bears.
No I'm offended by your funky comments about Ayesha (radiallahu ta'ala anha) and the Rasulullah (salallahu alayhi wassalaam). That's what SITS is offended by!
Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Sorry sands, so quick to judge aren't you? The arrogant and those who add to Allah's words will be in a warm fuzzy place too so check yourself love!
This is what I was fully agreeing with ya ignoramous one.
quote:Repeat again: "It is Mohammeds with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear!"
I also fully agree with this
quote:"Or has the religion of the Prophet been distorted beyond recognition here?"
Yes.
Not so quick to judge. You are the one who said your agree to what UNDERCOVER said NOT me! Don't try and flip the script now.
And I am confident if you believe in the way you believe and you die upon that..you will without a shadow of a doubt be in a nice warm (and it get's hot in there too) fuzzy place and your won't need a blanket or that nice Teddy bear name Muhammad.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
Too bad Aisha isn't around. She probably would have loved this for a present.
You should watch what you say. Your comment maybe seen offense and in appropiate to Muslims especially if your comment was geared to our Mother Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her).
Please clarify if your comment was made against the wife of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him)?
Offensive? You've got to be kidding Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
Too bad Aisha isn't around. She probably would have loved this for a present.
You should watch what you say. Your comment maybe seen offense and in appropiate to Muslims especially if your comment was geared to our Mother Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her).
Please clarify if your comment was made against the wife of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him)?
Offensive? You've got to be kidding
Go to Sudan and say those comments and see where you will be.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
[/QUOTE]Yes this comment is offensive also! [/QB][/QUOTE]
And this too
quote:Originally posted by WindBetweenEars: ?or are you on the booze .
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Obviously some people are more offended by teddy bears than by the genocide in Sudan
This is what is in the heart of a 20-year-old woman named Aluel Mangong Deng: "I was enslaved five years ago during a raid on my village, Agok. I tried to run away from the soldiers, but they caught me and threw me to the ground. I struggled to get away, so they held down my hands and feet and cut my throat and chest with a knife. As I grew faint, one of them named Mohammed raped me then and there. That night, I was again raped by different men. They came one after another. This also happened to other women, and even to young girls. It took about 30 days before we reached Poulla, north of Babanusa. This kind of rape happened just about every day along the way."
Impunity
Amnesty says that almost all of the rapes were carried out with either the direct involvement or in view of government forces and yet no-one has been charged with rape or abduction. BBC
I was sleeping when the attack on Disa [village] started. I was taken away by the attackers, they were all in uniforms. They took dozens of other girls and made us walk for three hours. During the day we were beaten and they were telling us: "You, the black women, we will exterminate you, you have no god." At night we were raped several times. The Arabs guarded us with arms and we were not given food for three days. Female refugee from Disa
DO YOU THINK IT'S FAIR? Tell the Sudanese government your verdict on its embassy website at http://sudan-embassy.co.uk/ Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Sorry sands, so quick to judge aren't you? The arrogant and those who add to Allah's words will be in a warm fuzzy place too so check yourself love!
This is what I was fully agreeing with ya ignoramous one.
quote:Repeat again: "It is Mohammeds with their barbaric acts of murderous violence, who have brought the greatest shame on the name of our beloved Prophet, not some child's teddy bear!"
I also fully agree with this
quote:"Or has the religion of the Prophet been distorted beyond recognition here?"
Yes.
Not so quick to judge. You are the one who said your agree to what UNDERCOVER said NOT me! Don't try and flip the script now.
And I am confident if you believe in the way you believe and you die upon that..you will without a shadow of a doubt be in a nice warm (and it get's hot in there too) fuzzy place and your won't need a blanket or that nice Teddy bear name Muhammad.
"Hundreds of Islamic fanatics were today marching through the streets of Khartoum demanding that teddy teacher Gillian Gibbons should be shot."
"Protesters streamed out of mosques after sermons today, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against the terrified teacher.
Hundreds of riot police were deployed as demonstrators massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace.
"Shame, shame on the UK," protesters chanted, and they called for Mrs Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad." web page Posted by Leito (Member # 14189) on :
"Hundreds of Islamic fanatics were today marching through the streets of Khartoum demanding that teddy teacher Gillian Gibbons should be shot."
"Protesters streamed out of mosques after sermons today, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against the terrified teacher. Advertisement Click here to find out more!
Hundreds of riot police were deployed as demonstrators massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace.
"Shame, shame on the UK," protesters chanted, and they called for Mrs Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."
I don't see any pictures of the Islamic fanatics.
And why do YOU say hundreds and the website says thousands ?
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Mo bear in honour of Fayed by BEN ASHFORD
Georgia ... with teddy TEACHER Gillian Gibbons received a touching message of support yesterday – from a little girl who calls her teddy bear Mohamed.
Ten-year-old Georgia Leyland bought her bear in Harrods and named it after the famous store’s boss, Mohamed Fayed, 74.
But when Georgia heard of Gillian’s plight she grabbed her dad and asked: “Please Daddy, will they lock me up as well?”
Parents Mick and Neema, of Wrexham, north Wales, told her she could call the bear what she liked.
Sales manager Mick, 42, said: “She’s just a little girl and she doesn’t understand.
“But it’s hard to know what to say because none of us can understand why this poor woman is going to go on trial.
“It’s religion gone bonkers.
“The Sudanese should be thoroughly ashamed of their leaders.”
And Georgia told Gillian: “You’ve done nothing wrong. It’s just a teddy and you should be allowed to call it Mohamed – just like I’ve done.”
THE Sun today urges you to put a teddy in your window to show your support for Gillian. Email your pics to features@the-sun.co.uk or post to Teddy Bears For Justice, The Sun, 1 Virginia Street, London, E98 1SN.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leito: And why do YOU say hundreds and the website says thousands ?
Posted by Leito (Member # 14189) on :
Why are you confused, my question is quite simple.
You say there's hundreds of fanatics and the link you gave us says there's thousands ?!?!?!
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Obviously Daily Mail updated its link..I just noticed
Posted by Leito (Member # 14189) on :
Wow, so they counted the hundreds and now they're thousands ?
Where are the pictures then ?
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Posted by Leito (Member # 14189) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: Ask them
You're the one stating their article as a fact. Even though they took pictures of the police and not of the crazy fanatics with clubs and bazookas .
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Sudanese: 'Shoot teacher' By NICK PARKER Chief Foreign Correspondent and ONLINE REPORTER
TEN THOUSAND people, some carrying knives and sticks, have marched on the capital of Sudan calling for the teacher jailed for naming a teddy bear Mohammed to be shot.
The marchers - amassing outside the presidential palace in Khartoum - are claiming Gillian Gibbons' 15-day jail sentence is too lenient and that she should be put to death.
The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian.
They massed in central Martyrs Square, outside the palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed, though they did not attempt to disrupt the rally.
“Shame, shame on the UK,” protesters chanted, and they called for Gibbons’ execution, saying, “No tolerance: Execution,” and “Kill her, kill her by firing squad.”
The Muslim country’s London ambassador was yesterday summoned by furious Foreign Secretary David Miliband to explain the sentence.
Mr Miliband “expressed in the strongest terms” his concern the charges had not been dismissed.
And British Muslim chiefs branded the verdict “disgraceful”.
Terrified mum-of-two Gillian, 54, was spared an alternative sentence of 40 lashes of the whip but caged in an overcrowded hellhole jail in the Sudanese capital Khartoum for inciting hatred.
Brutal
Up to 30 women and their kids share each cell at the squalid mosquito-infested Omdurman prison where cell temperatures hit a scorching 120°F.
The jail was originally designed for 50 women, but now houses up to 1,000 and 400 kids.
Click below to sign our petition to release teacher Gillian
Brutal wardens have been known to whip inmates with hoses and up to six children a month die of malnutrition.
Gillian was said to be “stunned” by the sentence and her family in Liverpool were “very upset” last night.
Her worried son John, 25, said he planned to fly to Sudan to visit her, but he added: “I don't want the verdict to lead to any anti feeling towards Muslims.”
During the eight-hour trial Gillian tearfully denied inciting religious hatred by allowing young pupils to name the bear Mohammed.
A seven-year-old lad said the toy was named after him — not the Muslim prophet.
But a judge backed religious zealots who demanded punishment.
He said she had DELIBERATELY meant to cause offence.
Terrified ... Gillian After the verdict Sudan’s ambassador Omer Siddig was grilled in a 45-minute showdown with the Foreign Secretary.
Mr Miliband repeated his view the naming of the teddy had been an “innocent misunderstanding by a dedicated teacher”.
He added: “Our priority now is to ensure Ms Gibbons’ welfare.”
More diplomatic talks are expected later today in a bid to gain a “swift resolution” to the matter.
Britain’s largest Muslim organisation condemned the sentence.
Muhammed Abdul Bari, Secretary-General, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “This is a disgraceful decision and defies common sense.”
The Archbishop of Canterbury, the Most Rev Rowan Williams, said: “I can’t see any justification for this. It is an absurdly disproportionate response to what is at worst a cultural faux pas.”
It is believed Gillian may have the five days she already spent in custody taken off her sentence, so she will serve ten further days and then be deported.
Gillian, former deputy head of Liverpool’s Dovecot primary school, began her two-year posting in Sudan two months ago.
n.parker@the-sun.co.uk
The law in Khartoum
CALLING a teddy bear Mohammed is enough to earn you 40 lashes, jail or a fine in Sudan.
Luckily for Gillian Gibbons she wasn’t wearing men’s trousers at the time — as cross-dressing carries the death penalty.
So do homosexuality, adultery and trying to convert a Muslim to Christianity.
These are all banned under Sharia law as laid down in the Koran.
In Sharia law a man’s evidence is equal to that of two women — but there is no mention of teddies.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
This is what is in the heart of a 20-year-old woman named Aluel Mangong Deng: "I was enslaved five years ago during a raid on my village, Agok. I tried to run away from the soldiers, but they caught me and threw me to the ground. I struggled to get away, so they held down my hands and feet and cut my throat and chest with a knife. As I grew faint, one of them named Mohammed raped me then and there. That night, I was again raped by different men. They came one after another. This also happened to other women, and even to young girls. It took about 30 days before we reached Poulla, north of Babanusa. This kind of rape happened just about every day along the way."
Impunity
Amnesty says that almost all of the rapes were carried out with either the direct involvement or in view of government forces and yet no-one has been charged with rape or abduction. BBC
I was sleeping when the attack on Disa [village] started. I was taken away by the attackers, they were all in uniforms. They took dozens of other girls and made us walk for three hours. During the day we were beaten and they were telling us: "You, the black women, we will exterminate you, you have no god." At night we were raped several times. The Arabs guarded us with arms and we were not given food for three days. Female refugee from Disa
This is what is in the heart of a 20-year-old woman named Aluel Mangong Deng: "I was enslaved five years ago during a raid on my village, Agok. I tried to run away from the soldiers, but they caught me and threw me to the ground. I struggled to get away, so they held down my hands and feet and cut my throat and chest with a knife. As I grew faint, one of them named Mohammed raped me then and there. That night, I was again raped by different men. They came one after another. This also happened to other women, and even to young girls. It took about 30 days before we reached Poulla, north of Babanusa. This kind of rape happened just about every day along the way."
Impunity
Amnesty says that almost all of the rapes were carried out with either the direct involvement or in view of government forces and yet no-one has been charged with rape or abduction. BBC
I was sleeping when the attack on Disa [village] started. I was taken away by the attackers, they were all in uniforms. They took dozens of other girls and made us walk for three hours. During the day we were beaten and they were telling us: "You, the black women, we will exterminate you, you have no god." At night we were raped several times. The Arabs guarded us with arms and we were not given food for three days. Female refugee from Disa
^ Funny how after this was posted, SITS became silent.
Not funny you bonehead..SITS has other things to do then sit on this forum..
SITS in no way endorses rape, murder, or thief from any religion, color or creed. All vicious acts are committed by Christians, Muslims, Jews and other than them.
Mr. Bush and his thugs are prime examples of that so you can get off your high horse thinking that Muslims are the only one who commit those crimes..and when a Muslim commits those crimes then he/she should be punished for them in accordance with the laws in the Quran verses accepting Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior.
I will be away from the computer know because it's time for me to pray salatul tahajjud inshaa Allah and I will be away from time to time today because I have my Islamic Studies to do..Just in case you were wondering where SITS has gone!
I can see that I have a impact on some people..people like you need to get SITS off the brain.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
Spitting hatred, thousands of hardline Islamists called for British teacher Gillian Gibbons to be shot yesterday.
They streamed out of mosques in the Sudanese capital, Khartoum, shouting: "Kill her, kill her, kill her by firing squad."
One man brandished a giant sword, others carried axes, clubs, ceremonial swords and knives.
Earlier, during a visit from her lawyer, Mrs Gibbons described how her dream of working with children in Sudan had turned into a nightmare.
"I still cannot believe this," she said, "Never in my life would I have ever thought I would be accused of deliberately insulting someone or something. I am simply not like that.
The divorced mother of two, who began working in Khartoum in August, added: "I just feel so sad. I came to Sudan looking forward to things going smoothly and safely. Now it's all over for me and I will be sent home. It has been a nightmare.
"It was my dream to come here so why should I have come and then insulted Islam?
"If I was that type of person I would have never come in the first place or I could have done that sort of thing in London or Liverpool."
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Just because some Muslims do things in the name of Islaam it (the act) doesn't necessary means that, that act or actions in indictive of the tentants of Al-Islaam and those who have rational minds, with any shreed of common sense will be able to tell the difference between the two points.
The key phrase is
"The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons shouting: "Kill her, kill her, kill her..."
Clear cause-and-effect evidence for even the most reluctant that it is the teaching of the religion (Salafi?) that encourages and increases the violence.
When attending a religious service whips the masses into a bloodthirsty frenzy, when this happens time and again is various places, it is reasonable to suspect the religion isn't teaching love, peace, and understanding.
Posted by habeeby (Member # 14429) on :
Fanatics..... Crazy Fanatics...... Should they not be reacting this way towards the rape of their own women and children..... They need to put things into perspective and realise that the western world just sees them as closed minded fanatics who behave like savages.....
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
I have to agree this whole situation about this teacher is very strange. I'm sure it's not some mass western cover-up, it seems certain individuals are using this situation to further their own agenda. I hope they release her soon and she doesn't have a bad portrayal of Muslims, although I think it might be difficult. Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
habeeby, do you live in Dallas?
Posted by Somewhere in the sands (Member # 13869) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover:
quote:Originally posted by Somewhere in the sands: Just because some Muslims do things in the name of Islaam it (the act) doesn't necessary means that, that act or actions in indictive of the tentants of Al-Islaam and those who have rational minds, with any shreed of common sense will be able to tell the difference between the two points.
The key phrase is
"The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons shouting: "Kill her, kill her, kill her..."
Clear cause-and-effect evidence for even the most reluctant that it is the teaching of the religion (Salafi?) that encourages and increases the violence.
When attending a religious service whips the masses into a bloodthirsty frenzy, when this happens time and again is various places, it is reasonable to suspect the religion isn't teaching love, peace, and understanding.
Read Usoolul Sunnah first and then talk to me about Islaam. The Book was written by Imam Ahmed Bin Hambal...If you read and understand Arabic..I will be more than happy to send you a copy FREE of charge.
Posted by habeeby (Member # 14429) on :
quote:
------------------------------------------------- habeeby, do you live in Dallas? -------------------------------------------------
I mean you would not be refering to that trashy football team with their bimbo cheerleaders 'Dallas Cowboys' never would you blaspheme that way surely???? Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i pray any man or women that does this teacher harm will meet a bad fate i wish they will recieve all they give her in hell dumb ass sudan people!!!
Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Oh...dear! I am still waiting for an answer to my original question...... 'Why is it wrong to name a Teddy 'Muhammad' yet lots of children have the name 'Muhammad'? So I have been looking around to gain knowledge on the subject myself
Now the moderate Muslims here cannot give an exact response but have put forward their suggestions. Most moderates on this board and indeed from around the world and Sudan, feel that there is another agenda behind the sentence given to Gillian Gibbons. Example....... The imprisonment in Sudan of a British teacher for insulting Islam has led once again to images of angry Muslims splashed across the newspapers.
But according to one British Sudanese Muslim scholar, this is not the true face of Islam and their anger is not shared by Muslims in Britain.
Dr Imad Hassan, 45, is a Sudanese doctor and writer with a PhD in comparative religious studies who has lived in Britain since 1991.
He feels that someone from the Sudanese community must speak out against the ruling, and is planning to organise a protest from fellow scholars.
"I feel insulted as a Muslim by the government of Sudan, not by Mrs Gibbons," he told the BBC. "Describing the lovely children's toy with the name of Muhammad is a compliment, it is not an insult. "If my own son calls a teddy bear Muhammad I would not rebuke him, let alone a non-Muslim teacher accepting children's natural lovely choice.
"The Arabs use lots of wild animals' names as human names. The name 'Hamza', the most beloved uncle of the prophet means 'lion' which is wilder than the bear.
"The prophet Muhammad himself in his lifetime has been insulted by so many people and he has forgiven them, so this is not Sharia law, it is politically motivated."
Sudan's leaders are rather used to the sound of western outrage - and have come to realise that, for them, it rarely amounts to much.
Power in Khartoum rests with the combined machinery of national security, police intelligence and the interior ministry.
For the most part these agencies do not meet with Western diplomats - and they have little interest in improving Sudan's relationship with the West.
Running these shadowy organisations are men who have been blamed and in some cases named for arming militias and organising the conflict in Darfur. What men like them fear most is having to account for their role in atrocities that have killed over 200,000 Darfuris over the last four years.
Their strategy appears to be to keep the Sudanese government at odds with the West and to try and minimise the international presence in the form of both aid workers and peacekeepers.
As part of this the security apparatus seizes on any opportunity to discredit westerners in the eyes of the Sudanese public and Mrs Gibbons's detention now seems to fall into that category.
During the two-and-a-half years I lived in Sudan, expatriates were regularly targeted by the authorities. Refusals to accept troops from non-African countries, delays in the allocation of land for military bases and the denial of landing rights are just a few of the problems.
In Ms Gibbons's case she has primarily been dealt with by the Ministry of Justice.
That is the same Ministry of Justice that was referred to the International Criminal Court in the Hague by the UN Security Council in 2005, which described it as unwilling and incapable of dealing with Darfur's atrocities.
Having been so publicly dismissed as weak, it comes as little surprise that the ministry has now seized on Ms Gibbons's case as a chance to flex its muscles in the face of its critics.
Friday was always expected to be the flashpoint in Khartoum. Preachers used loudhailers to goad the demonstration into angry Arabic chants of “No tolerance – execution” and “Kill her, kill her by firing squad”. When a crowd of young men spotted a group of foreign reporters they began slashing their fingers across their throats. Police intervened as they advanced down the road.
Yet there was little reaction elsewhere. Most of the population of Khartoum went about their normal Friday business. The fried fish restaurants of Omdurman were filled with men discussing the previous night’s big football match as they squeezed lemon juice over battered Nile perch. Families spent the morning at home and the afternoon playing in Khartoum’s parks as usual once prayers finished. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article2980644.ece
So.....in line with other people in the world I do not feel this is a religious, or cultural matter. I think it is a plot by fundamentalist with an agenda. It is known there are many in Sudan, and the slide nicely into the lap of the government, to be used by them as necessary Muhammad the prophet did not order that his name not be used by giving it to a child,(he had to deal with worse) If he did object then there would be no children (who are after all a species of animal) be been given his name.
Posted by Exiled (Member # 14410) on :
Once again Islamophobia in the media and on ES reared its ugly head because the ‘lashing’ punishment was conceived out of mere speculation. Speculation sold to us by the biased media and the Islamophobes on ES.
The fact is that was merely hearsay and speculation prior to judicial proceedings. It is the equivalent of speculating that someone will receive such and such sentence e.g. death penalty before the defendant even made it to the court room.
The fact is she was sentenced to 15 days in jail followed by deportation with a the possibility of a pardon.
------------------------------------------------- habeeby, do you live in Dallas? -------------------------------------------------
I mean you would not be refering to that trashy football team with their bimbo cheerleaders 'Dallas Cowboys' never would you blaspheme that way surely????
Yes I was... Posted by habeeby (Member # 14429) on :
Shame on you of_gold Wash your mouth out with soap this instant!!! Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Great news:
Sudan pardons 'teddy bear' row teacher
1 hour, 9 minutes ago
KHARTOUM (AFP) - Sudanese President Omar al-Beshir on Monday pardoned a British woman teacher jailed for 15 days for insulting religion and she will be released in an hour, a presidential advisor told AFP.
"She was pardoned thanks to the mediation of Lord Ahmed and Baroness Warsi. She will be released in about an hour," Mahjoub Fadl Badri told AFP.
A Sudanese court on Thursday jailed Gillian Gibbons to 15 days in prison for insulting religion by naming a teddy bear after the Prophet Mohammed at the exclusive English school where she taught in Khartoum.
Two British Muslim peers, Lord Nazir Ahmed and Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, from the upper house of parliament, were on Monday meeting Beshir at the Republican Palace after flying to Khartoum in order to secure a pardon.
The arrest and jail sentence of the 54-year-old mother of two sparked outrage in Britain and a diplomatic crisis between London and Khartoum, further straining relations already frayed over nearly five years of war in Darfur.
The teddy-bear teacher and Labour's spineless response to a rogue state 22:38pm 2nd December 2007
The case of Gillian Gibbons, the British teacher jailed in Sudan after her pupils named their class teddy-bear Mohammed, has shown up once again the spinelessness of the Foreign Office which has turned Britain into an international laughing stock.
Her freedom has been left to depend on the ostensibly freelance efforts by two Muslim peers, Lord Ahmed and Lady Warsi, who have been in Khartoum lobbying for her release.
Hopefully, Mrs Gibbons will be a step closer to being freed by the time this article lands on breakfast tables.
But the fact remains that, in response to this persecution of a British citizen under Islamic sharia law, the Foreign Secretary's craven response was to say how much Britain respected Islam.
It took four days from her arrest before he summoned the Sudan ambassador, and after she was jailed he summoned him again to express 'in the strongest terms' his concern.
Since we're talking cuddly-toy diplomatic incidents here, this was like being savaged by Winnie The Pooh (with apologies for thus insulting the cultural sensibilities of A. A. Milne).
Mr Miliband should have thrown the ambassador and every Sudanese diplomat out of the country, cancelled all visas and stopped British aid to Sudan.
And he should also have denounced the religious precepts which produced such a barbaric response to a preposterously imagined slight.
Moreover, the only reason Mrs Gibbons was placed in this predicament at all was because, for more than two decades, the British Government has kow-towed to the Islamist rogue regime in Sudan.
STRONGHOLD
Between 1983 and 2005 - well before the largely Muslim-on-Muslim killings in Darfur - Islamists murdered two million Christians and other 'infidels' in southern Sudan and displaced four million more, with thousands sold into slavery.
This genocide was simply ignored by the west.
A peace agreement between the north and south left the capital Khartoum as a stronghold of Islamic sharia law.
Promises by the Islamist government that these brutal doctrines would not apply to non-Muslims turned out to be worthless.
What's more, the north has been steadily Islamising the south, not by war but by coercion, offering aid such as housing, schools or medical help on condition that the recipients convert to Islam.
With the alternative of starvation, destitution and death, Christians and others in the south are steadily succumbing.
Awful as all this is in itself, it poses terrible dangers for the free world. For Sudan's government also provides a sanctuary for Islamic terrorist movements such as Al Qaeda, Hamas and the Algerian Islamic Jihad, and is training terrorists operating in Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Somalia, Ethiopia and Eritrea.
Sudan and the nearby countries of the Horn of Africa are at the centre of an everwidening push by Islamists to control that continent.
In Nigeria, for example, some 12 states are now governed by sharia law, and the same process is happening in Niger, Chad, Cote d'Ivoire, Mauritania and elsewhere.
This is the outcome of a systematic plan, funded largely by Saudi Arabia in league with Khartoum, to Islamise Africa through all available means: violence, internal immigration, intimidation, proliferation of mosques, persecution of 'infidels', proselytism and forced conversions.
The great prize is a new continental front in the war to Islamise the free world. What Afghanistan was to Islamic terrorism in the 1990s, Africa may well be in the next decades.
In other words, Sudan is an increasingly key player behind the threat to this country.
As such, Britain should long ago have cut off all relations with Sudan and treated it as a pariah. Indeed, it should have sought its prosecution for genocide.
But the British Government refuses to acknowledge that a genocide took place there at all. Instead, it has tried to appease Sudan with hundreds of millions of pounds in aid.
Our Government doesn't seem to have a clue. Faced with the shrewd adversary of a global Islamism that thinks strategically and plays the longest game in the world, Britain appears to be in a kind of trance.
This puts all of us at risk, including the many British Muslims who abhor extremism and want to live in freedom.
Few seem to grasp the broader significance of the Gibbons affair. Absurdly, people say it has nothing to do with Islam and it's all just politics instead - failing to grasp that the Islamist onslaught upon the free world is religious politics.
On the BBC website, a dismaying number of people expressed the view that Mrs Gibbons had stupidly only got what she deserved.
Even those who protested said she had made an "innocent mistake" or committed a "cultural faux pas" or that her sentence was "disproportionate".
The implication was that Mrs Gibbons had done something wrong, however small. But she had not. The fault was wholly that of the Sudanese, who should have been denounced without equivocation.
However, instead of recognising the nature and scale of the Islamic threat to the free world, there is a culture of denial in Britain from ministers downwards.
Our political and security establishment won't even use the term "Islamic terrorism", denying that this violence is rooted in religion.
Of course, most British Muslims are peaceful. But as an increasing number of reformist Muslims are now openly saying, to deny the religious roots of this terrorism and extremism is absurd - and knocks the ground from under their own feet.
Thus the Government is refusing to stop the building of the extremist-funded Olympic mega-mosque; is refusing to ban the Islamist recruiters Hizb ut Tahrir; and is opening up to the spread of sharia law, particularly in banking, even though this is an explicit attack on western institutions.
True, a number of Muslim bodies have denounced the sentence on Mrs Gibbons.
They say this is because the whole thing is absurd as she obviously had no intention of criticising Islam. But one wonders whether, had she done so, they would have been so vociferous in her support.
DENOUNCE
Surely no one should be persecuted for causing offence. Opposition to tyranny must be unconditional.
Yet even the peers who have lobbied for her release have been equivocal in the past in the defence of freedom. Thus Lord Ahmed denounced the knighthood for Sir Salman Rushdie, which he likened to honouring those who masterminded the 9/11 attacks.
And Lady Warsi has said that it was "a very dangerous step" to expect British Muslims to weed out the extremism in their midst.
Such ambivalence is most disturbing. All civilised people must surely denounce any enforcement of the most savage and literalist form of Islam.
But where are the protests against the Islamist persecution of Christians throughout Africa and around the world?
Where are the demonstrations against the barbaric treatment of the woman in Saudi Arabia, who was kidnapped and gang-raped but sentenced to 200 lashes for being in the company of men who were not her relatives?
Courageous Muslims in Britain and around the world are engaged in a battle to reform their religion. No one knows whether they will succeed.
But any such reformer must renounce explicitly and unequivocally the Islamic doctrines fuelling such barbarism.
And this country in turn has to get real, and see the plight of Mrs Gibbons as yet another symptom of the great onslaught being mounted against our civilisation - and towards which not one inch of ground must be given if that civilisation is to survive.
web page Posted by Pink cherry (Member # 13979) on :
Undercover....
Melanie Philips is a good writer
It is strange that the resident 'know it all' has become surprisingly quite and still no response to simple questions...... Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
"Friday was always expected to be the flashpoint in Khartoum. Preachers used loudhailers to goad the demonstration into angry Arabic chants of “No tolerance – execution” and “Kill her, kill her by firing squad”.
quote:Say it ain't so ... I thought islam is a "religion" of peace AND tolerance.
Could it possibly be that islam is not a "religion" of tolerance? Isn't that what that guy with the big knife is saying?
Oh no it couldn't be that our government is lying to us when they say islam is a "religion" of peace and tolerance? Not possible ... right?
We must remember that it is only a tiny minority of Muslims who are extremists.
A tiny, tiny minority. Certainly not enough to form a mob as reported. These news stories just have to be false. It's an insult to Islam to publish such stories.
Death to the Publishers!
Friday is the main prayer & sermon day in mosques and also the main riot day on the streets.
Whilst a visit to the church or temple of most religions, with a sobering experience leading to spiritual refreshment or reflection, Islamist clerics use the opportunity to wind up their congregation and get them baying for blood. Its the same in the West Bank & Gaza. Friday is riot day.
The source of the problem: imams.
Here is a peculiar thing. Blacks have been raped and massacred in southern Sudan and in the Darfur region of Sudan, by Arab Muslim militias supported and encouraged by the government of Sudan, and Sudan is presently the largest human rights catastrophe in the world.
That doesn't seem to bother these people. They have been whipped up into a murderous rage over what? A teacher that came to help the students of Sudan allowed her pupils the privilege of naming a teddy bear, and these lunatic imams preaching to the masses don't like the name -so they demand that she be murdered.
This is the mental illness that these imams have. They have a tolerance for rape on a vast scale and for massacres, but they are insult-paranoid, and see insults everywhere in the ordinary affairs of the non-muslim world, which they demand be punished by murder.
The insult-paranoia is reminiscent of psychotic individuals. If you should be in the company of such a person, do not even look into his eyes, because that could be interpreted as an insult, and the result would be an attack.
This sort of insult-paranoia that the hyper-muslims display is unlike any normal behavior, and is best thought of as a kind of mental illness.
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
quote:Originally posted by habeeby: Shame on you of_gold Wash your mouth out with soap this instant!!!
I can't do that habeeby, I'm a Dallasite and although I don't care for football, I support my home team.
Where are you from then? I though the Cowboys were Americas team.
quote: It is strange that the resident 'know it all' has become surprisingly quite and still no response to simple questions......
Might you be speaking of the "student of knowledge"? Posted by WindBetweenEars (Member # 13344) on :
Too bad Aisha isn't around. She probably would have loved this for a present.
Are you a christian or a jew or maybe ?or are you on the booze .
You are right, I don't know if I would trust a Teddy Bear named Muhammad around little girls. [/qb Are we saying Pervert oh you blasphemous :i guess we dont have a puke Graemlin here Posted by WindBetweenEars (Member # 13344) on :
quote:Originally posted by Undercover: The teddy-bear teacher and Labour's spineless response to a rogue state 22:38pm 2nd December 2007
The case of Gillian Gibbons, the British teacher jailed in Sudan after her pupils named their class teddy-bear Mohammed, has shown up once again the spinelessness of the Foreign Office which has turned Britain into an international laughing stock.
Her freedom has been left to depend on the ostensibly freelance efforts by two Muslim peers, Lord Ahmed and Lady Warsi, who have been in Khartoum lobbying for her release.
Hopefully, Mrs Gibbons will be a step closer to being freed by the time this article lands on breakfast tables.
But the fact remains that, in response to this persecution of a British citizen under Islamic sharia law, the Foreign Secretary's craven response was to say how much Britain respected Islam.
It took four days from her arrest before he summoned the Sudan ambassador, and after she was jailed he summoned him again to express 'in the strongest terms' his concern.
Since we're talking cuddly-toy diplomatic incidents here, this was like being savaged by Winnie The Pooh (with apologies for thus insulting the cultural sensibilities of A. A. Milne).
Mr Miliband should have thrown the ambassador and every Sudanese diplomat out of the country, cancelled all visas and stopped British aid to Sudan.
And he should also have denounced the religious precepts which produced such a barbaric response to a preposterously imagined slight.
Moreover, the only reason Mrs Gibbons was placed in this predicament at all was because, for more than two decades, the British Government has kow-towed to the Islamist rogue regime in Sudan.
STRONGHOLD
Between 1983 and 2005 - well before the largely Muslim-on-Muslim killings in Darfur - Islamists murdered two million Christians and other 'infidels' in southern Sudan and displaced four million more, with thousands sold into slavery.
This genocide was simply ignored by the west.
A peace agreement between the north and south left the capital Khartoum as a stronghold of Islamic sharia law.
Promises by the Islamist government that these brutal doctrines would not apply to non-Muslims turned out to be worthless.
What's more, the north has been steadily Islamising the south, not by war but by coercion, offering aid such as housing, schools or medical help on condition that the recipients convert to Islam.
With the alternative of starvation, destitution and death, Christians and others in the south are steadily succumbing.
Awful as all this is in itself, it poses terrible dangers for the free world. For Sudan's government also provides a sanctuary for Islamic terrorist movements such as Al Qaeda, Hamas and the Algerian Islamic Jihad, and is training terrorists operating in Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Somalia, Ethiopia and Eritrea.
Sudan and the nearby countries of the Horn of Africa are at the centre of an everwidening push by Islamists to control that continent.
In Nigeria, for example, some 12 states are now governed by sharia law, and the same process is happening in Niger, Chad, Cote d'Ivoire, Mauritania and elsewhere.
This is the outcome of a systematic plan, funded largely by Saudi Arabia in league with Khartoum, to Islamise Africa through all available means: violence, internal immigration, intimidation, proliferation of mosques, persecution of 'infidels', proselytism and forced conversions.
The great prize is a new continental front in the war to Islamise the free world. What Afghanistan was to Islamic terrorism in the 1990s, Africa may well be in the next decades.
In other words, Sudan is an increasingly key player behind the threat to this country.
As such, Britain should long ago have cut off all relations with Sudan and treated it as a pariah. Indeed, it should have sought its prosecution for genocide.
But the British Government refuses to acknowledge that a genocide took place there at all. Instead, it has tried to appease Sudan with hundreds of millions of pounds in aid.
Our Government doesn't seem to have a clue. Faced with the shrewd adversary of a global Islamism that thinks strategically and plays the longest game in the world, Britain appears to be in a kind of trance.
This puts all of us at risk, including the many British Muslims who abhor extremism and want to live in freedom.
Few seem to grasp the broader significance of the Gibbons affair. Absurdly, people say it has nothing to do with Islam and it's all just politics instead - failing to grasp that the Islamist onslaught upon the free world is religious politics.
On the BBC website, a dismaying number of people expressed the view that Mrs Gibbons had stupidly only got what she deserved.
Even those who protested said she had made an "innocent mistake" or committed a "cultural faux pas" or that her sentence was "disproportionate".
The implication was that Mrs Gibbons had done something wrong, however small. But she had not. The fault was wholly that of the Sudanese, who should have been denounced without equivocation.
However, instead of recognising the nature and scale of the Islamic threat to the free world, there is a culture of denial in Britain from ministers downwards.
Our political and security establishment won't even use the term "Islamic terrorism", denying that this violence is rooted in religion.
Of course, most British Muslims are peaceful. But as an increasing number of reformist Muslims are now openly saying, to deny the religious roots of this terrorism and extremism is absurd - and knocks the ground from under their own feet.
Thus the Government is refusing to stop the building of the extremist-funded Olympic mega-mosque; is refusing to ban the Islamist recruiters Hizb ut Tahrir; and is opening up to the spread of sharia law, particularly in banking, even though this is an explicit attack on western institutions.
True, a number of Muslim bodies have denounced the sentence on Mrs Gibbons.
They say this is because the whole thing is absurd as she obviously had no intention of criticising Islam. But one wonders whether, had she done so, they would have been so vociferous in her support.
DENOUNCE
Surely no one should be persecuted for causing offence. Opposition to tyranny must be unconditional.
Yet even the peers who have lobbied for her release have been equivocal in the past in the defence of freedom. Thus Lord Ahmed denounced the knighthood for Sir Salman Rushdie, which he likened to honouring those who masterminded the 9/11 attacks.
And Lady Warsi has said that it was "a very dangerous step" to expect British Muslims to weed out the extremism in their midst.
Such ambivalence is most disturbing. All civilised people must surely denounce any enforcement of the most savage and literalist form of Islam.
But where are the protests against the Islamist persecution of Christians throughout Africa and around the world?
Where are the demonstrations against the barbaric treatment of the woman in Saudi Arabia, who was kidnapped and gang-raped but sentenced to 200 lashes for being in the company of men who were not her relatives?
Courageous Muslims in Britain and around the world are engaged in a battle to reform their religion. No one knows whether they will succeed.
But any such reformer must renounce explicitly and unequivocally the Islamic doctrines fuelling such barbarism.
And this country in turn has to get real, and see the plight of Mrs Gibbons as yet another symptom of the great onslaught being mounted against our civilisation - and towards which not one inch of ground must be given if that civilisation is to survive.
Do you think the goverment of Sudan would have listened to a Non Muslim delicate "No" You think they are going to listen to someone telling them your faith is wrong do not think so ,so thats why yes to Muslims peers went ,yes its shameless but what other alternative could they had lets just say SHES BEEN PARDONED AND THATS THAT AND I CANT WAIT FOR HER BOOK Posted by Tutandmoane (Member # 12060) on :
'Crazy muslims in Sudan' arrest teacher............Most normal muslims think it was crazy too, and voice that to closed ears......
'2 UK muslims ( according to Undercover of dubious histories ) work hard all weekend to get the teacher pardoned' ......... and manage it
but the bitching and insults go on........ damned if we do and damned if we dont. great proof that all these type of stories are just excuses to bash muslims
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Yet even the peers who have lobbied for her release have been equivocal in the past in the defence of freedom. Thus Lord Ahmed denounced the knighthood for Sir Salman Rushdie, which he likened to honouring those who masterminded the 9/11 attacks.
And Lady Warsi has said that it was "a very dangerous step" to expect British Muslims to weed out the extremism in their midst.
Such ambivalence is most disturbing.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Even those who protested said she had made an "innocent mistake" or committed a "cultural faux pas" or that her sentence was "disproportionate".
The implication was that Mrs Gibbons had done something wrong, however small. But she had not. The fault was wholly that of the Sudanese, who should have been denounced without equivocation.
Posted by Tutandmoane (Member # 12060) on :
She had done something wrong in THEIR culture - which incidently doesnt HAVE to agree with our culture anymore because we put an end to colonialism years ago.
We, the supossedly, "non ignorant, cultured" ones all know it was ridiculous by our standards, they over reacted, and punished her for her ignorance rather than her intentions. We dont subscribe to wearing niqab - the face veil, here, and some women, for whom it is perfectly natural to wear it in their own countries, have been attacked, lost their jobs, and told they should behave according to our society, not theirs.........so, "we" have all the rules and all the answers totally sussed out it seems and all the world should follow. If I had a pound for every foreign tourist I have heard say, in Egypt, when hearing arabic spoken "Why the hell dont they speak English?" Id bee as rich as Mohammed Al Fayed
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
What can't be named Muhammad?
WHO, WHAT, WHY? The Magazine answers...
British teacher Gillian Gibbons has been jailed for 15 days after insulting Islam's Prophet by allowing her pupils in Sudan to name a teddy bear Muhammad. What are the rules on using the name?
The Arabic name Muhammad is now the second most popular name for baby boys in Britain, adding together its 14 different spellings in English.
Muslim families - of which there are an increasing number in the UK - often choose names which honour the Muslim Prophet or show a link to their religion in another way.
But is it acceptable for Muslims to name a toy Muhammad? The arrest and subsequent jailing of Ms Gibbons has sparked debate in Islamic circles. As is the case in so many religious matters, the question is open to interpretation.
The issue has been a vexed one for Muslims through the ages. Some believe that the name can only be given to boys - to give it to an object is idolatry (excessive veneration). Others say that pets and toys can bear the name.
Ibrahim Mogra, chairman of the Muslim Council of Britain's interfaith relations committee and an imam in Leicester, says the name should be reserved for boys. "Some of us believe we are assured of heaven if we name our children Muhammad."
But he says it's ridiculous that Ms Gibbons is being punished for a "miscalculation".
"If someone clearly intends to insult and cause offence with a toy in the form of a pig, for example, and someone knowingly and intentionally names it Muhammad, we know exactly where they're going with it - the idea is to cause offence. If it's just a miscalculation, we don't need to go overboard."
Dilwar Hussain, of the Islamic Foundation, has no problem with a teddy bear called Muhammad. For some years, the Islamic Society sold a soft toy made for British Muslim children named Adam the Prayer Bear. "Adam is also the name of a Prophet."
Would it be acceptable to give a religious name to a pet? In much of the Muslim world, he says, animals are seen as functional and so are rarely given names.
Idolatry
But Adel Darwish, the political editor of The Middle East magazine, says that Muslim children - "like children everywhere" - give their pets the names of characters they liked, be it a religious figure, sports hero or pop singer.
"Millions of Muslim children in Muslim nations give their dolls, pets and teddies Muslim names of the Prophet and his mother, daughters and wives."
Gill Lusk, the associate editor of Africa Confidential and a specialist on Sudan, says the incident will have offended many in the country. As Sudan is a place where religion is never mocked or satirised, it's "unthinkable" that a toy or pet could be given a religious name.
"You're not supposed to give a religious name to any objects - it could be seen as idolatry."
But the majority of Sudanese people won't have wanted to see Ms Gibbons in trouble for the naming of the teddy bear.
"People are very forgiving of foreigners, particularly Europeans. Nobody would think she was trying to offend them - they would just think she was ignorant."
Expert Opinion December 3, 2007 6:00 AM Not Child's Play
Father James V. Schall When Cassius Clay became a Muslim, he called himself “Mohammed.” I have a young student in class whose last name is “Mohammed.” Normally, young girls endow their dolls with names of affection. Evidently, in Muslim theology, to say Jesus Christ is also a man is blasphemy, as is the truth that a Trinity of persons is found within the Godhead’s oneness. To threaten a girl with death for calling a teddy bear “Mohammed” not only insults Mohammed himself but also insults creatures like bears together with all human relationships to God and to the things that He created to be good. No incident could be more helpful in understanding the way such murderous minds work. The disorders in the streets, and threats of death, arise from confusions in minds about the order of rank in God’s creation, and the way we name things that exist. The real blasphemy does not consist in affectionately calling a doll-like teddy bear “Mohammed.” The real blasphemy consists of demanding that the rest of the world, in the noble name of Mohammed, live by such untenable confusions evidently prevalent in the Sudan.
Robert Spencer This incident is another attempt to strong-arm the West into shying away from, and even prohibiting, any critical examination of Islam, precisely at a moment when jihad terrorists use Islamic texts and teachings to justify violence. If you can’t name a teddy bear Mohammad without calls for blood, you certainly can’t call for a critical reevaluation of the Islamic texts and doctrines that jihadists use to justify violence and make recruits among peaceful Muslims.
The OIC and other Islamic entities began calling for blasphemy laws after the cartoon riots of 2006. But the prohibition of blasphemy, whether it takes the form of teddy bears, cartoons, or books about Islam and Mohammad, has no place in a free society. Freedom of speech must encompass the freedom to annoy, to ridicule, and to offend, or it is hollow. The instant any person or ideology is placed off-limits for critical examination and even ridicule, freedom of speech has been replaced by an ideological straitjacket.
Will the West acquiesce in the Islamic world’s efforts to place Islam beyond criticism, when it needs to be reexamined and reformed more than ever? Or will we stand up and defend ourselves and our societal principles of free speech and free inquiry? The teddy-bear incident, as ridiculous as it is, only underscores the urgency of these questions.
Tawfik Hamid We have much to learn from the teddy-bear riots in Sudan. We see, in stark relief, the hypocrisy of many Islamic organizations in the West; in democratic societies they demand freedom of religion and civil rights — whether it is the right to wear the hijab, or have prayer rooms in football stadiums, or be provided with Islamic foot baths in college restrooms. In contrast, Westerners in Islamic nations lack basic civil rights. Today, because a student named a stuffed animal “Mohammed,” Gilliam Gibbons rots in jail, and large mobs clamor for her decapitation...
I believe we all should be thankful that the nightmare is over. Think about the same story would have happened in Saudi Arabia - the poor woman would have lost her head already.... Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote:Clifford D. May This affair will not come out well — not even if Gillian Gibbons is eventually freed. Why not? Because we’re still going to be treated to an outpouring of nonsense about how she didn’t mean to cause offense, and how we all have to learn to be more sensitive toward “the Muslim world.”
As for the value of tolerance, demonstrators in Khartoum this week made their point clearly: “No tolerance - execution.” Others yelled: “No one lives who insults the prophet.” The spokesman for the Sudanese embassy in London, Khalid Al Mubarak, spun the same idea more diplomatically: “If a lesson can be learned, it’s that anybody going abroad should learn about the culture and orientation before taking any job.”
Would some reporter mind asking him if that applies equally to Muslims in Europe who ought to learn about freedom and what it implies when it comes to satirical cartoons? And if that doesn’t apply, why not? (I’ll offer a theory in a moment.)
Pay a visit to the website of the Organization of the Islamic Conference. Note that the OIC has not a word to say about Gibbons’s predicament (as of Sunday night). The Arab League has been silent, too.
Posted by Undercover (Member # 12979) on :
quote: Jonathan Foreman As for the absurd blasphemy charge in the teddy-bear case, it should be clear by now that the standard cowardly response of Western societies to “Muslim anger” helps no-one; indeed it empowers extremists and encourages an Islamic sensibility that is both hypersensitive and bullying. Perhaps we need to show that, though we are no longer have an “honor culture,” we too can be dangerously offended, especially by the uncivilized religious intolerance of certain Muslim states.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Mrs. Gibbons arrived safely back in the UK this morning.
Well funny how a UK Lord goes to Sudan to rescue the teddy teacher but no one goes to rescue the 1.5 million blacks killed and 4 million displaced by the Islamists.
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The 1971 case was a suspended sentence. That shows how seriously the old blasphemy law is now taken in England. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Hopefully, it will be removed soon - there have been calls to do this for some time. The 1971 case, I had to google, as you didn't provide a link.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Like it not that teddy bear has a name now even if some idiots threw it out of control . ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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