Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "A lady was punished because of a cat which she had imprisoned till it died. She entered the (Hell) Fire because of it, for she neither gave it food nor water as she had imprisoned it, nor set it free to eat from the vermin of the earth."
Posted by vwvwv (Member # 18213) on :
What about Allah Apostle's killing of black dogs?
From Bukhari Vol. 4, #540
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.
From Abu Dawud #2839
Abd Allah B. Mughaffal reported the apostle of Allah as saying: Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.
The Hadith's note for #2839 says, "The prophet did not order the killing of all the dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them.
Posted by vwvwv (Member # 18213) on :
How is that Muhammad hated black dogs but banned the killing of snakes?
A jinn may appear in a form of a dog as confirmed in Sahih Muslim that the Prophet (p.b.u.h) said: “A black dog is devil”. Ibn Taimiya (May Allah’s Mercy be upon him) said: ‘The black dog is a devil, and the jinn often appear in its form, since the black color can bring the devilish powers more than other colors"
The jinn can appear in the shape of snakes. Thus, the Messenger (p.b.u.h.) banned killing home snakes lest may any of them be a Muslim jinn. Abu Said al-Khudri (R.a) said that Allah’s Messenger (p.b.u.h) said: “There are Muslim Jinn in al-Madina: If one appears to you, in any form, you are to admonish it to depart for three days. If it appears after that, you must kill it, for it is truly a devil". [Reported by Muslim]
The Apostle of Allah said: Some snakes are jinn; so when anyone sees one of them in his house, he should give it a warning three times. If it return (after that), he should kill it, for it is a devil. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “There are three types of jinn: one that flies through the air, one that are snakes and dogs, and one which stay in places and travel about.”
"Do not kill the jinn, except every one(snake) with two streaks on the back, for they cause miscarriages and take away the eyesight. Therefore, kill them." The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Snakes are the forms of the transmutations of the shape of the jinn in the same way that the apes and swine were transmutations of the tribe of Israel." [This hadith was recorded by at-Tabaraani and Abu ash-Shaikh in Al-Udhma with a sahih chain. See Muhammad Nasir al-Din al-Albani, Silsilaat al-Ahadith al-Sahiha, vol. 3, p
Posted by vwvwv (Member # 18213) on :
I also believe that sending someone to Hell for all eternity, for killing a cat, is a severe and vastly disproportional punishment.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "A lady was punished because of a cat which she had imprisoned till it died. She entered the (Hell) Fire because of it, for she neither gave it food nor water as she had imprisoned it, nor set it free to eat from the vermin of the earth."
27.65 Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment)
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
As far as I see the hadith It talks about the past nation. It can be a temporarily punishment though. I have no idea about the direct meanning which the prophet meant.
But from what we get from the Hadith. We learn that We should treat animals gently, If we cant feed them, we better set them free to eat from outside. That is it.
Allah told the prophet the story through inspiration and he told it. We have to believe in what the prophet tells us because He simply explain to us Quran the way we should learn it. Quran
and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
16-44 Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: But from what we get from the Hadith. We learn that We should treat animals gently
A person with compassion and morals doesn't need a hadith to tell them that animals shouldn't be mistreated.
Posted by metinoot (Member # 17031) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwvwv: I also believe that sending someone to Hell for all eternity, for killing a cat, is a severe and vastly disproportional punishment.
And your Hadiths, are weak. You do understand that just because you find something on the internet doesn't mean its worthwhile information.
Hadiths, have to be strong and actually written down during the lifetime of the Final Prophet in order to be useful.
I dare you to find a corresponding Surah!
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: But from what we get from the Hadith. We learn that We should treat animals gently
A person with compassion and morals doesn't need a hadith to tell them that animals shouldn't be mistreated.
Right!
I see Hadith or Quran restore back compassions and morals to people who lost theirs.
Posted by vwvwv (Member # 18213) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot: And your Hadiths, are weak.
The hadith about the ordering of the killing of black dogs is Sahih Bukhari (which means authentic), reported from Muslim too, and several other narrations that support each other.
I don't know if the other hadiths are weak, but I figured I should post them anyway, seeing that Once_upon_a_time's hadith is also weak.
Posted by vwvwv (Member # 18213) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: I see Hadith or Quran restore back compassions and morals to people who lost theirs.
I very much doubt that.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: As far as I see the hadith It talks about the past nation. It can be a temporarily punishment though. I have no idea about the direct meanning which the prophet meant.
even talking about past nations the prophet would NOT know if they are in hell or not as Quran says no one but Alla knows that. Muhammed didn't get a fax from heaven and hell to update him on who got where.
quote:But from what we get from the Hadith. We learn that We should treat animals gently, If we cant feed them, we better set them free to eat from outside. That is it.
You really need a hadith to tell you that? These are obedient creatures of Allah and you need to be told to treat them right?
quote:Allah told the prophet the story through inspiration and he told it. We have to believe in what the prophet tells us because He simply explain to us Quran the way we should learn it.
No, someone over 200 years later told the story to Bukhari in the attempt to contradict Quran.
quote: Quran
and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
16-44
Yes, he was to RECITE Quran to them and nothing else. The Quran IS the explanation, Allah says IN Quran is is for HIM to explain it to US IN IT. 7.174 Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us)
20.113 Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
Do you think Allah sent the Quran and explained it somewhere else when it is clear that Quran is the explanation?
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by vwvwv:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
I see Hadith or Quran restore back compassions and morals to people who lost theirs.
I very much doubt that.
Ditto.
And don't even get me started on how animals are being treated in Egypt! Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by metinoot:
quote:Originally posted by vwvwv: I also believe that sending someone to Hell for all eternity, for killing a cat, is a severe and vastly disproportional punishment.
And your Hadiths, are weak. You do understand that just because you find something on the internet doesn't mean its worthwhile information.
references were given for these hadith but not for the ones Once Upon a Time is posting, I see you don't have a go at the hadithist himself for this rather than the anti-hadithist.
quote:Hadiths, have to be strong and actually written down during the lifetime of the Final Prophet in order to be useful.
Rubbish! According to hadith the prophet had forbidden writing down anything from him but Quran. There is not one hadith that was written down while he was alive still in existance today apart from QURAN.
quote:I dare you to find a corresponding Surah!
shows your ignorance, there is no coresponding surah to ANY hadith unless it is one totally contradicting what the hadith says.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: But from what we get from the Hadith. We learn that We should treat animals gently
A person with compassion and morals doesn't need a hadith to tell them that animals shouldn't be mistreated.
Right!
I see Hadith or Quran restore back compassions and morals to people who lost theirs.
compassion and morals?
Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."
Coresponding surah: 2.256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
4.92 (part) Never should a believer kill a believer
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
If you understand it correctly, there is no contradictions in what you post Ayisha.
Believers accept what the prophet said with clean and satsfied Heart. Prophet Muhammed wants to teach us the importance of prayers in Masjid. It could be acceptable in that culture to say it.
Please think of it twice before you post. Take into account lots of factors, the culture of the prophet and what was accepted that time to be said.
What is important to us from Hadith/sunna is the meaning and the lesson we get from it.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by vwvwv:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
I see Hadith or Quran restore back compassions and morals to people who lost theirs.
I very much doubt that.
Ditto.
And don't even get me started on how animals are being treated in Egypt!
Islam represents itself by itself(throught the word of God and the teachings of the prophet(hadith)) not by Muslims in Egypt or in Germany.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: If you understand it correctly, there is no contradictions in what you post Ayisha.
How can there be no contradiction between do not kill and burn them in their houses? I understand it perfectly well.
quote:Believers accept what the prophet said with clean and satsfied Heart. Prophet Muhammed wants to teach us the importance of prayers in Masjid. It could be acceptable in that culture to say it.
Believers in what? Allah said what is in Quran and a believer accepts that the prophet followed Allah, not that he totally contradicts Allah and makes up his own rules.
quote:Please think of it twice before you post. Take into account lots of factors, the culture of the prophet and what was accepted that time to be said.
I think you should think twice what it is you are following, because it is obviously not Quran and not from Allah and therefore a lie on the prophet
quote:What is important to us from Hadith/sunna is the meaning and the lesson we get from it.
What is important to me is the lesson I get from Allah and Quran, and that was there is no compulsion in religion, one cannot be forced into any of it and Allah alone will deal with the punishment. The lesson you are getting from these so called hadith is the opposite of that and one should pray through fear of being burnt alive by those who don't follow Allah but follow some made up hadith by the obvious enemies of the prophet.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: What is important to us from Hadith/sunna is the meaning and the lesson we get from it.
The true sunnah can only be found in the Qur'an, everything else is hearsay.
Not because there is something you could not understand, we can say this is not from the prophet or from God.
If you reject the Sunna, It is your choice but Do not ever try to convince me that authentic Sunna/ Hadith are not part of Islam.
You obviously could not understand Quran as well if you do Reject Sunna and hadith of the Prophet of God.
Quran
and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
16-44 Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: What is important to us from Hadith/sunna is the meaning and the lesson we get from it.
The true sunnah can only be found in the Qur'an, everything else is hearsay.
Because you did not understand it!
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Do not ever try to convince me that authentic Sunna/ Hadith are not part of Islam.
I am not trying to convince you of anything, I couldn't care less what others believe as long as they don't try to push their beliefs on me.
So far, you have been the one telling people that they *have* to accept hadith in order to be "true believers". I simply don't share that opinion, that's all.
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Not because there is something you could not understand
You obviously could not understand Quran
Because you did not understand it!
Look, you don't know me, and I don't recall having any serious conversation with you. So I highly doubt that you are in a position to judge what I understand or don't understand.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
What are you?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Not because there is something you could not understand, we can say this is not from the prophet or from God.
I understood it perfectly well. If it is contradictory to Quran than I CAN and WILL say it is not from a prophet of God.
quote:If you reject the Sunna, It is your choice but Do not ever try to convince me that authentic Sunna/ Hadith are not part of Islam.
Sunnah is in Quran. I am not trying to convince you of anything, if you prefer to be following another book where you can find anything you wish (68.36-38) that is up to you, but don't try to convince me that a prophet of God said to burn people in their homes when that same prophet of God knows full well there is no compulsion and not to kill like that!
quote:You obviously could not understand Quran as well if you do Reject Sunna and hadith of the Prophet of God.
Quran
and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
16-44
6.114 Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
20.113 Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
75.19 Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear):
ALLAH explains it IN it. If you think that burning the houses with people in them explains ANY of Allahs verses then please post which one!
Posted by Chef Mick (Member # 11209) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: What are you?
she is a lovely woman that i am privileged to have met in person last month.. very smart and very intelligent, and she knows what she is talking about Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: don't try to convince me that a prophet of God said to burn people in their homes
… or that a prophet of God stoned adulterous monkeys. Or claimed that women are deficient in intelligence and religion.
It always amazes me that those who claim to love and follow the prophet seem to be oblivious to the fact that so many ahadeeth paint him in a really bad light, portray him as an idiot, a misogynist, a violent man etc. pp.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: don't try to convince me that a prophet of God said to burn people in their homes
… or that a prophet of God stoned adulterous monkeys. Or claimed that women are deficient in intelligence and religion.
It always amazes me that those who claim to love and follow the prophet seem to be oblivious to the fact that so many ahadeeth paint him in a really bad light, portray him as an idiot, a misogynist, a violent man etc. pp.
Absolutely! Do they not SEE that the prophet in Quran, the prophet of Allah, cannot be the same guy these stories are about? They are a total contradiction to the man in Quran.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
Qur'an Surah 6:38 - Animal rights in the Qur'an
Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Rahim
How does the Qur'an present the relation between animals and humans? Should animals have rights? Do animals have a soul? Do animals have eternal life? Surah 6:38 provides the answer.
This is a foundational verse in the Holy Qur’an. The verse, along with the one preceding it and the one following it, provides a key to understanding the ontological essence of animals and their relation to humans and God.
Let’s look at the first part of the revelation:
"There is not an animal that exists on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but that they form communities like you."
Here the Spirit clearly reveals the equality between humans and other creatures. The Quranic revelation completes the Abrahamic tradition by revealing that humans and animals are co-equals before God, thus setting a clear precedent for animal rights. Moreover, the revelation startlingly concludes:
"And they all shall be gathered to their Lord in the end."
Not only are animals like humans (and thus deserving of rights), but they also have a soul, share in eternal life and will be gathered together in the Kingdom of Heaven. The revelation given to Muhammad (PBUH) includes animals as partners of humans, gathered eternally together before Allah.
Surah 6:38 answers the unbelievers of 6:37 who constantly complained that “Why is not a Sign sent down to him from his Lord?” In other words, why doesn’t the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) bring signs (miracles) as did Jesus (PBUH)? Why doesn't he raise people from the dead?
The answer that the Spirit gives is to direct us back towards the greatest of all miracles – the earth (life) in all its splendor and recognize the miracle of creation, of beauty. Our animal brethren are the miracle of Allah!
But most people, unfortunately, refuse to recognize the fact that humans and animals are equals. Few people are prepared to grant animals their rights or to recognize that every being has an eternal soul (be it mammal, bird, fish insect, etc.).
The Qur’an is clear that those who reject this sign (6:39) -
“Are deaf and dumb, in the midst of darkness profound.”
The Sufi is one who recognizes the eternal soul in every being and joins it in praising Allah; the Sufi aids, protects and cares for animals whenever possible.
And what, we ask, would happen if all Muslims and Sufis gave the necessary weight to Surah 6:38 that it rightfully deserves? Certainly Islam and Sufism would be transformed. No animal would ever be injured. All Muslims and Sufis would consider it their highest duty to protect all animals. (Joining Jains and Buddhists) Muslims and Sufis would help prepare the earth for the Kingdom, when animals and humans will join together in peace and co-existence. So mote it be!
The Qur’an is clear that those who reject this sign (6:39) -
“Are deaf and dumb, in the midst of darkness profound.”
Obviously Once Upon a time didn't understand this without the explanation of the hadith, not the one that says kill black dogs obviously Still waiting for that surah to come up.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
Could you explain to us this verse? Quran
and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
16-44 Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Could you explain to us this verse? Quran
and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
16-44
don't you understand it?
Might help if you post the whole verse, not just a portion of it. What is it with you hadithists and only posting partial verses? Is it to mislead?
16.44(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
Now who is 'them'?
the previous tell you: 16.43 And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
So the message was the same message that Allah sent with men before Muhammed.
Now what does this mean?
10.37 This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them
The arabic verse is clearer but the translation is not that Much.
I understand why non Arabic Muslims got into this trap and disbelieve. One needs to understand classical Arabic perfectly to talk and explain Quran.
Quran and sunna are the one who God wants us to follow. The verse in Arabic is clearer. the English verse is also clear but you can move the meaning a little bit to suit what you want to prove.
And Believe me you are wasting your Belief and your time if you think Prophet Muhammed came with Quran a lone. we believe the Quran is the word of Allah and we believe the prophet Muhammed teaching that was not inside the Quran and that one which is related to religion is also commanded to do like what is said in Quran. The messenger of Allah is atrue believer and a teacher and a mercy upon all the mankind.
Quran clearly Says it as well. We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.
He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
Ayisha, Believe whatever you believe. It is not my fault that you ara not a classical arabic speaker. Ok? I have told you and explained to you but your hear is that dark that does not respond. DO whatever you want and your will be asked for all that in the judgment day.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
I do not actually say we worship muhammed when we follow him But I do say we do like muhammed because he was sent by God to teach Us.
When we follow sunna( the way that the prophet muhammed understands the religion ) I do not say we worship Muhammed. We worship Allah the supreme ultimate God..
Islam is basically an old religion. The message we have is Quran with detailed explanation from Muahmmed PBUH.
We follow muhammed the way he understands the Quran putting in consideration the culture He was born in it.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Could you explain to us this verse?
lnstead of repeating arguments that have been discussed many times, it would be useful to have a look at previous discussions, for example the one I linked to above.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: What is it with you hadithists and only posting partial verses? Is it to mislead?
I've never understood that either, and I am still wondering if it is done intentionally or because people don't know better.
Speaking of which … I am surprised 59:7 has not popped up yet. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them
The arabic verse is clearer but the translation is not that Much.
I understand why non Arabic Muslims got into this trap and disbelieve. One needs to understand classical Arabic perfectly to talk and explain Quran.
Quran and sunna are the one who God wants us to follow. The verse in Arabic is clearer. the English verse is also clear but you can move the meaning a little bit to suit what you want to prove.
And Believe me you are wasting your Belief and your time if you think Prophet Muhammed came with Quran a lone. we believe the Quran is the word of Allah and we believe the prophet Muhammed teaching that was not inside the Quran and that one which is related to religion is also commanded to do like what is said in Quran. The messenger of Allah is atrue believer and a teacher and a mercy upon all the mankind.
Quran clearly Says it as well. We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.
He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
Ayisha, Believe whatever you believe. It is not my fault that you ara not a classical arabic speaker. Ok? I have told you and explained to you but your hear is that dark that does not respond. DO whatever you want and your will be asked for all that in the judgment day.
oh the 'you dont speak Arabic' one now
There are many verses in Quran that tell you it is Allah who explains it IN it. There are many verses that tell you that Muhammed was to RECITE it ONLY, the recitation IS the explanation. Muhammed followed what Allah told him.
Now here you are telling me that he recited Quran in Arabic and they still needed an explanation? 41.3 A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;-
39.28 (It is) a Qur'an in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
20.113 Thus have We sent this down - an arabic Qur'an - and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
41.44 Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"
see that? If it was NOT in Arabic they would have asked why is it NOT explained in detail IN IT.
43.3 We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
Quran is to be followed, nothing else
75.18 But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital (as promulgated):
75.19 Nay more, it is for Us to explain it (and make it clear):
Do you think Obey Allah and obey the messenger means 2 things? the messenger obeyed Allah, he followed Quran. If you think he made up another set of 'recitations' to be followed outside Quran then you are lost.
You have not explained the black dogs hadith and I can bring countless other 'sahih' hadith that totally contradict Quran in whatever language you want. If you as an Arabic speaker are of those who do NOT find it clear and fully explained in the Arabic language and need yet another explanation to it from Bukhari then show me ONE verse in Quran and ONE hadith that explains it clearer. I challenge you
You have not answered this: "Now what does this mean?
10.37 This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds. "
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: I do not actually say we worship muhammed when we follow him But I do say we do like muhammed because he was sent by God to teach Us.
When we follow sunna( the way that the prophet muhammed understands the religion ) I do not say we worship Muhammed. We worship Allah the supreme ultimate God..
Islam is basically an old religion. The message we have is Quran with detailed explanation from Muahmmed PBUH.
We follow muhammed the way he understands the Quran putting in consideration the culture He was born in it.
So you follow the culture?
If you think you are following Quran as Muhammed understood it then you are following conjecture and not following Allah.
If you think that hadith or sunnah gives a detailed understanding of Quran at ANY point then show me ONE verse that is unclear and ONE hadith explanation to it.
Are you so blinded that you think the Book of Allah was NOT as detailed and fully explained IN it as Allah says it IS and needed another set of sayings that were brought over 200 years AFTER Muhammed died then its not my heart that is darkened and not responding but yours. You are of those that have been told and still will not see.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
Ayisha Dear. We have no choice in it .The Quran is in Arabic and you speak No Arabic. You have no knowledge about the Prophet Life, and the culture.
There are some verse that can give you multiple meanings. If we left the Door open to disabled non arabic speakers, we will end in corruption of the true meaning of Quran.
There is never ever a contradiction between Quran and Hadith. If you see a contradiction, this is only due to you lack the sufficient knowledge to understand. There are a lot of probabilties in the meanings. the correct one is the one that came from the prophet.
It is a fuller explanation yes, because It says follow the prophet to get the right way. Do you understand why it is complete.
There are lots of word in Quran comes in Brief and the prophet explains it in details.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
If you think that hadith or sunnah gives a detailed understanding of Quran at ANY point then show me ONE verse that is unclear and ONE hadith explanation to it.
It is not about being unclear. It is about having multiple meanings and different interpretations.
Tell us what does the first verse in Al-baqra mean?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Ayisha Dear. We have no choice in it .The Quran is in Arabic and you speak No Arabic. You have no knowledge about the Prophet Life, and the culture.
You are making gross assumptions there.
Why does anyone need to understand the life of the prophet and the culture to understand the message from Allah?
quote:There are some verse that can give you multiple meanings. If we left the Door open to disabled non arabic speakers, we will end in corruption of the true meaning of Quran.
disabled?? Now I am disabled? You HAVE corrupted the true meaning of Quran WITH hadith!
quote:There is never ever a contradiction between Quran and Hadith. If you see a contradiction, this is only due to you lack the sufficient knowledge to understand. There are a lot of probabilties in the meanings. the correct one is the one that came from the prophet.
I have shown you contradictions!! The correct one that came from the prophet is QURAN!
quote:It is a fuller explanation yes, because It says follow the prophet to get the right way. Do you understand why it is complete.
Then show me ONE verse and ONE hadith that fully explain that verse.
quote:There are lots of word in Quran comes in Brief and the prophet explains it in details.
SHOW ME ONE!
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
Why does anyone need to understand the life of the prophet and the culture to understand the message from Allah?
If you are a scholar you should. if not, what you say is liable to mistakes and error since you have no sufficient knowledge.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
If you think that hadith or sunnah gives a detailed understanding of Quran at ANY point then show me ONE verse that is unclear and ONE hadith explanation to it.
It is not about being unclear. It is about having multiple meanings and different interpretations.
Tell us what does the first verse in Al-baqra mean?
SO YOU IGNORE MY CHALLENGE?
How about YOU bring the hadith that explains what A.L.M means if you speak the truth.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Why does anyone need to understand the life of the prophet and the culture to understand the message from Allah?
If you are a scholar you should. if not, what you say is liable to mistakes and error since you have no sufficient knowledge.
I have full knowledge of the life of the prophet and of what YOU follow which is why I can challenge you and you cannot accept that challenge and are avoiding it. You obviously follow blindly and do NOT have the knowledge you claim I dont have.
Now bring me one verse that is NOT explained in detail then the hadith that explains it.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
If you think that hadith or sunnah gives a detailed understanding of Quran at ANY point then show me ONE verse that is unclear and ONE hadith explanation to it.
It is not about being unclear. It is about having multiple meanings and different interpretations.
Tell us what does the first verse in Al-baqra mean?
SO YOU IGNORE MY CHALLENGE?
How about YOU bring the hadith that explains what A.L.M means if you speak the truth.
Woow. Your challenge! Do not respond to my question with another Question.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
If you think that hadith or sunnah gives a detailed understanding of Quran at ANY point then show me ONE verse that is unclear and ONE hadith explanation to it.
It is not about being unclear. It is about having multiple meanings and different interpretations.
Tell us what does the first verse in Al-baqra mean?
SO YOU IGNORE MY CHALLENGE?
How about YOU bring the hadith that explains what A.L.M means if you speak the truth.
Woow. Your challenge! Do not respond to my question with another Question.
No once upon a time, that is what YOU are doing. I have asked you various questions and you have answered NONE and responded by asking me questions which I have answered.
Dont worry though, I didn't expect you to, your type are pretty much all the same in that respect. Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
'And serve thy Lord until there come unto thee the Hour that is Certain. ''
There are multiple explanation of the 'hour that is certain'. some people say that it is a degree upon which you should stop worshipping.
some people says it is the death.
Can you tell us which one is right without looking in to Sunna?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: 'And serve thy Lord until there come unto thee the Hour that is Certain. ''
There are multiple explanation of the 'hour that is certain'. some people say that it is a degree upon which you should stop worshipping.
some people says it is the death.
Can you tell us which one is right without looking in to Sunna?
ROFL you still didn't provide the hadith that explains this and do you REALLY need a hadith to explain THIS?
I will be fair with you. You provide the hadith that explains it and then I will provide the ayat that explains it. Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: If you are a scholar you should. if not, what you say is liable to mistakes and error
Scholars also make mistakes and errors.
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: The Quran is in Arabic and you speak No Arabic.
Your assumption that only people who don't know Arabic reject ahadeeth is wrong and has been addressed in the other thread.
It would be useful if you had a look there before repeating arguments that have already been discussed and asking people to repeat things they have already elaborated on.
That is – if you are interested in a serious exchange of thoughts. From what I've read of you so far, this doesn't seem to be the case though; all you do is lecturing, patronizing and insulting people. Is that in ahadeeth too? Because the Qur'an tells us to argue "in the best possible manner" and not to be arrogant.
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: There is never ever a contradiction between Quran and Hadith. If you see a contradiction, this is only due to you lack the sufficient knowledge to understand.
There are countless ahadeeth that contradict the Qur'an, and you don't need decades of study etc. in order to see this, a functioning brain is enough in most cases.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Seems once upon a time is not here for a reasoned debate or exchange of thoughts and only to lecture, patronize and insult, or he is still looking for the hadith that explains the Quran verse he posted.
I must say I am disappointed he hasn't found one yet, even one that says what he claimed people say 'The Hour' is about. Posted by Rahala (Member # 16703) on :
BTW ,can anybody give me the address of those Arabs who you claim to reject Ahadeeth ?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rahala: BTW ,can anybody give me the address of those Arabs who you claim to reject Ahadeeth ?
huh? what Arabs? Who are you asking Rahala?
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Seems once upon a time is not here for a reasoned debate or exchange of thoughts and only to lecture, patronize and insult, or he is still looking for the hadith that explains the Quran verse he posted.
I must say I am disappointed he hasn't found one yet, even one that says what he claimed people say 'The Hour' is about.
I do not find myself interested to complete a discussion with you since you look so childish and want nothing but to prove to us that you are strong in knowledge while you can't even speak Arabic. ( I do not actually tell that all non arabic speakers are not that much in Knowledge but they should not behave this way)
It is time wasting to continue a discussion with you since you behave like a child. If you were actually free and keen for a discussion you will never suspend the discussion on my response to my question. But you are not that Keen.
Better Go study something in Quran. You can find multiple verse there showing you to respect the Prophet of God and obey him.
Posted by Once upon a time (Member # 13545) on :
I think your lack of understanding of what Hadith is can be the problem. Hadith is simply a news/story/evidence on which it is taken for a decision taken in term of some legal issue in Islam. Since you have never been studying about Fiqh, Tafsir,..............Other islamic sciences., How come I can explain to you these stuff while your knowledge of Islamic terms are zero. You can't obviously learn these while you sit on your computer. You need to do efforts for it.
Please Educate Yourself.
and I do never claim I am a 100% aware of all the Islamic sciences/necessary knowledge. May God Teach me and all of Us.
Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: You can find multiple verse there showing you to respect the Prophet of God and obey him.
You can find multiple verses asking you to obey various prophets – for example those.
Obeying a prophet is not the same as obeying Bukhari, Muslim et al. Big difference.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: [qb] Seems once upon a time is not here for a reasoned debate or exchange of thoughts and only to lecture, patronize and insult, or he is still looking for the hadith that explains the Quran verse he posted.
I must say I am disappointed he hasn't found one yet, even one that says what he claimed people say 'The Hour' is about.
I do not find myself interested to complete a discussion with you since you look so childish and want nothing but to prove to us that you are strong in knowledge while you can't even speak Arabic. ( I do not actually tell that all non arabic speakers are not that much in Knowledge but they should not behave this way)
It is time wasting to continue a discussion with you since you behave like a child. If you were actually free and keen for a discussion you will never suspend the discussion on my response to my question. But you are not that Keen.
I have not suspended the discussion, YOU have as you cannot find any hadith that explains Quran as you claimed they did. You are the one acting like a child and as such I gave you fair chance to bring the hadith that explains what the 'hour' is, you cant so as normal with sunni brainwashed android syndrome you resort to childish insults. And yes it appears I AM stronger in knowledge than you yet you tell ME to study when obviously I have. I am still waiting for your response on 'the hour' or at least tell me what YOU think from sunna, as you seem to think it can only be found there.
quote:Better Go study something in Quran. You can find multiple verse there showing you to respect the Prophet of God and obey him.
YOU better go study Quran as you will find in it wisdom and explanations which you seem to think were put in another book. I do respect the prophet it seems more than you do as I follow what he followed, the Recital, and I obey that. It may be wise to look at the verses that say obey the prophet also say "obey ALLAH and obey the prophet" because obeying Allah meant following HIS words through HIS prophets and not some made up stuff OUTSIDE His words.
Quran also said to follow the religion of Abraham, yet you ignore that too.
It may be wise for you to go study Quran and look at what ALLAH said, ALLAH is the one you are supposed to be following, just like Muhammed and all prophets before him did.
You respect and obey the prophet by following the recital he recited word for word from Allah, not by following 'the majority' who follow nothing but conjecture.
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
very smart and very intelligent, and she knows what she is talking about ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)