This is topic Gaddafi: Africa's 'king of kings' in forum Deshret at EgyptSearch Forums.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000568

---

Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7588033.stm


A meeting of more than 200 African kings and traditional rulers has bestowed the title "king of kings" on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.


The rulers, wearing gold crowns, sequined capes and colourful robes met in the Libyan town of Benghazi in what was billed as a first of its kind.

Col Gaddafi urged the royals to join his campaign for African unity.

Africa's political leaders are lukewarm about his vision of merging their powers to create a single government.

"We want an African military to defend Africa, we want a single African currency, we want one African passport to travel within Africa," Col Gaddafi told the assembled dignitaries, who come from countries such as Mozambique, South Africa, Ivory Coast and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Mediterranean town of Benghazi says Libya's leader wants them to create a grass-roots movement to press Africa's political leaders to sign up to his vision.

Sheikh Abdilmajid from Tanzania told the BBC that the traditional rulers could play an important role.

"The people believe in the chiefs and kings more than they believe in their governments," he said.


-----------
Same story, different news magazine.

Gaddafi named 'king of kings'
29/08/2008 17:36 - (SA)

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2384883,00.html

Benghazi, Libya - Dignitaries from a host of African tribes have bestowed the title "king of kings" on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi during a visit marking the anniversary of the coup that brought him to power almost four decades ago.

"We have decided to recognise our brother leader as the 'king of kings, sultans, princes, sheikhs and mayors of Africa," said a statement from a forum grouping more than 200 tribal chiefs from Africa late on Thursday.

The tribesmen, many wearing golden crowns, colourful headdresses and robes, also presented Gaddafi with gifts including a "royal chair", an 18th century Qu'ran, ostrich eggs, traditional outfits and local products.

At the meeting in the Mediterranean city of Benghazi east of Tripoli, Gaddafi called his guests to "put pressure on their governments to move towards the unification of Africa and the creation of a United States of Africa."

During their visit, the tribal leaders visited Gaddafi's home in Benghazi which was among a series of targets of US raids in 1986 that killed 40 people including his adopted daughter.

Gaddafi took power after leading a military coup against King Idriss on September 1 1969.
 

---

Posted by EgyptianDoc77 (Member # 3777) on :
 
I came across that story in today's newspaper. Very interesting to read

I recently heard too that leaders of the amazon are on the verge of doing the same thing
 

---

Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
 
^^^Indeed it is quite interesting. I am curious to see what would be the first action that would take place, if the proposed "United States of Africa" becomes a reality.
 

---

Posted by Lord Sauron (Member # 6729) on :
 
Great News for Africa.
 

---

Posted by HistoryFacelift (Member # 14696) on :
 
""The people believe in the chiefs and kings more than they believe in their governments,""

I agree with this. Africa is the land of the ancients, they have so much rich history, they have always shunned the political system that was forced upon them by so many forms of colonialization.
They do not believe in "the system" because it fails them so much, but they are forced to run with it amidst corruption and racial prejudice just to keep up with the rest of the world, which clearly is not working.

Let parts of Africa return to it's roots, these modern turmoils are infiltrating Africa and causing them to reject their own legacies. African Monarchies should be brought back and they should rebuilt their own kingdoms based on their own ways of life.
I actually think having a land build on ancient customs and teachings would bring them more riches than trying to play copycat with the rest of the world if they were to take it that far.

This is an example of Africa rejecting foreign invasion, manipulation and imposition, many will follow. If Amazon is really doing this good for them also. Colonization's time is UP!
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ Amazon?

Anyway ... this sounds like something. But I wouldn't get too excited just yet.
 

---

Posted by EgyptianDoc77 (Member # 3777) on :
 
Thats true besides africans have a heart of gold and transparency. The things is Kaddafis initiatives have become too much, all pen on paper, nothing been implemented so far. With all african regimens in power at the moment, their can never be a minor beam of hope for a conjoint african market or any cooperative legislatives.

Colonization time is UP but colonization effects arent yet, Passiveness, ignorance and lack of commitment rooted by colonization still to operate in the continent, which is colonized at the moment by its disloyal corrupted regimes and no one shall change it but africans themselves ( no offense, iam Egyptian and African)
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
A United States of Africa... cool! But this sounds more like Khadafi's States of Africa.
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ Yes, I share your sentiments verily.

Sounds like some NWO conspiracy ... but then I thought that was the AU.
 

---

Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
 

quote:

---

( no offense, iam Egyptian and African)

---

No offense, but Egypt is African.
 

---

Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
 
Originally posted by Doug M

quote:

---

A United States of Africa... cool! But this sounds more like Khadafi's States of Africa.

---

quote:

---

"The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Mediterranean town of Benghazi says Libya's leader wants them to create a grass-roots movement to press Africa's political leaders to sign up to his vision ."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:

quote:

---

( no offense, iam Egyptian and African)

---

No offense, but Egypt is African.

---

thats what i mentioned bro
 

---

Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
A United States of Africa... cool! But this sounds more like Khadafi's States of Africa.

---

^ cosign. Why so many of Africa's kings feel the need to bow down before Khadafi completely perplexes me.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
It actually shows clearly how AGAINST AFRICAN unity many Africans really are. But at the same token a United States of Africa would include all sorts of African "kings of kings" I would think.
 

---

Posted by sportbilly (Member # 14122) on :
 
This is some depressing, disgraceful, demoralizing sh*t!

Okay, so let me get this straight. A number of African "kings" came together --just out of curiosity, how many of these kings have brough prosperity to their people and not just themselves?-- and these self-appointed "dignataries" have chosen a "king of kings" --whatever the hell THAT is!-- and who do they choose?

Do they choose a non-arab/non-muslim? No! Perhaps somebody who represents what is quentessentially African? Of course not!
Do they even choose a black man? Nope!
Instead they choose some arab, because after all, what could possibly be more African than an arab squatter who owes his allegiance to the Arab League and not the African Union?

This article ought to read "200 of Africa's 'big men' rulers declared to the world that they have sold out."
Anyone who thinks this is a "great thing" or is even remotely good for Africa is a fucking fool! This is the first major step by the arabs toward a total takeover of africa. Islam paved the way, now it's time to use their Islamic flunkies and the corrupt and cowardly pretend "leaders" to finish the job.
The ONLY hope Africa has now is it's people. If they don't revolt to stop this, you will see not a United States of Africa, but a United States of Arabs.

Anyone who doubts that Africa is firmly in the grip of Islam and that most Africans are into arab-worship, this should be their wake-up call.
This is UTTERLY ridiculous! And f*cking disgraceful! And should it gain any traction, it will turn out to be utterly ruinous for Africa with a death toll into the tens of millions once the "unification" process starts. The arabs idea of African Unity is darfur --the arabs unify and kill all the Africas.
This latest plot is about solidifying Gadaffi's power, not Africa's


Dr John Henrik Clarke warned about precisely this. He said, "the arabs would de-populate Africa of Africans and replace them with arabs, Europeans and Asians." Look at this group of fools. What more blatant proof would you want that the arab's goal is to lead africa around by he nose until they gain the means to pull a continental-wide Darfur?
I know there are some self-hating blacks and undercover arabs in this thread and on these boards who are loving the sound of this. Well, it's going to be up to the African people themselves to stop it.
Gadaffi's NEVER lifted a finger to help blacks in Libya, what the hell makes you think he's suddenly become concerned for blacks now? He's put together a rubber-stamp organization whose purpose is to guarantee arab hegemony over ALL of Africa, not just north of the Sahara.
This oughta be clear even to the most dense of observers.

If this bullshit gains any traction then Africa is as good as finished. The arabs will simply use their "king of kings" position to enforce continental arabism and that will be the end of it.
Every African needs to be opposed to this.

The Africans don't need a small version of a one-world government, wihch is all this plot is. One Nation, Under the Arabs.
They don't need and arabs --who, in case some folks here have forgotten are occupiers and colonialists-- to solve their problems either. The best thing the Africans can do is put their own heads together and find the means to be free.
 

---

Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
 
^^^Good post..... Definitely. You can see it from this quote below. Like Doug M, mentioned also, seems more like it's Gadaffi's states of Africa, he wants the kings to sign up to HIS vision. If you look at the background you can see the Arab peninsula mysteriously added.

quote:

---

The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Mediterranean town of Benghazi says Libya's leader wants them to create a grass-roots movement to press Africa's political leaders to sign up to his vision .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:

There is the silly belief that the British Commonwealth and the French Communaute should be maintained. There are even what are called "Commonwealth Games" to maintain this humiliating relationship.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sportbilly:
I never said get RID of Islam. I've always maintained get rid of the ARABS. Is this feasible? Hmmm, let's look at recent history and see.
Look at how the huge increase in violence in South Africa is causing whites to self-deport to Australia, Europe etc.

---

You have to compare populations and demographics here, you are talking about a country - South Africa - which had a minority of powerful whites...

with a large geographical region (North Africa) which is PREDOMINANTLY Arab - the most populated ARAB state is situated in AFRICA - EGYPT.

The country with the second largest population of Arabic speakers is ALGERIA. The third is MOROCCO.

Arabic is a major language in Africa and many people identify themselves as ARAB if they speak it as their mother tongue. Even in Somalia it is widley spoken and understood and it isn't the principle language there.



you see the GREEN in the image? you are basically calling to rid Africa of that entire populace. And Remember there are BLACK Arabs too like in Sudan and Mauritania.

So is this feasible you asked? hmmm indeed.

Before you answer this though - you must know that Arabic is the most spoken language in the African continent
Check some figures:

50 most spoken languages in Africa
2005 estimation (speakers in millions)
Total African population in 2005: 850 millions

1) Arabic: 150
2) Kiswahili: 100
3) Hausa: 70
4) English: 60
5) Amharic: 50
6) French: 50
7) Oromo: 30
8) Yoruba: 30
9) Igbo: 25
10) Zulu: 20
11) Somali: 20
12) Malagasy: 20
13) Shona: 20
14) Fulani: 15
15) Chichewa (Nyanja): 15
16) Kikongo: 15
17) Akan: 12
18) Tshiluba: 12
19) Kinyarwanda: 10
20) Xhosa: 10
21) Portuguese: 10
22) Afrikaans: 10
23) Lingala: 10
24) Tigrinya: 8
25) Makua: 8
26) Gikuyu: 7
27) Kirundi: 7
28) Sesotho (southern): 7
29) Kanuri: 5
30) Tswana: 5
31) Umbundu: 5
32) Northern Sotho (sePedi): 5
33) Luyia: 5
34) Wolof: 5
35) Bemba: 5
36) Luo (Dholuo): 5
37) Maninka: 5
38) Tsonga: 5
39) Sukuma: 5
40) Ewe: 5
41) Luganda: 5
42) Kimbundu: 5
43) Ibibio-Efik: 5
44) Bambara: 5
45) Ometo: 4
46) Senoufo: 4
47) Kalenjin: 4
48) Kamba: 4
49) Tiv: 4
50) Gbaya: 4


Are you suggesting a Holocaust against all Arabs (both arab and afro-arab) from the continent?
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sportbilly:
I never said get RID of Islam. I've always maintained get rid of the ARABS. Is this feasible? Hmmm, let's look at recent history and see.
Look at how the huge increase in violence in South Africa is causing whites to self-deport to Australia, Europe etc.

---

You have to compare populations and demographics here, you are talking about a country - South Africa - which had a minority of powerful whites...

with a large geographical region (North Africa) which is PREDOMINANTLY Arab - the most populated ARAB state is situated in AFRICA - EGYPT.

The country with the second largest population of Arabic speakers is ALGERIA. The third is MOROCCO.

Arabic is a major language in Africa and many people identify themselves as ARAB if they speak it as their mother tongue. Even in Somalia it is widley spoken and understood and it isn't the principle language there.




Are you suggesting a Holocaust against all Arabs (both arab and afro-arab) from the continent?

---

WHAT AN UTTERLY STUPID MAP FOR STUPID PEOPLE.

THE MAP DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, FOR EXAMPLE: THE FACT THAT *ALL* THOSE WHO SPEAK ENGLISH IN NIGERIA ALSO SPEAK ONE OR MORE NATIVE LANGUAGES...

LOOK AT THE SIMPLE MINDED TRICK OF PAINTING A WHOLE COUNTRY (NIGERIA) RED AND HOW IT IMPLIES ENGLIGH IS THE ONLY LANGUAGE SPOKEN IN THAT COUNTRY. AS IF 200 "TRADITIONAL LANGUAGES" ARE NOT BEING SPOKEN IN THAT ONE COUNTRY.

ONLY FOOLS AND HORSES.
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 
And you think that will siginificantly change the fact that Arabic is most spoken?
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 
And the map from wiki which is titled OFFICIAL languages may give you a clue since the official language of Nigeria is English.
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 
here play around with some other maps results more of less the same. Just broadens that languages into families - Arabic being from the Afro-Asiatic families but this will include others like Amharic etc, but then the other languages will be classified under their families too.


 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com:
And the map from wiki which is titled OFFICIAL languages may give you a clue since the official language of Nigeria is English.

---

WHO GIVES A DAMN WHAT YOU OR ANY OTHER MUPPET THINKS IS OFFICIAL. STUFF YOUR CLUE UP YOUR ARSE. MY LANGUAGE WHICH IS YORUBA, IS ONE OF THE 3 OFFICIAL LANGUAGES OF NIGERIA:

WA-ZO-BIA WHICH STANDS FOR "COME" IN YORUBA, HAUSA AND IGBO RESPECTIVELY ARE THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGES OF NIGERIA. YOU MIGHT WANT TO WRITE THAT DOWN SOMEWHERE.

ENGLISH IS THE MAIN "ADMINISTRATIVE" LANGUAGE IN NIGERIA. THOUGH IT IS NOT THE ONLY ONE BEING USED ADMINISTRATIVELY. THAT MEANS IT IS USED IN SCHOOLS, IN GOVERNMENT "PAPERWORK" (THOUGH MOST CIVIL SERVANTS TODAY CAN BARELY SPEAK ENGLISH) AND MOSTLY IN COMPANIES OWNED BY WESTERNERS, AS WELL AS (ABOUT 50% OF) CHURCHES AND IN "FOREIGN" AFFAIRS.

*EVERY OTHER PLACE* IN NIGERIA (CLUBS, HOME, PUBLIC SCHOOLS, ON THE STREETS, BARBER SHOPS, CHURCHES, NIGERIAN-OWNED BUSINESSES, CEREMONIES, OTHER EVENTS E.T.C) THE *OFFICIAL* LANGUAGE IS THE PRE-DOMINANT WAZOBIA LANGUAGE OF THE REGION OR BROKEN-ENGLISH (IN THE 5 BIGGEST CITIES ONLY).

IF YOU WALK NIGERIA FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, RARELY, WILL YOU HEAR ENGLISH BEING SPOKEN. IN FACT, THE CLOSEST LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH *MOST* NIGERIANS CAN SPEAK IS BROKEN-ENGLISH.

STICK THAT IN YOUR PIPE AND SMOKE IT.
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 
Bro, no one is denying that there are no native languages in Nigeria, who said there isn't?

And as I said how does this change the bigger picture here? You are just conveniently sidestepping from my main point, which is Arabic language and Arabs as a people in the African continent. And Arabic having the most speakers.

I am just waiting for sportsbilly to explain to me how his final solution for the Arabs of Africa is going to come to effect. Especially considering out of the Arab speaking world the top 3 speaking populations are in Africa... 5th place going to Sudan...
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 
ENGLISH IS *NOT* THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF NIGERIA.
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 
This is really just a petty issue here. Although as you said so many people cannot speak it, still in name it's "official" (I didn't say most spoken) language is English. I don't care how much you want to argue about who speaks what in what bar, barber shop, church or nigerian business. But in name and for official affairs its English.

Just like saying Somalia is a member of the Arab League - but its primary language is Somali

But don't blame me, blame the ones who colonised Nigeria, the British - not the Arabs or anyone else.
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ Don't be Stupid.
 

---

Posted by naturalborn7 (Member # 15598) on :
 
I have mixed feelings about Qaddafi. I do know from an AA perspective, Qaddafi was the only African leader to launch emotional and financial support for AA's. If i recall in the 90's he offered over a billion dollars to the cause.

http://www.adl.org/presrele/IslME_62/2651_62.asp

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C05EEDE1139F93BA1575BC0A960958260

Politcal or not, it's the only gesture of unity and support i've known from any African leader, Arab or Non-Arab. So i can't really hate on him.
 

---

Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
 
^ I would actually agree. Also even though he probably not "african" phenotypically speaking, he seems to be an "african" culturally. Take that for whatever its worth.

In any case, he seems to really be the only one "with a clue" in regards to africa policy and pan-africanism in general.

A united african "front" so to speak would be great for common market purposes, the flow of goods and services and establishing security and stability throughout the continent.

Just my armchair analysis anyways
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 
BINOS...
.

.

.

BEHAVE YOURSELVES...
 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Mmmkay wrote:

-------------------------
Also even though he probably not "african" phenotypically speaking
-------------------------

What is an african phenotypically?


Let me guess you're another psychologically beatdown black american negro who obeys his white owners.
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 
^^ http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000506
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
The point is this for those who don't get it. A united states of Africa was supposed to benefit all Africans, but ESPECIALLY BLACK AFRICANS first and foremost. It does not seek to destroy or eradicate Arabic speakers or Islam, but the point is that Arabic and Islam ARE destroying Africa. Look at Sudan. Look at Mauritania. Therefore, before ANY United States of Africa can be established, SUCH THINGS as Arabic genocide and Arab slavery against African blacks MUST CEASE. The point of African unity is to benefit ALL Africans not make it easier for SOME AFRICANS to benefit while the rest CONTINUE to suffer.

Like others have said, what are these "so called" leaders doing for their people RIGHT NOW? Why do they need Khaddafi or anyone else to do what they need to do for their own people? Why is that so god damn complex? What you mean to tell me after being on earth for over 200,000 years Africans don't know how to put foot in ass, food on the table or clothes on their backs for themselves so they can live? What the f*ck? I mean these guys wear stars and crescents on their head pieces and togas symbolizing age old wisdom, but somehow NEED somebody else to lead them? They can't smell what's cooking and realize that THEY are the one's being served? I mean what is the point of talking about the glory of ancient kingdoms when you don't even control your OWN turf? No wonder they don't get respect from your OWN women. THAT is the problem there, not Khaddafis egotistical desire to be Africa's "king of kings". Everyone knows Khaddafi is a highly self centered type person and sees himself as a larger than life figure, so his actions should not be shocking. But the United States of Africa is not about the goals of a lone egomaniac but the well being of Africa AS A WHOLE. No such thing can happen as the result of the ambitions of a egomaniac. It can ONLY happen as a result of a focus on the SHARING of ideas and SHARED communication and organization across among ALL African leaders. Anything else is bound to be a disaster of immense proportions.
 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Doug M wrote:

------------------------------------
His usual caterwauling transvestite hysteria
------------------------------------

Anyone notice how its always the beatdown black american negroes who always whine and cry about the y man but are the first ones repeating their deranged propagandic lies even when its obvious that what they say are propagandic lies.

* First its the Chinese were banning blacks at the Olympics.

* Then its Ethiopians look like white people.

* Then its the mixed negroes of Mali, Mauritania, Niger and the rest of the Sahara lording over the true negroes.

Now its...............

* Blacks in Darfur being massacared by Arabs

* Blacks are slaves in Mauritania.


Now I defy anyone to tell me that the items that Doug has posted are not progaganda and are not false as well.


Doug you are one sad caterwauling negro. You are the white boy's fantasy come true. A negro that believes and spouts of any deranged race propaganda that he hears.
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ Any information that is propagated is propaganda, you stupid fool.

Propaganda defined: information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

What point are you trying to make? None. You're just running your diarrhea mouth as usual.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Issues that must be addressed before any sort of United States of Africa can be formed:

quote:

---

Boubacar Messaoud remembered strolling from the flatlands of Mauritania toward the southern town of Rosso, a watermelon poised on his head. Beyond a riverbank, he could see a row of children in a yard. Messaoud, then 7, stopped to find out what was going on, with the pure curiosity of a child.

He found out that the children were being signed up for school. Messaoud, the son of slaves who toiled in the fields of landowners, recalled that he was still unaware of the privations separating him from others.

Among a knot of parents, Messaoud noticed the cousin of his family's owner and asked him to help him enroll, too. "I can't," the man replied. "What will your master say?"

Messaoud put down his watermelon and cried.

The ancient tradition of slavery endures in Mauritania, although it was officially abolished in the 1980s. There are roughly half a million slaves among the country's population of 3.3 million, and at least 80 percent do not have access to a formal education, Messaoud said. Many remain illiterate.

Messaoud was in Washington this month to speak at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars and to lobby legislators on the issue, with assistance from the Open Society Institute, which promotes civil society and democratic institutions, and London-based Anti-Slavery International.

Messaoud, who founded the anti-slavery group SOS Slaves in 1995, has waged many battles on behalf of slaves since that day more than 50 years ago when he faced his first obstacle to breaking the shackles.

The French principal inspecting the clutch of eager students outside the school asked why young Messaoud was sobbing. The principal shamed the slave master's cousin into registering Messaoud, who became the first in his family to go to school. He went on to college and became an architect with the help of scholarships and an uncle who ran a butchering business on the side after his farming chores were finished.

Messaoud, 63, remembered the thrill and promise of possibility on his first day of school. "I relished the change from laboring in the fields, sowing seeds and tearing off acacia branches to build barriers fencing in the land," he said. Until then, rare childhood joys had included flopping around in the water to fish by hand. Unlike Mauritania's capital, Nouakchott, which is ringed by ribbons of desert and sand dunes, Rosso has a river running through it, cornfields and rice paddies.

But Messaoud also remembered being bullied and dismissed by classmates as inferior. "When you go out in mixed society, life is hard," he said.

Slavery has been perpetuated in Mauritania by the persistence of tradition, distorted notions of religious obligation and a reluctance by some law enforcement agents to apply the law, especially in rural areas. Slaves are unaware that they are entitled to equal rights and don't know how to seek justice, so their bondage continues, Messaoud said.

---

quote:

---

The Mauritanian government must take additional measures to ensure a new law criminalizing slavery has an effect, human rights activists say.

"The new law is a very positive first step. It is only a first step though," said Romana Cacchioli, Africa Program Coordinator for the British nongovernmental pressure group, Anti-Slavery International. "We don't eradicate slavery just by introducing a law."

On Aug. 8, Mauritania's National Assembly unanimously adopted a law criminalizing slavery, which continues to exist in Mauritania in both traditional and contemporary forms. The law, passed by the Senate on Aug. 22, makes slavery punishable by 5-10 years in prison. It marks the first time in Mauritanian history that slaveholders have been sanctioned.

However, in the wake of the International Day for the Remembrance of the Slave Trade and its Abolition on Aug. 23, local and international organizations are calling on the government to do more to give the law real meaning for the estimated half million slaves in Mauritania.

"Accompanying measures are necessary so that this law is not forgotten—so that it actually contributes to the emancipation of former slaves," said Mamadou Moctar Sarr, executive secretary of the forum of national human rights organizations in Mauritania.

"It's not too soon to start talking about the next steps that should be taken," said Julia Harrington of the Open Society Justice Initiative, an international program for law reform. "The existing law is not really going to be effective all by itself," she told IRIN from Nouakchott, where she was meeting with N.G.O.'s to discuss how best they could lobby the government.
Other Steps Are Necessary

N.G.O.'s are asking for a monitoring and implementation mechanism that would apply the law, investigate allegations of slavery, mediate the release of slaves, and award compensation.

"The passage of this law is incredibly important and symbolic, but there's still a lack of clarity about what its practical effect is going to be," Harrington said.

...
Longstanding Practice

Slavery has existed for centuries in Mauritania, a Sahelian country that falls geographically and culturally between Arab North Africa and black sub-Saharan Africa. The enslavement of the black Arabic speakers (Haratines) is not limited to the upper class white Moores (Berber-Arabs) but also exists among black Africans, mostly of the Halpulaar and Soninké ethnic groups.

Prevalence of the internationally banned practice is hard to quantify. One estimate by the Open Society Justice Initiative places the number of slaves and former slaves at 20 percent of the population – or about 500,000 people – but the organization says the numbers are impossible to confirm. According to most estimates, the Haratine cast—slaves, former slaves, or the descendants of slaves—make up between 40-50 percent of the Mauritanian population, although the government has not officially released results from the last census.

Forms of slavery in Mauritania range from people who live independently but cannot get married without their master's permission to people who "don't get a single bit of food unless it comes from their master's hands, spend their lives looking after their masters, and get beaten every day," according to the Justice Initiative's Harrington.

---

From: http://www.worldpress.org/Africa/2909.cfm

Moorish slaves Mauretania (Haratine or descendants of the original Mauritanian Zenaga Berbers):

quote:

---

Black Maures

Black Maures distinguish themselves from "black Africans" to emphasize their cultural affinities with white Maures and their cultural distance from sub-Saharan Africa. In most cases, their forebears were incorporated into Maure society as slaves. Maure society continued to accept the institution of slavery even after independence in 1960, but it customarily distinguished among three types of servile status: full slaves, part-slaves, and former slaves now freed, called harratin (sing., hartani). Conditions of servitude varied from benevolent to callous and cruel. White Maures had full rights over their slaves, including the right to sell or relocate them. Slaves sometimes earned or were granted their freedom.

Slavery has been outlawed several times, most recently in 1980. The term for slave, abd, was officially replaced with the term for freedman, hartani, but black Maures continued to be considered a slave class. Their status and role in Maure society have changed little. Many Maures continued to hold slaves and exercise their traditional prerogatives even after official decrees outlawed these practices.

Islamic law requires Muslim slaveholders to free their slaves by the fifth generation. Freedmen, however, usually remained in the camp of their former master and filled the same servile role. Whether as slaves or freedmen, black Maures tended their masters' animals, acted as household servants, worked in the palm groves or millet fields, or gathered the crop of gum arabic.

---

quote:

---

Zenaga and Mauritania
Mauritania deserves some attention this week. On the rare occasions when it makes Western headlines, it's generally for slavery or famine, but this week it's distinguishing itself in a rather nobler fashion: holding its first free presidential elections. This is all the more remarkable because it comes some months after a military coup deposing the dictator who ruled Mauritania for 21 years, Maaouya Ould Taya; is it possible that a coup leader actually wants to step down in favour of an elected government? One can but hope that the appearance corresponds to the reality...

Anyway, in commemmoration of this event, I will talk a little about Zenaga this week. Zenaga is the nearly-extinct Berber language of Mauritania. Until about five hundred years ago it was spoken throughout most of the country; its ancestor would have been the language of the Almoravids. However, after the main Berber tribe, the Lamtuna, was defeated by the Arab Beni Ma`qil, most tribes gradually shifted to Hassaniya Arabic, which itself came to contain numerous Zenaga loanwords. The "marabout" tribes, those specialising in Islamic religious learning, retained Zenaga longest, and to this day it continues to be used, at least by the elderly, in a few areas near the southern Atlantic coast. It is remarkably divergent from other Berber varieties, due partly to a number of sound shifts (x > k, l > dj) and partly to a rather different vocabulary, incorporating words rare elsewhere in Berber along with Wolof and Pulaar loanwords. In addition to influencing Hassaniya Arabic, it has also contributed a number of loanwords to the Azer dialect of Soninke, and several words - notably the words for three of the five prayer times, and some religious holidays - to Wolof. Catherine Taine-Cheikh has been doing some documentation of it.

At least one of the few books on this language is available online: Le Zénaga des tribus sénégalaises, by General Faidherbe - although, chillingly, the author dedicates it to the genocidal mass murderer King Leopold II.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com:
And you think that will siginificantly change the fact that Arabic is most spoken?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
It does not seek to destroy or eradicate Arabic speakers or Islam, but the point is that Arabic and Islam ARE destroying Africa. Look at Sudan. Look at Mauritania. Therefore, before ANY United States of Africa can be established, SUCH THINGS as Arabic genocide and Arab slavery against African blacks MUST CEASE.

---

Firstly how on earth is 'Arabic' destroying Africa? Do you mean because it is a language with the most speakers in the continent?? It is an afro-asiatic language, it has every right to be there just as Amharic does. Please explain how it is destroying Africa.

You bring up the Sudan issue, you say Arab slavery against 'African blacks' - are you remotely aware that the Janjaweed - is comprised of nomadic Arabic-speaking African tribes - that is to say Black Arabs/Afro-Arabs.

Of course as I said before- one is Arab by the language he speaks not the colour of his skin. But these ones in particular are still 'Black' and still 'African'- They are not Middle-Eastern Arabs. Sudanese Arabs are descendants from the ancient Nubians - and became 'arabised' with the intermarriages with arabs and introduction of Islam.

The conflict is not to do with Islam it is more to do with ethnic sectarianism. Black Arabs and the non Arabic speaking Blacks.

Images of janjaweed militia (yes they are black and african)







Yes they are still Arabic speaking , but my point is why distinguish them from 'African Blacks' which is incorrect to do so I believe - as you can clearly see they are black africans.

Having said that I agree, ANY genocide must stop, no matter who is perpetrating it.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Whether they be black "arabs" or actual Arabs, the point is that Arab identity is FOREIGN to Africa and the use of such identity to OPPRESS Africa must stop. Period.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Education and power are two different things. A person in power can have NO eduction and still have power. Meanwhile a person with A LOT of education can have NONE, NO MATTER what they WOULD LIKE to do with it.

Power means the ability to make things happen.

Education is important, but without power it is meaningless.

The only reason education is powerful is because it can embolden those who have been sleep to take power for themselves. But at the end of the day, education by itself does not give you power.


Case in point. There are PLENTY of educated blacks in the U.S. and Europe along with PLENTY of educated blacks in Africa as well. But how many of them have the POWER to create REAL change?

To have power means to know how power operates and be willing to USE that knowledge to make things happen. Just having an education does not guarantee that. In fact, ambition is more important than education, because with ambition you can gain more power than any educated person with NO ambition.
 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Doug <booooo hooooooo hoooooo> M wrote:

-------------------------------
-------------------------------


The beatdown mind fucked by frosty black american negro continues his violin session.

What a loser. LOL : )
 

---

Posted by Hori (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Education and power are two different things. A person in power can have NO eduction and still have power. Meanwhile a person with A LOT of education can have NONE, NO MATTER what they WOULD LIKE to do with it.

Power means the ability to make things happen.

Education is important, but without power it is meaningless.

The only reason education is powerful is because it can embolden those who have been sleep to take power for themselves. But at the end of the day, education by itself does not give you power.


Case in point. There are PLENTY of educated blacks in the U.S. and Europe along with PLENTY of educated blacks in Africa as well. But how many of them have the POWER to create REAL change?

To have power means to know how power operates and be willing to USE that knowledge to make things happen. Just having an education does not guarantee that. In fact, ambition is more important than education, because with ambition you can gain more power than any educated person with NO ambition.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com:
I am still waiting for sportsbilly's reply to my post in response to his quote about getting rid of Arabs from Africa...

In the meantime, Doug - since you are stating that Arab identity is 'foreign' to Africa (Even though Arab presence in Africa dates back to pre-Islamic times) Are you also proposing to get rid of Arabs as sportsbilly so bluntly put it?

Arab immigration from Southwest Asia into East Africa goes back to pre-Islamic times. At the beginning of the 5th century B.C., Sabaen (south Arabian) armies settled in the Ethiopian highlands.1 The resulting intermingling of Sabaen and Ethiopian cultures produced the Axum kingdom, which became a powerful empire. 2 The term Abyssinia itself is taken from the Habashan, a powerful southwestern Arabian family which settled in Ethiopia.3 A 1st century B.C. Greek source Periplus of the Erythraen Sea reports large ships going to the East African coast manned by "Arab captains and agents who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language."4

Wars in Arabia in the 7th and 8th centuries sent a large influx of Arab refugees from Arabia and the Persian Gulf to African coastal cities of Somalia, Kenya, and Tanzania.5 Out of this intermingling of Arabs and black Africans was born the Swahili - a Bantu-based Arabized culture. By the 10th century, Arabs were living as far south as Sofala.6 Immigrants from Yemen and Hadramaut came to East Africa in the 13th and 14th century.7 Ibn Battuta, who visited the Swahili coast in 1331 CE, wrote of Mogadishu, then a Swahili town, that Swahili businessmen each had personal ties with Asian merchants, whom they entertained and accommodated in their own houses.8

Until the 19th century, Arabs tended to integrate into the local culture and had relatively little impact on local African traditions.9 But some new imports from Arab culture became central to East African life. Apparently, East Africans were using Arabic script at least by the 9th century. According to Chinese official records of the Zenjistan ambassadors in 9th century China, (Persian Zenj from Arabic Zanj for the people of the East African coast) the Zenjistan language was "like Arabic".10 Quite likely, when asked by the Chinese to write some words, the East African ambassadors wrote in Arabic script.11

The Swahili language is Bantu with a high proportion of Arab loan words.12 The word "Swahili" itself is derived from the Arabic word for "coast". The Swahilis wrote their language in Arabic script for centuries before switching to the Roman script recently.13

Sultans of Omani descent built Zanzibar City in the 18th and 19th centuries.14 (now part of Tanzania) Between 1880 and 1950, Immigrants from Arabia, from Aden and Hadramaut in particular, flocked to East Africa.15 These newcomers brought with them changes in fashion, architectural styles and vocabulary.16 Hadrahmi merchants began to dominate the Swahili trade with southern Arabia.17 Other Arabs of lower economic classes worked in Zanzibar City and Mombasa as hawkers, coffee sellers and unskilled laborers.18 Many died in the Zanzibar revolution of 1964, and the remaining have returned to Oman.19 Some East Africans of Arab-black descent still maintain family ties in Asia. These are descended from relatively recent immigrants and have contact with relatives in Arab countries. Many Swahili have fairly recent Omani ancestors and have used this link to migrate to well-paid posts in Oman.20

Notes:
1)Runoko Rashidi, "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: An Overview", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p. 32

2)Runoko Rashidi, "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: An Overview", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p. 32

3)Runoko Rashidi, "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: An Overview", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p. 32

4)Basil Davidson, The Lost Cities of Africa, p. 178

5)Basil Davidson, p. 178
6)Basil Davidson, p. 179

7)James De V. Allen, Swahili Origins, p. 193

8)John Middleton, The World of the Swahili, p. 22

9)James De V. Allen, p. 243
10)James De V. Allen, p. 137
11)James De V. Allen, p. 137

12)John Middleton, p. xii
13)John Middleton, p. 2
14)John Middleton, p. 80

15)James De V. Allen, p. 240
16)James De V. Allen, p. 243

17)John Middleton, p. 53
18)John Middleton, p. 223
19)John Middleton, p. 223
20)John Middleton, The World of the Swahili, p. 186

http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/article.aspx?d=Africa&x=ArabBlacks

How do you define foreign? how long does one have to settle and habitualise, reproduce generations and generations, leave ones culture and language as a mark till one is considered a native of the land?

Is 'African' culture/identity foreign to Brazil? it is so evident in brazilian culture - from music to religious beliefs and superstitions - its the country with the largest number of african blacks outside of Africa itself... is African influence and culture/identity foreign to the Carribean - even though they are not 'natives' of those islands??

The article mentions how Swahili has many loan words from Arabic, even the name Swahili is from Arabic. The language was written in Arabic script for centuries. And not only that, as I have stressed before, Arabic today is the most spoken language in Africa. So explain to me how Arab identity is foreign to the continent which is home to the 3 largest arabic speaking populations (Egypt, Algeria and Morocco) ?????

---

What did I say? Why do I have to repeat myself? And yes "arabs" or asiatics have been in Africa since pre Islamic times..... as INVADERS.. So what are you saying?
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 
Actually that is wrong not exclusively invaders - even since pre-islamic times, Arabs relied heavily on trade too with their neighbours. Many more came there to take refuge from the wars in the penensula and settled. Even many of the first 'Muslim' Arabs came to Africa to seek refuge from persecution at the hands of the pagan Makkans.

And what did you say you ask? You said that Arab identity is foreign to Africa - and I have already shown you why that is incorrect-see previous post. Furthermore the language is part of the Afro-Asiatic family. It shares many root words with say, Amharic.

Also, to make an important point - against an earlier quote by you - when you not only said Arabic but also Islam is destroying Africa.

What then do you have to say in regards to the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion amongst African Americans? (This does NOT include N.O.I as most AA Muslims follow mainstream SUNNI Islam.)Why is it growing so much there? What makes it so appealing? I think one factor, is that it is clear cut within Islamic teachings that no race is superior to another, Islam gives the African American equality and brotherhood with fellow man.

And what better example can I bring up other than that of Malik Shabazz (Malcolm X) one of the most influential African American's in history. Who said:

"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white, but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all together, irrespective of their color."

"I think you'll find, brother, that there are Muslims everywhere. Wherever you find militancy today among so-called Negroes, watch real closely. You're liable to be looking at a Muslim."


So if Islam is destroying the motherland - why is it then that there are so many African American Muslims ? - I think it is related to bring up AA's in a discussion about Africa - as their perspectives are usually brought up in many Africa- related threads.

Muslim American Ethnicity


source:CAIR

In what way is Islam 'destroying' Africa?
 

---

Posted by SEEKING (Member # 10105) on :
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7589557.stm
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com:
Actually that is wrong not exclusively invaders - even since pre-islamic times, Arabs relied heavily on trade too with their neighbours. Many more came there to take refuge from the wars in the penensula and settled. Even many of the first 'Muslim' Arabs came to Africa to seek refuge from persecution at the hands of the pagan Makkans.

And what did you say you ask? You said that Arab identity is foreign to Africa - and I have already shown you why that is incorrect-see previous post. Furthermore the language is part of the Afro-Asiatic family. It shares many root words with say, Amharic.

Also, to make an important point - against an earlier quote by you - when you not only said Arabic but also Islam is destroying Africa.

What then do you have to say in regards to the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion amongst African Americans? (This does NOT include N.O.I as most AA Muslims follow mainstream SUNNI Islam.)Why is it growing so much there? What makes it so appealing? I think one factor, is that it is clear cut within Islamic teachings that no race is superior to another, Islam gives the African American equality and brotherhood with fellow man.

And what better example can I bring up other than that of Malik Shabazz (Malcolm X) one of the most influential African American's in history. Who said:

"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white, but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all together, irrespective of their color."

"I think you'll find, brother, that there are Muslims everywhere. Wherever you find militancy today among so-called Negroes, watch real closely. You're liable to be looking at a Muslim."


So if Islam is destroying the motherland - why is it then that there are so many African American Muslims ? - I think it is related to bring up AA's in a discussion about Africa - as their perspectives are usually brought up in many Africa- related threads.

Muslim American Ethnicity


source:CAIR

In what way is Islam 'destroying' Africa?

---

quote:

---

Simple point. Show me how Arabs originate in Africa. They do not. No amount of fairy tale spinning will change this. Do some research and read your history books about the Arab invasions and conquests of Africa. Read about the Asiatic invasions of Egypt. Read about the Arab subjugation of Mauritania. Read about the Arab domination of Algeria and Morocco. Read about the Berber resistence to Arab domination. Read about the ancient Egyptian resistence to Asiatic incursions. "Arabs" did not come to Africa simply as travellers. They came as warriors and conquerors.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:


Combine Arabism with Francophonie, Anglophonie, Lusitaphonie, Diaspora African, Continental African, "White" African[which many Africans now accept], black African, Sub-Saharan African, etc. and here you have a whole people with divided souls and lots of personality complexes and problems.

---

Spot on analysis.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Oh, we surely does love him; he be treat us like we somebody; and he almost white too. We is truly blessed!



 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
What I also find interesting is that Arabs supposedly control "much" of Africa yet the only ones are 5 or 6 North African countries and most of the people in those countries don't even consider themselves "Arabs". I've been to Algerian, Libyan, and Egyptian forums and that's what they write.

Still, let us humor all of the po po beatdown sad wretched outcast negroes on this site such as rasol and Doug.

If its only 5 or 6 North African countries that Arabs "control", why the **** are you on this site caterwauling and screaming like women 24/7? You losers don't even consider the people of those countries Africans.

Its not like they control the other 95% of Africa like Uganda, Somalia, Botswana, Ethiopia, Zimbababwe, Cameroon, etc.
 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
rasol is angry because he doesn't have any clothes to wear when goes to one of Oprah's schools.

hahahahahahahahhahaha

Maybe we should have a fundraiser to get him some. hahahaheeeeeee


He's also unexplicably jealous of the "Lord of the Rings trilogy".

This is based on how much he hates "Moooooordoor". LOL
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:
Interesting phenomenon:

Depaite the fact that there has historically a phenomenon called "Arab expansionism"--whereby the culture, religion and population settlements from the Arabian peninsula have extended into other areas--the results are to be pondered.

Arabs constitute less than 1% of the population of Asia and less than 1% of the population of Europe(including Russia).

In terms of religious affiliation the Islamic faith is adhered to by approximately 3% of Europeans and some 16% of Asia. As an exmaple of the impact of cultural Arabism in Asia consider the ongoing hostilities and animosities between Muslims and Hindus in India and its hinterlands of Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The Americas, Australasia and other areas of European settlement are in the same category as Europe proper.


In Africa self-defined "Arabs" are some 16% of Africa's population while the Islamic faith is adhered to by some 45% of the population.

Thus it seems that Africa seems to have been more accomodating of Arab expansionism in terms of cultural transformation and religion than other areas.

Combine Arabism with Francophonie, Anglophonie, Lusitaphonie, Diaspora African, Continental African, "White" African[which many Africans now accept], black African, Sub-Saharan African, etc. and here you have a whole people with divided souls and lots of personality complexes and problems.

---

Interesting points - and Arabs only make 20% of the global Muslim population - the 3 largest muslim populations are not even Arab - Indonesia, India and Pakistan.

Muslim distribution by country:



*Blue represents Shia Islam.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
EgyptianLiving*Com – quote: Interesting points - and Arabs only make 20% of the global Muslim population - the 3 largest muslim populations are not even Arab - Indonesia, India and Pakistan.


Sorry EgyptianLiving*Com – But your numbers don’t add up. There is estimated to be 1.4 billion Muslims in the world; 20% of that would be 280 million. Saudi Arabia’s current population is estimated to be 20-25 million (that is with all the immigration that occurred since White Europeans first invaded in Alexander’s time). Even if Arabia had de-populated itself for purposes of expansion in Muhammad’s time, you still couldn’t get 280 million Arabs out of it.


Perhaps this will explain:


BMC Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 32. Published online 2007 March 1. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-32. PMCID: PMC1810519
Copyright © 2007 Abu-Amero et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.
Eurasian and African mitochondrial DNA influences in the Saudi Arabian population
Khaled K Abu-Amero, 1 Ana M González,2 Jose M Larruga,2 Thomas M Bosley,3 and Vicente M Cabrera2
1Mitochondrial Research Laboratory, Department of Genetics, King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Center, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
2Department of Genetics, Faculty of Biology, University of La Laguna, Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spain
3Neurology Division, Cooper University Hospital, Camden, NJ, USA
Corresponding author.
Khaled K Abu-Amero: kamero@kfshrc.edu.sa; Ana M González: Gonzalez@ull.es; Jose M Larruga: Larruga@ull.es; Thomas M Bosley: tmbosley@cooper.com; Vicente M Cabrera: vcabrera@ull.es
Received September 25, 2006; Accepted March 1, 2007.


The rapid mutation rate of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y-chromosome microsatellites permits estimates of lineage expansion age and of the most probable geographic origin of these expansions. Only two studies regarding the Arabian Peninsula have been based on mtDNA. Lineage classification of a small sample of 29 Bedouins revealed that 25 (86%) had a Eurasian origin, two (7%) belonged to the sub-Saharan Africa L0 and L2 haplogroups, and two were left undetermined. A study of 115 Yemeni mtDNAs showed that Eurasian-specific and African-specific lineages existed in almost equal proportion in that southern Arabian Peninsula sample.


Eurasian origin = Means that they are actually Turks (like ALL White people, Turks are originally from the Eurasian Plains). So what you have done, is what many do, i.e. confuse Turks with Arabs.
 

---

Posted by Hri (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
Oh, we surely does love him; he be treat us like we somebody; and he almost white too. We is truly blessed!

---

Spot on analysis - though I hate to admit - those men probably think along those lines.

But not in a "physiological" way if you know what I mean . It's all about the politics and money.
 

---

Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
 
It doesn't matter WHO succeeds in uniting Africa. Only that it does effectively evolve into a unified entity which can be effective in forming a unified agenda.
 

---

Posted by Hri (Member # 11484) on :
 
^ You're right.

I wonder why you don't hold the same view for what Obama is doing.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by meninarmer:
It doesn't matter WHO succeeds in uniting Africa. Only that it does effectively evolve into a unified entity which can be effective in forming a unified agenda.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike111:
EgyptianLiving*Com – quote: Interesting points - and Arabs only make 20% of the global Muslim population - the 3 largest muslim populations are not even Arab - Indonesia, India and Pakistan.


Sorry EgyptianLiving*Com – But your numbers don’t add up. There is estimated to be 1.4 billion Muslims in the world; 20% of that would be 280 million. Saudi Arabia’s current population is estimated to be 20-25 million (that is with all the immigration that occurred since White Europeans first invaded in Alexander’s time). Even if Arabia had de-populated itself for purposes of expansion in Muhammad’s time, you still couldn’t get 280 million Arabs out of it.


Perhaps this will explain:


BMC Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 32. Published online 2007 March 1. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-32. PMCID: PMC1810519
Copyright © 2007 Abu-Amero et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.
Eurasian and African mitochondrial DNA influences in the Saudi Arabian population
Khaled K Abu-Amero, 1 Ana M González,2 Jose M Larruga,2 Thomas M Bosley,3 and Vicente M Cabrera2
1Mitochondrial Research Laboratory, Department of Genetics, King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Center, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
2Department of Genetics, Faculty of Biology, University of La Laguna, Tenerife, Canary Islands, Spain
3Neurology Division, Cooper University Hospital, Camden, NJ, USA
Corresponding author.
Khaled K Abu-Amero: kamero@kfshrc.edu.sa; Ana M González: Gonzalez@ull.es; Jose M Larruga: Larruga@ull.es; Thomas M Bosley: tmbosley@cooper.com; Vicente M Cabrera: vcabrera@ull.es
Received September 25, 2006; Accepted March 1, 2007.


The rapid mutation rate of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y-chromosome microsatellites permits estimates of lineage expansion age and of the most probable geographic origin of these expansions. Only two studies regarding the Arabian Peninsula have been based on mtDNA. Lineage classification of a small sample of 29 Bedouins revealed that 25 (86%) had a Eurasian origin, two (7%) belonged to the sub-Saharan Africa L0 and L2 haplogroups, and two were left undetermined. A study of 115 Yemeni mtDNAs showed that Eurasian-specific and African-specific lineages existed in almost equal proportion in that southern Arabian Peninsula sample.


Eurasian origin = Means that they are actually Turks (like ALL White people, Turks are originally from the Eurasian Plains). So what you have done, is what many do, i.e. confuse Turks with Arabs.

---

quote:

---

Combine ... with Francophonie, Anglophonie, Lusitaphonie, Diaspora African, Continental African, "White" African[which many Africans now accept], black African, Sub-Saharan African, etc. and here you have a whole people with divided souls and lots of personality complexes and problems.

---

quote:

---

African against African violence has to stop in order for a United States of Africa to succeed...When Nkrumah suggested this concept, he was speaking of truly progressive governments joining together to liberate Africa from foreign control and oppression. He was not joining these governments together to make it easier for sell out leaders to give away more of Africa's wealth.

---

Nkrumah got this from Garvey, whom he said influenced him more than any other leader. Nkrumah also had an Arab wife.

I don't think you know much about Pan Africanist history outside of emotional rants and rhetoric.
 

---

Posted by JMT (Member # 12050) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sportbilly:
Akoben--
I generally like your posts on ancient Egypt and find your messages enlightening. However, since you decided to be condescending I only feel it right to return the favor.

Now, I know they don't have common sense in your neck of the woods, but I say this in the hope they at least have ears. Here's more of my wasted effort.

There's this little thing called "foresight." It means taking the information at hand and extrapolating what future events will be. Where the behavior of the arabs is concerned this is easy. They've been doing the same barbaric thing for the last 3,000 years.
What part of this are you not understanding?
Nobody said the arabs have Africa RIGHT NOW, but given their behavior for say the last 1,500 YEARS what makes you think they've stopped wanting to own Africa in the future? What's this got to do with Papa Gadaffi? He is an arab (perhaps somebody told you he's black, maybe that he's even Smokey Robinson, but trust me, he's an arab) he always has been an arab and always will be. Arabs don't like Africans. Go to Mecca or any arab country if you doubt this.
He's done NOTHING --that means ZERO!-- on behalf of blacks. So, who can extrapolate that with such a dismal track record he's suddenly found religion, deicided to wash his hands of his arab familty members an focus on an Africa First policy?
This will begin with talk of Africa First and end with Gadaffi first.
I hope your empty rhetoric about this being a group of old leaders and BBC propaganda is true. Problem is I've seen this stunt before. Japan called it the Co-Prosperity Sphere. In truth it's the thin end of the wedge.

Now onto your "points." I never said get RID of Islam. As Dr Ben Jochanan wisely obserived, Islam is an idea. You can't fight an idea. Nor do I want to. It's not Islam that I oppose, but rather the fact it's become a thinly-velied form of "arabism."
I've always maintained get rid of the ARABS --I'm an atheist, so I'm no fan of ANY religion, but I couldn't care less about Islam.
Is a purge like this feasible? Hmmm, let's look at recent history and see.
Look at how the huge increase in violence in South Africa is causing whites to self-deport to Australia, Europe etc. I see white colonialism being resisted by the MASSES and this fact is driving the agenda's of the self-interested puppets in these capitals. White power in Africa is slowly but surely being purged. Please try to keep up on current events dear, I so hate repeating myself. Since the whites are on the way out I have to ask what is being done about the arabs? Appeasement, that's what.
Now, am I calling for open war? You'd pee your clean little panties if I answered that directly so let me give a less intimidating answer. I call for a "vigorous action in Africa's self-interest toward reestablishing a pre-colonial status quo." Yes, that will of a neccessity mean less whites and GASP! less arabs. But since the urbs alreayd have their barren wasteland of arabia I have NO problem with depopulating the continent of them. Hope your shorts are still unsoiled after that.

Will this happen? It depends; on whether the blacks understand what they're up against and decide to fight for what's theirs. They have no problem fighting each other to extinction in the Rwanda, the Congo or elsewhere. It's no stretch at all for four or five true national leaders to gather the people to fight the arabs. The only problem is marshalling the resolve.

History is repeating itself. And with the same cast of characters no less.
Dr Clarke pointed out that in antiquity the Africans turned to the arabs precisely to get the white powers (Rome/Greece) off their backs. We know how that turned out.
Sorry if we can't all hide our heads in the sand but some of us prefer seeing things as they truly are.

Perhaps you think of Africa as a place where there's room for everyone of every race, creed, color and religion. Watch a lot of TV, I see.
Well I don't! I only see room for the Africans, and even then only for those who know and accept what is in Africa's best interests.
You say, it's "radicalism." No it's common sense. Perhaps you've heard of it.

If anyone needs to "grow up" it's you. You're not a "child," (I assume) yet you're talking like a baby. Curling into a ball and saying "what will be will be" is not maturity, it's a suicide pact. Take the pacifier out of your mouth and stop the Pollyanna view you have. Africa has no friends. I know they didn't teach you that on the playground but in the real world of adults that's the sad reality.
Do you believe Gadaffi intends to see the Africans able to resist Islam should the winds of religious perogative change? Perhaps he'll favor the Africans pushing back arab expansion? Or do you fantasize that Papa Gadaffi will support enforcing a just peace in Darfur, Ethiopia and the Congo? You're a liar and a damned fool if you say you do believe that. The arabs goals are the exact OPPOSITE of the Africans.
Who's side do you think Col Momor stands on? When you answer that question you'll understand which of us is on the right side of the issue and which one is living in a dream world.
Gadaffi is no more an "echo" of Garvey than Bush's "Ownership Society" is an echo of Malcolm's "Black Proprietor" vision.
If you can't see that then you're more blind than that gallery of stooges Gadaffi had pimping him to the black world.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Education and power are two different things. A person in power can have NO eduction and still have power. Meanwhile a person with A LOT of education can have NONE, NO MATTER what they WOULD LIKE to do with it.

Power means the ability to make things happen.

Education is important, but without power it is meaningless.

The only reason education is powerful is because it can embolden those who have been sleep to take power for themselves. But at the end of the day, education by itself does not give you power.


Case in point. There are PLENTY of educated blacks in the U.S. and Europe along with PLENTY of educated blacks in Africa as well. But how many of them have the POWER to create REAL change?

To have power means to know how power operates and be willing to USE that knowledge to make things happen. Just having an education does not guarantee that. In fact, ambition is more important than education, because with ambition you can gain more power than any educated person with NO ambition.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KemsonReloaded:
Gaddafi's views are filled with holes, tricks and bad ol' Arabic/Islamic agendas. Many Black Africans have already been on top of this desperate, power-hungry Arab for a while now. He's a self-styled Arab who was instrumental in getting Mauritania to withdraw from Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS), now he wants to preach one Africa? Controlled by whom? Arabs? Do these people wake up in the morning really believing they've realized a zenith level intelligence? An entity which specializes in dis-unifying is not in position to tell the whole Africa anything about unification.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by akoben:
The asinine nature of sportbilly comment about Khadafi "just got through taking over africa" can only be appreciated when we consider the fact that it is western/Christian/white Jewish domination that has been the norm since at least early 1800s. And today: who finances the AU? Arabs? Who controls DRC's vast mineral wealth? Arabs? Who controls southern Africa's arable land and diamond fields, Arabs? Who has the international clout (IMF Wolrd bank)and power to enact sanctions against a black African country and destroy a genuine movement towards economic independence? Arabs? You fools need a reality check.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by akoben:
^ Arabic/Islamic agendas eh? LOL It may very well be the case that he still has sentiment for Arabism, duh, he's an Arab.

But please name one African leader, apart from Mugabe, that has an Africa first agenda, i.e. one that puts African interests over Washington, London and Paris.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:
What is obvious though is that none of the other African heads of state are saying or proposing anything. Maybe it's because they have no conception of African history. Hence Khadafi gets centre stage by default.

Item: Khadafi just squeezed $5 billion from Italy for colonial transgressions. The return on that is that he help stop Africans from migrating to Italy--and Europe--through Libya.

---

Excellent point. I mean I hold no brief for the man but you have to give him credit for being a genuine anti-colonial, unlike the paper anti-imperialist Mbeki and his African renaissance. The "Arabism" bogeyman re Ghaddfi is nothing more than a smoke screen for keeping the status quo in Africa. What whites and their negro surrogates in Africa fear the most is not some mass conversion to Islam but African leaders following the Libyan example as far as standing up like MEN to the west, like Mugabe finally did. Indeed it's a sad state of affairs when Libya (unlike Garvey's Liberia or Nkrumah's Ghana) becomes the anti-colonial model.
 

---

Posted by EgyptianLiving*Com (Member # 15738) on :
 
Libya has a history of anti-colonialism- Omar Mukhtar was the leader of the resistance movement which fought against Italian occupation for more than 20 years. He was later captured and executed.






There is an excellent film about his life and struggle called The 'Lion of the Desert' starring Anthony Quinn.
 

---

Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
 
Read your links, but as far as sources go, what they say isn't suprising.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KemsonReloaded:
1) http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2261032,00.html

---

Not sure about a source as blindly, as blatently, and as obsequiously 'pro-Western-agenda' (in terms of exploitation) as that (above) one, but I'd agree that we'd need to watch this guy who is so self-oriented with African unity as would we need to eye any other African leader - they all have their problems.

The goal is African Unity, and as was said, it doesn't matter who brings it, just how it's done.

Now I vote lamin , or at least I vote in lamin as an advisor - but seriously, I'd fight for a leader as bright as lamin long as I new what they were really about.
 

---

Posted by KemsonReloaded (Member # 14127) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:
What is obvious though is that none of the other African heads of state are saying or proposing anything. Maybe it's because they have no conception of African history. Hence Khadafi gets centre stage by default.

Item: Khadafi just squeezed $5 billion from Italy for colonial transgressions. The return on that is that he help stop Africans from migrating to Italy--and Europe--through Libya.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by EgyptianLiving*Com:
I am still waiting for sportsbilly's reply to my post in response to his quote about getting rid of Arabs from Africa...

In the meantime, Doug - since you are stating that Arab identity is 'foreign' to Africa (Even though Arab presence in Africa dates back to pre-Islamic times) Are you also proposing to get rid of Arabs as sportsbilly so bluntly put it?

Arab immigration from Southwest Asia into East Africa goes back to pre-Islamic times. At the beginning of the 5th century B.C., Sabaen (south Arabian) armies settled in the Ethiopian highlands.1 The resulting intermingling of Sabaen and Ethiopian cultures produced the Axum kingdom, which became a powerful empire. 2 The term Abyssinia itself is taken from the Habashan, a powerful southwestern Arabian family which settled in Ethiopia.3 A 1st century B.C. Greek source Periplus of the Erythraen Sea reports large ships going to the East African coast manned by "Arab captains and agents who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language."4

Wars in Arabia in the 7th and 8th centuries sent a large influx of Arab refugees from Arabia and the Persian Gulf to African coastal cities of Somalia, Kenya, and Tanzania.5 Out of this intermingling of Arabs and black Africans was born the Swahili - a Bantu-based Arabized culture. By the 10th century, Arabs were living as far south as Sofala.6 Immigrants from Yemen and Hadramaut came to East Africa in the 13th and 14th century.7 Ibn Battuta, who visited the Swahili coast in 1331 CE, wrote of Mogadishu, then a Swahili town, that Swahili businessmen each had personal ties with Asian merchants, whom they entertained and accommodated in their own houses.8

Until the 19th century, Arabs tended to integrate into the local culture and had relatively little impact on local African traditions.9 But some new imports from Arab culture became central to East African life. Apparently, East Africans were using Arabic script at least by the 9th century. According to Chinese official records of the Zenjistan ambassadors in 9th century China, (Persian Zenj from Arabic Zanj for the people of the East African coast) the Zenjistan language was "like Arabic".10 Quite likely, when asked by the Chinese to write some words, the East African ambassadors wrote in Arabic script.11

The Swahili language is Bantu with a high proportion of Arab loan words.12 The word "Swahili" itself is derived from the Arabic word for "coast". The Swahilis wrote their language in Arabic script for centuries before switching to the Roman script recently.13

Sultans of Omani descent built Zanzibar City in the 18th and 19th centuries.14 (now part of Tanzania) Between 1880 and 1950, Immigrants from Arabia, from Aden and Hadramaut in particular, flocked to East Africa.15 These newcomers brought with them changes in fashion, architectural styles and vocabulary.16 Hadrahmi merchants began to dominate the Swahili trade with southern Arabia.17 Other Arabs of lower economic classes worked in Zanzibar City and Mombasa as hawkers, coffee sellers and unskilled laborers.18 Many died in the Zanzibar revolution of 1964, and the remaining have returned to Oman.19 Some East Africans of Arab-black descent still maintain family ties in Asia. These are descended from relatively recent immigrants and have contact with relatives in Arab countries. Many Swahili have fairly recent Omani ancestors and have used this link to migrate to well-paid posts in Oman.20

Notes:
1)Runoko Rashidi, "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: An Overview", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p. 32

2)Runoko Rashidi, "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: An Overview", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p. 32

3)Runoko Rashidi, "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: An Overview", African Presence in Early Asia, ed. Runoko Rashidi, p. 32

4)Basil Davidson, The Lost Cities of Africa, p. 178

5)Basil Davidson, p. 178
6)Basil Davidson, p. 179

7)James De V. Allen, Swahili Origins, p. 193

8)John Middleton, The World of the Swahili, p. 22

9)James De V. Allen, p. 243
10)James De V. Allen, p. 137
11)James De V. Allen, p. 137

12)John Middleton, p. xii
13)John Middleton, p. 2
14)John Middleton, p. 80

15)James De V. Allen, p. 240
16)James De V. Allen, p. 243

17)John Middleton, p. 53
18)John Middleton, p. 223
19)John Middleton, p. 223
20)John Middleton, The World of the Swahili, p. 186

http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/article.aspx?d=Africa&x=ArabBlacks

How do you define foreign? how long does one have to settle and habitualise, reproduce generations and generations, leave ones culture and language as a mark till one is considered a native of the land?

Is 'African' culture/identity foreign to Brazil? it is so evident in brazilian culture - from music to religious beliefs and superstitions - its the country with the largest number of african blacks outside of Africa itself... is African influence and culture/identity foreign to the Carribean - even though they are not 'natives' of those islands??

The article mentions how Swahili has many loan words from Arabic, even the name Swahili is from Arabic. The language was written in Arabic script for centuries. And not only that, as I have stressed before, Arabic today is the most spoken language in Africa. So explain to me how Arab identity is foreign to the continent which is home to the 3 largest arabic speaking populations (Egypt, Algeria and Morocco) ?????

---

Propaganda.

Arabs believe they have the natural right to own and control any and everything they desire in Africa. The proof is in their actions. Africa did not get in the current state it's in without the constant meddling of arabs and other foreigners. You must believe everything works in a vacuum - the world is utopia? Your perception of reality is flawed. Your premise is counterproductive to any possible black advancement.

Apparently when blacks and arabs are in close proximity on the African continent, often there is conflict and tyranny. Whenever there's conflict and tyranny there is oppression. And when there's oppression Africans are relegated to the lowest social hierarchy at the hands of Arabs in the black man's house. This must be rectified. Arabs will not have it any other way. If the scenario were reversed to some western Asian country such as Saudi Arabia, arabs would unconditionally organize and repel any form of black dominance. Arabs would never tolerate second class citizenship to black people under any circumstance. You know this is true. However double standards apply for blacks in Africa. It's amazing to me how whites and arabs can rule Europe and Asia with impunity - the international community will not second guess their actions. But blacks in Africa are forbidden to rule with impunity and often scrutinized. "Africa is for all people" .... whites and arabs can squat on African land and it's fair game. But Europe and Asia is reserved only for the perspective contemporaries. This is the type of jargon that motivates me to write such essays.

Interesting enough, arabs are not interested in social and economic equality with Africans - especially when Arabs are running things. That's the nature of the beast, correct? Leveling the playing field and social equality is low priority when the ruling class (arabs/whites) sits comfortably in the drivers seat. Shift the driver (arab/white) to the passenger seat and suddenly equality and any other social construct becomes top priority. It's not until then do blacks have to "get along" and play fair with their neighbor. Also, I have often read of the high level of racism and abuse against African people in such places as Saudi Arabia and Egypt. What is your explanation for this?

There is no compromising. You can't compromise with people who negate justice and social equality. Africans and arabs have not lived in peace and probably never will. This is the harsh reality. So what's the solution to this problem? You can't live in peace and compromise with arabs unless they ascertain total control of all economic, political, and social affairs of black Africans. So I ask you once again, if we were talking about a ruling class of black Africans subjugating a majority of Arabs in Saudi Arabia, would your tune be different?
 

---

Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Ghaddafi's about as much Arab as Hassan Ahmad al-Bashir.
Find younger pics of him and check out his facial bone
structure.

Whatever Arab tribe/clan he traces himself to, he's just
physically a Libyan type of "Berber."
 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
Look at all of these sorry ass black american negroes slobbering, moaning, bitching, and crying like women about them araaaabs man, them araabs.


Sorry suckers can't even help your own dumb ass selves out in your own country, yet you sit around acting as if you are some kind authorities on Africa which all of you losers know nothing about.


The whites in your own country use you as their own personal means of coon style entertainment (ie. rap music, dumb down movies and 30 minute comedy shows, and reality tee vee). Which if you dumb asses haven't figured out by now, is meant to entertain their fantasies of black american negroes having no culture or history, other than sex, criminality, and slavery.


This is the reason why you saps need to believe in the propaganda about Africa. You need to ease your pain since you are the dregs and pond scum of your own country.
 

---

Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
 
alTakruri wrote:

----------------------------
Ghaddafi's about as much Arab as Hassan Ahmad al-Bashir.
Find younger pics of him and check out his facial bone
structure.

Whatever Arab tribe/clan he traces himself to, he's just
physically a Libyan type of "Berber."
----------------------------


You're talking to black american negroes. Most are intellectually helpless and mentally weak with low self-esteem and a supersized inferiority complex to every other group of humans on the planet.


They think that if an African doesn't look how their white owners say Africans are supposed to look, then they are Arab, Chinese, Turk, Japanese, or whatever.

They are among the most pathetic group of people that have ever infested this forum.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
argyle104 - Quote: Sorry suckers can't even help your own dumb ass selves out in your own country, yet you sit around acting as if you are some kind authorities on Africa which all of you losers know nothing about.

The whites in your own country use you as their own personal means of coon style entertainment (ie. rap music, dumb down movies and 30 minute comedy shows, and reality tee vee). Which if you dumb asses haven't figured out by now, is meant to entertain their fantasies of black american negroes having no culture or history, other than sex, criminality, and slavery.

This is the reason why you saps need to believe in the propaganda about Africa. You need to ease your pain since you are the dregs and pond scum of your own country.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


argyle104 - I always figured you for a DAN, I had no idea that you were capable of such profound thought.

alTakruri - In looking at his pictures; I see no evidence that he is anything other than expected: An ethnic Turk with trace amounts of African.









 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
alTakruri - When I said ethnic Turk; that was perhaps an oversimplification. That fact is that it would have been more accurate to say: Caucasian, with trace amounts of African.


In ancient times, before the Arab invasian, the Phoenicians and Carthaginians, the armies of Alexander the Great and his Ptolemaic successors from Egypt, then Romans, Vandals, and local representatives of the Byzantine Empire ruled all or parts of Libya. The territory of modern Libya had separate histories until Roman times, as Tripoli and Cyrenaica.

Tripoli, was originally a group of Phoenician colonies dependent on Carthage. Phoenicians founded the three great cities (tri + polis) of Oea, Sabrata and Leptis Magna (site of magnificent Roman ruins). Carthage and its dependencies fell to Rome after the Third Punic War. Tripoli is the ancient sea port at the terminus of three great caravan routes linking the coast with Lake Chad and Timbuktu across the Sahara. Near the port of Tripoli stands a Roman triumphal arch with four richly sculpured fronts of white marble. It was begun in the reign of the emperor Antoninus Pius, according to a still-unmutilated dedicatory inscription, and finished under Marcus Aurelius.

Cyrenaica, by contrast, was Greek before it was Roman. It was also known as Pentapolis, the "five cities" being Cyrene (near the village of Shahat) with its port of Apollonia (Marsa Susa), Arsinoe (Tocra), Berenice (Bengazi) and Barca (Merj). From the oldest and most famous of the Greek colonies the fertile coastal plain took the name of Cyrenaica.
 

---

Posted by Hri (Member # 11484) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by argyle104:


They are among the most pathetic group of people that have ever infested this forum...

---

...says the "herpes infested" chipmunk
 

---

Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
 
KemsonReloaded,

That you see the African Union as evidence of genuine African unity is pathetic since it is largely funded by the west. You can't seriously talk of African rebirth and movements towards genuine unity when the old relations are still intact. Can you imagine NATO funded by Russia? LOL It seems your real concern is not Arab chauvinism but keeping the status quo in Africa under heels of the west.

Yet another example of how nonsensical and idiotic these faux Pan Africanists are can be seen in JMT post, who not only separates blacks/Africans from "Arabs" (without a shred of evidence of course), but seems to think that Rice's visit to Libya is proof against Gaddafi's long standing anti-colonial stance. LOL Why don't you boys or girls(?) take simple international politics class 101 before you come in here exposing yourselves as simpletons.
 

---

Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
 
Argyle may be a garden variety troll. But he does make a point sometimes.

The "victim" complex is no doubt a deep problem within many african american mindsets today and leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think this is what is basically trying to communicate in his own trollish manner.
 

---

Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^^^Better if he sticks to this more thoughtful approach.
 

---

Posted by ArabianArab (Member # 15626) on :
 
The Arab King of Kings of Africa demands the Negroid women cover their breast.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
It doesn't matter what banner African leaders come together under, it is whether the leaders THEMSELVES are progressive. If they just the same ol' flunkies doing the same old things, which do NOT benefit black African people, then it will just be another charade. The idea of an African union was not simply a name for an new exclusive club for same crooks that have been helping continue the foreign domination of Africa. It is the political ideology and goals behind such an organization that counts. Heck, for that matter anybody can call African leaders to be in United States of Africa and themselves as king of kings. It doesn't amount to anything if those involved aren't interested in real change.

quote:

---

The OAU had two primary aims:

* To promote the unity and solidarity of the African states and act as a collective voice for the African continent. This was important to secure Africa's long-term economic and political future. Years of colonialism had weakened it socially, politically and economically.
* The OAU was also dedicated to the eradication of all forms of colonialism, as, when it was established, there was still a number of states that had not yet won their independence or were minority-ruled. South Africa and Angola were two such countries. The OAU proposed two ways of ridding the continent of colonialism. Firstly, it would defend the interests of independent countries and help to pursue those of still-colonized ones. Secondly, it would remain neutral in terms of world affairs, preventing its members from being controlled once more by outside powers.

A Liberation Committee was established to aid independence movements and look after the interests of already-liberated states. The OAU also aimed to stay neutral in terms of global politics, which would prevent them from being controlled once more by outside forces – an especial danger with the Cold War.

The OAU had other aims, too:

* Ensure that all Africans enjoyed human rights.
* Raise the living standards of all Africans.
* Settle arguments and disputes between members – not through fighting but rather peaceful and diplomatic negotiation.


Soon after achieving independence, a number of African states expressed a growing desire for more unity within the continent. Not everyone was agreed on how this unity could be achieved, however, and two opinionated groups emerged in this respect:

* The Casablanca bloc, led by Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana, wanted a federation of all African countries. Aside from Ghana, it comprised also Algeria, Guinea, Morocco, Egypt, Mali and Libya. Founded in 1961, its members were described as "progressive states".
* The Monrovian bloc, led by Senghor of Senegal, felt that unity should be achieved gradually, through economic cooperation. It did not support the notion of a political federation. Its other members were Nigeria, Liberia, Ethiopia and most of the former French colonies.

The dispute was eventually resolved when Ethiopian emperor Haile Selassie I invited the two groups to Addis Ababa, where the OAU and its headquarters were subsequently established. The Charter of the Organisation was signed by 32 independent African states.

At the time of the OAU's disbanding, 53 out of the 54 African states were members; Morocco left on 12 November 1984 following the admission of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic as the government of Western Sahara in 1982.

The organisation was widely derided as a bureaucratic "talking shop" with little power. It struggled to enforce its decisions, and its lack of armed force made intervention exceedingly difficult. Civil wars in Nigeria and Angola continued unabated for years, and the OAU could do nothing to stop them.

The policy of non-interference in the affairs of member states also limited the effectiveness of the OAU. Thus, when human rights were violated, as in Uganda under Idi Amin in the 1970s, the OAU was powerless to stop them.

The Organisation was praised by Ghanaian former United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan for bringing Africans together. Nevertheless, in its 39 years of existence, critics argue that the OAU did little to protect the rights and liberties of African citizens from their own political leaders, often dubbing it as a "Dictators' Club"[1] or "Dictator's Trade Union"[2].

The OAU was, however, successful in some respects. Many of its members were members of the UN, too, and they stood together within the latter organisation to safeguard African interests – especially in respect of lingering colonialism. Its pursuit of African unity, therefore, was in some ways successful.

Total unity was difficult to achieve, however, as the OAU was largely divided. The former French colonies, still dependent on France, had formed the Monrovia Group, and there was a further split between those which supported the USA and those which supported the USSR in the Cold War of ideologies. The pro-Socialist faction was led by Kwame Nkrumah, while Félix Houphouët-Boigny of the Ivory Coast led the pro-capitalists. Because of these divisions, it was difficult for the OAU to take action against states involved in internal conflicts because it could rarely reach an agreement on what was to be done.

The OAU did, however, play a pivotal role in eradicating colonialism and minority rule in Africa. It gave weapons, training and military bases to colonised nations fighting for independence or majority rule. Groups such as the ANC and PAC, fighting apartheid, and ZANU and ZAPU, fighting for the independence of Southern Rhodesia, were aided in their endeavours by the OAU. African harbours were closed to the South African government, and South African aircraft were prohibited from flying over the rest of the continent. The UN was convinced by the OAU to expel South Africa from bodies such as the World Health Organization.

The OAU also worked with the UN to ease refugee problems. It set up the African Development Bank for economic projects intended to make Africa financially stronger. Although all African countries eventually won their independence, it remained difficult for them to become totally independent of their former colonisers. There was often continued reliance on the former colonial powers for economic aid, which often came with strings attached: loans had to be paid back at high interest-rates, and goods had to be sold to the aiders at low rates.

The USA and USSR intervened in post-colonial Africa in pursuit of their own objectives. Help was sometimes provided in the form of technology and aid-workers. While useful, such external assistance was often perceived[who?] as not necessarily in the best interests of the former colonies.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sportbilly:
This is some depressing, disgraceful, demoralizing sh*t!

Okay, so let me get this straight. A number of African "kings" came together --just out of curiosity, how many of these kings have brough prosperity to their people and not just themselves?-- and these self-appointed "dignataries" have chosen a "king of kings" --whatever the hell THAT is!-- and who do they choose?

Do they choose a non-arab/non-muslim? No! Perhaps somebody who represents what is quentessentially African? Of course not!
Do they even choose a black man? Nope!
Instead they choose some arab, because after all, what could possibly be more African than an arab squatter who owes his allegiance to the Arab League and not the African Union?

This article ought to read "200 of Africa's 'big men' rulers declared to the world that they have sold out."
Anyone who thinks this is a "great thing" or is even remotely good for Africa is a fucking fool! This is the first major step by the arabs toward a total takeover of africa. Islam paved the way, now it's time to use their Islamic flunkies and the corrupt and cowardly pretend "leaders" to finish the job.
The ONLY hope Africa has now is it's people. If they don't revolt to stop this, you will see not a United States of Africa, but a United States of Arabs.

Anyone who doubts that Africa is firmly in the grip of Islam and that most Africans are into arab-worship, this should be their wake-up call.
This is UTTERLY ridiculous! And f*cking disgraceful! And should it gain any traction, it will turn out to be utterly ruinous for Africa with a death toll into the tens of millions once the "unification" process starts. The arabs idea of African Unity is darfur --the arabs unify and kill all the Africas.
This latest plot is about solidifying Gadaffi's power, not Africa's


Dr John Henrik Clarke warned about precisely this. He said, "the arabs would de-populate Africa of Africans and replace them with arabs, Europeans and Asians." Look at this group of fools. What more blatant proof would you want that the arab's goal is to lead africa around by he nose until they gain the means to pull a continental-wide Darfur?
I know there are some self-hating blacks and undercover arabs in this thread and on these boards who are loving the sound of this. Well, it's going to be up to the African people themselves to stop it.
Gadaffi's NEVER lifted a finger to help blacks in Libya, what the hell makes you think he's suddenly become concerned for blacks now? He's put together a rubber-stamp organization whose purpose is to guarantee arab hegemony over ALL of Africa, not just north of the Sahara.
This oughta be clear even to the most dense of observers.

If this bullshit gains any traction then Africa is as good as finished. The arabs will simply use their "king of kings" position to enforce continental arabism and that will be the end of it.
Every African needs to be opposed to this.

The Africans don't need a small version of a one-world government, wihch is all this plot is. One Nation, Under the Arabs.
They don't need and arabs --who, in case some folks here have forgotten are occupiers and colonialists-- to solve their problems either. The best thing the Africans can do is put their own heads together and find the means to be free.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7588033.stm


A meeting of more than 200 African kings and traditional rulers has bestowed the title "king of kings" on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.


The rulers, wearing gold crowns, sequined capes and colourful robes met in the Libyan town of Benghazi in what was billed as a first of its kind.

Col Gaddafi urged the royals to join his campaign for African unity.

Africa's political leaders are lukewarm about his vision of merging their powers to create a single government.

"We want an African military to defend Africa, we want a single African currency, we want one African passport to travel within Africa," Col Gaddafi told the assembled dignitaries, who come from countries such as Mozambique, South Africa, Ivory Coast and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The BBC's Rana Jawad in the Mediterranean town of Benghazi says Libya's leader wants them to create a grass-roots movement to press Africa's political leaders to sign up to his vision.

Sheikh Abdilmajid from Tanzania told the BBC that the traditional rulers could play an important role.

"The people believe in the chiefs and kings more than they believe in their governments," he said.


-----------
Same story, different news magazine.

Gaddafi named 'king of kings'
29/08/2008 17:36 - (SA)

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2384883,00.html

Benghazi, Libya - Dignitaries from a host of African tribes have bestowed the title "king of kings" on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi during a visit marking the anniversary of the coup that brought him to power almost four decades ago.

"We have decided to recognise our brother leader as the 'king of kings, sultans, princes, sheikhs and mayors of Africa," said a statement from a forum grouping more than 200 tribal chiefs from Africa late on Thursday.

The tribesmen, many wearing golden crowns, colourful headdresses and robes, also presented Gaddafi with gifts including a "royal chair", an 18th century Qu'ran, ostrich eggs, traditional outfits and local products.

At the meeting in the Mediterranean city of Benghazi east of Tripoli, Gaddafi called his guests to "put pressure on their governments to move towards the unification of Africa and the creation of a United States of Africa."

During their visit, the tribal leaders visited Gaddafi's home in Benghazi which was among a series of targets of US raids in 1986 that killed 40 people including his adopted daughter.

Gaddafi took power after leading a military coup against King Idriss on September 1 1969.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
Read your links, but as far as sources go, what they say isn't suprising.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KemsonReloaded:
1) http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2261032,00.html

---

Not sure about a source as blindly, as blatently, and as obsequiously 'pro-Western-agenda' (in terms of exploitation) as that (above) one, but I'd agree that we'd need to watch this guy who is so self-oriented with African unity as would we need to eye any other African leader - they all have their problems.

The goal is African Unity, and as was said, it doesn't matter who brings it, just how it's done.

Now I vote lamin , or at least I vote in lamin as an advisor - but seriously, I'd fight for a leader as bright as lamin long as I new what they were really about.

---

Vulcan or not.
 

---

Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:
Interesting phenomenon:

Depaite the fact that there has historically a phenomenon called "Arab expansionism"--whereby the culture, religion and population settlements from the Arabian peninsula have extended into other areas--the results are to be pondered.

Arabs constitute less than 1% of the population of Asia and less than 1% of the population of Europe(including Russia).

In terms of religious affiliation the Islamic faith is adhered to by approximately 3% of Europeans and some 16% of Asia. As an exmaple of the impact of cultural Arabism in Asia consider the ongoing hostilities and animosities between Muslims and Hindus in India and its hinterlands of Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The Americas, Australasia and other areas of European settlement are in the same category as Europe proper.


In Africa self-defined "Arabs" are some 16% of Africa's population while the Islamic faith is adhered to by some 45% of the population.

Thus it seems that Africa seems to have been more accomodating of Arab expansionism in terms of cultural transformation and religion than other areas.

Combine Arabism with Francophonie, Anglophonie, Lusitaphonie, Diaspora African, Continental African, "White" African[which many Africans now accept], black African, Sub-Saharan African, etc. and here you have a whole people with divided souls and lots of personality complexes and problems.

---