Will Smith will take on the role of the pharaoh Taharqa for Columbia’s “The Last Pharaoh” – which will be written by Randall Wallace (“Braveheart”). Taharqa was the pharaoh who fought against Assyrian invaders in ancient Egypt.
Variety reports that Smith will also produce the film with James Lassiter and Ken Stovitz for Overbrook Entertainment. The film has reportedly been a dream project for Smith, and the actor took the story to Wallace.
The film will follow Taharqa’s war with Assyrian leader Esarhaddon in 677 B.C.
Smith is set to return to the screen in Columbia’s "Seven Pounds" – which reteams the actor with his "Pursuit of Happyness" director Gabriele Muccino. The film is produced by Overbrook with Escape Artists.
Personally, Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless. Although I'm worried about how the Egyptians will be depicted. I won't be surprised if this turns out to be a National Geographic fantasy re-enactment of black Kushites but Arab or pseudo-Arab 'caucasian' Egyptians. Also, even though Will Smith is a good actor that last movie he made, 'Hancock' was awful and if I didn't know any better I'd say he is suffering from the Scientologist's curse that Tom Cruise is suffering from if you know what I mean!
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ BS - especially coming from you!
Taharqa was stereotypically Black looking.
And Hancock was a damn good flick. It about time super heroes were depicted as flawed.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
No strike against you, but it seems that every time an opportunity like this becomes available, people seem to always emphasis trivialities, like "is his skin dark enough", or "is his features broad enough". I don't see any evidence for this statement Djehuti. I'm sure a great many of Kushites were of a darker complexion, but as seen in the example of the tomb of Huey, I don't have any objections to the notion that many Kushites would have looked similar to Will Smith.
I'm personally not worried about how Egyptians are portrayed since they describe Taharqa as an Egyptian! I'm sure given the plot overview, they wouldn't be too keen on confusing viewers by showing a pharaoh who looked drastically different from the general population, regardless if historically, Taharqa is known as a "Kushite" (whom already had a blood relation with Egyptians anyways), since there needs to be a contrast made with the Assyrians. I'm sure the Egyptians won't look more like the Assyrians than they do thier Pharaoh.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote: Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine. Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ BS to you too. Ancient Egyptians generally looked like modern day Ethiopians
Nubians looked like the stereotypical Black person. But thats the point - its a stereotype and not what Black people really look like - great diversity there.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: ^ BS to you too. Ancient Egyptians generally looked like modern day Ethiopians
And I thought by now you would know that modern day Ethiopians vary in looks from the typical narrow features to broad features.
quote:Nubians looked like the stereotypical Black person. But thats the point - its a stereotype and not what Black people really look like - great diversity there.
'Nubians' are not a single group but consist of many ethnic entities that said, you can't stereotype any look about them!
Seriously, Osirion you can't be calling out b.s. on anybody, or is this another attempt at being facetious again? Then again you did say 'Hancock' was good.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: ^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine.
My point exactly! I'm glad somebody understood!
But hey, this is Hollywood we are talking about so let's be glad they chose Will Smith and not 'The Rock' or Vin Deisel for godsakes!
That said, again I don't trust any movie made nowadays if the starring actors are scientologists.
Posted by Obelisk_18 (Member # 11966) on :
Whats ur beef with scientology? lol
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
Originally posted by osirion
quote:Nubians looked like the stereotypical Black person. But thats the point - its a stereotype and not what Black people really look like - great diversity there.
Lmao one word to describe your post
con·tra·dic·tion
the act of contradicting; gainsaying or opposition. 2. assertion of the contrary or opposite; denial. 3. a statement or proposition that contradicts or denies another or itself and is logically incongruous. 4. direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency. 5. a contradictory act, fact, etc.
quote: Nubians looked like the stereotypical Black person.
and then you say
quote:its a stereotype and not what Black people really look like - great diversity there.
^^^^ Surely some idiocy at work there huh?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned.
If this isn't some of the nutties stuff posted. So you believe that Will Smith is mixed? Newsflash einstein, both of his parents are African American.
Its obvious that you believe in the "True Negro" race myth. Established by racist anthropologist and geneticist in order to steal African history and culture.
Only the mentally sick would follow the above belief.
You see people, this Knowledgeiskey718 character (who is possibly a sockpuppet of ...) believes that True Negroes exist and that they are the world's slaves.
In Knowledgeiskey718's mind:
1. True Negroes exist 2. True Negroes have been and are nothing but slaves 3. Will Smith doesn't look like a True Negro 4. Since Will Smith doesn't look like a True Negro, he must be mixed. Because no one in Africa that has either Will Smith's look or skin color was ever brought over from Africa as a slave.
You see, this freakishly deranged train of thought believes that no Moroccans, Ethiopians, Sudanese, Libyans, Algerians, Somalis were ever brought over as slaves since they are not true negroes.
Exactly the type of deranged mentality that one would expect from someone who admires the sforza clown.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
osirion wrote:
quote: ^ BS to you too. Ancient Egyptians generally looked like modern day Ethiopians
No the Ancient Egyptians looked like the people of Sudan and the indigenous people of Egypt.
Your warped fantasy of Ancient Egyptians being Ethiopians, who are nowhere near Egypt and certainly not closer to Egypt than the Sudanese and the Egyptians themselves has been debunked.
You seriously need to take a break from your fantasies.
quote: Nubians looked like the stereotypical Black person.
What does a stereotypical black person look like?
I'll repeat. You seriously need to take a break from your fantasies.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Perhaps Knowledgeiskey718 can explain why he has such a pathological hatred for people that he considers true negroes.
The fact that there is historical factual evidence that people from England to Germany to Turkey to Iran to West Asians (the so called Middle East) to Indians (India) to non-"True Negro"(his term people not mine) Africans were shipped all across the globe including the Americas as slaves from the 1400s to early 1900s. Yet he engages in historical apartheid in much the same manner as some amateur from one of the race loon forums, speaks volumes of a mentality that has gone horribly astray.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: ^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion?
The above is really insane not to mention sick.
People you can tell when someone has been brainwashed because they always speak in terms of "stereotypical".
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:If this isn't some of the nutties stuff posted. So you believe that Will Smith is mixed? Newsflash einstein, both of his parents are African American.
Its obvious that you believe in the "True Negro" race myth. Established by racist anthropologist and geneticist in order to steal African history and culture.
Argyle argyle, when will you learn? I suppose not today or ever. Ridiculous notions of ME believing in a True Negro" is indeed the most illogical nonsensical erroneously propagated bullshit on ever put forward on this board, but then again, it's you argyle. So what can I expect?
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Personally, Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless. Although I'm worried about how the Egyptians will be depicted. I won't be surprised if this turns out to be a National Geographic fantasy re-enactment of black Kushites but Arab or pseudo-Arab 'caucasian' Egyptians. Also, even though Will Smith is a good actor that last movie he made, 'Hancock' was awful and if I didn't know any better I'd say he is suffering from the Scientologist's curse that Tom Cruise is suffering from if you know what I mean!
Sorry, I know its sound a bit uneducated but when I picture the Kushites I see Dark black to Brown skinned Africans and Egyptians as Browinish, Red and Yellow skinned Africans. The Ancient egyptians dipicted themselves as such....Will Smith could easily fit as Eithr Egyptian or Kushite....but I think that Dijmon Houson is the immidiate picture of a Hollywood Taraqo I personally think Will Smith would better suit Nub-Maat-Re....Amunhotep the 3rd http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8553/baard029pt.jpg Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Perhaps Knowledgeiskey718 can explain why he has such a pathological hatred for people that he considers true negroes.
Perhaps you should stop projecting and bullshitting around this forum and provide something of relevance.
projecting One entry found.
project[2,verb]
to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
Wow one thing just stuck me...LOL in the picture of the "Procession of the Kushites" from the tomb of Huy....The fourth Nubian from t the left doesn't have the "stereotypical features the Eurocentrics say the Nubians were depicted if im not mistaken the Artist shows that particular man with a pointy nose and little prothagism and with his brown skin he could easily pass as Egyptian.....This proves the closest ethnic group to Egyptians both modern and Ancient were the Nubians!!!
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:This proves the closest ethnic group to Egyptians both modern and Ancient were the Nubians!!!
Well, exactly. This is already known, and the notion of distinguishing between Nubians and Egyptians is illogical being that they're both Africans/Egyptians and share genetic lineages as well as phenotypes. Albeit phenotype can not be correlated to a specific haplotype. Being that many West and Central Africans carrying E1b1a, can also exhibit profiles attributed to outside admixture or the erroneous E3b "caucasoid" notion.
^^^^Are these Nubians blonde, red haired as well?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:It's about the flawed concept of Nubian dynasty, which I don't think you are defending, and which is, after all...the title of the thread.
Indeed, I think I understand what you're saying. The separation of Ancient Egyptians and Nubians is more of a Eurocentric ruse than actual truth. We can see the Badarians match up with Mesolithic Nubians, and many Egyptian profiles could easily be considered "Nubian". As we can see from the X-Ray Atlas of The Royal Mummies.
James Harris and Edward Wente:
In summation, the New Kingdom Pharaohs and Queens whose mummies have been recovered bear strong similarity to either contemporary Nubians, as with the XVII and XVIII dynasties, or with Mesolithic-Holocene Nubians, as with the XVIV and XX dynasties. The former dynasties seem to have a strong southern affinity , while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types and also, possibly, with remnants of the old Tasian and Natufian populations. From the few sample available from the XXI Dynasty, there may have been a new infusion from the south at this period.
while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types
^^^Since many Crania are falsely considered "Mediterranean" I am pretty skeptical about the notion of them mixing with "Mediterranean". Could basically just be another group of Indigenous Africans.
Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:This proves the closest ethnic group to Egyptians both modern and Ancient were the Nubians!!!
Well, exactly. This is already known, and the notion of distinguishing between Nubians and Egyptians is illogical being that they're both Africans/Egyptians and share genetic lineages as well as phenotypes. Albeit phenotype can not be correlated to a specific haplotype. Being that many West and Central Africans carrying E1b1a, can also exhibit profiles attributed to outside admixture or the erroneous E3b "caucasoid" notion.
^^^^Are these Nubians blonde, red haired as well?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:It's about the flawed concept of Nubian dynasty, which I don't think you are defending, and which is, after all...the title of the thread.
Indeed, I think I understand what you're saying. The separation of Ancient Egyptians and Nubians is more of a Eurocentric ruse than actual truth. We can see the Badarians match up with Mesolithic Nubians, and many Egyptian profiles could easily be considered "Nubian". As we can see from the X-Ray Atlas of The Royal Mummies.
James Harris and Edward Wente:
In summation, the New Kingdom Pharaohs and Queens whose mummies have been recovered bear strong similarity to either contemporary Nubians, as with the XVII and XVIII dynasties, or with Mesolithic-Holocene Nubians, as with the XVIV and XX dynasties. The former dynasties seem to have a strong southern affinity , while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types and also, possibly, with remnants of the old Tasian and Natufian populations. From the few sample available from the XXI Dynasty, there may have been a new infusion from the south at this period.
while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types
^^^Since many Crania are falsely considered "Mediterranean" I am pretty skeptical about the notion of them mixing with "Mediterranean". Could basically just be another group of Indigenous Africans.
Its just sad how the Best books on the Kushites are titled or include the title "Black" Pharaoh despite the fact that some of the prolific and Important Pharaohs of Egypt( Dojser, Menes, Amunhotep 3, Senrusret, Sesotris were depicted as BLACK with Full Lips and Broad features.....
Compare the Egyptian to the Kushites.. Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:This proves the closest ethnic group to Egyptians both modern and Ancient were the Nubians!!!
Well, exactly. This is already known, and the notion of distinguishing between Nubians and Egyptians is illogical being that they're both Africans/Egyptians and share genetic lineages as well as phenotypes. Albeit phenotype can not be correlated to a specific haplotype. Being that many West and Central Africans carrying E1b1a, can also exhibit profiles attributed to outside admixture or the erroneous E3b "caucasoid" notion.
^^^^Are these Nubians blonde, red haired as well?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:It's about the flawed concept of Nubian dynasty, which I don't think you are defending, and which is, after all...the title of the thread.
Indeed, I think I understand what you're saying. The separation of Ancient Egyptians and Nubians is more of a Eurocentric ruse than actual truth. We can see the Badarians match up with Mesolithic Nubians, and many Egyptian profiles could easily be considered "Nubian". As we can see from the X-Ray Atlas of The Royal Mummies.
James Harris and Edward Wente:
In summation, the New Kingdom Pharaohs and Queens whose mummies have been recovered bear strong similarity to either contemporary Nubians, as with the XVII and XVIII dynasties, or with Mesolithic-Holocene Nubians, as with the XVIV and XX dynasties. The former dynasties seem to have a strong southern affinity , while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types and also, possibly, with remnants of the old Tasian and Natufian populations. From the few sample available from the XXI Dynasty, there may have been a new infusion from the south at this period.
while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types
^^^Since many Crania are falsely considered "Mediterranean" I am pretty skeptical about the notion of them mixing with "Mediterranean". Could basically just be another group of Indigenous Africans.
Its just sad how the Best books on the Kushites are titled or include the title "Black" Pharaoh despite the fact that some of the prolific and Important Pharaohs of Egypt( Dojser, Menes, Amunhotep 3, Senrusret, Sesotris were depicted as BLACK with Full Lips and Broad features.....
Compare the Egyptian to the Kushites..
Some of the Kushites are shown lighter than the Pharaoh(Ramses).
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote: Important Pharaohs of Egypt( Dojser, Menes, Amunhotep 3, Senrusret, Sesotris were depicted as BLACK with Full Lips and Broad features.....
As did most of the Egyptians in general.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Statue of Queen Ahmose-Nefertari, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, reign of Ahmose, ca. 1550–1525 B.C. Egyptian
Sculptor's model of the head of Akhenaten, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, reign of Akhenaten, ca. 1349–1336 B.C. Egyptian
Relief of Queen Nefertiti, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, ca. 1352–1336 B.C.
Head of Amenhotep III, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, reign of Amenhotep III, ca. 1390–1352 B.C. Egyptian
Head of Tutankhamun, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, reign of Tutankhamun, ca. 1336–1327 B.C. Egyptian
Head of Queen Tiye, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, ca. 1388–1340 B.C. Egyptian
Head of Amenmesse, New Kingdom, Dynasty 19, reign of Amenmesse, ca. 1203–1200 B.C. Egyptian
Osirid figure of Merneptah, New Kingdom, Dynasty 19, reign of Merneptah, ca. 1213–1203 B.C. Egyptian
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:How different is an African American from a Jamaican? Or an Oromo from Somali?
Of course there could have been different African people who would provide a sort of distinction, but the point is they were African.
Note how the supposed "Negroid" presence in Egypt is always explained by a Southern intrusion, but also note this is because some Ancient Egyptians fit a orthogonal profile, which many indigenous Africans fit. Elongated Africans adapted to a hot/dry climate exhibit these keen features. So in actuality, the differences, and examples that are presented between populations (upper and lower Egypt), is actually because many Africans exhibit different profiles, there is NO true Negro. Anthropologist falsely classify Elongated Africans as a Mediterranean type, which is absolutely false., and this is why Ancient Egyptians are falsely classified as such(Mediterraneans).
The point that needs to be taken is, the Ancient Egyptians exhibited super tropically adapted limbs and there was absolutely NO distinction or confusion or change about this, tropically adapted Egyptians is a fact. Arabs and Europeans are NOT tropically adapted. Plain and simple.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Argyle argyle, when will you learn? I suppose not today or ever. Ridiculous notions of ME believing in a True Negro" is indeed the most illogical nonsensical erroneously propagated bullshit on ever put forward on this board, but then again, it's you argyle. So what can I expect?
People notice that he runs, ducks, and hides from the questions that I asked. The above is not an answer.
Rather his response is a tepid attempt at denial because he knows that his intra African racism has been exposed.
By denying and not providing answers, Knowledgeiskey718 is waving the white flag of intellectual surrender.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Perhaps you should stop projecting and bullshitting around this forum and provide something of relevance.
projecting One entry found.
project[2,verb]
to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects
People, again notice the non-answer. He's still running for cover.
Shall I post them again?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
Originally posted by argtroll on the Kabyle Berber thread,
quote: You see folks this type of emotional response is the result of one being challenged and not expecting to be challenged. This guy thought that he could actually get away with posting unsubstantiated personal opinion and is now thrashing like a tranquilized man in a straight jacket as a result.
In other words Knowledgeiskey718's response is the equivalent of waving the white flag of intellectual defeat.
Notice he says the same things all the time. Notice after I gave him an intellectual virtual slap he stood quiet, but still has nerve to reply to me. My response to him.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Knowledgeiskey718
Well, here's why. We know man originated in East Africa. Afrasan Language also originated in East Africa, as well as E3b. We know there was no migration from the middle east(no evidence for it). It was actually a migration from East Africa, into the Near East, and also into North Africa. Bringing along with them E3b and the Afrasan language and agriculture etc.. North Africans have become admixed since the Neolithic, White pale skin, is NOT indigenous to Africa.
------ Still Evolving, Human Genes Tell New Story
"Anthropologists have generally assumed that the first modern humans to arrive in Europe some 45,000 years ago had the dark skin of their African origins, but soon acquired the paler skin needed to admit sunlight for vitamin D synthesis.
The finding of five skin genes selected 6,600 years ago could imply that Europeans acquired their pale skin much more recently. Or, the selected genes may have been a reinforcement of a process established earlier, Dr. Pritchard said.
The five genes show no sign of selective pressure in East Asians. "
------
Christopher Ehret
"Furthermore, the archaeology of northern Africa DOES NOT SUPPORT demic diffusion of farming from the Near East. The evidence presented by Wetterstrom indicates that early African farmers in the Fayum initially INCORPORATED Near Eastern domesticates INTO an INDIGENOUS foraging strategy, and only OVER TIME developed a dependence on horticulture. This is inconsistent with in-migrating farming settlers, who would have brought a more ABRUPT change in subsistence strategy. The same archaeological pattern occurs west of Egypt, where domestic animals and, later, grains were GRADUALLY adopted after 8000 yr B.P. into the established pre-agricultural Capsian culture, present across the northern Sahara since 10,000 yr B.P. From this continuity, it has been argued that the pre-food-production Capsian peoples spoke languages ancestral to the Berber and/or Chadic branches of Afroasiatic, placing the proto-Afroasiatic period distinctly before 10,000 yr B.P."
A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA variation In North Africa.
Arredi et al 2004
"Thus, although Moroccan Y lineages WERE interpreted as having a predominantly Upper Paleolithic origin from East Africa (Bosch et al. 2001), according to our TMRCA estimates, NO POPULATIONS within North African samples analyzed here have a substantial Paleolithic contribution."
"Under the hypothesis of a neolithic demic expansion from the Middle East, the likely origin of E3b in East Africa could indicate a local contribution to the North African neolithic transition (Barker 2003) or an earlier migration into the Fertile Crescent, preceeding the expansion back into Africa.
-------
Of course Nebel et al. has clearly demonstrated that Haplogroup J in North Africa MAINLY date from the Arab invasion and NOT the neolithic period. Hence the East to West Neolithic migration Arredi et al. mentions is really the expansion of saharan cattle herders/ceramic makers from the Sudanese Nile Valley into the Central sahara during the Early Holocene. As the sahara dessicated, the central saharans migrated into the Maghreb, West Africa and back to the Nile.
So now that we know, these original North Africans, were Indigenous Africans, who migrated from sub-Saharan East Africa, into North Africa and the Near East, if you say the original North Africans didn't resemble East Africans before becoming mixed, then what did they look like genius??? E3b is one of the dominant Y haplogroups in North Africa. There is no one basic look for an East African, the physical and genetic diversity is enormous, and won't allow it, and you can find almost every feature from around the world in these INDIGENOUS AFRICANS!! We know Berber was spoken before 10,000 B.P. The pale skin is a recent adaptation, which evolved in Europe, NOT AFRICA, around 6,600kya. We know, many North Africans are mixed with outside, West Asian and European lineages...... Anything else TROLL??!!
Matter of fact, any evidence to the contrary? I really hope so, being that you had the audacity to reply towards me.
^^^Indeed he never had a rebuttal, instead he goes around trolling.
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Personally, Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless. Although I'm worried about how the Egyptians will be depicted. I won't be surprised if this turns out to be a National Geographic fantasy re-enactment of black Kushites but Arab or pseudo-Arab 'caucasian' Egyptians. Also, even though Will Smith is a good actor that last movie he made, 'Hancock' was awful and if I didn't know any better I'd say he is suffering from the Scientologist's curse that Tom Cruise is suffering from if you know what I mean!
I wish people would stop this. Hollywood is not going to go out of their way to find someone who looks EXACTLY Kushitic. Most people just know the Kushites as BLACK...which is what Will Smith is. Someone posted a picture of Djimon Honsou...he may be African, but Will Smith is about the only person in Hollywood that could get this made. The last few movies he's been in have been GOLD. Trust me, the fat cats wouldn't give this the green light if they didn't think it would make any money.
I want to see how they handle the Israel thing.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Personally, Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless. Although I'm worried about how the Egyptians will be depicted. I won't be surprised if this turns out to be a National Geographic fantasy re-enactment of black Kushites but Arab or pseudo-Arab 'caucasian' Egyptians. Also, even though Will Smith is a good actor that last movie he made, 'Hancock' was awful and if I didn't know any better I'd say he is suffering from the Scientologist's curse that Tom Cruise is suffering from if you know what I mean!
I wish people would stop this. Hollywood is not going to go out of their way to find someone who looks EXACTLY Kushitic. Most people just know the Kushites as BLACK...which is what Will Smith is. Someone posted a picture of Djimon Honsou...he may be African, but Will Smith is about the only person in Hollywood that could get this made. The last few movies he's been in have been GOLD. Trust me, the fat cats wouldn't give this the green light if they didn't think it would make any money.
To me, it seems even some of the veteran posters are susceptible to a ture negro false dichotmoy between the Egyptians and Kushites, hence the criticism of a "Will SMith" playing the role of a Kushite by way of asserting that "Nubians were generally portrayed darker" than Egyptians, even in the face of evidence to the contrary that not all were. Parts of this discussion doesn't make sense, frankly. Djehuti's post above doesn't make much sense and his point misses me.
@Knowledge..
How do you know that WIll SMith is mixed? What percentage of his blood line is non-African, and as a matter of relevance I will ask you the same about Taharqa.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718
quote: Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Originally posted by Sundjata
quote: How do you know that WIll SMith is mixed? What percentage of his blood line is non-African
You're right. I don't know if Will Smith is mixed, and I never said he was. I said he most likely is mixed, does NOT mean I am saying he has an immediate white ancestor, NO. Nor am I saying he is no longer African, which would be retarded. Many African Americans have Native American and European bloodlines that go back 100's of years, this is undeniable. So me saying he is likely to be mixed because he is an A.A and is lighter skinned, because we know A.A's have Native American and European ancestry as well. What's the problem????
Don't let this troll argyle fool you into thinking someone believes in a "true-negro", because it seems that's where you're comment stemmed from.
quote: and as a matter of relevance I will ask you the same about Taharqa.
See that's the thing. Taharqa, along with all other Egyptians as well, WERE indigenous African people, with no outside lineages, and no possibility of it either, as we know the possibility is there for an A.A. Get it? Got it? Good!
----------
Some of my posts on Egyptians and Nubians
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:How different is an African American from a Jamaican? Or an Oromo from Somali?
Of course there could have been different African people who would provide a sort of distinction, but the point is they were African.
Note how the supposed "Negroid" presence in Egypt is always explained by a Southern intrusion, but also note this is because some Ancient Egyptians fit a orthogonal profile, which many indigenous Africans fit. Elongated Africans adapted to a hot/dry climate exhibit these keen features. So in actuality, the differences, and examples that are presented between populations (upper and lower Egypt), is actually because many Africans exhibit different profiles, there is NO true Negro. Anthropologist falsely classify Elongated Africans as a Mediterranean type, which is absolutely false., and this is why Ancient Egyptians are falsely classified as such(Mediterraneans).
The point that needs to be taken is, the Ancient Egyptians exhibited super tropically adapted limbs and there was absolutely NO distinction or confusion or change about this, tropically adapted Egyptians is a fact. Arabs and Europeans are NOT tropically adapted. Plain and simple.
[/QB][/QUOTE]
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:This proves the closest ethnic group to Egyptians both modern and Ancient were the Nubians!!!
Well, exactly. This is already known, and the notion of distinguishing between Nubians and Egyptians is illogical being that they're both Africans/Egyptians and share genetic lineages as well as phenotypes. Albeit phenotype can not be correlated to a specific haplotype. Being that many West and Central Africans carrying E1b1a, can also exhibit profiles attributed to outside admixture or the erroneous E3b "caucasoid" notion.
^^^^Are these Nubians blonde, red haired as well?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:It's about the flawed concept of Nubian dynasty, which I don't think you are defending, and which is, after all...the title of the thread.
Indeed, I think I understand what you're saying. The separation of Ancient Egyptians and Nubians is more of a Eurocentric ruse than actual truth. We can see the Badarians match up with Mesolithic Nubians, and many Egyptian profiles could easily be considered "Nubian". As we can see from the X-Ray Atlas of The Royal Mummies.
James Harris and Edward Wente:
In summation, the New Kingdom Pharaohs and Queens whose mummies have been recovered bear strong similarity to either contemporary Nubians, as with the XVII and XVIII dynasties, or with Mesolithic-Holocene Nubians, as with the XVIV and XX dynasties. The former dynasties seem to have a strong southern affinity , while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types and also, possibly, with remnants of the old Tasian and Natufian populations. From the few sample available from the XXI Dynasty, there may have been a new infusion from the south at this period.
while the latter possessed evidence of mixing with modern Mediterranean types
^^^Since many Crania are falsely considered "Mediterranean" I am pretty skeptical about the notion of them mixing with "Mediterranean". Could basically just be another group of Indigenous Africans.
Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
quote:To me, it seems even some of the veteran posters are susceptible to a ture negro false dichotmoy between the Egyptians and Kushites, hence the criticism of a "Will SMith" playing the role of a Kushite by way of asserting that "Nubians were generally portrayed darker" than Egyptians, even in the face of evidence to the contrary that not all were. Parts of this discussion doesn't make sense, frankly. Djehuti's post above doesn't make much sense and his point misses me.
^ I think thats unfair to say.
Its clear that the kushites, were in fact, probably darker on average than the average egyptian, but it does'nt make either more of a "true negro" than the other. It has nothing to do with "negroness", which is a red-herring. The sudanese are simply closer to the equator and hence usually darker.
It would be far more accurate to cast hounsou as a taharqa than it would be will smith. However both are still black.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mmmkay: [QB]
quote:To me, it seems even some of the veteran posters are susceptible to a ture negro false dichotmoy between the Egyptians and Kushites, hence the criticism of a "Will SMith" playing the role of a Kushite by way of asserting that "Nubians were generally portrayed darker" than Egyptians, even in the face of evidence to the contrary that not all were. Parts of this discussion doesn't make sense, frankly. Djehuti's post above doesn't make much sense and his point misses me.
^ I think thats unfair to say.
Its clear that the kushites, were in fact, probably darker on average than the average egyptian, but it does'nt make either more of a "true negro" than the other. It has nothing to do with "negroness", which is a red-herring. The sudanese are simply closer to the equator and hence usually darker.
It would be far more accurate to cast hounsou as a taharqa than it would be will smith. However both are still black.
I wouldn't say it's unfair since admixture was arbitrary attributed to WIll Smith, hence, this transposes to the Egyptians since it is claimed that WIll SMith (a so-called mixed Negro) would be better represented as Egyptian. Kushites are not so drastically close to the equator that the complexion seen on Will Smith should be non-existent there. As seen in the tomb of huey, I have no idea why that would be an argument. Africans aren't static or phenotypically predictable. Usually that is common knowledge on this board. I don't get it.. The complaints are petty as hell to me.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey:
You're right. I don't know if Will Smith is mixed, and I never said he was. I said he most likely is mixed, does NOT mean I am saying he has an immediate white ancestor, NO. Nor am I saying he is no longer African, which would be retarded. Many African Americans have Native American and European bloodlines that go back 100's of years, this is undeniable. So me saying he is likely to be mixed because he is an A.A and is lighter skinned, because we know A.A's have Native American and European ancestry as well. What's the problem????
Would you not say that this is highly speculative and hence, does little to advance the position that this individual indeed IS mixed? Because SOME other people are mixed, he "likely" is? Umm.. Most likely as in, a high percentage of likelyhood or low percentage of likelyhood? Is it 50% likely that he is 50% mixed?
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Will Smith is a light skinned black man. He is much lighter than the average central Sudanese. Kush was in central Sudan. Therefore, Will Smith is not the best suited to play the pharaoh Tarharqa. Period.
Sudanese dark on the left, medium on the right and Will: Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
^Tell that to the Kushites portrayed in the tomb of Huey. Posting pictures of some random modern man in Central Sudan is just picture spam. You are good with pictures Doug, but right now if they aren't photos/depictions of ancient Kushites, then they are irrelevant. The tomb of huey depicts individuals approaching the complexion of Will Smith. Sudanese and northeast Africans aren't monolithic, period. No ammount of simplification and generalizing will obscure this reality. One shade too light, one shade too dark, who gives a crap?! He is black. Prove he is mixed or admit that those making an issue out of it simply make no sense.
ALso, show me a portrait of Taharqa, affirming that he was so "Blackish", compared to Will SMith. Some of you 90% of the time scholars kill me with your 10% race purist nonsense. Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
I don't talk to wall paintings and I hope you don't either. The point is that the people of Sudan are not on average as LIGHT as Will Smith. So tell THEM he is a PERFECT example of an ancient Kushite. Sorry, but many of them would LAUGH at you. Sudanese are some of the DARKEST people on average in Africa and everyone knows it, including the ancient Egyptians. It is a patently ABSURDLY STUPID statement to claim that modern Sudanese do not have similar features to the images of the Kushites in Ancient Egyptian tombs. AND only a RETARD would argue whether an African American is CLOSER to the Kushites than a Sudanese. So what is the point? Are you living in fantasy land and ready for HOLLYWOOD to give you your reality. Hollywood is FANTASY BABY. If you want to see what ancient Kushites looked like, then the BEST place to go IS SUDAN and nowhere else. People quibbling over this are RETARDED because movies are not about HISTORICAL ACCURACY and nobody should treat this as anything more than movie magic. The fact that some are SO CONCERNED about it shows how much POWER HOLLYWOOD has over the minds of those who should know better. F*CK hollywood. It is a business and they don't care one bit about historical truth. In fact it is an agent of propaganda and those FOOLS who believe in it and rely on it for their "reality" deserve to B.S. that they get.
This isn't about Will Smith, it is about SUDAN. Sudanese in Sudan around the region of ancient Kush are NOT on average as light as Will Smith. And the colors on the ancient Egyptian tombs only show that some Kushites were very dark and others weren't, just like in Sudan today. There is nothing to change that fact. Will Smith is on average much lighter than the AVERAGE person from Sudan, who IS the closest to the ancient Kushites.
All your wailing and antics are simply childish. In fact, compared to the darkest Sudanese, even Damon Honsou is relatively light. You need to learn something about the actual people of Sudan before posting your gibberish, which has no bearing on the FACTS. Will Smith is NOT Sudanese and is a light skinned African AMERICAN. The two are not one and the same, even if they are both black peoples.
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
Or just grab a Modern Nubian to play the part and have will smith as a co-star. I just hope they dont paint him black like Forrest Whitaker playing Edi Amin. That would suck big time. The story would be great though. And it would be a HISTORICAL movie on Ancient Sudan.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Kush was in central Sudan and not "Nubia". Nubia was in the North of Sudan into Southern Egypt. Kush was around the 4th cataract in central Sudan.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
LOL - Fresh Prince of Egypt (nice one)
I (or anyone who's seen many Egyptians and Sudanese) definitely don't buy the arguement that he doesn't have the features for the role.
As far as Kemetians in their own art go:
Standard:
Sometimes they weren't always portrayed in the same hue. Generally, you could say they portrayed themselves in a dark brown color.
For instance, in some of their art, you see them with a reddish tint, in other art, you don't:
Eurocentrists love to go hysterical over pronounced features in one group of Nehesyprisoners, yet you will find alot of distinct Egyptian features as well:
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
Also, it's funny that many people haphazardly state that the darkest shades are always reserved for the Southerners, when this isn't the case.
Kemetian people:
Southerners (Kemetians on the right):
Also: Notice "Ancient Egypt's" [Kemet's] women are often painted with a yellowish tint? Sometimes, women are depicted in a medium brown tone, sometimes, a light brown tone, and other times, dark tones.
In this picture, everyone is:
In these they are not:
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
Kemetians:
Southerners:
Punt is where the Dynastic people claim to come from
Medjay
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
The art is just conventions, so it's not good to generalize:
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I don't talk to wall paintings and I hope you don't either. The point is that the people of Sudan are not on average as LIGHT as Will Smith. So tell THEM he is a PERFECT example of an ancient Kushite. Sorry, but many of them would LAUGH at you. Sudanese are some of the DARKEST people on average in Africa and everyone knows it, including the ancient Egyptians. It is a patently ABSURDLY STUPID statement to claim that modern Sudanese do not have similar features to the images of the Kushites in Ancient Egyptian tombs. AND only a RETARD would argue whether an African American is CLOSER to the Kushites than a Sudanese. So what is the point? Are you living in fantasy land and ready for HOLLYWOOD to give you your reality. Hollywood is FANTASY BABY. If you want to see what ancient Kushites looked like, then the BEST place to go IS SUDAN and nowhere else. People quibbling over this are RETARDED because movies are not about HISTORICAL ACCURACY and nobody should treat this as anything more than movie magic. The fact that some are SO CONCERNED about it shows how much POWER HOLLYWOOD has over the minds of those who should know better. F*CK hollywood. It is a business and they don't care one bit about historical truth. In fact it is an agent of propaganda and those FOOLS who believe in it and rely on it for their "reality" deserve to B.S. that they get.
This isn't about Will Smith, it is about SUDAN. Sudanese in Sudan around the region of ancient Kush are NOT on average as light as Will Smith. And the colors on the ancient Egyptian tombs only show that some Kushites were very dark and others weren't, just like in Sudan today. There is nothing to change that fact. Will Smith is on average much lighter than the AVERAGE person from Sudan, who IS the closest to the ancient Kushites.
All your wailing and antics are simply childish. In fact, compared to the darkest Sudanese, even Damon Honsou is relatively light. You need to learn something about the actual people of Sudan before posting your gibberish, which has no bearing on the FACTS. Will Smith is NOT Sudanese and is a light skinned African AMERICAN. The two are not one and the same, even if they are both black peoples.
Relatively lighter [than the darkest side of the spectrum] Brown skin as a non-average doesn't equate such as being an outliner. What evidence do you have that it would have been rare or "unlikely" that an ancient northeast African Kushite would hold this complexion? What complexion was Taharqa then? Why work with hypotheticals? It's also funny how you don't talk to wall paintings, but you speak for them, ala "they'd laugh at you" (of course assuming that they'd chase your ridiculous straw man). Only a "RETARD" would imply that *any* modern population or individual can be a"perfect" representation of what *any* ancient population looked like overall, physically. Only a "RETARD" would post pictures of ancient and modern Sudanese who exhibit various brown complexions, then turn around and make the generalized, half true claim that "Sudanese are among the darkest people in the world", which is true, but means nothing considering in context, the indigenous bioethnic diversity also present there (you have no point). Only a mentally deluded junky will attribute such a hideously misplaced claim such as "modern Sudanese do not have similar features to the images of the Kushites in Ancient Egyptian tombs" (wtf?) to someone who never made it. And ONLY a spaced out loon will call his own self a retard, by stating: "only a RETARD would argue whether an African American is CLOSER to the Kushites than a Sudanese". Hence, you are the only one who "argues" this.
Disregarding the rest of your misdirected mumbo jumbo/straw man infested babble, I guess I should make clear my point.
It seems to me Doug, that some individuals above all else, do possess a unique and valued understanding about issues and topics relevant to Africana studies discourse, yet on occasion can seem about as misguidedly ignorant, petty, and racially obsessed as those they most often criticize. It seems remarkably apparent to me the inherent prejudice expressed, ala in the fashion of Spike Lee's "School Daze". Of course Will Smith isn't Sudanese. He's an American actor playing in an American movie, and is physically a Black man. He's playing a character. A role. An African man playing another African. Why you can't comprehend that is beyond me and not my problem. As stated, again, show me a portrait of Taharqa presenting him as someone "too black" to be played by another black man. A true monolithic negro of sorts.
If you're mad though that a modern Sudanese man wasn't casted in an American film, then just say that. Otherwise you seem like a race baiting, skin color obsessed weirdo.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Obelisk_18: Whats ur beef with scientology? lol
Actually, I don't have any problem with 'scientology' even though it is nothing more than a crazy cult started by a bad science fiction writer. Rather, I am weary of the fact that Scientologist actors, especially the most famous in Hollywood have been making flop movies lately-- from Tom Cruise to Will Smith with that 'Hancock'. Now I don't know if this is purely coincidence or if thier religion is somehow screwing up their Hollywood careers.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Oh and to gArgoyle, I predicted you would make more than just the usual couple of posts with petty comments in this thread. Considering, that the topic is more trivial and non scholarly or scientific.
But as usual, you come with more false accusations end empty rhetoric. You accuse Knowledge of using the "true Negroid" stereotype on Will Smith even though that is not so. Just Because both of Will Smith's parents are African American does not mean he has no mixed ancestry. Since as many as 30% of African Americans do possess some non-African ancestry. Even those that are very dark in complexion and look stereotypically "negroid" could have either white or Native American ancestry, let alone lighter skinned ones.
But I don't expect a neurotic white Brit who trolls this forum with your male lovers to understand.
But we all know your M.O. you are the member of the apres-scee gang that criticizes and mocks other forum members based on nothing more than false accusations and a dumb sense of humor. You contribute nothing but snide and stupid remarks. You say Knowledge or others are racist when you and lovers are the only racist ones here, I remember you even calling my ethnicity out since it is the only thing you can do.
The fact that you brought up racial notions like "negroid" as a way for Europeans to appropriate things is hilarious considering that you are a white European who used racial/ethnic slurs.
But regardless, we are talking about actors looking historically like the people they were portraying.
Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Personally, Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: show me a portrait of Taharqa presenting him as someone "too black" to be played by another black man. A true monolithic negro of sorts.
If you're mad though that a modern Sudanese man wasn't casted in an American film, then just say that. Otherwise you seem like a race baiting, skin color obsessed weirdo.
Mary is stupid and Doug is just anal.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Ah, another member of the apres-scee gang. The anti-jewish bigot. By the way, you are one of the last people to be calling others anal if you know what I mean.
Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
Hey Mary, why doesn't Will look like a Kushite? Is it because he's a "true negro" or is it because Kushites were "true Negros"? Oh how I love your brand of Africana! LOL
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata:
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Personally, Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless. Although I'm worried about how the Egyptians will be depicted. I won't be surprised if this turns out to be a National Geographic fantasy re-enactment of black Kushites but Arab or pseudo-Arab 'caucasian' Egyptians. Also, even though Will Smith is a good actor that last movie he made, 'Hancock' was awful and if I didn't know any better I'd say he is suffering from the Scientologist's curse that Tom Cruise is suffering from if you know what I mean!
I wish people would stop this. Hollywood is not going to go out of their way to find someone who looks EXACTLY Kushitic. Most people just know the Kushites as BLACK...which is what Will Smith is. Someone posted a picture of Djimon Honsou...he may be African, but Will Smith is about the only person in Hollywood that could get this made. The last few movies he's been in have been GOLD. Trust me, the fat cats wouldn't give this the green light if they didn't think it would make any money.
To me, it seems even some of the veteran posters are susceptible to a ture negro false dichotmoy between the Egyptians and Kushites, hence the criticism of a "Will SMith" playing the role of a Kushite by way of asserting that "Nubians were generally portrayed darker" than Egyptians, even in the face of evidence to the contrary that not all were. Parts of this discussion doesn't make sense, frankly. Djehuti's post above doesn't make much sense and his point misses me.
@Knowledge..
How do you know that WIll SMith is mixed? What percentage of his blood line is non-African, and as a matter of relevance I will ask you the same about Taharqa.
It has nothing at all to do with True Negro. I'm pointing out a FACT that Will Smith is Black and I think it's stupid that people argue that he's not "Black enough." Hollywood doesn't give a damn about that. There are PLENTY of Blacks in America that are much lighter-skinned than Will Smith. Smith is not the darkest brotha, but MANY Blacks in America (who this film no doubt is being made for...and the Western world as a whole) ARE his complexion. I'm slightly darker than he is, but there are some in my family with his complexion.
My point is, we're finally getting a respectable movie on an African Empire and people don't even act happy. Just want to criticize.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote:
--------------------------------- Since as many as 30% of African Americans do possess some non-African ancestry. Even those that are very dark in complexion and look stereotypically "negroid" could have either white or Native American ancestry, let alone lighter skinned ones. ---------------------------------
Who the hell made you an authority on African Americans? This is absolutely laughable that someone from the Phillopeeenes is trying to be an authority on another group of people.
You better get out of here with your whacked out fantasies and worry about the Phillopeenes who seem to have been sodomized by every one from African Americans to white Americans to Japanese to Chinese to the Spanish to the Arabs.
Good grief look at the above list of people.
Just because for whatever reason your people couldn't stand up and resist everyone on the planet having there way with them doesn't give you the right to project your peoples sorry ancestrial state on other groups.
`_`
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
"Since as many as 30% of African Americans do possess some non-African ancestry"
How this number miraculously jumped from 20% to 30% is beyond me, but I will say that the above point is lost on me. Besides, how is this any different than Eurocentric claims that East Africans are 40% non-African?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: "Since as many as 30% of African Americans do possess some non-African ancestry"
How this number miraculously jumped from 20% to 30% is beyond me, but I will say that the above point is lost on me.
Genes, peoples, and languages
L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
A classic example of gene replacement are Black Americans (not represented in the tree of Fig. 3, which includes only aboriginal people), who notoriously have a lighter skin color than Black Africans, their ancestors. This is especially true in the northern States. Genetic analysis shows that African Americans have on average 30% of their gene pool from European (White American) genes (28). This partial replacement took place over about 300 years of contact, and it is calculated that, if it was constant in time, there must have been about 3% of mixed unions per generation. Laws assured that the child of mixed parentage would be considered Black. Only individuals with a very low proportion of Black ancestry (or of skin color) would be able to “pass” as White. With gene flow continuing at that same rate, only about 30% of the original gene constitution would remain on average after 1,000 years since the beginning, and about 9% after 2,000 years (1).
quote: Besides, how is this any different than Eurocentric claims that East Africans are 40% non-African?
It completely debunks it, because African Americans that they love call "Negroid" actually have this admixture and not too sure any AA's possess a profile that is known from Elongated Africans who are erroneously explained through outside admixture. If this was the case, then lightskin African Americans should look like Elongated Africans.
Perfect example is Paul Kagame who isn't an E1b1b carrier, but rather an E1b1a, he is a Tutsi and most closely related to the Hutu.
Besides aren't the studies where East Africans being mixed is only certain tribes of certain countries? And most are wrong since M1 and U6 was falsely classified as Eurasian?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by akoben: Hey Mary, why doesn't Will look like a Kushite? Is it because he's a "true negro" or is it because Kushites were "true Negros"? Oh how I love your brand of Africana! LOL
Neither, since there is no such thing as "true negro" in the first place. Also I'm not an Africanist, I'm just into history and culture in general thankyou. But your ass is definitely not into Africana, but rather hide behind it as a cover for your anti-jewish bigotry!
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Who the hell made you an authority on African Americans? This is absolutely laughable that someone from the Phillopeeenes is trying to be an authority on another group of people.
I never said I was an authority on African Americans, but unlike you I am an American born in the states and am not from the Philippines, nit wit! And what I said about African Americans is a statistical American genetic fact, you twit.
quote:You better get out of here with your whacked out fantasies and worry about the Phillopeenes who seem to have been sodomized by every one from African Americans to white Americans to Japanese to Chinese to the Spanish to the Arabs.
Good grief look at the above list of people.
Just because for whatever reason your people couldn't stand up and resist everyone on the planet having there way with them doesn't give you the right to project your peoples sorry ancestrial state on other groups.
`_`
What you say makes no sense. The Philippines was conquered once by the Spanish which lost to the Americas from which they gained independence. The Japanese shortly occupied the Philippines during WWII but they did so with many other Asian nations including Korea, China, etc. There was no Chinese or Arab conquest! LOL
And you are the last person to talk about fantasies of sodomy!
Why don't you and your boyfriend Akoben stop sexually harassing me and leave this forum so you can 'carry on' together. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
Genes, peoples, and languages
L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
A classic example of gene replacement are Black Americans (not represented in the tree of Fig. 3, which includes only aboriginal people), who notoriously have a lighter skin color than Black Africans, their ancestors. This is especially true in the northern States. Genetic analysis shows that African Americans have on average 30% of their gene pool from European (White American) genes (28). This partial replacement took place over about 300 years of contact, and it is calculated that, if it was constant in time, there must have been about 3% of mixed unions per generation. Laws assured that the child of mixed parentage would be considered Black. Only individuals with a very low proportion of Black ancestry (or of skin color) would be able to “pass” as White. With gene flow continuing at that same rate, only about 30% of the original gene constitution would remain on average after 1,000 years since the beginning, and about 9% after 2,000 years (1).
Correct. Which is another reason why the concept of 'race' is spurious. You can't tell a persons ancestry soley by their looks. This is also the reason why the so-called 'purity' of whites not only in America but in Europe and other parts of the world is in question. Admixtue works both ways.
quote:It completely debunks it, because African Americans that they love call "Negroid" actually have this admixture and not too sure any AA's possess a profile that is known from Elongated Africans who are erroneously explained through outside admixture. If this was the case, then lightskin African Americans should look like Elongated Africans.
Perfect example is Paul Kagame who isn't an E1b1b carrier, but rather an E1b1a, he is a Tutsi and most closely related to the Hutu.
That's because again, lineage does not correlate with phenotype.
quote:Besides aren't the studies where East Africans being mixed is only certain tribes of certain countries? And most are wrong since M1 and U6 was falsely classified as Eurasian?
Actually the studies that emphasize admixture among Ethiopians are those based on paternal lineages. There are West Asian J lineages among some Ethiopians, specifically among Abyssians like Amhara and Tigre where they reach a frequency of 40%. But Amhara and Tigre do not represent most Ethiopians, let alone all of Ethiopia. The predominant ethnic group of Ethiopia are the Oromo and even excluding them E3b still accounts for most of Ethiopia's paternal lineages.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
posted by Djehuti
quote:That's because again, lineage does not correlate with phenotype.
That was the whole point of this post. Lol
quote:It completely debunks it, because African Americans that they love call "Negroid" actually have this admixture and not too sure any AA's possess a profile that is known from Elongated Africans who are erroneously explained through outside admixture. If this was the case, then lightskin African Americans should look like Elongated Africans.
Perfect example is Paul Kagame who isn't an E1b1b carrier, but rather an E1b1a, he is a Tutsi and most closely related to the Hutu.
------------
quote: posted by Djehuti specifically among Abyssians like Amhara and Tigre where they reach a frequency of 40%. But Amhara and Tigre do not represent most Ethiopians, let alone all of Ethiopia.
Yea that's why I asked, aren't the studies on East Africans only done on certain tribes in certain countries I.e, not all East Africans are 40% West Asian, Just like not all African Americans are 30% European.
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
^Even that figure is wrong.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
No the Ancient Egyptians looked like the people of Sudan and the indigenous people of Egypt.
Indigenous people of Egypt? And who are these people that are pure indigenous people of Egypt?
quote:
Your warped fantasy of Ancient Egyptians being Ethiopians
What? I said they generally looked like modern day Ethiopians. I didn't say they were Ethiopians.
quote: What does a stereotypical black person look like?
Like Will Smith - idiot.
As for Ethiopians - whenever I see Egyptian Art I am reminded of them.
Don't know if I have seen depictions of Egyptians with such curves though:
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Explorateur: ^Even that figure is wrong.
Please elaborate on which one? Or if both.
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
^That claim: "There are West Asian J lineages among some Ethiopians, specifically among Abyssians like Amhara and Tigre where they reach a frequency of 40%." Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Explorateur: ^That claim: "There are West Asian J lineages among some Ethiopians, specifically among Abyssians like Amhara and Tigre where they reach a frequency of 40%."
Oh ok, so what are the actual percentages? Since this is one thing Euro-centrists love to mention, since I already know it was only a few tribes that exhibited admixture, if any, now it would be great to know the actual percentage in Ethiopians, I can't seem to find any other studies.
Anyway, point is features of East Africans can not be attributed to outside influence, being that this influence should have affected skin color and skeletal elongation as well, which it didn't.
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
Well it is a matter of precision; whatever the study might be, that percentage must obvioulsy only reflect the sample size of the tested parties.
As for Eurocentrists making a mole hill out of misreading some study, they do so, because they know next to nothing about how population genetics studies work, and never set foot in Ethiopia.
Posted by Nebsen (Member # 13728) on :
personally, I would rather see Dijmon Houson in the staring role as Taharqa. In fact for the past 5 years I have been invisioning a film about Taharqa (with Dijmon Houson) that would be made by one of Hollywoods Black elite such as Will Smith.
But with that said, Will Smith could work out just fine. They have makeup now that can give him a realistic darker hue if authenticity is what they are after & if he is open to it.
I just hope my man Dijmon Houson is in it, as well as Idris Elba,who I think would also make a great Taharqa. Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Goddamn!! look at the curves on that sh1t. NICE!!! Although not a butt/chest man. Prefer tall ones with legs. But that is nice. Don't like the red hair un-natural stuff .
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104:
No the Ancient Egyptians looked like the people of Sudan and the indigenous people of Egypt.
Indigenous people of Egypt? And who are these people that are pure indigenous people of Egypt?
quote:
Your warped fantasy of Ancient Egyptians being Ethiopians
What? I said they generally looked like modern day Ethiopians. I didn't say they were Ethiopians.
quote: What does a stereotypical black person look like?
Like Will Smith - idiot.
As for Ethiopians - whenever I see Egyptian Art I am reminded of them.
Don't know if I have seen depictions of Egyptians with such curves though:
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
While Will Smith is an excellcent actor,excluding his typical pop corn movies, I feel that there are better ''black'' actors more suited to play historical roles. My fear is that an attempt at a serious ancient Egyptian movie is going to be turned into a typical blockbuster fare.
I am glad that Nebsen mentioned Idris Elba. He definately has the acting chops to pull off a convincing role as an ancient Egyptian pharoah. Djimon Hounsou, as mentioned, and Chiwetel Ejiofor. Loved his performance in Dirty Pretty Things despite it being an okay movie to me.
Djehuti, I think you are being a little harsh on Handcock. Definately not a masterpiece but not the worst movie out this summer. I enjoyed the plot twist. The twist was original and well excuted despite the uneven flow of the entire movie. I was entertained but not amazed. Since I saw it for free I cannot complain.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Chiwetel Ejiofor. Is that the black English dude in Serenity(the bad guy) and Sci-Fi about the last black pregnant girl.
If it is him? Excellent/convincing actor for the lead role.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Don't know about Serenity but he was in Children of Men(movie about the black pregnant girl).
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I don't talk to wall paintings and I hope you don't either. The point is that the people of Sudan are not on average as LIGHT as Will Smith. So tell THEM he is a PERFECT example of an ancient Kushite. Sorry, but many of them would LAUGH at you. Sudanese are some of the DARKEST people on average in Africa and everyone knows it, including the ancient Egyptians. It is a patently ABSURDLY STUPID statement to claim that modern Sudanese do not have similar features to the images of the Kushites in Ancient Egyptian tombs. AND only a RETARD would argue whether an African American is CLOSER to the Kushites than a Sudanese. So what is the point? Are you living in fantasy land and ready for HOLLYWOOD to give you your reality. Hollywood is FANTASY BABY. If you want to see what ancient Kushites looked like, then the BEST place to go IS SUDAN and nowhere else. People quibbling over this are RETARDED because movies are not about HISTORICAL ACCURACY and nobody should treat this as anything more than movie magic. The fact that some are SO CONCERNED about it shows how much POWER HOLLYWOOD has over the minds of those who should know better. F*CK hollywood. It is a business and they don't care one bit about historical truth. In fact it is an agent of propaganda and those FOOLS who believe in it and rely on it for their "reality" deserve to B.S. that they get.
This isn't about Will Smith, it is about SUDAN. Sudanese in Sudan around the region of ancient Kush are NOT on average as light as Will Smith. And the colors on the ancient Egyptian tombs only show that some Kushites were very dark and others weren't, just like in Sudan today. There is nothing to change that fact. Will Smith is on average much lighter than the AVERAGE person from Sudan, who IS the closest to the ancient Kushites.
All your wailing and antics are simply childish. In fact, compared to the darkest Sudanese, even Damon Honsou is relatively light. You need to learn something about the actual people of Sudan before posting your gibberish, which has no bearing on the FACTS. Will Smith is NOT Sudanese and is a light skinned African AMERICAN. The two are not one and the same, even if they are both black peoples.
Relatively lighter [than the darkest side of the spectrum] Brown skin as a non-average doesn't equate such as being an outliner. What evidence do you have that it would have been rare or "unlikely" that an ancient northeast African Kushite would hold this complexion? What complexion was Taharqa then? Why work with hypotheticals? It's also funny how you don't talk to wall paintings, but you speak for them, ala "they'd laugh at you" (of course assuming that they'd chase your ridiculous straw man). Only a "RETARD" would imply that *any* modern population or individual can be a"perfect" representation of what *any* ancient population looked like overall, physically. Only a "RETARD" would post pictures of ancient and modern Sudanese who exhibit various brown complexions, then turn around and make the generalized, half true claim that "Sudanese are among the darkest people in the world", which is true, but means nothing considering in context, the indigenous bioethnic diversity also present there (you have no point). Only a mentally deluded junky will attribute such a hideously misplaced claim such as "modern Sudanese do not have similar features to the images of the Kushites in Ancient Egyptian tombs" (wtf?) to someone who never made it. And ONLY a spaced out loon will call his own self a retard, by stating: "only a RETARD would argue whether an African American is CLOSER to the Kushites than a Sudanese". Hence, you are the only one who "argues" this.
Disregarding the rest of your misdirected mumbo jumbo/straw man infested babble, I guess I should make clear my point.
It seems to me Doug, that some individuals above all else, do possess a unique and valued understanding about issues and topics relevant to Africana studies discourse, yet on occasion can seem about as misguidedly ignorant, petty, and racially obsessed as those they most often criticize. It seems remarkably apparent to me the inherent prejudice expressed, ala in the fashion of Spike Lee's "School Daze". Of course Will Smith isn't Sudanese. He's an American actor playing in an American movie, and is physically a Black man. He's playing a character. A role. An African man playing another African. Why you can't comprehend that is beyond me and not my problem. As stated, again, show me a portrait of Taharqa presenting him as someone "too black" to be played by another black man. A true monolithic negro of sorts.
If you're mad though that a modern Sudanese man wasn't casted in an American film, then just say that. Otherwise you seem like a race baiting, skin color obsessed weirdo.
The evidence is in Sudan itself and needs no explaining. Will Smith is much lighter than the average Sudanese from the region of Kush. That is a FACT. Period. Whether he makes this movie or not or plays the part of Tarharqa that still will be a fact. ALL movies even those portraying WHITE historical figures have been critiqued on whether or not certain actors are "more suitable" for certain roles. It is part of movie making. The fact that Will Smith is not as dark as many Sudanese does not mean he is not black, that is just YOU making a retarded strawman argument. Nobody said Will wasn't black. I just said that he IS NOT as dark as many Sudanese and NOT as dark as most ancient Kushites, including Tarharqa. And like I said, it is a movie and therefore I don't expect it to be 100% historically accurate to begin with and I certainly do not expect it to tell a TRUE history of Egypt and Kush, regardless of whether Will Smith or any other black man decided to take it on. I don't rely on hollywood to tell African history. Will Smith is a force in hollywood in terms of money making power and if he can pull of something that is more accurate than standard hollywood stuff about Africa, especially the nonsense about Egypt, then fine. But I am not expecting any sort of ground breaking and B.S. smashing anti-eurocentric film here. The fact that it is about Tarharqa makes it even more likely that it ISN'T going to address those "hard" issues. That right there should tell you something.... And just to let you know, many African Americans actually think the Egyptians were white or mixed, possibly even Will. And even more unfortunate is the fact that many of them actually suck up everything they see in movies as being faithful and accurate.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: "Since as many as 30% of African Americans do possess some non-African ancestry"
How this number miraculously jumped from 20% to 30% is beyond me, but I will say that the above point is lost on me.
Genes, peoples, and languages
L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
A classic example of gene replacement are Black Americans (not represented in the tree of Fig. 3, which includes only aboriginal people), who notoriously have a lighter skin color than Black Africans, their ancestors. This is especially true in the northern States. Genetic analysis shows that African Americans have on average 30% of their gene pool from European (White American) genes (28). This partial replacement took place over about 300 years of contact, and it is calculated that, if it was constant in time, there must have been about 3% of mixed unions per generation. Laws assured that the child of mixed parentage would be considered Black. Only individuals with a very low proportion of Black ancestry (or of skin color) would be able to “pass” as White. With gene flow continuing at that same rate, only about 30% of the original gene constitution would remain on average after 1,000 years since the beginning, and about 9% after 2,000 years (1).
quote: Besides, how is this any different than Eurocentric claims that East Africans are 40% non-African?
It completely debunks it, because African Americans that they love call "Negroid" actually have this admixture and not too sure any AA's possess a profile that is known from Elongated Africans who are erroneously explained through outside admixture. If this was the case, then lightskin African Americans should look like Elongated Africans.
Perfect example is Paul Kagame who isn't an E1b1b carrier, but rather an E1b1a, he is a Tutsi and most closely related to the Hutu.
Besides aren't the studies where East Africans being mixed is only certain tribes of certain countries? And most are wrong since M1 and U6 was falsely classified as Eurasian?
No offense whatsoever brotha man, but L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza isn't the only geneticist in history and this still doesn't address why these figures keep bouncing around from as much as 15 - 30%, yet you guys' seem comfortable in running with this 30% figure as some kind of unwaverable truth. Parra et al. 1998 estimated as much as a 20% admixture and Smith (2004) estimated 16-19%. You also seem unaware of the implications of my question. How is this any different than the claims of Eurocentrics who cite that East Africans are 40%? Phenotype has nothing to do with it.
....................
As for the movie and people still complaining about a Black man casted to play another Black man, frankly, you people need to get a life, and I'm sorry I went there but it is freakishly odd to me the critiques being flung around against something that is otherwise commendable.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
osirion wrote:
--------------------------- Indigenous people of Egypt? And who are these people that are pure indigenous people of Egypt? ---------------------------
You can injece "pure" as a strawman all that you want. I'll leave that for the posters that match your lower level of intellect.
The indigenous people of Egypt and the Sudanaese are who the ancient egyptians looked like. Not the Ethiopians that apparently you like to use to pleasure yourself.
-------------------------- Like Will Smith - idiot. --------------------------
What is stereotypical about Will Smith?
I'm noticing that alot of these race loons tend to be these horny pathetic individuals who use "mixed" to further enhance their how shall we say it? Their self-pleasuring pleasure.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
Knowledgeiskey.. I must be frank. You DID imply that Will Smith's appearance is due to admixture and that a so-called mixed Negro would resemble the Egyptians more so than he would any Kushite. I'm not sure how else to interpet such a view other than to conclude that you assume the ancient Egyptians to have been a mixed people. Yes, you've tried to clarify your statement but in the process you contradict what you've already stated and implied (as with the above post). Freudian slip, perhaps?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote: Knowledgeiskey.. I must be frank.
I am knowledge, nice to meet you Frank.
quote: You DID imply that Will Smith's appearance is due to admixture
I said it most likely due to admixture. What's your point? I never said Egyptians are mixed, sorry kid.
quote: and that a so-called mixed Negro would resemble the Egyptians more so than he would any Kushite.
Never said that, but anyway what I said was not because he is mixed, but because he is a lighter brown skin, whereas Nubians are usually darker,(as I said, I've seen Nubians depicted lighter but usually they're darker), this doesn't make one more African than the other, those are your thoughts and not mine, please don't attribute your thoughts to me.
quote:I'm not sure how else to interpet such a view other than to conclude that you assume the ancient Egyptians to have been a mixed people.
Wow, then maybe you need to attend a language arts class immediately, because you've came to the WRONG conclusion and made an ASS-umption. Anyone who as any kind of brainpower, who reads my comments would know you're simply projecting.
quote: Yes, you've tried to clarify your statement but in the process you contradict what you've already stated and implied (as with the above post). Maybe it was a Freudian slip?
I made myself clear the first time, Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is medium brown tone as were most Egyptians, NOT because he is mixed, sorry you had a miscommunication, and it's not my fault that you listen to trolls like xxy and argyle. You should choose better co-signers next time. Anyway it seems to me, many people agree with what I said, and it seems, like I said, the only ones who agree with you, are trolls. Why do you think this is?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Told you the guy is a . . .fraud. I can smell them out.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
Knowledge.. My name isn't Frank, it's Sundjata and I don't need a language arts class to understand what you yourself stated so "artfully" in my primary "language". The fact that this is all based on an ASS-umption that YOU (not me) made about a particular actor's ancestral background, is definitely ironic, wouldn't you say? In any event, I stand by my points of contention. I believe you when you say that the evidence suggests that the ancient Nile valley populations were primarily native ("non-mixed"), though I also believe that this may be hard for you to accept in the face of Eurocentric obsfucation, hence, the said Fruedian slip of equating what you deem to be a mixed Negro, with that of the ancient Egyptians. I see no way around that besides admitting your own folly.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
Perhaps you think you can smell them out because you're a Fraud yourself? Stop projecting on others xyy
^^^With a beak like that, I am pretty sure you can smell everything. Follow your nose....... Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
There you go insulting the man's nose. and what is wrong with a aquiline nose? Not having one myself but I don't see a problem with it.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Knowledge.. My name isn't Frank, it's Sundjata and I don't need a language arts class to understand what you yourself stated so "artfully" in my primary "language". The fact that this is all based on an ASS-umption that YOU (not me) made about a particular actor's ancestral background, is definitely ironic, wouldn't you say? In any event, I stand by my points of contention. I believe when you say that the evidence suggests that the ancient Nile valley populations were primarily native ("non-mixed"), though I also believe that this may be hard for you to accept in the face of Eurocentric obsfucation, hence, the said Fruedian slip of equating what you deem to be a mixed Negro, with that of the ancient Egyptians. I see no way around that besides admitting your folly.
Or you can just read the original comment again. I guess with 4th graders I have to be more specific.
"Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion?"
^^^^^Let's make this clear for the kids, WILL SMITH COULD PLAY A BETTER EGYPTIAN BECAUSE HE IS A LIGHTER TONED BROWN, AS WERE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS, AND NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE MIXED. I DO NOT THINK ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE MIXED AT ALL.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote: Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: There you go insulting the man's nose. and what is wrong with a aquiline nose? Not having one myself but I don't see a problem with it.
Please, like I said before, you don't fool anyone(well at least not me) you're transparent, figuratively and literally speaking.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Knowledge.. My name isn't Frank, it's Sundjata and I don't need a language arts class to understand what you yourself stated so "artfully" in my primary "language". The fact that this is all based on an ASS-umption that YOU (not me) made about a particular actor's ancestral background, is definitely ironic, wouldn't you say? In any event, I stand by my points of contention. I believe when you say that the evidence suggests that the ancient Nile valley populations were primarily native ("non-mixed"), though I also believe that this may be hard for you to accept in the face of Eurocentric obsfucation, hence, the said Fruedian slip of equating what you deem to be a mixed Negro, with that of the ancient Egyptians. I see no way around that besides admitting your folly.
Or you can just read the original comment again. I guess with 4th graders I have to be more specific.
"Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion?"
^^^^^Let's make this clear for the kids, WILL SMITH COULD PLAY A BETTER EGYPTIAN BECAUSE HE IS A LIGHTER TONED BROWN, AS WERE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS, AND NOT, I REPEAT, NOT BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE MIXED. I DO NOT THINK ANCIENT EGYPTIANS WERE MIXED AT ALL.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote: Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine.
The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud, but your reactionary behavior indicates some deep seeded insecuriy issues. You seem panicky as if you were on the verge of being exposed. Even a 4th grader can realize the mistakes you've made given your subjective reasoning process, in "maybe" Will Smith is mixed, and "maybe" the Egyptians looked like him but were not mixed, yet he's playing the role of a Kushite, and we all know Kushites don't look "mixed", like ancient Egyptians and Will Smith did/do.
Also, posting some photo of another actor, as if by circular argumentation you look to conclude based on your own premise that Taharqa looked like him, then that can be attributed only to your own naivette and only lowers your marketing value as an aspiring scholar.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud
Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
quote: Even a fourth grader can realize the mistakes you made given your subjective reasoning process, in "maybe" Will Smith is mixed, and "maybe" the Egyptians looked like him but were not mixed,
Actually no, "maybe" is because many lighter skinned African Americans, NOT AFRICANS in general. African Americans are NOT the only AFRICANS outside of AFRICA. When you see a lightskin African from a Hispanic country wouldn't you think he's mixed? Man, please many Caribbean African descended Hispanics look exactly like African Americans, and these Caribbean African descended Hispanics are mixed.
quote: yet he's playing the role of a Kushite, and we all know Kushites don't look "mixed", like ancient Egyptians and Will Smith did/do.
Lmao Sun, are you describing your own feelings?
Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: While Will Smith is an excellcent actor,excluding his typical pop corn movies, I feel that there are better ''black'' actors more suited to play historical roles. My fear is that an attempt at a serious ancient Egyptian movie is going to be turned into a typical blockbuster fare.
I am glad that Nebsen mentioned Idris Elba. He definately has the acting chops to pull off a convincing role as an ancient Egyptian pharoah. Djimon Hounsou, as mentioned, and Chiwetel Ejiofor. Loved his performance in Dirty Pretty Things despite it being an okay movie to me.
Djehuti, I think you are being a little harsh on Handcock. Definately not a masterpiece but not the worst movie out this summer. I enjoyed the plot twist. The twist was original and well excuted despite the uneven flow of the entire movie. I was entertained but not amazed. Since I saw it for free I cannot complain.
I understand the feeling and agree that Smith is not the best who could be chosen. But most people don't know who Djimon Honsou is or even the Black British guy...he's even less known. It's GOOD that Will Smith is doing this because it can maximize viewers to a subject that they (for the most part) know nothing about. Whereas just picking someone because he's the darkest may not do that.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
Oh yea...
quote:I made myself clear the first time, Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is medium brown tone as were most Egyptians,
According to who? I mean, going by such logic, Will Smith would be equally suited to play Ghandi. This, albeit after considering the stylistic convention of Egyptian portraiture, greco-Roman descriptions, and melanin extraction from mummified remains, I see no evidence to support your assertion that the ancient Egyptians were "medium" brown, or any skeletal evidence suggesting the Egyptians (especially southern) to be phenotypically distinct from the Kushites [in, how can Smith resemble one but not the other?]. Keita, Zakrzewski, and others actually contradict you. So in other words, your argument is petty and misguided.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote: I mean, going by such logic, Will Smith would be equally suited to play Ghandi.
Oh come on, let's not be silly. Again your applying your own logic.
quote: So in other words, your argument is petty.
No, actually your argument is petty, because there is like 30 posts which agree with me, yet you're attacking me? Lol. And ones that agree with you are, hmmmm, TROLLS? Okay then.
Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
Posted by Red,White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
A darker skinned actor should play Taharqa. I like Will Smith. He's the highest paid actor in America right now. I guess that means he's the highest pain actor in the world with billions of dollars worth of box offfice receipts.
Do the modern Sudanese Northern Nubians prefer reddish brown skin?
Would a very dark actor remind them of the Southern Sudanese they constantly fight against?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by ausar: While Will Smith is an excellcent actor,excluding his typical pop corn movies, I feel that there are better ''black'' actors more suited to play historical roles. My fear is that an attempt at a serious ancient Egyptian movie is going to be turned into a typical blockbuster fare.
I am glad that Nebsen mentioned Idris Elba. He definately has the acting chops to pull off a convincing role as an ancient Egyptian pharoah. Djimon Hounsou, as mentioned, and Chiwetel Ejiofor. Loved his performance in Dirty Pretty Things despite it being an okay movie to me.
Djehuti, I think you are being a little harsh on Handcock. Definately not a masterpiece but not the worst movie out this summer. I enjoyed the plot twist. The twist was original and well excuted despite the uneven flow of the entire movie. I was entertained but not amazed. Since I saw it for free I cannot complain.
I understand the feeling and agree that Smith is not the best who could be chosen. But most people don't know who Djimon Honsou is or even the Black British guy...he's even less known. It's GOOD that Will Smith is doing this because it can maximize viewers to a subject that they (for the most part) know nothing about. Whereas just picking someone because he's the darkest may not do that.
Good points
Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
Genes, peoples, and languages
L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
A classic example of gene replacement are Black Americans (not represented in the tree of Fig. 3, which includes only aboriginal people), who notoriously have a lighter skin color than Black Africans, their ancestors. This is especially true in the northern States. Genetic analysis shows that African Americans have on average 30% of their gene pool from European (White American) genes (28). This partial replacement took place over about 300 years of contact, and it is calculated that, if it was constant in time, there must have been about 3% of mixed unions per generation. Laws assured that the child of mixed parentage would be considered Black. Only individuals with a very low proportion of Black ancestry (or of skin color) would be able to “pass” as White. With gene flow continuing at that same rate, only about 30% of the original gene constitution would remain on average after 1,000 years since the beginning, and about 9% after 2,000 years (1).
Correct. Which is another reason why the concept of 'race' is spurious. You can't tell a persons ancestry soley by their looks. This is also the reason why the so-called 'purity' of whites not only in America but in Europe and other parts of the world is in question. Admixtue works both ways.
Notice how these frauds will rail against Eurocentric misconceptions of Africans yet fall back on said Eurocentrics? LOL Cavalli-Sforza on Caucasian "admixture" in Ethiopians. Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
^Akoben, for one of the few moments I've taken your posts seriously, devoid of any personal attacks (from me OR you), you actually make a lot of sense.
@Knowledge
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:@Knowledge
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
Originally posted by akoben/argyle
quote:Notice how these frauds will rail against Eurocentric misconceptions of Africans yet fall back on said Eurocentrics? LOL Cavalli-Sforza on Caucasian "admixture" in Ethiopians.
I knew akoben/argyle were one and the same. Damned shame.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:@Knowledge
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
I'm referring to what you posted already, both here and elsewhere, addressing the topic in question. Though this doesn't at all address my point about your ASSumption about Will Smith "probably" being "mixed" because he's "medium" brown, and that this "mixed" man, as a direct result of his admixture, likely resembled ancient Egyptians, who by extension of inference, resembled "mixed" people, such as Will SMith. All of this of course under the general ASSumption that Kushites do not look "mixed" and thus, should not be played by someone who is "probably" mixed. Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
Talk about lack of comprehension. I WAS referring to his comment while questioning why it is your responses to me lack so much class, as I wasn't the one who called you a fraud. Jeeze. I only question your judgment on this issue.
quote: Actually no, "maybe" is because many lighter skinned African Americans, NOT AFRICANS in general. African Americans are NOT the only AFRICANS outside of AFRICA. When you see a lightskin African from a Hispanic country wouldn't you think he's mixed? Man, please many Caribbean African descended Hispanics look exactly like African Americans, and these Caribbean African descended Hispanics are mixed.
In your failed attempt at being practical you never once consider that maybe many Africans who were involved in the trans-atlantic slave trade favored his complexion. It's just one skin tone out of many and I personally don't understand the obsession. You are working with probabilities that no one can measure. You are being hypothetical and demand that you be taken seriously. Why?
quote: Lmao Sun, are you describing your own feelings?
No, I'm describing the dangerous implications of your naivette in this instance.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata:
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:@Knowledge
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
I'm referring to what you posted already, both here and elsewhere, addressing the topic in question. Though this doesn't at all address my point about your ASSumption about Will Smith "probably" being "mixed" because he's "medium" brown, and that this "mixed" man, as a direct result of his admixture, likely resembled ancient Egyptians, who by extension of inference, resembled "mixed" people, such as Will SMith. All of this of course under the general ASSumption that Kushites do not look "mixed" and thus, should not be played by someone who is "probably" mixed.
Wow, a lot of distortion, I only posted two pictures on this page, what are you talking about elsewhere? Pictures which are/were from my first reply on this topic, on the other hand, you thought the pictures that were being posted were from me, no need to lie.
I never said as a direct result of Will Smith's admixture he would best suit to play Taharqa <<This is your distortion of what I said.
Again what I said was, since Will Smith is a lighter brown tone, he could best play for an Egyptian. Then I said Will Smith is most likely mixed-NOT DIRECT ADMIXTURE- being that he is an A.A and light skinned.
NEVER did I say since he was mixed he would play a better Egyptian <<<<Again this is your misinterpretation of what I said.
But enough with the misinterpretations of what YOU thought I meant, and stick to the facts. Simple as that.
Like I said
quote: Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Oh come on, let's not be silly. Again your applying your own logic.
No, yours, since you are emphasizing skin complexion. So-called "medium brown". I'm not aware of any other criteria you'd apply. Notwithstanding that your opinion is based on an unfounded premise.
quote: No, actually your argument is petty, because there is like 30 posts which agree with me, yet you're attacking me? Lol. And ones that agree with you are, hmmmm, TROLLS? Okay then.
Lmao @ who agrees with who as per argument from imaginary authority and as if to assume that I'm some type of hot headed newb {or alt} looking to make a "name" for myself. Facts stand that I'm not challenging any facts presented by YOU or anyone who so-called "agrees" with you (since you've presented none), but your subjective opinion and seemingly naive approach to African biohistory (at least in this thread).
quote:Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
I agree that no matter what you MEANT, you left open yourself for criticism due to your inartful wording. Feel free to clarify but looking for flaws or chalking it up to accusing others {rather condescendingly) of not comprehending you, only takes away from your credibility. Dig?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud, but your reactionary behavior indicates some deep seeded insecuriy issues.
quote: Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
quote: Talk about lack of comprehension. [Roll Eyes] I WAS referring to his comment while questioning why it is your responses to me lack so much class, as I wasn't the one who called you a fraud. Jeeze. I only question your judgment on this issue.
Sure you were.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote: Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me if you know what I mean but a good actor nontheless.
^^^Indeed I agree and was going to say the same thing, aren't Nubians portrayed as stereotypically "blacker" than Egyptians, while the Egyptians would have been around Will Smith's complexion? Besides Will is most likely mixed anyway. Being that he is an A.A. and lighter skinned. I can also say I'm happy about it, since Will Smith could actually pass for an Egyptian, they're basically showing Egyptians and Nubians to be the same to me. Which they were.
Albeit as Sundjata said, some Nubians being depicted as a lighter brown is true also.
^^^^Taharqa?
Anyway they're both African, meaning, Egyptians and Nubians, and that's what matters, just as long as in the movie they don't have Arabs playing Egyptians. Or say black Pharaohs conquered Ancient Egypt like the erroneous NatGeo magazine.
I am going to leave you right here, with my first post that you misinterpreted.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata:
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:@Knowledge
While you keep posting modern renditions of the blackest people, or "truest" Negros you can find on google images, I fail to see what they have to do with the ancient Kushite pharaoh that was Taharqa. Individuals vary and so do East Africans. To pigeon hold Nile valley Sudanese and ancient Kushites as conforming to one ideal morphotype is simply irresponsible. Period.
@Sundjata while you keep accusing me of doing things, that I am not doing, you should also go and get your eyes checked. I am not posting any pictures. You might want to read instead of making all of these ASSumptions. Lol
I'm referring to what you posted already, both here and elsewhere, addressing the topic in question. Though this doesn't at all address my point about your ASSumption about Will Smith "probably" being "mixed" because he's "medium" brown, and that this "mixed" man, as a direct result of his admixture, likely resembled ancient Egyptians, who by extension of inference, resembled "mixed" people, such as Will SMith. All of this of course under the general ASSumption that Kushites do not look "mixed" and thus, should not be played by someone who is "probably" mixed.
Wow, a lot of distortion, I only posted two pictures on this page, what are you talking about elsewhere? Pictures which are/were from my first reply on this topic, on the other hand, you thought the pictures that were being posted were from me, no need to lie.
I never said as a direct result of Will Smith's admixture he would best suit to play Taharqa <<This is your distortion of what I said.
Again what I said was, since Will Smith is a lighter brown tone, he could best play for an Egyptian. Then I said Will Smith is most likely mixed-NOT DIRECT ADMIXTURE- being that he is an A.A and light skinned.
NEVER did I say since he was mixed he would play a better Egyptian <<<<Again this is your misinterpretation of what I said.
But enough with the misinterpretations of what YOU thought I meant, and stick to the facts. Simple as that.
Like I said
quote: Let's leave it like this, you were confused into thinking I thought or believed in a "true Negro" by some resident trolls on this board, you fell for it, then you were also confused and thought I was saying Will Smith could play a better Egyptian because he is mixed, which was never said nor was ever my implication, but actually an ASSumption made by you. Agree?
A lot of this is going over your head and whether you cop-out without explaining yourself or not, I will further reply and lay off the implications since you don't even understand exactly what you said and how most will perceive it. More simply then I'll repost a question I had in objection to one of your claims on which your entire opinion is based.
since Will Smith is a lighter brown tone, he could best play for an Egyptian.
From my understanding, the evidence, based on greco-Roman testimony, extraction of melanin from mummified remains, tropical body plan [which by inference alludes to tropical adaptation and thus, dark skin], and an understanding of Egyptian stylistic convention in contrast to realism (as seen in the Armana period for example), seems to not support your above assertions of a "light brown" Egypt.
Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
Knowledgewhiskey/Mary got caught trying to sneak in updated "true negro" fantasises. Didn't take too long for the frauds to expose themselves. LOL
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
posted by sundjata
quote:seems to not support your above assertions of a "light brown" Egypt.
Again misinterpretations, I said light-er brown tone than a Nubian, not light brown. Are you saying Will Smith is light brown? Therefore him playing an Egyptian would make Egyptians light brown? There is dark and darker than, there is light and lighter than. Understand?
Example: Will Smith is a lighter brown tone than Wesley Snipes, now, this does not mean I am saying Will Smith is light brown.
^^^^By your logic you would take it as I was saying Will was light brown.
Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
^ LMAO @ whiskey trying to wiggle his way out of his s**t!
There is dark and darker than, there is light and lighter than.....blah blah blah...got caught stereotyping...blah blah blah Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by akoben: ^ LMAO @ whiskey trying to wiggle his way out of his s**t!
There is dark and darker than, there is light and lighter than.....blah blah blah...got caught stereotyping...blah blah blah
Lmaooooooooooo @ Sterotyping ? Explain yourself? Akoben/argyle. Arab/Euro?
Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
^ are you kidding me? your butt f**king of Mary is there for all to see. Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite...Indeed I agree!
LOLOLOL
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:The fact that you reduce yourself to name calling alludes to your frustration. I haven't yet accused you of being a fraud, but your reactionary behavior indicates some deep seeded insecuriy issues.
quote: Sundjata, see there is that miscomprehension again. I never called you a fraud, that was towards xxyman.
quote: Talk about lack of comprehension. [Roll Eyes] I WAS referring to his comment while questioning why it is your responses to me lack so much class, as I wasn't the one who called you a fraud. Jeeze. I only question your judgment on this issue.
Sure you were.
LOL. Are you serious? You're that obtuse? Ha! Way to save face on something so trivial. More pettyness from you?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: [QB] posted by sundjata
quote:seems to not support your above assertions of a "light brown" Egypt.
Again misinterpretations, I said light-er brown tone than a Nubian, not light brown. Are you saying Will Smith is light brown? Therefore him playing an Egyptian would make Egyptians light brown? There is dark and darker than, there is light and lighter than. Understand?
Semantics. I know exactly what you said. "lighter brown", "meduim brown", it's all obsfucation. It all boils down to Will Smith not being Black enough, or since he's "probably" mixed, not negro enough to play the Sudanese Taharqa, even though YOU don't even know what Taharqa's complexion was nor can explain effectively how Smith resembles Egyptians more so than Kushites, what the dichotomy between Egyptians and Kushites were [in evidence], and why the emphasis on skin color alone?
quote:Example: Will Smith is a lighter brown tone than Wesley Snipes
Umm, ok. So is this to correlate Will Smith to the AE and Snipes to the Kushites? If not, I'll take it as a random example of yours to support your point, which is trivial.
quote:^^^^By your logic you would take it as I was saying Will was light brown.
Such an interpretation is subjective. Harping on the nuance of how "dark" you think he is, is irrelevant. The comparisons and attributions are what's sloppy.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
Anyways, moving on.......
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
[/qb]
Nice back side.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:LOL. Are you serious? You're that obtuse? Ha! Way to save face on something so trivial. More pettyness from you?
Yea ok, sure like I said. You thought I was calling you a fraud, why else would you mention name calling and attacks towards you, which I never did? Which was actually towards xxyman and NOT you.
quote:Semantics. I know exactly what you said. "lighter brown", "meduim brown", it's all obsfucation. It all boils down to Will Smith not being Black enough, or since he's "probably" mixed, not negro enough to play the Sudanese Taharqa, even though YOU don't even know what Taharqa's complexion was nor can explain effectively how he resembles Egyptians more so than Kushites, what the dichotomy between Egyptians and Kushites were [in evidence], and why the emphasis on skin color alone?
Yea yea, stop with the nonsense. I never said Will Smith was not black enough or "negro" enough to play Taharqa. I said the most likely reason for his lighter brown skin tone, is likely due to past admixture being that he is an African American, through 300 years, his ancestors might have mixed. Again making it clear to you, I never said since he was mixed he would play a better Egyptian. I said that because of his lighter brown skin tone he would
quote:Umm, ok. So is this to correlate Will Smith to the AE and Snipes to the Kushites? If not, I'll take it as a random example of yours to support your point, which is trivial.
An example of how I meant it from the beginning Will Smith is a lighter brown than most depictions of the Nubians, whereas most depictions of Egyptians show a more brown-reddish hue, like Will, both Ancient Egyptians/Nubians are still African 100%.
quote: Such an interpretation is subjective. Harping on the nuance of how "dark" you think he is, is irrelevant. The comparisons and attributions are what's sloppy.
No, harping on the misinterpretations of what you thought I meant is nauseating.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Smith is the box office draw card. Let the movie succeed. Then see what else it spinsoff. It's not a documentary. More power to Will Smit!
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: ^ BS to you too. Ancient Egyptians generally looked like modern day Ethiopians
And I thought by now you would know that modern day Ethiopians vary in looks from the typical narrow features to broad features.
quote:Nubians looked like the stereotypical Black person. But thats the point - its a stereotype and not what Black people really look like - great diversity there.
'Nubians' are not a single group but consist of many ethnic entities that said, you can't stereotype any look about them!
correction -you mean different tribal groups not not ethnic, except the medja.the ones in the nile valley and those called hill nubians were one group but they were not called nubians in the past.the difference between a alwan and a kushite was tribal not ethnic.just like a bambara and mandinka.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Wow one thing just stuck me...LOL in the picture of the "Procession of the Kushites" from the tomb of Huy....The fourth Nubian from t the left doesn't have the "stereotypical features the Eurocentrics say the Nubians were depicted if im not mistaken the Artist shows that particular man with a pointy nose and little prothagism and with his brown skin he could easily pass as Egyptian.....This proves the closest ethnic group to Egyptians both modern and Ancient were the Nubians!!!
I wonder how that fourth man would look if he was facing us.REMEMBER EGYPTIAN ART IS BASCIALLY idealized.kushite art is less so and since we have descriptions of kushites and how they look i would bet that fourth kushite nose is really flat,but a flat nose from the side could look pointy from a side view even if it is not.
Posted by Nebsen (Member # 13728) on :
I have to agree with alTakruri, Will Smith has the box office power to pull of such a film. He is the golden boy of the moment.
I see passions are high concerning who, what complextion, should really play the part of Taharqa. Like I have stated before with the state of the art makeup it should not pose a problem for Will Smith, they could make him black as night if that is what they feel will help protray Taharaqa as more historically accurate.
What to my mind is way more important, is who would be the Egyptologist & historical consultant on the film . The person in this postion will help shape the director point of view, as well as the script writng, along with a hoast of other important elements, that will bring a vision to the screen of this great period in history !
I hope Will Smith is fully invested as the producer, to surround himself with the very best people, that can help bring his vision to the screen ; as well as finally portraying black people of Africa as complex human beings full of majesty as well as pathos.
I personally would like to see someone such as Molefi Kete Asante, Basil Davidson, Bruce Williams, or Theophile Obenga as the historical consultant. Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nebsen: I have to agree with alTakruri, Will Smith has the box office power to pull of such a film. He is the golden boy of the moment.
I see passions are high concerning who, what complextion, should really play the part of Taharqa. Like I have stated before with the state of the art makeup it should not pose a problem for Will Smith, they could make him black as night if that is what they feel will help protray Taharaqa as more historically accurate.
What to my mind is way more important, is who would be the Egyptologist & historical consultant on the film . The person in this postion will help shape the director point of view, as well as the script writng, along with a hoast of other important elements, that will bring a vision to the screen of this great period in history !
I hope Will Smith is fully invested as the producer, to surround himself with the very best people, that can help bring his vision to the screen ; as well as finally portraying black people of Africa as complex human beings full of majesty as well as pathos.
I personally would like to see someone such as Molefi Kete Asante, Basil Davidson, Bruce Williams, or Theophile Obenga as the historical consultant.
GOOD POINT.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
I wonder why Will didn't want to play Narmer/Menes? Why does he have to be the last pharaoh instead? This is something easily given to Will, since they(Euros) already consider Kush to be an indigenous black/African nation. If they were ready to admit Ancient Egypt's Africanism, they should have Will play Narmer to show the beginning of Ancient Egypt. This is also peculiar since they say this has been Will's dream for a long time to play Taharqa, but why Taharqa? Is it because this is the only Egyptian dynasty he knows to be black/African? I think so. Like I said before, pertaining towards the movie, I just hope they don't have Arabs playing the Egyptians.
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
I've been following pieces of this thread; Will Smith's hue is not an anomaly in the African variation. Reading about it apparently does no good, as many non-Africans tend to get rigid idealized, incomplete perceptions and false impressions of continental Africa born out of social conditioning from their media; here's an idea: stepping foot in Africa would not hamper the advancement of one's knowledge about the peoples there. Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Agreed. Without his money Will Smith will fit in perfectly with many of the brothers I see in the streets of Philly. Many of them see no issues with their variation in hue. They all consider themselves . . . black. Seems the only reason we have an issue with Will and his hue is because he is popular and has money.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Yep it would be good to see a film that is at least somewhat accurate about Egypt. But I am not holding my breath.
Either way, Will Smith is still no doubt a very light black man looking to play the figure of someone very dark. In fact I would say he is lighter than the average modern Upper Egyptian or Nubian, let alone ancient Egyptian. But be that as it may, this doesn't mean he shouldn't make the movie or even star in it. As an actor I am sure he could pull it off and I am sure that he and everyone else involved are aware of the fact that Sudanese are relatively very dark.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
I screwed up!
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Punt is where the Dynastic people claim to come from
^Meant to post a different photo I can't find - the above are ancient Egyptians and NOT Puntites.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Wow one thing just stuck me...LOL in the picture of the "Procession of the Kushites" from the tomb of Huy....The fourth Nubian from t the left doesn't have the "stereotypical features the Eurocentrics say the Nubians were depicted if im not mistaken the Artist shows that particular man with a pointy nose and little prothagism
Correct Jari.
In this depiction, the black skinned Egyptians (in white) and Southerners (in leopard spots) both have much less prognathism than some of their lighter skinned counterparts
Like other Africans to the South, Egyptians portrayed Puntites
(who were to the far South) in black, dark brown, red brown and even light/red- brown. There are pictures lighter than that even without the bad tint.
^Notice these Southerners that happen to be from the same place (Punt) Egyptians claim as their ancestral homeland wear white just like Egyptians.
Most Southerners wore spots, while Egyptians are in white. No matter what, Egyptians always seem to dress more like so-called 'Nubians' than anyone else (and they've even called upon them to save them from the 'dreaded Asiatic' rule). "Nubian" comes from a word that refers to gold and to a gold producing city of upper ancient Egypt anyway.
Again, a demonstration:
Now for Nehesy and Rmt (Egyptians) side by side in the top row of the same depiction:
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
Agree with Ausarian and Nebsen's above posts.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Umm, ok. So is this to correlate Will Smith to the AE and Snipes to the Kushites? If not, I'll take it as a random example of yours to support your point, which is trivial.
An example of how I meant it from the beginning Will Smith is a lighter brown than most depictions of the Nubians, whereas most depictions of Egyptians show a more brown-reddish hue, like Will, both Ancient Egyptians/Nubians are still African 100%.
@ Knowledge & @ Sundiata just so ya know: My point in posting the art as I did was to enphasize that the black/brown divisions were overrated, and that it therefore doesn't matter that Will is playing.
There are for sure people his color from Nigeria to Sudan and the Horn, and in Central Africa. Just as there are people Djimon Honsou's color in the back streets of Iraq.
Knowledge, the picture you posted, which is of [ulr=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gJDgFvcO9asN/340x.jpg]Paul Kagame[/url], is of a Central African.
The psychological skin-color apartheid-concept ideology nonchalantly propogated by Eurocentrism and those who passively accept it has no basis in either Kemetian iconography or literature or history.
(^Condensations - in each row, the first character is Egyptian, third is labeled Southerner)
Actual photo from the walls:
Four "Rmt" ['Egyptians']
Four "Nhsy" [Southerners]
Posted by SEEKING (Member # 10105) on :
DOUG, just on observation, I noticed that the images of WILL, which you have chosen, tend to be very light. I guess this was done to support your stance on him being too light? Well, how about these pictures??
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by SEEKING: DOUG, just on observation, I noticed that the images of WILL, which you have chosen, tend to be very light. I guess this was done to support your stance on him being too light? Well, how about these pictures??
niceeeee..... Posted by Jari-Ankhamun (Member # 14451) on :
Come on guys while the Debate is Entertaining lets just conclude that Will Smith IS much Lighter Skinned than how most people including me would picture an ancient Kushite and would fit an Egytian better. The Egyptians made it VERY clear of the diversity of ancient African populations which they included themselves apart of. The Egyptians also made it very CLEAR that the Average Kushite was darker than the Average Egyptian....Does this mean Will would'nt fit the role of Taraqo....NO.
Even in the picture you posted Knowldege with Will and Dijimon Hosuen at the Bottom...BOTH Actors match the Skin color of the Kushites.
The real question is Who will play the Queen of Taraqo...MMMMM????????????
I PRAY its Nia Long or BETTER YET Gabrielle Union... Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Black Africans come in VARIOUS shades of brown and that is the fact and nobody denies it. The point is again that Sudanese are among the DARKEST of Africans and therefore Will Smith is not necessarily the MOST REPRESENTATIVE of what an ancient Kushite would have looked like. For that matter he isn't REPRESENTATIVE of what all African Americans look like either. This goes to show that the black/brown dichotomy of Africa and the art of ancient Egypt is a reflection of the reality of the diversity of complexion among black populations, which goes back many thousands of years. Therefore, given that diversity and given that all Africans do not look the same, you cannot just claim that because an African is black that they are a perfect example of all African features because they aren't. But movies are about acting and of course even if Will Smith plays the role it is his acting that will make or break the movie more so than skin color. And like I said, such critiques of accuracy in historical flicks is nothing new. For example, why do so many movies on ancient Greece and Rome feature actors with distinct Scottish, Irish and British accents? Certainly the ancient Romans and Greeks were not Celtic.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: osirion wrote:
--------------------------- Indigenous people of Egypt? And who are these people that are pure indigenous people of Egypt? ---------------------------
You can injece "pure" as a strawman all that you want. I'll leave that for the posters that match your lower level of intellect.
>>>
The indigenous people of Egypt and the Sudanaese are who the ancient egyptians looked like. Not the Ethiopians that apparently you like to use to pleasure yourself.
-------------------------- Like Will Smith - idiot. --------------------------
I'm noticing that alot of these race loons tend to be these horny pathetic individuals who use "mixed" to further enhance their how shall we say it? Their self-pleasuring pleasure.
>>>
#1:
I did not inject pure it is implied by your statement. How can indigenous people not be pure indigenous people? I qualified your implication and nothing else.
-- What is stereotypical about Will Smith?
His phenotype is more typical of what is seen to be that of Black people. This is a stereotype since Blacks have very diverse features. To be specific, he has a low nasal root and a wide nasal index with tight curly hair.
No such thing as race. This forum is a place for people to give their opinions and in my opinion the AEs look most similar to Ethiopians of modern day and not the Arab influenced people that live in Egypt today. However, I have been to Egypt and there are certainly a good deal of people there that appear indigenous and do look like AEs; however, Ethiopians have experienced less foreign intrusion than Egypt and thus make a better example of what the Ancient East Africans looked like originally. However, I think your point about the Sudanese is exemplarary and I agree. Sudan is a better place to find people that are most similar to AE. I supposed I have never been to Sudan so I usually don't think of it. Also, Upper Egypt has a lot of poor farmers that still appear to look like AEs but then they also look alot like Ethiopians/Somalians as well. Not sure if the diet and climate is much different between AE and Ethiopia and so I expect the people to look the same. I will look further into the climatic and dietary differences between the people but I would imagine that they are roughly the same.
BTW - of course you are right but then I am not aware of the so called indigenous people of Egypt that have not mixed with non-Egyptians. How can we possibly know who is actually indigenous? I am just going based on statistical probability of mixture over time. So with that said - Sudan seems to be a more realistic place to look.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Agree with Ausarian and Nebsen's above posts.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Umm, ok. So is this to correlate Will Smith to the AE and Snipes to the Kushites? If not, I'll take it as a random example of yours to support your point, which is trivial.
An example of how I meant it from the beginning Will Smith is a lighter brown than most depictions of the Nubians, whereas most depictions of Egyptians show a more brown-reddish hue, like Will, both Ancient Egyptians/Nubians are still African 100%.
@ Knowledge & @ Sundiata just so ya know: My point in posting the art as I did was to enphasize that the black/brown divisions were overrated, and that it therefore doesn't matter that Will is playing.
There are for sure people his color from Nigeria to Sudan and the Horn, and in Central Africa. Just as there are people Djimon Honsou's color in the back streets of Iraq.
Knowledge, the picture you posted, which is of [ulr=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gJDgFvcO9asN/340x.jpg]Paul Kagame[/url], is of a Central African.
The psychological skin-color apartheid-concept ideology nonchalantly propogated by Eurocentrism and those who passively accept it has no basis in either Kemetian iconography or literature or history.
(^Condensations - in each row, the first character is Egyptian, third is labeled Southerner)
Actual photo from the walls:
Four "Rmt" ['Egyptians']
Four "Nhsy" [Southerners]
Thank you! Good post. Ausarian brought the point home as well that even as an outside observer, it is painfully obvious to me the misconceptions non-Africans hold about the continent while also never visiting there. Hence, some of the random picture spam that is overtly out of context. Such has more to do with the innate human disposition to discern and place exaggerated emphasis on nuance. Such simplifies what is otherwise more complex than they seek to approach it (there is much overlap as far as skin complexion and other features in NEAfrica). Simply, stating that a Black man (WIll Smith) isn't Black enough to play another Black man is almost a form of self-hating ignorance based on the propagation of Eurocentric conquer and divide strategy. They are unwillful puppets who play right into opposing hands.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Ignoring the ignorant and idiotic distractors of this thread...
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Yea that's why I asked, aren't the studies on East Africans only done on certain tribes in certain countries I.e, not all East Africans are 40% West Asian, Just like not all African Americans are 30% European.
First of all, those aren't "tribes" but ethnicities. Second, the Eurocentrics duplicitly only use the Abyssinian sample to represent the entire country of Ethiopia but are not crazy enough to say it reflects all of East Africa. It is actually Dienekes and his slave-boy Debunked that make this claim! LOL
quote:Originally posted by osirion: As for Ethiopians - whenever I see Egyptian Art I am reminded of them.
Don't know if I have seen depictions of Egyptians with such curves though:
I have!-- seen my share of ancient Egyptian women with curves!
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Smith is the box office draw card. Let the movie succeed. Then see what else it spinsoff. It's not a documentary. More power to Will Smith!
As I said before, I have nothing against Will Smith. He's a great actor. I didn't like his last movie, but I'm hoping his future movies will be alot better. But again, I'm glad Hollyweird actually picked a black actor at all and not some 'of-black' actor like Vin Diesel or the Rock.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by kenndo: correction -you mean different tribal groups not not ethnic, except the medja. The ones in the nile valley and those called hill nubians were one group but they were not called nubians in the past. The difference between a alwan and a kushite was tribal not ethnic. just like a bambara and mandinka.
Wait, hold up! To my knowledge the groups that the Egyptians described were ethnic. Tribal groups are divisions within each ethnicity. Of course Hill Nubians and Nile Nubians were only grouped together in recent times but such a grouping was based purely on linguistic reasons. The Nile Nubians and Hill Nubians are themselves comprised of different ethnic groups but all are classified together as 'Nubian' linguistically and culturally. The Bambara and the Mandinka are also not tribes but ethnic groups that comprise the larger Mande cultural group.
I think you are confusing the larger cultural group or family with 'ethnicity' and the actual ethnicity with 'tribe'.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
Man am I messing up on links and images:
Paul Kagame, Central African, lighter than many North Africans even in Tunisia but certainly not an outlier in sub-Saharan Africa.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Come on guys while the Debate is Entertaining lets just conclude that Will Smith IS much Lighter Skinned than how most people including me would picture an ancient Kushite and would fit an Egytian better.
^^Better stated.
Just like how it was written that ancient Northern Indians would fit better in the Northern part of the Nile Valley than in the Southern part.
quote:The Egyptians made it VERY clear of the diversity of ancient African populations which they included themselves apart of.
Yes, even though they were fierce rivals, they even vied for a Southern ruler to 'save them from the Asiatics'. One time Kushites even defeated Kemet and decided to let it be. (I'll link later).
quote:The Egyptians also made it very CLEAR that the Average Kushite was darker than the Average Egyptian....Does this mean Will would'nt fit the role of Taraqo....NO.
I don't know about 'very CLEAR' (pending textual evidence) but I will buy the "average" part and that last part.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Getting back to the topic, I believe it was neo*geo that started a thread before on which actors would be good picks for a movie about Kush and Egypt.
I recall two more good actors that could possibly suit the part:
Taye Diggs
Omar Epps Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Such has more to do with the innate human disposition to discern and place exaggerated emphasis on nuance. Such simplifies what is otherwise more complex than they seek to approach it (there is much overlap as far as skin complexion and other features in NEAfrica). Simply, stating that a Black man (WIll Smith) isn't Black enough to play another Black man is almost a form of self-hating ignorance based on the propagation of Eurocentric conquer and divide strategy. They are unwillful puppets who play right into opposing hands.
Truth, just a common human tendancy.
The colorism is totally and completely unnecissary.
I could understand if we were talking about the Greek Historians and their perspective on different folks though.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Are you just posting pics, do you know anything about acting and casting. Casting is very important part in making a movie sucessful. Stop posting pics of black people so you can pretend to side with Blacks. Diggs and Epps can't act to save their lives!! Taharqa is a RULER not another cute face. This is very important movie. Yes Will is good casting to play the General, so can Denzel, Sam Jackson (but too old-he carried Pulp Fiction not Travolta), Nigerian English dude etc.
This is someone you must love, fear and worship
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Getting back to the topic, I believe it was neo*geo that started a thread before on which actors would be good picks for a movie about Kush and Egypt.
I recall two more good actors that could possibly suit the part:
Taye Diggs
Omar Epps
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
Reading some of the lines in this thread has convinced me that Eurocentric brainwashing is *still* truely a force to be reckoned with!
Posted by akoben (Member # 15244) on :
Brainwashing like your belief in six millon Ashkenazi (your "Semitic" people LOL) holocaust? LOL
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by kenndo: correction -you mean different tribal groups not not ethnic, except the medja. The ones in the nile valley and those called hill nubians were one group but they were not called nubians in the past. The difference between a alwan and a kushite was tribal not ethnic. just like a bambara and mandinka.
Wait, hold up! To my knowledge the groups that the Egyptians described were ethnic. Tribal groups are divisions within each ethnicity. Of course Hill Nubians and Nile Nubians were only grouped together in recent times but such a grouping was based purely on linguistic reasons. The Nile Nubians and Hill Nubians are themselves comprised of different ethnic groups but all are classified together as 'Nubian' linguistically and culturally. The Bambara and the Mandinka are also not tribes but ethnic groups that comprise the larger Mande cultural group.
I think you are confusing the larger cultural group or family with 'ethnicity' and the actual ethnicity with 'tribe'.
I HAVE TO DISAGREE with you on that.MANDE IS A ETHNIC group with sub-groups like the bambara or mandinka.the cultures are closely related.
I AGREE WITH YOU that modern nubians did not call themselves nubians. scholars do not know yet the real name the kushites and noba for example were called but egyptians had names for them and the egyptians were really describing sub-groups or tribes not ethnic groups.Do not forget that the culture of the noba and kushites were basically the same.
The groups you are talking about that may be different ethnically were most likely the groups next to egypt and the medja.BUT ON AVERAGE THE GROUPS THAT LIVE NEXT TO EGYPT ON AVERAGE LOOK MORE LIKE EGYPTIANS BUT THEIR CULTURE WAS MORE RELATED TO THE KUSHITES AND EVEN MORE SO WHEN KUSH TOOK OVER THE NORTH.YOU COULD SAY THEY BECAME MORE KUSHIZED.
I believe that the population however belong to one ethnic group with sub-groups. THE MEDJA YOU COULD SAFELY say were a different ethnic group of what scholars today call nubian.african scholars do believe that noba group thta took over kush were basically the same ethnic group the kushites belong to but we do not know the real name of that ethnic group. the tribal or sub-groups of that ethnic group were kushites,alwans,certain groups in the nuba hills and other areas.i scholar i spoke to made it clear to me they were the same ethnic group. even if they were different from the start in the end they basically became the same.
Just like the greeks and macedonians.scholars go back in forth and do not give a clear answer if the greeks were different than the macedonians.but in the end the macedonians did in fact became greek.
I believe that the THE KUSHITES and hill nubians and the noba did come from the same places and had basically the same culture from the start.In fact SOME noba and kushites intermarried.other kushites died off or just left the nile valley.KUSHITE NUBIANS WERE THE SAME ETHNIC GROUP AS THE NOBA AND HILL NUBIANS.THE REAL NAME OF THE ETHNIC GROUP IS UNKNOWN BUT THE MEDJA NUBIANS WERE A DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUP.
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.
Mandé is an ethnic group of West Africa. Speakers of the Mande languages are found in Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Senegal, Mali, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Burkina Faso, Côte d'Ivoire and Northern Ghana. Linguistically, the Mande languages belong to a divergent branch of the Niger-Congo family. The Mande peoples are credited with the founding of the largest ancient West African empires. The Mandé are closely related to both West Atlantic-speakers (such as the Fulani and Wolof) and Nilo-Saharan -speakers (such as the Songhay), in terms of culture and ethnicity.
Some sources say that the Mandé are defined by culture and language rather than by ethnicity, since many different ethnic groups have adopted Mandé languages, names, and traditions.
NOW THE LATTER I DISAGREE WITH.THE FIRST SOURCE I AGREE.
THE MANDE IS A ETHNIC GROUP.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Culture and language are two factors that delineate an ethnic group.
Posted by Nebsen (Member # 13728) on :
For all those that want to support Will Smith in his role as Taharqa, he has a great website, so all can log on & leave him messages, & maybe tell him about Egyptsearch www.WillSmith.com
In the news on his site they tell us about his new role in "The Last Pharaoh" Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Culture and language are two factors that delineate an ethnic group.
I know, but what I refer to are the larger linguisto-cultural groups that consist of individual ethnic groups. Like for example, the Mande peoples consisting of ethnies like the Malinka and Bambara or (modern) Nubian peoples consisting of the Darba from the hills region and the Mahas from the Nile valley. A European example would be the Germanic peoples who consist of the Deutch (Germans proper) as well as the Danes.
A 'tribe' is a small socio-political division usually within a single ethnicity.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
yeah,i get your point to a point,but for modern ethnic nubians that the the larger linguisto-cultural group would be sudanic .
Same for the ancient nubians except the medja .
noba and kushites are basically one and belong to the same ethnic group.modern scholars called them nubians.egyptians had there own ethnic name for them.The NAME OF THESE sub-groups OF nubians for example were kushites and the noba and sub-groups in others areas in the sudan.sub-group would be a better term than tribe but both tribe and sub-group would be the same thing but i prefer the term sub-group.
For the mande the larger lingusto group would be mande.so it seems that it serves as both.it's a ethnic group with sub-groups within and a branch of niger-congo.every source i seem to read would say that mande is a ethnic group with subgroups within.
here is an example of the mande.notice below they use the term sub-group instead of tribe but we know it's the same thing.
------------------------ quote-
The group was first recognized in 1854 by Koelle in his Polyglotta Africana. He mentioned 13 languages under the heading North-Western High-Sudan Family, or Mandéga Family of Languages. In 1901 Maurice Delafosse made a distinction of two groups in his Essai de manuel pratique de la langue mandé ou mandingue. He speaks of a northern group mandé-tan and a southern group mandé-fu. This distinction was basically done only because the languages in the north use the expression tan for ten whereas the southern group use fu. In 1924 L. Tauxier notes that this distinction is not well founded and there is at least a third subgroup he called mandé-bu. It is not until 1950 when A. Prost supports this view and gives further details. In 1958 Welmers publishes an article The Mande Languages where he divides the languages into three subgroups - North-West, South and East. His conclusion was based on lexicostatistic research. Greenberg follows this distinction 1963 in The Languages of Africa. Long (1971) and G. Galtier (1980) follow the distinction into three groups but with notable differences. -------------------------------------- peace .
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
But I agree as well that Will and other African Americans should also be looking at portraying other Egyptian dynasties before the 25th as well.
All in all i would say that will CAN make or Break a movie. BUT he doesnt have to STAR in it. He could have directed it. I would also have been nice if it was spoken in a Nubian language - Think Apocalypto which was a GREAT movie that had how many super famous stars? ZERO!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Genes, peoples, and languages
L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
A classic example of gene replacement are Black Americans (not represented in the tree of Fig. 3, which includes only aboriginal people), who notoriously have a lighter skin color than Black Africans, their ancestors. This is especially true in the northern States. Genetic analysis shows that African Americans have on average 30% of their gene pool from European (White American) genes (28). This partial replacement took place over about 300 years of contact, and it is calculated that, if it was constant in time, there must have been about 3% of mixed unions per generation. Laws assured that the child of mixed parentage would be considered Black. Only individuals with a very low proportion of Black ancestry (or of skin color) would be able to “pass” as White. With gene flow continuing at that same rate, only about 30% of the original gene constitution would remain on average after 1,000 years since the beginning, and about 9% after 2,000 years (1).
And this helps you out how? This is the same person that many of the keyboard faux scholars have claimed to be biased and racist in his writings and studies.
See people this is what happens when you're not really a scholar, but you try to play one on the EgyptSearch. LOL
You wind up arguing by the so called authorities. They don't even use your own commonsense. They have to wait for the white man to tell them something and unless it is a threat to Ancient Egypt (which they need for their self-esteem), then whatever white boy roy says is true.
Does anybody believe that white boys are going to admit that African Americans have ancesters from North Africa and the rest of Africa?
Of course not North Africans are supposed to be white. Ironically if you look at history it didn't do the North Africans any good since a great many of them died in conflicts with the Europeans.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Explorateur wrote:
quote: Well it is a matter of precision; whatever the study might be, that percentage must obvioulsy only reflect the sample size of the tested parties.
As for Eurocentrists making a mole hill out of misreading some study, they do so, because they know next to nothing about how population genetics studies work, and never set foot in Ethiopia.
The fake scholars show their minimal intellect when they quote from them.
They've been wailing and moaning about Euros stealing E3B, renaming different genes, using bogus skull and bone measurments, using the word Afro-Asiatic (shortening Africa so that it is not even prominent in the word) when only 1 language is Asiatic, using bogus pseudoscientific terms such as c-soid, m-loid, n-groid.
And this foolish armchair scholar Knowledgeiskey718 thinks that he can just post a link to one of the very scientist that many of these same clowns claim is racist and we're all just supposed to buy it.
With this type of thinking its no wonder these people are fake armchair scholars.
These people could have ordered blood samples from who knows what 3rd party? Who knows if they are even conducting actual tests? They could just be printing out results from there printer for all anyone knows.
Its not like someone can put them in jail for dishonesty since no one is physically getting hurt.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
The point I was making in response to the last lines of the post immediately above my reply is that Mande is not an ethnic group whereas say Soninke Malinke etc., subsets of Mande speakers, are ethnic groups because though each one is a Mande language the cultures differ.
I don't agree with the definition of tribe you supplied. Tribe can refer to a large entity that is equivalent to a nation. The Fulani are a prime example of that as are the Zulu and Jews.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Culture and language are two factors that delineate an ethnic group.
I know, but what I refer to are the larger linguisto-cultural groups that consist of individual ethnic groups. Like for example, the Mande peoples consisting of ethnies like the Malinka and Bambara or (modern) Nubian peoples consisting of the Darba from the hills region and the Mahas from the Nile valley. A European example would be the Germanic peoples who consist of the Deutch (Germans proper) as well as the Danes.
A 'tribe' is a small socio-political division usually within a single ethnicity.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Explorateur wrote:
quote: Well it is a matter of precision; whatever the study might be, that percentage must obvioulsy only reflect the sample size of the tested parties.
As for Eurocentrists making a mole hill out of misreading some study, they do so, because they know next to nothing about how population genetics studies work, and never set foot in Ethiopia.
The fake scholars show their minimal intellect when they quote from them.
They've been wailing and moaning about Euros stealing E3B, renaming different genes, using bogus skull and bone measurments, using the word Afro-Asiatic (shortening Africa so that it is not even prominent in the word) when only 1 language is Asiatic, using bogus pseudoscientific terms such as c-soid, m-loid, n-groid.
And this foolish armchair scholar Knowledgeiskey718 thinks that he can just post a link to one of the very scientist that many of these same clowns claim is racist and we're all just supposed to buy it.
With this type of thinking its no wonder these people are fake armchair scholars.
These people could have ordered blood samples from who knows what 3rd party? Who knows if they are even conducting actual tests? They could just be printing out results from there printer for all anyone knows.
Its not like someone can put them in jail for dishonesty since no one is physically getting hurt.
Argyle funny, but how come you always respond to a question or anything for that matter, with your own question or opinion, instead of answer or a correction?
Do you have any idea of why Ethiopians and Somalis appear to lie inbetween West Africans and Non-Africans?
Meanwhile argyle you offer up absolutely nothing of relevance just your own insignificant opinion meanwhile, let's take a look at the 62% Ethiopian "Caucasian" claim as we can see below from Wilson Et al.
quote:"Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians, indicating that placement of these individuals in a 'Black' cluster would be an inaccurate reflection of the genetic structure." -- Wilson et al. 2001
Now we can see below in a reply to Charlie Bass from Wilson et al. What he really meant with his above quote.
quote:Dear Mr. Rigaud,
Thank you for your email. I am interested to know more about your project. What are its aims? Where are you reading Anthropology? Who is supervising you?
The link you provided is broken, but I presume it related to Table 2 of my paper where the proportion of Ethiopian ancestry lying in cluster A is given as 62%.
I am sure that the origin of non-Africans in East Africa is part of the reason for this finding, but it is also likely that more recent (within the last 20,000 years) gene flow across the Bab el Mandeb will contribute to this situation. The degree to which the 'mixed' ancestry is due to recent vs ancient mixing/separation could be estimated with series of genealogical genetic systems such as the Y chromosome, but not with lots of unlinked loci each of which gives very little gene genealogical information. Unfortunately we are not at that stage yet and there are still a large number of unsolved multifurcations even in the Y tree which pertain directly to this question. And the Y is only one genetic locus. There are also hints from mtDNA of course. It should eventually be able to take the lineages that we see in E Africa and dissect out those that are due to what I am calling recent (back-)migration (as they would descend from lineages originating outside Africa), we could probably identify those that provide evidence that E Africa is the homeland of non-Africans (those which are the closest in the gene tree to the non-African lineages, closer than all the other African lineages, and perhaps not found outside E Africa, or at least with much lower diversity) and finally the aboriginal African lineages which are found across Africa. As E Africa may also be the place where our species arose, there may also be a fourth type of lineage which would also be more diverse in East Africa, the deepest lineages of all, the first branches in the gene tree. This is an idealised situation and not all gene trees would show it but given enough of them we should begin to pick out whether this scenario or another represents our history.
It is a great shame that the human genome diversity panel does not include any samples from the horn of Africa, as we would probably then have seen the same pattern in Noah Rosenberg's Science paper using Structure. There are a number of areas around the world in which admixture has occurred in pre-Colombian times between indigenous populations, eg Island South East Asia and Central Asia, the Malagasy etc. Then of course the colonial legacy has left millions of much more recently admixed populations in the Americas and all over. But the horn of Africa and around is unique in that non-Africans descend from populations in this area. This is what makes this particular case of admixture very interesting.
I certainly did not intend to give anyone the impression that Ethipians were 62% "Caucasian" or somehow 'not black'. The entire point of the paper is to show that labels such as Caucasian and black do not reflect the underlying genetics very well and it is the underlying genetic structure that matters for things like drug response and disease susceptibility.
I hope this clarifies things for you. Don't hesitate to get in touch if I can be of further assistance. All best wishes, Jim
Charles Rigaud wrote:
> Hello Dr. Wilson, my name is Charles Rigaud and I'm an > anthropology student. I have some questions pertaining > to one of your genetic studies, "Population genetic > structure of variable drug response"(Nature Genetics > 29, 265 - 269 (2001). Based on this chart published in > your study > http/img393.imageshack.us/img393/4908/ng761t27rx.gif , > were you giving readers the impression that Ethiopians > were 62% "Caucasian" or cluster with Caucasians[hence > not black]? Its well known from published studies that > non-Africans descend genetically from a subset of > Northeast Africans, could this be a reason for > Ethiopians having 62% of the cluster? I ask your > assistance and clarification on this issue. Thanks in > advance. > > > Best regards, > > > Charles Rigaud > > >
So basically as we already knew Ethiopians and Somalis lying inbetween West Africans and Non-Africans, it's NOT saying they're "Caucasian" but rather it's in reference to OOA in which all non-Africans descend from a small sub-set of East Africans. Because when we look at the Y and Mtdna of East Africans they have little to no West Asian uniparental haps, and this is how you genetically trace ancestry as noted below.
quote: The degree to which the 'mixed' ancestry is due to recent vs ancient mixing/separation could be estimated with series of genealogical genetic systems such as the Y chromosome, but not with lots of unlinked loci each of which gives very little gene genealogical information.--Wilson et al
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Do you have any idea of why Ethiopians and Somalis appear to lie inbetween West Africans and Non-Africans?
I don't give a damn about your race obsessed dichotomy of Africans. If you want to fantasize about "West Africans" and Ethiopians and Somalis that's your problem and a sad reflection about how your pathetic mind works.
People, ask yourself doesn't what he wrote remind you of all of the braindead dullards that you find on the amateur race loon sites? : )
Also, notice how people of Knowledgeiskey718's ilk act as Africa is only "West Africans" and Ethiopians and Somalis. No north Africans, no southern Africans. But again the boy gets his talking points from white scientists who want to claim 95% of Africa is theirs, so why expect better from this boy?
This guy seems to be sick in the head.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Actually, rather than pleading for sympathy from us you need to address what he posted. Seems to me the one making phony distinctions is you. Why are you calling out Southern Africans, Northern Africans or other Africans as distinct? Why are YOU bringing up East Africans and West Africans as distinct?
Again your are proving to be nothing but a troll and unable to address anything substantial as opposed to baiting and switching when confronted with the facts. Therefore, instead of addressing the facts you move the goalposts onto another topic.
The fact is that there is variation among black Africans and has ALWAYS been. It is not the AFRICANS fault that FOREIGNERS are the one who keep twisting this fact to suit their own agendas.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Doug M wrote:
quote: Actually, rather than pleading for sympathy from us you need to address what he posted. Seems to me the one making phony distinctions is you. Why are you calling out Southern Africans, Northern Africans or other Africans as distinct? Why are YOU bringing up East Africans and West Africans as distinct?
Again your are proving to be nothing but a troll and unable to address anything substantial as opposed to baiting and switching when confronted with the facts. Therefore, instead of addressing the facts you move the goalposts onto another topic.
The fact is that there is variation among black Africans and has ALWAYS been. It is not the AFRICANS fault that FOREIGNERS are the one who keep twisting this fact to suit their own agendas.
Can anyone tell me what on earth this boy is talking about? Are you a man or a woman? It's about time someone says this. Your posts are like a woman who's reached that time of the month. LOL!
Look take this 5 and go to the corner store and by some Kotex so you'll calm down and stop hallucinating like a crack addict on 7th Ave.
Outside of stealing pictures from people on Flickr your posts have absolutely no value. Hell you even contradict yourself half the time when you do post those stolen pictures.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Doug M wrote:
quote: The fact is that there is variation among black Africans and has ALWAYS been. It is not the AFRICANS fault that FOREIGNERS are the one who keep twisting this fact to suit their own agendas.
Folks do you believe this?
This supposedly grown man ass has been posting like a PMS female throughout this thread bitching and moaning about the skin complexions of other Africans incl. diaspora. So now he's trying to project his sickness onto someone else.
This boy has been hitting the pipe early this weekend. : )
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
As usual, when in doubt, engage in trolling....
Poor Argyle loses his little game of trifles and now resorts to throwing hissy fits in order to get some attention.
Hey Argyle, why don't you start sputtering, gurgling, murmering and spitting like you usually do?
Poor thing.
LOL!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Indeed, gArgoyle is just a moronic troll who makes no contributions to this forum whatsoever and only insults or criticizes posters for some imagined transgression. Knowledge, just wasted his time responding to the fool when Rasol explained to him (chumped him) before that just because we cite a scholar whom we criticize does equate to hyporcisy. Scholarship is not a matter of a scholar being entirely right or entirely wrong. Just because Sforza was wrong on certain things does not mean he's wrong all the time. But the dumb gArgoyle can't get that into his damaged brain.
quote:Originally posted by kenndo: yeah, i get your point to a point, but for modern ethnic nubians that the larger linguisto-cultural group would be sudanic.
Well specifically, the Nubian languages make up Eastern Sudanic while other non-Nubian languages farther west from the Nuba Hills onward make up Western Sudanic. Both of which make up the Chari-Nile branch of Nilo-Saharan.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: The point I was making in response to the last lines of the post immediately above my reply is that Mande is not an ethnic group whereas say Soninke Malinke etc., subsets of Mande speakers, are ethnic groups because though each one is a Mande language the cultures differ.
Which is what I said.
quote:I don't agree with the definition of tribe you supplied. Tribe can refer to a large entity that is equivalent to a nation. The Fulani are a prime example of that as are the Zulu and Jews.
Well wouldn't the larger socio-political divisions you just described be called 'nations' then?
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
The Zulu tribe is the Zulu nation. The 12 Tribes of Israel had three nations. The Fulani tribe had how many empires?
The definition of tribe has nothing to do with size or sophistication.
"A 'tribe' is" NOT "a small socio-political division usually within a single ethnicity."
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
right mande is not really a ethnic group,some mande however have more closely related cultures or basically the same cultures or civilization i think more so than other mande groups.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
More North East African features in Egypt:
(as you can see hooked noses ain't foreign to Africa)
Obvious relationship of these people to Ethiopians (other North East Africans):
What are trying to suggest or say Doug with your picture theft? I'm sure that is what everyone wants to know.
Just be a man and say it.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Well ancient Egyptian art belongs to the ancient Egyptians. What do they say about THAT theft?
Africans were stole from Africa to create wealth for Europeans. What about that theft?
Native American lands and lives were stolen to create the empire of the U.S. What about that theft?
Any more questions?
Either way, I never represent these photos as my own they are all publicly posted at FLICKR.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
So the above rant is why you're picture spamming pictures from who really knows where?
What is that saying again?
mmmm........mmmm........mmmm
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: I never said Will Smith was not black enough or "negro" enough to play Taharqa. I said the most likely reason for his lighter brown skin tone, is likely due to past admixture being that he is an African American, through 300 years, his ancestors might have mixed.
Are you saying that Africans do not have variations in skin complexions?
Is that what you are saying above?
Will Smith is an African American. Will Smith's ancestors come from Africa.
You seem to be saying that Will Smith's skin color does not come from Africa where his ancestors come from. Which anyone using logical reasoning, comes to the conclusion that you think Africans do not vary in skin color.
Again I repeat is that what you are saying?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: I never said Will Smith was not black enough or "negro" enough to play Taharqa. I said the most likely reason for his lighter brown skin tone, is likely due to past admixture being that he is an African American, through 300 years, his ancestors might have mixed.
Are you saying that Africans do not have variations in skin complexions?
Is that what you are saying above?
Will Smith is an African American. Will Smith's ancestors come from Africa.
You seem to be saying that Will Smith's skin color does not come from Africa where his ancestors come from. Which anyone using logical reasoning, comes to the conclusion that you think Africans do not vary in skin color.
Again I repeat is that what you are saying?
Nope, not at all troll. If you came to that conclusion, you might want to check back into the 3rd grade.
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:LOL. Are you serious? You're that obtuse? Ha! Way to save face on something so trivial. More pettyness from you?
Yea ok, sure like I said. You thought I was calling you a fraud, why else would you mention name calling and attacks towards you, which I never did? Which was actually towards xxyman and NOT you.
quote:Semantics. I know exactly what you said. "lighter brown", "meduim brown", it's all obsfucation. It all boils down to Will Smith not being Black enough, or since he's "probably" mixed, not negro enough to play the Sudanese Taharqa, even though YOU don't even know what Taharqa's complexion was nor can explain effectively how he resembles Egyptians more so than Kushites, what the dichotomy between Egyptians and Kushites were [in evidence], and why the emphasis on skin color alone?
Yea yea, stop with the nonsense. I never said Will Smith was not black enough or "negro" enough to play Taharqa. I said the most likely reason for his lighter brown skin tone, is likely due to past admixture being that he is an African American, through 300 years, his ancestors might have mixed. Again making it clear to you, I never said since he was mixed he would play a better Egyptian. I said that because of his lighter brown skin tone he would
quote:Umm, ok. So is this to correlate Will Smith to the AE and Snipes to the Kushites? If not, I'll take it as a random example of yours to support your point, which is trivial.
An example of how I meant it from the beginning Will Smith is a lighter brown than most depictions of the Nubians, whereas most depictions of Egyptians show a more brown-reddish hue, like Will, both Ancient Egyptians/Nubians are still African 100%.
quote: Such an interpretation is subjective. Harping on the nuance of how "dark" you think he is, is irrelevant. The comparisons and attributions are what's sloppy.
No, harping on the misinterpretations of what you thought I meant is nauseating.
Well since Will Smith is an African American and his ancestors come from Africa, why did you say the following?
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote: ------------------------------- I said the most likely reason for his lighter brown skin tone, is likely due to past admixture -------------------------------
You are saying that so called "lighter brown skin" is not native to Africans and thus has to come from Europeans.
Why do you believe that so called "lighter brown skin" is not native to Africa?
Why would a man whose ancestors come from Africa get his so called "lighter brown skin" from Europeans and not Africans?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718,
You are free to answer the above questions anytime. Please refrain from making desperate strawman arguments about trolling in order to attempt a dodge of the questions that were asked above.
I'll post them again so that you won't forget.
See them below.
Are you saying that Africans do not have variations in skin complexions?
Why do you believe that so called "lighter brown skin" is not native to Africa?
Why would a man whose ancestors come from Africa get his so called "lighter brown skin" from Europeans and not Africans?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote: You are saying that so called "lighter brown skin" is not native to Africans and thus has to come from Europeans.
Why do you believe that so called "lighter brown skin" is not native to Africa?
Why would a man whose ancestors come from Africa get his so called "lighter brown skin" from Europeans and not Africans?
You're argument is a strawman, sounds like this dumb Euro-centric who argues since the San bushman are lightksin that how come people who look like this can't be indigenous.
Anyway, I never said Indigenous Africans don't vary in shades, this is your lying and trying to start strawman arguments. But what more can we expect from you?
Will Smith is about the complexion of Indigenous Africans such as the San Bushman some Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti. Are you saying his ancestors are from there?
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Silly Argyle does not understand English or the fact that he is contradicting himself. If Africans vary in features and complexions across Africa and the rest of the diaspora, then no two groups of Africans are exactly the same. Therefore, no one African has the exact same features of any member of other African group. So if Mr. Argyle believes in this diversity of African features, it is contradictory for him to pretend that Will Smith is not part of this diversity and therefore not reflective of the features of ALL Africans.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Doug M wrote:
------------------------------- Silly Argyle does not understand English or the fact that he is contradicting himself. If Africans vary in features and complexions across Africa and the rest of the diaspora, then no two groups of Africans are exactly the same. Therefore, no one African has the exact same features of any member of other African group. So if Mr. Argyle believes in this diversity of African features, it is contradictory for him to pretend that Will Smith is not part of this diversity and therefore not reflective of the features of ALL Africans. -------------------------------
Folks, what is this boy talking about? Your posts are the same as if you're talking to yourself. Anyone reading this thread sees it also.
People, this she-male is just rambling on and on like her boyfriend Hector just left her for a gal named Rhonda. Its like he/she believes that if he talks and says anything out loud, Hector will hear it and come scurrying back.
And this is going to be your new name Doug......
She-male Jenkins
bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Will Smith is about the complexion of Indigenous Africans such as the San Bushman some Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti.
Two questions that come to mind.
1. You actually believe that the San, Ethiopians, Somalis, Tutsis are the only Africans who have the so called "light brown skin"?
2. You believe that no other Africans have that skin color?
People doesn't this sound like Coon, Howell, Blumenbach?
PS. Has anyone else noticed how Knowledgeiskey718 never answers questions when asked? He's just like that Debunker character.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Will Smith is about the complexion of Indigenous Africans such as the San Bushman some Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti. Are you saying his ancestors are from there?
Of course, African Americans ancestors span the continent of Africa.
1. Why would the San Bushman, Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti not be brought over here?
2. Do you have evidence that indicates they were not?
3. Do you believe that the people who you just posted would not have been brought over here?
We are waiting for your answers Knowledgeiskey718.
Folks, this is getting real interesting. I'm about to expose him for what he is.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: So the above rant is why you're picture spamming pictures from who really knows where?
What is that saying again?
mmmm........mmmm........mmmm
Trying to help you see the resemblance of Ethiopians and Egyptians which goes back to my point.
AE art reminds me of modern day Ethiopians. It also reminds me of poor famers of Upper Egypt. Never been to the Sudan though...Do you know if I can get a visa and is there a significant threat?
I wouldn't mind going to Meroe.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
osirion wrote:
----------------------------------- Trying to help you see the resemblance of Ethiopians and Egyptians which goes back to my point. -----------------------------------
Which I will repeat is still your fantasy. Considering that the Sudanese and the indigenous Egyptians and some diaspora are the descendants of the Ancient Egyptians.
PS. Those Ethiopian girls you posted look like AAs.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Its funny because I've seen it written by an Ethiopian that Will Smith looks habesha (whatever that is).
I have also seen Eritreans say the same about Robert Horry the basketball player.
I've seen South Africans write that Dr. Dre looks like he's from South Africa.
And I've seen Northern Sudanese say that Bill Cosby looks like he's from Northern or Central Sudan.
I guess its that African ancestry.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Will Smith is about the complexion of Indigenous Africans such as the San Bushman some Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti. Are you saying his ancestors are from there?
Of course, African Americans ancestors span the continent of Africa.
1. Why would the San Bushman, Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti not be brought over here?
2. Do you have evidence that indicates they were not?
3. Do you believe that the people who you just posted would not have been brought over here?
We are waiting for your answers Knowledgeiskey718.
Folks, this is getting real interesting. I'm about to expose him for what he is.
Do you have any proof that they were? Let me know. Lmao @ exposing me for what I am, you're always being exposed, owned and virtually bitch slapped by everyone, is that why you're so mad?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
--------------------------------- Do you have any proof that they were? Let me know. ---------------------------------
Isn't it quite noticeable how this guy never answers any questions that are asked.
This guy is cut from the same mold as Debunker. : )
jwsr.ucr.edu/archive/vol5/number1/v5n1r1.php (east african slaves in new york)
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ ROTFL
Looks like gArgoyle forgot to take his medicine today and thus his psychosis is worse!
First of all this discussion about Will Smith is not even that serious. Of course Africans vary in features in complexions but the point is African Americans largely derive from populations that are usually darker than his complexion meaning that Will Smith probably and likely has mixed-ancestry. That said modern-day African Americans and ancient Kushites are two different peoples. Regardless this is a Hollywood movie so frankly I don't give a damn!
And lastly what is this bad attitude about the anthropological findings that Knowledge, Doug, and others have presented. If I didn't know any better, gArgoygle, I'd say you are unnerved but such findings. You say Doug sounds like a woman with PMS when the only one around here who sounds like that is YOU! Worse yet, your crazy ass sounds like a woman with post-partum distress disorder!--With all the negative emotional attacks and irrational behavior! LOL But speaking of PMS, knowing you and your boyfriends, you might need a tampon for your ass after the "rough" time you probably had! Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:1. You actually believe that the San, Ethiopians, Somalis, Tutsis are the only Africans who have the so called "light brown skin"?
2. You believe that no other Africans have that skin color?
Never said that you dumb ignorant troll. Now, can you prove that the African people I mentioned were brought to the Americas? Can you also name these below people which ethnicity which part of Africa?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote:
----------------------------- First of all this discussion about Will Smith is not even that serious. Of course Africans vary in features in complexions but the point is African Americans largely derive from populations that are usually darker than his complexion meaning that Will Smith probably and likely has mixed-ancestry. -----------------------------
How do you know? Is it some racialist fantasy of yours? Will Smith got his skin color from Africans. You can't accept that because you believe in true negroes and to you:
1. true negroes don't have smith's color 2. Africans that were not true negroes could not have been enslaved
That is absolutely sick.
Is this why you don't consider yourself black?
Because in your subhuman sick mind only black sub-saharan negroes are/slaves. Therefore certain Africans and certainly non-Africans were not slaves?
You need some serious help. This is the same philipeeeno guy that had hard-ons for certain East Africans so I'm not surprised.
Why don't you act like a man and just admit that you believe in a racial hierarchy. You believe in negroids therefore your posts should not be surprising. Thus the reason why you're engaged in pseudohistory and pseudoscience.
jwsr.ucr.edu/archive/vol5/number1/v5n1r1.php (east african slaves in new york)
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
----------------------------- Now, can you prove that the African people I mentioned were brought to the Americas? Can you also name these below people which ethnicity which part of Africa? -----------------------------
Apparently you believe in the Eurocentric model of anthropology, genetics, and history. Which is why you are pushing this true negro belief off on everyone else.
People notice how he keeps posting mugshots of people and trying to keep non-true negro Africans out of slavery despite the historical evidence of that not being the case. This guy has problems that are deeply rooted in his belief in the Eurocentric model of science and history.
By the way here is some scholarship for you. Notice how I can answer questions rather than dodge like Knowledgeiskey718 does.
jwsr.ucr.edu/archive/vol5/number1/v5n1r1.php (east african slaves in new york)
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote: Because in your subhuman sick mind only black sub-saharan negroes are/slaves. Therefore certain Africans and certainly non-Africans were not slaves?
Argyle everyone knows Europeans were the first slaves and the ones enslaved the longest, you can find out about your European ancestors and slavery here.
Interesting that Knowledgeiskey718 still avoids providing answers to questions asked. He keeps dodging in a desperate attempt to make us forget that he doesn't feel comfortable answering because he knows his European inspired racism will be obvious.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Argyle everyone knows Europeans were the first slaves and the ones enslaved the longest, you can find out about your European ancestors and slavery here.
Of course! What many ignoramuses like him fail to realize is that the very word 'slave' comes from Slav as in the Slavic peoples of Europe who were the European populations most widely enslaved during Medieval times not only in the Islamic world but also by their Western European bretheren!
And unfortunately in gArgoyle's case, he is still a slave-- to his insanity as well as to his ignorance! Need I go on?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Notice how I can answer questions rather than dodge like Knowledgeiskey718 does.
Where in your deluded mind do you answer questions? Lol you never answer questions, rather you just ask questions in return thinking that's somehow an answer. Lol
Can you also name these below people which ethnicity which part of Africa?
[/QB][/QUOTE]
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Interesting that Knowledgeiskey718 still avoids providing answers to questions asked. He keeps dodging in a desperate attempt to make us forget that he doesn't feel comfortable answering because he knows his European inspired racism will be obvious.
Your questions have been answered.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Knowledge, please do not chase the moronic gargoyle around over a few select pictures of a few individuals-- as if they somehow represent the population! We did that with other idiotic trolls like Debunked in the past and it useless.
Picture spamming is bad enough, but you know when trolls never answer valid questions the argument should never begin in the first place.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote: ------------------------------ Of course! What many ignoramuses like him fail to realize is the very word 'slave' comes from Slav as in the Slavic peoples of Europe who were the European populations most widely enslaved during Medieval times not only in the Islamic world but also by their Western European bretheren! ------------------------------
Notice this strawman. Where have I said that whites were not slaves? Is it from this quote below on page 1.
argyle104 wrote: ------------------------------------- Perhaps Knowledgeiskey718 can explain why he has such a pathological hatred for people that he considers true negroes.
The fact that there is historical factual evidence that people from England to Germany to Turkey to Iran to West Asians (the so called Middle East) to Indians (India) to non-"True Negro"(his term people not mine) Africans were shipped all across the globe including the Americas as slaves from the 1400s to early 1900s. Yet he engages in historical apartheid in much the same manner as some amateur from one of the race loon forums, speaks volumes of a mentality that has gone horribly astray. -------------------------------------
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote: --------------------------------- Can you also name these below people which ethnicity which part of Africa? ---------------------------------
This clown is trying to distract by posting a picture of a wedding some freelance photographer took in Nigeria (for the BBC) who never said what ethnic group the "woman" belonged to or what country the "woman" came from.
It's pitiful that you are wasting our time with these 3rd grade distraction attempts. And you try to call yourself a scholar. LOL!
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:The fact that there is historical factual evidence that people from England to Germany to Turkey to Iran to West Asians (the so called Middle East) to Indians (India) to non-"True Negro"(his term people not mine) Africans were shipped all across the globe including the Americas as slaves from the 1400s to early 1900s. Yet he engages in historical apartheid in much the same manner as some amateur from one of the race loon forums, speaks volumes of a mentality that has gone horribly astray.
I am glad you understand your Europeans ancestors place in history of slavery. Btw I never ever used or applied the term "true-negro" to anyone.
quote: This clown is trying to distract by posting a picture of a wedding some photographer took in Nigeria who never said what ethnic group the "woman" belonged to or what country she came from.
Lmaoooo @ you looking for the answer. Did you think I'd post a pic were you can read the answer from the link? They're Igbos you nitwit.
^^^Where does this lady come from?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
---------------------------------- I am glad you understand your Europeans ancestors place in history of slavery. Btw I never ever used or applied the term "true-negro" to anyone. ----------------------------------
This guy is still desperately avoiding questions asked of him. This guy is a faux scholar, in the same mold as Dienkes. LOL : )
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
All of your insignificant questions have been answered. You're accusing me of saying things I never said, therefore you're just an idiot, with nothing better to do
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Will Smith is about the complexion of Indigenous Africans such as the San Bushman some Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti. Are you saying his ancestors are from there?
Of course, African Americans ancestors span the continent of Africa.
1. Why would the San Bushman, Ethiopians Somalis, Tusti not be brought over here?
2. Do you have evidence that indicates they were not?
3. Do you believe that the people who you just posted would not have been brought over here?
We are waiting for your answers Knowledgeiskey718.
Folks, this is getting real interesting. I'm about to expose him for what he is.
Do you have any proof that they were? Let me know. Lmao @ exposing me for what I am, you're always being exposed, owned and virtually bitch slapped by everyone, is that why you're so mad?
quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718:
quote:1. You actually believe that the San, Ethiopians, Somalis, Tutsis are the only Africans who have the so called "light brown skin"?
2. You believe that no other Africans have that skin color?
Never said that you dumb ignorant troll. Now, can you prove that the African people I mentioned were brought to the Americas? Can you also name these below people which ethnicity which part of Africa?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote: ------------------------------------ Lmaoooo @ you looking for the answer. Did you think I'd post a pic were you can read the answer from the link? They're Igbos you nitwit. ------------------------------------
The caption on the BBC said Igbo Wedding it never said the bride was Igbo.
But let's just humor you and say that she is an Igbo. Since according to you, people her color would not have been brought over here. Do you believe that the bride would not have been brought over here on a slave ship?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote: But let's just humor you and say that she is an Igbo. Since according to you people her color would not have been brought over here. Do you believe that the bride would not have been brought over here on a slave ship?
That was the point of my post, Igbos were brought to the Americas, some can be lightskinned as shown, so if you're going to make your strawman argument it would be best to use them. I guess you're going to explain all lightskin African Americans through the Igbos?. Since you can't prove the rest of the people I mentioned were brought to the Americas.
Most of Africans brought to the Americas came from the Gold Coast, Nigeria, and Dahomey, or the region known as the area of Guineas, the Slave Coast. However, the vast majority came from the Yorubas and Igbo ethnic groups from Nigeria and the Bantus from the Guineas.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote: --------------------------------- That was the point of my post, Igbos were brought to the Americas, some can be lightskinned as shown, so if you're going to make your strawman argument it would be best to use them. Since you can't prove the rest of the people I mentioned were brought to the Americas. ---------------------------------
So then why are you so desperate for Will Smith to be mixed?
Afterall if they will take someone like the bride in that picture on a slave ship, there is no basis for you to keep assuming that Will Smith got his skin color from a European instead of an African like that bride.
And why are you so desperate to keep North Africans, Ethiopians, Somalis, and Southern Africans out of slavery?
Afterall if they will take someone like the bride in that picture on a slave ship, they certainly took Egyptians, Ethiopians, South Africans, Somalis and other north, east, and southern Africans to the Americas on slave ships.
The proof in the form of historical evidence is below. Your fantasy of non-true negro Africans not being enslaved has just been shot down in flames.
LOL! People don't you just love how I setup the trap so that the faux keyboard scholar proved my point? LOL
jwsr.ucr.edu/archive/vol5/number1/v5n1r1.php (east african slaves in new york)
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Most of Africans brought to the Americas came from the Gold Coast, Nigeria, and Dahomey, or the region known as the area of Guineas, the Slave Coast. However, the vast majority came from the Yorubas and Igbo ethnic groups from Nigeria and the Bantus from the Guineas.
People look how sick this guy is. He keeps fantasizing through wishful thinking that 3 or 4 West African countries are slave depots despite the historical evidence from historians that contradicts his insane beliefs.
This guy has an insidious hatred of people that he considers true negroes. This boy needs help bad.
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Most of Africans brought to the Americas came from the Gold Coast, Nigeria, and Dahomey, or the region known as the area of Guineas, the Slave Coast. However, the vast majority came from the Yorubas and Igbo ethnic groups from Nigeria and the Bantus from the Guineas.
People look how sick this guy is. He keeps fantasizing through wishful thinking that 3 or 4 West African countries are slave depots despite the historical evidence from historians that contradicts his insane beliefs.
This guy has an insidious hatred of people that he considers true negroes. This boy needs help bad.
Lmao, wow. Yea I have a hatred for my own people, my own ancestors. Again never did I post or say anything about a "true Negro".
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Knowledge, disregard the blatant false accusations the moron makes. He's just bitter with his own bile. (perhaps an organ got punctured from the shagging he got from one of his boyfriends)
quote:idiotic gArgoyle 699 wrote: So then why are you so desperate for Will Smith to be mixed?
No one is desperate but YOU. (perhaps you haven't been getting any from your boyfriends).
The point is usually African Americans with complexions like Will Smith are the result of some mixed ancestry. There is nothing racist about it. It's just a basic fact.
^ The black journalist above may not look it at all because of her dark complexion and other features but her great great grandfather was a white man. And white male ancestry is not an uncommon thing due to slavery.
Perhaps you can see the program African American Lives to find out more. But of course you won't because you are not interested in any facts.
All you want to do is make ad-hominem attacks at other posters and whine and moan like the little b*tch that you are.
Not our problem. Posted by Tyrann0saurus (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Knowledge, disregard the blatant false accusations the moron makes. He's just bitter with his own bile. (perhaps an organ got punctured from the shagging he got from one of his boyfriends)
Can people just stop it with the homophobic insults? I know akoben is an unpleasant troll who needs to banned, but this gay-bashing is no better than his Jewphobia.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote:
------------------------------- Perhaps you can see the program African American Lives to find out more. But of course you won't because you are not interested in any facts. -------------------------------
Poor dumb philopeeeeno.
Its already been established that those test are bogus. Sort of like Henry Louis Gates was supposed to be 50% white. hahahahahahahahaha
To note, it's interesting how whites always try to claim any African American that is successful, good looking, or anything else positive. Its no different than what they do with Africa. Which is not surprising that they are performing those bogus test on African Americans. It boosts their self-esteem.
I'll be willing to bet they didn't even run the tests. They probably just went to their computer and just printed off their lies. : )
Its funny that you never hear about them claiming African Americans that are in prison. LOL
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote: ------------------ ^ The black journalist above may not look it at all because of her dark complexion and other features but her great great grandfather was a white man. And white male ancestry is not an uncommon thing due to slavery.
Perhaps you can see the program African American Lives to find out more. But of course you won't because you are not interested in any facts.
All you want to do is make ad-hominem attacks at other posters and whine and moan like the little b*tch that you are.
Not our problem. ------------------
Anyone notice that the dirty phillopeeeno has an unhealthy need for African Americans to be mixed with non-Africans?
How sick. You don't see AAs fantasizing or having a need for philopeeeenos to be mixed.
The reason is because AAs have no desire to claim the Phillopeeeenes since it is a worthless dump. So they don't need to make up race fantasies and hierarchies.
This Djehuti character needs for African Americans to be mixed so that he can keep them out of certain areas of Africa, because he needs to feel that he has more affiliation with those parts than African Americans.
How pathetic and mentally ill.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: osirion wrote:
osirion wrote:
----------------------------------- Trying to help you see the resemblance of Ethiopians and Egyptians which goes back to my point. -----------------------------------
Which I will repeat is still your fantasy. Considering that the Sudanese and the indigenous Egyptians and some diaspora are the descendants of the Ancient Egyptians.
PS. Those Ethiopian girls you posted look like AAs.
So are you saying that AEs were not related to other East Africans?
If so you sound similar to this bit of Eurocentric logic:
Dark-skinned Nubians inhabit the narrow valley south of Aswan. Although modern studies have been unable to establish the ancestry of the Nubian people or trace changes in the race through history, they carry predominantly Caucasian genes and appear unrelated to other Africans. These people once farmed the narrow margins of the river, planting palm groves along its edge. Hoisting triangular lateen sails above their boats, they hauled rock, transported villagers, and fished the clear, cold Nile.
^ This is what gets the Afrocentrics mad. Even some of the most obviously Black African people, the Nubians, are considered Caucasian by the mainstream.
From my experience with Egyptians is that they admit to being a mixed up people. Never thought I would met a man that had Black skin with Blue eyes, blonde frizzy afro hair and had features no different than other Black peoples. It is a mixed up place. Same is true of parts of Europe, etc, ad nauseam.
The point is that if you roll time backwards Egyptians become more closely related to other East African people and this is clearly evidenced. Thus, the Ancient East Africans looked much more similar to people that are more indigenous to East Africans and you are more likely to find those people in Ethiopia but I must admit I hadn't thought about Sudan.
So lets look at Sudan. Lets look at Northern Sudan. Simple Google search reveals:
Hmm - frankly the Ethiopians look more Egyptian than this Northern Sudanese. As for looking AA, well this guy pretty much is a regular Black guy in America. Of course this picture spamming means nothing.
But I wouldn't mind traveling to Sudan 1arm.
How is your Nubian family doing?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Notice that Djehuti didn't post any facts to support his claim.
While I have documented historical facts to support mine.
The fact that Ancient Egypts origins are from the Nile Valley and the Sahara blows your Ethiopian fantasy out of the water. : )
YOU SANK MY BATTLESHIP!!!!!
hahahahahahhaaha
Huh? Ultimately we all originate in Ethiopia.
Remember - the Nile flows North.
Waves upon Waves of Norther Migrations.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: osirion wrote:
You are 1arm right? Nubian family?
Pretty family as I remember.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
osirion wrote: -------------- Dark-skinned Nubians inhabit the narrow valley south of Aswan. Although modern studies have been unable to establish the ancestry of the Nubian people or trace changes in the race through history, they carry predominantly Caucasian genes and appear unrelated to other Africans. These people once farmed the narrow margins of the river, planting palm groves along its edge. Hoisting triangular lateen sails above their boats, they hauled rock, transported villagers, and fished the clear, cold Nile. --------------
hahahahahahahahah
What a numbskull!
He posts a link to some site full of white pseudoscientific terms like caucasoid and outright lies such as nubian.
I don't even have to say anything further. Your beatdown is already complete. : )
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ But it is this stuff that most Americans believe. Its crap like this. So as a result there are forums like this one.
Pick your side Nubian.
Or should I call you Red Ears.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
osirion wrote:
------------------------ ------------------------
You use bankrupt links that talk about caucasoids, you have bought into the nubian ruse, and you didn't even know that Egypt started from the Nile Valley and saharan complexes.
I need no longer continue to administer a beatdown to you. hahahaheeeeeeeeeee
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ Actually, I don't believe in the usage of Caucasian except to describe people that have a recent origin in that location.
But then I don't believe there are different races of men. I believe in rapid adaptation that can occur within 10000 years. As a result, race makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. All we really have is climatic and dietary adaptations. The rest of diversification can be explained by human migration and mixture.
Posted by Fields (Member # 15825) on :
I agree
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Enough of this Smit colour bullshit. There are berryblack AAs with immediate Euro ancestry and sallow yellow AAs with no known Euro ancestor.
Saying Smit's colour denotes admixture was a gaffe. Just admit it and move on because there's no feature Smit shares with white Europeans other than humanity in general.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Of course but this is besides the point of the troll's neurosis.
quote:gaygoyle wrote: Poor dumb philopeeeeno.
Its already been established that those test are bogus. Sort of like Henry Louis Gates was supposed to be 50% white. hahahahahahahahaha
To note, it's interesting how whites always try to claim any African American that is successful, good looking, or anything else positive. Its no different than what they do with Africa. Which is not surprising that they are performing those bogus test on African Americans. It boosts their self-esteem.
I'll be willing to bet they didn't even run the tests. They probably just went to their computer and just printed off their lies. : )
Its funny that you never hear about them claiming African Americans that are in prison. LOL
LOL I may be of Asian (Filippine) descent but I am an American born citizen, and the only poor dumb fool around here is YOU. There is nothing "fake" about those genetic studies. Do you deny mixing via sexual relations between blacks and whites in America especially forced relations during the Slave Trade???
Yes, some African Americans do have mixed ancestry as do some white Americans. It has nothing about "boosting" anyones self-esteem. In fact many white Americans prefer to hide those facts out of the racist shame that they are related to blacks. So what's the excuse for YOU a white Brit to get involved in African American affairs when you are not even American??
But of course you don't know anything about this because you are not an American and you are white yourself, so why so hard on your own people??
quote: Anyone notice that the dirty phillopeeeno has an unhealthy need for African Americans to be mixed with non-Africans?
How sick. You don't see AAs fantasizing or having a need for philopeeeenos to be mixed.
The reason is because AAs have no desire to claim the Phillopeeeenes since it is a worthless dump. So they don't need to make up race fantasies and hierarchies.
This Djehuti character needs for African Americans to be mixed so that he can keep them out of certain areas of Africa, because he needs to feel that he has more affiliation with those parts than African Americans.
How pathetic and mentally ill.
LMAO No, I have no "need" or anykind of will for African Americans or any people to be "mixed". I'm just pointing out a certain fact. Take for example the study below:
^ Now, does citing such a study on the mixed African ancestry of Brits somehow mean that I have some desire for white Brits like YOU to be mixed? Of course not. It's just a matter of fact. So perhaps you should be more worried about your own mixed black ancestry.
So tell me, why do YOU a white Brit feel the need to accuse me of such or make other false claims on other forum members when it comes to 'race'?? Why do you even come to this forum when you make no actual contributions to the forum subject?? It's obvious YOU are the only one with a mental illness around here! YOU and your boyfriends! Oh and I find it hilarious how you call me "dirty" when considering your sexual relations.
By the way, the journalist I showed was Monica Pearson from my home city.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
I'll be brief since I don't have the time right now.
Again notice how Djehuti and Knowledgeiskey718 avoided all questions asked and never contested the evidence that was put forth.
The only thing they exposed is their sick racial hierarchy of Africans.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:gaygoyle wrote: I'll be brief since I don't have the time right now.
Why? You and your boyfriends have plans for tonight??
quote:Again notice how Djehuti and Knowledgeiskey718 avoided all questions asked and never contested the evidence that was put forth.
LOL All your questions were answered even though they were stupid anyway, and you NEVER presented any evidence-- not in this thread and not in any thread you have ever posted in this forum!
quote:Also notice that they provided no evidence or facts for their fantasies except a television show that was debunked with the following link
You moron, exactly how was the show debunked? The thread you linked to only got one response and there was no debate at all about it. The topic article itself merely pointed out the problems in depending on 'ancestry' tests to define ethnic categories such as 'race', it did NOT refute the value of genetic analysis using Y-chromosomal or mitochondrial DNA!! Such analysis are still valid which is why they are widely used by scientists today and which is also why studies using such analysis are constantly cited here on this forum, you nitwit!! LMAO
quote:The only thing they exposed is their sick racial hierarchy of Africans.
What the hell are you talking about??! What "racial hierarchy" do you speak of??! Please cite examples of how Knowledge or I mention anything of a "racial heirarchy" when our whole point is that 'race' does not even exist?!!
So where do you, your boyfriends, and other white Brits with probable black Africans ancestry fit into this "racial hierarchy"?? Hmm?
ROTLF @ your nonsensical and delusional psychotic babble!
Yes, you obviously have to be "brief" in your response not because you don't have the time, but because everything you say is a lie and you know you cannot defend it! LOL Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Reading this thread is lame. All we got is people arguing if Will Smith is dark enough to play a Kush King.
I say who cares if Smith can play the part of a Kushite. The more important part is how are the other roles going to play. Will they use these other parts to use African Americans that have light skin or will they try and use the Darker African Americans in the role.
Will the sudanese people have a role to play in this Movie.
How will they portray the Egyptians, Will they use Arabs or Africans or will they be politically correct and use both Arabs and Africans as Egyptians.
All I know is that this is a movie that should of been created long ago. Lets just hope that Hollyweird does not make this film like the Mummy movies they have. I want to see as realistic movie as they can make.
Peace
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
quote: Most of Africans brought to the Americas came from the Gold Coast, Nigeria, and Dahomey, or the region known as the area of Guineas, the Slave Coast. However, the vast majority came from the Yorubas and Igbo ethnic groups from Nigeria and the Bantus from the Guineas.
Don't you like how this boy's mind works.
Typical Eurocentric mentality.
First its west Africans were slaves.
Then he reduces it to a few countries out of west Africa that were slaves.
Then its two ethnic groups that were slaves.
Notice in much the same manor as the Eurocentric racialists, that he infers that the Fulani and Hausa were not slaves. This is because Knowledgeiskey718 believes that the Hausa and Fulani are part caucasoid. He has even posted that a few times.
Europeans have absolutely nothing to do with African history and civilizations. Therefore they have to create inventive ways of sneaking themselves into Africa so that they can lay claim to it. By claiming certain groups of its people they believe they can say they created African history and civiliation. From north to south, east to west its the same formula.
Interesting, since Europeans had no problem killing and using as slave labor all of these supposedly caucasoid Egyptians, Algerians, Libyans, berbers, Fulanis, Hausas, Ethiopians, Somalis, Nubians, Zulus, Eritreans, Moroccans, Malians, etc.
Knowledgeiskey718 is not an actual real world scholar, rather he is a faux keyboard scholar on this internet forum. Which means he has to argue by authority, which in his mind the ultimate authority on Africans are whites.
This is why the eurocentrists are able to sodomize his mind so easily. Go ahead and ask him how many scientific journals has he written. LOL : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
First Djehuti writes:
quote: The point is usually African Americans with complexions like Will Smith are the result of some mixed ancestry. There is nothing racist about it. It's just a basic fact.
Then alTakruri writes:
quote: Saying Smit's colour denotes admixture was a gaffe. Just admit it and move on because there's no feature Smit shares with white Europeans other than humanity in general.
So in response to the alTakruri statement above, Djehuti writes:
quote: Of course
Its clear that Djehuti is the zeta male in the keyboard scholar pack. LOL!
Now watch in five minutes he'll contradict himself again.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote:
quote: ^ The black journalist above may not (mixed) look it at all because of her dark complexion and other features
This statement clearly shows that this boy believes in black features.
What are these features? Don't be vague and don't try to distract with strawmen (for example don't start talking about something else).
Again what are the "features" that you are talking about?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Djehuti wrote:
quote: The point is usually African Americans with complexions like Will Smith are the result of some mixed ancestry. There is nothing racist about it. It's just a basic fact.
On what do you base this on?
We are looking for factual evidence in your answer, so no opinions or fantasies will be accepted.
Again the question is: On what do you base this on?
Posted by Tyrann0saurus (Member # 3735) on :
To throw my two cents in, I think Will Smith should play an Egyptian rather than a Kushite. It's not because he looks like a member of either ethnic group more, it's because I am sick of every black person in a Nilotic-themed movie being a "Nubian".
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
I'm not even going to bother responding to gaygoyles last posts since it is mere repetition. Everything was answered already.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:gaygoyle wrote: I'll be brief since I don't have the time right now.
Why? You and your boyfriends have plans for tonight??
quote:Again notice how Djehuti and Knowledgeiskey718 avoided all questions asked and never contested the evidence that was put forth.
LOL All your questions were answered even though they were stupid anyway, and you NEVER presented any evidence-- not in this thread and not in any thread you have ever posted in this forum!
quote:Also notice that they provided no evidence or facts for their fantasies except a television show that was debunked with the following link
You moron, exactly how was the show debunked? The thread you linked to only got one response and there was no debate at all about it. The topic article itself merely pointed out the problems in depending on 'ancestry' tests to define ethnic categories such as 'race', it did NOT refute the value of genetic analysis using Y-chromosomal or mitochondrial DNA!! Such analysis are still valid which is why they are widely used by scientists today and which is also why studies using such analysis are constantly cited here on this forum, you nitwit!! LMAO
quote:The only thing they exposed is their sick racial hierarchy of Africans.
What the hell are you talking about??! What "racial hierarchy" do you speak of??! Please cite examples of how Knowledge or I mention anything of a "racial heirarchy" when our whole point is that 'race' does not even exist?!!
So where do you, your boyfriends, and other white Brits with probable black Africans ancestry fit into this "racial hierarchy"?? Hmm?
ROTLF @ your nonsensical and delusional psychotic babble!
Yes, you obviously have to be "brief" in your response not because you don't have the time, but because everything you say is a lie and you know you cannot defend it! LOL
Gaygoyle is just angry from the latest findings on his own black African ancestry as mentioned above.
For those interested in the full study, see it here: European Journal of Genetics. Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
So why is this thread in the Egyptology section anyway!!
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Most of Africans brought to the Americas came from the Gold Coast, Nigeria, and Dahomey, or the region known as the area of Guineas, the Slave Coast. However, the vast majority came from the Yorubas and Igbo ethnic groups from Nigeria and the Bantus from the Guineas.
Slaves came from everywhere in Africa, there was just a large concentration taken from the ivory and gold coast. Africans abroad were taken everywhere from west, central, to southeast Africa and Bantu people are rare in Guinea. Guineans by and large speak Niger-Congo. The Mande, Fulani, and other groups dominate the region and speak Niger-Congo, not Bantu. What "Bantus of Guinea" are you talking about and since when were ONLY Yoruba and Igbo sold into bondage, or were even the dominant groups that were? From my understanding, AAs comprise hundreds of ethnic groups through out Africa (mostly from west, central, and to a lesser extent, southeast), all of whom were not homogeneous in facial features and skin complexion, as rings true today. Some ethnic groups who were the subject of inquiry (of Eurocentrics) due to their supposedly peculiar facial features and skin complexion relative to the "true negro", such as the Fulbe, came to America in large numbers, with the story of Abdulrahman Ibrahim Ibn Sori being a prominent example of this. Minimizing the inherent diversity of AAs is futile since they are the sons and daughters of Africa.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718,
According to you, white people are responsible for the looks of African Americans.
If this is true then how come African Americans do not age badly like whites?
You can answer this question can you? You are supposedly a scholar are you not? : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718,
According to you "light brown skin" in Africans and African Americans is the result of white people.
If an African American or African has "light brown skin" and he has siblings that have darker skin, why did the darker siblings not have "light brown skin"? Since according to you the admixture is in the family, your "light brown skin" = admixed dogma doesn't make sense at all.
How on earth does that work in your universe?
Now let's see if this so called scholar will answer.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Sundjata since it appears that you are contradicting yourself in your own post. Let me provide you with some scholarship. : )
"Bantu" is part of the Niger-Congo branch.
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata:
Most of Africans brought to the What "Bantus of Guinea" are you talking about
I assume the poster was referring to Equatorial Guinea perhaps, at or near the northern regional limit of Bantu language speakers?
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
Perhaps the following should give some indicator of the sources of Black populations of the Americas...
The relative prevalence of these haplotypes in the Americas reflects the different origins of their African peoples, approximately 70% of HbS associated chromosomes having the Benin haplotype, 10% Senegal and 10% Bantu. Haplotype frequencies in Jamaica are similar to the USA but the Bantu haplotype accounts for the majority of HbS associated chromosomes in Brazil.9 — Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, MRC Laboratories (Jamaica), University of the West Indies, Kingston.
Btw, I can't stress how funny it must be to most continental Africans to hear that Will Smith's complexion is anomalous to sub-Saharan Africa, and so, must be indicative of gene flow from a pale-skin source(?).
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Explorateur: "Bantu" is part of the Niger-Congo branch.
Indeed. I feel that the mistake made was probably his assumption that Niger-Congo was part of the Bantu family instead of Bantu being a part of Niger-Congo (Niger-Congo B). Given such knowledge, it is apparent that West Atlantic languages are not Bantu, for example. This also exposes the inherent problem of associating ethnic labels to language families in my opinion, even when there is a relationship.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Sundjata since it appears that you are contradicting yourself in your own post. Let me provide you with some scholarship. : )
Huh? How did I contradict myself and why are you linking me to pre-selected google search queries and random webpages on Rastafarian hearsay?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Why do you guys continue to chase Gaygoyle?? You know all he does is make false accusations and claims and then claims he refuted others. LOL He's just a loon in serious need of help.
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
Recap: Perhaps the following should give some indicator of the sources of Black populations of the Americas...
The relative prevalence of these haplotypes in the Americas reflects the different origins of their African peoples, approximately 70% of HbS associated chromosomes having the Benin haplotype, 10% Senegal and 10% Bantu. Haplotype frequencies in Jamaica are similar to the USA but the Bantu haplotype accounts for the majority of HbS associated chromosomes in Brazil.9 — Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, MRC Laboratories (Jamaica), University of the West Indies, Kingston.
Btw, I can't stress how funny it must be to most continental Africans to hear that Will Smith's complexion is anomalous to sub-Saharan Africa, and so, must be indicative of gene flow from a pale-skin source(?).
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Sundjata wrote:
quote: Huh? How did I contradict myself
Ok since you don't have the intelligence to read and comprehend your own writing, I will explain it to you as if you were a child.
On one hand Sundjata said:
quote: Slaves came from everywhere in Africa
Then on the next Sundjata said:
quote: Africans abroad were taken everywhere from west, central, to southeast Africa
Do you understand now? I can simplify it more if that was to difficult for you.
Sundjata wrote:
quote: why are you linking me to pre-selected google search queries and random webpages on Rastafarian hearsay?
So now you know more than the Africans themselves. Is this because the white man has told you differently?
So apparently you don't trust what Africans themselves know because of your inferiority complex to the white man, who we all know never tells lies.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Explorateur wrote: ------------------------------ Recap: Perhaps the following should give some indicator of the sources of Black populations of the Americas... ------------------------------
Then again perhaps not. LOL!
Unless you are in the laboratory and witnessing these supposed tests on these few people. Your quote is to be deemed as rubbish.
Its interesting that people who think of themselves as intelligent seem hostile to doing their own research even when someone shows them the information a mouse click away.
Is the laziness so great that people have to lap dog studies instead of doing their own research just by clicking a mouse?
You people cannot be considered intellectual when you have such intellectual laziness.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Knowledgeiskey718 wrote:
---------------------------------- Most of Africans brought to the Americas came from the Gold Coast, Nigeria, and Dahomey, or the region known as the area of Guineas, the Slave Coast. However, the vast majority came from the Yorubas and Igbo ethnic groups from Nigeria and the Bantus from the Guineas. ----------------------------------
Isn't it interesting how in Knowledgeiskey718's world "west" Africa doesn't include Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, and Mali?
What is going on here Knowledgeiskey718?
Posted by Explorateur (Member # 14778) on :
Recap: Perhaps the following should give some indicator of the sources of Black populations of the Americas...
The relative prevalence of these haplotypes in the Americas reflects the different origins of their African peoples, approximately 70% of HbS associated chromosomes having the Benin haplotype, 10% Senegal and 10% Bantu. Haplotype frequencies in Jamaica are similar to the USA but the Bantu haplotype accounts for the majority of HbS associated chromosomes in Brazil.9 — Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, MRC Laboratories (Jamaica), University of the West Indies, Kingston.
Btw, I can't stress how funny it must be to most continental Africans to hear that Will Smith's complexion is anomalous to sub-Saharan Africa, and so, must be indicative of gene flow from a pale-skin source(?).
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ ROTFL
Looks like gArgoyle forgot to take his medicine today and thus his psychosis is worse!
First of all this discussion about Will Smith is not even that serious. Of course Africans vary in features in complexions but the point is African Americans largely derive from populations that are usually darker than his complexion meaning that Will Smith probably and likely has mixed-ancestry. That said modern-day African Americans and ancient Kushites are two different peoples. Regardless this is a Hollywood movie so frankly I don't give a damn!
YOU MEAN ANCIENT KUSHITES AND AFRICAN AMERICAN ETHNICALLY AND CULURALLY ARE DIFFERENT BUT RACIAL ARE THE SAME,JUST LIKE WHITE AMERICANS AND GREEKS/ROMANS.OF COURSE A FEW CEN AGO,THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS A WHITE AMERICAN OR AFRICAN AMERICAN.
I DON'T MEAN TO NIT PICK BUT I JUST WANT THAT TO BE CLEAR.
Posted by refreshed (Member # 15850) on :
WTF is this thread doing here?
Are we being arbitarily punished?
Posted by Momma Dukes (Member # 14252) on :
im allergic to nerds.
please go back to planet vulcan.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Yup Momma, I am wondering too how this thread could possibly end up on here.
~ TL
Posted by Hibbah (Member # 12156) on :
LOL, this is so funny! what are the ancient Egypt/Egyptology guys doing here?
Posted by refreshed (Member # 15850) on :
This thread has some age to it.
I think it was moved by someone other than a ES owner or mod.
I hate these raciology threads with a passion.
Posted by Shareen (Member # 989) on :
Great thread though lol....... dont you just love how Will Smith can create such a stir! Will Smith is hijacked!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Notice the vile sick racism of Knowledgeiskey and Djehuti.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL Of course the only thing they notice is your insanity and lies! Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Notice that he is attempting to distract via a lie.
Djehuti is doing this because he thought this thread was deleted and his racism against certain Africans that is plain to see in this thread was gone for good.
Surpised Djehuti?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Hey Knowledgeiskey,
Bet you thought that your depraved racial postings on this thread were gone via thread deletion.
They ain't.
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: The Zulu tribe is the Zulu nation. The 12 Tribes of Israel had three nations. The Fulani tribe had how many empires?
The definition of tribe has nothing to do with size or sophistication.
"A 'tribe' is" NOT "a small socio-political division usually within a single ethnicity."
Still LOL@"Fulani Empires"
Man that's funny LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata:
quote:Originally posted by Explorateur: "Bantu" is part of the Niger-Congo branch.
Indeed. I feel that the mistake made was probably his assumption that Niger-Congo was part of the Bantu family instead of Bantu being a part of Niger-Congo (Niger-Congo B). Given such knowledge, it is apparent that West Atlantic languages are not Bantu, for example. This also exposes the inherent problem of associating ethnic labels to language families in my opinion, even when there is a relationship.
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Sundjata since it appears that you are contradicting yourself in your own post. Let me provide you with some scholarship. : )
Huh? How did I contradict myself and why are you linking me to pre-selected google search queries and random webpages on Rastafarian hearsay?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh man I am dying laughing. Sundjata are you telling me that those links were to Rastafarian sites?!?
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder this clown keeps saying all of Africa was enslaved(which is actually Eurocentric). I am so glad I never even attempted to look at his *scholarship* from some weed smoking self hating Halle Sellasie loving losers in Jamaica.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wolofi aka woof woof weef weef wee aka vida (the white boy):
quote: Still LOL@"Fulani Empires
Your postings are nothing more than a desperate cry for ointment.
ha ha ha ha heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wolofi aka woof woof weef weef wee aka vida (the white boy with pink blisters on his penis) wrote:
--------------------------------- I am so glad I never even attempted to look at his *scholarship* from some weed smoking self hating Halle Sellasie loving losers in Jamaica. ---------------------------------
Then you are dismissed as not only lazy and anti-intellectual but also an illiterate because the above links are from a variety of documented sources which if you could read you would know.
This beatdown was too easy. LOL : )
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
I am a desperate Afro American wanna be rastafarian that is retarded
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! man you are pathetic...all this time I had no idea you were a silly azz rasta!!!!!!!
It all makes sense now, those idiots actually think they come from North Africa because someone TOLD them that LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!! And you have the audacity to hate science. Man you are fu cking retarded Argyle for real lol.
I even spoke to a Jamaican that said he couldn't relate to West Africans because he had a straight nose and he is from East and North East Africa.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL whew.
And of course he was a Rasta. No wonder you defend mulattos and people that don't look remotely black in your diatribe.
DUMB AZZ NI GGA!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by mcprep66 (Member # 16067) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Personally, Will Smith doesn't look much a Kushite to me
He doesn't to me either!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wolofi aka woof woof weef weef wee aka vida (the white boy with pink blisters on his penis) wrote:
quote:
Damn I must have gotten your blisters riled up with my post.
Well the below certainly won't soothe them. LOL : ) ---------------------------
Wolofi aka woof woof weef weef wee aka vida (the white boy with pink blisters on his penis) wrote: ----------------------------- -----------------------------
LOL! That site contained the direct quote from the Abunas himself.
Are you saying we are to believe you an anonymous white boy over the Abunas? LOL!
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
look at this fag he is mad
LOLOLOLOLOLOL you dumb azz mulatto rastafarian lmao
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Wolofi aka woof woof weef weef wee aka vida (the white boy with pink blisters on his penis) wrote: ------------------------------------------- look at this fag he is mad
LOLOLOLOLOLOL you dumb azz mulatto rastafarian lmao -------------------------------------------
Notice people how his intellectual defeat has caused him to react in such a non-intellectual fashion.
He can't refute the facts that were provided and my effective counters to his pitiful replies so he reacts like a crazy man being wheeled into the reception area at his local mental ward.
It is so easy to administer scholarly beatdowns to this deranged individual.
ha ha ha heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
One has to ask why this Wolofi aka woof woof weef weef wee aka vida (the white boy with pink blisters on his penis) is so obsessed with and derangely upset about African Americans,African Carribeans, and African Latinos having ancestry from Africa (north, southern, east, and west).
He even goes so far as to change characters on the forum. LOL
It seems as if his self-esteem takes a blow every time Africans discuss their ancestry (north, southern, east, and west).
I wonder is it because such discussions make his blisters flare up. hahahahahahahahahahaha
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
This Knowledgeiskey718 fellow displays racism against Africans that is eerily similar to white racist scientists of the 1800s.
Just look at this thread.
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion: My point is, we're finally getting a respectable movie on an African Empire and people don't even act happy. Just want to criticize.
Agreed, but there is a legitimate fear that Hollywood will once again spin the National Geographic party line- i.e. 'Negroes' in Nubia, and "Caucasoids" in Egypt. And we know the picture they will present- white Egypt here, alien dark foreigners over there. It is a valid fear, and a valid criticism.
Butin fact "dark" or "black" skin was never andhas never been "alien" or "foreign" to Egypt. The newer research mentioned by Knowledge (ie. the limb proportion studies) debunk the "foreign" notion, but older studies way back from the 1970s note that black skin is very much partof the mix, even in modern Egypt. Quote:
"In Libya, which is mostly desert and oasis, there is a visible Negroid element in the sedentary populations, and at the same is true of the Fellahin of Egypt, whether Copt or Muslim. Osteological studies have shown that the Negroid element was stronger in predynastic times than at present, reflecting an early movement northward along the banks of the Nile, which were then heavily forested." (Encyclopedia Britannica 1974 and 1982 eds. "Populations, Human")[136]
and into the 1990s..
"The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )[119]
Black or dark-skinned people are very much part of the picture in past AND present Egypt. Ironically, it was the peoples from the 'darker' south that conquered or absorbed the north to usher in the well known Dynastic civilization. Whether Will Smith is 'representative' enough is not the key issue. Its whether we will once again get fed the "black or dark-skinned = foreign" party line. Do you really expect Hollywood to tell the whole story based on actual scientific research, versus spinning yet another line of BS, Will Smith or no Will SMith?
We all know Hollywood- with its dubious spin at the end of the movie Gladiator as to the 'restoration' of 'democratic' values, (yeah right- when did that happen in the time of the Caesars?) or the dubious spin in '300 Spartans' portraying the Spartans as champions of 'reason and freedom' versus 'tyranny and mysticism.'
Any informed movie goer knows it is all BS. SOME Greeks advanced the concept of abstract reason, but most Greeks were actually quite 'superstitious' and several of the vaunted rationalist philosophers laced their spiels with references to the Greek gods. Indeed, a number of 'rationalist' philosophers asserted the power of INTUITION for their claims, not direct observation or measurement. And then we have Greek religion. So Hollywood's bogus dichotomy between those vile 'superstitous' Asiatics versus virtuous 'rational' Greeks is just a load of crap. See: http://everything2.com/e2node/Theology%2520in%2520ancient%2520Greek%2520natural%2520philosophy
And that's just one example. As for the vaunted Spartans, they were among the worst tyrants in Greece, not only subjugating several independent Greek states, but maintaining the bulk of their homeland population in conditions close to slavery. The condition of their own helots undermines Hollywood's facile claims about 'freedom'.
Is it any wonder then that several on this board are skeptical of Hollywood's intentions, objectivity or capabilities?
Posted by Knowledgeiskey718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Butin fact "dark" or "black" skin was never andhas never been "alien" or "foreign" to Egypt. The newer research mentioned by Knowledge (ie. the limb proportion studies) debunk the "foreign" notion, but older studies way back from the 1970s note that black skin is very much partof the mix, even in modern Egypt. Quote:
"In Libya, which is mostly desert and oasis, there is a visible Negroid element in the sedentary populations, and at the same is true of the Fellahin of Egypt, whether Copt or Muslim. Osteological studies have shown that the Negroid element was stronger in predynastic times than at present, reflecting an early movement northward along the banks of the Nile, which were then heavily forested." (Encyclopedia Britannica 1974 and 1982 eds. "Populations, Human")[136]
Actually the Encyclopedia Britannica article is also in reference towards limb proportions, as osteology is the scientific study of bones, which can not tell one about the skin color but from the data given "negroid" translates to tropically adapted, and the nearest tropics are sub-saharan East Africa, and tropically adapted Saharan's are dark skinned. Ancient Egyptians were tropically adapted Saharan's. The limb proportion studies which label Ancient Egyptians as "super Negroid" also ties them to the indigenous lands of sub Saharan tropical East Africa.
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
It should be a citizen of mother Sudan that plays the role of pharaoh.
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
^^^ Maybe, but that won't bring many box office receipts. I would have been more courageous of Hollywood if they cast Will Smith or Denzel as an EGYPTIAN pharoah, prior to the advent of Taharqua, who by the way was a restorer of Egyptian culture. That would be breaking some new ground for them. Casting Smith as a distant "Nubian" pharoah is fairly safe, and doesn't really challenge the party line.
Hollywood has more than enough role models within Egyptian history- like the Pharoah Seqenenre. Seqenenre is one of a number of New Kingdom pharaohs also held to be of Nubian origin by conservative egyptologists such as Donald B. Redford (History and Chronology of the Eighteenth Dynasty of Egypt), or Frank Yurco[195].
"Cephalometric work on Old and New Kingdom remains demonstrates variability in the ancient period, as noted in observations by Harris and Weeks (1973:123) of a Seventeenth Dynasty pharaoh:
'His entire facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs (it is closest to that of his son Ahmose) that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian-that is, non-Egyptian-origin for Seqenenre and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true., MacGaffey (1966) comments on variation in ancient Egyptian portraiture. 'Negroid' and 'Egyptian' were not mutually exclusive [see Petrie, (19061, plate xix.]" S. O. Y. Keita and A.J. Boyce, "The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians.."
Seqenenre also has a pretty good back story in some ways. He lived a short, heroic life. He was the pharoah credited with the major beginnings of the liberation of Egypt from the foreign Hyskos rulers. So right off the bat you have wars, liberation, etc etc, and 'white' Asiatics to boot- the Hyskos. This is more than enough for Hollywood to give us a good rip-roaring, action-filled yarn with exotic looking women, romance or whatever thrown in.
So Hollywood has plenty of drama to work with here, in addition to the research data posted above by Knowledge. Will Smith as Taharqua is a pretty easy call for them. Will Smith as Seqenenre or say Djoser is something they would be afraid of. I guess any movie on Egypt giving some exposure to the "other" Egytian history is better than nothing, but I suspect we will be waiting a very long time for a more balanced presentation even in that one. Will Hollywood for example show that the 25th Dynasty rulers were RESTORERS of Egyptian culture/religion etc, or will they emphasize/spin that they were "foreign"?
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
What else would you expect from an institutional form of racism whose first major production was 'Birth of a Nation'. I mean we ARE talking hollywierd here, not some institution that is founded on truth and accuracy.
LOL! F*ck Hollywood is the point. People need to stop expecting an institution built on racism to tell their history. That is an insult to that history.
Posted by meninarmer (Member # 12654) on :
^ Agreed. Boycott Hollywood by not spending your dough on their Anti-Black image products. African Americans spend nearly $700,000,000,000 ($700 billion dollars) annually. African Americans spend $3 billion on entertainment, but none of those dollars spent do not yield a return to the black community.
If you got to see it, download it for free from a torrent and spend the money instead with a black business.
Posted by Heru-Tunde (Member # 16164) on :
I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
Welcome to ES, son of Oduduwa. I too am from the Yoruba collective.
Posted by Alive (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
Thank you
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
If one wanted to be absolutely accurate, will smith is way outside of the range of the average Sudanese. Sudanese are the direct descendants of the ancient Kushites and most of them do NOT look like Will Smith. That is simply a fact. The only reason he is playing the role is because of his star power and the fact his production company will have a big part in it. This has nothing to do with any desire for absolute accuracy. Hollywood is not about science it is about entertainment.
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
1. You are a mongrel 2. You are a yellow bastard(Eranko)(caused by albinism) 3. You are a lying sack of shiit
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
Posted by Heru-Tunde (Member # 16164) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
1. You are a mongrel 2. You are a yellow bastard(Eranko)(caused by albinism) 3. You are a lying sack of shiit
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
First of all, im not a mongrel, a albino or a lying sack of **** as you call it, why would i lie? it doesn't appeal to me to lie about my skin tone, im just merely stating the truth, my cousin is nearly light as me as well, as is my mum, have you ever been to nigeria?, that type of ignorance sums up your intelligence, i think its my thought in thinking you had a small bit of intellect, i am happy with who i am i have no reason to lie. And how do you know there is not a yoruba person as light as will smith theres 29 million of us, and thats only in nigeria,you obviously haven't been exposed to yoruba people enough
Posted by Alive (Member # 10819) on :
^Your talking to FakeAss_not_Wolofi.
He's a poser, a white boy from florida posing as a black person so he can talk **** and start stuff.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ So in other words, he's like all the other trolls in here including gaygle an assopen. Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alive: ^Your talking to FakeAss_not_Wolofi.
He's a poser, a white boy from florida posing as a black person so he can talk **** and start stuff.
This is coming from a jobless educationless mulatto from compton? Who are you to call someone fake? And who the fu ck is the white boy from FLorida?!?!?
LMAO Thats funny
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Well the filthy no life foreigner Djehuti believes you are mixed. He believes he knows more about your ethnic group than you do.
He has said racist things about Africans on several occasions. The dirty philopeeeno believes that he is lord over Africans and has commited his life to obsessing them relentlessly.
He ought to take all of that time and act like a man and keep them west Asians from abusing his housemaid women.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Pay DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi no mind. He is a white boy whose penis has pink blisters on it.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:The sexually abused hole spewed: Well the filthy no life foreigner Djehuti believes you are mixed. He believes he knows more about your ethnic group than you do.
More lies. About me being 'foreign' and about me saying something I never said about Heru.
quote:He has said racist things about Africans on several occasions. The dirty philopeeeno believes that he is lord over Africans and has commited his life to obsessing them relentlessly.
I said racist things such as? And how do I believe to be "lord" of Africans?! LMAO
quote:He ought to take all of that time and act like a man and keep them west Asians from abusing his housemaid women.
What housemaid women? I'm not rich, I clean my own house. Why don't you worry about your own sexual abuse?
quote: Pay DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi no mind. He is a white boy whose penis has pink blisters on it.
You mean like YOU?!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi aka the white boy with pink blisters on his penis wrote:
quote: There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
1. You are a mongrel 2. You are a yellow bastard(Eranko)(caused by albinism) 3. You are a lying sack of shiit
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
Look at the emotional knee-jerk reaction this creature has exhibited. You see this is a threat is a to:
a. white folks ability to claim Ancient Egypt
(a yoruba that is lighter than Will Smith is a threat. you have to remember in order to steal a culture you have to juxtapose populations in order for the outside group to have any hope of claiming an affiliation to the culture targeted for theft. Think of the "Aryan Invasion of India" myth. In Africa's case they have tried to say that west Africans are dark and the Ancient Egyptians are light like us whites, and we whites are in the (ficticious) caucasoid group, therefore the AEs were caucasoids)
b. their ability to prevent AAs from having claim to Africa period.
(Yorubas are in so called "west Africa". The myth that "west Africans" were the only ones brought to the Americas as slaves has been destroyed. Since if "lightskin" Yorubas were brought to the Americas then commonsense and logic says that the descendants of the Ancient Egyptians who are much darker than "lightskin" Yorubas were certainly brought here as slaves also.)
c. whites desire to make believe they are godlike creators of humanity.
(Whites cannot claim they are responsible for the skin color and looks of Africans and its diaspora.)
The above are why this pale wretched beast is so threatened by Heru-Tunde's description of himself.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^^ Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
1. You are a mongrel 2. You are a yellow bastard(Eranko)(caused by albinism) 3. You are a lying sack of shiit
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
LOL, I just came from non-urbanized Yoruba territory:
^ It doesn't get any more Yoruba than that. Believe me.
And that may well be an image of a man who was yellow. Who knows.
And I tell ya, most of us Yorubas are VERY dark skinned people, but I could notice all the way from Lagos island through to Oshogbo, about 10% (maybe slightly less) of the population is of a fair complexion - genuinely yellowish - not due to admixture, albinism or bleaching.
I noticed this phenomenon across Nigeria, from south to north.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti:
And I tell ya, most of us Yorubas are VERY dark skinned people, but I could notice all the way from Lagos island through to Oshogbo, about 10% (maybe slightly less) of the population is of a fair complexion - genuinely yellowish - not due to admixture, albinism or bleaching.
I noticed this phenomenon across Nigeria, from south to north.
Of course, a high degree of "within-population" phenotype variation exists in African populations, as one study posted here recently further corroborates; it is amusing to see non-Africans coming here, professing to be experts on things African, while yet, never having even set foot on the continent. I suppose they assume that the real Africans don't visit this site, who knows. Posted by Alive (Member # 10819) on :
Must be. Posted by SEEKING (Member # 10105) on :
Will Smith’s Lesson for Jerusalem The Continental Divide
Hollywood star Will Smith is reportedly planning to make a movie on Taharqa, a black warrior king from Nubia who ruled over Egypt during the 7th-century BCE. The film is likely to focus on issues of black pride, but if Smith and his scriptwriters do their homework well, “The Last Pharaoh” should also be of particular interest to Jewish moviegoers. According to some scholars, Taharqa played a key part in the early history of Judaism — and his story carries a crucial lesson for the future of the State of Israel.
The figure of Taharqa, who was born in what is today Sudan, is linked to a pivotal historical event that is described in the Bible: the Assyrian siege of Jerusalem in 701 BCE. Hezekiah, the king of Judah, had little chance of surviving that onslaught by one of the greatest military powers on earth; only two decades before, the Assyrians had conquered the neighboring kingdom of Israel and deported many of its citizens.
But the Assyrians eventually withdrew from the walls of Jerusalem and Hezekiah’s throne was saved. Judah kept its independence for another 115 years, until it was defeated by the Babylonians, who went on to destroy the first temple in 586 BCE.
The rescue of Jerusalem had enormous consequences for religious thought. Recent archaeological discoveries have convinced most historians that monotheism had not yet fully taken root among Israelites at the time of the siege, and the Torah had very likely yet to be written down.
It was only after the withdrawal of the Assyrians that the embattled survivors became deeply convinced that their God was truly unique and almighty. That new belief then had more than a century to evolve and flourish, and it grew strong enough to allow the exiled Jews to retain their faith during the Babylonian exile and later return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple.
Why, though, did the Assyrians withdraw from Jerusalem? The Bible talks about God visiting a plague on the invading army. It also mentions a lack of water in the Judean Hills that bedevilled the besiegers, and archaeologists have since credited King Hezekiah for having the foresight to build a tunnel to Gihon Springs that gave the city a secure water supply.
But in a recent book, journalist turned historian Henry Aubin argues convincingly that it was the approach of the Kushite-Nubian army — headed by young Taharqa, whom the Bible refers to as king of Ethiopia — that made the Assyrians lose heart. Militarily, it makes sense: It’s not the best idea to be caught up besieging a city like Jerusalem when a hostile force approaches from the rear.
The turn of events was arguably one of the most important moments in human history. Had Jerusalem been destroyed in 701 BCE, Judaism very well have disappeared before it really got underway. The other two monotheistic world religions, Christianity and Islam, might never have been born. It was the timely intervention of a black warrior that convinced an embattled tribe in the Judean hills that their god was so special that they would still pray to him 2,700 years later.
The lessons of this unlikely alliance between Jews and Nubians are worth pondering as Israel approaches its 60th birthday.
What the Judean king did was play a good game of geopolitics. He chose a strong ally at the right moment to help him against a dangerous foe. The Assyrians later defeated Taharqa and drove him out of Egypt, but they left the kingdom of Judah alone.
The combination of fortuitous geopolitical circumstances and smart diplomacy was also crucial during other successful episodes in Jewish history.
The Maccabean revolt in the 2nd century BCE, which we commemorate each year during Chanukah, was, to be sure, a truly popular uprising. Independence, however, only came and was sustained with the help of the rising Roman republic, which regarded the Hasmoneans as a pawn in their battle against the Greek-Seleucid empire.
One hundred years later, King Herod demonstrated even greater tactical skills and maintained Judea’s independence from Rome against all geopolitical odds. Disaster only struck when radical nationalists staged the hopeless revolt against the Romans in 66 C.E.
The founding fathers of modern-day Israel likewise knew how to play a good game of geopolitics. Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion took advantage of, at various times, British, French, American and Soviet interests to secure the Balfour declaration, the United Nations resolution dividing Palestine, and military support for the War of Independence. The strength and heroism of the Haganah obviously mattered quite a bit, but without the right allies, Israel would likely never have come into existence.
The Jewish state is today militarily and politically stronger than at any time in its history. At the same time, plenty of threats remain — and the future of Israel may again depend on correctly reading the geopolitical trends and making the best of them. It may even require Jerusalem to look for allies besides America, perhaps ones in unexpected places.
Such an approach might mean Israel linking up more closely with the expanding sphere of stability and prosperity that the European Union is trying to create on its eastern and southeastern flank. Israel’s most important ally in this endeavor may turn out to be Turkey, a Muslim state vying for full E.U. membership within a decade.
In dealing with Iran, Israel may find allies for a strategy of containment among those Sunni Arab states that feel at least as threatened by Shi’ite fanaticism as Israel does. On the other hand, Iran might one day again become a geopolitical ally against aggressive Arab designs, as it was under the reign of the shah.
Such clever diplomacy requires flexibility, pragmatism, opportunism and a light touch when it comes to Muslim sensitivities. Self-righteousness, stubbornness and a misguided myth of self-reliance are counterproductive in the realm for diplomacy. Beating up on Hamas radicals and other demonstrations of toughness may make political sense in the short term, but more often than not they make Israel more isolated and therefore more vulnerable.
When national survival is at stake, one can always pray for God’s timely intervention — but searching out a modern-day Taharqa might not be a bad back-up plan.
Eric Frey is managing editor of the Vienna daily Der Standard.
^ one of the "allies for a strategy" not mentioned in that article is Nazi Germany.
And I like this part, the "strength and heroism of the Haganah"! What they really mean to say is the terror they struck in Palestinian people like cutting apart the bellies of pregnant women etc, and who can forget "Deir Yassin"?
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti:
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
1. You are a mongrel 2. You are a yellow bastard(Eranko)(caused by albinism) 3. You are a lying sack of shiit
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
LOL, I just came from non-urbanized Yoruba territory:
^ It doesn't get any more Yoruba than that. Believe me.
And that may well be an image of a man who was yellow. Who knows.
And I tell ya, most of us Yorubas are VERY dark skinned people, but I could notice all the way from Lagos island through to Oshogbo, about 10% (maybe slightly less) of the population is of a fair complexion - genuinely yellowish - not due to admixture, albinism or bleaching.
I noticed this phenomenon across Nigeria, from south to north.
Yeah but the difference is I KNOW you are Yoruba and Nigerian and that dude is either lying about being Nigerian or he IS a Nigerian Anglophile that wants people to think he is yellow
The point I am making is that a yellow skinned African is an aberration at best and the odds of one Nigerian yellow bastard to find this site are million to one so you can't take it seriously.
Posted by nomorelies (Member # 16201) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti:
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
1. You are a mongrel 2. You are a yellow bastard(Eranko)(caused by albinism) 3. You are a lying sack of shiit
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
LOL, I just came from non-urbanized Yoruba territory:
^ It doesn't get any more Yoruba than that. Believe me.
And that may well be an image of a man who was yellow. Who knows.
And I tell ya, most of us Yorubas are VERY dark skinned people, but I could notice all the way from Lagos island through to Oshogbo, about 10% (maybe slightly less) of the population is of a fair complexion - genuinely yellowish - not due to admixture, albinism or bleaching.
I noticed this phenomenon across Nigeria, from south to north.
Yeah but the difference is I KNOW you are Yoruba and Nigerian and that dude is either lying about being Nigerian or he IS a Nigerian Anglophile that wants people to think he is yellow
The point I am making is that a yellow skinned African is an aberration at best and the odds of one Nigerian yellow bastard to find this site are million to one so you can't take it seriously.
^ I wonder if you can identify the Igbos by their extensive use of the colour red? They use it all the way.
Anyway, when we're talking about genuinely yellow Igbos, we're probably talking about 30% or so. Much higher than among Yorubas.
Also, there are some/most Yellow Igbos who have their own very unique look - you can identify them instantly (no matter where in the world you came across them) without having to talk to them - but I think one has to have grown up in Nigeria be able to recognise them (i.e. pattern knowledge).
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
The lady singing sounds like Kelis. Do y'all think Kelis might have major Igbo ancestry? She's quite yellowish. Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
I love Nigeria. Posted by Lord Sauron (Member # 6729) on :
^ I prefer the feisty girl in the pink dress to the Yellow girl though. That would be my pick among those girls. Posted by Heru-Tunde (Member # 16164) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti:
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
1. You are a mongrel 2. You are a yellow bastard(Eranko)(caused by albinism) 3. You are a lying sack of shiit
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
LOL, I just came from non-urbanized Yoruba territory:
^ It doesn't get any more Yoruba than that. Believe me.
And that may well be an image of a man who was yellow. Who knows.
And I tell ya, most of us Yorubas are VERY dark skinned people, but I could notice all the way from Lagos island through to Oshogbo, about 10% (maybe slightly less) of the population is of a fair complexion - genuinely yellowish - not due to admixture, albinism or bleaching.
I noticed this phenomenon across Nigeria, from south to north.
Yeah but the difference is I KNOW you are Yoruba and Nigerian and that dude is either lying about being Nigerian or he IS a Nigerian Anglophile that wants people to think he is yellow
The point I am making is that a yellow skinned African is an aberration at best and the odds of one Nigerian yellow bastard to find this site are million to one so you can't take it seriously.
My god you are pissing me off, first of all im afull nigerian as ive told your stupid ass before, a yoruba born in egnland from oyo state(ibadan), your a fool and can believe what you want to i simply made a stament that, im as light as will smith and what do you mean by yellow? now is that a problem have you never seen a western african that is lighter than(someone like taye diggs) what you people like to call the "typical western african", you obviously have a mental problem, and since you have never been to nigeria who are you to tell me about nigerian people your nothing but a imperialist bastard, like i told you before, yes most nigerians tend to be dark but there are exceptions.
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^^
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Djehuti made a funny Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: Nollywood Rocks!
What exactly is your problem? She didn't sound like the way you typed it.
Also, are these Nigerians abberations?
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
^ What do you mean? Those are very regular Nigerian girls, to be honest. They are a representative sample of the population.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
pink checkered shirt? This is some funny sh1t. I like the part where they drive away in the black benz. Is this normal in Nigeria?
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: Nollywood Rocks!
What exactly is your problem? She didn't sound like the way you typed it.
Also, are these Nigerians abberations?
The one that they were mad at is obviously mixed and the leem fram leem girl in the pink looks Fulani.
Posted by nomorelies (Member # 16201) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: ^ What do you mean? Those are very regular Nigerian girls, to be honest. They are a representative sample of the population.
I was referring to Devil_Negro. According to this one, the only true West Africans are as dark as tar. Any light/brown skin ones are aberrations.
I guess the singer in this video is Ethiopian according to Devil_Negro.
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by nomorelies:
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: ^ What do you mean? Those are very regular Nigerian girls, to be honest. They are a representative sample of the population.
I was referring to Devil_Negro. According to this one, the only true West Africans are as dark as tar. Any light/brown skin ones are aberrations.
I guess the singer in this video is Ethiopian according to Devil_Negro.
Nice try lol I am West African and the only light skin people ANYWHERE in Africa are mixed unless they are yellow bastards which are far and few between. That is just fact *shrugs*
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
^ You don't know any facts about West Africa you silly idiot.
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by nomorelies:
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: Nollywood Rocks!
What exactly is your problem? She didn't sound like the way you typed it.
Also, are these Nigerians abberations?
The one that they were mad at is obviously mixed and the leem fram leem girl in the pink looks Fulani.
The yellowest girl in that video is 100% African though there are rumors she has a grandparent from Lebanon (do your research if you care to find out).
The girl you refer to as Fulani is probably Bendelite or Edo. Though in fact, she could be from anywhere in Nigeria.
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
Pics of a yellow ex- of mine, catching a tan.
She's 100% Benin and not at all "mixed". Now Devil, can you explain her yellowness???
Posted by Lord Sauron (Member # 6729) on :
Telling Tales are we?
My ex- is better than yours:
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: Pics of a yellow ex- of mine, catching a tan.
She's 100% Benin and not at all "mixed". Now Devil, can you explain her yellowness???
But she is not Yellow and she doesn't at all look mixed so I don't see your point.
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
If we're going to start arguing about what 'range' of fair skinned Africans can be called 'yellowish' then I'm afraid I'll have to check out.
There's no logical way to play that game. For example I know many people who are more of a yellow colour in a cold country but reddish-brown in Africa. Most people's skin colours morph based on the environment they happen to have spent a lot of time in, in the most recent.
Posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi (Member # 15898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: If we're going to start arguing about what 'range' of fair skinned Africans can be called 'yellowish' then I'm afraid I'll have to check out.
There's no logical way to play that game. For example I know many people who are more of a yellow colour in a cold country but reddish-brown in Africa. Most people's skin colours morph based on the environment they happen to have spent a lot of time in, in the most recent.
I agree but my point still remains light skinned non mixed Africans outside of North Africans/berbers are few and far between. And I don't think you disagree with this because you are African all these other clowns are white or Afro Americans who know nothing of African and has never been so I don't even take them seriously. You noticed the white boy King said Igbos are lightskinned lol so that shows you right there.
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
Based on MY OWN observations, over 20+ years:
In *MOST* parts of Nigeria, people who can be categorised as being in the 50 percent "lighter" side of the total range of human hue constitute to the human population in size varying from approx. 10% to 40% of population. The lower figures being among the Yoruba and neighbouring tribes and the higher figures being among the Hausa/Fulani and neighbouring tribes.
Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: Nollywood Rocks!
The yellow (igbo?) girl in that vid is HIGHLY smashable. The other girls look pretty good too.
Whats her name? Posted by nomorelies (Member # 16201) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by Herukhuti: If we're going to start arguing about what 'range' of fair skinned Africans can be called 'yellowish' then I'm afraid I'll have to check out.
There's no logical way to play that game. For example I know many people who are more of a yellow colour in a cold country but reddish-brown in Africa. Most people's skin colours morph based on the environment they happen to have spent a lot of time in, in the most recent.
I agree but my point still remains light skinned non mixed Africans outside of North Africans/berbers are few and far between. And I don't think you disagree with this because you are African all these other clowns are white or Afro Americans who know nothing of African and has never been so I don't even take them seriously. You noticed the white boy King said Igbos are lightskinned lol so that shows you right there.
I don't think anyone on this board were referring to light-skinned Africans as truely "yellow skinned", as these people don't exist ANYWHERE in high number. We are ALL referring to light-skinned (light brown) black people, which are found all over the globe, and certainly all over Africa. This is something understood right away amongst black people, and anyone else with common sense.
How could something as simple as this escape you? Oh yeah....you're not black. You only play one on the internet. Figures.
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
To wrap it up: in a place like Nigeria, the Western concept of race DOES NOT EXIST.
For Yoruba people who grasp the language, we understand that there are 3 human colours IDENTIFIED in our laguage, which are:
Dudu: Black kPupa(sp?): Yellowish/Reddish-Brown Foonfoon(sp?): White/Without-colour
However, to the average Nigerian, there are really only two ways to identify people by their skin colour and these are by dark skin or light skin. Most Nigerians are called Dudu, the others (from 10 to 40% of population) are referred to as kPupa. To us, skin colour is as relevant as your height. My point being, you're a million times more likely to make an enemy because of the tribe you belong to than because of your skin hue (or height).
Among Yorubas,
A dark skinned person is Dudu. A light skinned person is kPupa or Foonfoon/"Oyinbo".
(Foonfoon is used if percieved as "very white". Oyinbo is often used to identify *ALL* percieved foreigners with light skin tones, like a Beyonce for example - this I noticed is very annoying to "mixed race" folks). Fyi, expat black Indians working in Nigeria are seen as Dudu - which they are since their skin is very dark. There is no other criteria.
It's all very confusing and grey-area-ish for people used to "racial thinking" but that's exactly how it is. A blend of Yin and Yang.
Dudu Nigerian Babe kPupa Nigerian Babe kPupa Nigerian Babe (Mmmkay, her name is Nadua Buari - originally from Ghana with some Lebanese admixture)
^^The last two pics fall under the same hue category (kPupa) in Nigeria though one of the girls does have foreign admixture (i.e. an "Oyinbo").
So, Devil which one(s) of the girls is Yellow?
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
In Nigeria (among Yorubas and neighbours), this is Foonfoon or white or "Oyinbo proper".
Devil, is it all CLEAR now?
Posted by Herukhuti (Member # 11484) on :
And for those who falsely accuse YH of having a thing for white meat...
Pray tell how any of your accusations are true???
Posted by Obelisk_18 (Member # 11966) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Heru-Tunde: I don't understand people arguing about whether will smith should play the role of Taharqa because he isnt "darked skinned enough" now that is idiocy at its finest, afterall is better than a actor i.e vin diesel playing him, at the end of the day blacks can't get past colourism, and the effects of slavery is still at the helm of our culture, im happy that a black man like will smith with black parents is playing an egyptian pharoah, i'm a nigerian(yoruba) and theres many stereopypyes surrounding my tribe, especially from the outside, people beleive that every yoruba man is very dark, which is wrong because i myself am lighter than will smith(and have no immediate white lineage), but at the same time have people in my family as dark as morrris chesnut, or taye diggs. Africa is a big continent and has many variations putting everyone into 1 bracket is false ideology. And since when did movies get the exact tone of the actor playing the person right, afterall denzel washiton played malcolm x(even managed to look like him) and did the film justice.
If one wanted to be absolutely accurate, will smith is way outside of the range of the average Sudanese. Sudanese are the direct descendants of the ancient Kushites and most of them do NOT look like Will Smith. That is simply a fact. The only reason he is playing the role is because of his star power and the fact his production company will have a big part in it. This has nothing to do with any desire for absolute accuracy. Hollywood is not about science it is about entertainment.
Yeah you got a point..Will Smith's complexion is more like an Ethiopian's, Eritraens, or like most Ancient Egyptians..than a southern sudanese man.. But hey can't be caught up in technicalities all the time Djehuti..lol...just enjoy the damn movie Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
-------------------------------- Devil, is it all CLEAR now? --------------------------------
No wonder so many whites spend all of their waking hours obsessing and claiming Africans and the African diaspora. That's what baggy wrinkly ghostly skin will do to the psyche.
Pooooooo thangs. : )
HAHAHAHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Obelisk_18:
Yeah you got a point..Will Smith's complexion is more like an Ethiopian's, Eritraens, or like most Ancient Egyptians..than a southern sudanese man.. But hey can't be caught up in technicalities all the time Djehuti..lol...just enjoy the damn movie
Are you equating "Nubians" with "a southern Sudanese man"? If so, why?
Posted by Obelisk_18 (Member # 11966) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by Obelisk_18:
Yeah you got a point..Will Smith's complexion is more like an Ethiopian's, Eritraens, or like most Ancient Egyptians..than a southern sudanese man.. But hey can't be caught up in technicalities all the time Djehuti..lol...just enjoy the damn movie
Are you equating "Nubians" with "a southern Sudanese man"? If so, why?
Hey hey my man if I'm correct weren't the rulers of the 25th dynasty from deep within the Sudan..i.e. Upper Nubia (I know that's Northern Sudan instead of Southern Sudan lol) where the people are extremely dark skinned? But Nubians varied in complexion..even ancient ones..the ones from regions just south (Northern Lower Nubia) of Egypt were depicted in the same color as Egyptians. Is that not correct?
Posted by Akodumbo (Member # 16235) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi: There is not Yoruban than is lighter than Will SMith unless:
You can fool the Afro Americans on here with that crap, but not me buddy.
for years, the trolls debated the difference between devilnegrokiller_wolfi and a bucket of shiit. Then they realized its just the bucket.. Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by Obelisk_18:
Upper Nubia (I know that's Northern Sudan instead of Southern Sudan lol)
Exactly, and hence, my question.
quote: where the people are extremely dark skinned?
According to whom?
quote: But Nubians varied in complexion..even ancient ones..
You realize that this contradicts your citation immediately above, don't you?
quote: the ones from regions just south (Northern Lower Nubia) of Egypt were depicted in the same color as Egyptians. Is that not correct?
Yes, that would be correct; and this being the case, does it not contradict your earlier claim? Also, are you suggesting that people from the so-called "Upper Nubia" were never depicted in the same color as Egyptians?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Notice throughout this thread how MindoverMatter718 and the racist gook Djehuti agree with the fucked up racist's posts.
Notice how they never even attempt to refute the nonsense posted by DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi aka the white boy with pink blisters on his penis.
Hey MindoverMatter718 and Djehuti why are you agreeing with that sorry low self-esteem racist?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Hey DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi aka the white boy with pink blisters on his penis!
Heeeew Weeeee
With white weminns looking like they look, I see why you so desperately need for to make African Americans and Africans mixed or white.
LOOOOL! : )
pasty!
pasty!
pasty!
pasty!
pasty!
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
So much for the mythical lie that African Americans are mixed with whites. Because if they were they would have the same thick baggy course wrinkly skin those broads and DevilNegrokiller_Wolofi aka the white boy with pink blisters on his penis have.
Posted by JarHed (Member # 16254) on :
Does anyone else find argyle104's statement both incredibly racist and stupid?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Doesn't MindoverMatter718 sound like Yonis throughout this thread?
Posted by qoucela (Member # 13149) on :
I don't think one can neglect the recent findings of physical anthropologists. I recently posted this with relationship to ancient North AFrica which really puts the whole argument into perspective about North Africans and Egyptians.
Modern coastal Berber speakers (not including the Tuareg) have been shown to have little relationship to ancient prehistoric or pre- iron age North Africans. Thus within the last 3 years C. Loring Brace, N. Seguschi , Conrad Quintyn Sherry Fox and other renowned physical anthropologists analysed from around the world studied over 20 genetically-based craniofacial traits from popolations of Europe and North Africa and published the paper, "The Questionable Contributions of the Neolithic and Bronze Age to European Craniofacial Forms." The study published within the last 3 years found the relationship of modern Berbers of the coast (Tizi Ouazou, etc.) to be with modern Europeans or south Europeans and peoples of modern Iran/Iraq. Most importantly all of the latter showed almost no relationship to most mesolithic, neolithic and bronze age populations of Europe, North Africa and the Levant. The epipaleolithic Natufians on the other hand of the Levant had a surprising and unexpected but "clear link to sub-Saharan Africans" of Dahomey and other Niger Congo speakers. They said of Europe including Bronze Age Greece and Italy "the surprise is that neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants..." They also found the sample representing East Africans, i.e. Somali was closely related to Bronze Age and predynastic Egyptians, i.e. Naqada. More interestingly the Basques and Canary Island peoples showed no close relationship to the Berbers - contrasting with the anthropological myth being promoted on the web that Canary Island peoples were Berbers. Basques and Canary Island peoples however did show connection to modern northern Europeans. To quote the paper they said, "If this analysis shows nothing else it demonstrates that the oft repeated European feeling that the Cro-Magnons are 'us' is more a product of anthropological folklore than the result of the metric data available from the skeletal remains." Their study acutally confirmed other studies on genetic based skeletal and cranial traits that neolithic Africans of north Africa were essentially East African and that most Cro-Magnons and early Upper Paleolithic North AFricans were related and non - European in origin. Only a couple of groups in prehistoric Germany showed connection to modern Europeans and fair-skinned Berbers and Middle Easterners. Those studying dna haplotypes would do well to take heed of this information.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
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