Since our conversation in the last post drifted off on Yemen and Ethiopia I felt it relevent to discuss the historical implications of the Yemani populations. Some facts about the Yemani population can be diserned from the following:
Journal of World Prehistory
12 (1): 55-119, March 1998
Southwest Arabia During the Holocene: Recent Archaeological Developments
Christopher Edens, T.J. Wilkinson
Abstract
Recent fieldwork has considerably increased our knowledge of early
Holocene settlement in Southwest Arabia.
Neolithic settlement occured
within an environmental context of increased monsoonal moisture that
continued during the mid-Holocene.
A now well-attested Bronze Age
exemplified by village and town settlements occupied by sedentary
farmers developed toward the end of the mid-Holocene moist interval.
The high plateau of Yemen was an early focus for the development of
Bronze Age complex society, the economy of which relied upon terrace
rain fed and runoff agriculture.
On the fringes of the Arabian Desert,
the precursors of the Sabaean literate civilization have been traced
back to between 3600 and 2800 B.P., and even earlier, so that a
virtually continuous archaeological record can now be desribe for
parts of Yemen.
In contrast to the highlands these societies relied
upon food production from large scale irrigation systems dependent
upon capricious wadi floods.
Bronze Age settlement, while showing some
links with the southern Levant, now shows equal or stronger linkages
with the Horn of Africa across the Red Sea. Although some regions of
Yemen show breaks in occupation, others show continuity into the
Sabaean period when a series of major towns grew up in response to the
increased incense trade with the north. It is now clear that these
civilizations grew up on the foundations of earlier Bronze Age complex
societies.
The Yemani with the most relationship with the ancient Sabeans and Himyarite Arabs are the following:
The three tribes
that speak Mahra are known to other Arabs as the Ahl al Hadara. They
are the Qarra, Mahra and Harasis with parts of other tribes (WT
p.47.) The language is derived from the language of the Sabaeans,
Minaeans and Himyarites. The Mahra with other Southern Arabian
peoples seem aligned to the Hamitic race of north-east Africa. The
Mahra are believed to be descended from the Habasha, who colonised
Ethiopia in the first millennium BC (WT p. 198). Many Bait Kathir
understand the Mahri language. The Qarra and Mahra have almost
beardless faces, fuzzy hair and dark pigmentation (WP171).
<http://www.globalconnections.co.uk/pdfs/MAHRAArabs.pdf>>.
quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
Since our conversation in the last post drifted off on Yemen and Ethiopia I felt it relevent to discuss the historical implications of the Yemani populations. Some facts about the Yemani population can be diserned from the following:Journal of World Prehistory
12 (1): 55-119, March 1998
Southwest Arabia During the Holocene: Recent Archaeological DevelopmentsChristopher Edens, T.J. Wilkinson
Abstract
Recent fieldwork has considerably increased our knowledge of early
Holocene settlement in Southwest Arabia.Neolithic settlement occured
within an environmental context of increased monsoonal moisture that
continued during the mid-Holocene.A now well-attested Bronze Age
exemplified by village and town settlements occupied by sedentary
farmers developed toward the end of the mid-Holocene moist interval.
The high plateau of Yemen was an early focus for the development of
Bronze Age complex society, the economy of which relied upon terrace
rain fed and runoff agriculture.On the fringes of the Arabian Desert,
the precursors of the Sabaean literate civilization have been traced
back to between 3600 and 2800 B.P., and even earlier, so that a
virtually continuous archaeological record can now be desribe for
parts of Yemen.
In contrast to the highlands these societies relied
upon food production from large scale irrigation systems dependent
upon capricious wadi floods.Bronze Age settlement, while showing some
links with the southern Levant, now shows equal or stronger linkages
with the Horn of Africa across the Red Sea. Although some regions of
Yemen show breaks in occupation, others show continuity into the
Sabaean period when a series of major towns grew up in response to the
increased incense trade with the north. It is now clear that these
civilizations grew up on the foundations of earlier Bronze Age complex
societies.
The Yemani with the most relationship with the ancient Sabeans and Himyarite Arabs are the following:The three tribes
that speak Mahra are known to other Arabs as the Ahl al Hadara. They
are the Qarra, Mahra and Harasis with parts of other tribes (WT
p.47.) [b]The language is derived from the language of the Sabaeans,
Minaeans and Himyarites. The Mahra with other Southern Arabian
peoples seem aligned to the Hamitic race of north-east Africa. The
Mahra are believed to be descended from the Habasha, who colonised
Ethiopia in the first millennium BC (WT p. 198). Many Bait Kathir
understand the Mahri language. The Qarra and Mahra have almost
beardless faces, fuzzy hair and dark pigmentation (WP171).
<http://www.globalconnections.co.uk/pdfs/MAHRAArabs.pdf>>.[/B]
Orionix, Stormfront folks, and other diffusionists have from time to time looked towards Ethiopia, from long discredited sources, as way of disconnecting the horn of Africa people from the rest of the continent. At least now, many European anthropologists recognize the absurdity of continuing the propaganda that has outlived its usefulness by the aformentioned folks. Anyone whose actually seen Ethiopians, should be able to tell the difference between them and the Yemanis. Of course, there are some black Yemani people, descedants of east African immigrants. Accordingly, these folks resemble their east Africans ancestors. But by and large, it would be absolutely ludicrous for anyone who has actually seen Ethiopians to confuse them with Yemani. It is likely that one would mistake a Yemani for an east African, rather than the other way around. The underline idea behind this attention on east Africans by diffusionists, doesn't merely stem from genuine interest in these groups, as their history is often ignored, but it lies on the idea that Egyptians have strong biological affinities with these groups.
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
Orionix, Stormfront folks, and other diffusionists have from time to time looked towards Ethiopia, from long discredited sources, as way of disconnecting the horn of Africa people from the rest of the continent. At least now, many European anthropologists recognize the absurdity of continuing the propaganda that has outlived its usefulness by the aformentioned folks. Anyone whose actually seen Ethiopians, should be able to tell the difference between them and the Yemanis. Of course, there are some black Yemani people, descedants of east African immigrants. Accordingly, these folks resemble their east Africans ancestors. But by and large, it would be absolutely ludicrous for anyone who has actually seen Ethiopians to confuse them with Yemani. It is likely that one would mistake a Yemani for an east African, rather than the other way around. The underline idea behind this attention on east Africans by diffusionists, doesn't merely stem from genuine interest in these groups, as their history is often ignored, but it lies on the idea that Egyptians have strong biological affinities with these groups.
The present-day Ethiopians and present-day Yemenis look relatively similar because geographically they are very close to each other so a continuous genetic drift and migration has taken place between these two across the Red Sea. Culturally they share a lot in common.
Actually all the people who inhabit earth today are the descendants of East Africans. The genetic legacy of all modern humans is predominantly of African origin. Africans were present on earth way before Europeans.
So now that the genetic makup of humans is revealed blacks can really open up a new line of racism and reverse descrimnation against white people.
But it's wrong, think about that...
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
The present-day Ethiopians and present-day Yemenis look relatively similar because geographically they are very close to each other so a continuous genetic drift and migration has taken place between these two across the Red Sea.
This is what many here have been trying to open your mind to. You come across answers, but your radar never picks up the point. The point here is that, naturally portions of the Yemeni population will cluster with East Africans, because of the back and forth migrations from those regions. So, it isn't as though the Ethiopians resemble the Yemeni, it is the other way around. To put it figuratively, you've been making your case as though saying "the parent resembles the child", which is just ridiculous. In addition, you've been attempting to use this as some sort of vindication that Ethiopians aren't black Africans. If you've actually seen an Ethiopian, which I seriously doubt, there is no way you can come to the conclusion that they aren't black Africans. Their clustering with people in Yemen, has no bearing on their being black.
quote:
Orionix:
Culturally they share a lot in common.
quote:
Orionix:
Actually all the people who inhabit earth today are the descendants of East Africans. The genetic legacy of all modern humans is predominantly of African origin. Africans were present on earth way before Europeans.
Something you've finally come to realize. Therefore, your constant ranting of Africans having foreign phenotypes tells us much about your state of mind.
quote:
Orionix:
So now that the genetic makup of humans is revealed blacks can really open up a new line of racism and reverse descrimnation against white people.
You and the likes of the Stormfront gangs, are the ones guilty of racism by using bogus phenotype criteria and useless cluster data, as some sort of vindication that Africans are somehow the derivative of some back migration to the continent. This is what Keita sought to disprove, and he did it very well. African achievements are theirs alone, and not the result of some back migration, and this especially includes the Nile Valley Civilization. It is your likes, along the lines of the Stormfront gangs, that have tried to use genetic data as a tool to explain off African accomplishments as the result of some sort of back migration, when indeed facts state otherwise. All that is done here, is to use accurate data to expose these lies for what they are. I have yet to see black folks go to such great lengths to deny "whites" of their accomplishments, which is yet another blatant lie you are desperately resorting to. White supremacists and their satellites, as you have once again exemplified, are the masters of their craft, when it comes to racism: I doubt blacks will ever come close to matching that. Now this is something for you to think about!
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 13 November 2004).]
Yes the original people of the Arabian peninsula were Black East Africans, and would not have been morphologically distinct based on crossing back and forth across the gulf of Aden. (Arabia and Yemen are as tropical in latitude as East Africa and "indiginous" people would be Black in any case)
The asiatic groups defined TODAY as Arab and Semites are mixtures of Black Peoples who migrated from Africa, and pale skinned peoples from cold adapted Eurasia.
Ancient Arabia was called Kush before it was known as Arabia.
That's why the notion of genetic relationship between Yemen and Ethiopia is true, but also trite.
The attempt (in another thread) to read into this anything about "Negroid vs. Caucasoid" genetic mixture is non-sequitor, as there is no such thing as Negroid and caucasoid genetically.
Ausar's post actually demonstrates this, but I fear it is too subtle and will go over the head of his intended audience. Oh well....
quote:
Originally posted by Dada Afre:
I was under the impression that the people on the African and Arabian coasts of the Red Sea were the same ethnically, linguistically and culturally at one point in time. Isn't Arabia the oldest colony of Ethiopia?
Yes but rasol is just a racist with an agenda.
No matter how much you tell these guys that present-day Ethiopians cluster together with Yemenis they still insist otherwise. That is because they are brainwashed into believing that Ethiopians are an undeniabely black race as the rest of Africa.
By about 1000 b.c.e. Semitic-speaking peoples had entered the northern highlands, perhaps from southern Arabia. There they probably intermarried with the existing population. These people were the ancestors of today's Tigre, Tigray, and Amhara (as well as other, smaller ethnic groups), who speak languages belonging to the Semitic family, which includes Arabic and Hebrew.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
I fail to see the difference racially between Ethiopians and other Africans.
quote:
Originally posted by Dada Afre:
I don't knowI fail to see the difference racially between Ethiopians and other Africans.
I know you guys see all Africans as part of the same race (black). However this is not the reality of African biodiveristy.
North Africans do not cluster with other sub-Saharan Africans and Ethiopians are more closely related to Yemenis than to other east African groups as the Bantus.
No matter how much you tell these guys that present-day Ethiopians cluster together with Yemenis they still insist otherwise. That is because they are brainwashed into believing that Ethiopians are an undeniabely black race as the rest of Africa.
By about 1000 b.c.e. Semitic-speaking peoples had entered the northern highlands, perhaps from southern Arabia. There they probably intermarried with the existing population. These people were the ancestors of today's Tigre, Tigray, and Amhara (as well as other, smaller ethnic groups), who speak languages belonging to the Semitic family, which includes Arabic and Hebrew.
Encarta Africana - Ethiopia{/QUOTE]
The debate is wheater Proto-Semetic developed in Eastern Africa and spread to Yemen or the reverse as proposed by the link. Most likely the Proto-Semetic ancestors of most Semetic speaking people originated in Eastern Africa as opposed to migration from Himyarite Arabic groups.
In most cases the article presented fails to mention that the oldest Semetic speakers in Somalia are ethnically distinct from the northern Arab groups. Yemani Arabs are divided into Qahtani and Adnan. The Qahtani are the southern Arabic groups.
See the following on Proto-Semetic:
Arabic
Background and history
Arabic belongs to the Semitic language family. The members of this family have a recorded history going bak thousands of years--one of the most extensive continuous archives of documents belonging to any human language group. The Semitic languages eventually took root and flourished in the Mediterranean Basin area, especially in the Tigris-Euphrates river basin and in the coastal areas of the Levant, but where the home of area of "proto-Semitic" was located is still the object of dispute among scholars, Once, the Arabian Peninsula was thought to have been the "cradle" of proto-Semitic, but nowadays many scholars advocate the view that it originated somewhere in East Africa, probably in the area of Somalia/Ethiopia. Interestingly, both these areas are now dominated lingustically by the two youngest members of the Semitic language family: Arabic and Amharic, both of which emerged in the mid-fourth century C.E.
http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm
quote:They're not. Ethiopia is not even an ethnic group. It is like most African nations a modern geopolitical entity consisting of various mostly Black African ethnic groups also found in neighboring countries, including Kenya, Sudan, Uganda, Somalia, and Eritrea.
I fail to see the difference racially between Ethiopians and other Africans.
Ethiopia is a Greek word, which originally referred to what is now the Sudan.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
The debate is wheater Proto-Semetic developed in Eastern Africa and spread to Yemen or the reverse as proposed by the link. Most likely the Proto-Semetic ancestors of most Semetic speaking people originated in Eastern Africa as opposed to migration from Himyarite Arabic groups.
Which would further devastate Eurocentric conception as it would now place so called Afro Asiatic entirely within Africa (in terms of primary branches) as opposed to almost entirely, which is the case now. It's also clear that Semitic and Berber were among the last branches to emerge from the East African cushitic root languages.
quote:
Ausar wrote:Arabic
Background and history
Arabic belongs to the Semitic language family. The members of this family have a recorded history going bak thousands of years--one of the most extensive continuous archives of documents belonging to any human language group. The Semitic languages eventually took root and flourished in the Mediterranean Basin area, especially in the Tigris-Euphrates river basin and in the coastal areas of the Levant, but where the home of area of "proto-Semitic" was located is still the object of dispute among scholars, Once, the Arabian Peninsula was thought to have been the "cradle" of proto-Semitic, but nowadays many scholars advocate the view that it originated somewhere in East Africa, probably in the area of Somalia/Ethiopia. Interestingly, both these areas are now dominated lingustically by the two youngest members of the Semitic language family: Arabic and Amharic, both of which emerged in the mid-fourth century C.E. [URL=http://www.indiana.edu/~arabic/arabic_history.htm[/URL]
Well the semitic language is a subgroup of the larger Afro-Asiatic branch which is largely located in Africa.
The Afro-Asiatic family must have originated in Africa (probably the present-day Sahara or Nubia), where all branches except Semitic are exclusively found. [u]The Semites then must have migrated, probably at first to Arabia from East Africa, a movement later reversed by the Ethiopian Semites.[/u]
So the ethnic groups who inhabit coatal Yemen today are not siginificatly different from those who inhabit Ethiopia and culturally they share more in common than with other Africans like the (SE African) Bantus. This is true since 3000 years ago.
Genetic studies detects a mixed ancestry for the tribes who inhabit Somalia and Ethiopia. You cannot deny the mixed heritage of these people over the last 3000 years.
Of course i'm not talking about the south of east Africa which is predominantlyBantu.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:Above statement could be applied to any people on earth. Love your strawman arguments.
You cannot deny the mixed heritage of these people over the last 3000 years
quote:
Originally posted by Dada Afre:
I don't knowI fail to see the difference racially between Ethiopians and other Africans.
Don't mind Orionix; the guy doesn't even know where Ethiopia is on the map. He uses data in the same way as the folks of Stormfront, even in the face of overwhelming evidence against him. He apparently hasn't seen Ethiopians before. I'll give him a chance to actually see Ethiopians in the following, because they aren't an extinct species you know:
I don't know how black this guy has to be before Orionix can recognize it as such.
More...
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
This is true since 3000 years ago.Genetic studies detects a mixed ancestry for the tribes who inhabit Somalia and Ethiopia. You cannot deny the mixed heritage of these people over the last 3000 years.
Of course i'm not talking about the south of east Africa which is predominantlyBantu
Of course the Tigre, Somali, and Amharan and possibly some Oromo have some ancestry from across the Red Sea. The original people of the Horn of Africa are the Oromo people. Oromic is classified as an Afro-Asiatic language,and they are the original people of the Horn of Africa. Costal Somalis have some admixture from Arab migrants that came from various periods but Somalis further inland probabaly donot have much Arabic admixture.
The problem I have is you don't seem to acknowleadge the pressence of people who lived in Yemen before the advent of the Afro-Asiatic speakers. Not all people in Yemen were ethnically Semetic,and some were probabaly akin to the Veddoid people and Austric people scattered across the early Arabian peninsula and Mesopotamia.
Not only Bantu live in Southern Ethiopia and Somalia but so do Nilotic people. The Omo[don't confuse with Oromo] being one of them.
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
Don't mind Orionix; the guy doesn't even know where Ethiopia is on the map. He uses data in the same way as the folks of Stormfront, even in the face of overwhelming evidence against him. He's apparently haven't seen Ethiopians. I'll give him a chance to actually see Ethiopians in the following, because they aren't an extinct species you know:
I don't know how black this guy has to be before Orionix can recognize it as such.
You know you guys are really funny posting pictures of starving people with no food or homes. Americans always like to show other people's missery.
Here are healthy Ethiopian women:
Source: Heart of Asia - Ethiopia
Take a trip to Yemen and i can assure you will see similar looking women (not the starving ones of course).
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
Here's some pictures of Oromo people in Ethiopia:
Here is an Amhara women:
[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
Of course the Tigre, Somali, and Amharan and possibly some Oromo have some ancestry from across the Red Sea. The original people of the Horn of Africa are the Oromo people. Oromic is classified as an Afro-Asiatic language,and they are the original people of the Horn of Africa. Costal Somalis have some admixture from Arab migrants that came from various periods but Somalis further inland probabaly donot have much Arabic admixture.The problem I have is you don't seem to acknowleadge the pressence of people who lived in Yemen before the advent of the Afro-Asiatic speakers. Not all people in Yemen were ethnically Semetic,and some were probabaly akin to the Veddoid people and Austric people scattered across the early Arabian peninsula and Mesopotamia.
Not only Bantu live in Southern Ethiopia and Somalia but so do Nilotic people. The Omo [don't confuse with Oromo] being one of them.
The Galla are Cushitic and were originally from Northern Somalia.
SW Ethiopians surely have less influence from Yemen and more Bantu from Kenya but the genetic difference between them and the Amhara (the dominant ethnic group) is not big.
Like mentioned in the genetic study, correctly, both historic and archaeological evidence indicate tight cultural connections, over millennia (since the last 3,000 thousand years and especially after WW II when in-migrations from Ethiopia and Somalia into Yemen have occurred continuously).
Both Ethiopians and Yemenis contain an almost-equal proportion of Eurasian-specific M and N and African-specific lineages and therefore cluster together in a multidimensional scaling plot between Near Eastern (Yemenis do not cluster with other NE) and sub-Saharan African populations.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
Take a trip to Yemen and i can assure you will see similar looking women
...which would somehow vindicate you in that the Ethiopians resemble the Yemeni women, instead of the other way around. You are only arguing against yourself, because everyone here acknowledges that East Africans have migrated to that part of Asia, and therefore there would naturally be people who like them in that area. It is a common sense logic that seems to have evaded you. 
quote:
Orionix:
Like mentioned in the genetic study, correctly, both historic and archaeological evidence indicate tight cultural connections
Go ahead and give us details of these tight cultural connections, you keep talking about, aside from obvious influences from migrations.
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
That's from a mail order bride website. Most of those women are Amharan but the majority of the people in Ethiopia are Oromo. Of course they dress them up real nice to become somebody's mailorder bride.
I think the Amhara is the dominant ethnc group.
Most of the people of the horn of Africa are just brown. Their phenotype is quite distinct from other sub-Saharan Africans.
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
Go ahead and give us details of these tight cultural connections, you keep talking about, aside from obvious influences from migrations.
I see you don't know **** about Ethiopia. keep your ignorance to yourself.
Ethiopia had closer cultural affinities with Arabia (or SW Asia) since at least 3,000 years ago.
The present day population is intermediate. Remember that you cannot argue against genetic studies so you are in no position to talk at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
I think the Amhara is the dominant ethnc group.
Another half-baked study from Orionix: what is new?
quote:
Most of the people of the horn of Africa are just brown. Their phenotype is quite distinct from other sub-Saharan Africans.
What are other Sub-Saharan African phenotype? Amuse us with more crackpot science!
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
I think the Amhara is the dominant ethnc group.Most of the people of the horn of Africa are just brown. Their phenotype is quite distinct from other sub-Saharan Africans.
You seem to be an extremely confused individual:
Ethiopia, up to the reign of Haile Selassie was an Empire dominated by the Amhara minority ethnic group. The majority ethnic group, in terms of population are the Oromo.
If you knew better, you would be embarrased by your last statement...
Ausar, some time ago, I was christened an 'honorary Amhara' by my Amhara buddies, -have had a coupla Amhara lady friends, so let me tell ya,it ain't the clothes! These are some beautiful women (Tigrinyas and Oromos too!)...
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
I see you don't know **** about Ethiopia. keep your ignorance to yourself.
You have no idea how much I know. Better yet, I have actually been to that country, which is more than I can say for you.
My uninformed one, you have shown us perfect examples of pure ignorance in all of your posts. All of them are merely a figment of your imagination.
"Anteh wooshat bataam" : Amharic (Habasha)language characterized in English; know what it means? I doubt it! 
quote:
Orionix:
Ethiopia had closer cultural affinities with Arabia (or SW Asia) since at least 3,000 years ago.The present day population is intermediate. Remember that you cannot argue against genetic studies so you are in no position to talk at all.
I don't need to argue against your so-called plagiarized remnants of obsolete genetics, when we have you available to argue against yourself.
quote:
Originally posted by Wally:
You seem to be an extremely confused individual:Ethiopia, up to the reign of Haile Selassie was an Empire dominated by the Amhara [b]minority ethnic group. The majority ethnic group, in terms of population are the Oromo.
If you knew better, you would be embarrased by your last statement...[/B]
The Oromo are just Cushitic, originally from N Somalia. They later migrated to the region of Lake Turkana (Lake Rudolf). In the mid-16th century they began to move into the Ethiopian highlands. Never a united group, they were not a serious threat to the Ethiopian state.
This doesn't change the fact that Ethiopians are closer related to Yemenis than to Kenyan Bantus for example. Not only genetically but also culturally (much more important since race is based on culture).
I guess you're also the guy who wrote this site: www.geocities.com/wally_mo/
Kemet did not refer to the people's race or skin color, it referred to the land (better said Land of the Nile). It was in reference to the dark, fertile soil that remained after the Nile floodwaters had recededthe. They also used another term, Deshret, or “the Red Land,” a designation for the desert sands that burned under the blazing Sun.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
I don't need to argue against your so-called plagiarized remnants of obsolete genetics, when we have you available to argue against yourself.
Shut up, you don't know **** about Ethiopians. I better yet just let you drown into your ignorance.
I understand 3x more genetics than you do so you are in no position to talk. Also both archeological and genetic evidences proves you wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
The Oromo are just Cushitic, originally from N Somalia. They later migrated to the region of Lake Turkana (Lake Rudolf). In the mid-16th century they began to move into the Ethiopian highlands. Never a united group, they were not a serious threat to the Ethiopian state.This doesn't change the fact that Ethiopians are closer related to Yemenis than to Kenyan Bantus for example. Not only genetically but also culturally (much more important since race is based on culture).
Kemet did not refer to the people's race or skin color, it referred to the land (better said Land of the Nile). It was in reference to the dark, fertile soil that remained after the Nile floodwaters had recededthe. They also used another term, Deshret, or “the Red Land,” a designation for the desert sands that burned under the blazing Sun.
Notice how he didn't actually refute what was said about the Orominya, but simply turned to a different subject; Wally's website.
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
Don't leave out the Nuer folks of Gambella, Ethiopia. These people are as dark as the Dinkas of Sudan.
The Nuer and the Dinka are a minority in Ethiopia as a whole since Gambela is stated in the western tip of Ethiopia.
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
Notice how he didn't actually refute what was said about the Orominya, but simply turned to a different subject; Wally's website.
There is nothing to refute. You cannot seperate the Aramha from the Oromo. The Oromo were originally from North Somalia.
quote:
The Oromo are just Cushitic, originally from N Somalia.
However, today some are actually more closely related to some Bantu southern Africans than they are to the Cushites of Africa proper.
To me your "Yemen troll" is unexciting; it's like you're trying to prove that Mississippi (USA) clusters with Nigeria (or Egypt for that matter). Yes....and?
And even so, you make a mess of it, finding a way to be wrong when you should be right.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
Shut up, you don't know **** about Ethiopians. I better yet just let you drown into your ignorance.
I have to make it clear to you, that I don't take orders from anyone; not even amateurs like yourself. Your reaction above, just goes to show how frail your mind really is.
quote:
Orionix:
I understand 3x more genetics than you do so you are in no position to talk. Also both archeological and genetic evidences proves you wrong.
I believe you meant to say that you can plagiarize genetic studies "3x" effectively than I can, not to mention your inability to understand those very same plagiarized material. I am impressed.
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
I believe you meant to say that you can plagiarize genetic studies "3x" effectively than I can, not to mention your inability to understand those very same plagiarized material. I am impressed.
You have to except the fact that Africans are not all the same, nor culturally or phenotypically. The ancient Egyptians could not have looked like Kenyan Bantus because this was never their geographical origin. They looked more "mixed race" or intermediate.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
There is nothing to refute. You cannot seperate the Aramha from the Oromo. The Oromo were originally from North Somalia.
You are right there is nothing to refute, because you can't refute facts. You might not be able to separate the two, but the reality is that they are distinct ethnic groups. The more you talk about Ethiopians, the more it becomes apparent that you aren't informed about the region.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
You have to except the fact that Africans are not all the same, nor culturally or phenotypically. The ancient Egyptians could not have looked like Kenyan Bantus because this was never their geographical origin. They looked more "mixed race" or intermediate.
quote:
Orionix:
The Nuer and the Dinka are a minority in Ethiopia as a whole since Gambela is stated in the western tip of Ethiopia.
Doesn't change the fact that they are still Ethiopians. If you continue to treat Ethiopia as a homogenous ethnic country, you will fail miserably. Might want to take that into consideration!
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
You keep shooting yourself in the foot. In general the Egyptian population is heterogeneous, but he original Egyptians, particularly those who reside in Upper Egypt are black Africans, whether or not you can swallow the truth. There is no such thing as a pure race, so you are just making a mole hill out of nothing, by constantly referring to the unheard of "intermediate" race. We all acknowledge that Africans have various cultures and phenotypes, except you. You are the one, who is in the dark about this. This is why you limit certain phenotypes to certain people. Advice: there is no such thing as "Ethiopian" phenotype.
Either way the people of Upper Egypt share more in common with Lower Egyptians than they do with southern Sudanesne or other Zairen Bantu groups.
"...the present study on the Y-chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country.
It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."
(Lucotte et al., Am J Phys Anthro, 2003)
..The majority of these people were mulattos or brown Africans, not black Africans though...
quote:...or Bantu phenotype; there is such a thing as a supertropical phenotype found among Black Africans, such as predynastic "Egyptians" which have been found to have affinities with other Black African including early Kenyan series, and modern Kenyan groups such as the Masai share this phenotype as well; of course.
Advice: there is no such thing as "Ethiopian" phenotype.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
[B] ..The majority of these people were mulattos or brown Africans, not black Africans though...
Of course there was a lot of mulattos, with the unification of upper and lower Egypt, but the sizeable and dominant population (predominantly black Egyptians) was in Upper Egypt, particularly in the early era and the middle dynastic era. It was only over time, as more foreigners came into Egypt, did sizeable populations began to appear in the Lower Egyptian regions. You keep dancing around this reality, by saying the population remained the same.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
Advice: there is no such thing as "Ethiopian" phenotype.
quote:
supercar wrote:...or Bantu phenotype; there is such a thing as a supertropical phenotype found among Black Africans, such as predynastic "Egyptians" which have been found to have affinities with other Black African including early Kenyan series, and modern Kenyan groups such as the Masai share this phenotype as well; of course.
I agree with that there are no descrete human phenotypes on earth but there are genetic clines.
Genetically the Egyptians shared more in common with Lower Egyptians than with southern Sudanese for example. And yes i would call them mulattos or just brown Africans.
I can give you all the genetic studies from 1994 to the present-day:
1. Cavalli-Sforza et al. (1994) compared populations from throughout the world using extensive genetic data. The North African populations grouped with West Eurasian (European, Middle East) populations rather than sub-Saharan Africans.
2. Di Rienzo et al. (1994) studied the relationship of three samples (taken from Egyptians, Sardinians, and sub-Saharan Africans), using mitochondrial DNA and simple sequence repeats. In terms of genetic distance, the Egyptian sample was closer to the Sardinian sample than to the sub-Saharan African sample.
3. Hammer et al. (1997) used seven different methods to compute population trees of world populations, using Y-chromosome data. All seven methods grouped the Egyptians with the non-African populations rather than with the sub-Saharan Africans. Egyptians' genetic profile resembles that of South Europeans more than the other regional groups in the study.
4. Poloni et al. (1997). Egyptians and a few other African populations (Tunisians, Algerians, and even Ethiopians) showed a stronger Y-chromosome similarity to non-African Mediterraneans than to the remainder of Africans mostly from south of the Sahara.
5. Population history of north Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers.
6. "The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa.... From 29 [Merotic Nubian] individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26.7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa 1 (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68.7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution."
(C.L. Fox, Ann Hum Biol, 1997)
7. "To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of 'northern' or 'southern' affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan.
"...we can infer that the migration of northern mtDNA types to the south is older than the migration of southern mtDNA types to the north (or that there has been less gene flow from north to south than from south to north along the Nile River Valley) and that Egypt and Nubia have had more genetic contact than either has had with the southern Sudan. Moreover, we can tentatively infer that these migrations occurred recently enough to fall within the period of the documented historical record of human populations in the Nile River Valley."
(Krings et al., Am J Hum Genet, 1999)
8. "...the present study on the Y-chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country.
"It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."
(Lucotte et al., Am J Phys Anthro, 2003)
9. Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt.
Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, Kefi R, Paris F, Gayraud RP, Spadoni JL, El-Chenawi F, Beraud-Colomb E.
INSERM U387 - Laboratoire d'Immunologie, Hopital Sainte Marguerite, 270 Boulevard Sainte Marguerite, BP29, 13274 Marseille Cedex 09, France.
The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population.
PMID: 14748828 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
Of course there was a lot of mulattos, with the unification of upper and lower Egypt, but the sizeable and dominant population (predominantly black Egyptians) was in Upper Egypt, particularly in the early era and the middle dynastic era. It was only over time, as more foreigners came into Egypt, did sizeable populations began to appear in the Lower Egyptian regions. You keep dancing around this reality, by saying the population remained the same.
You are forgetting about the lighter skinned Berbers who were present in Egypt since at leat 3000 BC.
Upper Egyptians were never black Africans, they were just brown Africans. People exaggerate how they really looked like.
The ancient Egyptians were mulattos (brown Africans). Saying they were black is not exactly the reality.
quote:that's not what was said. what was said is that Ethiopia and Bantu are not phenotypes.
I agree with that there are no descrete human phenotypes on earth
quote:
You are forgetting about the lighter skinned Berbers who were present in Egypt since at leat 3000 BC.
quote:
Thought Writes:Really. Where can I find ANY evidence of this?
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
You are forgetting about the lighter skinned Berbers who were present in Egypt since at leat 3000 BC.Upper Egyptians were never black Africans, they were just brown Africans. People exaggerate how they really looked like.
The ancient Egyptians were mulattos (brown Africans). Saying they were black is not exactly the reality.
Go ahead and fantasize about the original people of the Horn of Africa and the Sahara being some other race, besides the tropical Africans (black Africans) who moved to the Nile Valley regions in the pre-dynastic era. There is a name for such science; it is called crackpot science.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
that's not what was said. What was said is that Ethiopia and Bantu are not phenotypes.Who the hell said that? But most Egyptians did not look like the Bantus.
[B][QUOTE]but then why should you comprehend us any better than you comprehend the stormfront source material you fling about with mindless abandon; the last one of which showed the strongest affinities between location B and C; B is Upper Egypt; C is Nubia. At least pay attention to the specfics of your own gibberish.
B = Upper Egypt
C = Lower Nubia
The study says that proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan.
2. This does not prove the Egyptians were black Africans.
3. This is not from Stormfront. The earlier studies were performed by Cavalli-Sforza (1994). He basically found out that North Africans do not cluster together with sub-Saharan Africans.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:Actually this concept (not the word, which is offensive) most accurately applies to the origins of the Arabs and some other Asiatic semitic groups. It doesn't apply to Upper Egypt or Nubia any more than it applies to all of non Nordic Europe, including Greece, Italy, Spain, France.
The ancient Egyptians were mulattos
Indeed with 100's of thousands of African in France (much to the chagrin of French xenophobes), France could also be clustered as "intermediate", and then called "mulatto".
now, continue your troll.........
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
Go ahead and fantasize about the original people of the Horn of Africa and the Sahara being some other race, besides the tropical Africans (black Africans) who moved to the Nile Valley regions in the pre-dynastic era. There is a name for such science; it is called crackpot science.
The only crackpot is Afrocentric and Eurocentric science.
The Egyptians were not black. They were just brown Africans. The contemporary Egyptians are basically very similar to how they looked once.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
Actually this concept (not the word, which is offensive) most accurately applies to the origins of the Arabs and some other Asiatic semitic groups. It doesn't apply to Upper Egypt or Nubia any more than it applies to all of non Nordic Europe, including Greece, Italy, Spain, France.Indeed with 100's of thousands of African in France (much to the chagrin of French xenophobes), France could also be clustered as "intermediate", and then called "mulatto".
now, continue your troll.........
BS!
There is nothing offensive about mulatto and secondly southern Europeans are not mulattos, so are Near Easterns.
You are really talking out of complete sheer of ignorance.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:you ignore the specific data...
The study says that proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan.
* haplotypes IV is a typical southern haplotypes, being almost absent in A (1.2%), (delta)
* but preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). (Upper Egypt and Nubia)
* Haplotype V is a characteristic Arab haplotypes, with a northern geographic distribution in Egypt
* Haplotype IV, characteristic of sub-Saharan populations, shows a southern geographical distribution in Egypt.
* Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Upper Egypt and Nubia)
compared to the north (11.7% in A)
This study like most of your material has been discussed many times before on this site
(search for Ausar's A SOUTHERN EGYPTIAN's astute comments on it)
It is agreed that it is actually surprising that the basic Egypto-Nubian affinity, and contrasting distinction with the Asiatic north is still in tact even after thousands of years of Asian incursion.
quote:Lol. You cited the study. It doesn't prove much of anything, except the relationship between upper Egyptians and Nubians. That you pretend not to see this, and cite the study for what it says about "Zarian Bantu" ROTFL!, shows how pathetically desparate your act is becoming.
This does not prove the Egyptians were black Africans.
Tell us...what unique insights you glean (via stormfront) from this study about the Maori of New Zealand? The Inuit of Canada? The Sherpa of Nepal? If you can't see what's there (the Nubian Egyptian relationship), then at least amuse us by telling us more about what's not. 
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
BS! There is nothing offensive about mulatto and secondly southern Europeans are not mulattos, so are Near Easterns.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
Lol. You cited the study. It doesn't prove much of anything, except the relationship between upper Egyptians and Nubians. That you pretend not to see this, and cite the study for what it says about "Zarian Bantu" ROTFL!, shows how pathetically desparate your act is becoming.
There was a relationship between Lower Nubians and Upper Egyptians but again they shared much more in common with Lower Egyptians (probably Lybians) than with southern Sudanese.
So we can sum it up this way...
There are 4 clines:
A: Lower Egypt
B: Upper Egypt
C: Lower Nubia
D: Southern Sudan
A differs from B + C but not as significatly as B + C differ from D.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
LOL, Gored that Ox, did we?
What, you think southern Europeans are mulattos (bi-racial)? Next you gonna say the Greeks are also black.
quote:
So we can sum it up this way...
There are 4 clines:
In fact B + C (upper egypt and lower nubia) cluster closely whereas A does not, this is significant because the these are contiguous geography within one country, and yet the delta is genetically distinct, and does NOT cluster with Upper Egypt or Lower Nubia.
Now...please supply data for mystery Locale D.
Samples taken from where?
How many were sampled?
Percentile of relevant Haplotypes IV, V, IX
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
LOL, Gored that Ox, did we?
quote:
What, you think southern Europeans are mulattos
It's your concept, not mine. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Goes for Spanish Bulls, Latin trolls too.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
BS!There is nothing offensive about mulatto and secondly southern Europeans are not mulattos, so are Near Easterns.
You are really talking out of complete sheer of ignorance.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
You are so biased and lost in your view that AE were mulatto, raceless, african but not black people that you can't even make a coherent statement without contridicting your prior statements.
Guys arguing with him is futile and null. Its like you guys going to war with nuclear weapons and him throwing rocks. Not only does he have no grounds to stand on,but he can't even be logical enough to comprehend the incongruence of his dismantled and irrational thought process and arguments. Honest its like he's arguing with himself.
So just one more time orinx(sp) tell me how we have only pure blacks and whites range from pale to brown. I guess white is the human prototype.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
It's your concept, not mine. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Goes for Spanish Bulls, Latin trolls too.
You need to shut the hell up.
It's your war against the white man who you hate so much. Not mine. As you said this actually applies to you, fight with the sword you created or die by it.
This actually goes for all humans...
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
ooh. don't be sad, we like all people. esp. trolls. now, just google up some of those lost Berbers and Cline D data so we can all keep laughing.
quote:
Originally posted by Keino:
You are so biased and lost in your view that AE were mulatto, raceless, african but not black people that you can't even make a coherent statement without contridicting your prior statements.
You are biased with your Blackcentric bullshit.
Blacks had a part in ancient Egypt but the majority of the population were brown Africans, people who weren't black and weren't white either.
Now go hunt the white man who you despise so much.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
You know you guys are really funny posting pictures of starving people with no food or homes. Americans always like to show other people's missery.Here are healthy Ethiopian women:
Source: Heart of Asia - Ethiopia
Take a trip to Yemen and i can assure you will see similar looking women (not the starving ones of course).
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
Pretty girls! They would fit into most black african countries not just Ethiopia, or the rest of the horn of Africa; they will also fit nicely into the western black population without anyone noticing. They resemble many people in my countries! Now tell me how western black are mulattoes...LOL
You need to get a grip on the reality of black people.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
You need to shut the hell up.It's your war against the white man who you hate so much. Not mine. As you said this actually applies to you, fight with the sword you created or die by it.
This actually goes for all humans...
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).][This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
You are so redundant in your empty rhetoric! No one here from my point of view have a problem with any people namely white. We are just stating the facts that many WHITE egyptolgist have stated and proven that AE's origin is black and as a whole they were what we call today Black. Herodotus and many other WHITE scholars share of view. I guess they hate themself too. FACTS are facts whether or not you or I like them. How facts are manipulated is another thing. You are fighting a losing battle, but alteast you're going down with your intellectually bankrupt ship! LMAO!
I honesty pitty you!
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
You are biased with your Blackcentric bullshit.Blacks had a part in ancient Egypt but the majority of the population were brown Africans, people who weren't black and weren't white either.
Now go hunt the white man who you despise so much.
Michael Jackson's music video, "Remember The Time" is a perfect depiction of the various black types in Ancient Egypt. you should watch the video, its very good!
quote:
Originally posted by Keino:
You are so redundant in your empty rhetoric! No one here from my point of view have a problem with any people namely white. We are just stating the facts that many WHITE egyptolgist have stated and proven that AE's origin is black and as a whole they were what we call today Black. Herodotus and many other WHITE scholars share of view. I guess they hate themself too. FACTS are facts whether or not you or I like them. How facts are manipulated is another thing. You are fighting a losing battle, but alteast you're going down with your intellectually bankrupt ship! LMAO!I honesty pitty you!
Ok so you actually say that you're white?
Most whites would not like this kind of racism against them but i'm not speaking for them.
Why are you guys so angry about the fact that Egypt was a "mulatto" civilization with a lighter north and darker south?
There were few "white" Egyptians but a lot of mulatto (Berbers and Asiatics in the north) just as it is today.
The black Upper Egyptians mostly came from pre-historic Sahalian populations like the ones in southern Libya and southern Algeria.
Edit: The own Egyptians used to paint themselves in Brown, the Nubians in Black and the Berbers as light skinned.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
When you get mad and hurl profanity after failing to support your arguments it makes us think you are trying to get banned on this board as a way out. Trolls sometimes force the issue that way.
Now....have you come up with any answers to the questions earlier posted?
quote:
Originally posted by Keino:
You are so biased and lost in your view that AE were mulatto, raceless, african but not black people that you can't even make a coherent statement without contridicting your prior statements.Guys arguing with him is futile and null. Its like you guys going to war with nuclear weapons and him throwing rocks. Not only does he have no grounds to stand on,but he can't even be logical enough to comprehend the incongruence of his dismantled and irrational thought process and arguments. Honest its like he's arguing with himself.[/B]
I agree. As this discourse continuous, Orionix ideas just seems to keep on disintegrating. By his own definition, a mulatto is the ofspring of a white man and a black woman.
But then, just a few moments ago, he said there was NO black Egyptians. Now keep mind that earlier, he had to admit that Egyptians were black, with the southern origins of the civilization. So now, he has decided to go back to Upper Egyptians not being black, but being brown mulattos. If Egypt didn't have black people, and if we were to go by his own definition, how then could there be mulattos?
The other senario that can come from his logic, is that there never was a tropical African race in the horn of Africa or Sahara. The first Africans, meaning the first humans, were "spontaneously" mulattos. The mulattos of the Sahara and east Africa would have then moved to the Nile Valley, and viola...we have the majority mulatto race in the Nile Valley. Again, according to Orionix, there never was a black Egyptian race.
The only pure race for Orionix, appears to be the Near Eastern. In this instance, it would appear that Human origin was in Asia. East and North Africans, and Southern Europeans would be the derivative of this race.
See how completely screwed up his argument is?
The guy isn't obviously familiar with the origins of Nile Valley settlers. As a result, there is simply no expression of coherency in his comments.
Oops, he has had a change of mind: now, there is a black Egyptian population after all. Well, how about that!
quote:
Orionix:
The black Upper Egyptians mostly came from pre-historic Sahalian populations like the ones in southern Libya and southern Algeria.
[This message has been edited by supercar (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
[B]No one ever gets angry here but you. And it's odd that you would get angry over European "mulatto civilisations" since that's your (crude) term. I guess that's all a part of the hypocrisy.
You are an Idiot. There is nothing crude about mulatto.
North Africans are indeed intermediate between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans.
quote:
When you get mad and hurl profanity after failing to support your arguments it makes us think you are trying to get banned on this board as a way out. Trolls sometimes force the issue that way.
The only troll here is you.
You really try to convince me that the ancient Egyptians were some dominant race of black Africans from whom the Greeks stole their culture from.
Without mentioning the switching between different screen names to support your argument.
One thing is for sure, you are a sick person.
If it was my board you could make sure that the door would already slam in your face.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
Orionix, one thing you might want to try is anger management therapy. Certainly trolling here doesn't seem to be working. Your condition seems to be worsening in fact.
You sound like Ausar. I think you are him but i'm not sure though.
Believe me i'm the last one to get emotional on an Afrocentric Internet forum.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
You sound like Ausar. I think you are him but i'm not sure though.Believe me i'm the last one to get emotional on an Afrocentric Internet forum.
How many people does Rasol have to transform into, just to deal with you. First it was me, and now Ausar.
I think Rasol is right, you may actually be seeking a way out of the debate.
quote:
You sound like Ausar. I think you are him but i'm not sure though.Believe me i'm the last one to get emotional on an Afrocentric Internet forum.
Three times you have posted my name,and I have said nothing to you. People are free to express whatever opinion or belief they wish on this forum. This forum does not ascribe to any view and what people post here don't necessarily represent my views as moderator of the forum.
Please leave my name out of your posts! Do it again and I will deleate your posts! This is the last time.
At one time you even took quotes from supercar and affixed them to my name. You have plagized,used profanity, and slandered my name. ya ibn Kalb ya khawaga !!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
Orionix, one thing you might want to try is anger management therapy. Certainly trolling here doesn't seem to be working. Your condition seems to be worsening in fact.
Guys I thihk Orionix is only like 15 or so. This argument style is very immature and juvenile. He can't even stay focused on objective facts. He is using immature Ego defense mechanisms: 1)Acting out= unacceptable feelings and thoughts are expressed through actions (ie verbal tantrums). 2)Dissociation= temporary drastic change in personality, thought, memory, or motor behavior to avoid emotional stress. 3)Denial- Avoidance of the awareness of some painful reality. 4)Rationalization= Proclaiming logical reasons for actions actually performed for other reasons.
quote:
Originally posted by supercar:
How many people does Rasol have to transform into, just to deal with you. First it was me, and now Ausar.I think Rasol is right, you may actually be seeking a way out of the debate.
I don't know for sure but some of you write/"sound" very similar. I don't think it's a conincidence.
Anyway, i think the deabte/argument is over. You guys are not really worthy debating with.
quote:
Please leave my name out of your posts! Do it again and I will deleate your posts! This is the last time.
Go head, delete my posts. Who fucking cares.
quote:
At one time you even took quotes from supercar and affixed them to my name. You have plagized,used profanity, and slandered my name. ya ibn Kalb ya khawaga!!!!!!
First of all you better watch out your tone of language.
I don't know you but i can shut your site down and believe me there are people who know how do it and how to get your IP out and everything. Don't make things bad for yourself.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 14 November 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 14 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
First of all you better watch out your tone of language.I don't know you but i can shut your site down and believe me there are people who know how do it and how to get your IP out and everything. Don't make things bad for yourself.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 14 November 2004).]
Is this a threat? You are one sick little boy. Go to bed before your parents ground you! NOW!
quote:
Originally posted by Keino:
Is this a threat? You are one sick little boy. Go to bed before your parents ground you! NOW!
How hold are you... 30-60? You guy/s are very very sick people.
quote:
Originally posted by Keino:
He is using immature Ego defense mechanisms: 1)Acting out= unacceptable feelings and thoughts are expressed through actions (ie verbal tantrums). 2)Dissociation= temporary drastic change in personality, thought, memory, or motor behavior to avoid emotional stress. 3)Denial- Avoidance of the awareness of some painful reality. 4)Rationalization= Proclaiming logical reasons for actions actually performed for other reasons.
Dude i can feel your boredom and lonliness. I think you watched too many movies. Go drink some coffee or something.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
Both Ethiopians and Yemenis contain an almost-equal proportion of Eurasian-specific M and N and African-specific lineages and therefore cluster together in a multidimensional scaling plot between Near Eastern (Yemenis do not cluster with other NE) and sub-Saharan African populations.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).]
Quite simple and plain all that says it that both Ethiopians and Yemenis(at least those tested) share a common ancestry, but yet anyone with a pair of eyes can see both are somatically distinct from one another. Ethiopians, according to autosomal DNA, cluster with sub-Saharan populations. Haplogroups M and N were the first two haplogroups to leave Africa, meaning M and N are in realty African, not Eurasian specific. haplogroups M and N split off from superhaplogroup L3, which also contains sub-Saharan L3 lineages. That study you cited had several errors, inclusing the belief that Amhara migrated from Arabia when they DID NOT.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
I think the Amhara is the dominant ethnc group.Most of the people of the horn of Africa are just brown. Their phenotype is quite distinct from other sub-Saharan Africans.
Oromo are numerically dominant, not Amhara and Somalis are quite jet black and most sub-Saharans are the same color, not the sterotypical blackest black=true sub-Saharan.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol:
[b]Lol. You cited the study. It doesn't prove much of anything, except the relationship between upper Egyptians and Nubians. That you pretend not to see this, and cite the study for what it says about "Zarian Bantu" ROTFL!, shows how pathetically desparate your act is becoming.
There was a relationship between Lower Nubians and Upper Egyptians but again they shared much more in common with Lower Egyptians (probably Lybians) than with southern Sudanese.
So we can sum it up this way...
There are 4 clines:
A: Lower Egypt
B: Upper Egypt
C: Lower Nubia
D: Southern Sudan
A differs from B + C but not as significatly as B + C differ from D.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 13 November 2004).][/B][/QUOTE]
I LIKE how you did that,and you are right,the early lower nubians had things in common with africans south of egypt,not lower egypt,but many lower nubians intermarry over the years,so you have to look at the date of that study,or what time period that study was done for,was it 3000 b.c. because it will show it has more things in common with black africans or 300 a.d. when many lower nubians were mixed but many still would look basically black while other would not but they would still call themsevles black,see folks have a agenda you know.
by the way there were blacks in lower egypt as well but it was quickly something else later,and there were only some left.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 14 November 2004).]
ex: Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt) compared to the north (11.7% in A)
This particularity shows strong affinity (almost identical) between Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia and genetic "distinction" in the Delta. It also infers, but does not supply data, that Africa as far interior as Ethiopia would share affinity with Nubia and Upper Egypt...however, no data for that.
This study is used by people (usually eurocentrically) who don't actually read the data, or simply don't know how to.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 November 2004).]
Thought Writes:
In that you are attempting to use it in a scientific manner it is indeed crude/non-scientific.
{North Africans are indeed intermediate between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans.}
Thought Writes:
North Africans are heterogenous and gene pools from Eurasia within the last 2,000 years have altered the indigenous Holocene genetic pattern.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
It also infers, but does not supply data, that Africa as far interior as Ethiopia would share affinity with Nubia and Upper Egypt...however, no data for that.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 November 2004).]
Thought Writes:
Y Chromosome analysis (PN2 Clade) CLEARLY links African Rift Valley populations from Syria to Kenya. The root of the sub-clade E-M78, which is the only sub-clade found in high frequincies outside of Africa appear in its highest frequincies in Somalia, Kenya and among the Oromo of Ethiopia. This data is consistent with population movement FROM East Africa in conjunction with the early Holocene wet phase to North Africa and the Near East.
quote:
Originally posted by S.Mohammad:
Quite simple and plain all that says it that both Ethiopians and Yemenis(at least those tested) share a common ancestry, but yet anyone with a pair of eyes can see both are somatically distinct from one another. Ethiopians, according to autosomal DNA, cluster with sub-Saharan populations. Haplogroups M and N were the first two haplogroups to leave Africa, meaning M and N are in realty African, not Eurasian specific. haplogroups M and N split off from superhaplogroup L3, which also contains sub-Saharan L3 lineages. That study you cited had several errors, inclusing the belief that Amhara migrated from Arabia when they DID NOT.
What you said is a subjective opinion. Ethiopians and Yemenis share a common ancestry from 3,000 years ago.
The Amhara are Semetic Ethiopians who migrated back from Yemen to Ethiopia some 3000 years ago.
1. "The occurrence of E*5 212 and E*5 204 alleles in two populations of the Mediterranean basin (Turkey and Italy) but not in West Africans can be explained by taking into account that the Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."
(Scacchi et al., Human Biology, 2003)
2. "The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara, descended from Arabian conquerors, and the Oromo, the most important group among the Cushitic people. ... The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara and Oromo located in an intermediate position."
(De Stefano et al., Ann Hum Biol, 2002)
Haplogroups M and N are Asian maternal haplogroups, not African. Only L1, L2 and L3 are African maternal haplogroups.
quote:
Originally posted by kenndo:
Most egyptians became mulatoo after and during the arab period.
Most Egyptians were just brown since at least since 5000 years ago. Lower Egyptians were lighter and Upper Egyptians darker.
This is exactly how they painted themselves. There is really nothing which indicates otherwise.
Genetic studies start to link the people of Upper Egypt to east Africa but it could also be the present-day Sahara, an area SW to the Egypto-Sudanese border.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 14 November 2004).]
quote:...which of course is why the migration of Black Africans into and out of Near East, and especially Yemen does not support "caucasoid" diffusionist mythology.
Thought Writes:Y Chromosome analysis (PN2 Clade) CLEARLY links African Rift Valley populations from Syria to Kenya. The root of the sub-clade E-M78, which is the only sub-clade found in high frequincies outside of Africa appear in its highest frequincies in Somalia, Kenya and among the Oromo of Ethiopia. This data is consistent with population movement FROM East Africa in conjunction with the early Holocene wet phase to North Africa and the Near East.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
[QUOTE]Thought Writes:...which of course is why the migration of Black Africans into and out of Near East, and especially Yemen does not support "caucasoid" diffusionist mythology.
"Caucasoid" is not really scientific, it's social. But in general, Near Easterns are genetically more similar to Europeans than to blacks.
Or are you admitting to having been caught attempting to fabricate data when the actual data completely contradicts you?
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 November 2004).]
quote:
Near Easterns are genetically more similar to Europeans than to blacks.
this statement is false due to mismatched criterion:
* "near eastern" is political-geography,
* black is phenotype,
* neither one is genotype.
* the ancient Blacks of the Kush (now Arabia and Yemen) are both near eastern and Black.
Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt) compared to the north (11.7% in A)
* In this instance, there is affinity between Upper Egypt and Nubia, (and Ethiopia) while the delta region is genetically distinct. Your concept is thus falsified. Have you found the missing "D" cline data yet?
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 November 2004).]
quote:
Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."
A retarded statement, that can only be made by amateurs, who patch up nuggets from different studies that don't address even population variations within one nation. Ethiopian are Africans, and so they can't be distinct from "Africans". This mindless and passive referrence to "Africans" as some homogenous group is well, just junk or crackpot science!
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
Orionix: Where is your specific haplotypic data for mystery cline D?Or are you admitting to having been caught attempting to fabricate data when the actual data [b]completely contradicts you?
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 November 2004).][/B]
Cline D is southern Sudan. Upper Egyptians had nothing to do with southern Sudanese.
Y-haplotype 11 (XI) is not African, it's Asian found in Eurasia in the highest frequencies.
Y-chromosomes, inherited paternally, are made up of African Groups I, II and III and Asian Groups IV-X; European lineages are all variations of these Groups. In the more common Jobling/Tyler-Smith nomenclature, we have prominent European haplogroups 1, 2, 3, 9, 21, 22 and 25; Asian haplogroups 4, 10, 12, 16 and 28; and African haplogroups 6, 7 and 8. African-specific lineages are virtually absent in Europe, while Asian-specific ones are concentrated in the Northeast.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 14 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
[B] Cline D is southern Sudan.
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
Cline D is southern Sudan. Upper Egyptians had nothing to do with southern Sudanese.
That is what you said earlier, and yet you still haven't given the data for Cline D, which supports your earlier statement about A not being as distinct from B&C, as D is. Thus, you haven't answered what was asked of you.
quote:
Orionix:
Y-haplotype 11 (XI) is not African, it's Asian found in Eurasia in the highest frequencies.
This is not what was said in your earlier reference. So let's reiterate:
Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt) compared to the north (11.7% in A)
You are becoming notorious for contradicting yourself with data that you present.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
then where is your data?
We don't have a recent study about southern Sudan but previous studies indicate a genetic distance between Upper Nubia and Lower Nubia.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 14 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
We don't have a recent study about southern Sudan but previous studies indicate a genetic distance between Upper Nubia and Lower Nubia.
"previous studies indicate a genetic distance between Upper Nubia and Lower Nubia.": Crackpot scholarship.
quote:...of course you don't, because there is no cline d and you are now a liar as well as a plagiarist.
We don't have a recent study about southern Sudan
next case....
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
Cline D is southern Sudan. Upper Egyptians had nothing to do with southern Sudanese.Y-haplotype 11 (XI) is not African, it's Asian found in Eurasia in the highest frequencies.
Y-chromosomes, inherited paternally, are made up of African Groups I, II and III and Asian Groups IV-X; European lineages are all variations of these Groups. In the more common Jobling/Tyler-Smith nomenclature, we have prominent European haplogroups 1, 2, 3, 9, 21, 22 and 25; Asian haplogroups 4, 10, 12, 16 and 28; and African haplogroups 6, 7 and 8. African-specific lineages are virtually absent in Europe, while Asian-specific ones are concentrated in the Northeast.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 14 November 2004).]
Sight Writes:
Haplotype V (E-M81) XI (E-M78) and IV (E-M2) constitute the PN2 Clade which is GROUP III. Your confusing terminology specific to this paper with GENERAL terminology. The PN2 clade is of Sub-Saharan origin.
quote:
Originally posted by Thought2:
Sight Writes:Haplotype V (E-M81) XI (E-M78) and IV (E-M2) constitute the PN2 Clade which is GROUP III. Your confusing terminology specific to this paper with GENERAL terminology. The PN2 clade is of Sub-Saharan origin.
Sight Writes:
E-M81 is found in its highest frequency within Berber speaking populations. E-M78 is found in its highest frequency among Somali's, Oromo and Borano of Kenya. A branch of E-M78 spread out to the Near east and Europe during the early Holocene. E-M2 is found in its high frequncis in Senegal, Upper Egypt and Nubia and Central Africa.
quote:
Originally posted by Thought2:
Sight Writes:Haplotype V (E-M81) XI (E-M78) and IV (E-M2) constitute the PN2 Clade which is GROUP III. Your confusing terminology specific to this paper with GENERAL terminology. The PN2 clade is of Sub-Saharan origin.
This is not as simple as you think.
The three main subclades of haplogroup E3b (E-M78, E-M81, and E-M34) and the paragroup E-M35* are not homogeneously distributed on the African continent: E-M78 has been observed in both northern and eastern Africa, E-M81 is restricted to northern Africa (particulary among Berber speaking populations), E-M34 is common only in eastern Africa, and E-M35* is shared by eastern and southern Africans (Cruciani et al. 2002). Given the strong geographic structuring observed for the four subsets of E3b within Africa, it is possible that different E3b lineages also have different frequency profiles in western Eurasia and that the evolutionary events underlying the introduction of E3b chromosomes in this area from Africa were not as simple (Rosser et al. 2000; Richards et al. 2002; Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003) as previously proposed
Here's the whole study
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
This is not as simple as you think.The three main subclades of haplogroup E3b (E-M78, E-M81, and E-M34) and the paragroup E-M35* are not homogeneously distributed on the African continent: E-M78 has been observed in both northern and eastern Africa, E-M81 is restricted to northern Africa (particulary among Berber speaking populations), E-M34 is common only in eastern Africa, and E-M35* is shared by eastern and southern Africans (Cruciani et al. 2002). Given the strong geographic structuring observed for the four subsets of E3b within Africa, it is possible that different E3b lineages also have different frequency profiles in western Eurasia and that the evolutionary events underlying the introduction of E3b chromosomes in this area from Africa were not as simple (Rosser et al. 2000; Richards et al. 2002; Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003) as previously proposed
Here's the whole study
Thought Writes:
This same paper states:
"Early event invloved the dispersal of E-M78 chromosomes from Eastern Africa..."
quote:
Originally posted by Thought2:
Thought Writes:This same paper states:
"Early event invloved the dispersal of E-M78 chromosomes from Eastern Africa..."
The E3b haplotype spread from eastern Africa some 10,000 years ago (8000 BC). It's still found in the high frequencies in present-day Ethiopia.
quote:
Originally posted by rasol:
Kenndo I don't know if you are being facetious or not, but the data in question tells us about the relationship between Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia, clines B and C, although other groups are mentioned in the study there is not cline data. Read the cline data, not just the commentary:ex: Haplotype XI [very important in Ethiopia] also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) (Lower Nubia and Upper Egypt) compared to the north (11.7% in A)
This particularity shows strong affinity (almost identical) between Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia and genetic "distinction" in the Delta. It also infers, but does not supply data, that Africa as far interior as Ethiopia would share affinity with Nubia and Upper Egypt...however, no data for that.
This study is used by people (usually eurocentrically) who don't actually read the data, or simply don't know how to.
[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 14 November 2004).]
lower nubians are connected to other nubians,even if most of lower nubians mixed later,i replied to the wrong post.
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 14 November 2004).]
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 14 November 2004).]
[This message has been edited by kenndo (edited 14 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Orionix:
What you said is a subjective opinion. Ethiopians and Yemenis share a common ancestry from 3,000 years ago.
Not at all, it makes plenty of sense.
quote:
The Amhara are Semetic Ethiopians who migrated back from Yemen to Ethiopia some 3000 years ago.
Wrong , the archaeological and historical data do not support this, there is no record of 'Amhara' in Yemen before they appear in Ethiopia.
quote:1. "The occurrence of E*5 212 and E*5 204 alleles in two populations of the Mediterranean basin (Turkey and Italy) but not in West Africans can be explained by taking into account that the Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."
(Scacchi et al., Human Biology, 2003)[7quote]
Why do you spam racial reality's website copy and pasting his nonsense? That study says Ethiopians are 40% caucasoid, yet are more similar to populations of the Mediterranean Basin, its contradicting itsaelf unless they want to say those same Mediterranean populations are 60% Negroid.
[quote]The two main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara, descended from Arabian conquerors,
Arabians NEVER conquered Ethiopians, so waht Arabian conquerees are they speaking of? Might I mind you the historical reference that study used came from a 1966 encyclopedia article.
quote:
Haplogroups M and N are Asian maternal haplogroups, not African. Only L1, L2 and L3 are African maternal haplogroups.
M and N radiated OUT OF AFRICA, they were the only two maternal haplogroups that left Africa, learn how to properly reference the material. Authors called them Asian because they both comprise all Eurasian variation, but both left Africa, M via a southern route from the Horn of Africa into southern Arabia and N via a northern route through the Levant
quote:
Originally posted by S.Mohammad:
M and N radiated OUT OF AFRICA, they were the only two maternal haplogroups that left Africa, learn how to properly reference the material. Authors called them Asian because they both comprise all Eurasian variation, but both left Africa, M via a southern route from the Horn of Africa into southern Arabia and N via a northern route through the Levant
First of all we cannot argue with geneticists who understand population genetics 20x more.
You are talking about Y-chromosomal haplogroup E which spread out of eastern Africa some 10,000 years ago.
Extant genetic diversity within Africa is particularly complex, not only because of its primary role in the evolution of our species but also because Africa was both a source and a recipient of transcontinental gene flow during different episodes of human history. In addition to the Strait of Gibraltar connecting Iberia and Maghreb (North Africa) (Hitti 1990; Newman 1995; Bosch et al. 2001), two other migration routes between Africa and Eurasia are generally considered, the Levantine corridor and the Horn of Africa (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994; Kivisild et al. 1999; Quintana-Murci et al. 1999; Stringer 2000; Underhill et al. 2001b; Bar-Yosef 2002; Nebel et al. 2002). These two passageways have their immediate termini at opposite ends of the Arabian Peninsula, the geographic nexus of Africa, Europe, and Asia. Although a principal-component analysis of African populations, based on 79 protein polymorphisms (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1993, 1994) and mtDNA haplogroups (Salas et al. 2002), revealed pan-African substructure, only slight differences are suggested between the Nile River Valley in the north and regions near the Bab-el Mandeb channel located between the Horn of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Furthermore, Y chromosome data involving 63 samples from Cairo typed at 10 binary markers failed to detect any genetic barriers between Egypt and the Middle East (Manni et al. 2002). These studies suggest a regional genetic continuity among the Nile River Valley, the Middle East, and the Arabian Peninsula. In contrast, analysis of a larger set of Egyptian samples using the complex 49a,f polymorphic system revealed some geographic substructure in the Nile River Valley (Lucotte and Mercier 2003). However, direct correlation to PCR-compatible binary polymorphisms is often not straightforward, because of the limited resolution and the inherent potential for recurrent mutations in the 49a,f locus.
[This message has been edited by Orionix (edited 15 November 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by S.Mohammad:
Thought, look at this blatant falsification in this study. It says Tigrai, Amharas, and Guarage, and Falasha Jews are migrants and or conquerers from southern Arabia.
http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2004.pdf
Thought Posts:
Keita et al.
2004
"The Ethiopian genetic profile may have valid alternative explanations incorporating bi-directional migrations and settlements of great antiquity, depending on how old linguistics would predict the ancestral Ethio-Semetic language to be, in order to account for the present linguistic variation".
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)