I'm posting this prematurely, because I want to leave EgyptSearch and move on......
Sudan's Blood Memory The Legacy of War, Ethnicity, and Slavery in South Sudan Stephanie Beswick
Many societies worldwide possess oral histories and long memories, reaching back many centuries, particularly of wars and events of great trauma. Labeling them "blood memories" in this book, Stephanie Beswick presents a pre-colonial history of Southern Sudan, a region that, according to some, "has no history." Beginning in the fourteenth century, the book follows the region's largest ethnic group today, the Dinka, from their original homelands in the central Sudanese Gezira between the Blue and White Niles, into their more recently adopted homelands in Southern Sudan. Beswick demonstrates how early pre-colonial stresses play a critical role in modern-day South Sudan, in what has since become the world's longest civil war, fought externally against the fundamentalist Islamic Northern Sudanese government as well as internally within the South itself. Stephanie Beswick is professor of history at Ball State University in Muncie, Indiana. She was born in Khartoum, Sudan.
-------------------- The first part of this book details how the Dinka and other Nilotic tribes came from central Sudan about 500 years ago. There is a 25 -27% linguistic relationship between the Dinka language which is Nilo-Saharan and the Ancient Nubian language. The modern so-called "Nubians" are aslo physically related to the "Nubians" of the north.
Dinka scholars and other Sudanese scholars have seen that the Dinka bow and arrows is identical to the Ancient Egpytian bow and arrows. There are many other identical tools used by both AEs and Dinka.
Moreover, the Dinka are jet Black and look like the Nubians depicted in Egyptian drawings.
Posted by Shango / MyRedCow (Member # 10893) on :
This one is covered with a red powder which is like in the pics above.
They are cattle pastoralists like those in Nabta Playa and many customs are similar to the AEs.
Their Y chromosomes are 60% A M13 which is the world's oldest. and B M60 and E M78
The AfroAsiatic speakers including the Beja northern "Nubians" are mixed with J1 and R1b. They cannot be the real Nubians
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
Dinks aren't related to the Nubians you idiot. Dinkas are related to groups like the shilluk, Masaai, Luo, and other "nilotic" groups.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Dinks aren't related to the Nubians you idiot. Dinkas are related to groups like the shilluk, Masaai, Luo, and other "nilotic" groups.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
On October 31, 2007 Djehuti said in arguing with Maahes in Topic: Motion Picture: Goddess of the Sun :
".....You make the claim that the label 'black' as applied to people is not indigenous to Africa but was something created by Europeans. We not only have evidence of indigenous Africans using black as a name for themselves but even the Egyptians themselves since the true name they called themselves was Kememu!" and
"....Again, you associate 'black' with only the darkest Africans like Nilotic peoples such as the Dinkas or Nuers. 'Black' in reference to people does not mean the actual color 'black' (which no humans have, but the darkest like southern Sudanese only come close to having). ' Black' simply means having very dark skin, which most indigenous Africans do have." and later
".....They called their nation Kemet NOT as a reference to the river valley silt but to their actual country. While they called lighter-skinned Asian and Libyan foes desretyw.
Of course, the Egyptians themselves were not literally 'black' in color and no human being is! (not even Sudanese like Dinka, but they are close) They called themselves 'black' as a reference to their dark skin and because they saw the color as divine. Hence their ancestral god Ausar (Osiris) is known as Kem-Wer literally 'Great Black'."
Maahes said:
"....Black is a sacred colour. The peoples that were/are truly black as obsidian or onyx were also sacred in ancient times- so much so that we took to describing the peoples as the peoples of the black rock- literally the Egyptian term for the Men of Onyx. Nowhere in Tut's iconography does he describe himself as descendant of anyplace but Egypt. One of the issues here is transliteration. There are probably seventeen different words for Black in old Egyptian. In English we have but one word and it is used ad hoc as a one size fits all definition of Eurocentrics of old."
".... Iman is clearly of the Oryx lineage- the Ta-Seti and Thomosides are of this stock as is Anwar Sadat. Alex Wek is of the Black Rock."
On November 2, Maahes said:
"My family originally came from Somerkot valley between Dahklha and Khargha. About four thousand years ago, a good percentage of our peoples migrated to Upper Egypt proper. We are a matrilinear tribal clan. Land and water are passed down through women only. During the 13th century B.C. our ethnic minority was pushed by military force out of Upper Egypt for a time. Half of us returned to Dahkla and the others migrated south to the strong holds of the Inyotef Ta-Seti who in reaction to Hyksos/ Kushite collusion in the 13th Dynasty-17 dynasty- had taken up permanent residence in a kingdom somewhere in the highlands of Ethiopia probably somewhere near present day Eritrea. "
"...Naturally, the Abysinnian branch of our family remained in fairly close contact with the Western Desert branch from dynastic days through to the Christian era.
One branch of our tribal clan migrated to Siwa. These were largely men only and of the Ma'ahes caste. Anyone familar with Hadendoa tribal clan is looking at the easternmost branch of our people."
Doug M said:
"Maahes Hadendoa is another name for Beja groups along the Nile Valley. Beja, Bisharin, Hadendoa are all names for the same peoples."
On November 3, 2007 Maahes said:
"...It is clear that Queen Tiye should be respected as co-regent and acting sovereign as her husband Amenhotep lies on his deathbed. The fact that Tiye is of Nilotic descent is never a topic in the story- and why should it?"
On November 6, Maahes wrote:
"....Nomadic Peoples of the Black Rock were simply not interested in political machinations of the Egyptians. This doesn't mean there weren't any dark skinned African hereditary chiefs mind you- just no Fur, or Nyala kings in Egypt. The term Pharaoh is a misnomer and is used incorrectly in most instances. The Governmental Body is the Per Aa. There may have been any number of individuals, be they viziers, hereditary princes, royal wives, priestesses or administrators whose ethnic origins would have been referred to as stemming from the black rock."
and later
"...The peoples of the Black Rock are the true blacks. They own the term. Everyone else should just be happy that they have permanent tans if they have them that is. We can't all be as beautiful as the Black Rock.
Khnum made them better than the rest of us. I've gotten over it. Maybe you should too? I'm stuck being whatever my ancestors called themselves. In America i can be Black but i know its like speaking two languages. It can mean one thing in one language and something entirely different in another.
I could never be Black in the definition of the peoples who share the same ancestral wadis and sebkhets and have forever. They don't hate me for it. They have their own incredible history and culture. I can't claim it for my own. No one in my genetic history can claim to have walked back and forth between Chad and Libya since the Holocene. The Peoples of the Black Rock can trace their ancestors footsteps for millenia."
What does the DNA Analysis tell us?
From: Y Chromosome Variation Among the Sudanese 2008,
The Nilotic groups possess the most ancient lineages of A M13, B M60 and also E M78. While the Beja and Copts and other AfroAsiatic Speakers have many lineages including J1 and R1b! Small amounts of A and B Y chromosomes exist with AfroAsiatic speaking Sudanese groups.
BTW, African Men according to a Hammer 2005 .pdf possess A M13 and B M60 at 1.1% and 0.8% respectively.
The people who are the so-called "Nubians" carry 8 different Y chromosome lineages including I, J1. J2 and R1b! ------------------------------------------------- The Ancient Nubians in AE paintings are usually jet Black in color with Negroid features. The modern "Nubians" are mixed.
A and B are the oldest lineages for living men period. The earliest inhabitants of the Nile were the ancestors of the Nilotics. The earliest Egyptians were Nilotic. The Ancient Egyptians called themselves Kememu because they were jet Black in color. The gods of Kemet were deified individuals who actual lived in the remote past. Ausar was a jet Black Nilotic man.
The original old Kingdom pharaohs were very Black with Negroid features. I've seen it in books that I could not scan at the time.
The people of the Oryx, the followers of Set were reddish brown like the modern Somalians and Beja. They made war against the original jet Black Egyptians who followed Ausar. That's what the Ausar/Set story was probably really about. The war is between men over the patrilineages even today. The women were spared. The women were native Africans as well. Auset, Neith and Hetheru lived on.
Consequently, the followers of Set won. The People of the Black Rock - the Nilotic MEN are being hunted and killed even as I write in South Sudan and Darfur. The women are captured for the other side. Even New Kingdom TaSeti pharaohs had jet Black wives. Nothing has changed.
Not only have paintings and statues been altered, but the true physical legacy of the first Kememu is being wiped out without a true understanding of how they fit into the AE framework.
THE NILOTICS ARE THE REAL NUBIANS AND FIRST ANCIENT EGYPTIANS.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
The Shilluk/Chollo had a central gov't and the Luo branched off from them.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
The Dinka have many names that are identical to the ancient Kememu of Kemet. The Nilotes are the original inhabitants of the Nile Valley.
Posted by Israel (Member # 11221) on :
Good information, keep it up! I always wondered if the Nubian people of Sudan/Egypt were related to the Dinka...now I know. What about the Nuba people? Are the Nuba and Nubian people one in the same?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Dinks aren't related to the Nubians you idiot. Dinkas are related to groups like the shilluk, Masaai, Luo, and other "nilotic" groups.
First of all, the 'Nubians' were diverse and consisted of various groups of people.
Second of all, even though we don't know exactly what language the most prominent group from Middle Kingdom times onward-- the Kushites-- spoke, is it not possible they were Nilo-Saharan speakers as well and therefore 'Nilotic'?!! Even today, in northern Sudan the so-called Nubian languages are classified as Nilo-Saharan!
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Dinks aren't related to the Nubians you idiot. Dinkas are related to groups like the shilluk, Masaai, Luo, and other "nilotic" groups.
First of all, the 'Nubians' were diverse and consisted of various groups of people.
Second of all, even though we don't know exactly what language the most prominent group from Middle Kingdom times onward-- the Kushites-- spoke, is it not possible they were Nilo-Saharan speakers as well and therefore 'Nilotic'?!! Even today, in northern Sudan the so-called Nubian languages are classified as Nilo-Saharan!
The Dinkas are not related to the real nubians of Sudan. The have a different way of life, different language, and they look differently. Nubian language is 'classied' as Nilo-Saharan which the Dinka languages are not. The Dinka is related to the Shilluk, Luo, and Masaai.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yes, Dinka ARE related to the ancient Nubians. The Dinka originated in Central Sudan which was part of the Kushite Empire. Exactly what is so different about their way of life?? Dinka are semi-agricultural pastoralists. So were the Kushites. Dinka revered their cattle. So did the Kushites. Yes, the languages of the Dinka and Kushites may be different but they are still closely related! I won't even get into your claim that they "look different" since many Western scholars in the past say that because the Egyptians did not look like Sudanese groups like the Dinka but Kushites did, then Kushites are black but Egyptians are not!
As for the languages of the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, and Masai not being Nilo-Saharan. I suggest you look here, here, here, and here.
Again, the problem as usual is you have no clue as to what you're talking about. Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yes, Dinka ARE related to the ancient Nubians. The Dinka originated in Central Sudan which was part of the Kushite Empire. Exactly what is so different about their way of life?? Dinka are semi-agricultural pastoralists. So were the Kushites. Dinka revered their cattle. So did the Kushites. Yes, the languages of the Dinka and Kushites may be different but they are still closely related! I won't even get into your claim that they "look different" since many Western scholars in the past say that because the Egyptians did not look like Sudanese groups like the Dinka but Kushites did, then Kushites are black but Egyptians are not!
As for the languages of the Dinka, Shilluk, Luo, and Masai not being Nilo-Saharan. I suggest you look here, here, here, and here.
Again, the problem as usual is you have no clue as to what you're talking about.
Dinkas aren't related to the real Nubians. The dinka language and that of the Luo, Shilluk, and Masaai are not Nilo-Saharan languages. The Dinka people were actually captives and slaves in AE. The same way the Dinka people live today is the same way they always lived.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Hey Betty-boot, I just provided you links showing that the languages of the Dinka as well as Luo, Shilluk, and Masaai ARE Nilo-Saharan!! So why not admit you're wrong unless you can provide linguistic evidence to the contrary! Also, what evidence do you have of ancient Egyptians enslaving Dinka??! Sounds like another empty claim you pulled out of your toosh. Ironically, the Egyptians did make slaves out of some of their Nubian enemies so perhaps there is some truth to your claim, but obviously a contradiction if you say the Dinka are not even related to Nubians when they obviously are! Also, how exactly did the Dinka live 'black then' as opposed to now?? Archaeology shows the cattle culture of the Dinka stretches back to Neolithic times so what is your claim??
It seems to me, the Dinka are just another African people that is the focus of your anti-African ignorance and hatred. Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
The Dinkas aren't related to the real nubians and the Dinka has nothing to do with AE unless they were slaves. The Nubians are so beautiful with nice soft hair and smooth soft skin and the Dinkas look like monsters with rugged thick skin and short nappy hair and they wear no clothes.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Wow I am right then! It is your insecure hatred of blacks and not logic that drives you! Which is why you are unable to refute a word I said! Keep dreaming Bettyboob.
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: The Dinkas aren't related to the real nubians and the Dinka has nothing to do with AE unless they were slaves. The Nubians are so beautiful with nice soft hair and smooth soft skin and the Dinkas look like monsters with rugged thick skin and short nappy hair and they wear no clothes.
Many Nubians today have hair like that and light skin due to Arabic admixture. The original Nubians before the 1400s were 100% black and looked just like the Dinka. If you look at the paintings the Egyptians made of the original pure blooded Nubians you would see that they are depicted as being pitch black in complexion as shown below. Dumb bitch.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: The Dinkas aren't related to the real nubians and the Dinka has nothing to do with AE unless they were slaves. The Nubians are so beautiful with nice soft hair and smooth soft skin and the Dinkas look like monsters with rugged thick skin and short nappy hair and they wear no clothes.
Many Nubians today have hair like that and light skin due to Arabic admixture. The original Nubians before the 1400s were 100% black and looked just like the Dinka. If you look at the paintings the Egyptians made of the original pure blooded Nubians you would see that they are depicted as being pitch black in complexion as shown below. Dumb bitch.
Those are pictures of real NUBIANS they are not Dinkas. Just because the DINKAS are pure black doesn't mean they are the people depicted in the ancient Egyptian drawings. The dinka lived the same exact way they live today during the ancient egyptian and nubian era. They didn't wear clothes then and they don't wear clothes now. You should know that those people aren't Dinkas because Dinkas don't wear the feature in their hair.
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
Where did I say the Dinka are/were Nubians? I said the Nubians looked like the Dinka in the pre-1400s years. Can't you comprehend, twerp?
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
I am black, you fucking idiot. You're the only crazy troll here on this forum.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: Where did I say the Dinka are/were Nubians? I said the Nubians looked like the Dinka in the pre-1400s years. Can't you comprehend, twerp?
I told you just because the Dinkas are pitch black and the Nubians are pitch black doesn't mean they look alike. They look nothing alike. I'm not talking about mixed nubians. I'm talking about pure pitch black nubians of today look nothing like Dinkas. Their skin is different; their features are different; their body type is different their way of life is different; and I made an error in my last post to you. I meant to say that the drawings show 'FEATHERS' in their hair which is more common amongst Cushitic groups.
Posted by Wally (Member # 2936) on :
Dinka are not ugly at all either. This model has beautiful features and great skin.
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
The Dinka do not have "rugged thick skin", they actually have the smoothest skin in Sudan. The Dinka speak a Nilo-Saharan language, albeit it's more closely related to the Luo/Shilluck, Nuer and Masai languages.
Posted by Henu (Member # 13490) on :
Thread cleaned up a little. Argumentative idiots, take Wally's advice.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: ....please go here....
Henu wrote: ---------------------------------- Thread cleaned up a little. ----------------------------------
Henu if you are so intent on cleaning up this thread how come you kept the below from Bettyboo in this thread?
Bettyboo wrote: ----------------------------------- The Dinkas aren't related to the real nubians and the Dinka has nothing to do with AE unless they were slaves. The Nubians are so beautiful with nice soft hair and smooth soft skin and the Dinkas look like monsters with rugged thick skin and short nappy hair and they wear no clothes. -----------------------------------
If you really wanted to clean up the thread you would have removed Bettyboo's post.
Why is it still there Henu?
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
I do not know why a foreigner would so strenuously deny the connection between Sudanese populations?
The Dinka speak a Nilo-Saharan language, they're our brothers.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: Dinka are not ugly at all either. This model has beautiful features and great skin.
That's ONE photo and it's airbrushed. That girl doesn't even look Dinka since the dinkas have jet black skin. The dinkas are the ugliest people on the planet.
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
Well, she is Dinka. Her name is Clara Aker Benjamin. Dinka have brownish-black skin, dummy. They can appear to have a very deep dark brown skin. And when they're far away they look jet black. Alek Wek, the supermodel is definitely Dinka. No one can say she isn't because everyone knows it's a fact. Take a look at her skin and you can clearly see that it is a very deep dark brown hue. I guess you think these pics are airbrushed.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Folks that bug eyed, fly infested Henu deleted a response I made earlier in this thread.
Henu likes to hang around all of those pitiful race loon forums where white racists like to fantasize they are Ancient Egyptians.
Henu actually believes in their mythology.
This is why he allows posts that are meant to denigrate African Americans and other Africans to stay while posts "he" deems as not uplifting to whites and other groups are to be deleted.
Just look at this thread and you can see for yourself.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Hey Bettyboo/Ebony Allen aka white boy who has an erection that has pink blisters on it,
Why is it by the time white women are in their early to mid 20s they have that heavy thick baggy ass skin that looks like an old man's scrotum?
HAHAHAHAHAHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
I'd kill to have skin like Alek and Clara.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Ebony Allen,
You would also like to have a penis free of pink blisters and wrinkly white skin.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHA!!!!
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: Well, she is Dinka. Her name is Clara Aker Benjamin. Dinka have brownish-black skin, dummy. They can appear to have a very deep dark brown skin. And when they're far away they look jet black. Alek Wek, the supermodel is definitely Dinka. No one can say she isn't because everyone knows it's a fact. Take a look at her skin and you can clearly see that it is a very deep dark brown hue. I guess you think these pics are airbrushed.
I'm familiar with this ugly model and she is so ugly. Those dinka people are jet black and those photos are all airbrushed and photoshop. They do a lot to photos after developing them. They can even make you appear lighter than what you actually are. They do it to black women all the time even with the blackest ones like those two black models you posted. That girl skin is the color of coal like all the dinka people.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: I'd kill to have skin like Alek and Clara.
If you are an African then you probably already have their skin. That's probably why you are being so defensive of it.
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
I'm African American for your fucking information. And jet black skin is gorgeous.
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
Man Ebony that Clara really has some sweet lips. Thanks for posting such a beautiful woman.
Peace
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Betty Boo, said:I'm familiar with this ugly model and she is so ugly. Those dinka people are jet black and those photos are all airbrushed...
AS Argyle would say,look here people here is another example of a mentally beat down AA. repeating what your white masters thought you...brawaaaahhhh....something like that.
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
Bettyboo:
You seem to embody a level of hatred toward the Dinka people, why?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
If she is indeed black or AA...she has a bad case of selfloathing...It's not just Dinka she hates is all or most things African..esp. Dark-skinned types..with tightly curled hair and ohh those West Africans...special hate goes out to Nigerians.
She beleives Africans are berift of what she calles "noble" civilizations..exception being Kemet,Kush,Axum.
Dispite being shown numorus other African acheivements...she readely dismissed them out of hand...and go on to spew racist nonsense...can you say........ TROLL!!!
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: Ebony Allen
Man Ebony that Clara really has some sweet lips. Thanks for posting such a beautiful woman.
Peace
You're welcome.
Posted by TormentedSoul88 (Member # 6729) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
Don't mean to piss anyone off or burst anyone's bubble... but... what exactly is hot about her (besides the tropical limb props and her glowing colour)
Please don't attack me like a pack of dogs as I am only stating my opinion. I'd have to agree with Bettyboo in this instance that she's not hot. Not saying she's ugly, but I don't find her appealing, anymore than say a lanky flat-chested flat-ass white chick.
There a particular pic of an African lady who blogs... her profile pic for the blog...crickey, now that's a hot sexy sweaty Afro thick-mama Posted by TormentedSoul88 (Member # 6729) on :
Yeeeeeeees!
I'll do anything for this lady...
Posted by TormentedSoul88 (Member # 6729) on :
Posted by TormentedSoul88 (Member # 6729) on :
^^ You can just imagine how much fun that would be can't you. Don't lie. Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
Wow. And the first thing you do is come and here and post pics of a high yella "black" Melyssa Ford who's clearly mixed. Sorry. Mixed race chicks aren't black.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Bettyboo/Ebony Allen why do white women set the all time purchases of wrinkle removal creams to an all time high?
And they do it by the age of 25 no less.
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaahaha : )
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
You'll have to ask a white woman that. I'm not white.
Posted by Shady Aftermath (Member # 14754) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: Wow. And the first thing you do is come and here and post pics of a high yella "black" Melyssa Ford who's clearly mixed. Sorry. Mixed race chicks aren't black.
Posted by Shady Aftermath (Member # 14754) on :
Phew...had to catch my breath after laughing so hard there. Anyway, you're wrong Ebony Allen, mixed race chicks are black as long as they're coloured you don't have to be African to be black.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
sudaniya u know of Baggara right and Dongolawi so who is Jenub
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: sudaniya u know of Baggara right and Dongolawi so who is Jenub
"Janub" is usually used to refer to the southern Sudanese, whilst "Jallaba" is in reference to my people.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
Why would Janub refer to all southern sudanese and jallaba are in which part of sudan.
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shady Aftermath: Phew...had to catch my breath after laughing so hard there. Anyway, you're wrong Ebony Allen, mixed race chicks are black as long as they're coloured you don't have to be African to be black.
No, they are not. Mulatto girls are half black only and half white.
Posted by Chrome-Soul (Member # 16889) on :
^ If you put cream into coffee does it cease to be coffee? Or is it simply coffee with a more creamy flavor?
Posted by Shady Aftermath (Member # 14754) on :
^ Exactly. I like my coffee very creamy Posted by Chrome-Soul (Member # 16889) on :
^ Lmao im not picky. Extra cream no cream, double cinnamon whatever. I'll drink it all.
Posted by Shady Aftermath (Member # 14754) on :
^ Latte all day every day Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
In Northeast Africa we drink Coffee with no Cream.
Posted by Shady Aftermath (Member # 14754) on :
^ Yes that's good too as long as you add some brown Sugar.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
Who drinks coffee with no sugar
Posted by Shady Aftermath (Member # 14754) on :
^ Some people do actually.
Posted by Bettyboo (Member # 12987) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: I'm African American for your fucking information. And jet black skin is gorgeous.
Jet Black skin is only gorgeous if it is smooth and fine. If it is thick and rugged and the person has thick broad harsh features then it is not fine.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
Neither is pale white skin that is not fine and smooth with red spots and bumbs all over it and peeling pale white skin hanging off.
So what is your point Bettyboo
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: I'm African American for your fucking information. And jet black skin is gorgeous.
Jet Black skin is only gorgeous if it is smooth and fine. If it is thick and rugged and the person has thick broad harsh features then it is not fine.
The Dinka do not have "thick and rugged" skin for God's sake.
Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
quote:Originally posted by AswaniAswad: Why would Janub refer to all southern sudanese and jallaba are in which part of sudan.
"Janub" just means south just as shimal means north, and "Jallaba" is what the northern tradesmen working in the south were colloqually known as.
That's why we have "Janub" darfur, or southern Darfur; southerners have taken the term as a reference to themselves exlusively.
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
I know Janub means south and Shimal is North but i have never heard a sudani call any other sudani Shimal.
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian:
What does the DNA Analysis tell us?
From: Y Chromosome Variation Among the Sudanese 2008,
The Nilotic groups possess the most ancient lineages of A M13, B M60 and also E M78. While the Beja and Copts and other AfroAsiatic Speakers have many lineages including J1 and R1b! Small amounts of A and B Y chromosomes exist with AfroAsiatic speaking Sudanese groups.
BTW, African Men according to a Hammer 2005 .pdf possess A M13 and B M60 at 1.1% and 0.8% respectively.
The people who are the so-called "Nubians" carry 8 different Y chromosome lineages including I, J1. J2 and R1b! ------------------------------------------------- The Ancient Nubians in AE paintings are usually jet Black in color with Negroid features. The modern "Nubians" are mixed.
A and B are the oldest lineages for living men period. The earliest inhabitants of the Nile were the ancestors of the Nilotics. The earliest Egyptians were Nilotic . The Ancient Egyptians called themselves Kememu because they were jet Black in color. The gods of Kemet were deified individuals who actual lived in the remote past. usar was a jet Black Nilotic man. A
The original old Kingdom pharaohs were very Black with Negroid features. I've seen it in books that I could not scan at the time.
The people of the Oryx, the followers of Set were reddish brown like the modern Somalians and Beja . They made war against the original jet Black Egyptians who followed Ausar. That's what the Ausar/Set story was probably really about. The war is between men over the patrilineages even today. The women were spared. The women were native Africans as well. Auset, Neith and Hetheru lived on.
Consequently, the followers of Set won. The People of the Black Rock - the Nilotic MEN are being hunted and killed even as I write in South Sudan and Darfur. The women are captured for the other side. Even New Kingdom TaSeti pharaohs had jet Black wives. Nothing has changed.
Not only have paintings and statues been altered, but the true physical legacy of the first Kememu is being wiped out without a true understanding of how they fit into the AE framework.
THE NILOTICS ARE THE REAL NUBIANS AND FIRST ANCIENT EGYPTIANS.
^ This. Forth coming evidence proves some of this is very true. The situation in the Nile Valley as far as peopling is very similar to many other areas around the world. In Europe E-M78, and G2a were some of the earliest lineages in Western Europe, no ancient sample of R1b1b exists....but it was most definitely the most successful late comer. The new data from Otzi the Ice man is more Southern European than even modern Southern Europeans...the people in that area are quite different.
In East Asia many of the lineages found in the south Haplogroups K, M, P, S etc are the earliest lineages. Haplogroup O, typical if most East Asians today is the most successful late comer to East Asia. This is clearly the case with YAP lineages (Haplogroup D) that were in Asia prior to the existence of any of these other lineages. This is also the case of Maternal lineage D being an the American founder followed by A, B, C, and X which are more numerous today.
And of course in much of Sub Saharan Africa below the equator E1b1a / E-m2 lineages predominate in areas where they may not have been present prior to expansion for areas further North. And in North West Africa we have early E1a and A1a lineages replace by an successful E-M81 founder effect.
In Modern Egypt and Sudan The main lineages for the most part are A, B, E and J. Haplogroup J seems to be the mos recent and very successful latecomer , particularly in ALL of Egypt. Then we have E lineages, mainly E-M78 and E-M35. That leaves us with A and B lineages which are likely the earliest.
Looking at the Nile Valley today there is no reason to believe that those Earliest inhabitants would NOT have a Genetic profile that is Predominantly A and/or B.....and to a lesser extent E. For those that TRULY look at the Egyptians as migrants from "The South" or Egyptian culture being a "Sudanese Transplant".............taking a look at Sudanese Y profiles which group would we think would parallel the first Egyptians?
Would it not be the Dinka, Shillk, Nuer and Nuba? When looking at 18th Dynasty results did they resemble the Dinka, Shillk, Nuer and Nuba? Or where they more like E-M78 carriers : Oromo, Beja?
When analyzing the idea of Egyptians have origins in "The South" - OTHER THAN PHYSICAL REMAINS, this is stated because those ancestors are still in the South and somewhat intact. In reality those people that are in "The South" likely come FROM the Sahara. It is better then to replace Egyptians "Southern" connections to "Saharan" Connections, those of which who's ancestors now live in the Upper Nile Valley... or Chad, Niger etc. This is not "Admixture", this is a component of the Egyptian mixing pot.
So when looking at Predynastics who is who? Are we looking at the "Erythreans" or the Nilo-Saharans? Notice how far north the "unknown Nilo-Saharan languages on the Nile" are , You can somewhat get a hint but this is not conclusive. Compare the cluster of Naqada, Badari, and A-Group Nubians. Then compare them to Upper and Lower Nile groups. Next compare them with Modern populations. Nagada/Tigre is somewhat telling with the Tigre inhabiting the red sea as "Erythreans". Again this is not conclusive though.
The cultural aspect, particularly that which deals with Cattle has been kept intact nearly in its entirety with Upper Nile Nilo-Saharan speakers:
Posted by Oshun (Member # 19740) on :
Dinka ugly?
naaah
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
Astenb, very nice post.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: Dinka ugly?
naaah
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
Lets not bump the thread talking about the Beauty of Nilotic Queens. That was discussed 3 years ago. Back on track take a look at this familiar image of "Nubians"
What is the difference between the Brownskinned and the Black Skinned "Nubian". How can they be compared to their contemporaries in the region today? Is it not possible and likely that Dark type is more of a Nilotic type whose descendants now inhabit the Upper Nile : Ie Dinka?
Lets move to Egypt:
Same thing right? We also have Nilotic type Egyptians. There is no reason to believe that their cant be the same type people in the Entire valley. There was no magic cutoff point. This is the old kingdom though. What you notice is in Egyptian reliefs this Nilotic type of Egyptian disappears through time.
We have seen these images before but the interpretation is new. Here is another interpretation : Black Land / KMT. What is the point of Naming a region, based on your Skin color of "Black"...Pitch black/Coal Black even, when in fact your skin is brown? Now who in the Nile Valley has a skin tone that approximates to Coal Black?
Well if these people where there, where did they go? I dont know but this situation is similar to what Keita found when he speaks of the Northern Type having Predominance over the Southern Type over time. Its quite possible certain regions were just more successful.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
What I have not seen spoken about and what I find odd is that people have not talked about the red clay/ that Dinka, Nuba and Massai among other groups put all over their bodies. That could account for the red hue of the figures on the wall reliefs.
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
^ This is true. Do you know if the Dinka do this from head to toe? I know their are times when it is used to cover the face.
I am sure the Nuba do use this though. Even if this is the case, I am sure that some of these individuals are just the same color is many Egyptians.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
can't find the documentary i saw long ago with a Dinka covered head to toe in red, but if I find it I will post it.
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
Look forward to it.
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
quote:Originally posted by Goredema: A new angle to the debate on origins. Bible apparently gives same location of origin:
Science Meets The Bible by Gert Muller, Pomegranate Publications, 2011
Science teaches that modern humans originated in East Africa and spread from there to the rest of the world. The Bible teaches that humans originated in the Garden of Eden and spread from there to the rest of the world. It is almost universally assumed that, in terms of location of origins, these versions are in conflict. For the first time a book challenges this assumption by referring to the relevant verses of Genesis which give the names of the lands just outside Eden and the rivers flowing through them. The Table of the Nations in Genesis is then called upon to confirm the location of these lands, two of which are in the neighbourhood of Cush in East Africa. The results are confirmed by extra-Biblical Jewish tradition such as the Book of Jubilees and the Book of Enoch.
They are also confirmed, surprisingly, by Egyptian sacred texts such as the Book of the Dead, the Book of AmTuat and the Book of Gates. These books locate the Egyptian afterlife paradise in the Tuat or Netherworld. The geography of the Tuat turns out to be based on the lakes, mountains, mammals and birds of East Africa and not Egypt as generally assumed. Influences are traced, by the author, from Central Sudan and Upper Nubia into Lower Nubia and then Upper Egypt during the predynastic brought by the Followers of Horus. Egyptian kingship and the white crown are amongst the influences that the author postulates as coming from Central Sudan.
INfo from another thread. Just picked up that book too.
Take note :
quote: Influences are traced, by the author, from Central Sudan and Upper Nubia into Lower Nubia and then Upper Egypt during the predynastic brought by the Followers of Horus. Egyptian kingship and the white crown are amongst the influences that the author postulates as coming from Central Sudan.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ The difference in complexions painted in tomb murals may be just an artistic convention, for there are many examples of Egyptians painted in alternating light and dark colors both among males as well as females.
It is true many Nilotic peoples have a custom of painting themselves with red ochre which interestingly is also practiced by many pastoralist Bantu groups in other parts of Africa like the Himba of Namibia. Nilotic people also use ochre to color their hair red and even cow urine to bleach their hair blonde. Both blonde and red colored haired Nubians are also displayed on tomb murals.
Although I disagree with Red,White,Blue,Christian's claims of genetic lineages corresponding to folk legends, I do agree with astenb that the Nilotic folk seem to have had large impact and influence on neighboring African peoples especially Afrasian speakers. This can be seen in linguistics as he showed in Nilotic influence in Egyptian language but it doesn't stop there. The leopard skins of the priests, the cattle rituals and bull symbolism of the kings, etc. I am beginning to agree with Truth's hypothesis that advanced culture and kingdom building was spurred on by the domestication of cattle by early Nilo-Saharans. Even the map showing the dispersal of early Nilotic speakers seem to correlate with the development of civilizations in the regions of dispersal from the western Sahel to the Great Lakes region.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:^ The difference in complexions painted in tomb murals may be just an artistic convention
Yes. No doubt about it. Though I also believe indigenous pre-Berber North Africans were starting to disperse into the area during Neolithic times. IMO, they would've had light(er) skin tone, as well as other variations not seen in Neolithic Northeast Africa.
Check your inbox Djehuti
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
True there are artistic conventions but some of these images particularly when Egyptians crossed the far southern Cataracts, depict even the scarification that these Nilotic tribes have. There are also images of the wrestlers.
Anyway, another point of this connection is the shaving of heads of both men and women. Sure we heard they did it to "protect against Lice". In eastern parts of Africa this is a strong cultural aspect from Nilotic influence onto others.
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
^
Although linguistically connected, the migration histories of these Nilotes differ considerably. Shilluk oral tradition remembers that they were led north by their first king and culture hero, Nyakang. Around 1500 they arrived at their present location at the junction of the Sobat and Nile Rivers from a previous southern homeland remembered as "Dimo." The Anyuak, closely related to the Shilluk, also trace their origin to the "country of Dimo" southeast of their present homeland. They were led north by a powerful chief, Gila, a brother of the Shilluk king Nyakang. A quarrel led to a split between the Shilluk and Anyuak prior to Nyakang’s arrival at the present-day Shilluk homeland on the White Nile, during which the Anyuak migrated east. Gila’s grandchild Cuwai became their first king. The Dinka claim an ancient homeland in northern Sudan. This is supported by linguistic data which shows loanwords from the classical language of Nubia, Nobiin, suggesting a cultural and religious connection with the Nubian kingdom of Alwa (300-1300). The Dinka migrated into southern Sudan (c. 1300-1600) along the eastern bank of the Nile as far as Bor, and then forged across the river three hundred miles northwest. At this juncture they had penetrated into the swamps of the southern Sudan and fully surrounded the Nuer. The Nuer claim they originated from a barren waterless country northwest of their present homeland in a region they identify as "Kwer-Kwong." It is remembered that a leader, Gau, married Kwong giving birth to Gaa who became the most important Nuer leader, the Land Chief, acquiring the title of "Chief of the Leopard Skin." Some scholars suggest that the Nuer were formerly part of the mosaic of Luo peoples present in Southern Sudan prior to the Dinka arrival.
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: Dinka are not ugly at all either. This model has beautiful features and great skin.
That's ONE photo and it's airbrushed. That girl doesn't even look Dinka since the dinkas have jet black skin. The dinkas are the ugliest people on the planet.
HEY you Bettypoop, you are obviously a dumb ignorant bitch. You have no right to call people ugly. Have you ever heard the wise words of the legend Tupac Shakur "the darker the flesh, the deeper the roots"? huh? well let me tell you something. Dinka, Nuer, Shilluk, Nuba, Oromo, Beja, Luo, Massai (Nilotes) are all descendants of the ancient Nubians or the Cushites as the bible calls them. How do I know this? I'm dinka myself and I have an open mind, I've been taught my history. Free your mind from mental slavery and stop thinking light skin is the beauty of Africa. Dark Skin is the symbol Africa, people like you are why Nikki Minaj is destroying little black girls.
Posted by Elite Diasporan (Member # 22000) on :
I know this is an old ass thread but I recently been having conversations about this subject with others on another site. And it has been complex and confusion. I know the "Nubians" were not a REAL GROUP instead a diverse array of people who lived South of Egypt. I know some Nubians were Nilo-Saharan speakers while others were Affo-Asiatic.
But I personally believe the Kushites(tho they did absorb other groups) would have been Nilotic type group(that maybe extinct especially their language). I mean they came from Central Sudan which most Nilotic speakers like the Dinka come from.
I think over time with absorbing other groups into the empire the Kushite language shifted more "Afro-Asiatic" and their genetics too. By the time of the late period of the Kushite Kingdom(time of the Candance Queens), I believe the Kushites would have absorbed a lot of Afro-Asiatic and other Nilo-Saharan genetic influence.
But the Egyptians VERY early on depicted the Kushites as rather Nilotic looking. This is just my personal 2 cents.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
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as I am only stating my opinion. I'd have to agree with Bettyboo in this instance that she's not hot. Not saying she's ugly, but I don't find her appealing, anymore than say a lanky flat-chested flat-ass white chick. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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