We were debating Evolution. I tried to explain to the gentleman that early Evolutionists believed that Blacks were at the lower end of human Evolution. And so, those who take hold to this science are indirectly subscribing to the idea that blacks are lesser evolved than non-blacks. He felt that that was untrue and that, based on evolution, all races descend from a common origin and are on equal footing, evolution wise. At that point, I showed him a reconstruction of Homo-erectus, just to illustrate how proponents of the science view blacks. Here is the depiction:
He counters by charging me with being a racist and misrepresenting the reconstruction of, what he believes to be, an ape. I told him that the reconstruction is given subtle Negro traits to tacitly suggest that the Negro has the strongest biological connection to Homo-erectus, a quasi- or ape-man.
Okay, what is your opinion? Was this person right to accuse me of being racist or was I correct to point out the racial element in the science of Evolution?
P.S., please no sophomoric replies. This topic is important to me because the person in question is a dear friend of mine, and the contention has taken a toll on our friendship.
Posted by Khufu (Member # 17461) on :
Evolution is nothing more than an urban myth.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Damn, not only are YOU stupid, you have stupid friends too!
Birds of a feather, flock together!
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
^Mike, eat shyt and die already.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
^^Confirmed Liar, Gigantic fool burn in your hell!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I would call it sheep-like rather than racist
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: We were debating Evolution. I tried to explain to the gentleman that early Evolutionists believed that Blacks were at the lower end of human Evolution. And so, those who take hold to this science are indirectly subscribing to the idea that blacks are lesser evolved than non-blacks. He felt that that was untrue and that, based on evolution, all races descend from a common origin and are on equal footing, evolution wise. At that point, I showed him a reconstruction of Homo-erectus, just to illustrate how proponents of the science view blacks. Here is the depiction:
He counters by charging me with being a racist and misrepresenting the reconstruction of, what he believes to be, an ape. I told him that the reconstruction is given subtle Negro traits to tacitly suggest that the Negro has the strongest biological connection to Homo-erectus, a quasi- or ape-man.
Okay, what is your opinion? Was this person right to accuse me of being racist or was I correct to point out the racial element in the science of Evolution?
P.S., please no sophomoric replies. This topic is important to me because the person in question is a dear friend of mine, and the contention has taken a toll on our friendship.
Well if this is a serious comment then explain to his the history of Darwin and Eugenics.
Posted by Gigantic (Member # 17311) on :
^Yes, this is a serious comment. Thank you for your response.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: ^Yes, this is a serious comment. Thank you for your response.
Cool man, I posted some vids that showed Darwins cousin or brother was the mastermind of Eurgenics which specfically targeted blacks and labeld us as "feeble minded" etc. Eugenics was also favored by Nazi's etc. Ill try to find em, if your boy is black it should be a sobering series of videos.
I value your opinion. You seem very level headed. I can appreciate that. In your opinion, do you think the reconstruction of Homo-erectus is purposely made to look Negro?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I would call it sheep-like rather than racist
Posted by Gigantic (Member # 17311) on :
thanks.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Cool man, I posted some vids that showed Darwins cousin or brother was the mastermind of Eurgenics which specfically targeted blacks and labeld us as "feeble minded" etc. Eugenics was also favored by Nazi's etc. Ill try to find em, if your boy is black it should be a sobering series of videos.
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: We were debating Evolution. I tried to explain to the gentleman that early Evolutionists believed that Blacks were at the lower end of human Evolution. And so, those who take hold to this science are indirectly subscribing to the idea that blacks are lesser evolved than non-blacks. He felt that that was untrue and that, based on evolution, all races descend from a common origin and are on equal footing, evolution wise. At that point, I showed him a reconstruction of Homo-erectus, just to illustrate how proponents of the science view blacks. Here is the depiction:
He counters by charging me with being a racist and misrepresenting the reconstruction of, what he believes to be, an ape. I told him that the reconstruction is given subtle Negro traits to tacitly suggest that the Negro has the strongest biological connection to Homo-erectus, a quasi- or ape-man.
Okay, what is your opinion? Was this person right to accuse me of being racist or was I correct to point out the racial element in the science of Evolution?
P.S., please no sophomoric replies. This topic is important to me because the person in question is a dear friend of mine, and the contention has taken a toll on our friendship.
So This is what Black Haitians Look Like? You sure are some ugly motherfuckers!
Only the real, is this you Gigantic?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: I value your opinion. You seem very level headed. I can appreciate that. In your opinion, do you think the reconstruction of Homo-erectus is purposely made to look Negro?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I would call it sheep-like rather than racist
It cannot be determined if you may or may not have have been racist because you have not indicated whether or not you were in agreement with the views of the early evolutionists you mentioned.
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
MK believes the same thing and he is a black man. Read over his post, he is always saying whites evolve from blacks, except he uses different terminology.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Poor, sweet, Of_Gold. Tsk-Tsk-Tsk When I peeped your name responding to an AE topic, I just KNEW it had to be about ME. Why do you insist on teasing and torturing me so? I have an Erectus, but sorry, no Homo.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
He! He! He!
checking his posts. Looks like he is a SHE.
Jungle fever?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
@ MK. Speaking about melanin.
I came across this: Melanin is a natural substance that gives color (pigment) to hair, skin, and the iris of the eye. Melanin also helps protect the skin from the sun.
If melanin is present in the urine, malignant melanoma is suspected.
Apparently the liver is "removing" melanin from these people.
I am thinking with skin cancer victims. The body is totally rejecting Melanin. Why would the body do that?
Thoughts or info?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Just got back from the islands. Saw that I have slight sun burn. Skin is peeling slightly on my back. Happened several times in the past.
I am wondering. What is the percentage of black people that get sun-burn in the temperate vs the tropics. In other word: Percentage of black people getting sun burn in the tropics vs the temperate regions.
Strange things is I am not light skin.
Posted by Gigantic (Member # 17311) on :
Does the reconstruction look any bit African to you Lioness?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: It cannot be determined if you may or may not have have been racist because you have not indicated whether or not you were in agreement with the views of the early evolutionists you mentioned.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ MK. Speaking about melanin.
I came across this: Melanin is a natural substance that gives color (pigment) to hair, skin, and the iris of the eye. Melanin also helps protect the skin from the sun.
If melanin is present in the urine, malignant melanoma is suspected.
Apparently the liver is "removing" melanin from these people.
I am thinking with skin cancer victims. The body is totally rejecting Melanin. Why would the body do that?
Thoughts or info?
That's very interesting.
I suspect that when Melanoma occurs in whites, they lack the basic immunity protection that is active in blacks to repair the damaged Melanocytes which have been invaded by the spreading cancer cells. Once irreparably damaged the Melanocytes most likely then leak off whatever melanin they contained which is then ejected through the waste system. Melanocytes are Neural-like containers which manufacture and temporarily store melanin.
Posted by Gigantic (Member # 17311) on :
I went to Florida for the summer as a kid and I got sun burn. Back, hands and face peeled. I am dark skin, btw.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Just got from the islands. Saw that I have slight sun burn. Skin is peeling slightly on my back. Happened several times in the past.
I am wondering. What is the percentage of black people that get sun-burn in the temperate vs the tropics. In other word: Percentage of black people getting sun burn in the tropics vs the temperate regions.
Strange things is I am not light skin.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Yes, blacks can sun burn. Once in Panama, where the temp gets up to 110 degrees daily, I found myself with sun burn. The difference between blacks and whites is; blacks have functioning immunity systems. As soon as a black gets sun burnt, his/her immunity system kicks into gear and begins the process of repairing the damaged skin and melanocytes. This is why Melanoma is not a black disease and whites develop Melanoma where ever they were previous sun burn; The Immunity system, or the compromised or lack of an immunity system.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Building on RAHs comment. Why would HE get it IN Florida and NOT where he currently lives which I assume is north of Florida.
As you know it is not temperature related but UV.
It is as if he is "safe" in the north but at risk in the south. Obviously some people have a pre-disposition for sun burn. . .even black people. And it is a no brainer that white skin should be running scared of the sun.
Why would RAH get sunburn IN Florida? The kicker is IF he "lived" Florida will he be like a tomatoe everyday. LOL!
In other words does the body somehow adjust and his trip to Florida was a shock to the system ie sun burn.
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Poor, sweet, Of_Gold. Tsk-Tsk-Tsk When I peeped your name responding to an AE topic, I just KNEW it had to be about ME. Why do you insist on teasing and torturing me so? I have an Erectus, but sorry, no Homo.
aaah MK, you were looking for me, I'm touched. Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
To be quite objective the "race" that has retained phenotypical traits that correlate most with those of early Homo Sapiens is the East Asian. Just consider all its traits--from the chimp-like form of its hair, the structure of its eyes[again chimp-like], its realtively short lower extremities, its prognathism, flatness of derriere, etc.
But all that is moot given that a subspecies may retain a trait for thousands of years that another subspecies may have given up. It's all a fucntion of random genetic drift and accidental mutation.
The fact that most East Asians have bridge-less noses--which led to a boom in the cosmetic surgery insertion of plastic bridges in Japanese noses--has absolutely no connection with how relatively evolved they are.
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
^Are we looking at the same bust? That reconstruction looks more like a Negro than any other race. What drugs do you do, Lamin?
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Lamin:
''But all that is moot given that a subspecies may retain a trait for thousands of years that another subspecies may have given up.''
So we go from speculation to:
''It's all a fucntion of random genetic drift and accidental mutation.''
Random and accidental? Really! Oh wait, the consensus says factual.. with a lot of math thrown in to make it look convincing.
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Building on RAHs comment. Why would HE get it IN Florida and NOT where he currently lives which I assume is north of Florida.
As you know it is not temperature related but UV.
It is as if he is "safe" in the north but at risk in the south. Obviously some people have a pre-disposition for sun burn. . .even black people. And it is a no brainer that white skin should be running scared of the sun.
Why would RAH get sunburn IN Florida? The kicker is IF he "lived" Florida will he be like a tomatoe everyday. LOL!
In other words does the body somehow adjust and his trip to Florida was a shock to the system ie sun burn.
he he he , and they want us to believe they dragged 100 ton stones through the sand of the blazing Sahara, built the pyramids, and worshiped the Sun.
ROFLOL
I was watching "The Deadliest Warrior" and it got to the section where they test the weapons on pig carcases. My African wife says "Damn, thats a PIG?..........Those look like White people........their skin is just like white peoples"
In her country Muslims nor Christans eat Pork, the only place you can find a pig is probably at the Zoo.
Posted by of_gold (Member # 13418) on :
MK!!! Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
I have no problem with bacon. Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
Confirming Truth and Grunman,
I have seen many East Asians who look just like that reconstruction--absent the colour.
I guess you both missed my point about the randomness of evolutionary movement in all living species.
To support my point, consider the varieties of present-day dog lineages--all supposedly derived from some domesticated wolf thousands of years ago. So the question is: which of today's dog breeds are the most evolved? The bull-dog--LOL--or the chow--LOL?
A teaser for you: the Alsatian(or German Shepherd if you are American) resembles the wolf much more than the Boxer or Pit Bull, so do we say that the Alsatian is a relatively unevolved "primitive" while the Pit Bull represents the epitome of evolution?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
In my opinion he looks negroid/mongoloid. His hair looks kinky, what asian has that kind of hair? And why does his hair look so neat? Where's the nappiness? He looks like he just went to the barbershop. On the other hand his lips aren't typical West/Central African broadness but the overall wideness of the mouth opening is. The most Asian looking thing about him is the relatively long distance between his nose and mouth. There can be a lot of crossover in these "racial" features. The shape of his nose also is somewhat Asian.
Homo erectus is an extinct species of hominid
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
In my opinion he looks negroid/mongoloid. His hair looks kinky, what asian has that kind of hair? And why does his hair look so neat? Where's the nappiness? He looks like he just went to the barbershop. On the other hand his lips aren't typical West/Central African broadness but the overall wideness of the mouth opening is. The most Asian looking thing about him is the relatively long distance between his nose and mouth. There can be a lot of crossover in these "racial" features. The shape of his nose also is somewhat Asian.
Homo erectus is an extinct species of hominid
I think Afronut is commenting on the Skin, that the Dark Skin means that black people are closer to "Ape Ancestors" this would be all Dark skinned people including Aboriginals and other Tropical people found in the New World and asia...Then the next would be Asians who have Yellow Brown Skin and Features that sort of match the Nust followd by Europeans who are the pole opposite...
Thus the subtle racism is that whites are more evolved..
Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
Lamin says:
''I guess you both missed my point about the randomness of evolutionary movement in all living species.''
Try built-in, that is , designed variation instead of randomness.
''To support my point, consider the varieties of present-day dog lineages--all supposedly derived from some domesticated wolf thousands of years ago. So the question is: which of today's dog breeds are the most evolved? The bull-dog--LOL--or the chow--LOL?''
Yes, designed and built in variation. So there is no need to consider which is the most evolved. Same for this:
''A teaser for you: the Alsatian(or German Shepherd if you are American) resembles the wolf much more than the Boxer or Pit Bull, so do we say that the Alsatian is a relatively unevolved "primitive" while the Pit Bull represents the epitome of evolution?'' Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Gigantic,
1) is this bust racist?
2) is evolution in general as it is described today a racist theory?
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
In my opinion he looks negroid/mongoloid. His hair looks kinky, what asian has that kind of hair? And why does his hair look so neat? Where's the nappiness? He looks like he just went to the barbershop. On the other hand his lips aren't typical West/Central African broadness but the overall wideness of the mouth opening is. The most Asian looking thing about him is the relatively long distance between his nose and mouth. There can be a lot of crossover in these "racial" features. The shape of his nose also is somewhat Asian
Posted by Gigantic (Member # 17311) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Gigantic,
1) is this bust racist?
I think one who argues that all races are equal can view this as being racist because it suggests that the Negro has more of a direct link to Homo Erectus than any other race.
quote: 2) is evolution in general as it is described today a racist theory?
I believe that the way it is taught or the language that is used to teach the science is cautiously selected, to appease and placate a politically correct society. But the original basic tenants are still there. My position is that it is a racial theory but I guess someone who believes all man are innately equal would view it as racist.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
For orthodox physical anthropologists pigmentation and hair forms are irrlevant. What counts most for them is the stucture of the head, cranium and face. But this won't work if comparisons are made between chimp--supposedly the closest relative to humans--, homo erectus and modern humans. After all, the physiognomies of apes and monkeys vary markedly: some have narrow nasal apertures and structures, others not. Some have orthogonal(90 degree) facial angles and others not.
The point is not the "shape of the laptop" but what kind of OS does it have. I would say that the African OS is just fine given it has been able to achieve on Africa's environments on its own. Think of Africa's independent discoveries such as fire-making, neolithic, mesolithic and neolithic tool making. Add to all that Africa's independent iron age, domestication of animals, agriculture, etc. all crowned by the independent creations of Ancient Egypt, Ancient Sudanic Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, etc.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
this nigga's white, peep the straight hair and complexion
Posted by Gigantic (Member # 17311) on :
^LOL!! Well the original skin color in pre-human human ancestry was white.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by astenb:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Building on RAHs comment. Why would HE get it IN Florida and NOT where he currently lives which I assume is north of Florida.
As you know it is not temperature related but UV.
It is as if he is "safe" in the north but at risk in the south. Obviously some people have a pre-disposition for sun burn. . .even black people. And it is a no brainer that white skin should be running scared of the sun.
Why would RAH get sunburn IN Florida? The kicker is IF he "lived" Florida will he be like a tomatoe everyday. LOL!
In other words does the body somehow adjust and his trip to Florida was a shock to the system ie sun burn.
he he he , and they want us to believe they dragged 100 ton stones through the sand of the blazing Sahara, built the pyramids, and worshiped the Sun.
ROFLOL
I was watching "The Deadliest Warrior" and it got to the section where they test the weapons on pig carcases. My African wife says "Damn, thats a PIG?..........Those look like White people........their skin is just like white peoples"
In her country Muslims nor Christans eat Pork, the only place you can find a pig is probably at the Zoo.
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
In my opinion he looks negroid/mongoloid. His hair looks kinky, what asian has that kind of hair? And why does his hair look so neat? Where's the nappiness? He looks like he just went to the barbershop. On the other hand his lips aren't typical West/Central African broadness but the overall wideness of the mouth opening is. The most Asian looking thing about him is the relatively long distance between his nose and mouth. There can be a lot of crossover in these "racial" features. The shape of his nose also is somewhat Asian
Right
htp
Posted by Europeans Faggotonius (Member # 17517) on :
Check out this weird little monkey and his monkey father with the tail in the front.
By the way this guys name happens to be Gigantic and he is from Haiti. Is this you Op?
That picture of Homo Erectus I believe it is, does not resemble any race at all. It is not even our species. It looks tropically adapted sure, but not like a modern African or in fact any other group of modern people. Perhaps if you gave it a forehead and shrank the face and just generally completely reshaped the head it might resemble some group of living people.
Does any race have an extremely long face with the lips significantly thinner than the distance between the nose and lips? And a mono brow as well?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
I have no idea why lioness is posting a Triceratops skull.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: I have no idea why lioness is posting a Triceratops skull.
To show how earlier animals to some "do not resemble" later animals
yet they existed.
Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: We were debating Evolution. I tried to explain to the gentleman that early Evolutionists believed that Blacks were at the lower end of human Evolution. And so, those who take hold to this science are indirectly subscribing to the idea that blacks are lesser evolved than non-blacks. He felt that that was untrue and that, based on evolution, all races descend from a common origin and are on equal footing, evolution wise. At that point, I showed him a reconstruction of Homo-erectus, just to illustrate how proponents of the science view blacks. Here is the depiction:
He counters by charging me with being a racist and misrepresenting the reconstruction of, what he believes to be, an ape. I told him that the reconstruction is given subtle Negro traits to tacitly suggest that the Negro has the strongest biological connection to Homo-erectus, a quasi- or ape-man.
Okay, what is your opinion? Was this person right to accuse me of being racist or was I correct to point out the racial element in the science of Evolution?
P.S., please no sophomoric replies. This topic is important to me because the person in question is a dear friend of mine, and the contention has taken a toll on our friendship.
I don't understand the hairy part on that so-called replica construction.
Black people aren't hairy on the body nor were the ancestors who lived in hot/ warm areas, it's whites who are hairy due to the fact that they lived in cold areas, where they needed to be protected from the cold.
So I think that so-called replica construction is not properly done at all, because of that and because of the facial structure! It has a bit of a European tweak to it, so to say. Simple put, it another fraud. In which you all want us too conform.
These are the stages of devolution.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by 9th Element:
Black people aren't hairy on the body nor were the ancestors who lived in hot/ warm areas, it's whites who are hairy due to the fact that they lived in cold areas, where they needed to be protected from the cold. [/QUOTE]
Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
quote:Originally posted by TruthAndRights:
quote:Originally posted by astenb:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Building on RAHs comment. Why would HE get it IN Florida and NOT where he currently lives which I assume is north of Florida.
As you know it is not temperature related but UV.
It is as if he is "safe" in the north but at risk in the south. Obviously some people have a pre-disposition for sun burn. . .even black people. And it is a no brainer that white skin should be running scared of the sun.
Why would RAH get sunburn IN Florida? The kicker is IF he "lived" Florida will he be like a tomatoe everyday. LOL!
In other words does the body somehow adjust and his trip to Florida was a shock to the system ie sun burn.
he he he , and they want us to believe they dragged 100 ton stones through the sand of the blazing Sahara, built the pyramids, and worshiped the Sun.
ROFLOL
I was watching "The Deadliest Warrior" and it got to the section where they test the weapons on pig carcases. My African wife says "Damn, thats a PIG?..........Those look like White people........their skin is just like white peoples"
In her country Muslims nor Christans eat Pork, the only place you can find a pig is probably at the Zoo.
Not just that, but......
Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [QB]
quote:Originally posted by 9th Element:
Black people aren't hairy on the body nor were the ancestors who lived in hot/ warm areas, it's whites who are hairy due to the fact that they lived in cold areas, where they needed to be protected from the cold.
Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by 9th Element:
Black people aren't hairy on the body nor were the ancestors who lived in hot/ warm areas, it's whites who are hairy due to the fact that they lived in cold areas, where they needed to be protected from the cold.
[/QUOTE]
As simple as it can get.....
Melanin
(En espaņol: Melanina)
Say: mel-uh-nun
Ever wonder where your skin gets its color? It comes from the magic "m" word: melanin! This natural pigment is what gives your skin its special hue. The darker your skin, the more melanin you have.
Don't Feel the Burn
Even though the sun is hot, it does cool things. It keeps us warm. It makes flowers and plants grow. It even gives us vitamin D so we can better absorb calcium into our bodies for strong bones.
It does all these things by sending down light, which includes invisible ultraviolet (say: ul-trah-vye-uh-lut) rays. These are also sometimes called UV rays. Some ultraviolet rays pass through air and clouds and penetrate the skin. When your skin's been exposed to too many of these rays, you get what's known as a sunburn. Ouch!
Some people get a sunburn faster than others because of their coloring. If you have blond or red hair, light-colored skin, and light-colored eyes, you'll tend to get a sunburn more quickly than someone with dark eyes and skin. That's because you have less melanin (say: meh-luh-nun). Melanin is a chemical in the skin that protects the skin from sun damage by reflecting and absorbing UV rays. People with darker skin have more melanin, but even if you have dark hair, dark eyes, or darker-toned skin, you can still get a sunburn. It will just take a little bit longer.
Sunburns look bad and feel worse. They can cause blisters on your skin. They can keep you inside feeling sore when everyone else is outside having fun. They increase your chance of getting wrinkly when you get older. And worst of all, they can lead to skin cancer when you get older. Because getting wrinkles and getting sick don't happen right away, they can seem like things that could never happen to you. But you still need to be careful.
Posted by 9th Element (Member # 17629) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: ^LOL!! Well the original skin color in pre-human human ancestry was white.
Really? Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by 9th Element:
who are hairy due to the fact that they lived in cold areas, where they needed to be protected from the cold.
As simple as it can get.....
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
Hi, meet Snowflake. Whenever they start with this Ape bull sh*t; show them Snowflake and watch them slink away into their little ignorant corner.
Now I notice that Snowflake has no lips to speak of.
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