I am leaving this once great website. It has become overrun by black afrocentric racist like morpheous, djenuti and whatabox. This website was at it's best when white nord, evil euro and other pro-white people were posting. I originally came here because some one I was debating keep copying and pasting all of your arguments so I decided to come here and deal with you all myself. I just can't take this afrocentric nutcasing anymore so I'm leaving the site.
Also I am not the "real" Arthur Kemp I thought I made that clear when I first started posting here.
Fairwell
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
Nice to see that we have broken your spirit, Kemp.
Beating down racists in debate is fun. Posted by TheAmericanPatriot (Member # 15824) on :
People like Morpheus deloight is calling anyone who does not agree with them a racist. In fact, they themselves are the real racist. This site is like a UFO or Haunted House site. It is remarkable how stupid grown, literate men can be when they become consumed by ideology. At first I woundered if this crazy, demented view of world history promoted by many here was a breakdown in our educational system. Since I do not run into it anywhere else it has to be considered an abberation.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
Anyone with common sense would call someone who uses racial slurs and posts racist cartoons a racist, Professor. You're a good one to talk about ideology considering the far-right lunacy you endorse such as Genetic Determinism. Don't think I've forgotten about your support for the theory that Blacks are intellectually inferior to Whites.
That's what this is all about. Most of the people who argue against a Black African Egypt do so because they have disparaging perceptions of Black people. Black Ancient Egyptians are inconsistent with their ideology.
Posted by TheAmericanPatriot (Member # 15824) on :
Morpheus, Some of the stuff posted here is among the most ignorant babble I have ever heard in my life. You know, the man in the insane asylum thinks the world is normal inside his own head. That is literally where many of you are on this board.
Posted by SirInfamous (Member # 16497) on :
We know you are not Arthur Kemp because the real Arthur Kemp is a complete retard.
farewell.
Posted by SirInfamous (Member # 16497) on :
AmericanPatriot,
Some of these posters are quite insane (Marc Washington and Clide Winters for example)
But some of the other ones..from what I can tell are pretty intelligent. Rasol, MindOverMatter, Charlie Bass, etc.
There are 2 types of "Afrocentrics"...the ones who think The Olmecs, Socrates, the Vikings, ancient Chinese, etc were all black.
And there are other ones that just realize there has been alot of bigotry in the history of Western scholarship (Today, this bigotry has faded tremendously of course, but just go read the stuff from the 19th century and you will see what I mean.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: Anyone with common sense would call someone who uses racial slurs and posts racist cartoons a racist, Professor. You're a good one to talk about ideology considering the far-right lunacy you endorse such as Genetic Determinism. Don't think I've forgotten about your support for the theory that Blacks are intellectually inferior to Whites.
That's what this is all about. Most of the people who argue against a Black African Egypt do so because they have disparaging perceptions of Black people. Black Ancient Egyptians are inconsistent with their ideology.
Black ancient egyptians? in your dreams!! I don't even know why somebody like him has to leave the forum because of a stupid racist person like yourself who sees everything black!! GET THIS: BLACKS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF ESTABLISHING AN ORGANIZED STATE!!! let a lone a civilization such as the egyptian one! you don't have to believe me, look at the hundreds of the african nations, what have they done?? "0" You aint got it... sorry!!
Posted by SirInfamous (Member # 16497) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: Anyone with common sense would call someone who uses racial slurs and posts racist cartoons a racist, Professor. You're a good one to talk about ideology considering the far-right lunacy you endorse such as genetic determinism Genetic Determinism. Don't think I've forgotten about your support for the theory that Blacks are intellectually inferior to Whites.
That's what this is all about. Most of the people who argue against a Black African Egypt do so because they have disparaging perceptions of Black people. Black Ancient Egyptians are inconsistent with their ideology.
I beleive in genetic determinism..to a certain level.
There have been studies that link Shyness, depression, IQ, to genetics.
Posted by TheAmericanPatriot (Member # 15824) on :
The fact that there is a lot of bigotry in the world, past and present, should not impact someone's view of scholarship. When you say there are posters here that are capable I would agree, many are. There is a difference between being capable in terms of literacy and adopting a crazy ideology. Almost none of these guys THINK like a historian. Most here are out to prove a point, historians are not. Most are seriously misguided on european history. I have heard some of the most outlandish views on this baord that i have heard anywhere. When Doug says western civ is 200 years old he puts himself in the same catagory as the guy who claims the moon shots were faked in Hollywood. These guys seriously believe that they are different from Stormfront but they are not. All we have is opposite ends of the same irrational racist extremism.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by SirInfamous:
I beleive in genetic determinism..to a certain level.
There have been studies that link Shyness, depression, IQ, to genetics.
I think it greatly depends on them
Posted by SirInfamous (Member # 16497) on :
he didn't say that so called Western Civilization is only 200 years old, he said that the notion of "The West" and their being a continuous "western civilization" is only around 200 years old.
Do you think the Romans called themselves "Westerners"??? Or thought they had anything in common with the illiterate people of the British Isles at the time? lol
Western Civilization is an arbitrary phrase. Did you know that the Western Allies in WW2 did not consider the Germans as "Westerners" and refereed to them as "Huns". They said that they were fighting to "save western civilization" against the "evil nazis". Meanwhile the Germans themselves said the same thing about the Soviets who they called "Inferior Eastern Hordes", and they thought they were fighting to "save the west" from the Perils of communism.
And NATO does not consider the Russians to be part of "the West".
So what exactly is "The west"?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Come-on Khempie, don't be like that. You came here full of White nonsense, and you got your ass kicked. Not by say-so, but by scientific fact, whether it be by data or artifact. So why don't you be the one White person who tells the truth, and admit it.
SirInfamous - who said that the Vikings were Black? Na, you can have them; to me they epitomize the White Race and its advancement.
Brutish, illiterate, talentless, ungroomed, White People, who murdered and stole everything that they ever had.
I believe that it's White people who claim that Socrates was half Black.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Come-on Khempie, don't be like that. You came here full of White nonsense, and you got your ass kicked. Not by say-so, but by scientific fact, whether it be by data or artifact. So why don't you be the one White person who tells the truth, and admit it.
SirInfamous - who said that the Vikings were Black? Na, you can have them; to me they epitomize the White Race and its advancement.
Brutish, illiterate, talentless, ungroomed, White People, who murdered and stole everything that they ever had.
I believe that it's White people who claim that Socrates was half Black.
And according to your people JESUS was black too!!
Posted by Kem Asaru (Member # 16815) on :
I am new to this forum, and from what i have read by Kemp, evil euro,and the likes, were debated,and basically smashed for what they truly are individuals who help to continue in the perpetuation of euro centric racism. and that is not ever too hard for a high school graduate to see. it would serve you people best if you follow Kemp's foot steps out the door? Because that game is over, and you should have realise that: But don't worry Storm front has a place at it's table for weak minded racist like you.
Posted by Kem Asaru (Member # 16815) on :
With his departure, the people rejoiced, and were dancing in the streets!
Posted by SirInfamous (Member # 16497) on :
quote:SirInfamous - who said that the Vikings were Black?
Marc Washington and Clyde Winters.
quote:Brutish, illiterate, talentless, ungroomed, White People, who murdered and stole everything that they ever had.
I consider myself White, every job application or test I'ven taken I mark the category "white". When I get a speeding ticket, the cop labels me as "white". My ancestors have nothing to do with the Viking raids or European colonialism, mine were Greeks. The people who built ancient Greece, the people who were at the core of the beautiful Byzantine Empire.
The same Greeks who admired ancient Egypt.
So don't put all whites on everything because many white ethnic groups have done nothing to other "peoples of Color". The Irish for instance, haven't done anything to anyone. And even they were discriminated against by Anglo types with all sorts of Pseudo scientific crap. ------------------------------------------------- "T"Scientific Racism" from an American magazine, Harper’s Weekly , shows that the Irish are similar to Negroes, and should be extinct!."
quote:I believe that it's White people who claim that Socrates was half Black.
Not Clyde Winters or Marc Washington
Posted by SirInfamous (Member # 16497) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kem Asaru: I am new to this forum, and from what i have read by Kemp, Evil Euro evil euro,and the likes, were debated,and basically smashed for what they truly are individuals who help to continue in the perpetuation of euro centric racism. and that is not ever too hard for a high school graduate to see. it would serve you people best if you follow Kemp's foot steps out the door? Because that game is over, and you should have realise that: But don't worry Storm front has a place at it's table for weak minded racist like you.
you can go to this forum and take him on in debate yourself if that's what you seek. He goes by "Racial Reality" there.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: This site is like a UFO or Haunted House site.
This is how you feel yet you still post here everyday! Says alot about you red neck. lol
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: And according to your people JESUS was black too!!
Lucky - Like I said to Khempie, we didn't kick his Ass with say-so, we kicked his Ass with FACT!!
I think that all agree that Jesus was a Hebrew, Right?
Well, this is what the Assyrians say that Hebrews looked like!!
I don't know, maybe I am a White hating Afrocentrist or something, but those people sure look Black to me.
Now I have a question for you.
Religiously, Jesus may have been the most important man in modern history.
Why are there no statues or paintings of him. I ask you, a White man, because Whites have had control of him and his religion, almost from the start. So why no pictures of him? The original White Church, the Catholic church, has authentic pictures (pictures done in the subjects own time), of everyone else, but not of Jesus and his disciples, what gives?
Does it have anything to do with why the Whites who control Islam won't allow pictures of Muhammad either? Posted by Kem Asaru (Member # 16815) on :
SirIfamous, i need not debate with your underling, because he has already recieved his just deserts, and i will give credit where it is due; he get's none for his childish antic behavior, and the same for his cronies; if the shoe fits than wear it.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
So you base your facts upon a poor Assyrian carvings?? this is silly, well according to the egyptian painting of the Hebrews they didn't look anything near blacks! and just because they made their hair and beard look as such that doesn't mean they were blacks... not a strong evidence! NOW i have a big questions for you... if you defeated the fact that blacks are less intelligent than other races could you tell me why they were often in captivity despite their big physique and strength? whether real blacks from Africa or "black jews" according to you and your above photos! also check this one out http://tehran.stanford.edu/Images/Ancient/soldier1.gif this is a Persian soldier ...go ahead and claim he was black!!!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lucky - I'll give you a FEW better.
I can't believe how you White People fall for your own Bullsh1t. I thought that was just to fool the ignorant Niggers.
Persian Kings.
Sassanian plates
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
hehehehe, you cracked me up! I am egyptian not white but i look Caucasian though. Again, the drawings/carvings you keep posting here are no evidence, that was their art style, it must have been easier to make the hair look like beads rather than long streaks. please look at their noses, i have yet to see a long nosed African person give it up!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: Morpheus, Some of the stuff posted here is among the most ignorant babble I have ever heard in my life. You know, the man in the insane asylum thinks the world is normal inside his own head. That is literally where many of you are on this board
I agree that there is lunacy from all sides on this board. But what lunacy are you associating me with?
I'm not the one supporting racist ideologies like you, Professor. You have babbled about race and IQ on here for years yet the one debate I saw you actually challenged on your views you got your ass handed to you.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Black ancient egyptians? in your dreams!! I don't even know why somebody like him has to leave the forum because of a stupid racist person like yourself who sees everything black!! GET THIS: BLACKS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF ESTABLISHING AN ORGANIZED STATE!!! let a lone a civilization such as the egyptian one! you don't have to believe me, look at the hundreds of the african nations, what have they done?? "0" You aint got it... sorry!!
Typical example of a racist lunatic. I haven't said anything racist yet you accuse ME of racism and then proceed to spout your racist nonsense.
I don't see everything in black. I'm a pretty normal person I just don't like racism and it is racist idiocy that led me to this board. I didn't care much about Ancient Egypt before I started reading all the racist crap on websites like Stormfront trying to say Blacks were incapable of creating civilization and intellectually as well a morally inferior due to genetics.
Egyptsearch is a great resource for establishing the fact that the Ancient Egyptians were indeed Black which spins your entire racist ideology on its head. And it's something that you cannot refute.
When you are prepared to show some integrity and accept the solid evidence presented for a Black African Ancient Egypt you are forced to rethink your views of the world and acknowledge the reality that European colonialism and not genetic inferiority is what has caused so much harm to Africa. Until then you will remain in constant denial and self-delusion believing that your racist ideology is that answer despite the evidence to the contrary.
quote:Originally posted by SirInfamous: I beleive in genetic determinism..to a certain level.
There have been studies that link Shyness, depression, IQ, to genetics.
Genes influence our intellect and behavior to a certain extent however Genetic determinism is the theory that our behaviors are hardwired (genetically determined) in such a way that they dictate our decisions.
The theory of a natural-born killer is an example of genetic determinism.
There are genetic pathologies that create disorders such as Down Syndrome which have a major effect on a person's life however genes that influence the inheritance of brain disorders and diseases represent a very small percentage in the variation of gene frequency among people.
The theory that the variation in physical characteristics around the world reflect evolutionary differences in mental capacities and behaviors is something entirely different and a theory that reflects the prejudice of the theorists rather than biological reality.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
SirInfamous - I hate to do this to you. But in the interest of historical accuracy I must.
Greeks were the ORIGINAL thieves of all things Black.
So have you ever really looked into Greek history?
From Wiki:
Greece was the first area in Europe where advanced early civilizations emerged, beginning with the Minoan civilization in Crete and then the Mycenean civilization on the mainland.
The building of Mycenae is generally agreed as a joint Cretan and Egyptian undertaking.
By 1200 BC the power of Mycenae was declining; during the 12th century, Mycenaean dominance collapsed. The destruction of Mycenae is part of the general Bronze Age collapse. Within a short time around 1250 BC, all the palaces of southern Greece were burned, including the one at Mycenae. This is traditionally attributed to a Dorian invasion of Greeks from the north
Continued: later overshadowed by Thebes and eventually Macedon, with the latter under the guidance of Alexander the Great uniting and leading the Greek world to victory over the Persians, to presage the Hellenistic era, itself brought only partially to a close two centuries later with the establishment of Roman rule over Greek lands in 146 BC. Many Greeks migrated to Alexandria, Antioch, Seleucia and the many other new Hellenistic cities in Asia and Africa founded in Alexander's wake.
Hellenes - (The times are pure White bullsh1t, but it serves to make the point)
The Proto-Greeks probably arrived at the area now referred to as Greece, the southern tip of the Balkan peninsula, at the end of the 3rd millennium BC. The sequence of migrations into the Greek mainland during the 2nd millennium BC has to be reconstructed on the basis of the ancient Greek dialects, as they presented themselves centuries later and is subject to some uncertainties.
There were at least two migrations, one resulting in Mycenaean Greece by the 16th century BC, and the second, the Dorian invasion, around the 11th century BC, displacing the Arcadocypriot dialects which descended from the Mycenaean period. Both migrations occur at incisive periods, the Mycenaean at the transition to the Late Bronze Age and the Doric at the Bronze Age collapse.
The subsequent mixture of Roman and Hellenic cultures took form in the establishment of the Byzantine Empire in 330 AD around Constantinople, which remained a major cultural and military power for the next 1,123 years, until its fall at the hands of Ottomans in 1453.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
bla bla bla
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lucky - That's not fair!!!
If I had known that you were one of those Lying, Race Confused, Ass-hole Turks like Hawass the-ass-hole, I wouldn't have bothered answering you. I have my pride you know, some are too low, for even me to be bothered with. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: bla bla bla
See what I mean?
Only a Lying, Race Confused, Ass-hole Turks like Hawass the-ass-hole, and yourself, would respond to a good-ole ass-kicking by the facts like that.
BTW - I assume that "bla bla bla" means; Yes great Black Master, whip my lying pale White ass some more - I enjoy it.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
You have pride?? where is that? if you are too proud of your nappy hair why do you guys shave it??? who is confused now? another thing, the difference between blacks and the rest of the civilized races is that you use vulgarity when it's not necessary and you must be crazy to think i will read your lengthy and boring nonsense.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^He he, is that the best that you can do? Mama, that mean Black man kicked my pale ass and called me names - Ba ha ha.
BTW - Which one had the long nose? Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: BTW - I assume that "bla bla bla" means; Yes great Black Master, whip my lying pale White ass some more - I enjoy it.
in year 2009 everything is possible after Obama became the president of the US. But i don't see you being my master...my royal egyptian genes don't think so either Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: BTW - I assume that "bla bla bla" means; Yes great Black Master, whip my lying pale White ass some more - I enjoy it.
in year 2009 everything is possible after Obama became the president of the US. But i don't see you being my master...my royal egyptian genes don't think so either
Take your royal turkic genes and move your blooo'clat! Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
You wish to have my genes i don't have to prove anything, but poor you are desperately looking for identity and sticking your nose where it doesn't belong! perhaps you should give thanks to Abraham Lincoln? Now go have some fried chicken and chase after big white women Posted by TheAmericanPatriot (Member # 15824) on :
None of this posted art work has any value in esstablishing any scholarly point.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Hey AP, He he, even Simple girl manages to say why.
Come-on now, for Mikey, please say why you didn't like the pretty pictures that he posted.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
^ you're a jackass mike. Even TAP has a point there.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Hey AP, He he, even Simple girl manages to say why.
Come-on now, for Mikey, please say why you didn't like the pretty pictures that he posted.
Why you don't answer my questions?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You wish to have my genes i don't have to prove anything, but poor you are desperately looking for identity and sticking your nose where it doesn't belong! perhaps you should give thanks to Abraham Lincoln? Now go have some fried chicken and chase after big white women
I'll never understand you trolls.
Answer me this question. Why do you accuse other people of being racists and then turn around and start making racist comments? That's hypocrisy.
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: None of this posted art work has any value in esstablishing any scholarly point.
Are you interested in having a scholarly discussion now, Professor?
Why don't you go to the other thread then and respond to the historiographical essay that I posted?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: ^ you're a jackass mike. Even TAP has a point there.
When are you White boys - and your Turk lapdog, going to understand that you need EVIDENCE!!
I doesn't matter what you say! You have to be able to back it up with EVIDENCE, like I do!
Crying about mean Black men doesn't cut it either, but I know that won't stop you from crying, because that is all that you can do - while I destroy your made-up history.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
eeet more cheeken Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: I'll never understand you trolls.
Answer me this question. Why do you accuse other people of being racists and then turn around and start making racist comments? That's hypocrisy.
It's projection.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: It's projection.
Yep good call.
By now I should accept the fact that some people are just crazy and do things that don't make sense but I have a habit of treating everyone like they have a rational mind.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Cheekeen and walamelon go fix your english first and say "ask" instead of "aks" and let's have a conversation it's very hard to have a debate when you use bad language and pronounce the words backwards! what do you think Jamal? any educashawn? oh wait a minute.... isn't Jamal an Arabic name?
Posted by caitlin (Member # 16803) on :
kemp check your other post, please do not leave, i would love for you to stay and chat.
why you so aggressivve in life, you need to chill out and release your tension, you very hyped, causing arguments and distress amongst a community, move away form your desk and get a life, stop wearing your fingers out and do something useful, GET ME A DRINK.
i was too bored to read your other crap, i am sorry you prob think woman are all thickos, oops i am,lol,you prop think we should stay in house all day, but one thing is sure i bet I GOT YOU WORKED UP, MAYBE HOT UNDER THE COLLAR.
PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE I WAS ONLY GETTING STARTED, THOUGHT ABOUT JOINIMG BNP? I WILL IF YOU WILL?
GO ON DARE YOU TO RESPOND TO ME------
Posted by caitlin (Member # 16803) on :
COME ON GUYS CALM IT DOWN, WE ARE ALL ADULTS, OR ARE WE?
REMEMBER TO NOT HURT ANYONE AND DO NOT THROW STONES,
YOU CAN NVER CHANGE ANOTHER PERSONS VIEW, EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHILL OUT OR I WILL LOOSE MY TEMPER, SHEDDER THE THOUGHT.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
What's amusing to me about the Chicken and Watermelon insult is that racists actually think it offends us. I mean who doesn't like chicken and watermelon? Is that supposed to hurt my feelings, saying I like a certain type of food?
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: What's amusing to me about the Chicken and Watermelon insult is that racists actually think it offends us. I mean who doesn't like chicken and watermelon? Is that supposed to hurt my feelings, saying I like a certain type of food?
Actually you people like to make jokes of things to make them look/sound not offensive everyone knows this psychology! now when you eat chitlins, racoons and possums, hell yea this is nasty as hell!!! I would like to add, see how much slurs and crap you used here against egyptians and whites and see how white people are responding to you??? the complete opposite... aren't you ashamed of yourself now???? they are much calmer and they sure killed you with their kindness, didn't they? Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Actually you people like to make jokes of things to make them look not offensive everyone knows this psychology! now when you eat chitlins, racoons and possums, hell yea this is nasty as hell!!! I would like to add, see how much slurs and crap you used here against egyptians and whites and see how white people are responding to you??? the complete opposite... aren't you ashamed of yourself now???? they are much calmer and they sure killed you with their kindness, didn't they?
Comments like this make me suspect that you are mentally ill.
I didn't and have never used slurs against anyone. I'm not a racist like you.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
You're not racist?? i thought the whole thread was about you and your buddies!!!!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^ A Camel Humpin Turk, who takes the moniker of a Sicilian-born American mobster - you KNOW this boy has identity and projection issues.
Charles "Lucky" Luciano (born Salvatore Lucania; November 24, 1897 – January 26, 1962) was a Sicilian-born American mobster. Luciano is considered the father of modern organized crime and the mastermind of the massive postwar expansion of the international heroin trade. He was the first official boss of the modern Genovese crime family.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^ A Camel Humpin Turk, who takes the moniker of a Sicilian-born American mobster - you KNOW this boy has identity and projection issues.
Charles "Lucky" Luciano (born Salvatore Lucania; November 24, 1897 – January 26, 1962) was a Sicilian-born American mobster. Luciano is considered the father of modern organized crime and the mastermind of the massive postwar expansion of the international heroin trade. He was the first official boss of the modern Genovese crime family.
somebody is mad!! read about the Sicilian history and the influence of the Arabs and the northern Africans (non blacks )http://www.grifasi-sicilia.com/arabsnormans.html Oh, even if i was turk i would have been to proud, Turks have a very great history and they always ruled they conquered most of the world! something to be proud of Also you must know that the word "MAFIA" is Arabic.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You're not racist?? i thought the whole thread was about you and your buddies!!!!
This thread is about Kemp being butthurt over losing his debates to myself and others. He knows when he's been beat.
Accusing us of racism is nothing but projection.
I'm not the one using racial slurs and posting racist cartoons.
I haven't made a single racist comment on this board and if I have provide a link and quote.
You on the other hand are an attention whoring troll who makes racist comments every chance they get.
"Chicken and Watermeelllllon!!!! "
Loser.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Attention whoring like chrome rims and ugly loud music in the street??? do you people have any kind of intelligence? don't mess with my EGYPT i leave you alone!! search for identity somewhere else!!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
You rely on stereotypes and generalizations because you cannot criticize a person for something they've actually done.
Racism is a collectivist mindset. You try to make others feel inferior about themselves because in reality you are insecure about yourself as a person.
Who is messing with your Egypt? Egypt and its history don't belong to you.
There are Egyptians on this board who identify as Black and agree with the research being posted here.
If you do not agree with the research then try to refute it in a civil manner. Acting like an immature asshole doesn't get you anywhere. Your antics aren't bothering me. To me you're just a clown. Someone to be pointed and laughed at, never to be taken seriously until they grow up and dispense with their childish behavior.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: You rely on stereotypes and generalizations because you cannot criticize a person for something they've actually done.
Racism is a collectivist mindset. You try to make others feel inferior about themselves because in reality you are insecure about yourself as a person.
Who is messing with your Egypt? Egypt and its history don't belong to you.
There are Egyptians on this board who identify as Black and agree with the research being posted here.
If you do not agree with the research then try to refute it in a civil manner. Acting like an immature asshole doesn't get you anywhere. Your antics aren't bothering me. To me you're just a clown. Someone to be pointed and laughed at, never to be taken seriously until they grow up and dispense with their childish behavior.
Man how can i take you seriously if you carry your master's last name????? a** hole is civil, yes maybe in your people's book! and what research?? done by black scholars?? naaaah, thank you
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
How do you know Morpheus has a slavemaster's last name? For all you know he could have an African surname.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Man how can i take you seriously if you carry your master's last name????? a** hole is civil, yes maybe in your people's book! and what research?? done by black scholars?? naaaah, thank you
Stop acting like a racist asshole and I'll stop treating you like one and calling you one.
Plenty of research posted on Egyptsearch has been done by White scholars. Like I said if you disagree with it provide counter sources. But noone is going to respect some racist clown who trolls the board desperately seeking attention.
I couldn't care less about what you think of me. I only care about the opinions of people I respect.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
I don't seek attention, i'm egyptian, i carry egyptian passport and the name of the board is "EGYPT search" not "Shquel and Shameeka search" i belong here NOT you!!! Now when you start running good posters off here then you need to know what time it is. Now, A** hole is a name calling, we all know how low you are while you're trying hard to portrait yourself as somebody you're not! You people are lairs and bunch or crying babies, you give yourself all the rights in the world to disrespect people and when someone puts you in check they are automatically racist!! grow up!
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Morpheus,for everyone of these loser trolls^^ that leaves we gain five.and yes Egypt is yours Kemet was not if you are hell bent on de-Africanizing them and making them into Amau...and chicken I can't get enough of it(boycotting KFC though)...Watermellion I thought they grew that fruit in Kemet and Egypt...and polyrytheme sound beats single wind note and a tambourine any day. And TO Kemp I SAY WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG.BTW shaved heads that's a very Black thang see Kemites and Massai and numerous folks all over AFRICA.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: I don't seek attention, i'm egyptian, i carry egyptian passport and the name of the board is "EGYPT search" not "Shquel and Shameeka search" i belong here NOT you!!! Now when you start running good posters off here then you need to know what time it's. Now, A** hole is a name calling, we all know how low you are while you're trying hard to portrait yourself as somebody you're not! You people are lairs and bunch or crying babies, you give yourself all the rights in the world to disrespect people and when someone puts you in check they are automatically racist!! grow up
What's wrong, did I strike a nerve?
The only crybaby here is you. Take responsibility for your actions for a change.
I am calling you an attention whore and an asshole because that is what you are. You behave a certain way and you are going to get a certain response.
For an Egyptian you sure do sound like a typical White American racist.
"Chicken and Watermelon!!!!!! "
Are you sure your passport doesn't have a bald eagle on it? Maybe you've been hanging out on too many White Supremacist message boards.
If you really are an Egyptian you should stop making a fool of yourself acting like a White racist. White racists think that modern Egyptians are the mongrelized descendants Nordic Pharaohs with Semites and Negroids and that Egypt is a 3rd World country because modern Egyptians are less intelligent than their ancient ancestors.
Is that the type of people you look up to?
Pathetic.
Get a grip on reality.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lucky Luciano - When Umayyad Caliph Umar II (reigned 717-720), foolishly decreed that his discontented mawali (non-Arab Muslims) should be placed on the same footing with all true Arab Muslims, without respect to nationality. This decree allowed Turks, Greeks, and other Eurasians to fully assimilate into the Muslim brotherhood.
With that, he unknowingly placed all that the Black civilizations in North Africa and the middle east, had ever created, in the hands of your people. (As you know, your people would soon usurp the Arabs and take their identity, just as you try to steal the identities of the Berbers, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, and Persians.
Even after their fall, Blacks continued to invent and excel. They created the Gun for you. They created the Steam Engine for you. They created the Windmill for you. They created Gun powder for you (India).
But yet your people couldn't figure out how to properly use these things. It would be hundreds of years before your full-White brethren in northern Europe would be able to figure it out, and start their "Industrial revolution".
In the meantime, because your people could not figure out how to use the gifts of the Black man, your people continued to decline. Today Egypt cannot feed itself, and depends on aid from other countries to survive. The same would be true for ALL the former Black Empires if it were not for OIL!
Turkey - the one case where your people call themselves by their TRUE name. Cannot gain acceptance in the EU because it is considered too backward. Ya, I love what you have done with all that the Black man has given you.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: I don't seek attention, i'm egyptian, i carry egyptian passport and the name of the board is "EGYPT search" not "Shquel and Shameeka search" i belong here NOT you!!! Now when you start running good posters off here then you need to know what time it's. Now, A** hole is a name calling, we all know how low you are while you're trying hard to portrait yourself as somebody you're not! You people are lairs and bunch or crying babies, you give yourself all the rights in the world to disrespect people and when someone puts you in check they are automatically racist!! grow up
What's wrong, did I strike a nerve?
The only crybaby here is you. Take responsibility for your actions for a change.
I am calling you an attention whore and an asshole because that is what you are. You behave a certain way and you are going to get a certain response.
For an Egyptian you sure do sound like a typical White American racist.
"Chicken and Watermelon!!!!!! "
Are you sure your passport doesn't have a bald eagle on it? Maybe you've been hanging out on too many White Supremacist message boards.
If you really are an Egyptian you should stop making a fool of yourself acting like a White racist. White racists think that modern Egyptians are the mongrelized descendants Nordic Pharaohs with Semites and Negroids and that Egypt is a 3rd World country because modern Egyptians are less intelligent than their ancient ancestors.
Is that the type of people you look up to?
Pathetic.
Get a grip on reality.
Look who is talking about insecurity Ignorant, you wouldn't even know what's like to be an Egyptian! you can type and carry on, the whole world respects us and they know who we are, millions of people come to Egypt and love us as people not as history!!, we contribute a lot to this world's knowledge, people like Ahmed Zweil, Farouk Elbaz, Mostafa Mosharafa, Magdy Yaacub, Mostafa elsayed and many many more who are living prove of the continuation of our genius ancestors and they are NOT blacks!! i can also say that i can walk safely at night in places like St. Petersburg without being afraid of getting killed. I dare you can live anywhere else in the world!! your feelings would be hurt every day!!!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Ignorant, you wouldn't even know what's like to be an Egyptian! you can type and carry on, the whole world respects us and they know who we are, millions of people come to Egypt and love us as people not as history!!, we contribute a lot to this world's knowledge, people like Ahmed Zweil, Farouk Elbaz, Mostafa Mosharafa, Magdy Yaacub, Mostafa elsayed and many many more who are living prove of the continuation of our genius ancestors and they are NOT blacks!! i can also say that i can walk safely at night in places like St. Petersburg without being afraid of getting killed.
I've never heard of them. The only Egyptian the average American has heard of is Anwar Sadat. We're very Americentric over here.
But you need to work on your reading comprehension. I was not insulting modern Egyptians I was telling you what White racists whom you emulate think of modern Egypt.
I'm sure that there are plenty of productive Egyptians just as there are African-Americans.
But the question is what kind of person are YOU?
You troll internet message boards spewing racist garbage. That doesn't make you look like a good person at all. It makes you look like an immature racist asshole.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Again you use this "Racist" word a lot, you wore it out!!!! You never heard of "Ahmed Zewail"??the winner of the 1999 Nobel prize in chemistry?? i bet if he was black you'd have known him! but too bad you guys can't go that far anyway! http://www.zewail.caltech.edu/
I don't keep up with Nobel Prize winners. I doubt the average American does. Perhaps that was a big thing for Egyptians. If so good for you but there's your insecurity streak rearing its ugly head again.
Why do you feel the need to insult Black people and tell them what they can't do? African-Americans have been told they couldn't do this and that for decades and have consistently proved the White racist establishment wrong to the point where that establishment was destroyed and now even the office of the President of the United States, the most powerful position in the world has been proven to be obtainable by African-Americans.
Yes, I called you a racist and I'm going to keep calling you a racist until you stop making racist comments and apologize for your degenerate behavior.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Apologize?? MAYBE when hell freezes over? You lie about my ancestors you need to apologize big time. And you don't keep up with prize winners because you're busy digging in racial issues and cause your feelings to get hurt. YOU proved you could do what? run for the office and become a president?? are you stupid??? Obama became president because of the white voters!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
I haven't made up any lies about your ancestors. If you disagree with the research I've posted go ahead and try to refute it. This message board welcomes open discussion.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: I haven't made up any lies about your ancestors. If you disagree with the research I've posted go ahead and try to refute it. This message board welcomes open discussion.
You already know you are full of lies, none of what you've represented so far is considered as a solid evidence, you rely on pictures and black scholar's researches and attack those who prove you're wrong like Zahi Hawas, he is a well respected archeologist go ahead and discredit him.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Unlucky luciano,you show up on this board defending a white supremecist who post pics of a fellow human being lynched and burn to DEATH to the cheers of white people standing around and he himself was gloating about it...that's the kind of people you want to share idology with? remember this and remember it well..if you are the lightest possible Egyptian...to them you are unworthy and suspect of having in their mind of having nigroid genes to be cleansed when the time is right.In our community we have extremely light-skinned folks such as Walter White...who went undercover and infiltrate kkk meetings 47 times..because he knew that if the core of the kkk had it's way back in the 30tes he along with his darker skinned brothers would be lynched,burned or returned to slavery.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: YOU proved you could do what? run for the office and become a president?? are you stupid??? Obama became president because of the white voters!
He won because he worked hard to become a successful politician and when the opportunity presented himself put together a brilliant campaign to win the election. It's quite an accomplishment to be as successful as he's been.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You already know you are full of lies, none of what you've represented so far is considered as a solid evidence, you rely on pictures and black scholar's researches and attack those who prove you're wrong like Zahi Hawas, he is a well respected archeologist go ahead and discredit him.
Zahi Hawass hasn't proven anything. He's only given his opinion.
The scholarly research we've presented is solid evidence. Just because you refuse to accept it doesn't change that fact.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Unlucky luciano,you show up on this board defending a white supremecist who post pics of a fellow human being lynched and burn to DEATH to the cheers of white people standing around and he himself was gloating about it...that's the kind of people you want to share idology with? remember this and remember it well..if you are the lightest possible Egyptian...to them you are unworthy and suspect of having in their mind of having nigroid genes to be cleansed when the time is right.In our community we have extremely light-skinned folks such as Walter White...who went undercover and infiltrate kkk meetings 47 times..because he knew that if the core of the kkk had it's way back in the 30tes he along with his darker skinned brothers would be lynched,burned or returned to slavery.
You narrow minded people don't understand that i'm not defending the white race here i'm sure they can defend themselves, i didn't see any white supremest comments here yet, the only racial remarks and slurs i saw were from you people! i'm here because i'm sick and tired of you relating yourself badly to Egypt and making up lies, now if you have a very low self esteem for being black and think the whole world is out to get ya including "white racists" it's not my fault, maybe you can change that??
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Boys, you haven't been listening.
Lucky wants us, and the rest of the world, to accept his (and the Turks in general) assumption of the North African and middle eastern Black identities, but without calling them Black.
In their warped minds, the fact that they are directly traceable to Central Asia is of no consequence. They are in Egypt, so therefore they ARE Egyptian. He, like Hawass is a sicko, ignore him, like he conveniently ignored my last post.
Got Ya Camel Humper - ya can't get away from that, can you.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Camel humper is better than to look like an ape isn't? Keep it up, i got more, don't you cry ok?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
I did not say you are defending the white race...but you are in fact defending a white supremicist...I count amongst my friends people who are white,people who are Asian of all sorts,people who are Arabs and light skinned Amazight and Dark skinned Africans of all types including Egyptians light and dark...as for me..I am not relating myself to Egyptians or Kemites but I am relating Kemites to Africans in general,I am quite satisfied maybe too self-satisfied with my local Jamaican culture..but I am a cultural tourist and I do investigate cultures that is African and cultures that are non African...after-all I am currently residing in Japan.As far as African cultures go the more I study the more I find common links through the contintent including Kemet.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: I did not say you are defending the white race...but you are in fact defending a white supremicist...I count amongst my friends people who are white,people who are Asian of all sorts,people who are Arabs and light skinned Amazight and Dark skinned Africans of all types including Egyptians light and dark...as for me..I am not relating myself to Egyptians or Kemites but I am relating Kemites to Africans in general,I am quite satisfied maybe too self-satisfied with my local Jamaican culture..but I am a cultural tourist and I do investigate cultures that is African and cultures that are non African...alter-all I am currently residing in Japan.As far as African cultures go the more I study the more I find common links through the contintent including Kemet.
Good for you...just keep Egypt out of it!
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lucky Luciano: said>Good for you...just keep Egypt out of it!
That's Impossible you can't separate Kemet from the rest of Africa It is hardly possible to do so in the case of modern Egypt. and if you mean modern Egypt well yes I can oblige you.. but cannot do so interms of Kemet. A people with a fully intergrated inter-African culture.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lucky Luciano - Just curious.
When your people go to the Museum in Cairo, an see statues of people like these. How does your minds rationalize that you are the same as them?
What I mean, is that they don't look anything like the Turkic Fool at the bottom. So how do your people handle it?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
How about Gabon? or Kenya? they have the same skin tone and facial features as you.. Please look here: http://media.photobucket.com/image/ramses%20mummy/rach169/RamsesII.jpg does he look like you? he doesn't look like a black man to me black man with a straight hair like James Brown Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^I show you life-like statues, and you show me a dried up Mummy of who-knows-who, and you claim that he looks like you? Okay fine by me, you look like a dried up Mummy. But the statues look like me! Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Just to respond to the photos you just posted, again no prove, as i have seen many white Americans, and many Asians specially Philippinos have flat noses and big lips, you see the same features almost in all races, also don't forget that some of them in early dynasties married their own siblings, what you may think is a clear evidence to you could be a birth imperfection! and quite frankly i don't see any black features in any of those pictures!! those are PICTURES of STATUES, NOT DNA!!!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
He he, Okay.
But you are still not out of the woods yet.
How about the DNA that proves that you are a Turk, and that the Turks came from Central Asia in the early part of the current era.
I mean that your people couldn't be in BOTH places at the same time. Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
If you can prove i'm Turk than i will be as proud, anything but black!!
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Why are people wasting time arguing with a nut Like luciano.
He is about as clueless as simple girl. Calling those statues of Ancient Kemet non black is some of the dumbest things I have heard on Egyptsearch. You can't take these people seriously. I guess this pic is also Non African:
Really people who look at African Statues and claims them as non-African are just fooling themselves. I have never heard statues of Africans being called any thing but Africans only on this forum. Pathetic.
Peace
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Mike I found out while pics can assist the willfully blind will refused to see,so it's better to combine that with culture...Lucky explain the Ws Secpter found in Kemet and all over East Africa...the Head rest found in Kemet and all over Africa...The King as rainmaker found in Kemet and all over Africa..the reverence for Cattle found in Kemet and all over Africa...where was God's land lucky...where was the lands of the ancestors...where was Kemet's first nome what was it called where was it located?? on what continent is and where is..the basis of Mdu NTR to be found. Why are Kemites Tropically adapted? what does that mean anyways?
Oh one more thing you are right some Asians do share such features but the only thing is Kemet was not in the Phillipeans.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Mike I found out while pics can assist the willfully blind will refused to see,so it's better to combine that with culture...Lucky explain the Ws Secpter found in Kemet and all over East Africa...the Head rest found in Kemet and all over Africa...The King as rainmaker found in Kemet and all over Africa..the reverence for Cattle found in Kemet and all over Africa...where was God's land lucky...where was the lands of the ancestors...where was Kemet's first nome what was it called where was it located?? on what continent is and where is..the basis of Mdu NTR to be found. Why are Kemites Tropically adapted? what does that mean anyways?
You can use this bologna with your own people...Keep searching for identity, you people are not standing on a solid ground and you're doubting your own belief. Pictures, pictures and more pictures, boring! please prove with a crucial scientific evidence that EGYPT was black!
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Man you are lucky...(pun intended)that I cannot post pic...so if any of you fellas out there please throw up aome pics of the ws-secpter,and others found all over east Africa..and also the head rests common in kemet and the rest of Africa..I know DJ has some but anyone else will do. And lucky I told you before i have an identity...I AM JAMAICAN Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Why are people wasting time arguing with a nut Like luciano.
He is about as clueless as simple girl. Calling those statues of Ancient Kemet non black is some of the dumbest things I have heard on Egyptsearch. You can't take these people seriously. I guess this pic is also Non African:
Really people who look at African Statues and claims them as non-African are just fooling themselves. I have never heard statues of Africans being called any thing but Africans only on this forum. Pathetic.
Peace
That's because the forums you go to are BROTHAS Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Man you are lucky...(pun intended)that I cannot post pic...so if any of you fellas out there please throw up aome pics of the ws-secpter,and others found all over east Africa..and also the head rests common in kemet and the rest of Africa..I know DJ has some but anyone else will do. And lucky I told you before i have an identity...I AM JAMAICAN
More pictures??? This is funny as hell Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Take your bloodclat to Uzebekistan my Turky Luciano! Take it there right now...
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: If you can prove i'm Turk than i will be as proud, anything but black!!
He he, Okay Lucky.
But a final thought before I sign off:
If you look like Hawass or any other Turk in Turkey, North Africa, or the middle east. You are maybe 1/2, 1/4, 1/8/, 1/16 Black. So what do you say to your father, grandfather, greatgrandfather etc?
In case you don't know, un-mixed Turks are just as White as the Albinos in the North. See Turk below.
So like it said, what do you say to your fathers? He he.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Lucky Luciano
The forums I go to is about FACTS. You waste your time attacking Blacks on this forum. The more you attack, the more come and put you into your place. You think because you come from Egypt you can tell blacks to leave Egypt alone? Your as shameful and as much of a loser like Kemp. If you know anything about Ancient Kemet, tell me what these FACTS mean to you:
Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture
Christopher Ehret Professor of History, African Studies Chair University of California at Los Angeles
Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots.
The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt.
Sir Alan Gardiner: These were long-headed-dolicocephalic is the learned term-and below even medium stature, but Negroid features are often to be observed. Whatever may be said of the northerners, it is safe to describe the dwellers in Upper Egypt as of essentially African stock , a character always retained despite alien influences brought to bear on them from time to time." (pg. 392; Egypt of the Pharaohs 1966)
X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980).
Courtesy of James Harris and Edward Wente:
In terms of head shape, the XVIV and XX dynasties look more like the early Nubian skulls from the mesolithic with low vaults and sloping, curved foreheads.The XVII and XVIII dynasty skulls are shaped more like modern Nubians with globular skulls and high vaults.
The people who bear the greatest resemblence to the ancient Egyptians, at present, are the Nubians; and next are the Abyssinians; page 530
Edward Lane Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians
The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)..... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). Sonia Zakrzewski (2003)
"On the Origin of the Egyptians. Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North." Mary Lefkowitz
Now tell the forum how these FACTS are wrong or right.
Peace
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
Not that I believe you're actually interested in our research because I know you're just a troll but I'll give you the oppurtunity to respond to these sources.
Check out this essay and provide counter sources for anything you disagree with:
Yes more pics but in this case you can't casually play subjective blindness as it involves cultural objects not what you think one race may lool like vis a vis another.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Black junk please guys listen to this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEbMbAuAgmU i've got to work in the morning, you can sit here and argue with yourselves because this is what you're all good at, talk and talk, and live off welfare!! DREAM ON Good night and don't let the SCARAB bite your black asses Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
Lucky Luciano where do u think Humans come from. Do u agree with science when they say all Humans come from Africa/Blackafricans. If historians,egyptologist,lingustics,and other academics come to the conclusion that Ancient Egypt was a African civilization why would u be offended by that do u have a problem with africans.
Risalat mufakharat al-sudan 'ala al-bidan
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Like this Luciano Much better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvcaHj8sGJw and iam willing to bet that quite a few folks here are in Uni,Got well paid Jobs,or own their businesses Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Their descendents:
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: bla bla bla
See what I mean?
Only a Lying, Race Confused, Ass-hole Turks like Hawass the-ass-hole, and yourself, would respond to a good-ole ass-kicking by the facts like that.
BTW - I assume that "bla bla bla" means; Yes great Black Master, whip my lying pale White ass some more - I enjoy it.
some Questions for you mike:
If the ancient egyptians were black then why there were no civilization as ancient egypt except in egypt!! why it did not appear in Sudan or Ethiopia or even central AfricA! I think the clam that ancient Egyptians were Africans does not make in sense under the shadow of the above question. Another thing I wanna talk about is Jews. We all know from Torah(old testament) and Islam that prophet Moses was Black but however prophet Joseph was White ,they are both Jews of the same original father Jacob(Israel)now does this prove that Jesus or anyone was Black?! You must distinguish between Blacks and Africans Another thing that Prophet Abraham married and Egyptian woman and got his son the prophet Ismael and look now at the Arabs now most of them are white-like but some of them are Black for (no offense her I respect Black and Africans) some of them were slaves but got their freedom with Islam ,so does this prove that the Arabs have African origins?! No ,it does not .
Peace
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
The ancient Egyptians:
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Posted by Malenko (Member # 16646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Man how can i take you seriously if you carry your master's last name????? a** hole is civil, yes maybe in your people's book! and what research?? done by black scholars?? naaaah, thank you
Stop acting like a racist asshole and I'll stop treating you like one and calling you one.
Plenty of research posted on Egyptsearch has been done by White scholars. Like I said if you disagree with it provide counter sources. But noone is going to respect some racist clown who trolls the board desperately seeking attention.
I couldn't care less about what you think of me. I only care about the opinions of people I respect.
The guy isn't an Egyptian. He is bogus. His posting style is similar to Dirk/White Nord. I dont see why Brada is crediting him with being 'Egyptian'. Its a common white racist dodge to pretend to be 'native Egyptians' supposedly 'concerned' about 'Afrocentrism.' You can clearly see it on Stormfront and on Matilda's blog - the steady round of bogus 'Egyptians.' No one is being fooled by this crap. He needs to take a break from the Internet, go outside. I'm sure his trailer park smells lovely in the morning. Maybe he can get his brain fixed in the process. Apparently the warranty has run out.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Hey AP, He he, even Simple girl manages to say why.
Come-on now, for Mikey, please say why you didn't like the pretty pictures that he posted.
Now I think the pics does not establish facts, for example how you that the hair in the pics is actually their hair?! why not Baroque Hair or wigs! Difficult Question eha? Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Sudan:
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Ahmad,I know the question was directed at Mike
If the ancient egyptians were black then why there were no civilization as ancient egypt except in egypt!! why it did not appear in Sudan or Ethiopia or even central AfricA!
Are you saying you never heard of the finds at Kerma making it the oldest city in all Africa including Egypt, or the finds at Sai island..in terms of Ethiopia you have urban living going way back before the rise of Axum.and lets not forget much of what we don't know still lays buried under-sands and undergrowth awaiting escavation-on the other side of West Africa you have an urban civilization going back 3000yrs In the area of Timbucktu you have a civilization going back 2500yrs or more that could rival any found in mesopotamia.i can expand later if you wish.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
AHH Melenko you maybe right I sometime forget that this is the internet and not everyone is who and what they say they are. my bad if he is not Egyptian.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Ahmad,I know the question was directed at Mike
If the ancient egyptians were black then why there were no civilization as ancient egypt except in egypt!! why it did not appear in Sudan or Ethiopia or even central AfricA!
Are you saying you never heard of the finds at Kerma making it the oldest city in all Africa including Egypt, or the finds at Sai island..in terms of Ethiopia you have urban living going way back before the rise of Axum.and lets not forget much of what we don't know still lays buried under-sands and undergrowth awaiting escavation-on the other side of West Africa you have an urban civilization going back 3000yrs In the area of Timbucktu you have a civilization going back 2500yrs or more that could rival any found in mesopotamia.i can expand later if you wish.
I heard of this! but why was not as great as in Egypt eh? why did not influence others? why there were no trade between them?! are not the Africans in your theory should the cousins of Ancient Egyptians!? so why the ancient Egyptians did not leave a single witness that they know their cousins?!
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
The same question could be posed for Europe, Asia and the Americas.
Technological civilisations arise then their ideas are diffused to surrounding areas. It's the same for all the continents.
For example, there was the early Greek civilisation(600 BC onwards) whose ideas gave birth to Roman civilsation--which in turn diffused ideas to the babarian heartland of Europe--which occupies a relatively small land area. The Congo is bigger than mainland Europe.
The same for vast Asia which witnessed the Harrapan civilisation then the Sinoid East Asian culture. The rest of Asia simply adopted the ideas of those civilisations to lesser or greater degrees; and in some cases not at all.
Do the same exercise for the Americas.
Posted by caitlin (Member # 16803) on :
guys this getting personal,that is not nice, i am a lonely 30 year old woman, poor and defensless, please stop it, i get hurt when people fight.
i persume you are grown up and not like children, then grow up. it is like listening to children in playground.
know it a serious subjuct, BUT FACE IT SINCE THE BEGINING OF TIME THEIR HAS ALWAYS BEEN RACISTS AND THIS WILL NEVER CHANGE.
racism is not just about white against black, jewish racitsts against muslims, pakinstanis against bangeldeshies. the list goes on.
do not debat with a racist you are giving them what they want a reaction,
stop throwing stones at each other,someones gome may get broken.
be nice or i may get angry
Posted by caitlin (Member # 16803) on :
YOU ARE IGNORING ME, NOW BOYS IF I FLASHED SOME LEG WOULD YOU RESPONS.
MIKE11 - AM I THE SIMPLE GIRL,
WELL COME ON FIGHT LIKE A MAN AND STOP HIDING BEHIND SCREEN, DO YOU WONDER WHO WOULD WIN,
GIVE IT UP GUYS------------------GET A LIFE----YOU MUST HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO,
Posted by caitlin (Member # 16803) on :
HEY THE YOUNG GUY AT TOP OF PHOTOS HE KINDA CUTE,
IF I SAID I LIKE FOREIGN MEN,WOULD I GET A REACTION. THE NOBIANS PERFECT SKIN, NOT QUITE PURE AFRICAN LOOKS BUT LIKE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS. I DREAM OF SUCH A NOBIAN MAN
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malenko: The guy isn't an Egyptian. He is bogus. His posting style is similar to Dirk/White Nord. I dont see why Brada is crediting him with being 'Egyptian'. Its a common white racist dodge to pretend to be 'native Egyptians' supposedly 'concerned' about 'Afrocentrism.' You can clearly see it on Stormfront and on Matilda's blog - the steady round of bogus 'Egyptians.' No one is being fooled by this crap. He needs to take a break from the Internet, go outside. I'm sure his trailer park smells lovely in the morning. Maybe he can get his brain fixed in the process. Apparently the warranty has run out.
I suspected as much. This is the internet after all. As I implied earlier he's just a little too familiar with White racist lingo.
Whether he is Egyptian or not he is definitely a troll trying to get a reaction out of people.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Caitlin,calm down!! the tone of the conversation is changing no need to be a woman and fight like a man.
@ Ahmad,very few civilizations was as great as Kemet,China the Inca,Rome and classical Greece. but the fact is they did exist non the less. And as far as influence goes those in Africa did influence other parts of Africa..but you need to take the time and study them indepth...as far as Kemet and trade relations go It was posted right here on E/S possibly on the Egyptology section that the land of Yam lay far to the west.Again I don't think people treat African civilizations on it's own terms...It's like if Africans didn't stormed into the Mediterraean then they are not worthy of mention. Kemet,Kush,Axum,the Moors are all considered because they pick fights with people outside Africa...but Africans who happends to live futher away do not get press inspite of the fact that some of these Civilizations had a land mass that approached the size of continental United States.
As far as the Kemites being cousins to other Africans look at it this way before the Sahara dried up the people living there formed a more or less uniformed culture at about 5000b.c the Sahara when through a dramatic clamatic change perhaps in one persons life time...some traveled south towards the Niger others went towards the Nile valley and a few creazies stayed put some settled in communities in what is now Sudan others moved futher north..they would be joined by people comming from the high-lands of what is now Ethiopia..all coaleasting to from the Nile Valley culture that streached from the delta right up to the Ethiopian Kenyan border and beyond and with cultural ties straight across the Sahara and south to the River Niger. because it was the pre-Sahara that was one of the cultural incubators of Ancient Africa...from more detailed info. check-out the conversations taking place on the Egyptology side of the board.
Posted by caitlin (Member # 16803) on :
i was not going to fight like a man, may have said it, please just humour me. i would have to hit with my handbag or how i like to fight, throw my bag on the floor, cry alot and use my demure frame to win the man over.
at least you talking to me.
please stop boring me with this conversation and find me a lovely nobian guy for upper egypt.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: bla bla bla
See what I mean?
Only a Lying, Race Confused, Ass-hole Turks like Hawass the-ass-hole, and yourself, would respond to a good-ole ass-kicking by the facts like that.
BTW - I assume that "bla bla bla" means; Yes great Black Master, whip my lying pale White ass some more - I enjoy it.
some Questions for you mike:
If the ancient egyptians were black then why there were no civilization as ancient egypt except in egypt!! why it did not appear in Sudan or Ethiopia or even central AfricA! I think the clam that ancient Egyptians were Africans does not make in sense under the shadow of the above question. Another thing I wanna talk about is Jews. We all know from Torah(old testament) and Islam that prophet Moses was Black but however prophet Joseph was White ,they are both Jews of the same original father Jacob(Israel)now does this prove that Jesus or anyone was Black?! You must distinguish between Blacks and Africans Another thing that Prophet Abraham married and Egyptian woman and got his son the prophet Ismael and look now at the Arabs now most of them are white-like but some of them are Black for (no offense her I respect Black and Africans) some of them were slaves but got their freedom with Islam ,so does this prove that the Arabs have African origins?! No ,it does not .
Peace
Can't any of you think clearly - you all ask the stupidest questions - AND show a pathetic ignorance of the subject matter. I have already had my fun with the Idiot Lucky, that's enough for me.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Tina Kamal,Tigerlilly....somebody could you please escort ms thang to the Love and marriage section of the board..Caitlin wants to hookup with a Nubian...thanx. Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: bla bla bla
See what I mean?
Only a Lying, Race Confused, Ass-hole Turks like Hawass the-ass-hole, and yourself, would respond to a good-ole ass-kicking by the facts like that.
BTW - I assume that "bla bla bla" means; Yes great Black Master, whip my lying pale White ass some more - I enjoy it.
some Questions for you mike:
If the ancient egyptians were black then why there were no civilization as ancient egypt except in egypt!! why it did not appear in Sudan or Ethiopia or even central AfricA! I think the clam that ancient Egyptians were Africans does not make in sense under the shadow of the above question. Another thing I wanna talk about is Jews. We all know from Torah(old testament) and Islam that prophet Moses was Black but however prophet Joseph was White ,they are both Jews of the same original father Jacob(Israel)now does this prove that Jesus or anyone was Black?! You must distinguish between Blacks and Africans Another thing that Prophet Abraham married and Egyptian woman and got his son the prophet Ismael and look now at the Arabs now most of them are white-like but some of them are Black for (no offense her I respect Black and Africans) some of them were slaves but got their freedom with Islam ,so does this prove that the Arabs have African origins?! No ,it does not .
Peace
Can't any of you think clearly - you all ask the stupidest questions - AND show a pathetic ignorance of the subject matter. I have already had my fun with the Idiot Lucky, that's enough for me.
pathetic racist
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Tina Kamal,Tigerlilly....somebody could you please escort ms thang to the Love and marriage section of the board..Caitlin wants to hookup with a Nubian...thanx.
*escorts caitlin to Marriage and Relationships section*
Posted by madame f (Member # 9410) on :
What is your point in trying to prove that Ancient Egyptians were 'black'?
I see those sculptures and reliefs and statuettes not to be any different than modern Egyptians. Who btw have many different types of skin color.
Just because someone has curly hair, brown skin and a big nose doesn´t make him to be 'black' in the african traditional sense, not that I have something against that.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Wharrup dawg!!. my name is Tyron Johnson and i'm Egyptian Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: HI. my name is Tyron Johnson and i'm Egyptian
rofl Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by madame f: What is your point in trying to prove that Ancient Egyptians were 'black'?
I see those sculptures and reliefs and statuettes not to be any different than modern Egyptians. Who btw have many different types of skin color.
Just because someone has curly hair, brown skin and a big nose doesn´t make him to be 'black' in the african traditional sense, not that I have something against that.
If you really can't figure that out, why not stick to knitting?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
No, she is just using her common sense, that's all Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
what the hell does it MATTER whether Ancient Egyptians were black white or sky blue pink anyway??
As Madame f says, they were black, white, and brown just like they are now, the further south the darker they were and the further north the lighter they were, surely that is common sense.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: No, she is just using her common sense, that's all
your efforts are all in vain Posted by caitlin (Member # 16803) on :
still being ignored but going to search the love section, thank you girls for escorting me, in desp need of that nobian man,
drat just got rid of one so they may never touch me.
but at least the convesation on this topic is not as vicious,
Posted by Nefarla (Member # 16832) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kemp: I am leaving this once great website.
that you help deteriorate
quote: It has become overrun by black afrocentric racist like morpheous, djenuti and whatabox. This website was at it's best when white nord, evil euro and other pro-white people were.
overrund by eurocentric racist...
[QUOTE]posting. I originally came here because some one I was debating keep copying and pasting all of your arguments so I decided to come here and deal with you all myself. I just can't take this afrocentric nutcasing anymore QUOTE]
you have lost
Also I am not the "real" Arthur Kemp
nobody cares.
Fairwell
Posted by Kem Asaru (Member # 16815) on :
You guys are "ridiculous" continuing to feed into this obviously illiterate fool! he is a pacified pale Arab boy who is trying to cloak himself off as a Egyptian. he is not worth it. so-called white people could care less about you or your people, you are their ponds.
be done with him!
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Ahmad, aren't ya having fun? That question you asked him none of them are able to answer, they can't answer any intelligent questions, they only post pictures and talk crap, just like what Sudanya posted photos about Sudan and people from Nuba , try now google anything about Egypt you will get tons of stupidity blacks have flooded the internet with, things like "when we ruled" and "black kings" and bologna like this, they try to twist the history and contaminate it with false allegations. Please you people watch the ten commandments, try to picture another black actor instead of Yul Brynner, he made that movie worth watching because he sure looked and carried himself like a pharaoh! http://mikeytherhino.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/yul_brynner_in_the_ten_commandments_film_trailer.jpg Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: what the hell does it MATTER whether Ancient Egyptians were black white or sky blue pink anyway??
As Madame f says, they were black, white, and brown just like they are now, the further south the darker they were and the further north the lighter they were, surely that is common sense.
That is a foolish lie or the words of the hopelessly IGNORANT!
If you two are going to run your mouths, why not at least look into the facts first. Womanhood is no excuse for stupidity.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: what the hell does it MATTER whether Ancient Egyptians were black white or sky blue pink anyway??
As Madame f says, they were black, white, and brown just like they are now, the further south the darker they were and the further north the lighter they were, surely that is common sense.
That is a foolish lie or the words of the hopelessly IGNORANT!
If you two are going to run your mouths, why not at least look into the facts first. Womanhood is no excuse for stupidity.
Maybe if you show FACTS people will be glad to look at them, FACTS to you and your people = NOTHING to us
Posted by Kem Asaru (Member # 16815) on :
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Ahmad, aren't ya having fun? That question you asked him none of them are able to answer, they can't answer any intelligent questions, they only post pictures and talk crap, just like what Sudanya posted photos about Sudan and people from Nuba , try now google anything about Egypt you will get tons of stupidity blacks have flooded the internet with, things like "when we ruled" and "black kings" and bologna like this, they try to twist the history and contaminate it with false allegations. Please you people watch the ten commandments, try to picture another black actor instead of Yul Brynner, he made that movie worth watching because he sure looked and carried himself like a pharaoh! http://mikeytherhino.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/yul_brynner_in_the_ten_commandments_film_trailer.jpg
yes luck,some people here are of the most stupidest people in history. you know what luck,it is envy! Posted by *Tinker* (Member # 16147) on :
"modern human diversity was derived entirely from Africa"
I enjoyed the pictures though thanks... oh and bye bye whoever is leaving.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: what the hell does it MATTER whether Ancient Egyptians were black white or sky blue pink anyway??
As Madame f says, they were black, white, and brown just like they are now, the further south the darker they were and the further north the lighter they were, surely that is common sense.
That is a foolish lie or the words of the hopelessly IGNORANT!
If you two are going to run your mouths, why not at least look into the facts first. Womanhood is no excuse for stupidity.
and manhood is?
which part is a 'foolish lie' in your opinion, the fact that the more south you get the darker Egyptians are and the more north you get the lighter they are, or the fact that it doesnt bloody well MATTER anyway?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Ayisha and Madame f - The issues are rather simple and direct. We have been engaging in this banter with the simpletons only for fun. Serious people would not ask those silly questions or make those silly claims. So since you do, that must mean that you are not serious people.
I will demonstrate:
As to skin color: The equator is the embarkation point. If everybody stayed where they evolved, then as you get closer to the equator, the darker the people would be, and as you move away (on both sides), then the lighter people would become. The problem is, people never stay where they began, so you have dark and light people all over the place. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, White is NOT an option.
Once again I will demonstrate:
As you can see from the tomb painting above, Egyptian farmers typically were in the fields SHIRTLESS!!
How long do you think a White man, with his pale, melanin depleted skin, would last in the Egyptian climate shirtless?? 3 months? 6 months? for sure NOT a year.
So are you beginning to see just how silly and thoughtless your statements were? No studies were needed, no scientist needed to make a proclamation, all that was needed was the all too Uncommon - common sense!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kemp: I am leaving this once great website. It has become overrun by black afrocentric racist like morpheous, djenuti and whatabox. This website was at it's best when white nord, evil euro and other pro-white people were posting. I originally came here because some one I was debating keep copying and pasting all of your arguments so I decided to come here and deal with you all myself. I just can't take this afrocentric nutcasing anymore so I'm leaving the site.
You are definitely a lunatic!
quote:Also I am not the "real" Arthur Kemp I thought I made that clear when I first started posting here.
Of course not, because racist idiots like you are too scared and/or too stupid to use your own name or come up with a name of your own.
quote:Fairwell
And good riddance!
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
He is racist and idiot because he put you in your place??? get lost and leave this forum!!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^^ ROTFLMAOH
Put ME in my place??! When and where??!!
You are probably crazier than HE is to say such a thing! The moron has been debunked and refuted countless times since he entered this forum!
Do YOU want to be next?!! Apparently you do!
Bring it on!
We have destroyed and humiliated countless racists before Kemp, and no doubt we will do the same to many more ass long as fools like YOU show up! Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
There is no way in hell YOU can humiliate me, because you only know one word "RACIST" you need to be more creative, before you even think to talk to me go brush your nasty teeth from the chitlins you've been eating at lunch Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LMAO
First of all, I think of ALOT more words for YOU than just "racist"!
Second of all, what's with the "chitlins" thing??!
LOL Is that suppose to be some racist joke?? I'm not even black and even if I was are you saying all blacks eat chitlins??! That's one of the dumbest things I have ever heard!
That's like me telling you to brush your teeth from all the capicola cuz you're Italian! Get your dumbass outta here! LOL Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
aren't you the only one who is laughing at your own jokes? your're not black, if you've got some balls tell everyone what are you then? Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Ayisha and Madame f - The issues are rather simple and direct. We have been engaging in this banter with the simpletons only for fun. Serious people would not ask those silly questions or make those silly claims. So since you do, that must mean that you are not serious people.
I will demonstrate:
As to skin color: The equator is the embarkation point. If everybody stayed where they evolved, then as you get closer to the equator, the darker the people would be, and as you move away (on both sides), then the lighter people would become. The problem is, people never stay where they began, so you have dark and light people all over the place. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, White is NOT an option.
Once again I will demonstrate:
As you can see from the tomb painting above, Egyptian farmers typically were in the fields SHIRTLESS!!
How long do you think a White man, with his pale, melanin depleted skin, would last in the Egyptian climate shirtless?? 3 months? 6 months? for sure NOT a year.
So are you beginning to see just how silly and thoughtless your statements were? No studies were needed, no scientist needed to make a proclamation, all that was needed was the all too Uncommon - common sense!
well Mike thanks for the demo but isnt that pretty much what I said, although I included 'white' but if you want to be picky there are actually no 'white' people anywhere on the planet but varying shades of pink. As I said the further south you go the darker they get, I assumed that you knew that going south in Egypt would bring you nearer the equator so didnt think I needed to mention it, and the further north the lighter they get, BUT you still didnt explain WHY it MATTERS. oh and further north is cooler so they wouldnt all be out working with no shirts on up there Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: aren't you the only one who is laughing at your own jokes? your're not black, if you've got some balls tell everyone what are you then?
First of all, regular members of this forum know what ethnicity I am! I'm ASIAN
Second of all, IT DOESN'T MATTER!! Because TRUTH IS TRUTH no matter what someones ethnic background is. And the truth is ancient Egypt is indigenous i.e. BLACK African!! This is supported by ALL the FACTS!
But of course only an idiot racist like yourself couldn't comprehend this would you-- because your entire life is dominated by 'racial' thinking and prided through FALSE racial supremacy! Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
I bet you're half breed or you wouldn't have been here on this board, that or your boyfriend is black get out of here you're no good SOB! Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Nope! I'm 100% Asian! I don't have a boyfriend cuz I'm a dude and not gay! And as usual idiot trolls like yourself love to resort to ad-hominem attacks and attacking the messanger instead of tackling the actual argument which you know you can't!!
You see people, 'Lucky Luciano' is just mad that we debunked his white supremacist friend 'Arthur Kemp' and now he's leaving the forum!
Again, Luciano you are welcome to try your 'luck' here by taking Kemps place! But don't be surprised if you end up leaving in tears like he did! Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
I wonder what finally broke Kemp. He quit after our exchange in his thread where he declared victory for Whites racists in this whole debate.
I think I embarrassed him when I exposed the fact that he was recycling comments from other messages boards!
It's always fun to witness these guys quitting the board in defeat. As I recall what finally broke Evil Euro was Charlie Bass's emails to Charles Loring Brace. Euro did not have the courage to email Brace himself to find out if his interpretation of his research was valid. He knew he would get exposed if he did.
That's how you handle these racist trolls. You have to challenge them to back up their claims. They know they look foolish when they can't and often they can't take it.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Leaving in tears? you gotta be kidding me, you probably don't know who your ancestors are and you came here because your daddy is black and you want a piece of Egypt too Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
man this place is confusing! who are the racists? are they the ones saying Ancient Egyptians were black or the other lot? Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
All the freaking minorities without tags on them are the racists! rejects and they unload their frustration here to boost their low self esteem!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ What do you mean "without tags"?? Also, you are definitely nuts if you think I have "low self-esteem" or am "racist" for acknowledging a FACT of culture and history!
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Leaving in tears? you gotta be kidding me, you probably don't know who your ancestors are and you came here because your daddy is black and you want a piece of Egypt too
LOL I'm betting I know waay more about my people and ancestors than YOU do about yours!! And again I'm not black or of African ancestry! One does not need to be to acknowledge the FACT that Egypt was black African, you moron!
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
whatever brotha Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: It's always fun to witness these guys quitting the board in defeat. As I recall what finally broke Evil Euro was Charlie Bass's emails to Charles Loring Brace
What thread was this debate in?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
hhmmm well just from this page im seeing you not living up to your name lucky, surely you're not saying they weren't black? Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: man this place is confusing! who are the racists? are they the ones saying Ancient Egyptians were black or the other lot?
I think you if stick around and read people's post objectively you will be able to separate the racists from the Egalitarians.
A racist is someone who disrespects other people because of their racial or ethnic background.
Disagreeing that the Ancient Egyptians were Black doesn't make you a racist in and of itself.
Claiming a certain group is inferior or hurling racial insults makes you a racist.
Mike and I agree that the Ancient Egyptians were Black but Mike is clearly a racist as evidence by his camel humping Turk and anti-White comments.
You will never see me disparage another person because of their race.
Another poster named Masreyya on the other hand believes that the modern Egyptian population is reflective of the Ancient population being neither Black nor White but a more varied society. I've never seen her make any racist comments.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
. Morpheus - I admit it, you are good, I am not.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: man this place is confusing! who are the racists? are they the ones saying Ancient Egyptians were black or the other lot?
I think you if stick around and read people's post objectively you will be able to separate the racists from the Egalitarians.
A racist is someone who disrespects other people because of their racial or ethnic background.
Disagreeing that the Ancient Egyptians were Black doesn't make you a racist in and of itself.
Claiming a certain group is inferior or hurling racial insults makes you a racist.
Mike and I agree that the Ancient Egyptians were Black but Mike is clearly a racist as evidence by his camel humping Turk and anti-White comments.
You will never see me disparage another person because of their race.
Another poster named Masreyya on the other hand believes that the modern Egyptian population is reflective of the Ancient population being neither Black nor White but a more varied society. I've never seen her make any racist comments.
Is this the verdict? hallelujah Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: What thread was this debate in?
I can't find the thread where Evil Euro actually quit because the format of the site has been changed around breaking some of the old links.
But here is a thread where Bass posts an email between himself and Brace. You can see Evil Euro scramble for an answer.
Eventually he was challenged to ask Brace himself but never did. Shortly after he disappeared from the site fleeing back to Dienekes.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Since Obama took office the scum of the earth have been purchasing guns in record numbers across the USA. Some, among the scum, like Kemp and Luciano are flocking here to lash out.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Since Obama took office the scum of the earth have been purchasing guns in record numbers across the USA. Some, among the scum, like Kemp and Luciano are flocking here to lash out.
I must have said something to turn your stomach Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^No not yet.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Do you want me to start?
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^Buddy I know for a fact you DON'T want me to.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Relax, Apocalypse. His stomach will turn once we smack his sorryass the way we did his friend 'Kemp'! Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
I don't think Lucky is capable of carrying a debate anywhere near an academic level. He's just a troll.
Posted by TheAmericanPatriot (Member # 15824) on :
Morpheus, I do not think anyone is going to mistake you for Carl Sagan, isn't it like the pot calling the kettle black? If not conversing on an academpc level makes someone a troll you, Djehuti and Apocalypse need to find yourself a spot under the bridge.
Posted by madame f (Member # 9410) on :
The people in the Ancient Egyptian thread who claim to be so informed are ignorant to see that they have been blinded by American world view of how to divide people into "black" and "white".
Nobody ever said that Ancient Egyptians were "white" in the Scandinavian sense! And nobody said that they were "black" in the Kongo sense of that word.
The world is not just black and white!!!!
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: What thread was this debate in?
I can't find the thread where Evil Euro actually quit because the format of the site has been changed around breaking some of the old links.
But here is a thread where Bass posts an email between himself and Brace. You can see Evil Euro scramble for an answer.
Eventually he was challenged to ask Brace himself but never did. Shortly after he disappeared from the site fleeing back to Dienekes.
Is Brace a geneticist?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
This board is being hijacked by low lives who want to impose their twisted point of view on the rest of the civilized world, IT WILL NOT WORK, keep fighting hard you have a lot to prove, i don't have to prove ANYTHING, when you come across a regular white American average Joe person in places like Barnes and Nobel try to tell them Egypt was black and see how he would look at you. GOD forbids if he looks at you funny or laughs at you, he will then be "RACIST" we all know about the race card, everyone is familiar with it. Just to show you the difference between me and pathetic individuals like yourselves, as far as the US government's concerned i'm not even a minority!! surprise!!! yes, you heard right, as an egyptian i don't fall under the minority category, that means the government gives you grants, loans, public assistance, food stamps and what have you, Egyptian Americans don't qualify for any type of financial assistance not that we need it! yet we see you all on the street under the bridges, jobless, homeless, sell drugs, big ass wrap sheets and busted without a penny to your names!! Lazy as all get out, do you honestly believe that Ancient Egyptians built this great history if they had an iota of residue of genes similar to yours???? hell NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! We are on the other hand as Egyptians here in the States, doctors, engineers, scholars, scientist, business owners, even cab drivers in NYC but at least we all work hard and we contribute to this country's success and pay for your welfare while you sit on your ass and argue here on this site.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
This is my favorite: "professor" Gates, Obama's buddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwwfWa-Yz4U&feature=related Bunch of retards, get a clue enough whining and start doing something useful! Adios for now. Oh i'm not quitting yet, just no point of arguing with no good losers like you people!! go bang your heads against the wall now..
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: Morpheus, I do not think anyone is going to mistake you for Carl Sagan, isn't it like the pot calling the kettle black? If not conversing on an academpc level makes someone a troll you, Djehuti and Apocalypse need to find yourself a spot under the bridge.
At the very least if you are going to make a claim about an academic subject you should be able to provide a reliable source that supports your statements. That is what we have done time and time again. Some of us have even gone as far as to email scholars and ask them questions to confirm that we are interpreting their work correctly.
quote:Originally posted by madame f: The people in the Ancient Egyptian thread who claim to be so informed are ignorant to see that they have been blinded by American world view of how to divide people into "black" and "white".
Nobody ever said that Ancient Egyptians were "white" in the Scandinavian sense! And nobody said that they were "black" in the Kongo sense of that word.
The world is not just black and white!!!!
Who are you calling ignorant? It's not nice to generalize.
If you want to get technical what we are debating is the range of physical characteristics the Ancient Egyptian people possessed, their population affinities as well as the geographic origin of their culture. We can put up pictures of modern people to illustrate our point. A picture is worth 1000 words. Terms like Black and White tend to vary according to one's definition. But you'll have to forgive us for using words common in everyday speech in order to communicate our point.
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Is Brace a geneticist?
Brace is a biological anthropologist. Here's his bio:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: HI. my name is Tyron Johnson and i'm Egyptian
rofl
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
You know what.. i have absolutely have no problems with JEWS (HEBREWS) they have a great culture and we share a big part of our history, it's sickening to hear those clowns saying they were blacks!!
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Dumbass did not even follow the logic. Even with the Tyrone quote,
No wonder racists are stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You know what.. i have absolutely have no problems with JEWS (HEBREWS) they have a great culture and we share a big part of our history, it's sickening to hear those clowns saying they were blacks!!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Of course. Remember the recent studies that show racists have low IQs. It sure explains a lot of things about these trolls. Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
I do think this person is Dirk,he trys to deflect from the conversation by trying to bring up poverty or esteem issues...he thinks affects only AAs I am waiting for him to post some so-called anti- Afrocentric out dated comments from some Black wanna be right wing commentators.
We are on the other hand as Egyptians, Jamaicans,Pakistanis,African Americans,Nigerians,Chinese,Somalians,Cambodians here in the States, doctors, engineers, scholars, scientist, business owners, even cab drivers in NYC but at least we all work hard and we contribute to this country's success and pay for Lucky Luciano welfare while he sit on his ass and TROLL here on this site.
To the folks who always said it dosn't if the Egyptians were Black or White,I say you dont know or study historgraphy...why historians wrote what they wrote.there was a time when influancial historians and ethnologist...took every civilization they could find in Africa weather high or low and ascribed them to white or outside influence...then turned around and posed the most ridduclious question where is the civilizations of the negroes..Ethnographers did the samething whatever people they found attractive or with what they considered good qualities they ascribed to Whites or out side influences and hardly any Black people escaped that not even the most bashed and scorned Kongolese...Why?.. The Kongo once had a high civilization that sent ambassadors to Rome and Portugal in the late Middle ages and early renaissance periods. The Civilizations of Kemet,Kush,Axum was high on their list of places to whitened or de-nigrified...Kush is intresting in that they would alternatively switch them from Black to white depending on the situation they were in...if for example they were storming through Kemet all the way to Palestine and beyound they would be white or white influenced...if they were bounded captives then they were Negroes. Now unfortunatly this type of thinking still persist in some form or another in Egyptology just not as obviously outlandish. So folks this is what we argue against,
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Brada-Anansi
Great post.
Let me just say that people Like Luciano are a dime a dozen. They rant out of fear.
They are afraid of Black people so they attack them any chance they get behind the safety of there computers. Black people have been influential in society and the mainstream being looked on as Inferior. They are afraid just how they would change society being looked on as people who did create the greatest civilization known to man.
Insulting blacks makes them feel better about themselves and since they live in Africa, they want to be looked upon as being apart of Africa but not being looked as apart of Black Africa.
No one should get angry at any thing a person Like Luciano says because he is just a sad person who knows deep down that Egypt is part of Black Africa. All you do is just post FACTS and watch them as they jump around like dogs failing to refute it.
Peace
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Ahmed, what is your excuse for Queen Tiye's sculpture?
Posted by TheAmericanPatriot (Member # 15824) on :
It is not valid as we have her mummy and it looks nothing like the sculpture
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
Queen Tiye's mummy:
Her fathers mummy:
Her mothers mummy:
Both had fine European-like hair. No way the bust is a realistic representation of her in actual life. It is either a forgery, A later representation of what she was thought to maybe of looked like, or a funerary tribute offering from Nubians perhaps, that had never seen her.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: It is not valid as we have her mummy and it looks nothing like the sculpture
What distinctions do you see between the mummy and the sculpture that you feel rationalizes this comment?
The shape of the face looks very similar to the bust. The bust was also made during her lifetime which suggests that the facial thickness and skin color is a reliable indicator of her living appearance.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: What distinctions do you see between the mummy and the sculpture that you feel rationalizes this comment?
The shape of the face looks very similar to the bust. The bust was also made during her lifetime which suggests that the facial thickness and skin color is a reliable indicator of her living appearance. [/QB]
In what way do you perceive the bust as resemblng tha actual mummy? Even the nose and lips don't seem to be as wide as the nose and lips of the bust considering it has been wrapped with bandages. They both seem rather narrow considering that fact. Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Why are people speculating on what the Mummy would look like alive, when we have experts who told us who the mummies mostly resembled for everyone to read:
James Harris and Edward Wente conducted an x-ray analysis of the New Kingdom royal mummies with the results published in their book X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). Included in the work were cephalograms of Pharaohs of the XVII-XX Dynasties and their queens.
First identified as Queen Tiye The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism.
The Elder Lady possesses an occipital bun comparable to Mesolithic Nubians.
Now we have real studies simple comparing the Elder Lady to Nubians. What do you have in your studies that states that the Elder lady was a non-African? Stop with the stupid eyeball witness.
Peace
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Is Brace a geneticist?
Brace is a biological anthropologist. Here's his bio:
Then he like Keita offers nothing but opinion and nothing more. No scientific evidence to back it up.
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: In what way do you perceive the bust as resemblng tha actual mummy? Even the nose and lips don't seem to be as wide as the nose and lips of the bust considering it has been wrapped with bandages. They both seem rather narrow considering that fact.
Consider that the mummy's pretty shriveled up.
The problem with your approach is that you are unscientifically eyeballing a mummy and taking note of only a few traits. That is not the proper way to determine a skeleton's biological affinity. You need to take lots of measurements of many different features to more accurately assess that kind of affinity.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Simple Girl
You of all people should not be talking about people who give scientific evidence. When people ask you to prove your points you turn tail and run, only to come back repeating the same tired foolishness.
You don't offer anything but your eyeball witness to what you think you see in an unpainted statue or a mummy portrait. Now what do you have to counter what was said in the X-Ray studie of the mummies?
Peace
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Dumbass did not even follow the logic. Even with the Tyrone quote,
No wonder racists are stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You know what.. i have absolutely have no problems with JEWS (HEBREWS) they have a great culture and we share a big part of our history, it's sickening to hear those clowns saying they were blacks!!
Prove your intelligence please, post some more photos Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Then he like Keita offers nothing but opinion and nothing more. No scientific evidence to back it up.
Huh? Do you think that DNA is the only body of evidence we can use to assess the Ancient Egyptian's biological affinities?
Keita and Brace have both studied the skeletal remains of the Ancient Egyptians. They have plenty of scientific evidence to back up their claims. I'd recommend that you read their studies rather than making such ill-informed comments.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Simple Girl
You of all people should not be talking about people who give scientific evidence. When people ask you to prove your points you turn tail and run, only to come back repeating the same tired foolishness.
You don't offer anything but your eyeball witness to what you think you see in an unpainted statue or a mummy portrait. Now what do you have to counter what was said in the X-Ray studie of the mummies?
Peace
I'm not sure what mummy or mummies they actually x-rayed. Was this one of them?
This mummy doesn't appear to have much if any prognathism or a receding chin for that matter. My brothers best friend is of German descent with red hair and very fair skin and has prognathism and a recessed chin. Are you saying this mummy has prognathism and a recessed chin? Are you suggesting that white people can't possibly have prognathism and a recessed chin?
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by sudaniya:
Ahmed, what is your excuse for Queen Tiye's sculpture?
of course she does not look like an African at all this is one typical faces in Egypt today. btw,why do u think that sculptor were so perfect in creating them! why do not u consider the possibility that the sculptor was not so accurate(which is indeed under the light of the mummy's photos)again pics do not prove anything about the roots of the Egyptians ,only genes are able to solve such an issue
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Morpheus
What do you expect from Simple?
She is the eyeball witness queen. She never comes with scientific data, and when presented in front of her face, she turns tail and runs. Really you should not expect her to do anything more then post a statue and claim that "It looks European". That is her scientific fact. I have seen here post some statues that were labeled African by others, and she labels them European because the paint is faded.
She is just the female version of Patriot. Maybe not as bad as him but she is close.
Peace
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: I'm not sure what mummy or mummies they actually x-rayed. Was this one of them?
Yes that's Elder Lady, believed to be Queen Tiye.
It's the same mummy whose skull Harris and Wente analyzed.
They don't just talk about her jaw structure but also the shape of her cranium which is similar to Mesolithic Nubians.
This would strongly suggest that she looked like a modern Southern Egyptian or Northern Sudanese as her bust illustrates.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Then he like Keita offers nothing but opinion and nothing more. No scientific evidence to back it up.
Huh? Do you think that DNA is the only body of evidence we can use to assess the Ancient Egyptian's biological affinities?
Keita and Brace have both studied the skeletal remains of the Ancient Egyptians. They have plenty of scientific evidence to back up their claims. I'd recommend that you read their studies rather than making such ill-informed comments.
My comments are only ill-informed to you because they oppose yours.
Are they geneticists or does their opinions on the phenotypical diversity of North and East Africans rely basically upon their opinions?
My guess is that one is biased in his opinions and the other is merely playing it safe to avoid being labeled racist and nothing more.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Simple Girl
I don't care for your eyeball witness of your German friend.
All I want is FACTS, I gave you FACTS from the X-Ray study that speaks about Queen Tiye and her Mom. Now what you are supposed to do is post counter FACTS that refute what was posted. If you cannot refute what was posted, Then why bring up something so stupid as your German Friend. I can do the same lame arguement that you put forth Like saying this girl:
Proves that Africans can have hair like the Queen Tiye mummie. Now do you see how stupid your arguement sounds?
Peace
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
You know.they do not like to talk about culture and migration,language affliations, body measurements and so on...they rather take some unfinished unpainted sculpture or some bleached out dried up mummies to try and make an argument out of that...Dirk aka Lucky Luciano and Simple Girl we are still waiting for those answers I posed to you on other threads.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Morpheus
What do you expect from Simple?
She is the eyeball witness queen. She never comes with scientific data, and when presented in front of her face, she turns tail and runs. Really you should not expect her to do anything more then post a statue and claim that "It looks European". That is her scientific fact. I have seen here post some statues that were labeled African by others, and she labels them European because the paint is faded.
She is just the female version of Patriot. Maybe not as bad as him but she is close.
Peace
You mean the way you keep flaunting this statue as being black African?
[IMG] [/IMG]
But when I post pictures they have no meaning but yours does.
I'll admit yours does look black African to me.Does this look typically black African to you?
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Simple Girl
I don't care for your eyeball witness of your German friend.
All I want is FACTS, I gave you FACTS from the X-Ray study that speaks about Queen Tiye and her Mom. Now what you are supposed to do is post counter FACTS that refute what was posted. If you cannot refute what was posted, Then why bring up something so stupid as your German Friend. I can do the same lame arguement that you put forth Like saying this girl:
Proves that Africans can have hair like the Queen Tiye mummie. Now do you see how stupid your arguement sounds?
Peace
I asked you before, can white people have prognathism?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: My comments are only ill-informed to you because they oppose yours.
Are they geneticists or does their opinions on the phenotypical diversity of North and East Africans rely basically upon their opinions?
My guess is that one is biased in his opinions and the other is merely playing it safe to avoid being labeled racist and nothing more.
They're biological anthropologists. Do you know what bio-anthropologists do? They study human remains. Their comments about human biological variation are based on science, not opinions.
The comments you are making are opinions. You think they are biased. Where is your degree in biology?
I'm saying that your comments are ill-informed because they are. If you think that biological anthropologists are not qualified to make authoritative statements about populations relationships then you are ill-informed.
These are reputable scholars we're talking about.
What reasons do you have to accuse them of being biased or PC other than not liking what they have to say?
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
Get with the program. I post that Pic not to prove any point to you, but to laugh at Patriot who says it looks like a caucasoid. If I wanted to post Pics of Egyptian Statues, I would post like sudaniya does. Wake up. Also your pic does not work.
Peace
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Brada-Anansi
Great post.
Let me just say that people Like Luciano are a dime a dozen. They rant out of fear.
They are afraid of Black people so they attack them any chance they get behind the safety of there computers. Black people have been influential in society and the mainstream being looked on as Inferior. They are afraid just how they would change society being looked on as people who did create the greatest civilization known to man.
Insulting blacks makes them feel better about themselves and since they live in Africa, they want to be looked upon as being apart of Africa but not being looked as apart of Black Africa.
No one should get angry at any thing a person Like Luciano says because he is just a sad person who knows deep down that Egypt is part of Black Africa. All you do is just post FACTS and watch them as they jump around like dogs failing to refute it.
Peace
Yes i'm very afraid of black people as if we live in a jungle, what makes you think you are too scary? maybe you look too damn ugly and you'd scare me? or maybe you own a set of arms and i don't? you're above the law? or maybe your biggest weapon is the race card?... this sh!t is getting old and pretty soon it will all fade away and hopefully one day people won't SUCK UP to you and your folks! they will stop tabbing on your backs because they are afraid to be labeled as "racists" what they did is creating a monster that they can't control now!!! we see them here on this board, they keep popping up, because you keep them all intimidated by the magic word again "Racist" but yet you keep calling every white person who opposes to your false allegations as "white supremacist" including me. Talking about IQ, you already acknowledged that i was Egyptian, you even used a racial slur against me which it absolutely made no sense it was kind of amusing and you turned around and called me "white supremacist" ummm, and then because you people have guilty feelings you thought i was somebody else who is coming for revenge The honest truth is that you people are stinking up this place, this isn't KFC for GOD's sake, it's an educational board, there is no room for lies and deceptions here, you are very destructive and eager to prove something to yourselves!! I on behalf of all the people who came here to share knowledge and learn including myself urge you and your gang to leave this board and find you another one!
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
DJehuti if you could, would you please put out the pic of the Ws Secpter and head-rest from kemet and the rest of Africa in general. They want to go by some thing called rice?? I want to go by culture,Language,geography etc...do that and they lose every time. not even mathilda or Swampfront can save them.
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: The honest truth is that you people are stinking up this place, this isn't KFC for GOD's sake, it an educational board, there is no room for lies and deceptions here, i on behalf of all the people who came here to share knowledge and learn including myself urge you and your gang to leave this board and find you another one!
What knowledge have you shared with us?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: The honest truth is that you people are stinking up this place, this isn't KFC for GOD's sake, it an educational board, there is no room for lies and deceptions here, i on behalf of all the people who came here to share knowledge and learn including myself urge you and your gang to leave this board and find you another one!
What knowledge have you shared with us?
Aren't you a smart ass brown noser? do you want me to copy and paste from google like they do? or maybe you have too much knowledge and getting to cocky?
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Lucky Luciano
Keep your sad and pathetic comments to yourself. Do you really think that you intimidate anyone with the shamefull and sad way you behave.
The only Ugly I see is from your messed posts. And Like I said before you are a dime a dozen. There were losers far better at there craft of hate then you, and there will be better losers then you after you leave.
Let me ask you one thing, What do you think of these FACTS that you ran from the other day:
Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture
Christopher Ehret Professor of History, African Studies Chair University of California at Los Angeles
Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots.
The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt.
Sir Alan Gardiner: These were long-headed-dolicocephalic is the learned term-and below even medium stature, but Negroid features are often to be observed. Whatever may be said of the northerners, it is safe to describe the dwellers in Upper Egypt as of essentially African stock , a character always retained despite alien influences brought to bear on them from time to time." (pg. 392; Egypt of the Pharaohs 1966)
X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980).
Courtesy of James Harris and Edward Wente:
In terms of head shape, the XVIV and XX dynasties look more like the early Nubian skulls from the mesolithic with low vaults and sloping, curved foreheads.The XVII and XVIII dynasty skulls are shaped more like modern Nubians with globular skulls and high vaults.
The people who bear the greatest resemblence to the ancient Egyptians, at present, are the Nubians; and next are the Abyssinians; page 530
Edward Lane Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians
The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)..... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). Sonia Zakrzewski (2003)
"On the Origin of the Egyptians. Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North." Mary Lefkowitz
Do you Overstand what is being said in these studies, or are you just a racist american who just gets off on insulting people he runs from in real life.
No Peace for you
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
Is that an actual tan line around the bottom of his neck?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: I on behalf of all the people who came here to share knowledge and learn including myself urge you and your gang to leave this board and find you another one!
You didn't come here to share knowledge or learn you came here to TROLL!
If you are so threatened by what we have to say then why don't you post a scientific study that supports your views so we can have a debate.
Otherwise go back under the bridge.
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Aren't you a smart ass brown noser?
I'm not "brown", I'm white. In fact I could even pass for Hitler's idea of an "Aryan": I have blond hair and blue eyes.
Don't lose any sleep over this character Luciano. He seems to think he speaks for people, when he only makes himself to look like a village idiot. All you do is post facts and then laugh at these lowlife scumbags who think Hating on African people makes him look cool.
Pathetic.
Peace
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Folks the person known as Lucky Luciano is in fact Jerk^off 8 times a Day treat him as such.
do you think i'm ugly like you mr. Jamaica mun? i swear you people are rejects Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano:
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Aren't you a smart ass brown noser?
I'm not "brown", I'm white. In fact I could even pass for Hitler's idea of an "Aryan": I have blond hair and blue eyes.
Rejects? Must be looking in the Mirror again luciano. I know for a fact if a Jamaican was in your face you would be crying for mercy.
Please spare the forum your attacks on Africans, We all know your a coward in real life and only mouth off because you can't do nothing to anyone in real life.
Moving on, How about this Fact:
The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472
Can you refute? Or are you going to turtle and Attack Africans again?
No peace for you
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: I on behalf of all the people who came here to share knowledge and learn including myself urge you and your gang to leave this board and find you another one!
You didn't come here to share knowledge or learn you came here to TROLL!
If you are so threatened by what we have to say then why don't you post a scientific study that supports your views so we can have a debate.
Otherwise go back under the bridge.
Stupid idiot, i don't have to come up with anything the internet is full of information, ONLY intelligent people know how to distinguish between the facts from the garbage, but who actually cares to share any knowledge with somebody like you? are you even civilized enough to debate? NO, because it has to be your way no matter what, why aren't too many people debating with you? because they aren't going anywhere, they pretty much hitting a brick wall, the debating time is over, now is time to let you people have it!!!
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano:
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Aren't you a smart ass brown noser?
I'm not "brown", I'm white. In fact I could even pass for Hitler's idea of an "Aryan": I have blond hair and blue eyes.
I agree, keep your pics to yourself white boy.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Lucky Luciano
Really, who are you trying to scare? NO ONE is intimidated by you. You claim that you came to learn, yet have no answers for the Facts posted in this thread. Your simply a coward who attacks African people behind the safety of his computer.
Your a Sad case of a man who has no balls. Grow up.
No Peace for you
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Stupid idiot, i don't have to come up with anything the internet is full of information, ONLY intelligent people know how to distinguish between the facts from the garbage, but who actually cares to share any knowledge with somebody like you? are you even civilized enough to debate? NO, because it has to be your way no matter what, why aren't too many people debating with you? because they aren't going anywhere, they pretty much hitting a brick wall, the debating time is over, now is time to let you people have it!!!
In other words you're not intelligent enough to debate us so you TROLL!
Don't be afraid. Give it a shot. There are so few debaters on here because the opposition know they will lose and the trolls know that we can be as sassy as we are intelligent. Your childish insults have no power here.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
I can assure you, you're not worth my time, debating with you gives you some value you don't deserve! i rather hurt your feelings Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Morpheus
What I have been sadly trying to show this racist. His insults don't affect anyone. Only FACTS works around here.
Sadly he is so bent on attacking Africans that he can't see it will not scare people from posting on this forum.
Peace
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: I can assure you, you're not worth my time, debating with you gives you some value you don't deserve! i rather hurt your feelings
Coward. Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Lucky Luciano
Really, who are you trying to scare? NO ONE is intimidated by you. You claim that you came to learn, yet have no answers for the Facts posted in this thread. Your simply a coward who attacks African people behind the safety of his computer.
Your a Sad case of a man who has no balls. Grow up.
No Peace for you
I asked your friend a simple question but he didn't answer!! Could you answer it like a man????
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
YES, NO, maybe so? Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Any black man in da house? or is it chitlins:30 ?
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bogle:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano:
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Aren't you a smart ass brown noser?
I'm not "brown", I'm white. In fact I could even pass for Hitler's idea of an "Aryan": I have blond hair and blue eyes.
You may be a little bit more intelligent than the cracker trolls in here, but you are still white. Hence you are still ugly.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Any brave "African" man interested to answer a simple question???
nope Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Like u daddy rejected u momma after she give birth to u fasi face clept lip hairy shoulders pot bellied red eyelashes freckles nosed bwaay who like to jerk off-8 time a day.Btw if you say you are gone why don't you stay gone....this is the my last postin on this thread I will Look for a thread with more substance or start one myself...I can't say i^am happy to see you back jack ^off.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
coward pieces of trash! ONE down a few more to go Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Any brave "African" man interested to answer a simple question???
What's the question?
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
I'm still waiting for Simple Girl to address my bioanthropological evidence...
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Any brave "African" man interested to answer a simple question???
What's the question?
WOW, he really is interested!! But if you don't answer this question to my satisfactory i will continue to kick your ass, if you answer honestly i may give you a break for a day to continue your bologna, ok?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: WOW, he really is interested!! But if you don't answer this question to my satisfactory i will continue to kick your ass, if you answer honestly i may give you a break for a day to continue your bologna, ok?
Bring it on. You haven't landed a single shot on me so far....
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Good deal, very simple! you and your buddies posted too many photos on here to prove your theory, right? ok, You use the curly hair (if not wigs) in those photos as a distinctive item/body part of an African person to support your claim, apparently it is of some significance to you! You or your buddy mentioned before that "you are proud of your heritage" could you tell me why at least %90 of black men at least here in America shave their hair and about 99% of black females straighten theirs?
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
^ wow, thats a tough one. lol
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bogle: ^ wow, thats a tough one. lol
Are we starting to belittle the question to make it unanswered???
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Good deal, very simple! you and your buddies posted too many photos on here to prove your theory, right? ok, You use the curly hair (if not wigs) in those photos as a distinctive item/body part of an African person to support your claim, apparently it is of some significance to you! You or your buddy mentioned before that "you are proud of your heritage" could you tell me why at least %90 of black men at least here in America shave their hair and about 99% of black females straighten theirs?
For maintenance. Straight and short hair is much easier to maintain. Afros were very popular during the 60s and 70s but eventually they fell out of style and people chose hair cuts that were easier to maintain.
Oh really? "maintenance" so whities actually have something right about them eh? and that doesn't mean that you people aren't too happy about your own race? Don't give me no trashy links or articles written by another person like you, we are sick and tired of copy and paste sh!t, use your brains for a change!
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Good night to all the intelligent people in here!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Oh really? "maintenance" so whities actually have something right about them eh? and that doesn't mean that you people aren't too happy about your own race?
White people are not the only people with straight hair and anyone can cut their hair short. It's pretty normal for men of all ethnicities infact Black men have set a trend for short hair cuts.
I won't deny that many Black Americans have an inferiority complex over their aesthetics due living in a society with a White standard of beauty. This documentary illustrates that fact.
Ofcourse anyone who gloats over something like this is evil and likely has low self-esteem issues of their own. Afterall if you have confidence in yourself why would you bother to insult other people?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Insult??? you and your friends master that! You asked for intelligent questions and by GOD you got one and you're not capable of answering it!! Please, before you go about making yourself look as MR. Wonderful and nice remember your insensitive remarks toward other races!! Again you use "self esteem" another weapon you can have under your belt! who is the one with no self esteem?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Don't give me no trashy links or articles written by another person like you, we are sick and tired of copy and paste sh!t, use your brains for a change!
I am using my own words, I was simply being informative by providing you with a detailed link.
Why do you constantly have to edit your posts to add new material? Can't you construct a coherent response without having to constantly add on to it to "improve" it? That's a reflection of your insecurity. You are not confident in what you type.
Anyway I'm off to bed. I have humored you for long enough. But will you ever develop the courage to challenge us in debate on the race of the Ancient Egyptians? That remains to be seen.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Editing my post doesn't prove insecurity, as you may know English isn't my native language but yet i was able to get your ass straight. Debate again? did you answer the question??? all you did is cried and called me Evil Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Insult??? you and your friends master that! You asked for intelligent questions and by GOD you got one and you're not capable of answering it!! Please, before you go about making yourself look as MR. Wonderful and nice remember your insensitive remarks toward other races!! Again you use "self esteem" another weapon you can have under your belt! who is the one with no self esteem?
I haven't made any insensitive remarks about other races.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Insult??? you and your friends master that! You asked for intelligent questions and by GOD you got one and you're not capable of answering it!! Please, before you go about making yourself look as MR. Wonderful and nice remember your insensitive remarks toward other races!! Again you use "self esteem" another weapon you can have under your belt! who is the one with no self esteem?
I haven't made any insensitive remarks about other races.
Ok, i feel bad now... You pushed me though!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: [QB] Editing my post doesn't prove insecurity, as you may know English isn't my main language but yet i was able to get your ass straight. Debate again? did you answer the question??? all you did is cried and called me Evil
Calling you evil is just stating facts.
You're the one who whines about being called a racist.
I don't complain about what people say to me. If they act like an asshole I just call them an asshole.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Here we go again!!! typical uncivilized person! i'm going to sleep!!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Here we go again!!! typical uncivilized person! i'm going to sleep!!
Says the guy who admits he'd rather hurt people's feelings than have a civil debate.
We offered you a civil debate and you refused. I answered your question but I also recognized that it was bait to further insult Black people. I chose to bite only to prove my point.
Posted by JMT (Member # 12050) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by KING: Morpheus
What do you expect from Simple?
She is the eyeball witness queen. She never comes with scientific data, and when presented in front of her face, she turns tail and runs. Really you should not expect her to do anything more then post a statue and claim that "It looks European". That is her scientific fact. I have seen here post some statues that were labeled African by others, and she labels them European because the paint is faded.
She is just the female version of Patriot. Maybe not as bad as him but she is close.
Peace
You mean the way you keep flaunting this statue as being black African?
You should never be the one to ever talk about "flaunting" pictures when all you ever do is erroneously spam pics of antiquities you know nothing about, such as the 4th dynasty limestone head from Kufu's reign you FLAUNTED, (falsely assuming it was something other than an indigenous black kemetian).
You failed to provide an explanation for your reckless blunder. What is your retarded explanation btw, and why did you assume the head resembled a non-black Kemetian?
Looks like you're just hellbent on exposing yourself as a fraudulent Mathilda wannabe.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
You are good!. What is the next question you asked. Why we shave our heads?? Sh1t that is a tough one. What are you? ,. . .a 12yo . .. .and stupid.
Got to admit, you ask the tough questions. You are a great "debater".
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Dumbass did not even follow the logic. Even with the Tyrone quote,
No wonder racists are stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You know what.. i have absolutely have no problems with JEWS (HEBREWS) they have a great culture and we share a big part of our history, it's sickening to hear those clowns saying they were blacks!!
Prove your intelligence please, post some more photos
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Brada Anansi already answered this question. But here's a more succinct answer: It's a Black thing. The people of ancient Egypt would understand.
quote: Many men and women also preferred to shave their heads bald, replacing their natural hair with a wig. Priests, who maintained stringent codes of cleanliness, are frequently depicted with perfectly bald heads. At least from what ancient imagery recounts to us, despite her shaved head, the average Egyptian woman did not walk around bald, but invariably wore a wig. Shaving the head may have served a multitude of purposes: eliminating one's own hair may have been more comfortable in Egypt's hot climate, cleanliness may have been easier to maintain and head lice certainly easier to avoid. Wigs may have fit better once the natural hair was gone, however the bald look itself does not seem ever to have been a generally popular style for Egyptian women. Although, of course, what was or wasn't worn in the comfort and privacy of one's own home may remain an eternal mystery. Wigs also apparently held sensual connotations, based on the frequent references in Egyptian romantic poetry.
She is the eyeball witness queen. She never comes with scientific data, and when presented in front of her face, she turns tail and runs. Really you should not expect her to do anything more then post a statue and claim that "It looks European". That is her scientific fact. I have seen here post some statues that were labeled African by others, and she labels them European because the paint is faded.
She is just the female version of Patriot. Maybe not as bad as him but she is close.
Peace
You mean the way you keep flaunting this statue as being black African?
You should never be the one to ever talk about "flaunting" pictures when all you ever do is erroneously spam pics of antiquities you know nothing about, such as the 4th dynasty limestone head from Kufu's reign you FLAUNTED, (falsely assuming it was something other than an indigenous black kemetian).
You failed to provide an explanation for your reckless blunder. What is your retarded explanation btw, and why did you assume the head resembled a non-black Kemetian?
Looks like you're just hellbent on exposing yourself as a fraudulent Mathilda wannabe.
If you are speaking of this head below, then it is you that has made the reckless blunder.I never assumed it was anything but a black person.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Here we go again!!! typical uncivilized person! i'm going to sleep!!
Says the guy who admits he'd rather hurt people's feelings than have a civil debate.
We offered you a civil debate and you refused. I answered your question but I also recognized that it was bait to further insult Black people. I chose to bite only to prove my point.
Man, what answer? you're a big pu$$y, you called me evil, obviously the question weighed too much for your bright brains and you failed to answer it, then after i went to sleep your friends started to come out, it took them a while to gather some courage, you must be the leader of the retards Now as promised i have no choice but to remain on your asses!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Man, what answer? you're a big pu$$y, you called me evil, obviously the question weighed too much for your bright brains and you failed to answer it, then after i went to sleep your friends started to come out, it took them a while to gather some courage, you must be the leader of the retards Now as promised i have no choice but to remain on your asses!
Keep trolling away if that makes you feel good about yourself. We've seen far worse than you.
You call me a pussy and yet you don't have the balls to even attempt a debate with us. Are you too scared because you know you'll get your ass whipped the way Kemp, Evil Euro and all the others did?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Man please, you guys are clowns i swear to GOD, you couldn't even answer a simple question and you already made me feel bad for you when you called me evil!! Again, debating time is over with you people! now it's reality time... Those individuals you're talking about didn't give up because you defeated them, they only "attacked" your ignorance and when they realized how dumb and shallow you folks are they were only satisfied to amuse people who are watching this thread by humiliating you Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Are you ready for the next question that was never answered before??
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
They got their asses handed to them. That's why they quit. Even though they were racists at the very least they tried to debate. You are behaving like a sniveling coward.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Debating has it's people and you aint it!! Are you ready for the question???
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Are you ready for the next question that was never answered before??
Do not waste your time with the stupids My father told me once "the way where the dog sh!t exist,do not go there" so lucky ,Do not! Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Are you ready for the next question that was never answered before??
I'm not answering anymore of your racist questions.
It's time for you to stop trolling and debate. Put up or shut up.
Failure to do so will only resort in more mockery of your cowardice.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Are you ready for the next question that was never answered before??
Do not waste your time with the stupids My father told me once "the way where the dog sh!t exist,do not go there" so lucky ,Do not!
i'm having too much fun actually Ahmad, stick around and watch his ass being torn up Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Are you ready for the next question that was never answered before??
I'm not answering anymore of your racist questions.
It's time for you to stop trolling and debate. Put up or shut up.
Failure to do so will only resort in more mockery of your cowardice.
You don't want to answer my questions and yet you want me to debate?? Be a man and take it like a trooper boy!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You don't want to answer my questions and yet you want me to debate?? Be a man and take it like a trooper boy!
This is a debate forum not entertain the racists forum.
Start a new thread and present your argument against a Black African Ancient Egypt.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Are you afraid of my question? Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You don't want to answer my questions and yet you want me to debate?? Be a man and take it like a trooper boy!
This is a debate forum not entertain the racists forum.
Start a new thread and present your argument against a Black African Ancient Egypt.
there is nothing called Black African Ancient Egypt so we can debate on it
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Bogle says:
''You may be a little bit more intelligent than the cracker trolls in here, but you are still white. Hence you are still ugly.''
I see you left Jamaica; at least in the internet sense. Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Are you afraid of my question?
Quit trolling and debate like a man. Unless you're afraid.....
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: there is nothing called Black African Ancient Egypt so we can debate on it [/QB]
Ancient Egypt was a Black African civilization.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
My questions hurt too much?? Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: ]Ancient Egypt was a Black African civilization.
This did not happen even in your dream!! It is African Civilization but not Black, Remember Egyptians sometimes ruled Iraq and syria so Is Iraq also Black African civi?! Is Syria?! Wake up from ur dreams
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Ahmad they are saying Jesus was black too - Egypt was black - Hebrews are blacks - Ancient Persians were blacks - Italians were blacks - Greeks were blacks or light skinned people must have come out from no where!!
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Ahmad they are saying Jesus was black too
those people have really psychiatric issues ,they think every thing is Black this even does not happen in their wildest dreams
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: This did not happen even in your dream!! It is African Civilization but not Black, Remember Egyptians sometimes ruled Iraq and syria so Is Iraq also Black African civi?! Is Syria?! Wake up from ur dreams
The architects and rulers of Ancient Egypt as well as the majority of its populace throughout the Dynastic period were Black.
The lands you are talking about were part of Ancient Egypt's empire which is irrelevant.
That's like saying the Ancient Romans were not White Europeans because of the expansion of their empire.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
The lands you are talking about were part of Ancient Egypt's empire which is irrelevant.
Sinai and Palestine was parts of the Ancient Egypt so why they are not Black?!
quote: The architects and rulers of Ancient Egypt as well as the majority of its populace throughout the Dynastic period were Black.
Give logical proofs not pics
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Ahmad they are saying Jesus was black too
I don't believe Jesus was Black.
I think he looked like the average tan-skinned, dark-haired person common in the Middle East. He wasn't Black or White.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Ahmad they are saying Jesus was black too
those people have really psychiatric issues ,they think every thing is Black this even does not happen in their wildest dreams
Ahmad if you live in America you will see it everyday, they wouldn't even listen to you if you're not black, try to go to any black dominated places and say "hello" or try to ask a question they will overlook you because you don't look like them Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Ahmad they are saying Jesus was black too
I don't believe Jesus was Black.
I think he looked like the average tan-skinned, dark-haired person common in the Middle East. He wasn't Black or White.
Are you refuting your friends' theory then? I thought the whole gang's on the same page!!!!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Morpheus: Sinai and Palestine was parts of the Ancient Egypt so why they are not Black?!
You know better than to ask such a silly question. Ancient Egyptian civilization sprang from Upper Egypt not Sinai or Palestine. Those areas became part of the Ancient Egyptian territory and the base population of Egypt was never in that area.
Articles by black scholars again?!
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote: You know better than to ask such a silly question. Ancient Egyptian civilization sprang from Upper Egypt not Sinai or Palestine. Those areas became part of the Ancient Egyptian territory and the base population of Egypt was never in that area.
no way ! I do not know if u even studied history but Sinai was part of the civil war when King Mena united the state, Do not spread false facts about history
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Are you refuting your friends' theory then? I thought the whole gang's on the same page!!!
I'm an individual person with my own opinions.
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Articles by black scholars again?!
Research supported by a Multitude of scholars. Trying to discredit them based on their race is an Ad-hominem attack.
If you disagree refute the research.
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Lucky wannabee wop and ahmad, also known as Abdul, mohammed*, and the rest of the gang are fighting their newfound knowledge of dark blood coursing through their veins and that you folks are trying to steal Black Ancient Egypt's history. That knowledge is distressing to both you boys ain't it.
Now the both of you tighten those things on your heads and further incapacitate your ability to digest facts.
* Place a ''u'' and ''m'' in their ''correct''? positions if you like.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Lucky wannabee wop and ahmad, also known as Abdul, mohammed*, and the rest of the gang are fighting their newfound knowledge of dark blood coursing through their veins and that you folks sre trying to steal Black Ancient Egypt's history. That knowledge is distressing to both you boys ain't it.
Now the both of you tighten those things on your heads and further incapacitate your ability to digest facts.
* Place a ''u'' and ''m'' in their ''correct''? positions if you like.
try to spell it correctly and come to talk!!!
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
The whole point is about race my friend, they wouldn't even stick their noses in any research unless it's racial related "black" in particular, just like Martin Luther King, he only fought for civil rights as long as they are for HIS people, but did he fight for Latinos, white women or any other minority groups? of course NOT!
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Lucky wannabee wop and ahmad, also known as Abdul, mohammed*, and the rest of the gang are fighting their newfound knowledge of dark blood coursing through their veins and that you folks sre trying to steal Black Ancient Egypt's history. That knowledge is distressing to both you boys ain't it.
Now the both of you tighten those things on your heads and further incapacitate your ability to digest facts.
* Place a ''u'' and ''m'' in their ''correct''? positions if you like.
try to spell it correctly and come to talk!!!
^ try good grammar. lol
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bogle:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Lucky wannabee wop and ahmad, also known as Abdul, mohammed*, and the rest of the gang are fighting their newfound knowledge of dark blood coursing through their veins and that you folks sre trying to steal Black Ancient Egypt's history. That knowledge is distressing to both you boys ain't it.
Now the both of you tighten those things on your heads and further incapacitate your ability to digest facts.
* Place a ''u'' and ''m'' in their ''correct''? positions if you like.
try to spell it correctly and come to talk!!!
^ try good grammar. lol
it was right MR.Shakespeare
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
It's funny they talk about grammar when they say "aks" instead of "ask" you know wharramsayin' foo? Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: It's funny they talk about grammer when they say "aks" instead of "ask" you know wharramsayin' foo?
ROFL sooooooooo funny Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Ahmad, I did try to spell it correctly, that's why I asked for your help. You don't know how to spell it either? Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: The whole point is about race my friend, they wouldn't even stick their noses in any research unless it's racial related "black" in particular, just like Martin Luther King, he only fought for civil rights as long as they are for HIS people, but did he fight for Latinos, white women or any other minority groups? of course NOT!
If you presented me a scholarly essay and my response to you was that it's not credible because the authors are White you would be screaming racism from the rooftops and calling me biased.
This is an example of intellectual bankruptcy on your part. You can't respond to the research so you attack the authors personally.
Well we can consider this debate over and done if that's all you're going to do. You lose via forfeit before the fight has even started.
Kemp atleast tried to debate.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
I swear to god, a DOCTOR says "aks"!!!
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Where is Argie when you need him/her? Hey Argie this Luciano dude is right up your alley.
Entertaining to see a nice cuss out. Morpheus and others why waste your breath on this dude.
To them name calling and insults is "debating". They are too stupid to realize Homey don't play that! . . .anymore. Most don't even take him seriously.
Me personally don't like watermelon(not sweet enough, too watery) but I like fried chicken. LOL.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: The whole point is about race my friend, they wouldn't even stick their noses in any research unless it's racial related "black" in particular, just like Martin Luther King, he only fought for civil rights as long as they are for HIS people, but did he fight for Latinos, white women or any other minority groups? of course NOT!
If you presented me a scholarly essay and my response to you was that it's not credible because the authors are White you would be screaming racism from the rooftops and calling me biased.
This is an example of intellectual bankruptcy on your part. You can't respond to the research so you attack the authors personally.
Well we can consider this debate over and done if that's all you're going to do. You lose via forfeit before the fight has even started.
Kemp atleast tried to debate.
and who exactly are you??!! Scholar??
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: The whole point is about race my friend, they wouldn't even stick their noses in any research unless it's racial related "black" in particular, just like Martin Luther King, he only fought for civil rights as long as they are for HIS people, but did he fight for Latinos, white women or any other minority groups? of course NOT!
If you presented me a scholarly essay and my response to you was that it's not credible because the authors are White you would be screaming racism from the rooftops and calling me biased.
This is an example of intellectual bankruptcy on your part. You can't respond to the research so you attack the authors personally.
Well we can consider this debate over and done if that's all you're going to do. You lose via forfeit before the fight has even started.
Kemp atleast tried to debate.
Copy and paste is a debate? any dumb ass can do that if you can do it!! i want to ask you a logic question and you answer ok?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: and who exactly are you??!! Scholar??
I'm just an ordinary person posting on a message board. But I'm citing an authoritative source for my claim.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Any intelligent Africano for an attractive question?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Copy and paste is a debate? any dumb ass can do that if you can do it!! i want to ask you a logic question and you answer ok? [/QB]
I will answer your question only if it is relevant to the discussion of Ancient Egypt.
We haven't even had a debate yet. I was asked for proof so I cited an authoritative source. Now if you disagree you will post a counter source.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
This btw is a more historically accurate portrayl of Jesus.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: This btw is a more historically accurate portrayl of Jesus.
No way!! Jesus was beautiful
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Copy and paste is a debate? any dumb ass can do that if you can do it!! i want to ask you a logic question and you answer ok?
I will answer your question only if it is relevant to the discussion of Ancient Egypt.
We haven't even had a debate yet. I was asked for proof so I cited an authoritative source. Now if you disagree you will post a counter source. [/QB]
Ok, here is the question: We see you guys talk about how strong blacks are and you can wip anybody's ass and we are all cowards, stupid and you'll are genius, true? Ok, if this is the case then can you tell me why Africans were in captivity throughout the history of mankind? Starting from the Egyptians themselves to Ancient Greeks, to Romans and then a couple of thousands years later by British and others? Where is the physical and mental power here? We all agree slavery is the most horrible and brutal thing that existed and this question by all means not to be taken as humiliation but it deserves an answer! BTW: if you throw in one link i would automatically assume you're incompetent!
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Copy and paste is a debate? any dumb ass can do that if you can do it!! i want to ask you a logic question and you answer ok?
I will answer your question only if it is relevant to the discussion of Ancient Egypt.
We haven't even had a debate yet. I was asked for proof so I cited an authoritative source. Now if you disagree you will post a counter source.
Ok, here is the question: We see you guys talk about how strong blacks are and you can wip anybody's ass and we are all cowards, stupid and you'll are genius, true? Ok, if this is the case then can you tell me why Africans were in captivity throughout the history of mankind? Starting from the Egyptians themselves to Ancient Greeks, to Romans and then a couple of thousands years later by British and others? Where is the physical and mental power here? We all agree slavery is the most horrible and brutal thing that existed and this question by all means not to be taken as humiliation but it deserves an answer! BTW: if you throw in one link i would automatically assume you're incompetent! [/QB]
yes I remember this but if the ancient Egyptians were black why the slaves were black too!!!??? This is the question to be answered! if the ancient Egyptians were black and Africans were they to have black slaves?! No offense people
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Another good point Ahmad.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Ok, here is the question: We see you guys talk about how strong blacks are and you can wip anybody's ass and we are all cowards, stupid and you'll are genius, true? Ok, if this is the case then can you tell me why Africans were in captivity throughout the history of mankind? Starting from the Egyptians themselves to Ancient Greeks, to Romans and then a couple of thousands years later by British and others? Where is the physical and mental power here? We all agree slavery is the most horrible and brutal thing that existed and this question by all means not to be taken as humiliation but it deserves an answer!
I like how you tried to mix Ancient Egypt into there.
First of all you are generalizing. I never said that Blacks were smarter or stronger than anyone.
The perception of Blacks as being stronger comes from the success of Black athletes. During the 19th century it was believed that Whites were physically and mentally superior to other races.
Jack Johnson shattered the myth that Whites were physically superior in the minds of Whites when he became the first Black HW champion who for years noone could defeat creating a search for a "Great White Hope." Later on Blacks came to further dominate Boxing perpetuating the belief that they were better fighters. Success in other sport led to the belief that Blacks were superior athletes all together.
As far as slavery is concerned people from every region of the world have been enslaved. The Ancient Egyptians, a Black African people, enslaved Europeans and Southwest Asians as well as Nubians and other Africans.
The Greeks and Romans enslaved Europeans as well as Africans and did not view Africans as inferior.
This is what The Greek historian Lucian had to say about Black Africans:
"The Ethiopians, being in all else wiser than other men, invented astrology and taught it to the Egyptians"
Perceptions of Blacks as inferior by Europeans began with the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade. It was actually necessary to view them as inferior in order to subjugate them. As time went on and the USA adopted more Egalitarian policies Blacks have risen from the lowest end of the Socio-Economic ladder to excel in every area of American life including the Presidency. That should dispel any notion of inferiority in the mind of an objective person.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
"The Ethiopians, being in all else wiser than other men, invented astrology and taught it to the Egyptians"
this allegation has been refuted by modern historians and proved to be false now answer my question.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
The Ancient Egyptians were enslaved???? to whom? another lie?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: this allegation has been refuted by modern historians and proved to be false now answer my question.
The point of the quote is to give an example of the perception Greeks had of Blacks during that time period.
Your question was pretty much answered in my last post. Slavery was not a racial thing back then. Nations dominated and enslaved their neighbors.
That has happened throughout the whole world. Greeks and Romans enslaved other Whites. Egyptians enslaved other Blacks.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: this allegation has been refuted by modern historians and proved to be false now answer my question.
The point of the quote is to give an example of the perception Greeks had of Blacks during that time period.
Your question was pretty much answered in my last post. Slavery was not a racial thing back then. Nations dominated and enslaved their neighbors.
That has happened throughout the whole world. Greeks and Romans enslaved other Whites. Egyptians enslaved other Blacks.
not true. if it did not mean a racial thing why we did not see a Roman enslave another Roman?! or a Greek with another Greek?! it is always about racism ,buddy,it has been always about racism
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: not true. if it did not mean a racial thing why we did not see a Roman enslave another Roman?! or a Greek with another Greek?! it is always about racism ,buddy,it has been always about racism
Greeks did enslave other Greeks. Rome was a vast empire.
They enslaved every group of people they encountered regardless of color.
Racism did not exist back then not in the sense that it does now. People identified primarily with their culture, language or religion. Not their physical features.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: Greeks did enslave other Greeks
give me evidence to beleive that, and even if I believe you why we did not see a guy from Rome enslave another guy from Rome or why people in the same city did not enslave each other?!
quote:
Racism did not exist back then not in the sense that it does now
it is the same but face it, yes other nations were captured but they were servants ,slaves were only black(no offense again)
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: give me evidence to beleive that, and even if I believe you why we did not see a guy from Rome enslave another guy from Rome or why people in the same city did not enslave each other?!
You can read all about slavery here. And they did in slave people from their own cities. Sometimes people owed debt and had to sell themselves into slavery.
quote:it is the same but face it, yes other nations were captured but they were servants ,slaves were only black(no offense again)
This isn't true at all. I suggest you do a bit more reading about slavery and history.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Ayisha: man this place is confusing! who are the racists? are they the ones saying Ancient Egyptians were black or the other lot? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you if stick around and read people's post objectively you will be able to separate the racists from the Egalitarians.
A racist is someone who disrespects other people because of their racial or ethnic background.
Disagreeing that the Ancient Egyptians were Black doesn't make you a racist in and of itself.
Claiming a certain group is inferior or hurling racial insults makes you a racist.
Mike and I agree that the Ancient Egyptians were Black but Mike is clearly a racist as evidence by his camel humping Turk and anti-White comments.
You will never see me disparage another person because of their race.
Another poster named Masreyya on the other hand believes that the modern Egyptian population is reflective of the Ancient population being neither Black nor White but a more varied society. I've never seen her make any racist comments.
Thanks Morpheus, I know what a racist is just gets confusing a bit on here.
You do all know that racists have smaller sized brains though dont you?
dont know what happened but this is what i was replying to Posted by JMT (Member # 12050) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by JMT:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by KING: Morpheus
What do you expect from Simple?
She is the eyeball witness queen. She never comes with scientific data, and when presented in front of her face, she turns tail and runs. Really you should not expect her to do anything more then post a statue and claim that "It looks European". That is her scientific fact. I have seen here post some statues that were labeled African by others, and she labels them European because the paint is faded.
She is just the female version of Patriot. Maybe not as bad as him but she is close.
Peace
You mean the way you keep flaunting this statue as being black African?
You should never be the one to ever talk about "flaunting" pictures when all you ever do is erroneously spam pics of antiquities you know nothing about, such as the 4th dynasty limestone head from Kufu's reign you FLAUNTED, (falsely assuming it was something other than an indigenous black kemetian).
You failed to provide an explanation for your reckless blunder. What is your retarded explanation btw, and why did you assume the head resembled a non-black Kemetian?
Looks like you're just hellbent on exposing yourself as a fraudulent Mathilda wannabe.
If you are speaking of this head below, then it is you that has made the reckless blunder.I never assumed it was anything but a black person.
Your idiocy is getting the best of you. Not only are you a deceiver, liar, and an evader of logic, but your dementia has exacerbated the little brain cells you have to mental retardation. Like I said, you're hellbent on exposing yourself for the trolling buffoon you really are Simple-minded girl, aka Kemp, aka white nord, aka ....?
For your edification, you've done absolutely nothing other than spam images of what YOU PERCEIVE to be non-black antiquities. Are you going to sit here and tell this forum the only reason you posted the limestone head from the 4th dynasty is because you believe the head to be that of a black Kemetian, when in fact you never once posted a single antiquity you didn't perceive was "white-looking" derived from some alien european extraction? You're full of shlt.
For last time, what was your intended purpose for posting the limestone head from Kufu's reign?
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
I would like to remind everybody that ancient Egypt,unlike Rome and Greece, did not have any slave markets. Slavery in ancient Egypt is debatable and is compairable to servent status. Most of the servents in ancient Egypt were attached to wealthy individuals and worked in the house.
Most of the ''slaves'' in ancient Egypt came from military campaigns in lands to the south or east. None of these were aquired by slave markets or middle men.
Slavery was not a intricate part of economic life in Egypt for the simply fact it relied on corvee labor. Corvee labor was a system in which everyday farmers were used to complete public and religious works. This was something mandatory because evasion of corvee labor was punishible under the pharoah.
For slavery in ancient Egypt see:
The Egyptians by Sergio Donadoni
It's doubtful most people will read my post or even check into the reference material. Case in point, ancient people did not have a unified racial unity like modern people,and they did not see people in foreign cultures regardless of their skin color as one group. Skin color did not not trump the collectie idenity o color. This notion does not mean one did not recognize differences but that conormity of one trait was not enough to have any unity.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by JMT: [/qb]
Your idiocy is getting the best of you. Not only are you a deceiver, liar, and an evader of logic, but your dementia has exacerbated the little brain cells you have to mental retardation. Like I said, you're hellbent on exposing yourself for the trolling buffoon you really are Simple-minded girl, aka Kemp, aka white nord, aka ....?
For your edification, you've done absolutely nothing other than spam images of what YOU PERCEIVE to be non-black antiquities. Are you going to sit here and tell this forum the only reason you posted the limestone head from the 4th dynasty is because you believe the head to be that of a black Kemetian, when in fact you never once posted a single antiquity you didn't perceive was "white-looking" derived from some alien european extraction? You're full of shlt.
For last time, what was your intended purpose for posting the limestone head from Kufu's reign? [/QB][/QUOTE]
This is what I originally posted:
I'll play a little game with you all. You post as many black African looking statues from the Old Kingdom as you can, and I'll post as many white looking statues from the Old Kingdom as I can. Since you don't take scientific and scholarly evidence seriously, we'll see how many statues you can post from the Old Kingdom that compares to the numbers I can post. OK? [/QUOTE]
And then I posted a picture and the statement:
[QB] Here's one to get you started.
If you are looking for an incomprehensible idiot, I suggest you go have a look in the mirror. Now stop wasting my time.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by JMT:
Your idiocy is getting the best of you. Not only are you a deceiver, liar, and an evader of logic, but your dementia has exacerbated the little brain cells you have to mental retardation. Like I said, you're hellbent on exposing yourself for the trolling buffoon you really are Simple-minded girl, aka Kemp, aka white nord, aka ....?
For your edification, you've done absolutely nothing other than spam images of what YOU PERCEIVE to be non-black antiquities. Are you going to sit here and tell this forum the only reason you posted the limestone head from the 4th dynasty is because you believe the head to be that of a black Kemetian, when in fact you never once posted a single antiquity you didn't perceive was "white-looking" derived from some alien european extraction? You're full of shlt.
For last time, what was your intended purpose for posting the limestone head from Kufu's reign? [/QB]
This is what I originally posted:
I'll play a little game with you all. You post as many black African looking statues from the Old Kingdom as you can, and I'll post as many white looking statues from the Old Kingdom as I can. Since you don't take scientific and scholarly evidence seriously, we'll see how many statues you can post from the Old Kingdom that compares to the numbers I can post. OK? [/QUOTE]
And then I posted a picture and the statement:
Here's one to get you started.
If you are looking for an incomprehensible idiot, I suggest you go have a look in the mirror. Now stop wasting my time. [/QB][/QUOTE] Super Posted by JMT (Member # 12050) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by JMT:
Your idiocy is getting the best of you. Not only are you a deceiver, liar, and an evader of logic, but your dementia has exacerbated the little brain cells you have to mental retardation. Like I said, you're hellbent on exposing yourself for the trolling buffoon you really are Simple-minded girl, aka Kemp, aka white nord, aka ....?
For your edification, you've done absolutely nothing other than spam images of what YOU PERCEIVE to be non-black antiquities. Are you going to sit here and tell this forum the only reason you posted the limestone head from the 4th dynasty is because you believe the head to be that of a black Kemetian, when in fact you never once posted a single antiquity you didn't perceive was "white-looking" derived from some alien european extraction? You're full of shlt.
For last time, what was your intended purpose for posting the limestone head from Kufu's reign? [/QB]
This is what I originally posted:
I'll play a little game with you all. You post as many black African looking statues from the Old Kingdom as you can, and I'll post as many white looking statues from the Old Kingdom as I can. Since you don't take scientific and scholarly evidence seriously, we'll see how many statues you can post from the Old Kingdom that compares to the numbers I can post. OK? [/QUOTE]
And then I posted a picture and the statement:
Here's one to get you started.
If you are looking for an incomprehensible idiot, I suggest you go have a look in the mirror. Now stop wasting my time. [/QUOTE]
Semantics, double-talk and backtracking. You're impeding the forums time with your inane stupidity.
1. "I'll post as many white looking statues from the Old Kingdom as I can."
2. You post limestone head from 4th dynasty which you later claim...
3. "I never assumed it (4th dynasty limestone head) was anything but a black person."
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Morpheus: Sinai and Palestine was parts of the Ancient Egypt so why they are not Black?!
You know better than to ask such a silly question. Ancient Egyptian civilization sprang from Upper Egypt not Sinai or Palestine. Those areas became part of the Ancient Egyptian territory and the base population of Egypt was never in that area.
Where can you or anyone else on this board, show me in this sacred article of yours , the proof that dynastic Egypt was black? I have not seen one bit of evidence in it to suggest that it was. Now please point out why you think this paper has undeniable evidence to support your argument.
Posted by JMT (Member # 12050) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Morpheus: Sinai and Palestine was parts of the Ancient Egypt so why they are not Black?!
You know better than to ask such a silly question. Ancient Egyptian civilization sprang from Upper Egypt not Sinai or Palestine. Those areas became part of the Ancient Egyptian territory and the base population of Egypt was never in that area.
Where can you or anyone else on this board, show me in this sacred article of yours , the proof that dynastic Egypt was black? I have not seen one bit of evidence in it to suggest that it was. Now please point out why you think this paper has undeniable evidence to support your argument.
Why should Morpheus point out anything to you when you continually stall and evade questions from members like a mentally retarded child at a spelling bee?
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
^ why do you people keep falling for baits?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Poor desperate people Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by JMT: [/qb]
Why should Morpheus point out anything to you when you continually stall and evade questions from members like a mentally retarded child at a spelling bee? [/QB][/QUOTE]
Perhaps you can show me the evidence in the article? Or did you get stuck to the mirror?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Great soap opera!! Who is screwing who again???!!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Where can you or anyone else on this board, show me in this sacred article of yours , the proof that dynastic Egypt was black? I have not seen one bit of evidence in it to suggest that it was. Now please point out why you think this paper has undeniable evidence to support your argument.
Here are some key quotes:
1. Cranial analysis show the Ancient Egyptians have biological affinities with tropical ("Black") Africans.
Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Kushites, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans.
2. Limb Ratio analysis shows that the Ancient Egyptians had tropical body plans.
Another source of skeletal data is limb proportions, which generally vary with different climatic belts. In general, the early Nile Valley remains have the proportions of more tropical populations, which is noteworthy since Egypt is not in the tropics. This suggests that the Egyptian Nile Valley was not primarily settled by cold-adapted peoples, such as Europeans.
3. Archeological and Linguistic Data Support an indigenious African geographic origin for the culture.
Early Nile Valley populations were primarily coextensive with indigenous African populations. Linguistic and archaeological data provide key supporting evidence for a primarily African origin.
Here are some key quotes: Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Kushites, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans. [/QUOTE]
Let's start with this one. In what way does it prove conclusively that dynastic Egyptians were black Africans? It comments on a southern predynastic people having the crania that was usually more similar to Nubians, Kushites, Saharans and so on. I have no problem with this. That they found the crania of people that resemble other southernly Africans is not surprising. It's like digging up an ancient Native American burial ground 6000 years from now and concluding that The United States of America and It's Constitution was founded by a red skinned mongoloid type of people. It doesn't prove anything.
It also states that the crania was usually more similar. Does that entail that they found crania that was different? There were other types of crania?
It also states that the northern dynastic Egyptians had crania that was dissimilar to the predynastic skulls found in the south.
Am I missing something? Does this constitute absolute proof for your argument? So where am I to find proof here?
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Let's start with this one. In what way does it prove conclusively that dynastic Egyptians were black Africans? It comments on a southern predynastic people having the crania that was usually more similar to Nubians, Kushites, Saharans and so on. I have no problem with this. That they found the crania of people that resemble other southernly Africans is not surprising. It's like digging up an ancient Native American burial ground 6000 years from now and concluding that The United States of America and It's Constitution was founded by a red skinned mongoloid type of people. It doesn't prove anything.
There is no good evidence of a major change in the Egyptian population at the beginning of the dynastic period. There is, however, evidence of change during the Late Period.
Again, where are your answers to this?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Let's start with this one. In what way does it prove conclusively that dynastic Egyptians were black Africans? It comments on a southern predynastic people having the crania that was usually more similar to Nubians, Kushites, Saharans and so on. I have no problem with this. That they found the crania of people that resemble other southernly Africans is not surprising. It's like digging up an ancient Native American burial ground 6000 years from now and concluding that The United States of America and It's Constitution was founded by a red skinned mongoloid type of people. It doesn't prove anything.
It also states that the crania was usually more similar. Does that entail that they found crania that was different? There were other types of crania?
It also states that the northern dynastic Egyptians had crania that was dissimilar to the predynastic skulls found in the south.
Am I missing something? Does this constitute absolute proof for your argument? So where am I to find proof here?
The Southern Pre-Dynastic people are the architects of Ancient Egyptian Civilization. It is from this region that the culture developed and from these people that the early rulers of Ancient Egypt come from.
The analyses of the crania studied suggest that genetic continuity occurs over the Egyptian Predynastic and EDyn periods. The study also indicates that a relatively high level of genetic differentiation was sustained over this time period. This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential in-migration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK.
- Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State (2007)
Dynastic Northern Egyptians were found to be craniometrically intermediate between Europeans and Tropical Africans. This is attributed to micro-evolution and migration rather than hybridization. They are still Biologically African.
The upper Nile Valley series show close affinities to one another and to tropical African series. Thus variation is also present in the Egyptian Nile Valley, as the northern pattern trend is distinguishable from the southern one. The Badari and Nagada I cranial patterns emerge as tropical African variants (with Kerma). Badari remains show little affinity to the mass of Maghreban crania. Notable Nagada/Kerma metric overlap is observed with the first dynasty series, which shares the pattern to a lesser degree, as indicated by its centroid values. In summary, canonical variate analysis demonstrates the impressive variation suggested previously for early northern Africa. It also suggests that there was a modal craniometric phenotype common to northern Egypt and the coastal Maghreb in the mid- Holocene, intermediate to European and southern Egyptian Nile Valley/tropical series.
- Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa (1990) Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Let's start with this one. In what way does it prove conclusively that dynastic Egyptians were black Africans? It comments on a southern predynastic people having the crania that was usually more similar to Nubians, Kushites, Saharans and so on. I have no problem with this. That they found the crania of people that resemble other southernly Africans is not surprising. It's like digging up an ancient Native American burial ground 6000 years from now and concluding that The United States of America and It's Constitution was founded by a red skinned mongoloid type of people. It doesn't prove anything.
It also states that the crania was usually more similar. Does that entail that they found crania that was different? There were other types of crania?
It also states that the northern dynastic Egyptians had crania that was dissimilar to the predynastic skulls found in the south.
Am I missing something? Does this constitute absolute proof for your argument? So where am I to find proof here?
The Southern Pre-Dynastic people are the architects of Ancient Egyptian Civilization. It is from this region that the culture developed and from these people that the early rulers of Ancient Egypt come from.
The analyses of the crania studied suggest that genetic continuity occurs over the Egyptian Predynastic and EDyn periods. The study also indicates that a relatively high level of genetic differentiation was sustained over this time period. This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with in-migration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential in-migration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK.
- Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State (2007)
Dynastic Northern Egyptians were found to be craniometrically intermediate between Europeans and Tropical Africans. This is attributed to micro-evolution and migration rather than hybridization. They are still Biologically African.
The upper Nile Valley series show close affinities to one another and to tropical African series. Thus variation is also present in the Egyptian Nile Valley, as the northern pattern trend is distinguishable from the southern one. The Badari and Nagada I cranial patterns emerge as tropical African variants (with Kerma). Badari remains show little affinity to the mass of Maghreban crania. Notable Nagada/Kerma metric overlap is observed with the first dynasty series, which shares the pattern to a lesser degree, as indicated by its centroid values. In summary, canonical variate analysis demonstrates the impressive variation suggested previously for early northern Africa. It also suggests that there was a modal craniometric phenotype common to northern Egypt and the coastal Maghreb in the mid- Holocene, intermediate to European and southern Egyptian Nile Valley/tropical series.
- Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa (1990)
And here we have it ladies and gentlemen, an admission that ancient Egypt had its outside influences. Thank you very much. Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: And here we have it ladies and gentlemen, an admission that ancient Egypt had its outside influences. Thank you very much.
It doesn't say in-migration from outside of Egypt. They're referring to migration from Northern Egypt to the South after the unification of the two kingdoms.
Eventually Asiatics and Europeans did immigrate to Egypt during the Dynastic period. I'm not denying that but they were a minority.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: give me evidence to beleive that, and even if I believe you why we did not see a guy from Rome enslave another guy from Rome or why people in the same city did not enslave each other?!
You can read all about slavery here. And they did in slave people from their own cities. Sometimes people owed debt and had to sell themselves into slavery.
quote:it is the same but face it, yes other nations were captured but they were servants ,slaves were only black(no offense again)
This isn't true at all. I suggest you do a bit more reading about slavery and history.
Anyway ,I am not going to beleive History and deny what is written in the BIBLE and TORAH and Islam that Egypt that time had a slave market?for example look at Israel story
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
Again, why do you people keep falling for baits?
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: Greeks did enslave other Greeks
give me evidence to beleive that, and even if I believe you why we did not see a guy from Rome enslave another guy from Rome or why people in the same city did not enslave each other?!
^ LOL It's ironic because the Greeks are infamous in history for being perhaps the only people in the ancient world who extensively enslaved members of their own ethnicity!
By the way, I find it ironic though not surprising in the least that in Kemp's leaving another racist idiot appears in his wake who is just as if not more dumb.
Speaking of which...
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: The whole point is about race my friend, they wouldn't even stick their noses in any research unless it's racial related "black" in particular, just like Martin Luther King, he only fought for civil rights as long as they are for HIS people, but did he fight for Latinos, white women or any other minority groups? of course NOT!
Of course you're wrong as usual and what you say is nothing but a lie.
Martin Luther King fought for the rights of *all* people, even though his focus was for blacks in the south who at that time were the most oppressed! He specifically spoke for the justice and equality of all people from people of color in general (not just blacks) to Jews and women.
Of course an ignorant negrophobe like you wouldn't know that. You don't know anything about black people famous and historical or otherwise except the silly stereotypes that were fed to you by your ignorant parents and friends. Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: And here we have it ladies and gentlemen, an admission that ancient Egypt had its outside influences. Thank you very much.
Put it this way, are any modern day "near easterners" or Europeans tropically adapted? If so, I'd love to know who these individuals are, can you elaborate on this issue?
If not, then we know for sure (which we already do) that there were no "outside influences" from any individuals of whom were not tropically adapted Africans. Plain and simple.
Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions Sonia R. Zakrzewski*
The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations. Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: This btw is a more historically accurate portrayl of Jesus.
No way!! Jesus was beautiful
Yeah I kinda pictured him to look more like Jim Morrison or something alot prettier than that. lol
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: And here we have it ladies and gentlemen, an admission that ancient Egypt had its outside influences. Thank you very much.
Put it this way, are any modern day "near easterners" or Europeans tropically adapted? If so, I'd love to know who these individuals are, can you elaborate on this issue?
If not, then we know for sure (which we already do) that there were no "outside influences" from any individuals of whom were not tropically adapted Africans. Plain and simple.
Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body Proportions Sonia R. Zakrzewski*
The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.
And to add to your data- Raxter and Ruff 2008, used mostly northern samples of the ancients in head to head comparisons between ancient Egyptians and US blacks and Whites. The result- the ancient Egyptians were closer to tropically adapted peoples like US blacks than Whites. This data confirms studies 20 years over 20 years prior like Robins and Shute et al), and E. Trinkhaus on modern Egyptians. Trinkhaus found the moderns to be closer to tropically adapted peoples like US blacks, Pygmies etc in terms of limb proportions than to American or European whites. No matter how they slice it - ancient or modern Egyptians more closely resemble dark skinned tropically adapted peoples (who themselves are a diverse lot) than whites.
You had a blurb on an old post as to why limb proportions were more stable and changed less that cranial other data. Can you rerun it?
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718 Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.[/i] [/QB]
And here we have the answer.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
Also read the whole study to learn how the Egyptians tended more towards the negroid phenotype as time continued on in the history of Egypt. This invariably suggests a lesser and lesser negroid phenotype in earlier Egypt.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Yeah I kinda pictured him to look more like Jim Morrison or something alot prettier than that. lol
[/QB]
There's no passage in the Bible that describes Jesus as handsome. Imagining him as such is just your imagination and likely influenced by the iconic pictures of him displayed around the world as a long-haired pretty boy. The Bible actually describes Jesus as an ordinary looking man.
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. (Isaiah 53:2)
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
This what is so annoying wth these clowns like Simple girl, Lucoan etc. They come ere with the Hollywood inspired perception.
No froging knowledge of history, linguistics, archeology etc. They cannot even cite reputeable sources from wger they get their BS from. Just talk and hollywood BS. Gawd!!
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Also read the whole study to learn how the Egyptians tended more towards the negroid phenotype as time continued on in the history of Egypt. This invariably suggests a lesser and lesser negroid phenotype in earlier Egypt.
^ why the f!ck is anyone even taking this girl seriously?
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Xyyman wrote:
quote:This what is so annoying wth these clowns like Simple girl, Lucoan etc. They come ere with the Hollywood inspired perception.
No froging knowledge of history, linguistics, archeology etc. They cannot even cite reputeable sources from wger they get their BS from. Just talk and hollywood BS. Gawd!!
Lucky luciano in his racist frolic questioned why blacks shaved their heads (forget the glaring generalization). He claims to be Egyptian, which I don't doubt, but not even vaguely aware of the fact that head-shaving was also widely practiced by the AE's. He also offered his opinion that Yul Brynner was the perfect Ramses in the movie the 10 Comandments. Yet he was somehow un-aware of the context of the movie later in the same thread when he went on with a racist diatribe about blacks and slavery. Lucky's sidekick Ahmad never heard of Greek slavery. The most famous slave revolt in history led by Spartacus the Greek slave. Yet he never heard of slavery among Greeks.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Bogle wrote:
quote:^ why the f!ck is anyone even taking this girl seriously?
Good question. Especially after she wrote:
quote:Is that an actual tan line around the bottom of his neck?
[
One must suppose that he walked around with a bag over his head.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: This btw is a more historically accurate portrayl of Jesus.
No way!! Jesus was beautiful
Yeah I kinda pictured him to look more like Jim Morrison or something alot prettier than that. lol
I am not kidding,In Islam Jesus was really beautiful
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Xyyman wrote:
quote:This what is so annoying wth these clowns like Simple girl, Lucoan etc. They come ere with the Hollywood inspired perception.
No froging knowledge of history, linguistics, archeology etc. They cannot even cite reputeable sources from wger they get their BS from. Just talk and hollywood BS. Gawd!!
Lucky luciano in his racist frolic questioned why blacks shaved their heads (forget the glaring generalization). He claims to be Egyptian, which I don't doubt, but not even vaguely aware of the fact that head-shaving was also widely practiced by the AE's. He also offered his opinion that Yul Brynner was the perfect Ramses in the movie the 10 Comandments. Yet he was somehow un-aware of the context of the movie later in the same thread when he went on with a racist diatribe about blacks and slavery. Lucky's sidekick Ahmad never heard of Greek slavery. The most famous slave revolt in history led by Spartacus the Greek slave. Yet he never heard of slavery among Greeks.
I do not facken care about the facken slavery in Greek or Rome !! I care about what was in Egypt! And There is a question for you,if the ancient egyptians were africans ,why the heck they depicted themselves in a picture so different from the Africans depicted on the walls????
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Did i set them on fire or what?! Now they have to dig deeper in history to come up with an exception to support their point!! Let's put it this way, when i think of Egyptians, Greeks and Romans i don't think of slavery!! Also, i'm not racist i just hate IDIOTS, that's all Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I do not facken care about the facken slavery in Greek or Rome !! I care about what was in Egypt! And There is a question for you,if the ancient egyptians were africans ,why the heck they depicted themselves in a picture so different from the Africans depicted on the walls???
They depicted themselves differently from all of their neighbors. Notice that they are the 2nd darkest group on this mural. Nubians were also depicted in some art with reddish-brown skin as well as jet-black.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
And how did you know they were Nubians????????? in addition, has it occurred to you that the tan color that appears on their skin might have been from working on the sun all day and this what they would like to be represented with since they spend most of their day outdoors!!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: And how did you know they were Nubians????????? in addition, has it occur to you that the tan color that appears on their skin might have been from working on the sun all day???
We know they were Nubians because the hieroglyphics label them as such.
They're not tan. Brown is a natural skin color. Black Africans come in varying shades of brown.
And we know it isn't simply a sun tan because they are much darker than the Libyans and Asiatics at the same latitude.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
You either are stupid or you think we are stupid!! "Black Africans come in varying shades of brown"?? are you referring to today's black Americans? And what did the "the hieroglyphics label" tell you about them? their jobs, lifestyle, etc.??
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: And how did you know they were Nubians????????? in addition, has it occur to you that the tan color that appears on their skin might have been from working on the sun all day???
We know they were Nubians because the hieroglyphics label them as such.
They're not tan. Brown is a natural skin color. Black Africans come in varying shades of brown.
And we know it isn't simply a sun tan because they are much darker than the Libyans and Asiatics at the same latitude.
you have to see the White Egyptians turn into Bloody Black Africans after one month in the Army or you should come to see Egyptian farmers who turn completely black from all day work
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
quote:Now they have to dig deeper in history to come up with an exception to support their point
No digging involved. For anyone with so much as a 5th grade education knowledge of Hebrew slavery and of the slave revolt led by Spartacus is axiomatic.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I do not facken care about the facken slavery in Greek or Rome !! I care about what was in Egypt! And There is a question for you,if the ancient egyptians were africans ,why the heck they depicted themselves in a picture so different from the Africans depicted on the walls???
They depicted themselves differently from all of their neighbors. Notice that they are the 2nd darkest group on this mural. Nubians were also depicted in some art with reddish-brown skin as well as jet-black.
So you admit that! great we are making some progress in this board,remember being black or black brown does mot mean you are an African,and since you admit that they depicted themselves differently why the nose and the face are so different?!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: You either are stupid or you think we are stupid!! "Black Africans come in varying shades of brown"?? are you referring to today's black Americans? And what did the "the hieroglyphics label" tell you about them? their jobs, lifestyle, etc.??
Africans come in varying shades without foreign admixture. Look at the yellow-skinned San deep in the heart of Africa.
This is the contrast in skintone that I believe the Ancient Egyptians were conveying:
Egyptian
Nubian
As for the Nubian they don't have a job title it's a distinct ethnicity.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: So you admit that! great we are making some progress in this board,remember being black or black brown does mot mean you are an African,and since you admit that they depicted themselves differently why the nose and the face are so different?! [/QB]
I don't see a difference in their nose in this picture. The Nubian's jaws look slightly longer but not significantly so.
Are you going to ignore the fact that the Egyptians look striking different from the Asiatics and Libyans?
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Another funny photo of Eddie Murphy being the pharaoh, oh man, this is hilarious!! am i the only person on this board to think this guy is putting the rope around his own neck with all those dumb photos to be "evidence"?? If the Libyans had a brighter civilization i'm sure you would have claimed them to be blacks as well, eh? It's amazing they are neighbors and they are light skinned Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Morpheus wrote:
quote:Are you going to ignore the fact that the Egyptians look striking different from the Asiatics and Libyans?
They also despised Libyans and Asiatics, unlike modern so-called Egyptians. Recall the Prophecy of Neferti attributed to, the reign of Snefru, an Old Kingdom Pharaoh; written by/for Amenemhet, a middle Kingdom Pharaoh; and widely distributed in the New Kingdom where 22 copies were found.
quote:Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the just)fied, by name, Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt. He will take the white crown, He will wear the red crown; He will join the Two Mighty Ones, He will please the Two Lords with what they wish, With field-circler in his fist, oar in his grasp. Rejoice, O people of his time, The son of man will make his name for all eternity! The evil-minded, the treason-plotters, They suppress their speech in fear of him; Asiatics will fall to his sword, Libyans will fall to his flame, Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might, As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him. One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler, To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt; They shall beg water as supplicants,
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Another funny photo of Eddie Murphy being the pharaoh, oh man, this is hilarious!! am i the only person on this board to think this guy is putting the rope around his own neck with all those dumb photos to be "evidence"??
I've already provided several studies as my evidence.
Don't be stupid. I posted the Murphy/Iman photo to give a real life portrayal of the contrast in skintone I think the image is conveying.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: So you admit that! great we are making some progress in this board,remember being black or black brown does mot mean you are an African,and since you admit that they depicted themselves differently why the nose and the face are so different?!
I don't see a difference in their nose in this picture. The Nubian's jaws look slightly longer but not significantly so.
Are you going to ignore the fact that the Egyptians look striking different from the Asiatics and Libyans? [/QB]
how can you do not see the difference in the nose and the chin? look at the chin and the nose of each group I am not talking about any color right now
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Another funny photo of Eddie Murphy being the pharaoh, oh man, this is hilarious!! am i the only person on this board to think this guy is putting the rope around his own neck with all those dumb photos to be "evidence"??
I've already provided several studies as my evidence.
Don't be stupid. I posted the Murphy/Iman photo to give a real life portrayal of the contrast in skintone I think the image is conveying.
So far you haven't provided any respected evidence as far as i'm and all the people with a minimal intelligence's concerned!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: So you admit that! great we are making some progress in this board,remember being black or black brown does mot mean you are an African,and since you admit that they depicted themselves differently why the nose and the face are so different?!
I don't see a difference in their nose in this picture. The Nubian's jaws look slightly longer but not significantly so.
Are you going to ignore the fact that the Egyptians look striking different from the Asiatics and Libyans?
how can you do not see the difference in the nose and the chin? look at the chin and the nose of each group I am not talking about any color right now
I acknowledged the longer chins of the Nubians.
But a we know Africans have a variety of craniofacial features. There is artwork where Egyptians depict themselves with prognathous jaws.
The Sphinx being a prime example.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: So far you haven't provided any respected evidence as far as i'm and all the people with a minimal intelligence's concerned!
The highly intelligent posters recognize credible evidence when they see it.
I posted an essay from an anthropologist who is an expert on Egyptian crania and several anthropological studies.
You didn't have a rebuttal to the evidence all you did was whine about one of the scholars being Black.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Oh yea a retired NYPD detective Domingo is a well "respected scientist" in which we shouldn't question his credibility!! keep digging Again, your desperation is making me laugh hard Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Oh yea a retired NYPD detective Domingo is a well "respected scientist" in which we shouldn't question his credibility!! keep digging Again, your desperation is making me laugh hard
Domingo is a professional forensic sketch artist. He's able to draw a profile of a person in minute detail. He was consulted to compare the profiles of The Sphinx and The Pharaoh Khafre to see if they were depictions of the same person.
You can laugh as hard as you want. That's what clowns do but you have no rebuttal to the evidence I posted on the previous pages.
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Also read the whole study to learn how the Egyptians tended more towards the negroid phenotype as time continued on in the history of Egypt. This invariably suggests a lesser and lesser negroid phenotype in earlier Egypt.
Well, here's the point simple girl, cranio-facial characteristics can be misinterpreted with old outdated labels such as "Caucasoid" and "Negroid", but the point and difference with a study on limb proportions is that it can not be miscontsrued regardless of the results these individuals are either cold or tropically adapted in this case the ancient Egyptians tested all came back as being extremely tropical adapted.
I don't care if you wanna say they didn't look Negroid blah blah blah, point is they were tropically adapted Africans, as you should already know Egypt doesn't lie in the tropics and so hence the closest place these individuals who share common cultural, linguistic and genetic compatibility with other Africans.....could have only came from the south!!
Case closed, check mate; YOU LOSE!
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: So you admit that! great we are making some progress in this board,remember being black or black brown does mot mean you are an African,and since you admit that they depicted themselves differently why the nose and the face are so different?!
I don't see a difference in their nose in this picture. The Nubian's jaws look slightly longer but not significantly so.
Are you going to ignore the fact that the Egyptians look striking different from the Asiatics and Libyans?
how can you do not see the difference in the nose and the chin? look at the chin and the nose of each group I am not talking about any color right now
I acknowledged the longer chins of the Nubians.
But a we know Africans have a variety of craniofacial features. There is artwork where Egyptians depict themselves with prognathous jaws.
The Sphinx being a prime example.
You said it.it is ARTWORK so pics do not imply anything
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^Then how about the real thing:
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Yea, how about it???
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
Still ARTWORK In my opinion ,we can only work on mummies to figure out who the Egyptians were
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
When you and Ahmad have your reunion in September go take a look at it and take in the "negroid" face of old Kemet.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
Here is Khafra's profile!!! (Sphinx that is) doesn't look like a brotha to me!!! And if the statue can only talk, he would have screamed "I'M NOT BLACK!!!!" Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
You sure brothas don't look like that.
Well as for Khafre saying "I'm not black" I invite you to look at all the Osiris statues of the Pharaohs where they in fact depict themselves jet black in effect saying: We are black.
You need to familiarize yourself with a subject before you engage in arguments about it otherwise you look foolish.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: You said it.it is ARTWORK so pics do not imply anything
You asked me why they depicted Nubians with more pronounced chins and I pointed out that alot of Egyptian artwork also had broad features. You guys are the ones who brought up artwork. This is what Keita has to say about art:
Art objects are not generally used by biological anthropologists. They are suspect as data and their interpretation highly dependent on stereotyped thinking. However, because art has often been used to comment on the physiognomies of ancient Egyptians, a few remarks are in order. A review of literature and the sculpture indicates characteristics that also can be found in the Horn of (East) Africa (see, e.g., Petrie 1939; Drake 1987; Keita 1993). Old and Middle Kingdom statuary shows a range of characteristics; many, if not most, individuals depicted in the art have variations on the narrow-nosed, narrow-faced morphology also seen in various East Africans. This East African anatomy, once seen as being the result of a mixture of different "races," is better understood as being part of the range of indigenous African variation.
- The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians
It's this evidence that Luciano fears to address:
Scientists have been studying remains from the Egyptian Nile Valley for years. Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times (see Thoma 1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Kushites, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans.
Another source of skeletal data is limb proportions, which generally vary with different climatic belts. In general, the early Nile Valley remains have the proportions of more tropical populations, which is noteworthy since Egypt is not in the tropics. This suggests that the Egyptian Nile Valley was not primarily settled by cold-adapted peoples, such as Europeans.
- The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: You sure?
Yes i'm sure, this guy is ugly!!
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: When you and Ahmad have your reunion in September go take a look at it and take in the "negroid" face of old Kemet.
Why do you have to spy on our old posts?? specially when they were in a totally different section!! very interested in me?!!
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Spy? That's a curious word since the internet is a public forum. Didn't you realize that? I routinely read the other sections.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
I would be reading all sections if i was intimidated by someone too Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Well all I can say is its obvious from your posts that reading is something you desperately need to do more.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
True, who is not desperate for more knowledge? But i wouldn't call your garbage "reading"!! What you guys do here isn't a debate, it's rather argument, discriminating against all the facts and keep going in circles isn't getting you anywhere! You know darn well what the truth is and you probably have access to the absulte truth about the ancient Egypt and i say that because with a minimal effort and i can provide you with tons and tons of pictures like posted above of Khafra to prove you're wrong!!
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Here is Khafra's profile!!! (Sphinx that is) doesn't look like a brotha to me!!! And if the statue can only talk, he would have screamed "I'M NOT BLACK!!!!"
it seems black to me Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
quote:True, who is not desperate for more knowledge? But i wouldn't call your garbage "reading"!! What you guys do here isn't a debate, it's rather argument, discriminating against all the facts and keep going in circles isn't getting you anywhere! You know darn well what the truth is and you probably have access to the absulte truth about the ancient Egypt and i say that because with a minimal effort and i can provide you with tons and tons of pictures like posted above of Khafra to prove you're wrong!!
Your anti black racism has rendered you blind, deaf and dumb.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
I am talking about the facial features Ahmed, please get a new eye prescription Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^ Your buddy Ahmad was attempting sarcasm. He doesn't really think it black.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse:
quote:True, who is not desperate for more knowledge? But i wouldn't call your garbage "reading"!! What you guys do here isn't a debate, it's rather argument, discriminating against all the facts and keep going in circles isn't getting you anywhere! You know darn well what the truth is and you probably have access to the absulte truth about the ancient Egypt and i say that because with a minimal effort and i can provide you with tons and tons of pictures like posted above of Khafra to prove you're wrong!!
Your anti black racism has rendered you blind, deaf and dumb.
Please man don't let this "racism" word overpower your vocabulary!!!
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: True, who is not desperate for more knowledge? But i wouldn't call your garbage "reading"!! What you guys do here isn't a debate, it's rather argument, discriminating against all the facts and keep going in circles isn't getting you anywhere! You know darn well what the truth is and you probably have access to the absulte truth about the ancient Egypt and i say that because with a minimal effort and i can provide you with tons and tons of pictures like posted above of Khafra to prove you're wrong!!
It's funny how early in this thread you said that all we could do is picture spam for evidence and that is exactly what you are doing. You're doing exactly what Keita cautioned against when looking at art. Using stereotyped thinking.
Narrow noses and faces are common in Northeast Africa. They have been dubbed by anthropologists as Elongated features.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: ^ Your buddy Ahmad was attempting sarcasm. He doesn't really think it black.
I take this as an acknowledgment You actually knew he was being sarcastic? Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
double post
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Yes Luciano, understanding sarcasm is a basic skill to those who know how to read.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: True, who is not desperate for more knowledge? But i wouldn't call your garbage "reading"!! What you guys do here isn't a debate, it's rather argument, discriminating against all the facts and keep going in circles isn't getting you anywhere! You know darn well what the truth is and you probably have access to the absulte truth about the ancient Egypt and i say that because with a minimal effort and i can provide you with tons and tons of pictures like posted above of Khafra to prove you're wrong!!
It's funny how early in this thread you said that all we could do is picture spam for evidence and that is exactly what you are doing. You're doing exactly what Keita cautioned against when looking at art. Using stereotyped thinking.
Narrow noses and faces are common in Northeast Africa. They have been dubbed by anthropologists as Elongated features.
Stop being ignorant and compare the overall facial features the jawbones in particular
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Stop being ignorant and compare the overall facial features the jawbones in particular
I am comparing their overall features. Both of them have small jaws. The point is that Khafre's features do not necessarily make him non-Black. Narrow noses and faces are common among tropical East African and do not necessarily reflect Eurasian ancestry.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: ^Then how about the real thing:
I take it you do know that the head has been reworked several times? The face doesn't constitute proof of anything. It's actually quite a poor argument.
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
^^^As if anything you've presented has had any merit?
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Also read the whole study to learn how the Egyptians tended more towards the negroid phenotype as time continued on in the history of Egypt. This invariably suggests a lesser and lesser negroid phenotype in earlier Egypt.
Well, here's the point simple girl, cranio-facial characteristics can be misinterpreted with old outdated labels such as "Caucasoid" and "Negroid", but the point and difference with a study on limb proportions is that it can not be miscontsrued regardless of the results these individuals are either cold or tropically adapted in this case the ancient Egyptians tested all came back as being extremely tropical adapted.
I don't care if you wanna say they didn't look Negroid blah blah blah, point is they were tropically adapted Africans, as you should already know Egypt doesn't lie in the tropics and so hence the closest place these individuals who share common cultural, linguistic and genetic compatibility with other Africans.....could have only came from the south!!
Case closed, check mate; YOU LOSE!
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Stop being ignorant and compare the overall facial features the jawbones in particular
I am comparing their overall features. Both of them have small jaws. The point is that Khafre's features do not necessarily make him non-Black. Narrow noses and faces are common among tropical East African and do not necessarily reflect Eurasian ancestry.
And why NOT white?? Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: Stop being ignorant and compare the overall facial features the jawbones in particular
I am comparing their overall features. Both of them have small jaws. The point is that Khafre's features do not necessarily make him non-Black. Narrow noses and faces are common among tropical East African and do not necessarily reflect Eurasian ancestry.
And why NOT white??
Because archaeology, and bio-anthropology tell us otherwise... once you understand this you'll be much better off.
Posted by Lucky Luciano (Member # 16737) on :
"Tell" who???
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lucky Luciano: "Tell" who???
"Us" as in intelligent folks, who understand said archaeology and bio-anthropology...
I'll ask you since simple girl seems to have no answer;
Put it this way, are any modern day "near easterners" or Europeans tropically adapted? If so, I'd love to know who these individuals are, can you elaborate on this issue? If not, then we know for sure (which we already do) that there were no "outside influences" from any individuals of whom were not tropically adapted Africans. Plain and simple. Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Simple Girl wrote:
quote:I take it you do know that the head has been reworked several times? The face doesn't constitute proof of anything. It's actually quite a poor argument.
The last reworking was obviously done by a crazed afrocentric sculptor trying to rewrite history. (Lucky, I'm being sarcastic)
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Simple Girl wrote:
quote:I take it you do know that the head has been reworked several times? The face doesn't constitute proof of anything. It's actually quite a poor argument.
The last reworking was obviously done by a crazed afrocentric sculptor trying to rewrite history. (Lucky, I'm being sarcastic)
Well it certainly doesn't represent the first work, so you have no argument and neither does anyone else in using the face to prove their point.
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Simple Girl wrote:
quote:I take it you do know that the head has been reworked several times? The face doesn't constitute proof of anything. It's actually quite a poor argument.
The last reworking was obviously done by a crazed afrocentric sculptor trying to rewrite history. (Lucky, I'm being sarcastic)
Well it certainly doesn't represent the first work, so you have no argument and neither does anyone else in using the face to prove their point.
Hmm, I guess you glossed over the fact that the Sphinx exhibits a prognathous jaw?
While also blatantly ignoring the fact that the ancient Egyptians exhibited extremely tropically adapted limb proportions?
...and as far as physical facial features are concerned I guess you gloss over the fact that has been explained to you ad nauseum which is that indigenous Africans do exhibit orthogonal and prognathous profiles which are indicative of adaptation in different environments I.e, hot and humid, compared to hot and dry....
Noted to you again;
Jean Hiernaux, The People of Africa 1975 p.53, 54
"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent of the world range:
only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the head width to head length expressed as a percentage....."
Jean Hiernaux The People of Africa(Peoples of the World Series) 1975
The oldest remains of Homo sapiens sapiens found in East Africa were associated with an industry having similarities with the Capsian. It has been called Upper Kenyan Capsian, although its derivation from the North African Capsian is far from certain. At Gamble's Cave in Kenya, five human skeletons were associated with a late phase of the industry, Upper Kenya Capsian C, which contains pottery. A similar association is presumed for a skeleton found at Olduvai, which resembles those from Gamble's Cave. The date of Upper Kenya Capsian C is not precisely known (an earlier phase from Prospect Farm on Eburru Mountain close to Gamble's Cave has been dated to about 8000 BC); but the presence of pottery indicates a rather later date, perhaps around 400 BC. The skeletons are of very tall people. They had long, narrow heads, and relatively long, narrow faces. The nose was of medium width; and prognathism, when present, was restricted to the alveolar, or tooth-bearing, region......all their features can be found in several living populations of East Africa, like the Tutsi of Rwanda and Burundi, who are very dark skinned and differ greatly from Europeans in a number of body proportions.............From the foregoing, it is tempting to locate the area of differentiation of these people in the interior of East Africa. There is every reason to believe that they are ancestral to the living 'Elongated East Africans'. Neither of these populations, fossil and modern, should be considered to be closely related to the populations of Europe and western Asia.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Simple Girl wrote:
quote:I take it you do know that the head has been reworked several times? The face doesn't constitute proof of anything. It's actually quite a poor argument.
The last reworking was obviously done by a crazed afrocentric sculptor trying to rewrite history. (Lucky, I'm being sarcastic)
Well it certainly doesn't represent the first work, so you have no argument and neither does anyone else in using the face to prove their point.
Hmm, I guess you glossed over the fact that the Sphinx exhibits a prognathous jaw?
While also blatantly ignoring the fact that the ancient Egyptians exhibited extremely tropically adapted limb proportions?
And I guess you glossed over the fact that the body area is much larger than the head when they are proportioned together. The body is also way more worn than the head despite having been buried in the sand while the head has been exposed to the wind.
These two relevant factors by themselves logically suggest that the head has been reworked from its original condition.
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: And I guess you glossed over the fact that the body area is much larger than the head when they are proportioned together. The body is also way more worn than the head despite having been buried in the sand while the head has been exposed to the wind.
You're certainly confused, since when I said the body proportions being extremely tropically adapted I was talking about the ancient Egyptian mummies of whom were testes by Sonia Z.
The jaw on the Sphinx has not been eroded nor worked on, and it is prognathous plain and simple.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
The Sphinx is originally thought to represent Khafra. If this is true, then the current face looks nothing like him.
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: The Sphinx is originally thought to represent Khafra. If this is true, then the current face looks nothing like him.
Do you even pay attention?
This was already pointed out by a forensic artist who notes that the Sphinx can not be representative of Khafre since the Sphinx is prognathous and Khafre is not.
Note;
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: The Sphinx being a prime example.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: And I guess you glossed over the fact that the body area is much larger than the head when they are proportioned together. The body is also way more worn than the head despite having been buried in the sand while the head has been exposed to the wind.
These two relevant factors by themselves logically suggest that the head has been reworked from its original condition.
John Anthony West has some interesting theories about the origin of the Sphinx even suggesting that the original head may have been that of a lion.
But the re-structuring of the head is irrelevant. It has had its current appearance since Dynastic times which means the Ancient Egyptians built the head in the likeness of themselves. That's not to say that all Ancient Egyptians looked like this but some of them certainly did and there are plenty more examples of Egyptian art work Broad features.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
Look at how enormous the body would have been to the head. Also look at the erosion around the base. The body looks to be much older and worn than the head. That defies logical explanation if the head hasn't been reworked.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: The Sphinx is originally thought to represent Khafra. If this is true, then the current face looks nothing like him.
Do you even pay attention?
This was already pointed out by a forensic artist who notes that the Sphinx can not be representative of Khafre since the Sphinx is prognathous and Khafre is not.
Note;
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: The Sphinx being a prime example.
I'm actually wondering if you are the one paying attention or not. I never said the head did look like Khafre in its present condition. The whole point I am trying to make, that it has been more than likely reworked. You have no point.
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
^^^"More than likely" is your own opinionated thoughtless doubt, and so has no justification on the point you're trying to make.
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Look at how enormous the body would have been to the head.
Ok, and who's talking about the body of the Sphinx? I'm talking about the jaw being prognathous, nothing else.
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Also look at the erosion around the base. The body looks to be much older and worn than the head.
Again, and?
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: That defies logical explanation if the head hasn't been reworked.
Who are you proposing reworked on it, and how would they shift the jaw to project in this fashion which appears to be original?
Also, how would it defy logical explanation if the body is low to the ground while the head is high?
....and how come you haven't addressed the fact that the ancient Egyptian mummies tested from pre-dynastic throughout all dynastic periods exhibited tropical body plans is beyond me.
What's taking so long?
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
^^I am well aware of the touch ups and revivalization of the Sphinx throughout the years.
Wind, sand and water erosion etc..but you're claiming a total alteration and face shift from an orthogonal profile to that of a prognathous, now again I ask YOU, who would have done this major reconstruction to give the Sphinx a projecting jaw?
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: ^^I am well aware of the touch ups and revivalization of the Spinx throughout the years.
Wind and water erosion etc..but you're claiming a total alteration and face shift from an orthogonal profile to that of a prognathous, now again I ask YOU, who would have done this major reconstruction to give the Sphinx to give it a projecting jaw?
I'm not suggesting the Sphinx looked like anyone in particular. Maybe it looked like someone else that also had a prognathous jaw. Or maybe it looked like a Lions face.
My whole point is that no one can base the current facial features on any idea that it represents all of Egypt since the beginning of its history. Especially considering it is apparent the head has been reworked. That is all. Simple as that
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718: ^^I am well aware of the touch ups and revivalization of the Spinx throughout the years.
Wind and water erosion etc..but you're claiming a total alteration and face shift from an orthogonal profile to that of a prognathous, now again I ask YOU, who would have done this major reconstruction to give the Sphinx to give it a projecting jaw?
I'm not suggesting the Sphinx looked like anyone in particular. Maybe it looked like someone else that also had a prognathous jaw. Or maybe it looked like a Lions face.
My whole point is that no one can base the current facial features on any idea that it represents all of Egypt since the beginning of its history. Especially considering it is apparent the head has been reworked. That is all. Simple as that
You've made no point really other than throwing the same thing that has been around the internet for years, do you really think this is "YOUR POINT"?
Anyway, my point was that a study involving cranio-facial characteristics can be distorted, but the study of limb proportions can not since brachial and crural indices are positively correlated with mean annual temperature, such that high indices are found in tropical groups.
Now this brings us back the the fact that the ancient Egyptians from pre-dynastic Badarians throughout Dynastic Egypt exhibited tropically adapted limb proportions which can only indicate these individuals came from the tropics.
Understand?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: I'm not suggesting the Sphinx looked like anyone in particular. Maybe it looked like someone else that also had a prognathous jaw. Or maybe it looked like a Lions face.
My whole point is that no one can base the current facial features on any idea that it represents all of Egypt since the beginning of its history. Especially considering it is apparent the head has been reworked. That is all. Simple as that
We're not claiming that every Egyptian must have looked like the Sphinx. I brought up the Sphinx because it was a prime example of broad features being present in Ancient Egyptian art. If the head was altered from its original state it's still the Ancient Egyptians who altered it. There are plenty of other statues and paintings that depict Egyptians with Broad features.
The Sphinx was just one example.
The bio-anthropological research suggests that there was a wide range of cranio-facial variation in Ancient Egyptian remains so we should expect diversity in artwork.
But throughout the Dynastic period Ancient Egyptians were generally tropically adapted, indicating that the migrated to the Nile Valley from the tropics and had biological affinities with Tropical Africans as their crania also suggest.
Do you still oppose the claim that the Ancient Egyptians were primarily Black Africans throughout the Dynastic period? If so what argument do you have against our evidence? What counter evidence do you have?
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: I'm not suggesting the Sphinx looked like anyone in particular. Maybe it looked like someone else that also had a prognathous jaw. Or maybe it looked like a Lions face.
My whole point is that no one can base the current facial features on any idea that it represents all of Egypt since the beginning of its history. Especially considering it is apparent the head has been reworked. That is all. Simple as that
We're not claiming that every Egyptian must have looked like the Sphinx. I brought up the Sphinx because it was a prime example of broad features being present in Ancient Egyptian art. If the head was altered from its original state it's still the Ancient Egyptians who altered it. There are plenty of other statues and paintings that depict Egyptians with Broad features.
The Sphinx was just one example.
The bio-anthropological research suggests that there was a wide range of cranio-facial variation in Ancient Egyptian remains so we should expect diversity in artwork.
But throughout the Dynastic period Ancient Egyptians were generally tropically adapted, indicating that the migrated to the Nile Valley from the tropics and had biological affinities with Tropical Africans as their crania also suggest.
Do you still oppose the claim that the Ancient Egyptians were primarily Black Africans throughout the Dynastic period? If so what argument do you have against our evidence? What counter evidence do you have?
Have you seen the Mummy of Ramsees?! It does not like African at all, I am telling you this,we can base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: Have you seen the Mummy of Ramsees?! It does not like African at all,
How many times does the fact that Africans exhibit features that are orthogonal and prognathous due to the environment they adapted in have to be explained to you? Or are you really that slow in processing knowledge?
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I am telling you this,we can base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions
Actually as I have previously mentioned over and over, cranio-facial characteristics and artwork can all be distorted (although Africans exhibit said features).
The basic approach is to study their limb proportions and the ancient Egyptians limb proportions tells us they were tropically adapted Africans.
No way to distort that, sorry.
Posted by Bogle (Member # 16736) on :
Luciana, A'm mad, simpleton = obvious trolls.
"maybe it looked like a Lions face." LOL
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
I will deal with you when I come back
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Never seen people jump through hoops to escape the Truth of How the Ancient Egyptians were Tropically Adapted Africans.
I guess since they can't refute this, the best thing to do is talk around it and claim "Hey the Mummie of Ramses does not look African". How much times have people made it clear, that the shriveled corpse is not a good way of claiming someone as African or Not. Plus we have studies of these Very Same Mummies that state that they in terms of skull shape looked like Nubians.
Of course all this gets ignored and we see the same tired and lame opinions being thrown around that the mummies don't "look" African.
All you can do is beat the Truth into the heads of the Ignorant and Biased.
Ancient Egyptian as an African Language, Egypt as an African Culture
Christopher Ehret Professor of History, African Studies Chair University of California at Los Angeles
Ancient Egyptian civilization was, in ways and to an extent usually not recognized, fundamentally African. The evidence of both language and culture reveals these African roots.
The origins of Egyptian ethnicity lay in the areas south of Egypt.
Sir Alan Gardiner: These were long-headed-dolicocephalic is the learned term-and below even medium stature, but Negroid features are often to be observed. Whatever may be said of the northerners, it is safe to describe the dwellers in Upper Egypt as of essentially African stock , a character always retained despite alien influences brought to bear on them from time to time." (pg. 392; Egypt of the Pharaohs 1966)
X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980).
Courtesy of James Harris and Edward Wente:
In terms of head shape, the XVIV and XX dynasties look more like the early Nubian skulls from the mesolithic with low vaults and sloping, curved foreheads.The XVII and XVIII dynasty skulls are shaped more like modern Nubians with globular skulls and high vaults.
The people who bear the greatest resemblence to the ancient Egyptians, at present, are the Nubians; and next are the Abyssinians; page 530
Edward Lane Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians
The period when sub-Saharan Africa was most influential in Egypt was a time when neither Egypt, as we understand it culturally, nor the Sahara, as we understand it geographically, existed. Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472
Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues
A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2
Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
"Materials and methods In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three types of tissues were sampled from different mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approximately 1550_/1080 BC)..... The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin."
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). Sonia Zakrzewski (2003)
"On the Origin of the Egyptians. Recent work on skeletons and DNA suggests that the people who settled in the Nile valley, like all of humankind, came from somewhere south of the Sahara; they were not (as some nineteenth-century scholars had supposed) invaders from the North." Mary Lefkowitz
Peace
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
Vivant Denon's eye witness description of the sphinx in 1798 before it was defaced.
Any comments?
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
The Sphinx is actually depicted with its nose broken off in 1755:
It is unlikely that the nose was intact in 1798 if this is so. That is more likely an artist's conception.
In 1378 the Arab writer al-Maqrizi mentions that the Sphinx was defaced by a radical Sufi Monk to keep Egyptians from praying at is base which was considered an offense to Islam. It nose and ears were said to have been destroyed.
quote:Originally posted by KING: Never seen people jump through hoops to escape the Truth of How the Ancient Egyptians were Tropically Adapted Africans.
I doubt that the Egyptians were tropically adapted in the sense that you want them to appear, and they still represent at least some of their people like this below.
Peace
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
The people like I posted above represent what was the people that originally brought the ideas for civilization to Egypt. It was probably a fusion of at least 2 different cultures after that. But there were no doubt a European-like people in Egypt.
I've never seen an Ethiopian look like neither picture above. I've never even seen too many modern Egyptians look like the 2 above.
No you're going to have to do more than misrepresent studies to convince me there were no others in Egypt. Any nitwit could see that.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
If the Egyptians were all tropically adapted like their neighbors to the south, they would of primarily all had wide noses and the mummies wouldn't of had the hair they have.
The period in which Egypt changed from a tropical-like area to a desert wouldn't have been enough time to have created changes you all speak of.
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
Wide noses are an adaptation to a moist climate. A climate can be tropical but not moist.
Posted by BrandonP (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I am telling you this,we can base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions
Why do we need pictures and statues when we have bio-anthropological studies?
I see no one here bothered to address the evidence chronicled here.
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: Why do we need pictures and statues when we have bio-anthropological studies?
Because "bio-anthropological studies," is science and only the uninformed is not aware that science is not EXACT and COMPLETE in itself, scientific data keeps changing over the years with new knowledge and therefore is not reliable when dealing with history.
A good example of what I am saying is the case of people who were convicted and imprisoned using scientific data at the time but are now free due to NEW scientific knowledge.
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: The people like I posted above represent what was the people that originally brought the ideas for civilization to Egypt. It was probably a fusion of at least 2 different cultures after that. But there were no doubt a European-like people in Egypt.
I've never seen an Ethiopian look like neither picture above. I've never even seen too many modern Egyptians look like the 2 above.
No you're going to have to do more than misrepresent studies to convince me there were no others in Egypt. Any nitwit could see that.
Simple girl, use the Bible, it has information that backs up your stand. Love it or loathe it, the Bible contains the EYE-WITNESS account of what happened in all those years. The Bible does confirm that the Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land just as they did to the lost tribes of Israel. Today nobody doubts that the ancient Israelites are lost tribes. How do did we know this? Because the Bible told us and Jews without a homeland confirms the Biblical account.
Well then, according to the Bible, the Assyrians pulled the same stunt on the ancient Egyptians that is why today you would find Africa DNA among Greeks and others in Asia, and to cap it all, the folklore of the ancient Romans, Greeks and the Yoruba/Ewe people in West Africa is EXACTLY the same.
Use the Bible girl, and the EYE-WITNESS account it contains explains why you have statues depicting Asia/European looking people among the ancient Egyptians.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I am telling you this,we can base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions
Why do we need pictures and statues when we have bio-anthropological studies?
I see no one here bothered to address the evidence chronicled here.
sorry I forgot the not so the phrase is we can not base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions and by the way I do not admit any theories unless it is based on the DNA and genes,all other discussions about pics,artwork,....are just gossip.
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I am telling you this,we can base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions
Why do we need pictures and statues when we have bio-anthropological studies?
I see no one here bothered to address the evidence chronicled here.
sorry I forgot the not so the phrase is we can not base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions and by the way I do not admit any theories unless it is based on the DNA and genes,all other discussions about pics,artwork,....are just gossip.
Ahmad obviously you did not read the information at the link provided by BrandonP. The evidence there is not based on pictures and statutes as you claim. Try to be an honest debater.
Posted by ** Ahmad** (Member # 16703) on :
quote:Originally posted by Energy:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**:
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by ** Ahmad**: I am telling you this,we can base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions
Why do we need pictures and statues when we have bio-anthropological studies?
I see no one here bothered to address the evidence chronicled here.
sorry I forgot the not so the phrase is we can not base our theories only on some pictures and statues or else it would be just assumptions and by the way I do not admit any theories unless it is based on the DNA and genes,all other discussions about pics,artwork,....are just gossip.
Ahmad obviously you did not read the information at the link provided by BrandonP. The evidence there is not based on pictures and statutes as you claim. Try to be an honest debater.
I have been reading it,it is a long article,and needs time to be refuted
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Also read the whole study to learn how the Egyptians tended more towards the negroid phenotype as time continued on in the history of Egypt. This invariably suggests a lesser and lesser negroid phenotype in earlier Egypt.
What a crock of nonsense..
Let's see the study that backs up this "simpleton" claim... Can you even understand it?
Do you realize the Badari are among the OLDEST POPULATIONS of ancient Egypt and that study after study show them linking more closely with tropical Africans than others.. If you are gonna troll, you have to be more creative. Read below and learn something:
quote:
".. basically a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times... [the] Badarian people, who developed the earliest Predynastic Egyptian culture, already exhibited the mix of North African and Sub-Saharan physical traits that have typified Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985; Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990.. et al.,)... " (F. Yurco "An Egyptological Review," 1996)[11]
"Nutter (1958), using the Penrose statistic, demonstrated that Nagada I and Badari crania, both regarded as Negroid, were almost identical and that these were most similar to the Negroid Nubian series from Kerma studied by Collett (1933).." Keita, S. O. Y, "A brief review of studies and comments on ancient Egyptian biological relationships," Journal International Journal of Anthropology, Springer: Netherlands, ISSN 0393-9383, Issue Volume 10, Numbers 2-3 / April, 1995 , Pages 107-123
"A comparison of Badari to the Naqada and Hierakonpolis samples.. contradicts the idea of a foreign origin for the Naqada.. Evidence in favor of continuity is also demonstrated by comparison of individual samples. Naqada and especially Hierakonpolis share close affinities with First–Second Dynasty Abydos.. These findings do not support the concept of a foreign dynastic ‘‘race’’... Thus, despite increasing foreign influence after the Second Intermediate Period, not only did Egyptian culture remain intact (Lloyd, 2000a), but the people themselves, as represented by the dental samples, appear biologically constant as well." (--Irish, J (2006). "Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic through postdynastic peoples." American Journal of Physical Anthropology 129 (4): 529-43; Hassan, FA. 1988, "The predynastic of Egypt", Journal of World Prehistory 2: 135-185)
Continuity is also affirmed by S. Keita who notes a clustering with tropical Africans further south, as to the Badari, a group excluded by C.L. Brace in his 1993 study. As analyzed by Keita:
"Badari (8) occupies a position closest to the Teita, Gaboon, Nubian, and Nagada series by centroid values and territorial maps. The Nagada and Kerma series are so similar that they are barely distinguishable in the territorial maps; they subsume the the first dynasty series from Abydos. .. The European series stands in notable isolation by centroid score (Tables 2B, 3B, 4B) from African series...5). The Badarian crania have a modal metric phenotype that is clearly “southern”; most classify into the Kerma (Nubian), Gaboon, and Kenyan groups.."
The dental findings as to no proof of any mass influx of Europeans and other foreigners are also confirmed by Keita's further study of the Badari:
"An examination of the distance hierarchies reveals the Badarian series to be more similar to the Teita in both analyses and always more similar to all of the African series than to the Norse and Berg groups (see Tables 3A & 3B and Figure 2)... The Badarian series clusters with the tropical African groups no matter which algorithm is employed (see Figures 3 and 4).. In none of them did the Badarian sample affiliate with the European series." (S.O.Y. Keita. Early Nile Valley Farmers from El-Badari: Aboriginals or "European" Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data. Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005)
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: The Sphinx is actually depicted with its nose broken off in 1755:
It is unlikely that the nose was intact in 1798 if this is so. That is more likely an artist's conception.
I don't know what you see but the picture of the sphinx in 1798 also shows that the nose is not intact, that there is something wrong with it.
I believe the picture drawn in 1798 because it was done by one of Napoleon's men. The French was at war in Egypt at the time and they were the enemy. In the meantime they were heavily into slaving Negroes down south in West Africa. Given this background, why would the French, the enemy of the Africans and negro slavers want to depict the sphinx in an image that glorifies the black man unless the artist was simply giving an honest opinion of what he actually saw?
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Energy wrote:
quote:Simple girl, use the Bible, it has information that backs up your stand. Love it or loathe it, the Bible contains the EYE-WITNESS account of what happened in all those years. The Bible does confirm that the Assyrians and Babylonians ethnically cleansed ancient Egypt and supplanted new people in the land just as they did to the lost tribes of Israel. Today nobody doubts that the ancient Israelites are lost tribes. How do did we know this? Because the Bible told us and Jews without a homeland confirms the Biblical account.
Well then, according to the Bible, the Assyrians pulled the same stunt on the ancient Egyptians that is why today you would find Africa DNA among Greeks and others in Asia, and to cap it all, the folklore of the ancient Romans, Greeks and the Yoruba/Ewe people in West Africa is EXACTLY the same.
You do realize that the Assyrian and Babylonian Empires did not even exist during the Egyptian old Kingdom (the period Simple Girl is refering to - if not earlier to pre-dynastic Egypt) don't you? How can they possibly have "ethnically cleansed" Egyptians as you've claimed during a period they didn't exist? You've advised Simple Girl to look to the bible for corroboration of her mistaken notion that a "European-like" people civilized Egypt. One must then assume that you agree with her.
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Energy wrote: [QUOTE]You've advised Simple Girl to look to the bible for corroboration of her mistaken notion that a "European-like" people civilized Egypt. One must then assume that you agree with her.
I am simply tired to the back teeth of this constant, 'show me a picture of a black looking ancient Egyptian' and I would show you, 'a dozen pictures of white looking ancient Egyptians.'
After watching this seesaw go on for a time I start to ask myself why don't they try other source of information? I know from past experience Morpheus would reject information coming from the Bible so I would not even bother with him. I know Ahmad on the other hand would accept information from the Bible as fact. Hence me asking Simple Girl who is in the Ahmad camp to use the Bible. Hope you understand. This argument would go on forever unless, we change tactics.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^Okay. I understand where you're coming from. Just a note to clarify our tactics: People like Simple Girl, American Patriot, Ahmad, and the like will never be convinced that Ancient Egypt was from its inception black and African. The point is not to try to convince them, since that's a waste of time, but to use their flawed arguments to educate the wider internet audience. All evidence is appropriate at times, even the bible, and I don't mean to denigrate anyone’s faith, but we have quite an august body of facts from various disciplines supporting the claim that Egypt was black and African.
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
Indeed. Its not a claim anymore. Its a fact. The only question remaining now is how we define black. Keita defines them as dark-skinned, tropically adapted peoples.
And ironically, Afrocentric critic C. Loring Brace notes that tropically adapted peoples have dark skin. Quote:
"In this regard it is interesting to note that limb proportions of Predynastic Naqada people in Upper Egypt are reported to be "Super-Negroid," meaning that the distal segments are elongated in the fashion of tropical Africans.....skin color intensification and distal limb elongation are apparent wherever people have been long-term residents of the tropics." (C.L. Brace, 1993. Clines and clusters..")
and what do scientists say when they compare Egyptians ancient or modern to other tropially adapted peoples and whites? The answer is the same every time. The Egyptians, whether ancient or modern, are closer physically to other tropically-adapted dark-skinned peoples like Pygmies or Black Americans than whites.
Other quotes:
"The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983).. This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.
a 2008 study found it so: "Intralimb (crural and brachial) indices are significantly higher in ancient Egyptians than in American Whites (except crural index among females), i.e., Egyptians have relatively longer distal segments (Table 4). Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks... Many of those who have studied ancient Egyptians have commented on their characteristically ‘‘tropical’’ or ‘‘African’’ body plan (Warren, 1897; Masali, 1972; Robins, 1983; Robins and Shute, 1983, 1984, 1986; Zakrzewski, 2003). Egyptians also fall within the range of modern African populations (Ruff and Walker, 1993), but close to the upper limit of modern Europeans as well, at least for the crural index (brachial indices are definitely more ‘‘African’’).. In terms of femoral and tibial length to total skeletal height proportions, we found that ancient Egyptians are significantly different from US Blacks, although still closer to Blacks than to Whites.
Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range. In general, recent studies of skeletal variation among ancient Egyptians support scenarios of biological continuity through time. Irish (2006) analyzed quantitative and qualitative dental traits of 996 Egyptians from Neolithic through Roman periods, reporting the presence of a few outliers but concluding that the dental samples appear to be largely homogeneous and that the affinities observed indicate overall biological uniformity and continuity from Predynastic through Dynastic and Postdynastic periods.
Zakrzewski (2007) provided a comprehensive summary of previous Egyptian craniometric studies and examined Egyptian crania from six time periods. She found that the earlier samples were relatively more homogeneous in comparison to the later groups. However, overall results indicated genetic continuity over the Egyptian Predynastic and Early Dynastic periods, albeit with a high level of genetic diversity within the population, suggesting an indigenous process of state formation. She also concluded that while the biological patterning of the Egyptian population varied across time, no consistent temporal or spatial trends are apparent. Thus, the stature estimation formulae developed here may be broadly applicable to all ancient Egyptian populations.." ("Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: A new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature." Michelle H. Raxter, Christopher B. Ruff, Ayman Azab, Moushira Erfan, Muhammad Soliman, Aly El-Sawaf, (Am J Phys Anthropol. 2008, Jun;136(2):147-55
Studies from the 1980s found it so, and they reference studies going back to the 1950s that found the same thing.. Kemp 2005 notes that northern samples group the Egyptians more closely with Africans than Middle Easterners..
"An attempt has been made to estimate male and female Egyptian stature from long bone length using Trotter & Gleser negro stature formulae, previous work by the authors having shown that these rather than white formulae give more consistent results with male dynastic material... When consistency has been achieved in this way, predynastic proportions are founded to be such that distal segments of the limbs are even longer in relation to the proximal segments than they are in modern negroes. Such proportions are termed "super-negroid"...
Robins (1983) and Robins & Shute (1983) have shown that more consistent results are obtained from ancient Egyptian male skeletons if Trotter & Gleser formulae for negro are used, rather than those for whites which have always been applied in the past. .. their physical proportions were more like modern negroes than those of modern whites, with limbs that were relatively long compared with the trunk, and distal segments that were long compared with the proximal segments. If ancient Egyptian males had what may be termed negroid proportions, it seems reasonable that females did likewise." (Robins G, Shute CCD. 1986. Predynastic Egyptian stature and physical proportions. Hum Evol 1:313–324. Ruff CB. 1994.)
Some quote DNA studies from the 1990s to claim that it can't be so, but the studies so often spammed- Poloni, Hammer, Bosch, Cavalli-Sforza typically suffer from sampling bias, using samples drawn fromt he far north of Egypt, an area near the mediterranean that has seen much more foreign settlement, as "representative" of Egypt.
[b]But it still doesn't make a difference. Poloni hisself found the Egyptians linking more closely with Africans such as Ethiopians than with whites or Middle easterners. No matter how they slice it, the facts remain.
As for the far north, even that swings towards the dark-skinned tropical types. The later coming of the foreign Greeks, Romans, Syrians, Persians, Hyskos, etc etc etc was to change things but in the earlier periods, the closest link was with Africans. Raxter and Ruff 2008 took mostly northern samples. Note the heavy weight given the Giza region below. Results- the ancients linked more closelt with tropical peoples like Black Americans than whites.
No matter how they slice it- the facts remain- Egyptians, whether ancient or modern, group more closely physically to other tropically adapted dark-skinned peoples like Black Americans or African Pygmies, than with whites.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^Excellent summation Zarahan
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: The people like I posted above represent what was the people that originally brought the ideas for civilization to Egypt. It was probably a fusion of at least 2 different cultures after that. But there were no doubt a European-like people in Egypt.
I've never seen an Ethiopian look like neither picture above. I've never even seen too many modern Egyptians look like the 2 above.
No you're going to have to do more than misrepresent studies to convince me there were no others in Egypt. Any nitwit could see that.
We don't need to convince you of anything. If you claim that there was a "European-like" people who brought the ideas to Ancient Egypt then the burden of proof is on you to prove your case.
We have already addressed narrow-nosed and narrow faced busts.
Art objects are not generally used by biological anthropologists. They are suspect as data and their interpretation highly dependent on stereotyped thinking. However, because art has often been used to comment on the physiognomies of ancient Egyptians, a few remarks are in order. A review of literature and the sculpture indicates characteristics that also can be found in the Horn of (East) Africa (see, e.g., Petrie 1939; Drake 1987; Keita 1993). Old and Middle Kingdom statuary shows a range of characteristics; many, if not most, individuals depicted in the art have variations on the narrow-nosed, narrow-faced morphology also seen in various East Africans. This East African anatomy, once seen as being the result of a mixture of different "races," is better understood as being part of the range of indigenous African variation.
- The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians
I'm afraid that you are going to have to do better than post images of unpainted busts and claim that they must be of European descent to convince us of your claims.
Where is the bio-anthropological evidence for this European-like people in Ancient Egypt? How did they migrate to Egypt? When did they migrate to Egypt? Where is the archeological evidence for their settlement? Where is the linguistic evidence for their presence and place of origin? Where is the cultural evidence for their contributions to Ancient Egyptian civilization?
quote:Originally posted by Energy: I don't know what you see but the picture of the sphinx in 1798 also shows that the nose is not intact, that there is something wrong with it.
I believe the picture drawn in 1798 because it was done by one of Napoleon's men. The French was at war in Egypt at the time and they were the enemy. In the meantime they were heavily into slaving Negroes down south in West Africa. Given this background, why would the French, the enemy of the Africans and negro slavers want to depict the sphinx in an image that glorifies the black man unless the artist was simply giving an honest opinion of what he actually saw?
The nose is there, they just drew it with a flat nose bridge. The artist probably wanted to draw the Sphinx as he imagined it looked during construction. Notice that there is no body to the Sphinx in that picture. This could not have been a drawing of the Sphinx as it appeared before the artist's eyes.
If the nose was intact in 1798 why would an artist draw it without a nose in 1755?
There's also the matter of documentation by al-Maqrizi that the Sphinx was defaced in 1378.
As far as why Denon would depict the Sphinx with Broad African features, he likely acknowledged that the Sphinx resembled a Black African. He is not alone. Count Constantin De Volney was outspoken about his realization that the Sphinx was evidence that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
this is what bothers me about the Arguement of Simple Girl. They don't use studies, all they use is eyeball witness and special Pleading. Thats why We have put forth many a studies on the Ancient Egyptians, and Simple just posts a few unpainted Busts and says "Look they look unafrican".
She really thinks her EyeBall witness trumps all the studies we have shown her. It's very Sad.
Peace
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: this is what bothers me about the Arguement of Simple Girl. They don't use studies, all they use is eyeball witness and special Pleading. Thats why We have put forth many a studies on the Ancient Egyptians, and Simple just posts a few unpainted Busts and says "Look they look unafrican".
She really thinks her EyeBall witness trumps all the studies we have shown her. It's very Sad.
Peace
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19425100?dopt=Abstract You continue to refuse studies such as this as evidence simply because you are prejudiced and a racist. You and the others here have already made your minds up so a good spamming of pictures is always worth a thousands or so words.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Simple Girl
Typical stupid pleading by You. How does that Bust show a Non African? Please show the forum how a Statue you posted shows a Non-African.
Also you seem to of ignored what Morpheous Posted: Originally Posted by Morpheus
I'm afraid that you are going to have to do better than post images of unpainted busts and claim that they must be of European descent to convince us of your claims.
Where is the bio-anthropological evidence for this European-like people in Ancient Egypt? How did they migrate to Egypt? When did they migrate to Egypt? Where is the archeological evidence for their settlement? Where is the linguistic evidence for their presence and place of origin? Where is the cultural evidence for their contributions to Ancient Egyptian civilization?
You are almost an emarassment as Patriot. You think CAlling me racist will make your lame and pathetic Arguement more understandable? Your one cherrypicked Source is an Abstract. You will need more then this to prove your point. I know a little about this study so I will repost what another poster who critques these biased studies said:
Good point, Freehand. They couldn't position a European origin to Ancient Egyptian civilization so they are now trying to posit "Near Easterners" in pre-Pharonic Egypt. This study is poor in so many ways. First of all they admit that their sample size is small. Then they go on to admit that this area only has continous occupation from the Roman era! Heck we all know there was a demographic change in Egypt by the Late Period. Their standard deviation for the T1 lineages range from 8771 YBP to the Arab Conquest(5,138 +/- 3,633 YBP)! Finally, the y-chromosome data ignores Nebel et al. So now that your weak attempt at refuting our FACTS you now only have to explain what Morpheus said:
Where is the bio-anthropological evidence for this European-like people in Ancient Egypt? How did they migrate to Egypt? When did they migrate to Egypt? Where is the archeological evidence for their settlement? Where is the linguistic evidence for their presence and place of origin? Where is the cultural evidence for their contributions to Ancient Egyptian civilization?
Hey Simple, Here is a thread that you really should read. Maybe you might actually learn something:
I had to post again, This Simple person is just too much.
She thinks I am racist because I don't see Europeans in a Civilization found in Africa. Bahahahahahahhahahahahaahhaahha
This girl maybe clueless about Africans, but she would make a good comedian. Really simple you are nothing more then a Joke. Again Reread the thread I posted, It speaks about the Study you just posted:
Really Simple the studies you think helps your cause, Have already been studied and refuted by people on these Forums.
Peace
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
sudaniya
Don't waste your time posting Pics to this Simple person. She is now left with posting Pics of blatant Africans to try and claim they are Caucasian. She lost the pic wars before it began.
Simple is just someone you use to show the Facts to the people who read these forums. I know that these people learn alot from the refuting of studies etc. Simple just has her cherrypicked pics and that has already been refuted. I would not post regarding her but because she is just so Simple and Pathetic I really feel sorry for her and hope the brain in her Head makes her realize that no matter how she crys and whines, Egyptians will always be Related to Africans and not Europeans.
Peace
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Just so Simple does not pretend she did not read my Posts Will repost:
Where is the bio-anthropological evidence for this European-like people in Ancient Egypt? How did they migrate to Egypt? When did they migrate to Egypt? Where is the archeological evidence for their settlement? Where is the linguistic evidence for their presence and place of origin? Where is the cultural evidence for their contributions to Ancient Egyptian civilization? Near Eastern Neolithic genetic input in a small oasis of the Egyptian Western Desert http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=001353
Simple use your Brain for once. You have no chance of Winning the Pic wars with Sudaniya.
Peace
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
We have those features in North Africa, so try again Simple Girl.
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Queen of Punt
Those Puntites look exactly like the ancient Egyptians; Punt was somewhere in the horn, Somalia most likely.
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Energy: I don't know what you see but the picture of the sphinx in 1798 also shows that the nose is not intact, that there is something wrong with it.
I believe the picture drawn in 1798 because it was done by one of Napoleon's men. The French was at war in Egypt at the time and they were the enemy. In the meantime they were heavily into slaving Negroes down south in West Africa. Given this background, why would the French, the enemy of the Africans and negro slavers want to depict the sphinx in an image that glorifies the black man unless the artist was simply giving an honest opinion of what he actually saw?
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus:
The nose is there, they just drew it with a flat nose bridge. The artist probably wanted to draw the Sphinx as he imagined it looked during construction. Notice that there is no body to the Sphinx in that picture. This could not have been a drawing of the Sphinx as it appeared before the artist's eyes.
If the nose was intact in 1798 why would an artist draw it without a nose in 1755?
I never said the nose was intact in the image I produced. In fact from what I can see the nose is not intact, look again, Denon painted a broken off nose in the image of 1798. You on the hand claim it is intact and then proceed to build your argument against your claim, citing that an earlier portrait shows the nose is damaged while claiming Denon's is not?
quote: There's also the matter of documentation by al-Maqrizi that the Sphinx was defaced in 1378.
What exactly did al-Maqrizi say? For example did he mention the extent to which the sphinx was defaced?
quote:As far as why Denon would depict the Sphinx with Broad African features, he likely acknowledged that the Sphinx resembled a Black African. He is not alone. Count Constantin De Volney was outspoken about his realization that the Sphinx was evidence that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans.
This comment completely contradicts everything you said so far. If al-Maqrizi claims the sphinx was defaced and you believe what was left was more like the image you produced (an image that incidentally looks more Caucasian than black). The glaring question then is; what was left in the face of the sphinx to make Count Constantin De Volney come to the conclusion that it it was negroid? Do you see the problem? Unless it still retained enough negro features to convince Count Constantin De Volney that it was negroid? If that is the case, then it means Denon's image is the more accurate version and not the image you produced because your image is an European looking Sphinx.
To further support Denons portrait, there is information in what he drew that he could not have just imagined. Do you see the square bands on the crown of the sphinx? Those are typical royal bands (usually made of gold) worn on the head by the Akan royals of West Africa. If Denon was French he may never have encountered any Akan royal to know their regalia so how would he have known to depict the regalia so accurately? To me Denon drew those square bands on the crown of the sphinx, because that is EXACTLY what he must have seen of the Sphinx in reality and that is more reason to see his depiction of the Sphinx as ACCURATE.
Below is an image of a modern male Akan royal wearing the square shaped regalia on his head. Compare it with Denon's portrait and see for yourself the accuracy in what Denon painted.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Energy: I never said the nose was intact in the image I produced. In fact from what I can see the nose is not intact, look again, Denon painted a broken off nose in the image of 1798. You on the hand claim it is intact and then proceed to build your argument against your claim, citing that an earlier portrait shows the nose is damaged while claiming Denon's is not?
You claimed that it hadn't yet been defaced. This is what I assumed you meant by it not being defaced. It still has a nose and doesn't look noticeably damaged to me. That is what I was pointing out.
quote:What exactly did al-Maqrizi say? For example did he mention the extent to which the sphinx was defaced?
He said that the nose and ears were demolished. Details are in the link I provided. The ears are still there as far as I can see but this suggests that the Sphinx was defaced long before the French came into Egypt.
quote:This comment completely contradicts everything you said so far. If al-Maqrizi claims the sphinx was defaced and you believe what was left was more like the image you produced (an image that incidentally looks more Caucasian than black). The glaring question then is; what was left in the face of the sphinx to make Count Constantin De Volney come to the conclusion that it it was negroid? Do you see the problem? Unless it still retained enough negro features to convince Count Constantin De Volney that it was negroid? If that is the case, then it means Denon's image is the more accurate version and not the image you produced because your image is an European looking Sphinx.
How is the image European looking? It depicts the Sphinx with broad cheek bones and a prognathous jaw. The Sphinx still looks Black to many people today so I would certainly believe that this was so in De Volney's time.
Whether you consider the nose to be damaged or not you clearly said that the Sphinx had not been defaced in Denon's picture and I showed you an image depicting the Sphinx defaced which predates that image as well as a source for its defacing long before Denon drew his image.
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: [QUOTE] Whether you consider the nose to be damaged or not you clearly said that the Sphinx had not been defaced in Denon's picture and I showed you an image depicting the Sphinx defaced which predates that image as well as a source for its defacing long before Denon drew his image.
Oh I see where the problem is now. I focus on explaining the nose is damaged while you keep saying the Sphinx was defaced.
I think most people including me would take the word, "DEFACED" literally. Which would mean the face was damaged beyond recognition exactly as the Sphinx looks now.
A damaged nose to me does not mean the Sphinx was 'DEFACED.' A damaged nose simply means a damaged nose but the rest of the face is intact. But when the sphinx has been reduced to how it looks now, I would use the word, 'defaced.' It's a question of semantics I suppose.
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: ]How is the image European looking? It depicts the Sphinx with broad cheek bones and a prognathous jaw. The Sphinx still looks Black to many people today so I would certainly believe that this was so in De Volney's time.
LOL! The following is what you posted. I am a true-blue black man, and I don't see any resemblance to any black person I know in the following image. According to you, the image you posted the Sphinx had broad cheeks? Well we may all see differently because I don't see anything like that at all. Here take a good look, the following is what you posted. Those thin lips certainly shout caucasian to me and nothing about it depicts a black man.
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: The Sphinx is actually depicted with its nose broken off in 1755:
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Energy: LOL! The following is what you posted. I am a true-blue black man, and I don't see any resemblance to any black person I know in the following image. According to you, the image you posted the Sphinx had broad cheeks? Well we may all see differently because I don't see anything like that at all. Here take a good look, the following is what you posted. Those thin lips certainly shout caucasian to me and nothing about it depicts a black man.
His lips look thin sure, but Africans have very diverse looks including narrow noses and faces.
If you look at the Sphinx today it looks very similar to this image.
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Energy:
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: ]How is the image European looking? It depicts the Sphinx with broad cheek bones and a prognathous jaw. The Sphinx still looks Black to many people today so I would certainly believe that this was so in De Volney's time.
LOL! The following is what you posted. I am a true-blue black man, and I don't see any resemblance to any black person I know in the following image. According to you, the image you posted the Sphinx had broad cheeks? Well we may all see differently because I don't see anything like that at all. Here take a good look, the following is what you posted. Those thin lips certainly shout caucasian to me and nothing about it depicts a black man.
quote:Originally posted by Morpheus: The Sphinx is actually depicted with its nose broken off in 1755:
The fallacy in your thinking is that a "black man" has to look a certain way. That is nonsensical given Africa's high genetic diversity. Even the dictionary definition of a 'black person' simply means that in common usage, a 'black person' is a person with black or brown skin. Thin lips in ultra diverse Africa don't "shout Caucasian." That is a model rooted in racism as Keita says below.
Mainstream scientists have moved away increasingly from your stereotypical classifications of what blacks are "supposed" to look like. Africa has the highest genetic diversity in the world, narrows noses, thin lips, curly to straightish hair and even light brown to yellowish skin are all NATIVE to the continent. As S.O.Y Keita notes:
"The living peoples of the African continent are diverse in facial characteristics, stature, skin color, hair form, genetics, and other characteristics. No one set of characteristics is more African than another. Variability is also found in "sub-Saharan" Africa, to which the word "Africa" is sometimes erroneously restricted. There is a problem with definitions. Sometimes Africa is defined using cultural factors, like language, that exclude developments that clearly arose in Africa. For example, sometimes even the Horn of Africa (Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea) is excluded because of geography and language and the fact that some of its peoples have narrow noses and faces.
However, the Horn is at the same latitude as Nigeria, and its languages are African. The latitude of 15 degree passes through Timbuktu, surely in "sub-Saharan Africa," as well as Khartoum in Sudan; both are north of the Horn. Another false idea is that supra-Saharan and Saharan Africa were peopled after the emergence of "Europeans" or Near Easterners by populations coming from outside Africa. Hence, the ancient Egyptians in some writings have been de-Africanized. These ideas, which limit the definition of Africa and Africans, are rooted in racism and earlier, erroneous "scientific" approaches." (S. Keita, "The Diversity of Indigenous Africans," in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko, Editor (1996), pp. 104-105. [10])
As Hiernaux 1975 notes:
[1] Jean Hiernaux, 1975, The People of Africa (Peoples of the World Series)
"The oldest remains of Homo sapiens sapiens found in East Africa were associated with an industry having similarities with the Capsian. It has been called Upper Kenyan Capsian, although its derivation from the North African Capsian is far from certain. At Gamble's Cave in Kenya, five human skeletons were associated with a late phase of the industry, Upper Kenya Capsian C, which contains pottery. A similar association is presumed for a skeleton found at Olduvai, which resembles those from Gamble's Cave. The date of Upper Kenya Capsian C is not precisely known (an earlier phase from Prospect Farm on Eburru Mountain close to Gamble's Cave has been dated to about 8000 BC); but the presence of pottery indicates a rather later date, perhaps around 400 BC. The skeletons are of very tall people. They had long, narrow heads, and relatively long, narrow faces. The nose was of medium width; and prognathism, when present, was restricted to the alveolar, or tooth-bearing, region.....
"..all their features can be found in several living populations of East Africa, like the Tutsi of Rwanda and Burundi, who are very dark skinned and differ greatly from Europeans in a number of body proportions............. From the foregoing, it is tempting to locate the area of differentiation of these people in the interior of East Africa. There is every reason to believe that they are ancestral to the living 'Elongated East Africans'. Neither of these populations, fossil and modern, should be considered to be closely related to the populations of Europe and western Asia."
"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent of the world range: only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the head width to head length expressed as a percentage....." [/i]
Jean Hiernaux, The People of Africa (Encore Editions: 1975), pp. 37-204
Posted by Energy (Member # 16438) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan: The fallacy in your thinking is that a "black man" has to look a certain way. That is nonsensical given Africa's high genetic diversity.
Its not a fallacy, neither is it nonsensical but rather the reality on the ground. Instead of telling people in Africa how they should see themselves or give them a dictionary description of who they are, why don't you accept what THEY the inhabitants tell you is their identity? Not all dark skin people see themselves as negroid. In Africa to be branded as negroid, you have to have certain physical characteristics to qualify.
For example you have on these pages a guy like Ahmad who is Egyptian and would tell you HE IS NOT BLACK. As a fellow African I know that is how the majority of his people see themselves and that is OK as far as I am concerned. To him he is an Arab. His brown or black Egyptian skin does not make him part of those generally referred to as black or Negroid south of the Sahara. Why? Because even though he may be black, it’s the features that count. So you have a situation whereby in the Arab world many of them may be jet black, yet they do not see themselves as negroid or black. You would find the same mentality among Ethiopians and Somalis. Its all down to features. If the thick lips and broad nose are missing, the African person can be as black as night but would not accept the tag, negroid or black man. In a case like this they would rather identify with their ethnicity rather than be labelled as black.
That I am afraid is the reality on the African continent. That is what counts and not what some academic or dictionary has to say on the matter.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
^So according to Energy "black" is actually a referent to dimensions of nose and lips. So we have feet, inches, meters, and now black can be added to the list: all measures of dimension.
Posted by Novel (Member # 14348) on :
quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: ^So according to Energy "black" is actually a referent to dimensions of nose and lips. So we have feet, inches, meters, and now black can be added to the list: all measures of dimension.
Posted by Morpheus (Member # 16203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Energy: Originally posted by zarahan: The fallacy in your thinking is that a "black man" has to look a certain way. That is nonsensical given Africa's high genetic diversity. [/qb]
Its not a fallacy, neither is it nonsensical but rather the reality on the ground. Instead of telling people in Africa how they should see themselves or give them a dictionary description of who they are, why don't you accept what THEY the inhabitants tell you is their identity? Not all dark skin people see themselves as negroid. In Africa to be branded as negroid, you have to have certain physical characteristics to qualify.
For example you have on these pages a guy like Ahmad who is Egyptian and would tell you HE IS NOT BLACK. As a fellow African I know that is how the majority of his people see themselves and that is OK as far as I am concerned. To him he is an Arab. His brown or black Egyptian skin does not make him part of those generally referred to as black or Negroid south of the Sahara. Why? Because even though he may be black, it’s the features that count. So you have a situation whereby in the Arab world many of them may be jet black, yet they do not see themselves as negroid or black. You would find the same mentality among Ethiopians and Somalis. Its all down to features. If the thick lips and broad nose are missing, the African person can be as black as night but would not accept the tag, negroid or black man. In a case like this they would rather identify with their ethnicity rather than be labelled as black.
That I am afraid is the reality on the African continent. That is what counts and not what some academic or dictionary has to say on the matter. [/QUOTE]
Zarahan is explaining to you the actual biological diversity of the African continent. How people self-identify is another story.
Most Africans that I know identify with their nationality or tribe rather than race. They do not prescribe to the Negroid construct believing only those with stereotypical features are authentic Africans.
And many Africans who live in America including dark-skinned Egyptians such as Mostafa Hefny identify as Black so don't generalize.
This Ethiopian girl proudly states that she is 100% Black African and does not accept the arguments of people telling her she is not a true Black person.
quote:For example you have on these pages a guy like Ahmad who is Egyptian and would tell you HE IS NOT BLACK. As a fellow African I know that is how the majority of his people see themselves and that is OK as far as I am concerned. To him he is an Arab. His brown or black Egyptian skin does not make him part of those generally referred to as black or Negroid south of the Sahara. Why? Because even though he may be black, it’s the features that count. So you have a situation whereby in the Arab world many of them may be jet black, yet they do not see themselves as negroid or black. You would find the same mentality among Ethiopians and Somalis. Its all down to features. If the thick lips and broad nose are missing, the African person can be as black as night but would not accept the tag, negroid or black man. In a case like this they would rather identify with their ethnicity rather than be labelled as black.
Curiously enough this kind of classification is not seen to apply to people of East Asian(Sinoid) stock. Their noses, lips,and prognathism index vary as much as those of Africa yet it is not a defining issue.
And again, the notion that the lips and noses of those populations mentioned above(Africans of the Horn) are dissimilar from those of other parts of Africa is just wrong. Somalis tend to have lips that often thicker than of other parts of Africa. Same for Ethiopians. Their nasal indices also match populations from other parts of Africa. What may sometimes more or less slightly different though is the "curl of hair".
On the Sphinx: for those obsessed with "lips"--its lips are similar to millions of Africans--and much more pronounced than say those of well-photographed Africans like Mugabe, Kaunda, Mandela, Tutu, Biya, etc.
Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
Novel posted:
Lol! The classic line from Pogo may indeed apply here. However, I suspect that we may have a little cyber blackface act, a little minstrel show so to speak. Energy is entertaining if nothing else. We learned from his post above that black is not a color but a measure of nose and lip dimensions - in other word spatial demensions. He also makes a broad claim that Ethiopians and Somalis share his(?) aversion to being called black. He has completely overlooked the fact that, whatever may be its roots etymologically, semantically "ethiopian" has, over the past two and a half millenia, always been understood to mean Black-skinned African. The Amharic-dominated modern nation of Ethiopia choose the name knowing its semantic implications. Much the same can be said for Sudan.
Morpheus and Lamin also devastated his claims in their psots above.
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Grow up.
Peace
